Sebastian Vettel’s assault on the F1 records

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Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, Valencia, 2011

Sebastian Vettel has been dubbed ‘baby Schumi’ by some. And he shows every sign of rivalling Schumacher’s record-smashing feats.

After a scorching start to the season, Vettel is rapidly making inroads into F1’s all-time records for wins, pole positions and more.

And he’s already already the youngest driver to win a championship, a race, score a point and set pole position.

Most wins

Just 73 races into his F1 career, Vettel is already equal 14th on the all-time list of winners. He’s tied with Lewis Hamilton, who has started nine more races.

Schumacher’s 91 wins towers over the rest but what’s even more impressive about that record is the strike rate.

DriverWins%
1Michael Schumacher9132.62
2Alain Prost5125.63
3Ayrton Senna4125.47
4Nigel Mansell3116.58
5Jackie Stewart2727.27
6Fernando Alonso2715.98
7Jim Clark2534.72
8Niki Lauda2514.62
9Juan Manuel Fangio2447.06
10Nelson Piquet2311.27
11Damon Hill2219.13
12Mika Hakkinen2012.42
13Kimi Raikkonen1811.54
14Stirling Moss1624.24
15Sebastian Vettel1621.92
16Lewis Hamilton1619.51
17Graham Hill148.00
18Jack Brabham1411.38
19Emerson Fittipaldi149.72
20Alberto Ascari1340.63
21David Coulthard135.28

Schumacher won almost one-third of the races he started, a record which has taken a knock since his win-less comeback. Vettel’s strike rate is 21.92%, which underlines just how hard it would be to match Schumacher’s record.

He would need both a superior car and a weaker opposition to match Schumacher’s tally in the same kind of time frame. But when it comes to hitting that all-time figure, Vettel has the advantage of youth on his side.

Most podiums

Vettel isn’t the only current driver who’s showing well on the list of most podium finishes.

Fernando Alonso and Hamilton also feature highly on the list. It’s a testament not just to their skill as drivers, but also the benefit of spending several season in reasonably competitive cars, and the ever-improving reliability we see in F1 today.

DriverPodiums%
1Michael Schumacher15455.2
2Alain Prost10653.27
3Ayrton Senna8049.69
4Fernando Alonso6940.83
5Rubens Barrichello6821.59
6David Coulthard6225.2
7Kimi Raikkonen6239.74
8Nelson Piquet6029.41
9Nigel Mansell5931.55
10Niki Lauda5431.58
11Mika Hakkinen5131.68
12Gerhard Berger4822.86
13Carlos Reutemann4530.82
14Jackie Stewart4343.43
15Damon Hill4236.52
16Lewis Hamilton4048.78
17Riccardo Patrese3714.45
18Graham Hill3620.57
19Jenson Button3618.00
20Juan Manuel Fangio3568.63
21Emerson Fittipaldi3524.31
22Denny Hulme3329.46
23Jody Scheckter3329.46
24Felipe Massa3322.92
25Jim Clark3244.44
26Jacques Laffite3218.18
27Jean Alesi3215.92
28Jack Brabham3125.2
29Juan Pablo Montoya3031.91
30Sebastian Vettel2939.73

Schumacher leads the list, of course, but hasn’t added to his tally of 154 since returning to F1 at the beginning of last year.

Most pole positions

For Vettel, two changes in F1 coincided perfectly to make him the modern master of the pole position.

The first is, obviously, the superior one-lap pace of the recent Red Bulls. He and team mate Mark Webber have been first on the grid for each of the last 12 races.

But another key factor here is the ban on refuelling at the beginning of last year. This meant drivers in the top ten no longer had to qualify with their race fuel loads.

Thanks to that, we’ve seen a return to proper, low-fuel qualifying laps. It’s an area where Webber previously excelled, but his team mate has proven a formidable opponent.

Last year the margin between the two was often very tight – in the region of a tenth of a second at many tracks. This year Vettel has tended to have the upper hand, though Webber has gradually chipped away at his advantage since the beginning of the season.

Even so, the numbers speak for themselves: Vettel has been on pole position in 18 out of 30 races since the beginning of last season. He is already among the top ten drivers to have set the most pole positions:

DriversPoles%
1Michael Schumacher6824.37
2Ayrton Senna6540.37
3Jim Clark3345.83
4Alain Prost3316.58
5Nigel Mansell3217.11
6Juan Manuel Fangio2956.86
7Mika Hakkinen2616.15
8Niki Lauda2414.04
9Nelson Piquet2411.76
10Sebastian Vettel2331.51

His strike rate may not be up there with the likes of Ayrton Senna, Jim Clark or Juan Manuel Fangio, but it is comfortably better than that of the current ultimate record holder. It’s quite possible Vettel could move up to sixth on this list by the end of the year.

‘Youngest ever’ records

Last year Vettel claimed the record for being the youngest ever world champion off Hamilton.

