Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, Monaco, 2011

Hamilton given penalty for Maldonado collision

2011 Monaco Grand PrixPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, Monaco, 2011
Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, Monaco, 2011

Lewis Hamilton has been given a 20-second penalty following the Monaco Grand Prix.

However the penalty has no effect on his position as Adrian Sutil behind him had been lapped.

It’s Hamilton’s third penalty of the weekend, following a drive-through penalty in the race and the deletion of his fastest time in qualifying.

Hamilton described the stewarding as “a joke” in an interview after the race.

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195 comments on “Hamilton given penalty for Maldonado collision”

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  1. Rubbish decision, he put the man out of the race, should have been given a proper penalty that affected his result, or given him a penalty for the next race. He has to learn that you cannot barge people off the road just because you feel you have a superior car to them. If he tried that move 10 years ago he would have ploughed into some armco on the inside of the corner.

    1. Had he done it 20 years ago, it would habe been like Senna did, and everybody would have applauded him.

      1. Agree, but–unfortunately–it’s 2011 ;)

      2. exactly. i honestly think people just wont let themselves like hamilton. its odd.

        people love schumacher despite him being a total a-hole on track, same for senna a few times tbh.

      3. Rubbish. People despised the way Senna took people out on occasion. Senna was a fast driver, but recently people have been looking at his career with rose coloured glasses. We want to see clean passing, controlled aggression, not hacking. Most of us are glad that type of nonsense has been removed from the sport.

      4. NO its ok now because senna is dead. know one wants talks bad of a dead man. senna was just as dirty as schumacher

      5. why,what did senna do @ monaco 91??? i thought he led from pole-flag?

    2. @sam3110

      The drive through was fine Rubens got the same for Nico in Aus and Vettel last year got the same on Button. Why do you think Lewis should get more when the accidents are similar?

      The irony of your statement is kinda funny, if Lewis tried that move 10 years ago he would of got no penalty and it would of been written down as racing incident.

      1. 100% just like schumies and sennas indiscretions 10 years ago.

      2. Then explain why Webber had no sanction in Australia 2010 or Singapore 2010 for the crashes with Lewis.

    3. good response, Hamilton is right, people moan because in F1 nobody overtakes and the FIA create this all sort of rules so there can be any action, but when a driver tries to do an attempt, he gets punished… it’s rubbish.
      We wanted some action? we got some action, now let them race!

      1. Hamilton is not right.

        There is overtaking, and then there is crashing. They are two different things.

        Lewis also needs to check again to see what classifies as a gap, because I checked those crashes again and not even a bike would have fit through those “gaps”.

        While he deserved worse, the officials were simply being consistent with their rulings, which is exactly what we asked of them.

        1. OK may be you should book in a class for the 2008 world champion to teach him what you recon is a gap for overtaking so that he will end up like you eventually! Job well done!

        2. infy, stop trolling around having digs at hamilton..

        3. I’d be interested to hear any views on the Maldonado incident, when compared to the earlier pass on Schumacher.

          First, the Maldonado incident:

          >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbwXSp7V0vw

          At around 11 seconds you can see they are side by side (Maldonado’s front wheels slightly ahead), and Maldonado turns in – seemingly without realising Hamilton is there.

          Next, the pass on Schumacher:

          >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdBgtFrXR44

          Again, at around 5 seconds you can see Hamilton on the inside, with Schumacher’s front wheels slightly ahead. Unlike Maldonado, Schumacher is aware of the situation and doesn’t turn in as early or sharply.

          Is there a difference between these incidents, or was Hamilton right / wrong to go for it on both occasions?

          To me, it boils down to how much responsibility is there on the driver in front / on the outside to be aware of the other car and react accordingly.

          1. Simon, I agree with what you have demonstrated.
            Moreover if you look at the massa incident, you will see that massa turn early ( cut off his racing line) whereas Ham is already in his inside. I think they should just let people racing rather than creating those artificial tool like DRS !!

          2. For me, this shows a Gp2 drive and a champion drive.

            You gota leave others some room, thats what all drivers do. Except Mal and massa.

            Did you see how button and hamilton fight for position? they left each other room. and thats what we want to see, and thats how the car should be driven!

          3. It is so clear to me that Maldonado did not leave any room for Hamilton. He cut straight across. Look at how schumacher drives, he turn and leave just enough room for another car there to avoid the accident.

