Button frustrated after drive-through penalty

2011 Australian Grand Prix

Felipe Massa, Jenson Button, Melbourne, 2011

Felipe Massa, Jenson Button, Melbourne, 2011

Jenson Button said Felipe Massa forced him off the track during their battle for position during the Australian Grand Prix, leading to the McLaren driver receiving a drive-through penalty.

Speaking after the race Button said: “I got an OK start and then I was surprised to see [Vitaly] Petrov on the inside, he had a very good start, and forced me wide.

“I got stuck behind [Felipe] Massa because I had a very poor exit out of turn one. And that was the worst move of the race because he was so slow.

“He’s the most difficult person to overtake. He blocked me very well. But it just slowed us both down massively.

“I tried to overtake around turn 11 and he went so deep into the corner, pushed me wide, I wouldn’t go around the corner any more so I cut the corner. I was in front before we entered the corner.

“And then, you know, I didn’t know what to do. The team said ‘stay where you are’, which was the correct thing to do, ‘we’ll see what the stewards say’.

“As soon as Ferrari saw that happened they pitted Massa, and as soon as that happens you get a drive-through. So I don’t know if that was done on purpose or not.

“I got a drive-through and then I had to fight my way through which was quite fun but being that far back is very frustrating because the pace was much better than that.”

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173 comments on Button frustrated after drive-through penalty

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  1. TommyB (@tommyb89) said on 27th March 2011, 10:52

    Everyone watching knew Button should let Massa back passed or he’d get a penalty. Why didn’t he or McLaren?

    • Sush Meerkat said on 27th March 2011, 11:00

      Because Alonso passed Massa straight after, was it a tactical choice by Ferrari?, after all Button would then have to let both the Ferrari drivers past.

      • bosyber said on 27th March 2011, 15:03

        But he in the end ended up behind both anyway due to the drive-trough. If he had let them pass he would have had the change to try and repass them; now he only got to Massa again after half the race was gone, and never saw Alonso again during the race.

        Really, and as it should be, the smart, right, thing to do is: when in doubt, give the place back.

      • Mikef117 said on 27th March 2011, 18:36

        I watched the incident live and I agreed wholeheartedly with Brundle and Coulthard, that Button should let Massa back through.

        Once I saw Massa pulling aside for Alonso, I was shouting at the TV that MaClaren should have (used their nouse and) pitted Button so that both Ferrari’s were in front but he had the benefit of the pit stop.

        Was better than just pulling aside and allowing both through as Button got a benefit. Yes it would have been a little earlier than he wanted but still much better than the eventual outocme which really MaClaren should have been able to foresee.

        Let’s face it, MaClaren’s reputation in Oz is not that stellar after Ham lying to the stewards, so lose 5 seconds or lose 25 seconds? It shouldn’t be a hard decision even without the benefit of hindsight.

        • Jake said on 28th March 2011, 0:23

          wouldn’t have worked. He wouldn’t have been classed as giving back the advantage. oh, and it’s McLaren

        • ozzy (@ozzy) said on 28th March 2011, 15:17

          Hindsight is ALWAYS 20-20. I really think Button could have done a better job of passing Massa in the first place, maybe there is something for him to learn as well, from his teammate. I’m sure Hamilton would not have had the same problem. I think he is in a good car ( so far ) and he should try to capitalize when the Ferrari is not fast and webber is looking slow ( why ? ). He should have never tried to overtake there, that is a very bad corner for overtaking.

    • Ben Curly said on 27th March 2011, 11:00

      Honestly I don’t know what were they thinking. That’s the first thing that came to my mind after I saw the manoeuvre: give back the position. Yes, Alonso would benefit from that, tough luck. It would be better than a drive-through penalty.

      If McLaren doesn’t have anyone sharp enough to make such decisions during the race, they should definitely start looking.

      • David BR said on 27th March 2011, 17:12

        Or Button. He should have let Massa back straight away and tried again a few corners later. Why involve the team in the decision?