That completed the set for him – he is the youngest driver to score a point (the only teenager to do so), and the youngest driver to claim pole position and win a race:

RecordAgeRaceNext on list
Youngest point-scorer19 years, 345 days2007 United States Grand PrixJaime Alguersuari
Youngest pole sitter21 years, 73 days2008 Italian Grand PrixFernando Alonso
Youngest race winner21 years, 74 days2008 Italian Grand PrixFernando Alonso
Youngest world champion23 years, 134 days2010 Abu Dhabi Grand PrixLewis Hamilton

With a long-term Red Bull contract in his pocket and Adrian Newey set to remain at the team for the foreseeable future, Vettel’s ascent through the history books could prove very rapid indeed. He’s also passed the mark of 1,000 laps led.

Do you expect Vettel’s streak of success to continue? What other records could he break?

And which drivers are best-placed to stop him? Have your say in the comments.

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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171 comments on “Sebastian Vettel’s assault on the F1 records”

  1. I expect McLaren and Ferrari to be far stronger next year and we have seen in recent races that when they are Lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button and Fernando Alonso simply shine.

    I also hope that with the reversion to no exhaust blowing for 2012 that Webber will return to matching Sebastian (maybe even beating him far more often).

    The list of drivers that will cull this success?
    Fernando Alonso
    Lewis Hamilton
    Jenson Button
    Mark Webber
    Sergio Perez
    Daniel Ricciardo.

    1. Don’t forget Kobayashi!!

      Not to mention Michael Schumacher, he seems to be smashing into everyone these days…

    2. And, i sincerely hope, Robert Kubica.

      1. Definitely Kubica, but not if he sticks with Renault. I hope he replaces Massa at Ferrari, which will result in an utopian driver selection: Alonso and Kubica. That will be a threat to Vettel!

        1. Then Red Bull has to scout Hamilton or Mclaren vice versa! :)

          1. Red Bull would scout Jenson, because of his attitude, he doesn’t fight teammates.

          2. It would be good too, well, bad for Mclaren though.

        2. keep dreaming.
          Perez will replace massa at ferrari, in 2012 or 2013.
          Kubica is not going to make it in f1, may be in rally or nascar.

        3. Alonso and Kubica vs. Vettel and Hamilton? This would be a killer.

        4. Alonso and Kubica at Ferrari? Not a hope in hell… It’d work better if Alonso moved to Red Bull after Webber’s retirement, and having Kubica and Massa at Ferrari.. Massa is a great driver, but fails to get the team behind him in the way Alonso does..

          Of course, my plan does involve having Vettel and Alonso in the same team, but it’s only theoretical! Maybe Ricciardo could move up to Red Bull and Vettel could replace Schumi at Team Germany.. Oops, Mercedes..

          At the moment, we’ve got 24 great drivers, I’d be happy if nothing changes in the driver market for 2012

    3. The only way Mclaren will be stronger next season is if they work off the current car, which won’t happen due to the rule changes and the last time Ferrari started the season with a competitive car was 2007? Newvey and RedBull are tied together for at least 2 more seasons. With Vettel at the wheel, watch the cookie crumble.

      1. I don’t really agree with this. The regulations are staying pretty much the same apart from the exhaust blown diffusers, which is widely regarded as one of the key areas of the RB6/7 performance advantage.
        RBR optimised their EBD, or at least extracted more from it during 2010. Ferrari and Mclaren are just about maximising theirs. With the addition of the ‘off-throttle’ engine modes introduced this season RBR beat everyone to the jump again, but once again Ferrari and Mclaren have updated and bridged the gap.

        Only one win from 5 races for Red Bull is indicative of the changing trend. It will be very interesting to see what happens after the break, to see if RBR can bring some more performance to the car. The championships may be over but the rest of the season could potentially see Ferrari and Mclaren dominance.

        With many F1 teams stating that updates to this years car will carry through to next year, there is a small chance that Ferrari and Mclaren will match or beat Red Bull straight away in 2012.

    4. I also hope that with the reversion to no exhaust blowing for 2012 that Webber will return to matching Sebastian (maybe even beating him far more often).

      I doubt that- Vettel is a young driver who is still improving, much like Lewis Hamilton. That’s why he matched Vettel in 2009, and has fallen away over 2010 (only beating Vettel in 6 races all year) and 2011 (1 race this year). Mark is very unliely to match Vettel over the course of a season like in 2009 again.

      1. I see Webber finished more races ahead than Vettel in 2009 (9 to 8). But Vettel got more poles, wins and points than Webber that year. So I wouldn’t say Webber matched him that year.

        1. Thanks for that rfs :) That further reinforces the point that Vettel simply always beats Mark.

      2. I dont think hamilton has matched his first season, in terms of consistant speed with few errors.

        1. true, hamiltons racecraft has gone backwards, while vettels has gone forward. vettel is making the best of the machinery he has, while last year hamilton had a chance at the title before crashing in 2 vital races, and this year has continued the erratic results.