            If you penalize Hamilton for the Mal contact, they should have done the same for the Schumacher overtake move.

            Same move, different opponent.

          4. Maldonado simply didn’t see Hamilton coming. He’s completely in the blind spot.

            The only way drivers can see the other cars is when they completely tilt their head to one side to check the mirror.

            If anything. FIA should make sure that the mirrors actually work.

            Hamilton was slightly further up on Schumacher, so Schumacher would have seen a wheel right next to him.

          5. Another incident to compare these to is Hamilton/Webber in Singapore 2010. Hamilton was ahead by a decent length (probly further than Maldonado was) and turned in, leaving a little room for Webber (considerably more then Maldonado left Hamilton). That was deemed a racing incident, and if I remember correctly, the majority deemed that to be Lewis’ mistake.

            With Massa… i’d be interested to know if Lewis would have still got a penalty had Massa not crashed through the tunnel. Maybe Lewis was a little to blame, but for me, as there was no change in position i would have deemed it a racing incident.

          6. You’re wrong my friend. Schumacher didn’t change his line. It was Lewis who went a little bit inside and avoided the accident. Wear your glasses before you can judge. Lewis is my favorite driver but today I think he drove like nobody else was on the track!

          7. @Nikos

            What on earth are you on about? Schumacher gave hamilton some room. Maldonado didn’t. If you thought hamilton went “a little bit inside” then what do you think he did in the maldonado incident? He was forced off the track!

          8. I’ve watched them closely now. The difference is that Maldonado is much further (about 1.5m) to the right just before the apex. He’s covered the line better. He’s also going a bit quicker than Schumacher was at the point of turn in (I assume because MS’ tyres were shot). From where Maldonado was, had he tried to pull out of the corner the way MS did he’d have ended up in the wall at corner exit.

            If Hamilton and Schumacher had come together it would have been a racing incident, but the incident with Maldonado was Hamilton’s fault because he didn’t take into account the car position or speed of his competitor.

          9. The difference is that Schumi respects the line whe he sees Hamilton starting the move and Maldonado doesn`t give that space to Lewis.
            Is the same at Loews. When Schumi overtakes Hamilton the British respect the line But Massa,despite having Webber in front, makes a move to the inside of the turn just to impede Hamilton’s move when he has started the overtake.
            Sorry for my English!!!

        4. then go and have your eyes tested before you look at that crash again.what the monkeys is wrong with you

          1. What about the move on Massa on the hairpin?

            Should he also give in the possition? Should racing be about leting space for the guy who is after me? or shuting the door?

    4. He gave schumacher plenty of room at the hairpin on lap 1. He could have just done what massa/maldonado did and drove into schumacher but he didn’t because he was aware schumacher was committed, and that is what massa/maldonado should have done.

      1. It’s weird to think that if Hamilton had simply turned in on Schumacher, Schumacher would have gotten the drive through.

        Totally bizarre way of stewarding.

        Either also give Schumacher a penalty for his overtakes in the chicane Hamilton or leave it as a racing incident when the cars do collide.

        The penalized Hamilton for Fuji 2008 when he missed his braking point, yet collided with noone.

        BTW what happened to the gentlemens agreement that you don’t turn in when the overtaking car has a front wheel in front of your rear wheel?

        Does that only apply to true gentlemen racers like Hamilton and Rosberg?

        1. This is what I don’t understand, Basically they are saying that if the driver in front turns in on you to cause a bump then you are need a penalty but if the driver in front drives properly then you are fine. Schumacher pulled exactly the same move as Hamilton and DiResta but because Massa purposefully turned in on Hamilton (Yes it was clearly on purpose which is why he ended up hitting Webber), Hamilton is considered to have caused an avoidable incident… Same with DiResta… very strange.

          1. Look at the replay. Webber was going wide and Massa was having a little look up the inside, hence the odd line. It doesn’t give Hamilton the right to barge into him

    5. I was saying during the race that he would need a drive-through to be properly penalised. 20s penalties rarely have any significant impact.

      1. Er, Spa 2008? That had an impact.

        I suspect you think 20s penalties are too lenient, except when you don’t.

      2. It’s 21s through the pit lane in Monaco. I doubt that extra second would have done much!

    6. The Massa penalty was fair. As I saw it, Hamilton was alongside Maldonao a reasonable amount when Maldonado turned in- Maldonado should have been aware a car was alongside him.