    • James_mc (@james_mc) said on 27th March 2011, 11:01

      I presume they decided to see if they could get away with it as they thought that they had nothing to lose, i.e. Button pulls away and if they get to keep it all is good, worst-case they drop back and give back the place. Unfortunately they didn’t realise that Alonso would follow Button through or that there would be a pit-stop.

      That’s my theory anyway.

      • Icthyes (@icthyes) said on 27th March 2011, 11:06

        Agreed. The fact Ferrari did the same in Silverstone should have warned them though.

        • bosyber said on 27th March 2011, 15:06

          Ferrari learned from last year, and I think everyone should have taken note of what happened to Alonso there, and just not risk it. Ferrari made sure that Button would loose position to both of their cars, and I can’t believe anyone in the pits could have not expected that.

      • Hatebreeder (@hatebreeder) said on 27th March 2011, 11:08

        button was claimin on the radio tat he was definitely ahead when he came out of the corner. maybe with tat assumption they thot they’d get away with it? it was a big gamble anyway.

        • Todfod (@todfod) said on 27th March 2011, 13:57

          Even if he was.. that doesn’t give him the right to cut the next corner just to keep felipe behind him. He definitely deserved the penalty..

          • Mike said on 27th March 2011, 14:19

            Not if Massa didn’t give him enough room…

            I’m not sure about the issue to be honest, it’s very iffy…

          • Todfod (@todfod) said on 27th March 2011, 22:00

            Its kind of like Spa 2008, but even there Lewis stepped off the gas to let Kimi by. Jenson really didn’t give a crap, he just wanted to dart ahead and pretend that the camera’s didn’t catch it.

      • BasCB (@bascb) said on 27th March 2011, 11:10

        Withmarsh said afterwards, they asked race control about it and RC promised to get back to them about it. Next thing was the investigation and penalty.

        That said, I think it was pretty clear Button should have let Massa by immedeately after the corner instead of pulling away. Massa was very slow on the speed there, he must have been letting Alonso past. No wonder Button then pulled away, he could see this coming.

        Sure, nice trick of Ferrari to deal the cards this way by pitting Massa. Its a tough battle out there.

        • Patrickl (@patrickl) said on 27th March 2011, 15:46

          Whitmarsh also explained that it was Button’s decision to stay ahead of Massa. Incredibly lame that he now tries to blame the team for his own blunder.

          Besides, Alonso pitted first. While Massa was obviously struggling with his tyres. How on earth did he not see it coming that Massa was going to pit soon too?

          • David BR said on 27th March 2011, 19:18

            Exactly. There are two myths when comparing Button to Hamilton, one that Hamilton is too aggressive on his tyres (he’s been showing the contrary since last season) and two that Button is the thinker. In fact Hamilton is a much quicker decision maker and probably would have immediately ceded position, confident he could regain it. Button threw the onus onto the team, stalled the decision and gave Ferrari time to activate plan A (get Alonso past Massa).

            Then again Hamilton would probably have got past Massa cleanly in the first place…

          • Mike said on 28th March 2011, 1:27

            I think it would have been Massa who made the decision, and not the Ferrari pit wall.

            To be honest, I think this was Massa letting Alonso past the right way, Great team work from Ferrari.

      • James_mc (@james_mc) said on 27th March 2011, 11:17

        Also having seen it again, part of the reason Button pulled ahead so quickly was that he got a much better drive out of the corner by taking the short cut.

      • Electrolite said on 27th March 2011, 11:22

        Most accurate yet James.

        • RIISE (@riise) said on 27th March 2011, 11:32

          He deserved the penalty no doubt, if course it made it difficult with Fernando coming through but still should’ve let them by. How he thought he was ahead i’ll never know.

          I don’t think he was pushed either, he should’ve followed him instead of trying a Hamilton-esque move against Rosberg.

      • McL are so used to get away with everything with the Mcstewards and the Mcracedirector, they tough they would go unpunished. They are still roaring about Spa where for once in their life they got what they deserve.

    • Fixy (@fixy) said on 27th March 2011, 11:35

      I tried to overtake around turn 11 and he went so deep into the corner, pushed me wide, I wouldn’t go around the corner any more so I cut the corner. I was in front before we entered the corner.