    5. Quite a bit of wishful thinking there methinks. Webber’s technique matches the EBD better when used without overrun. That requires a lot of very late apexing. But with EBD overrun, or completely without, the balance returns to normal and the advantage (in terms of technique) goes right back into Vettel’s court.

  2. He looks set to beat Alonso’s record for youngest double world champion and back to back world champion. With 25 points for a win, and him scoring over 450 points in the last 18 months, he’s set to beat Schumacher’s total for most points too…

    1. Everyone looks to beat Schumachers most points becasue of the massive change.

      When you get 2.5 times the points for a win and you get points for finishing 10th, and 20 races in a season it’s a lot easier to rack up the points than before

      1. That’s why on Wikipedia’s F1 Records page the points are divided in pre-2010 and post-2009.

        1. These points stats should only really be percentage of season points due to the large differences from 09 to 10.

          Still with one 4th and all the rest 1st and 2nds, I imagine he’d be up there in most points taken in a season.

    2. Not only youngest WDC and this year the youngest double WDC. Within 6 years he can become the youngest triple WDC, replacing Senna at the top of the list. He has 6 years to make it happen, Alonso has to do it next year to be youngest triple WDC

  3. also It’s almost certain he would be youngest double champion. Alonso has very slim chance to become youngest triple champion chance because Aytron Senna is current one and he was 31 when he became triple champ. Now Alonso turned to 30, so next year is his last chance. Hamilton has about 5 years, Vettel has about 7 years. Well, I’m not please with Vettel’s record streak :P

    1. He seems more and more like a Villneuve, Hill or even Piquet style champion… best car not the best teammates and ka boom.

      Would be sad/funny to see him be a double world championa nd then beaten by others. Wont happen though only those gone through the Red Bull program will be his teammates

      1. Webber’s not exactly a pushover… 9 times out of 10 you need to be in the best car to be the Champion. The last time I recall this not occuring was 1994 where Schumacher best the dented Willamses in his less-competitive Benneton…

        1. .. well, less competitive, but lot more illegal, no? Those Benetton starts were all “not normal”, and almost everybody knows that including Ayrton, Damon, Nigel, and so on .. oh, I almost forgot, Flavio, ahahahahah

          1. Luckily, Schumacher returned with a vengeance in 1995, to annihilate Damon and the rest.

        2. Exactly. Think how highly rated Webber is and he’s been trounced this year.

          The Red Bull hasn’t been that dominant this year, if you look at Webber’s positions he’s been on similar often slower pace than Ferrari and McLaren.

          1. it’s because people like him. So they rate him better.

          2. Haven’t been that dominant? Currently 1st and 2nd in the drivers standings, and first in the constructers standings. The results suggest dominance.

        3. imo Hamilton became champion in the second best car in 2008..

      2. Remember Villeneuve? After a great start to his career he went nowhere, although he could have been much more succesfull. So it’s not certain Vettel will have an easy path to glory.

        1. I still think Villneuve was somewhat flattered by his car at the time. His attitude stank as well which makes it much more difficult to keep yourself occupied during the lean years.

        2. A good point there. We all thought Alonso would be having all the chances to go triple champ after 2006, but look at how that panned out!

      3. Would be sad/funny to see him be a double world championa nd then beaten by others.

        Well, there is a double champion at the moment still waiting for his third title.

        1. Sad for him, if lucky he could be 4 times champion by now already. But he isn’t and could should would don’t get you anything.

          1. The fact makes me really sad.

        2. David A, Alonso is atleast beating all his teammates. Hamilton he drew with, but smashed Piquet into a wall (quite literally), smashed Massa, and is doing so again.

          THe only guy he didn’t smash was Hamilton who IS a WDC himself.

          And remember as banarama pointed out, a pit call was all that stopped him from being a WDC in a 2nd or 3d best car all year!

          —–
          And anyway, WEbber ISN’T highly rated.

          It’s only been since his spain and monaco in 2010 that anyone has actually cared. I want him to win, but I have toa dmit he isn’t a top driver.

          Going into 09 everyone said VEttel would beat him, into 10 everyone said vettel would smash him at everyone has wrong again.

          Fact is, Webber is now well above 30 and wasn’t the classed as an lucky Alonso/Schumacher, merely a top middle driver.

          I don’t call beating Webber, especially when he is having tyre problems and KERS issues more often that not, a big achievement. I see 09 and 10 and I don’t see at great skills over, I see someone who is marginally better

          1. don’t call beating Webber, especially when he is having tyre problems and KERS issues more often that not, a big achievement. I see 09 and 10 and I don’t see at great skills over, I see someone who is marginally better.

            Selective memory. You call back Webber’s problems this year, when he’s 85 points behind, yet make no mention of Vettel’s mechanical problems while leading three seperate races (63 points Vettel lost, yet he still won by 14). Across the three years together, Vettel has smashed Webber and he samshed Bourdais (a rookie like Piquet), like it or not.

