Mark Webber kept quiet about shoulder injury

F1 Fanatic round-up

Mark Webber, Red Bull, Suzuka, 2010

Mark Webber, Red Bull, Suzuka, 2010

The story about Mark Webber spotted by Hamish in Sunday’s round-up was widely reported yesterday. More in today’s round-up:

Links

Thoughts on Mark Webber’s shoulder injury and what it means for Red Bull (Daily Telegraph)

As tipped by Hamish here two days ago.

Moss slams Schumacher (Sky Sports)

“He is flawed. He was all over the place. We never saw him at his best when he had a really good driver alongside him. We never saw him in a Ferrari with a driver of similar talent really, so I think that (his number of titles) is misleading.”

Every F1 game on the PC compared (Codemasters forum)

How many of these games have you played?

ScarbsF1 on Twitter

Schumacher not happy with the W01: “The exhaust got so hot that the underside of the car burnt. The F-duct was triggered in parts of the track where it shouldn’t have been.”

Williams via Twitter

Rubens at the factory today for FW33 seat fitting following Autosport Awards last night.

Barrichello's seat fitting

Barrichello's seat fitting

Comment of the day

Lots of readers have been sharing their experience of going to races this year but one fan went to them all:

I guess you could say that I?m in a fairly unique situation in terms of being able to compare all the races.

Despite this though it?s virtually impossible to pick just one stand-out venue, every race has it?s own unique character ?ǣ yes, even Turkey & Valencia!

Some fairly good advice though is to follow the rule of the 3 M?s: Monza, Monaco, Montreal.
Alex

Make sure you have a look at his blog for more.

From the forum

JT19 has started a collection of Quotes of the Year.

Site updates

Check out the new-look interactive charts created by Kareem Shaya which made their debut in this article yesterday:

Happy birthday!

A very happy birthday to Stretch!

On this day in F1

Happy birthday to Robert Kubica who turns 26 today.

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95 comments on Mark Webber kept quiet about shoulder injury

  1. Cynical said on 7th December 2010, 7:42

    I just wish there was more overtaking possible. For the world champ to not have overtaken more than 1 or 2 cars seems like things are distorted now. Formula 1 is very distorted when cars can’t overtake. Moss is right partly schumi had the best car, mansell had the best car when he won world champ, senna/ Prost had the best car etc etc…
    I think the excitement comes when we see drivers excel under difficult conditions. Eg. Senna in the rain in a toleman at Monaco 84(?) in Spa and v mansell in the closest race ever. Even recently. Alonso coming from the rear at Monaco, (and the schumi pass.) Kobayshi’s daring / sometime stupid moves… History us full of drivers overcoming odds and that’s what we want to see more of. Not leafing from the front.

  2. Cynical said on 7th December 2010, 8:07

    Hamilton and webber have probably done the most overtaking. Rosberg has done some impressive OT’s as well late in the year. (not based on stats just from memory of the year) If webber or Hamilton won at least people would recognize their talent for overtaking this year an overcoming the odds( Hamilton not in the best car and webber with his continual injuries)

  3. Schumacher didn’t have the hardest of teammate’s but he did have to fight against cars that were sometimes better than his own, Alonso and Hakkinen. Rubens wasn’t a slouch either just ask last year’s world champion.

    I don’t think Schumacher had to face the length and depth of racing talent that is on the grid today but I don’t think it takes away from his titles it just means he won it in a different way.

    He built teams around him, he moulded everything around him and would test endlessly. He would completely dominate Rubens which as I said earlier JB struggled to do. I don’t think it means he’s any less talented or that hisn titles or worth less just that maybe he used every bit of performance available which is a credit to him. Plus, he did it at two different teams and when previously, Ferrari were nowhere. So I have to respectfully disagree with Sir Stirling. Schumacher is flawed but the number of titles aren’t misleading.

    • judo chop said on 7th December 2010, 11:47

      But wouldn’t Prost, Pique, Senna and Mansell have a lot more titles if they had team mates who’s job was to support them? Prost would have a 7-title haul easily if Lauda and Senna had played second fiddle.