      No he wasn’t. The two were side-by-side and Button cut the track and earned not only the position but quite a lot of time, because he cut the track not near the kerb but clearly in the middle of the corner.

      • Cacarella (@cacarella) said on 27th March 2011, 14:45

        I think you’re right fixy. Besides, how can you be ahead of someone on the track but then be pushed of the track by them? He had to have seen massa beside him pushing him off the track, so Jenson thought that because his nose was ahead a bit, he had the position?

        • Cacarella (@cacarella) said on 27th March 2011, 15:45

          Nevermind PM,

          I had some spare time and found your post Silverston comment about Alonso-Kubica.

          Definately the right decision, though leave it to Ferrari to make martyrs of themselves. Alonso has no-one to blame but himself for the situation. The golden rule for this kind of thing is that when in doubt, there is no doubt. Jumping on the radio to send a message to the viewers and the stewards to make yourself look innocent does nothing.

          Great comment, even if you replace the names ‘Alonso’ with ‘Button’ and ‘Ferrari’ with ‘Mclaren’

      • bosyber said on 27th March 2011, 15:08

        Even if he was marginally ahead at the corner (it wasn’t enough to see it on the footage, I checked it a few times), cutting that corner gave a big advantage. Without it Massa and/or Alonso would have been on top of him at the next corner.

  2. i think by the time McLaren were thinking what to do, Massa let Alonso by… so if now Button has to give up positions he would have to let both Ferrari’s ahead… and then they pitted immediately. McLaren should have told Button to give up position the next corner. Even if Alonso had gone ahead of Button… Button would have managed to over take both of them at the pits jus like Petrov. McLaren need to be quick with their reactions.

  3. Dougie (@f1droid) said on 27th March 2011, 10:58

    Excuses.

    Sure, Alonso’s pass on Massa made it complicated. But Alonso pitted first, and that lap was one and a half minutes long enough for Button to let Massa back past.

    A minute and a half I was calling him to let Massa past, if I can see it then surely McLaren and Button could see it.

    Like I said, excuses.

  4. Oliver said on 27th March 2011, 10:59

    My point exactly. He lost about 16 seconds or more in total just to gain only about 4 seconds. Makes me wonder what goes on Behind the Mclaren pitwall during the race. After Hamilton’s Belgian affair, it had become obvoius that the FIA wont allow such stand especially when you consider tha in Hamilton’s case, not only did he have to take avoiding action, he also gave the position back. Button on the other hand forced the situation. I guess Mclaren were looking to ther simulator for advice.

  5. I think it’s common knowledge that he should’ve let Massa straight through, but it’s certainly worth noting Ferrari’s clever/sneaky behaviour (depending on how you see it) by switching the two and then pitting them both. Interesting…

    • Martin said on 27th March 2011, 13:10

      For me it looked like Massa did put up a fight.

      Well, I guess it’s mainly question of whether you root for McLaren or not.

    • Cacarella (@cacarella) said on 27th March 2011, 14:51

      Ferrari was unable to pit both at the same time though weren’t they? and I think you could more clearly define it as sneaky if they had pitted Massa straight away but they didn’t, they pitted Alonso. Which allowed Mclaren almost 2 full laps to decide to let Massa past.

      I’m sure if Rob Smedley had quickly yelled out ‘let Alonso past for the team!’ (in the 10 seconds it took Alonso to get past) the media would have been all over Ferrari’s ‘team orders’ on the first race of the year.

      • bosyber said on 27th March 2011, 15:11

        And Ferrari would have shrugged, and said it was allowed now, especially as it let both drivers be well clear of a competitor, and they would be right.

        Much as I dislike team orders, here, even with a team order ban, I think it might have been a slightly sneaky, but clever, move to let Alonso pass Massa; afterall, here Alonso was really faster than Massa,. Had they needed to, they could have waited for him to use KERS and DRS on the straight though.

    • ed24f1 (@ed24f1) said on 28th March 2011, 0:17

      I think that Ferrari were going to pit then regardless if you look at the length of other drivers’ stints, and Ferrari’s 2nd stints.