          2. I don’t have a slective memory.

            Hardly, Webber had problems too including Germany and Brazil where his engine was overheating and he couldn’t run close enought overtake for fear of it blowing up.

            And anyway, that is hardly a great achievement to beat Webber. He destroyed Bordais by a massive %. (4 points vs 35 using the old system as well).

            In 2009 he beat Webber by 14.5 points after Webber came in with minimal testing and a healing broken leg. Wowww… That was Vettel’s 3rd year of F1 in a race seat and 4th year of driving an F1 car (2006 he was testing for BMW Sauber). I wouldn’t call beating Webber by 14.5 points a great achievement and he clearly was inexperienced and young as the media tend to put.

            In 2010:
            Vettel 256 points with 3 races hampered by mechanical problems (25 points lost in Korea. 12 points lost in Bahrain and ??? lost in Australia. He was leading in Australia but with rain adn straterg to come into play, we don’t knoow how RBR would have done it. THey screwed Webber over so it’s unlikely they would have been able to do any better with Vettel’s stratergy).

            – Stratergy in Australia. Should have taken over Vettel’s lead and gone on to win but a bad stratergy put him back in traffic and after trying too hard went back from 7th to 9th. Lost out to pole by approx 1 tenth
            – Vettel hit Webber off track, Webber was ahead and finished behind and lost another 2 places because of it. 5th vs 8th if we want to be technical. Could call it 6 points or a racing incident. I’m going with the later, but as much Webbers fault as an engine blowing in the 2nd race
            – Turkey. Teammate used race as a reference for his rsume for Jackass. Lost 10 points.
            – Canada, qualified 2nd (Hamilton on pole), but a gearbox problem put him back to 7th. We don’t know what would have happened but it would have been better than finishing 6th. ???? points lost
            – Wing in GB.. but didn’t lose points despite a mechanical disadvantage
            – Engine problems hit when he was closing up at a rate of knotes to overtake Button and he had to pull back (look at timings) and no overtake. ??? points lost, but probably would have atleast past the two McLarens give his great pace until then and his ability to easily keep up up just behind the buffer so 4 points???
            – Spa he had a clutch problem at the start and lost first to Hamilton. Easily outqualified Vettel.
            – Brazil he had engine problems although he was catching Vettel so he had to hold back and easily held the position. So 7 points for Webber and another -7 for Vettel.
            – Abu Dhabi stratergy hit him again rather hard.

            Added to that he Vettel barely beat Webber to pole at many tracks including Suzuka, China, Valencia, etc…

            Remembering that some Mech failuer actually helped Vettel (Monza, otherwise he wouldn’t have got that stratergy Horner admitted).

            So all over all, Vettel barely beat Webber and for a midfield driver Vettel should be doing a lot better if he is to be a top driver of this generation.

            Suprised you forgot ALL of these… selective memory?

          3. unocv12, in 2010, Vettel had problems too: bahrain: Spark plug failure
            australia: brake problem
            china: team strategy
            spain: brake problems
            Turkey; broken anti-roll bar
            monaco; cracked chassis
            canada: gearbox problem
            Silverstone: Slipping clutch
            Germany: Slipping clutch
            Hungary: Team radio malfunction
            Monza: sticking brakes
            Korea: engine failure

            You seem to forget most of the terminal failures that happened to vettel

          4. As it’s been pointed out, Vettel had far more problems than Webber, yet still beat him. Webbber had zero terminal failures all year in 2010. Vettel clearly lost 3 wins.

            Saying Vettel “barely beat” Webber is just an insult.

          5. SVettel David A +100

          6. unocv12, in 2010, Vettel had problems too: bahrain: Spark plug failure
            australia: brake problem
            china: team strategy
            spain: brake problems
            Turkey; broken anti-roll bar
            monaco; cracked chassis
            canada: gearbox problem
            Silverstone: Slipping clutch
            Germany: Slipping clutch
            Hungary: Team radio malfunction
            Monza: sticking brakes
            Korea: engine failure

            See unoc? This list includes three occasions that Vettel was clearly leading a race before a failure. Reasonable proof that he had the pace to win.

            You’re coming up with examples where Webber wasn’t actually doing much before any problems. Webber lost a win at Brazil? Please. Vettel was too quick. He should have beat the Mclarens in Germany? Yes, if he didn’t have a typically bad start to get stuck behind them in the first place. I don;t buy that Webber would have won in Australia either- not when his RB6 rammed Hamilton off the road twice.

            Simply, Vettel has been noticeably better than Mark Webber since 2010. Far from “barely beat”.

  4. Utterly pointless to compare drivers early in their career’s with one’s who have stopped racing. So Vettel has an ok record at the moment because he’s been in the best car, wait until his racing career is over before producing lists like this.

    And as for who is the youngest this or that, who cares, it means absolutely nothing.

    1. It might not mean anything, but beating records becomes harder and harder, that’s the nature of record breaking and the reason it makes for interesting discussion.