      I may be corrected if I see another angle of it however.

      1. I agree, the Massa penalty was correct, against Maldonado it was a racing incident.

        Having said that, if Hamilton had turned in on Schumacher at the chicane, instead of leaving him room, what would the stewards have said then? It’s a matter of perspective in some of these tight situations.

      2. Massa clearly turned in on purpose at the chicane. Massa hit webber as a consequence.

  2. There’s the exclamation point to his worst weekend.

  3. webber did the same thing last year in singapore to hamilton and has he been given a penalty? no !!!
    Lewis is number 1 !! Lewis GO GO !

    1. Exactly!!!!!!! What the hell is wrong with the FIA?? Seriously, I am really sick of it. And who are they who were making the decision?? I have seen the incident a few times, clearly nothing Hamilton could of done to avoid it! It was a fair move!
      Seriously…. They just dont want to see a black guy win. Very simple. Lets be honest.

      1. stop playing the race card – it is a ludicrous argument

        1. + 1.

          The amount of people posting idiotic statements is at an all time high recently!

      2. i think that the race card is the worst thing to pull in any situation, (im a hamilton fan before anyone asks) it just de values any arguments that you made before, and its stupid!

      3. Come on, if they wanted to get rid of him, they wound’t have opted for a punishment that has no effect at all ! A grid penalty for next race would have been harsh. This is, in effect, a non-penalty.

    2. The incident in Singapore ’10 was solely Hamilton’s fault. He was trying to take Webber on the outside and he didn’t apply the brakes in time. Webber had the line and the pace.

      1. Well there I have to disagree. LH had already made the pass on Webber at Singapore, Webber tried to get back down the inside, didn’t have enough overlap and just drop-kicked him. This followed earlier cases (like twice in Melbourne) where Webber took LH off with simple errors, the second one ending his race, and didn’t get any penalty for doing so.

        I was OK with the Singapore thing being judged just a racing incident on a restart but, that being the case, then there was no reason to assess a penalty in the Maldonado case. As they came into Ste Devote it was very similar positioning to LH’s earlier pass on Schumacher, there certainly was a gap, but Maldonado shut the door much earlier and more aggressively than Schumacher did. End of. This is fine with me, he can defend how he wants, but it was his risk and there’s no need for the stewards to get involved.

        No problem with a penalty in the Massa case, as it was a little optimistic at Loews and De Resta got one for the same thing, but the stewards are still being trigger-happy in general, as we saw in Malaysia where the penalties on both Alonso and Hamilton were ridiculous. I think these guys just feel they have to do something sometimes, so we know they’re there.

        Let’s face it, at Monaco, ANY pass can be judged ill-advised so they should arguably all just follow each other round and you could put “no overtaking” signs up all around the circuit.

        I agree with those saying it’s a question of philosophy and consistency. Either you want overtaking in F1 or you don’t, and the gap between an OK pass and an avoidable collision is far too narrow at the moment, too arbitrarily judged, not consistently judged and always with the comfortable benefit of hindsight by people in suits – it’s just saying “only have a go when you’re 100.0% certain you can make the pass” and it mitigates against the one thing the sport has been trying to achieve all these years. At Monaco especially – as you saw when Schumacher passed Hamilton – passes are only made when there’s a level of co-operation from the guy being passed. There are still plenty of cases of drivers “closing the stable door after the horse has bolted” but the stewards have a tendency to rule that the quicker guy should have just sat in the queue and not done anything, and it’s never the fault of the guy doing the blocking.

        We need to recognize that sometimes if you put a bunch of guys in a broom cupboard with 700 horsepower each, mix them up and tell them to race, some of them actually will and they won’t always agree. There’s such a thing as a racing incident and I’m personally glad that some drivers, like Hamilton and Schumacher today, are prepared to have a go.

        1. Let’s face it, at Monaco, ANY pass can be judged ill-advised so they should arguably all just follow each other round and you could put “no overtaking” signs up all around the circuit.

          Best comment of the day.

          1. Yeah, he knocked AndreTanner’s BS straight out of the park.

            Brilliant how haters like that can simply override their hypocrisy sensors and post such nonsense.

        2. Very well judged comment.

        3. if this isn’t comment of the day it will be more of a farce than Lewis’ penalty. Not just comment of the day, but the best comment i think i’ve ever read on this site

        4. The Last Pope
          29th May 2011, 22:38

          Sean, can you become a race steward and teach them stuff please. Really don’t know what help McNish was.