      I don’t think Massa let Alonso by. It’s pretty common in motorsport that once you get overtaken once, you lose momentum and are very susceptible to being overtaken again at the next few corners.

  6. MattHT (@mattht) said on 27th March 2011, 11:03

    Never mind Mclaren, Button isn’t daft and is experienced enough to know he should have to yield that position back. Other than that anomaly though i thought he looked alright today.

  7. Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 27th March 2011, 11:04

    So I don’t know if that was done on purpose or not.

    If it was, a disqualfication should have been handed down. I’m not saying this because I don’t like Ferrari, I’m saying this because there is a line somewhere, and if Ferrari did it deliberately, then they crossed a line. I know team orders are legal this year, and even if I don’t like them, I’m willing to stay silent about them if a team is swapping their own drivers about. But if they make a call that affects a rival competitor as massively as giving them a drive-through penalty, then that’s taking things too far. You’re not affecting your own race, you’re interfering with someone else’s. If I were McLaren, I’d be appealing to the stewards to listen to the pit-to-car transmissions between Ferrari and Massa. If Ferrari ordered Massa to pit in order to stick a penalty on Jenson Button and take him out of the running, then they deserve a disqualification. And I’d be saying it if McLaren were the ones who did it to Ferrari. Meddle with your own results as much as you want. Meddle with someone else’s, and you’ve taken things too far. Likewise, the stewards should have made Ferrari swap Massa and Alonso back, because Button shouldn’t have to gift Alonso a position given the circumstances.

    At the very least, the rules should be changed. If a driver leaves the bounds of the circuit and gains a place, but his rival pits or retires before he can give that place back, then ten seconds should be added to his time at the end of the race. A drive-through should only be issued if a driver goes out of bounds to pass another, but does not give the place back and the other drive stays out of the pits and in the race.

    • BasCB (@bascb) said on 27th March 2011, 11:12

      While I agree the pitting thing needs a bit looking into, I am not too sure it would be rife for DSQ.

      I thought it pretty clever by Ferrari actually. Not nice, but it did the trick.

      • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 27th March 2011, 11:25

        Okay, let’s put it this way: d’Ambrosio and Kovalainen go into turns 11 and 12 side-by-side. D’Ambrosio is squeezed wide and leaves the bounds of the track, but picks up a place. Before he is given a chance to give the place back, Fernandes-Lotus has Kovalainen pit straight away because they know they are racing d’Ambrosio, and they know that if Kovalainen pits, d’Ambrosio will not be able to give the place back and will get a drive-through penalty because of it. Although the cars are approaching the next round of pit stops, telemetry shows that Kovalainen has not experienced the kind of decrease in lap times that means he needs to come straight in (though he will very soon). D’Ambrosio is given a drive-through penalty, ruining his race, and Kovalainen goes on to score points. If not for the penalty, d’Ambrosio would have been racing Kovalainen for a points-scoring finish. It is the final race of the season, and these points will secure tenth place in the Constructors’ standings.

        You are in Johnny Herbert’s position. At the end of the race, Virgin protest the result, claiming that Fernandes-Lotus had Kovalainen pit to force a drive-through penalty onto d’Ambrosio and effectively take him out of the race. Pit-to-car conversations show that Kovalainen was told to pit as soon as he reported d’Ambrosio left the circuit and gained a place. There had been no previous chatter to indicate that Fernandes-Lotus wanted Kovalainen to come in; they have not even asked him what state his tyres are in. However, Fernandes-Lotus claim that Kovalainen was beginning to experience a slow-down in lap times, and that they ordered him to pit because they knew they were racing d’Ambrosio and wanted to change tyres before the drop-off in performance occurred. Both versions of events are equally plausible.

        As the driver-steward, what do you do?

        • Oliver said on 27th March 2011, 11:36

          There is no law in Jupiter that says you can only pit when your tyres are worn out. And seeing that some of the FIA’s rules are from another planet, II guess the same still holds. If you do wrong correct it immediately by the next corner. Don’t wait for your simulator to analyse the trade off.