      • “But wouldn’t Prost, Pique, Senna and Mansell have a lot more titles if they had team mates who’s job was to support them? ”

        Arguably but that’s the point I was trying to make. Schumacher didn’t just race he moulded the team around him and dominated his team mates. He went about winning in a different way I feel but that doesn’t take away the worth of his 7 titles.

    • Skett said on 7th December 2010, 12:02

      I’d also like to point out that whilst he did win championships against drivers in quicker cars, there were only a couple. One of them was against Hill (who really was a mediocre driver in a fast car) and the mclarens were so unreliable that they barely finished a race!

      • Icthyes (@icthyes) said on 7th December 2010, 12:28

        I’ve always wondered about this theory and I come to believe it less and less.

        The 1994 Williams had lost all of the electronic gizmos that made it the dominant car of 1992 and 1993. Senna famously complained about the car’s driveability. And if you believe some, Benetton employed all sorts of illegal stuff to win. I can’t remember where I read it, but somewhere it was said that the Benetton was hard to drive, but if you could it would get you places.

        Schumacher won the title in a controversial incident, but also suffered penalties throughout the year that compare only with Hamilton’s 2008 season for drama. Without them, Hill would have been nowhere near Schumacher. Of course, if you believe the Benetton was illegal, then all those points lost to race bans and dodgy decisions (if you thought Valencia was a farce, Silverstone 1994 really takes the biscuit) simply levelled the playing field and the points margin was what it “should” have been.

        Let’s not forget by the time of Senna’s death he had scored no points that year, thanks in part to spinning himself out of his home race in one of the most rookie mistakes I’ve seen footage of Senna making. No “mediocre” driver could have ever won the 1994 Japanese Grand Prix and he didn’t even benefit from cars in front of him crashing or blowing up. Never underestimate the pressure on Hill to be team leader after such a traumatic shock to the team either. Remember the 1997 Hungarian Grand Prix? If you would ask anyone who didn’t know of it to imagine a situation in which such a poor car could almost win, they’d say you’d have to have a Schumacher or Alonso in there to do it, not a Webber or Button level of driver. I’m not saying Hill was as good as that, but no mediocre driver could have done that. He very nearly even got pole for the last race in Jerez too, which would have been very interesting for that year’s championship.

        Anyway. Either Schumacher’s car was good and he should have beat Hill by a far more comfortable margin before the penalties, or it was illegally good and the final tally was an accurate reflection of the drivers’ seasons. In 1995 the cars were fairly equal and Benetton may have even had the slightly better package. He nearly won in 1997 in a car so far behind team orders were the only way to plug even half the gap. In 1998 he challenged to the last against the might of a Newey car in the first year of new rules driven by someone as good as Hakkinen. Come to think of it, I don’t think Schumacher has ever won a championship in an inferior car, but he’s certainly challenged in them. His 3 wins in 1996 were also damn impressive.

        • Tango said on 7th December 2010, 16:54

          “And if you believe some, Benetton employed all sorts of illegal stuff to win”

          He-who-must-not-be-spoken-of-in-F1 was head of Benetton at the time, so there must be some truth in it.

          • David A said on 7th December 2010, 17:18

            Oh yeah, everything Flavio ever touched was illegal.

            There’s no real evidence, so there may be truth in it, but the word “must” can’t be used.

          • Tango said on 7th December 2010, 19:28

            Yes, of course. May is the right word. Apologies, I’m trying my best to get the nuances right but I’m still French !

    • Electrolite said on 7th December 2010, 22:50

      I agree. With regards to Rubens, in Ferrari he was in an environment completely adapted to Schumacher’s liking, and it was his role to support that. He was never going to truly shine at that place.

      I don’t know about anyone else but in the 2010 season he’s impressed me more than ever.

  4. schooner said on 7th December 2010, 12:02

    I can’t imagine the brass at Red Bull being very happy at all with Webber’s revelation. I’m left to wonder if dropping this bomb might wind up costing him his seat.

  5. John H said on 7th December 2010, 14:25

    Not telling Horner was pretty stupid. Surely limiting some of the practice he was doing before the race might have helped and not hindered.

