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66 comments on Alonso goes from leader to lapped as Ferrari struggle on ‘super hards’

1. 

   MarcusAurelius (@marcusaurelius) said on 22nd May 2011, 19:55

   Looking at Heidfeld starting from 24th and finishing well ahead of Petrov who started 5th makes me wonder if it is worth skipping Qualification (or make a hard-tire effort only)…

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   • 

     Rob said on 22nd May 2011, 20:38

     I was wondering why they dont simply use one set of hards to get into the top 10, reserving all the softs and two sets of fresh hards for the race. Starting 10th with a full allocation of fresh tires should work considering how well it works for those who start last.

     The difficulty would be getting into the top 10.

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     • 

       mfDB (@mfdb) said on 22nd May 2011, 23:08

       Well, everyone but Mclaren and Redbull need the soft just to get to the top 10…if Ferrari, renault, and mercedes stay on hards in q2, then sauber, force india, and torrorosso get on the softs and make it q3…

       I see your point though, like shumacher this race, don’t fight for pole since you’re not going to get it, just get you highest position possible on hards and use them up in the first stint…then have your soft with a light car at the end of the race….

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       • 

         Mike said on 23rd May 2011, 5:07

         I think Schumacher had a technical problem.

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         • 

           BasCB (@bascb) said on 23rd May 2011, 6:42

           He had a KERS problem, so he knew it was not going to be a good grid position anyhow and decided to take the chance for new tyres.
       • 

         McLar3n said on 23rd May 2011, 6:20

         Everyone except McLaren and Redbull need the soft to get into top 17, not just top 10. Even McLaren just made the cut for Q2 with the hards, cause everyone bar Redbull and McLaren ran Q1 on softs.

         The strategy of not using many softs might work very well for the likes of McLaren. No good vs. Redbull in Q, but utterly devastating in race pace. Throw in a couple of unused tyre sets in that equation and you have a winner…

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   • 

     DaveW (@dmw) said on 22nd May 2011, 22:00

     This progression from Malaysia on says we will see Q3 truly contested less and less. Sad. All the rules fiddling going on, we need to look at freeing up the saturday allocation. This time, we had a Mercedes sit out and lost out on a true battle for the poll because for Vettel, P1 wasn’t even worth it.

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     • 

       Mike said on 23rd May 2011, 12:00

       It was contested, it’s just the Red Bull cars were so far ahead of everyone else the contest for pole was only between them!

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2. 

   rfs said on 22nd May 2011, 19:57

   Maybe the Ferrari just wasn’t getting the hards up to temperature?

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   • 

     Solo (@solo) said on 23rd May 2011, 13:19

     That is indeed their problem because they are very kind to their tyres and a more hard tyre would be hard for them to get up to temperature.
     Mclaren seem to put more heat on the tyres and are generally handling the softs worst than Ferrari and Red Bull, but that helps them put heat on the new hard tyres. Maybe that’s why Hamilton could manage to threaten Vettel.

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3. 

   alex said on 22nd May 2011, 20:00

   Heidfeld was really impressive!

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   • 

     Oliver said on 23rd May 2011, 11:23

     Kobayashi was more impressive.

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4. 

   BasCB (@bascb) said on 22nd May 2011, 20:01

   First of all, it seems Ferrari were not able to get as much running out of the softs (might have been because of having only used ones for Alonso as Massa kept them longer with slower laps).
   But I figure they sort of forgot to tune the car in for the hards. Alonso stopped quite early hoping the second set would be better for him, but it didn’t improve his times.

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   • 

     Fixy (@fixy) said on 22nd May 2011, 20:30

     The softs were used too little and the secons set of hards as well.

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5. 

   Sushi Meerkat (@sushi-meerkat) said on 22nd May 2011, 20:23

   Good news everyguys!, I’ve got an interview with Ferrari on Tuesday to be Fernando Alonso’s race Strategy Director, any advice would be welcome, my main selling point to Ferrari will be that “What ever Mark Webber does, I’d do that to!”

   Wish me luck.
   :D

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   • 

     AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 22nd May 2011, 20:29

     Good luck!

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   • 

     bosyber said on 22nd May 2011, 21:03

     Good luck, although I suppose that Abu Dhabi shows that might need some boundary conditions, so prepare some thoughts on that too. Looking forward to seeing Ferrari get the strategy right under your guidance!

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     • 

       Sushi Meerkat (@sushi-meerkat) said on 22nd May 2011, 21:44

       Come on guys, I was totally messing.

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       • 

         AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 23rd May 2011, 18:45

         Oh! For shame!

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   • 

     Bartholomew said on 22nd May 2011, 22:21

     Everything in Ferrari is done by looking at a cristal ball. Be sure you take yours

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6. 

   AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 22nd May 2011, 20:28

   I notice Kobayashi stuck the hards on as soon as he could. He does enjoy having the later stints on softs. He had a good race, just a shame he couldn’t have stuck to his usual strategy (not including the puncture), we could have seen an even better result from him.

   Heidfeld did really well also. Seems the back of the grid isn’t THAT bad.