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 27th March 2011, 11:50

            There is no law in Jupiter that says you can only pit when your tyres are worn out.

            No, there isn’t. But you can’t tell me that pitting to force someone else to take a penalty and remove them from the race is sportsmanlike.

          • Oliver said on 27th March 2011, 11:55

            But didn’t our beloved team try to do just that in Australia of 2009 against Trulli, after going against and messing up thier driver’s understanding of the rule.

          • Oliver said on 27th March 2011, 12:01

            And III also believe Ferrari handed Mclaren an opportunity to sort things out by pitting Alonso First. But stubborn people never learn. We will just hear sweet talking post race of houw they honestly felt this or that or this data supports whatever.

          • So, they should be both dsq when they broke no rules whatsoever, only because you find that unsportmanslike. Perfect.

            Go send Button to take some driving lessons instead, he needs them badly.

          • Kate said on 27th March 2011, 12:09

            No, there isn’t. But you can’t tell me that pitting to force someone else to take a penalty and remove them from the race is sportsmanlike.

            No, but its also not against the rules.

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 27th March 2011, 12:14

            So, they should be both dsq when they broke no rules whatsoever, only because you find that unsportmanslike.

            Unsportsmanlike conduct is grounds for disqualfication.

            I’m willing to bet that if Button and Massa were in reversed roles, the Ferrari fans would be calling for blood.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 27th March 2011, 15:09

            Im willing to bet that if Button and Massa were in reversed roles, the Ferrari fans would be calling for blood.

            But they are not in reversed roles, and if they were, those fans wouldn’t actually be right, would they?

          • Patrickl (@patrickl) said on 27th March 2011, 15:49

            “Unsportsmanlike conduct is grounds for disqualfication.”

            Like overtaking someone via a shortcut and then not giving your position back?

          • Mike said on 28th March 2011, 2:06

            PM that’s the most ridonkulous thing I’ve ever read…

        • Bigbadderboom (@bigbadderboom) said on 27th March 2011, 11:46

          Although I agree Button should have yeilded the position, by taking the course of action after Ferraris deliberate actions in confusing the situation the race stewards have se a dangerous precedent, given the same set of circumstances again team orders will allow a team to manipulate the race outcome. I think the lesson learnt is that drivers should just yeild the position and not leave to chance other drivers/teams actions.

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 27th March 2011, 11:55

            Button had Seb Syndrome going into turn twelve. It’s a rare condition that affects only racing drivers. Because of the HANS device anchoring his head in place and the high sides of the cockpit, a driver cannot see to either side of him, and nor can he turn his head to look. Looking at the overhead view of the incident, Button was alongside Massa and had the inside line going into turn twelve. Given that he physically could not see Massa, it’s little wonder that he thought he had the position.

        • Absolutely nothing. You can pit whenever you please, there’s no rule that your tyres need to be worn such-and-such or whatever. If it gains you and advantage, well that’s what the rules are about. Tough luck for Button that Alonso got so close, but absolutely nothing illegal from Ferrari whichever way you look at it.

          • What the races (not the rules) are about

          • Babis1980 said on 28th March 2011, 10:54

            In my opinion is a joke to believe that Button thought he had the corner and that Massa pussed him out of the track. He clearly gain a advantage and he should give the position back, before even the next corner. It’s that simple.

            I can’t understand it at all. All drivers if they where in Button possition they would do the same thing and all drivers except him would say that he should give the possition back. It’s a F1 driver thingy, I guess.

        • RBAlonso said on 27th March 2011, 12:02

          I disagree with you here mate. In Japan 2005 Alonso passed Klien at the final chicane over the run-off and immediately lifted, letting Klien by, then mugged him going into turn 1. He received a drive thru’ but the stewards changed their mind afterwards and said it was ok. Hamilton tried the same trick in Spa but didn’t let Raikkonen through completely and was therefore punished.

          If JB had lifted whilst cutting the corner he would be very close to massa at turn 14 and therefore eligible to use drs on the straight and probably pass. This in my opinion would have resulted in 2 McLaren’s on the podium today.