      1. Records are only exciting if they can be beaten by anyone. For example the fastest road car is a great record because all companies can go for it and who will get it?

        The ‘youngest’ is stupid because implies a prodigical talent and superstar while wearing diepers while what actually happens is drivers are getting younger.

        And then we get to this stupid game of… so does that make Vettel better than Alonso… sure yeah, cos he’s so young and impressive at a young age.. how about better than Senna.. course not lol, Senna can’t be beaten because he started late blah blah.

        The record doesn’t stand for anything meaningful. Vettel isn’t a better drive because of him doing it younger, he has just had a much quicker route from karts > fastest car on the grid than others.

        1. “Vettel isn’t a better drive because of him doing it younger, he has just had a much quicker route from karts > fastest car on the grid than others.”

          Ask Hamilton then. The only guy I know of having his rookie season in the most competitive car of the field.

          1. Exactly. Vettel and Hamilton weren’t fast tracked into competitive cars by accident. They showed enough promise in junior formulae and/or in lower teams to earn their competitive cars. And they haven’t disappointed.

          2. @David A I agree. Some people seem to think that the drivers a team chooses is like a lottery were they just pick names from a hat, blindfolded.
            To get to a good car early is important, and doing good in lower fomula racing series is a part of that.

      2. Don’t forget that he got the “youngest winner” record with a Toro Rosso (former Minardi) starting in the grid alongside a McLaren (Kovalainen, obviously) who wasn’t capable of beating him.

        Until Monza 2008, I was one of those thinking Vettel was a spoiled-overrated-PR-friendly kid.

        But his brilliant performance on the rain (pole position and win) in a classic track was enough to silence my critics.

        He still showed, as recently as last year, that he was VERY immature, but fast enough and head-strong when it mattered to win the title.

        This year he’s almost flawless: finishing second when he can’t win, and only once in 11 races he was out of first row and the podium.

        1. For goodness, sake, this is exactly what I was alluding to, that you can just cherry pick facts rather than look at the whole situation and story of why these happened.

          David A, sure they were fast tracked for a reason. But this didn’t happen 10 years ago even! Nothing as developed as the programmes of today. It’s a useless state unless you are arguing that Vettel is somehow better than Senna, Prost, Fangio etc.. for being younger. Surely that makes Buemi a better driver than Fangio for leading a lap at a younger age! And I believe better than Senna too!

          Vettel in fact was just pushed through as a marketing tool and to makeit look like all drivers in the programme weren’t fools, if you look properly as Vettel’s ‘lower formulae’ career you will note he won bugger all. Beaten in the same car at this, beaten by someone else at that. Hulkenberg won titles throughout his lower formulae career and he isn’t in an F1 race seat. Hamilton did and he is.
          Vettel won about as much as D’Abrosio going through
          Daniel

          Daniel, calling a Toro Rosso a Minardi is truley pathetic. That is like saying ‘wow, look Vettel is winning races in a Jaguar!!!

          THe Toro Rosso at the time VEttel drove it was a Red Bull with a Ferrari engine. Newey designed the Red Bull, stuck a Ferrari engine into it and later a Renault engine, and after putting a Renault in the Red Bull, a Ferrari was slotted into the Toro Rosso.

          A Minardi was a back marker car, the Toro Rosso, particularly during the last half of 2008 was anything BUT a back marker car. During that exact race he won from pole, his teammate, dumped by this team from F1 qualified 4th but didn’t take the start from their due to mechanical problems

          Can you please tell me how he was brilliant, what I saw was someone just out qualify a guy who didn’t belong in F1 and then led without opposition to do anything with.

          He has had by far the best car this season. The Ferrari has been slow, the McLaren sometime there somtimes not. Webber has had more mechanical problems during Quali and the start and some in the later parts of the race to go mad, plus he was struggling with the tyres.

          It is a thumbs up to him for being able to get the results consistantly, but he hasn’t had to work for them speed wise, just be consistant.

          1. It’s a useless state unless you are arguing that Vettel is somehow better than Senna, Prost, Fangio etc.. for being younger.

            I did not compare him to those people, and didn’t say that “youngest” anything is important. You said that Vettel got into the fastest car early, and I added that he did so by working his way up from test driving and STR.

            If you look properly as Vettel’s ‘lower formulae’ career you will note he won bugger all. Beaten in the same car at this, beaten by someone else at that.

            He did respectably in lower formulae rather than be outstanding. But when given a chance to test for BMW, impressed. When at STR, impressed. That’s why I said “or in lower teams to earn their competitive cars”.

            Hulkenberg won titles throughout his lower formulae career and he isn’t in an F1 race seat. Hamilton did and he is.

            Barring one wet qualifying session, Hulkenberg wasn’t all that impressive, scoring less than half the points of his teammate. That put his Williams seat at risk.

            Hamilton came into Mclaren, matched Alonso and challenged for the title. His seat wasn’t put at risk.