        5. Amen

        6. COTD Sean,it cant have been better said

        7. So the ex-driver on the panel is a person in a suit?

  4. If it is effectless penalty, I think it’d rather a penalty for next race.

  5. James Williams
    29th May 2011, 17:46

    He should have been DSQ. He took someone out. The stewards gave him a penalty therefore he is the one to blame for the accident. Yet he gets off with nothing. Again.

    Some argue that it’s racing, drivers should be encouraged to go for the overtake. But not like that & especially in Monaco.

    He got screwed over in qualifying due to Perez being hospitalised. Then the race gets red flagged as Petrov gets taken to hospital. What will it take to make Mr Hamilton absorb that information into this thick head of his.

    Two drivers in hospital Lewis, was he looking to make it three?

    1. No, he was trying to overtake and nobody was at risk. Calm down, it’s safe to go outside, OK?

    2. He did not take him out. He obviously turn in too early to defend. Lack of experience. All his own fault. Hamilton made a nice move. FIA should not interfere.

      1. James Williams
        29th May 2011, 17:58

        Obviously he did since he was given a 20 second penalty. The stewards decision is the one that’s right at the end of the day. If they say he was to blame, he was to blame.

      2. he was too far back to overtake – he should have known it was only ever going to end in contact. It was very similar to Barrichello and Rosberg in Australia. What happened there???

    3. Wow, idiotic statement of the year right there. You make it sound like Hamilton was deliberately trying to cause crashes, do you really think that…really? No driver wants to see others crash because they all know how dangerous the sport is as we’ve seen this weekend, but to take the instinct to go for an overtake away from a driver would be to remove the essence of motor racing.

    4. He should have been DSQ. He took someone out. The stewards gave him a penalty therefore he is the one to blame for the accident. Yet he gets off with nothing. Again.

      Not a Hamfan, but technically, Alonso got off with nothing (even with 20 sec penalty) in Sepang while Hamilton got penalised.

    5. slackbladd3r
      29th May 2011, 18:33

      Oh please. I’m no fan of sore Lewser in general, but “taking someone out” intentionally is a pretty exact science if you don’t want to go down with the driver you’re targeting. As evidenced by today’s race, it takes very little contact for critical parts of the car to break into shards at the same time as driving at those speeds isn’t exactly figure skating. Hamilton may have been the actor here, but only luck saved him from ruining his own race the way he ruined Maldonado’s.

      Hamilton has been punished for his dumb move – and perhaps rightfully so – but to claim that this was anything but a racing situation is just silly. Only in hockey can you aim to actually hurt. ;)

      1. James Williams
        29th May 2011, 20:02

        I didn’t claim it was intentional.

        1. slackbladd3r
          29th May 2011, 20:26

          Two drivers in hospital Lewis, was he looking to make it three?

          You certainly implied it.

    6. Watch the video plz. You’re just a hater. To overtake at Monoco drivers have to be very innovative and that’s what Lewis did. In my books, he’s a class driver and now he’s being punished for it. Lewis did not turn into the other cars, they colided with him, instead, did his best to avoid the oncomming cars. Go lewis go, 100% for giving a show when Pirelli failed the fans.

  6. the whining is working

  7. He needs a mini vacation and to come back strong for Canada! It was a nightmare for him. Everything went wrong today. His comments won’t help either.

    1. If he cant win in Canada with a car that history had shown is the fastest on that track, then he needs to go back to school.

      1. Lol look who’s talking…So many experts in here!!!! Would love to see you in that car.

      2. They have a new car every year.

  8. that was an unnecessary overtake.

    1. Unnecessary? you joking?

      1. yeah it was. it led to a collision?

      2. The Last Pope
        29th May 2011, 22:43

        Didn’t you know? You get the most points for coming last now.

    2. yes, next time he and the others should stick to processional racing….. not

      1. you saying it’s completely okay to drive into other people and throw them off track just cause one has a faster car? seriously?

        1. its difficault to draw the line but I would rather see racing then bahrain 2010

  9. McLaren simply need to stop putting him in these situations other races it doesn’t show to much but in Monaco its just amplified.

    Everything about the steward, Mclaren and certain drivers defensive skills are just wrong

    1. 1) Dont blame the team for something that the driver could have prevented.