          As for interfering with McLaren’s race, i do not agree with. Massa was slow and Ferrari knew a penalty or button dropping back was likely, so they were simply doing what was best for the team.

          It would be interesting to hear from you.

          • BBT (@bbt) said on 27th March 2011, 20:23

            If JB had lifted whilst cutting the corner he would be very close to massa at turn 14 and therefore eligible to use drs on the straight and probably pass. This in my opinion would have resulted in 2 McLaren’s on the podium today.

            No he wouldn’t. He’d used the DRS in the last god knows how many preceding laps and couldn’t get past Massa. What would of made this lap any better. The Mclarens were poor out of the last corners which is where Hamilton lost so much time to Vettel in Qualifying. Keith did a post on it. Basically this is why Buttons use of the DRS didn’t work against Massa in the first stint of the race.

          • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 27th March 2011, 20:45

            Button did pass Massa on-track in the end so it’s not unreasonable to assume that had he aborted his attempt to pass Massa at turn 11 he’d have got by later.

            The McLarens were poor out of the last corners which is where Hamilton lost so much time to Vettel in Qualifying. Keith did a post on it.

            I never said the McLarens were poor in the last corner, I said the Red Bulls were good in the last sector.

          • Adrian J (@adrian-j) said on 28th March 2011, 9:29

            Or more likely he would have been able to stay out for 2 stops as opposed to the 3 that the Ferrari’s made and so had track position.

            As it was JB passed through the pits 3 times – the same as the Ferrari’s, but only benefited from new tyres on 2 of those (as the 3rd was the penalty) and still ended up racing the Ferrari’s…take the drive-through out of his race and he would have been challenging for a podium.

            Simple matter is Button broke the rules – whatever Ferrari then did doesn’t matter. If JB hadn’t broken the rules then it wouldn’t be an issue.

            And I’m a McLaren and Button fan saying this.

    • Icthyes (@icthyes) said on 27th March 2011, 11:15

      At the very least, the rules should be changed. If a driver leaves the bounds of the circuit and gains a place, but his rival pits or retires before he can give that place back, then ten seconds should be added to his time at the end of the race. A drive-through should only be issued if a driver goes out of bounds to pass another, but does not give the place back and the other drive stays out of the pits and in the race.

      Agreed.

    • Electrolite said on 27th March 2011, 11:26

      If Ferrari ordered Massa to pit in order to stick a penalty on Jenson Button and take him out of the running, then they deserve a disqualification. And I’d be saying it if McLaren were the ones who did it to Ferrari. Meddle with your own results as much as you want. Meddle with someone else’s, and you’ve taken things too far.

      Couldn’t agree more. Once it became evident it could have been on purpose I was livid! it also took away a potential battle or two as well, had Button still been in the mix…

      • So you think you can hand out dsqs to whatever driver just because you don’t like them. Your beloved Button should have given back the position right away, or (better for him) the moment ALO was pitting. It’s no fault of Ferrari that he didn’t.

        Rules are there for something, and you still have to break them to get a punishment. But you should already know that. Voluntary blindness can’t be cured.

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 27th March 2011, 12:17

          This has nothing to do with support of a driver and everything to do with what is considered – or should be considered – legal. I’m sorry, but there’s simply no way you can justify deliberately pitting a driver to force another to take a penalty. Even if it’s not in the rules, it’s a very dirty and underhanded tactic, regardless of who does it or who they do it to.

          • Cacarella (@cacarella) said on 27th March 2011, 15:02

            They Pitted Massa TWO LAPS later. Fernando was pitted first. Mclaren had plenty of time to let Massa past. If you watch the race again (maybe two more times so that your Ferrari ‘hate goggles’ are fully off, you might see it a bit clearer.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 27th March 2011, 15:04

            Ferrari pitted Alonso first, not Massa. So clearly Button could have just let Massa through.

          • Santi said on 27th March 2011, 15:40

            I didn’t see any deliberately pitting. As others have said before, Alonso pitted first. Button had all the time in the world to give the position back.

          • Prisoner Monkeys said on 28th March 2011, 1:13

            Ferrari pitted Alonso first, not Massa. So clearly Button could have just let Massa through.