            Vettel consistently scored points in the STR and won a race. His F1 future wasn’t put at risk. Makes sense?

            Can you please tell me how he was brilliant, what I saw was someone just out qualify a guy who didn’t belong in F1 and then led without opposition to do anything with.

            If you seriously tuned in to qualifying on that day and weren’t even impressed, let alone astounded by a 20 year old taking a Toro Rosso to pole at a wet Monza, and following it up with a convincing win over the rest of the field, then go ahead and senselessly deride everything Vettel has and ever will achieve.

            He has had by far the best car this season. The Ferrari has been slow, the McLaren sometime there somtimes not. Webber has had more mechanical problems during Quali and the start and some in the later parts of the race to go mad, plus he was struggling with the tyres.

            It is a thumbs up to him for being able to get the results consistantly, but he hasn’t had to work for them speed wise, just be consistant.

            Well, I believe you have overplayed the difference between the front running cars. At various points this season, especially on Sundays, the Ferraris and Mclarens have had close race pace to the RBRs. More often than not, Webber has struggled even when his car is functional (Spain, Turkey, Hungary, Monaco). Vettel certainly did have to work for some of his wins like Spain and Monaco.

            Long post over.

          2. Pathetic is misinterpreting a text to criticize it. “former Minardi” is as valid for Toro Rosso as “former Honda” was for Brawn.

            If Toro Rosso’s car wasn’t as hopelessly slow as Minardi used to be, it was clearly a midfield car… Since you called it a “Red Bull with Ferrari engine”, just look at the other results in 2008, not only Toro Rosso’s, but Red Bull’s acheivements.

            Red Bull scored only 29 points with a single 3rd place as its best result. Toro Rosso, with 39, and also with only one podium, beat its supplier team mostly because of Vettel’s win in Monza and a few other great results in the last races.

            Winning in these circunstances is remarkable. If it is not, I can’t remember another F-1 win that deserves that credit. Yeah, the weather was crazy, just as in other great wins – Senna in Donington ’93, Barrichello in Hockenheimen ’00, Raikkonen in Suzuka ’05, Button in Hungaroring ’06, Button in Montreal ’11…

            Being competitive and delivering in a top team is harder than it seems from the outside, mostly when you are unexperienced. See what happened to Kovalainen… one season in the midfield (Renault) than a move to a top team (McLaren) where he spent two seasons doing nothin worth mentioning, except for a single win (Hungaroring ’08) inherited with four laps to go after Massa’s engine blow away…

            There are other good examples of drivers underperforming when given their big opportunity: Andretti, Irvine, Frentzen, Barrichello, Fisichella…

            So all credits to Hamilton and Vettel for this. The only thing Vettel never faced was a TRULY competitive team-mate, like Alonso in 2007 with Hamilton. Webber is good, but not a match for Sebastian… he is, at best, as competitive as Button is for Hamilton…

            But I can agree with you in one thing: only time can make Vettel truly great: more and more time at the top, or facing challenges and placing his cars higher than they should be (Alonso increased even more his reputiation by doing this the last few years)…

          3. Everybody seems a little over excited here.

            To be fair, although Vettel’s first win and pole was brilliant, Bourdais showed by qualifying 4th (and Webber in the Red Bull 3rd- a very similar car) that the Toro rosso was simply very well suited to the track and its conditions. Unlike Hulkenberg, who seemed to genuinely find pace from nowhere last year, Vettel had a car that was, on that day, one of the most competitive regardless of who was driving. Yes it took him to stick it right at the front and drive it to 1st, and it was very impressive, but calling it a Minardi in an attempt to make his achievement seem greater doesn’t seem right.

          4. It’s a useless state unless you are arguing that Vettel is somehow better than Senna, Prost, Fangio etc.. for being younger.

            I did not compare him to those people, and didn’t say that “youngest” anything is important. You said that Vettel got into the fastest car early, and I added that he did so by working his way up from test driving and STR.

            If you look properly as Vettel’s ‘lower formulae’ career you will note he won bugger all. Beaten in the same car at this, beaten by someone else at that.

            He did respectably in lower formulae rather than be outstanding. But when given a chance to test for BMW, impressed. When at STR, impressed. That’s why I said “or in lower teams to earn their competitive cars”.

            Hulkenberg won titles throughout his lower formulae career and he isn’t in an F1 race seat. Hamilton did and he is.

            Barring one wet qualifying session, Hulkenberg wasn’t all that impressive, scoring less than half the points of his teammate. That put his Williams seat at risk.

            Hamilton came into Mclaren, matched Alonso and challenged for the title. His seat wasn’t put at risk.

            Vettel consistently scored points in the STR and won a race. His F1 future wasn’t put at risk. Makes sense?

            Can you please tell me how he was brilliant, what I saw was someone just out qualify a guy who didn’t belong in F1 and then led without opposition to do anything with.