    It’s all very childish isn’t it? Getting a bit tired of all this ‘aussie grit’ rubbish.

    • DaveW said on 7th December 2010, 18:36

      Horner is “disappointed,” and you can just multiply his sentiments by 1000 get a feel for the kind of German being used by Helmut and Dieter to express his views on this.

      I think he had a duty to say something. I’m not doctor but anything you would call a shoulder fracture does not seem like a thing you subject to 4-5 Gs of loading, heavy upper-body exertion, and the risk of a major impact. And so I doubt he got some kind of medical all-clear and kept it to himself.

      If he crashed out due to pain or fatigue in the shoulder or because he was brimmed with cortizone, and hit the wall and then another car (couldn’t have happened, right?) that is RBR’s business. It could also be the other drivers’ business.

      • kateafan said on 8th December 2010, 19:16

        Webber cleared it with the FIA doctor, so he was obviously safe to drive and as Webber keeps stating, it didn’t affect his driving.
        So it’s not an excuse as some are saying.
        It’s also ridiculous to say he’s made up the story.

  6. Peter said on 7th December 2010, 14:28

    Well when you take into consideration the team were just looking for any excuse to back Vettel could you really blame him for keeping it a secret.

    • John H said on 7th December 2010, 14:48

      Seems childish to me. Kind of because you’re not backing me, it’s ok to be unprofessional.

      Horner was definitely a tool, but its no excuse to act like one yourself.

      • Tango said on 7th December 2010, 16:58

        Totaly agree. Biking with four races to go when you are in contention for the championship AND have had a previous bike accident that hindered your previous year effort seems very foolish and unprofessional to me.

        I understand why he wouldn’t want to divulge his injuries once the damage had been done, but if I were his team manager, I’d be furious that a) he went biking, b) he hid his injury from the team.

        • I don’t see any problem with Webber going biking, F1 drivers have to keep fit and they don’t just stay in the gym the whole time, Button competed in a triathlon in the summer break and he would have been on his bike before that quite a few times.

          Webber may have had a serious bike accident previously but how many years had he been cycling and nothing major had happened.

          I think it says a lot about his relationship with Red Bull that he didn’t tell the team about the injury though. If he felt at home in the team and believed they supported him, I would have thought he would have told them.

    • I wouldn’t really want to go to my boss on the final leg of the most important season of his career and say “sorry mate, I’ve smashed in my shoulder”. Better to have that conversations after both titles were clinched :P

  7. Damon said on 7th December 2010, 17:58

    Senna made plenty of mistakes when not under pressure, Prost less so. That doesn’t make them any lesser drivers or better in my eyes. Stats count though and his dominance can’t be denied. Maybe the newer generation e.g alonso, hamilton rosberg etc are better drivers than any of the greats, because let’s face it rosberg as completely owned schumacer

  8. Patrickl said on 7th December 2010, 20:34

    Has there been any explanation as to why Webber didn’t mention this to the team? It seems rather strange for him not to mention something like this.

    Was he afraid of repercussions? or did he simplky think it none of their business?

  9. Electrolite said on 7th December 2010, 22:46

    Do people honestly think a grown up and mature individual such as Mark Webber looked back on this year and then thought ‘Yeah, that’s what i’ll do. I think i’ll make up a story about having a fractured shoulder and use that as a sole excuse for the reason I didn’t win the 2010 title.’

    If anything, he’s not made excuses, as he kept quite about the whole thing during those disappointing last 4 races. He’s held his hands up enough times when he knows he’s been in the wrong. Some people are cynical and pathetic.

    • David A said on 8th December 2010, 0:05

      Problem is, some of his fans will use the shoulder as an excuse, and the comments in this thread are probably directed more at those annoying fanboys who berated Vettel throughout the season, rather than Webber himself. I agree that Webber has held his hands up many times and is not using this as an excuse.