      2) There is nothing wrong with the other drivers defensive skills. The only way Lewis was getting passed was if the other drivers literally pulled over for him.

      3) Stewards were simply being consistent. Thats what we asked for.

      1. 1) yes drivers have their input but some drivers will mostly take team view because they have more information available

        2) Yes their is you cant simply try to defend a position by turning in on another driver. If Lewis, Rosberg and Schumi can race hard without trying to squeeze people off the track then so can drivers like Maldonado, Massa and Webber for that case.

        3) the only thing steward consistently do is meddle most of the time. Sometimes a racing incident is a racing incident.

        4) Did you want to leave me any other bullet points?

        1. A bullet point looks like this: •

          1. @infy: hahaha! =))

            infy is right btw, charlie.

            1) I really doubt mclaren said, “TILL DEATH!” to lewis which made him to go kamikaze.

            2) Monaco is not an overtaking track. Everyone knows that. It’s a track popular for driving as close as possible to the wall. You cant just try a move anywhere on the track and expect it to stick. If that were the case, they wouldnt call monaco a non-overtaking track.

            3) Frankly, I knew lewis would do something like that with only 6 laps of the race remaining. M actually surprised he didnt do the same on kobayashi.

          2. @Hatebreeder

            1) I am not aware he went kamikaze…

            2) Lets ban overtaking at monaco then. Although Schumacher managed to give Hamilton room to in the same place as Maldonado didn’t. Plus Hamilton and Rosberg gave Schumacher room at the hairpin. Basically what the stewards are saying is that it is only a penalty if the driver in front turns in on you… Do you think Schumacher should have got a penalty for his pass on lewis? How about if instead of giving him room, lewis turned in on him, would that have been a penalty?

            3)Lewis is a racing driver and was also astonishingly quick, surely we want to see drivers at least attempting to overtake, otherwise lets scrap Monaco as it would not be a race once qualy is over.

  10. I personally think Hamilton should have been black flagged. Repeat offenders should have more severe penalties.

    1. Im guessing you follow the Red Bulls?

      1. Guess again.

      2. Alonso is my favourite driver, though I wouldn’t describe myself as “anti-Hamilton”. I have great respect for Hamilton’s abilities in the car, but today he was awful in my opinion.

        1. Me too, I really appreciate Lewis but he was too arrogant today!

        2. Same here. I’m an Alonso fan but I do respect Lewis as a driver. Today, Lewis drove like a hooligan. He expected everyone to just give up their position for him, no one is expected to put up a fight for their position. Overtaking in Monaco is hard, and honestly Lewis never set himself up in a good enough, or legitimate, overtaking position. He expected people to just conceded the fight because he was on supersofts and was lapping quicker.

          I’m actually disappointed about him receiving a useless 20 sec penalty. I think he deserved a black flag for his driving today, or maybe a 10 place grid penalty for Canada.

    2. You have no idea do you? I just don’t understand your mentality.

      1. I have an idea, it’s just different to yours ;)

        1. :-P yeah the penalty didnt really change anything.

  11. I think Hamilton’s move was legitimate.

    1. I think the stewards thought otherwise.

  12. I’m guessing at another penalty before Canada.
    I don’t think you’re allowed to bring the sport into disrepute by “Jokingly” accusing the race stewards of racism.

    I might be wrong, but I can see some backlash after the dust settles.

    1. georges10099
      29th May 2011, 17:58

      i hope nto, maybe theyll just give him a ticking off as otehr people have done stuff like that previously…

    2. georges10099
      29th May 2011, 17:59

      i hope not, maybe theyll just give him a ticking off as other people have done stuff like that previously…

    3. Hopefully he is taught a lesson and a precedent is set. Playing the race card is unacceptable.

    4. Playing the “race card” is patently offensive … and WAY out of line! I was startled … but not surprised … takes no responsibility for his actions, unless, of course, it is a victory! Quite the sulky fellow, Ham is.

      Perhaps the Japanese, India, Hispanic drivers are experiencing similar bias by white-bread officials … too.

    5. funny he still hasnt asked for a black member in the stewards team. he will soon, probably.

      1. I hope he gets it. Then he cant use the race card again.

    6. Interesting debate. And very sad situation developing.

      Perhaps some people who recently became very close to Hamilton are feeding him the classic ‘race oppression’ line he now seems to have adopted. He never seemed to think like that
      before, and the change will damage him if he persists. With a staggering talent such as his, he does not need to play the race card.