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   • 

     bosyber said on 22nd May 2011, 21:38

     It seems a pretty good way to get good points, if you have some speed but want to avoid using tyres, and battling the first few laps. But I don’t think it can get you a win in normal situations. Even that podium by Webber was only doable for a Red Bull car I think.

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   • 

     Oliver said on 23rd May 2011, 9:28

     He stuck the hards on because, falling back after the first lap is totally different from starting from last position. So his only hope was to go on a very long stint.
     Kobayashi’s tenth position is in my opinion much better than Heidfeld’s 8th.

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     • 

       Ral said on 23rd May 2011, 11:24

       I agree. Also because the Renault is a faster car to begin with.

       Kobayashi is really thriving in the Sauber team and I think the Sauber team themselves really are starting to look like a really decent team in their own right, perhaps buoyed by their drivers’ performances. It’s easier when things go right perhaps, but at the moment they don’t seem to get mired in political mind-games quite as much as anyone else on the grid.

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     • 

       US_Peter (@us_peter) said on 23rd May 2011, 21:11

       Agreed. Even with that first stop after the puncture, he still only did three stops! That means apart from lap 1 he really only did three stints, so effectively a 2 stop strategy from the back of the grid. Those Saubers are really gentle on the Pirellis!

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7. 

   Fixy (@fixy) said on 22nd May 2011, 20:28

   Where’s the link to show the graphs full page?

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   • 

     Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 22nd May 2011, 21:14

     There has never been one.

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     • 

       Ben Curly (@ben-curly) said on 22nd May 2011, 22:52

       There was a “view interactive chart full screen” last year. As an example, here’s the link for 2010 Spanish GP analysis:

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       • 

         Ben Curly (@ben-curly) said on 22nd May 2011, 22:53

         http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/05/09/super-start-helps-alguersuari-to-points-finish-spanish-grand-prix-analysis/

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       • 

         Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 22nd May 2011, 22:56

         Ah I see what you mean – but not with the non-Flash charts that have been in use since the end of last year.

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8. 

   Adrian Morse said on 22nd May 2011, 20:59

   Keith, it should be “Lewis Hamilton began his third stint five laps later than Sebastian Vettel”.

   I think it’s because there are so many pit stops, that it’s easy to get confused. The Dutch commentator Olav Mol was wondering why Webber and Alonso had switched to hard tyres on lap 29, as he assumed they had softs left, but in fact they had gone through three sets before half distance!

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   • 

     Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 22nd May 2011, 21:15

     Ah yes, thanks – fixed it.

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9. 

   JT said on 22nd May 2011, 21:02

   you guys gotta keep in mind that Fernando wasn’t able to use the DRS the entire race.

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   • 

     sato113 (@sato113) said on 22nd May 2011, 21:16

     how do you know? he never needed to use it anyway!

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10. 

    Trent (@perf) said on 22nd May 2011, 21:02

    “Button could, however, and as a result only had to spend 18 laps on hards. That compares to Alonso and Webber who had to run 37 laps – more than half the race – on the slowest compound.”

    Very interesting, Keith. Maybe you could include those stats (as an additional table) for every driver from now on?

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    • 

      mitchibob (@mitchibob) said on 22nd May 2011, 23:23

      I have to agree.. hopefully, it’ll be relatively easy to get the lap time chart to include which tyres the driver was on at the time, rather than cross-reference with the table above. Or perhaps there’s some other visualisation that’ll help see what’s going on.

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    • 

      Mike said on 23rd May 2011, 5:17

      Considering how slow the hard compound was it leaves me baffled how two of the top teams could both let that happen. It’s not like they weren’t planning ahead…..

      Reply
11. 

    bosyber said on 22nd May 2011, 21:19

    So it looks like Mercedes is really consistent, but consistently slower, on all types of tyre. That’s what lost Massa, and maybe Petrov, a lot of time until their 2nd stop; After that, Massa had about the same speed as Alonso. But that was the sort of speed Mercedes had already from the start, and getting slower near the end of the race.

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    • 

      Burnout (@burnout) said on 22nd May 2011, 22:14

      Agreed. Schumacher’s laptimes just show a very gradual trend towards quicker laps. If we didn’t know about the tyre changes, one would assume it was just because of the drop in fuel.

      Or was this because neither Mercedes ever got to run in clear air? Schumacher was constantly defending and Rosberg was running in dirty air throughout the race.

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      • 

        Paul A (@paul-a) said on 22nd May 2011, 23:00

        Isn’t this a question of older “ego” versus younger “ability”? Makes me wonder about common sense and team orders.

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        • 

          Last Pope Eye said on 23rd May 2011, 0:26

          It is racing dude. Anybody has the right to defend position. Ego and ability thing is all in your dream.

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        • 

          McLar3n said on 23rd May 2011, 6:33

          It was outright racing between the two, and Schumacher has a superb defense arsenal. The move he made to prevent Rosberg overtaking into turn 1 midway through the race was epic.