    • Antifia said on 8th December 2010, 14:35

      Electrolite: That is exactly what I honestly think. Till somebody neutral tells “I’ve seen the medical records”, I’ll keep my opinion that he made it up as an excuse for losing the title. And this old trick of saying “no it is not an excuse” is just too obvious. From now on, when somebody says that Webber was beaten by Vettel, his fans are certain to say: Yes, but only because he raced 4 races with a broken shoulder..blah, blah, blah!
      Ah, and why he didn’t mention it during those 4 races? Maybe because there was no injury! And because telling this story back then would have triggered scrutiny. His team would have a doctor examining his shoulder and the whole thing would have become a pretty embarrassing for Mr. Webbo Tall-Tale.

      • Andrew G said on 8th December 2010, 23:59

        “his fans are certain to say…”

        No fans of webber have said that’s why he lost the title and webber has not said that’s why either. Just let it go. Why does every F1 story have to be sensationalised. Is it because the season is over and people are bored?

        • Was it the same shoulder that was broken in 2008? Because really, that is not so much of a stretch to accept that he has re-fractured the same injury. I beleive that is quite a common occurrance. Or do you want to see those medical records as well, Antifia?

  10. paul sainsbury said on 8th December 2010, 0:04

    ‘Who is Stirling Moss to comment on the driving abilities of Michael Schumacher??’

    I have to say, that is one of the best bits of (unintentional) humour I have read for quite some time.

    Seriously though, it does show a good example of a great and quite widespread ignorance of our sport from some modern fans. I am 39, so, Stirling was long-retired before I was even born, but I do know enough of the history to know where Stirling Moss stands in the pantheon of greats. The suggestion that he is not qualified to comment on the driving of MS is just appallingly ignorant.

  11. Stuart said on 8th December 2010, 0:45

    the sequel will be called “2011 – the year i won wdc then wiped all my haters faces in it”.

    Ahhhh hindsight.

  12. Schumi the greatest said on 8th December 2010, 11:20

    Back to the shumacher argument….”had the best car by miles” Sorry did senna,Prost, Clark, alonso or fangio not have the best car when he won his world titles? There are not many examples of drivers winning the tittle who didnt have the best car the closest 1 i can think of is 1997 when shucmacher nearly won the tittle in a car that started the season over 1.5 seconds a lap slower.

    @Jimn – your argument about simple mistakes is pretty poor to be honest…senna never made a simple mistake did he? The 1 thing i remember from when shcumacher was at ferrari was the astonishment if he simply made a driver error during a race that put him out…canada 99 springs too mind. Add to that only the ferrari’s of 01, 02 and 04 had real clear advantage anyway. 00 was a season long battle with mclaren and 03 was a 3 way fight between ferrari, williams and mclaren. If you want to delve into that a little further you’ll see schumacher was past 30 career wins after the end of 99 which put him 3rd on the all time winnders list…not bad for a guy who from 96-99 never had the quickest car in the field but still he managed to gain 16 victories in that time. During that spell he had some incredible drives spain 96, monaco 97, spa 97, hungary 98 (25 seconds lead he made in 17 laps) and his drive in suzuka 98 was very impressive before his tyre blew. tell me that hes not a great driver now?

    Obviously my username will lead you to believe im a biased schumacher fan, he is my favourite driver yes, but i also see him as flawed…much like senna (deliberatler driving prost off at japan 90 and many other incidents during his career that were questionable) the sad thing is senna’s death seems to have made alot of fans forget how alike him and schumacher were in that respect.

    Fair enough if you dont like someone but dont disrespect someones incredible talent just because of it.

  13. I’m really surprised to see that revelation of a broken/fractured shoulder is interpreted as ‘making an excuse’ here. Webber, from what we can tell, is one of the first guys to say “I screwed up” and last guys to point the finger.

    Confirmed by reading the book.

    Honestly surprised.

  14. Lenny said on 11th December 2010, 4:10

    More copies will be sold now that is for sure. I was not going to buy it but am now requesting it for Christmas thanks to this story.

    Good marketing by Webber. Definitely not a sore loser though. A fairly content loser I have thought. Have seen many interviews since Abu Dhabi and he reflects very positively on the season.

    Can see both sides of the argument but am with Ben and co on this one. Particularly lame response from Antifia implying that he was making it up. If this was so the FIA doctor who alledgedly knew about it and administered injections would be saying that he didn’t know anything about it.

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