    7. every driver has horrible weekends and every driver gets caught up in the moment, forget about it and move on.

  13. I know lets just ban overtaking altogether shall we, it too dangerous?????????? A good driver would see him coming and NOT turn in END OF STORY, Hamilton will go for a gap if one appears thats what makes him a great driver to watch.

    This weekend all went wrong for him by stayin in too long in Q3, should have mirrored the competition and got a banker lap in at the beginning, McLaren were trying to be a bit too conservative with the tyres and ultimately set the ball rolling downhill from that point, that said though its just bad luck, the team never knew Perez was going to have an off and bring the red flags out!!!!!

    1. I know lets just allow drivers to ram into other cars???????????????? Good drivers must see him and then let him passed?!!@?#!?

      This is racing. If every driver simply moved out of the way then it would be qualifying.

  14. You know what guys. It’s really tough for Hamilton. Lets put ourselves in his shoes. He always gets into penalties but yet he had made the best and the most overtaking maneuvers. It’s a privilege to have him in F1!

  15. I’ve not studied the replays over and over, but to me it seems the difference between Hamilton’s pass on Schumacher and Hamilton’s pass on Maldonado was that Maldonado turned in, whereas Schumacher didn’t. But like I say I’ve not fully made my mind up on this one.

    1. Of course you haven’t.

    2. It’s becoming a joke now that almost any overtaking move that ends in contact results in a penalty. It’s become the same in supposed “contact” sports such as football where almost every tackle seemingly results in a yellow card. Sometimes there are accidents that come about because of an overtake, it’s not deliberate and is part of the sport, hence the word accident.

      So while Bernie comes up with hair-brained schemes such as artificial rain the so called referee’s punish drivers who try to entertain by racing. It’s something that has to be sorted out otherwise it will force previously loyal F1 to lose interest.

      1. Being late on a tackle and trashing a leg is an accident. But it’s a yellow card at least.

        Why Ham has so many more “accidents” and punishments that Buton? He takes more chances, he has more “accidents” he is the one usually punished. that’s it.

        And driving is not a “contact” sport

    3. I think the Maldonado incident was more borderline of Lewis’s two penalised incidents. Massa had nowhere available to go, he was up the inside of Webber at the time, and Lewis tried to make it a 3 car sandwich. The Maldonado pass was borne out of frustration. Yes, a more experienced driver would have given Lewis space (like Schu did). But a more experienced driver would have realised that there was a good chance the rookie wouldn’t give you space, and back out when he saw Pastor turn in (like Button would have).

      Having penalised DiResta and Lewis earlier in the race for similarly over-optimistic moves, the stewards had to rule against him to maintain consistency. Frustrating for Lewis, but if anything, Button should be fuming at his team-mate for bringing out the safety car when he was about to sail away into the distance and win.

      1. The stewards should not have penalised DiResta for that tiny tap. It left them no choice for every other move in the race.

    4. Yeh, a similar pass was made by Schumacher in the first lap at Hair pin. Hamilton was wise enough not to turn into the 7 times champion. The thing is, they are racing drivers, we are talking about the best of the best drivers. Check your blind spot guys.

      I would say Maldonado illegal defense was made. As for Massa. I think its time for him to retired. He is unfit! Look at him, he was so slow and seriously why would you want to ruin antoher decent driver’s race? He out do himselves in the tunnel. If he had let Hamtilton pass at the hair pin, he wouldnt have to crash.

      1. from hamilton’s view its looks like Massa’s job was to stop Hamilton for Alonso’s gain.

        1, pull out of the pits in Q3 in his way
        2, hold him up/crash into him in the race.

        1. Were you even following the race? Lewis was not racing against Alonso. Massa was racing Lewis.

          1. Do you not follow f1? Alonso and Massa are on the same team, Team Alonso. (see germany 2010)

          2. Yes but even if Massa didnt get in the way AT ALL, Lewis still would not have been fighting against Alonso for 2nd place.

        2. Actually, since you have said that. It might be true. I mean, look at what Nelson.P did for Alonso back in Renault. And with the “Alonso is faster than you! Do you understand the message?” incident, anything could happen! Thats why they want to keep Massa! You can’t have 2 champions in a team anyway!
          Nice point Joseph.
          We will never know. I believe it is possible for the Qualifying but race, unlikely, Lewis was too far back.