            But Button believed he had the position and that Massa forced him off the circuit. Overhead shots of the incident show that Button is clearly alongside Massa and that he has the inside line going into turn twelve.

          • Mike said on 28th March 2011, 2:17

            You can’t take a shortcut and also take a position on the same corner, That’s how it is. Button got it wrong, his team should have told him so. Things didn’t work out, That’s F1.

            Ferrari did nothing nothing, they didn’t break any rules, they are allowed to pit any time the pit is open.

          • Jeffrey Powell said on 28th March 2011, 10:25

            Would have been very amusing to see how slow Massa would have gone to stop Button letting him repass, perhaps stopping briefly for an expresso in the pits.

    • Cacarella (@cacarella) said on 27th March 2011, 14:58

      At the very least, the rules should be changed. If a driver leaves the bounds of the circuit and gains a place, but his rival pits or retires before he can give that place back, then ten seconds should be added to his time at the end of the race. A drive-through should only be issued if a driver goes out of bounds to pass another, but does not give the place back and the other drive stays out of the pits and in the race.

      I find it Hilarious that you come up with this now. I haven’t checked the archives, but I’m sure you weren’t singing this tune when Fernando passed Kubica last year and couldn’t give back the position because of Kubica’s retirement.

      • bosyber said on 27th March 2011, 15:16

        Yeah. It was a bit sneaky, but it was also clever in an F1 way. McLaren knew the deal, they had time to react, they waited because they hoped to bargain with the stewards. That failed, just like it failed last year for Ferrari. Had they not tried to be overly clever themselves, they, like Ferrari last year, wouldn’t have had so much trouble. Better luck next time.

      • Cacarella (@cacarella) said on 27th March 2011, 15:47

        Makes more sense to post this here.

        Nevermind PM,
        I had some spare time and found your post Silverston comment about Alonso-Kubica.
        Definately the right decision, though leave it to Ferrari to make martyrs of themselves. Alonso has no-one to blame but himself for the situation. The golden rule for this kind of thing is that when in doubt, there is no doubt. Jumping on the radio to send a message to the viewers and the stewards to make yourself look innocent does nothing.
        Great comment, even if you replace the names ‘Alonso’ with ‘Button’ and ‘Ferrari’ with ‘Mclaren’

        • Red Andy (@red-andy) said on 27th March 2011, 18:21

          I believe the phrase “hoisted by one’s own petard” is appropriate.

        • I would add 2 definitions, just to help newbies to understand PMspeak:
          Unsportsmanslike: anything done by Ferrari, always worth a DSQ
          Sportsmanslike: anything done by Button. also anything that hurts Ferrari

        • Prisoner Monkeys said on 28th March 2011, 1:10

          Definately the right decision, though leave it to Ferrari to make martyrs of themselves. Alonso has no-one to blame but himself for the situation. The golden rule for this kind of thing is that when in doubt, there is no doubt. Jumping on the radio to send a message to the viewers and the stewards to make yourself look innocent does nothing.

          The difference here is that Button’s situation was open to debate whereas Alonso clearly passed Kubica. And I suspect Ferrari told Alonso not to give the position back and take the penalty to prove a point about stewarding in the wake of Valencia.

          • Julian said on 28th March 2011, 2:57

            ummm thats great but button clearly passed massa. How else did he get in front? Feel free to ‘rebut’ that. I wanna hear your explanation as to how a car can get in front of another without passing it. :)

            And no the situation is the same as silverstone barring 1 difference.
            1- Instead of Ferrari getting penalised, they gained from the situation. This is the reason why you are being such a hypocrite

            Open your eyes
            Alonso-Kubica
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJXQXYapdxA

            Masaa-Button
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VICgULhacyA

          • Todfod (@todfod) said on 28th March 2011, 12:00

            @PM. Its obvious that you are a jenson fan and an alonso hater, but I cannot believe that your bias would delude you to such an extent. Maybe you should take a look at the clips a little better. Both Alonso and Button made similar ATTEMPTS to overtake from the outside, both were squeezed by the defending driver, both cut the following corner and gained a position, and both were given the same penalty. I do not know how that classifies Jenson’s overtake as debatable, and Alonso’s as a deserved penalty.