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          • 

            W-K (@w-k) said on 23rd May 2011, 11:18

            Schumi’s defense might have been epic, but, I think if Rosberg had been allowed to pass Schumi early on, then Rosberg could possibl have taken Alonso. Which would have improved the teams performance, which is the more important consideration. Team points mean $’s.
          • 

            Burnout (@burnout) said on 23rd May 2011, 19:06

            Maybe, W-K. But Team points meant $ at Suzuka last year too, and Rosberg didn’t move over for Schumacher who was clearly quicker after the final pit stops. I’m just happy that Mercedes is still being fair to both its drivers by not imposing team orders just yet.
12. 

    bosyber said on 22nd May 2011, 21:35

    It is a bit sad, Ferrari seemed to think at the start of the season that they had made their car “easy” on the tyres, and would thus perhaps have slight issues heating up the tyres, but also a corresponding longer lifetime of them, which didn’t really happen in a useful way. It seems the Pirelli tyres get wrecked if aren’t fully heated up, effectively underloading them or something. And Ferrari have that problem more or less constantly with those harder tyres.

    As Massa said, I guess they will really be hoping the Monaco compounds will work better with their car, but there will be too few such races this year to save their season, it looks like.

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    • 

      Atticus said on 22nd May 2011, 22:55

      This new hard compound is, as we know it, different from the one used until Turkey, it’s a kind of ‘super hard’ which suits Ferrari even less (even harder to get temperature into them) and suits Lewis’ aggressive driving style even more. All in all I think this is the trye on which Lewis is going to get his best results this year, it’s perfect for him compared to the other three.

      I expect Ferrari to be much more competitive in Monaco on the softs and the super softs, Red Bull with less of an advantage, and McLaren as usual. But I still believe Vettel and Webber have the one lap pace to lock out the front positions so even with Ferrari keeping up with them they won’t be able to capitalise on this because overtaking in Monaco is impossible – even with DRS, because there simply isn’t enough space.

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13. 

    Peter Levy said on 22nd May 2011, 21:42

    Keith I had a thought with respect to these charts, which are great by the way and I really enjoy trying to analyse them.

    Anyway my idea was that it would be good to include in the ‘Pit Stops’ chart an indicator (“H” and “S” maybe) on the chart itself of the tyre used in each stint.

    Might need a smidge of re-design to avoid clutter, but I think it would be good.

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    • 

      US_Peter (@us_peter) said on 23rd May 2011, 21:17

      That would be great!

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14. 

    Paul A (@paul-a) said on 22nd May 2011, 21:50

    I am beginning to question the wisdom of this FIA / Pirelli / FOTA? / Ecclestone decision to make tyres last substantially less and increase the number of pittstops. I was quite looking forward to it as last year’s Bridgestones, particularly the harder ones at each track, could potentially last the whole race, and I felt that the mandatory use of both types was (and still is) very artificial. But I’m beginning to have doubts …

    It certainly adds to the “spectacle” by decreasing the importance of driver skill (with the exception of “saving tyres” – pussy-footing – which I do not think is a proper part of racing) and putting responsibility into the hands of the team management’s computer geeks for “strategy” – to the point where even the professional radio/tv commentators are getting vague or even lost.

    Alonso came close to proving my point (and Keith’s graphs confirm it): a very good start that demonstrated the true “art” of a driver; two stints in the lead without the slightest hint of weaving or other dirty tricks to keep other cars behind him; then dropping slowly back to fifth because of tyre design. The Ferrari car might not have deserved better than fifth, but the Ferrari driver certainly did. Being lapped was ignominious.

    So, while the “Pirelli philosophy” might be acceptable for a constructors’ championship, I am getting more and more concerned for the drivers’ championship. It’s just too easy to say that “everyone’s in the same boat” and “manage your tyres”, but that does not allow driver skill to shine when it comes to scoring points.

    Hopefully we’ll see better at Monaco – every race is a new day.

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    • 

      substructure said on 22nd May 2011, 23:22

      totally agree, although i reckon saving tyres “should” be a part of racing, however only if its a viable alternative to going all out… i dont think theres anything wrong with button style tyre conservation, apart from it being a bit boring, but when its the only option its not really racing anymore. thats the problem with all of this i think – theres no room for multiple strategies

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15. 

    Jian said on 22nd May 2011, 22:04

    Do we know why Lewis couldn’t make his tires last at least 3 laps longer than Vettel’s softs before the stop to change to hards? Did he use a set of old soft tires? I thought his shot for 1st probably ended right there…

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    • 

      Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 22nd May 2011, 22:14

      I think Hamilton used his set of new softs in his second stint, and Vettel did likewise in his third.

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      • 

        Steven Burns said on 22nd May 2011, 23:16

        Vettel went 0.5seconds quicker in his first 2nd sector after switching to the softs… this forced Hamilton into pitting when he did, as if he’d gone further he would just have slipped further behind. As it was, he was 2.5seconds behind when he came out of the pits. If he had stayed out this gap would just have widened and there was no benefit of the fresher tires at the end as the Hards were not going off as quickly as the softer compound.

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        • 

          Mr draw said on 23rd May 2011, 14:56

          I was expecting Hamilton to stay out for at least a couple of more laps, or even not stopping at all, but unfortunately he didn’t. If he had made his final pitstop later, he would also have closed the gap, after which his better tyres would have enabled him to be close enough to make the DRS work.

          Reply

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