    5. It’s simple really: Massa seldom cedes. And particularly to Hamilton. Compare Hamilton: he seldom risks a collision like this when challenged. For that reason, I’d put this down as a ‘racing incident’ which shouldn’t have been penalized. Meanwhile Massa’s block on Hamilton during quali was blindingly obvious. But we’re indeed drifting to 2008 again – I wonder whether McClaren aren’t aggressive enough in their ‘complaints procedure’ under Whitmarsh.

      1. Or they did it too often and now the Stewards dont take them seriously.

        1. What compared to Ferrari, for example? Even now Massa is calling for *more* punishment for Hamilton, he’s so used to FIA helping him out. I think McLaren basically gave up.

          1. Your comment about Massa would make sense if the FIA didnt ignore him as well.

      2. Whitmarsh is a goose. We need Ron back!

  16. To be honest with you I think Lewis is a great driver, maybe the best of his generation. But there’s a big problem today. He was way too aggressive. Ok, I understand the fact that he was faster than Massa and Maldonado on both incidents but if you can’t pass you just don’t hit the other cars. Hamilton was very lucky today. He could have set himself out of the race too. These moves don’t show ability & speed but immaturity & despair. He’s not going to win the champion this year & that’s it. I mean poor Maldonado made a great race today, he deserved some points for his team. Why being so arrogant Lewis? I don’t understand you…

    1. what part do you not understand ?

      that he had the car and pace for pole on saturday ,but the engineers and strategists who are much smarter than him prescribe a one lap run !.

      or the fact that it is frustrating to be so much faster but be stuck behind slower cars just because overtaking is impossible.

      1. Being frustrated does not give you the right to ram into people.

      2. If overtaking is impossible, do you imply that he did wrong forcing it?

      3. I agree that he was faster “curedcat” but being faster doesn’t always make you a winner too y’know? The only explanation I can give is that he was desperately fighting to catch Vettel on the battle for the championship. Today he was playing Russian Roulette at the Monaco and he actually won. But Russian Roulette is a dirty game & I don’t like dirty games at all…especially when someone plays with lesser bullets ;)

    2. Good post Nikos.

    3. Hey Nikos,

      why did you think that Hamilton crashed into others?? I mean after singapore last year, I am sure he knows the consequences of having contact with other cars…. Lewis did not intentionally hit other cars.
      1st Massa incident, Massa should have given up the position at that point or at least run wide to avoid contact. Hamilton was already there. And Massa was way too slow.

      Maldonado, It was so obvious that he turned in earlier than the previous lap. The only explanation was a defensive move, and which caused the contact. He shouldnt have done that.

      1. Look guys, let’s all agree to this: Lewis is a top class driver! If he had a Red Bull this year he would’ve been in the place of Vettel right now. But he was too aggressive for Monaco’s circuit. He played with fire & he should be very pleased with his position today. End of the story, cheers!

    4. I don’t believe its the drivers fault unless we want to watch 78 laps of one car following another, F1 has out-grown Monaco, you can’t pass on the corners because two cars cannot fit along side each other and if you want to overtake by stepping off-line on the straights then you will hit the marbles and then the wall!

    5. Because he has not grown up. You have similar driver,same age and talent but never behave the way he did today. A good racing driver would have done it in an elegant way without causing any incident at all. He lacks judgement and maturity and he deserves a more severe penalty for his stupidity and coments he made.

  17. Hamilton referred to the whole thing as a “joke”.
    Every time he barges someone off the race track he ends up getting these “seconds off” penalties which coincidentally never have any effect whatsoever on his race finish position….that IS a joke. Agree with slr, nick, james williams and the others, he should have been black flagged….repeat offenders like him should be dealt with in a more severe manner and they should definitely ban these silly “seconds off” penalties, as the top 3 teams will always be many seconds in front of the smaller teams and never loose any places. At the end of the day Massa had to retire due to Hamiltons recklessness (the damage on Massas car from the hairpin incident made his car undrivable and ended up on the marbles), and Pastor Maldonado had to retire due to Hamiltons recklessness. I reckon Hamilton should take a leaf out of Paul di Restas book—–same corner, same incident, Paul put his hands up after the race and duly apologised…like Martin Brundle quoted in the forum “it cant always be everybodys elses fault”

    1. alright then ,so because it is hamilton he should get harsher penalties huh . Kinda funny that people would rather praise you when you are dead . People like you will join in praising senna as a great ,if not the greatest driver ,but you would have criticised him if he were alive .