            If you seriously tuned in to qualifying on that day and weren’t even impressed, let alone astounded by a 20 year old taking a Toro Rosso to pole at a wet Monza, and following it up with a convincing win over the rest of the field, then go ahead and senselessly deride everything Vettel has and ever will achieve.

            He has had by far the best car this season. The Ferrari has been slow, the McLaren sometime there somtimes not. Webber has had more mechanical problems during Quali and the start and some in the later parts of the race to go mad, plus he was struggling with the tyres.

            It is a thumbs up to him for being able to get the results consistantly, but he hasn’t had to work for them speed wise, just be consistant.

            Well, I believe you have overplayed the difference between the front running cars. At various points this season, especially on Sundays, the Ferraris and Mclarens have had very close race pace to the RBRs. More often than not, Webber has struggled even when his car is functional (Spain, Turkey, Hungary, Monaco). Plus Vettel certainly did have to work for some of his wins like Spain and Monaco.

    2. I agree, it seems to me that people are also underestimsting just what schumacher acheived on and off the track, by virtually managing ferrari as well as winning a lot of races that left people scratching their heads wondering how did it.

      1. Lewis Hamilton: “The driver of the past, the present and the future”

        Nuff said.

        …(wipes tears) boy that cracked me up real good!

        1. Matt,

          Everybody seems a little over excited here.

          To be fair, although Vettel’s first win and pole was brilliant, Bourdais showed by qualifying 4th (and Webber in the Red Bull 3rd- a very similar car) that the Toro rosso was simply very well suited to the track and its conditions. Unlike Hulkenberg, who seemed to genuinely find pace from nowhere last year, Vettel had a car that was, on that day, one of the most competitive regardless of who was driving. Yes it took him to stick it right at the front and drive it to 1st, and it was very impressive, but calling it a Minardi in an attempt to make his achievement seem greater doesn’t seem right.

          +1 for comment of the day….

  5. Great post. Thanks for this Keith.

    Would love Vettel to get the most poles in a season record. He just needs to be on pole in half the remaining races.

    1. I refer you to Jim Clark, check the percentages, Fangio also .

      1. He’s said number of poles, which means Mansell, who got 14 in 1992.

  6. wasn’t qualifying with race fuel loads from 2003 to 2009?..I’m guessing you’re referring to Webber’s 2002 qualifying performances

    1. 03 and 04 were light-fuel quali too. And if you remember Webber was able to get that terrible Jaguar into places it shouldn’t have been.

      1. I don’t think they were

        1. *with light-fuel qualifying, that is

          1. Always happy to be corrected, but in my head I’m sure that race-fuel quali was brought in in 2005.

      2. And before that the Williams.

        1. He was in a Williams after Jaguar.
          2002 Minardi
          2003, 2004 Jaguar
          2005,2006 Williams
          2007- Red Bull.

  7. It’s nice to see a battle for the records with Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel.

    I really hope to see a great race with them three battling for the lead one day. I don’t think they’ve even shared the podium together?

    Monaco we had Vettel, Alonso, Button and Germany we had Alonso, Hamilton, Webber.

    1. I think this comment is more to the point. Schumacher had little competition. Senna and Prost had to face each other (and Mansell) which makes more of a comparison with the present era. I think we all know the ‘Vettel dominance’ is down to the combination of faster car in qualifying, more or less equal in racing, and Vettel’s speed in quali and leading from the front. Being realistic, though, Hamilton and Alonso are just as fast and far better racers. Given equal cars, Vettel would be doomed to third place while these two continued. So it’s really down to the teams (cars) to sort these drivers out for posterity – whoever generally gets the best car over the next 5 to 10 years will probably approximate or even beat Schumacher’s record number of wins, though I’d prefer not to see it broken too soon – that would mean the dominance of just one team.

    2. Singapore 2009 maybe? Who finished 2nd that race… I forget…

      1. Timo Glock.

        1. Mark Hitchcock
          8th August 2011, 0:17

          Easy guy to forget.

  8. maxthecat makes good points. After a tremendous early and mid career Tiger Woods has had a bit of a bad run. A few years ago he appeared to be set to wipe out most of the important records in pro golf(indeed, like vettel, he already owns quite a few records)and suddenly injuries and personal issues have made him the equivalent of a back marker.
    Great article, though, as I enjoy looking at the stats and reading comparisons.

    1. But Tiger Woods will go down in history as one of the greatest golf players ever.

      No matter what happens now Vettel will still be considered a great as he will likely be a double world champion at the end of the year.

      1. I don’t know, if he goes JV on us people won’t be putting him in their Top 10s

        1. I remember how people made out Villeneuve to be the future greatest, then Alonso then Hamilton then Vettel. At some point way way in the past people even thought of Fisichella to become a champion. Early career tells nothing about the rest of it. When Schumacher came to the sport he wasn’t regarded as the biggest talent, when he went to Ferrari people thought his career is over and in the end he is on top of all those records.That leads me to think .. wouldn’t it be awesome if he could strike back once again?! :-P

        2. JV was arrogant and gave up after he won the title. Much like Raikkonen, but I actually had some respect for him…

          1. Just because Hamilton’s only won one title though doesn’t mean he’s the next JV?

            He’s challenged for titles in 3 of his 5 years in F1. Same with Vettel.