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 28th March 2011, 23:49

            Its obvious that you are a jenson fan and an alonso hater, but I cannot believe that your bias would delude you to such an extent.

            I never said they did it. I said if they did it, then it should be grounds for disqualification because it was deliberately interfering with someone else’s race result. However, thanks to certain Ferrari fans who feel that anything Ferrari does is legal (even if someone else just got disqualified for it), everyone has misinterpreted what I’m saying. I’m not accusing Ferrari of anything. I’m just questioning a hypothetical situation where one team deliberately pits one of their cars to force another driver to take a drive-through penalty and remove them from the race, and whether or not this is considered sporting.

    • F1 is ruthless. Bite the bullet and move on mate

    • chemakal said on 28th March 2011, 15:02

      PM, what a lot of nonsense. As I see you your complete blindness generated by your hate to Ferrari has been well answered so I’ll only point your following comment:

      “I know team orders are legal this year, and even if I don’t like them, I’m willing to stay silent about them if a team is swapping their own drivers about.”

      Silence… Yeees!

  8. Kate said on 27th March 2011, 11:06

    Button and McLaren must have been literally the only people watching who didn’t see that penalty was coming – especially after the precedent from Silverstone last year. Being forced wide isn’t an excuse, as Alonso found out with Kubica. Button had plenty of time to let Massa back through before he pitted as well, he should have done it immediately – a lapse in judgement that frankly I really didn’t expect from him.

    And McLaren should have ordered him to yield, I don’t know how they thought they were going to get away with it.

  9. MattHT (@mattht) said on 27th March 2011, 11:24

    But isn’t Mclaren waiting for a decision sneaky too? Personally i thought it less sporting to cut a corner and not relinquish the position than for Ferrari to work someone else’s stupidity to their own advantage. Though of course a GP wouldn’t be a GP without someone demanding someone else get disqualified for nothing!

  10. Eric said on 27th March 2011, 11:24

    Ferrari’s Massa manages to hold up Mclaren’s Button till Alonso comes up to striking position.
    but Button never seams to be able to hold up Vettel so Hamilton can have a chance at Vettel.

    • Butler258 said on 27th March 2011, 11:30

      Thats probably because Vettel was on fresh rubber and was in a quicker car…

    • Oliver said on 27th March 2011, 11:51

      I very much doubt Button had team mate on his mind at that very moment. I also believe Button stood to benefit by pushing ashad as he could. Vettel just had fresh tyres and at this stage Button doesn’t need to do a “Coulthard” team player thing just to be loved by the team. Mclaren like drivers that show a good fight not those without a purpose.

  11. LocustGP (@locustgp) said on 27th March 2011, 11:39

    personally, i hope it just gets dropped and chalk it up to lesson learned for next time:
    - Mclaren should make a quick decision regardless especially when pit stops are coming up.
    - Ferrari probably should try not to force the stewards levy a penalty

    at least Button showed that using DRS (& KERS) works for passing, twice. good stuff…

  12. renzo said on 27th March 2011, 11:52

    am I wrong, or it happened just the same thing last year with alonso overtaking kubica?
    Anyway I think Ferrari pitted Massa because he was terribly off the pace with that tyres.

  13. Oliver said on 27th March 2011, 12:04

    My guess is tha Mclaren thought….oh its not Lewis… Its ok no problem…Mosley not here.. Wink wink.

  14. box this lap (@sebashuis) said on 27th March 2011, 12:05

    “As soon as Ferrari saw that happened they pitted Massa, and as soon as that happens you get a drive-through. So I don’t know if that was done on purpose or not.

    I think they did, of course they did….

  15. MattHT (@mattht) said on 27th March 2011, 12:36

    I’ve heard it all now. The Anyone But Ferrari gang are fantastic entertainment if nothing else. This is less than nothing. Now please excuse me whilst i go search for evidence of Ferrari tampering with Saubers rear wing….

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