      1. You cant compare the two. Lewis is not a great.

        1. He may not be…. however he is a racing champion!! Doesn’t that take GREAT skill?

      2. Good one.
        infy: Lewis is great. He is probably the best drive on grid today.
        I am sure many would agree.
        infy: if you no longer go for the gap, you are not racing.

        I acknoledge that Hamilton was aggressive, but not in manner need to get a black flag. The move on Massa and Maldonado was genuine like the one on Schumacher. It comes down to how the driver in front defend. Its like the insurance company saying that the car behind is always at fault.

        The Black flag should be given to Paul di Resta. He made a mistake and caused 2 cars to crashed out, 1 injured driver and a badly damaged wing. If he hadnt make the move out of the tunnel.

        Guys, thats racing! I think steward should stop interfering, just let the guys race! Noone want to hit anyway considering how fragile these racing cars are! Massa, he wasnt going to win anyway, Maldonado, if he was wise enough to give some room, he wouldnt ended up where he did.

        Again back my very original point. If the steward try to be fair to everyone and extended the Quaifying session to compensate the lost of time for some of the guys on hot lap, fast car wont ended up starting behind the slow ones. Once things goes wrong on Saturday, its like a chain reaction. End of story.

  18. I think it has been clear that Hamilton models himself after Senna. Following Senna’s advice, why would he have done any different?

    “By being a racing driver means you are racing with other people. And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, competing to win.”

    Hamilton’s motive is not cynical. He is not intentionally trying to take people out of the race. It his attitude that makes F1 exciting, just as racers like Senna, Mansell, Montoya and Gilles Villeneuve did before him.

    1. While that’s a great quote said by a great driver, it is not entirely realistic.

      Great drivers know when to take advantage of “gaps”. Going for ever gap you ever see is in really very stupid.

  19. “If you no longer go for a gap you are no longer a racing driver” from agruebly the greatest driver of them all…..

    1. Well quoted.

  20. (First post, go easy on me)

    Question: What is the official stance on the legitimacy of overtaking into a corner? Is my understanding correct, that unless the driver behind gets in before the driver ahead turns in (eg HAM front right level with Massa/Maldanado rear left??), he has to back off?
    Which parts of the cars have to be aligned?

    1. georges10099
      29th May 2011, 18:30

      i dont know. tbh in terms of the maldonado and hamilton one mal should have given the position up as hamilton had the momentum – its just like the one earlier with shu and ham

      1. If half the comments here is “Ham has the right to challenge”, and the other half is “Ham is endangering others” clearly the rules need clarification.

        I think the onus is on BOTH drivers to avoid contact. So if you’re in a clearly slower car it’s better to lose the position than be put out of the race. No point parking your slower car where someone else will hit you and then crying foul.

        Let the drivers race. Most people here would agree that the 2 Ham/MSc moves were good racing. Because the two drivers had a mutual understanding on the limit of sensibility. They both knew when to back out.

        In the case of Mas/Ham its just unfortunate that Massa had nowhere to go. It’s either Ham or Web he’s going to have to run into. Racing incident I say.

    2. To get right of way, you need to be a car-length ahead in the braking zone.

      1. Thanks. I can’t wait to see the bbc replay tonight.

      2. Welcome to the dream world of infy

      3. It’s not the matter of car length away. When you are racing at that speed, and especially in Monaco, you dont measure. All you do is react wisely. When you see a drunk driver on the road in front of your car, driving erratically, do you simply drive normally and pass him? or do you try to avoid him? It is your choice.

        When someone is passing you, or you knew he was going to pass you, you give them room, while try not to loose anytime. Schumie gave us a good example. Thats how you should race. Be fair to each other, there arent enough room in Monaco. Maldonado should learn a lesson. I think if he has s choice now, I am sure he rater settle 7th than to cut people off. Its not GP2 !

        I have reviewed many different overtaking moves at turn 1 from previous footage, all give small room to the overtaking drivers, thats fair racing isn’t it?

        And can I have the name of the steward by the way? I want to know which idiot it was up there !

    3. Not necessary.
      Look at Alonso’s move on Webber in 2008.

      HE was well behind webber, but Webber was wise enough to let him go to avoid an accident. Webber could of done what Maldonado did to Hamilton.

      We need some consistency here.

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