            I really can’t see people forgetting about Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel.

          2. Yeah, those 3 drivers have concsistently challenged title battle. Only difference is Vettel never challenged title without less competitive car. Of course it doesn’t mean he can’t but if he want people not to have doubt, he needs to prove. Actually I think he can, but I’m not sure he would be impressive as much as Alonso and Hamilton in tough situation.

          3. @Eggry – You can’t challenge for the title without an uncompetitive car.

            Alonso won his two titles with a dominant car. Hamilton couldn’t do enough in 2009. The only car Vettel’s been in that wasn’t up to scratch was the Toro Rosso and he got some impressive results, not just the win but many 4th, 5th and 6th places, this was in a car that his team mate struggled to get points in.

        3. I can explain why in three letters: B.A.R :D I doubt Vettel will make the same mistake again.

          On the other hand, Hamilton hasn’t been in the WDC Top 3 since 2008, and should really start winning again soon.

  9. It won’t be long before Vettel starts breaking records for the fastest person to break records.

    1. cotd candidate!

      1. Where’s Newey record for most drivers to win a WDC but then no other thanks to the brilliance of his car?

        I believe he should be on 5 so far:
        Mansell, Hill, Villneuve, Hakkinen and Vettel have all won a championship with a Newey car but none other. Villneuve hasn’t even won a race in a non Newey car… nor has Vettel (STR was a Newey Red Bull with a Ferrari engine at that stage).

        1. @unocv12 You could give that suggestion to FIA etc. Besides car or designer, drivers play a vry crucial factors, for ex last year if nt by the briliant drove from Vettel at the end of the season Red Bull despite being the better car in almost whole season wouldnt win the driver champion, if nt Vettel it would go to Alonso where the RB other driver Webber failed to do so.

  10. di Resta in a competitive car will be hard one to beat, Schumi’s place will go to di Resta in 2013. And if the merc is competitive he will be champion for sure.

  11. i was reading all the comments, and towards the end of all, i had to quickly read the title of this article again, i thought that the comments would be written on Vettel or his performance :D

  12. I doubt anyone will ever pass the 91 wins record.

    Let’s say Vettel wins another 5 races this year; he would need to win 10 races a year for another 7 years to beat that record.

    Of course, he could easily go for another 10 years (which is also a scary thought), but I don’t see it happening unless we return to the old two-team hegemony seasons of the 2000s and he’s in one of those teams.

    1. +1

      We should relish the fact there are at least two greats at their peak out there right now, Alonso and Hamilton, a great in ‘gentle decline’ shall we say, Schumacher, and a number of fine drivers, including Button, Rosberg and Webber, and more than a few emerging talents set to prove themselves over the next few seasons. Then there’s Kubica, who will hopefully return to his best and who I’d have placed alongside the first three (FA, LH and MS) as the set of drivers willing to push to the limit and beyond on track (literally those who come closes to the walls). And Vettel? Where to place him depends on whether he can still move up a level in racing. But his ‘self-preservation limit’ seems a bit narrower than this group, he risks a little less, so I don’t see it. But he has the dedication and concentration to perfect many other aspects of his driving.

      1. Well said David BR

      2. I feel that is a good analysis of the current field, well said.

      3. But he has the dedication and concentration to perfect many other aspects of his driving.

        And the years.

  13. 4TH, Fernando Alonso 69 podiums 40.83%
    With Minardi,
    renault 2003 & 2004, fighting with Ferrari and Mclaren,
    Renault 2008 & 2009…

    And had a 40% of races in podium…

    % of victory / gp

    9 FANGIO Juan Manuel 24 47.06
    20 ASCARI Alberto 13 40.63
    7 CLARK Jim 25 34.72
    1 SCHUMACHER Michael 91 32.62
    5 STEWART Jackie 27 27.27
    2 PROST Alain 51 25.63
    3 SENNA Ayrton 41 25.47
    14 MOSS Stirling 16 24.24
    15 VETTEL Sebastian 16 21.92
    16 HAMILTON Lewis 16 19.51
    11 HILL Damon 22 19.13
    4 MANSELL Nigel 31 16.58
    6 ALONSO Fernando 27 15.98

  14. Everyone talks about Vettel’s current car, but remember he won Minardi / Toro Rosso’s only race back in 2008 in a mid field car. I think that really sets him apart despite the board here always saying he has the best car / luck.
    Anyone here think that Alonso / Hamilton could have done that?

    1. As Bourdais started the race 3rd you could assume Toro Rosso was a strong package that weekend and not a ‘Minardi’. Therefore I do believe Alonso and especially Hamilton, with his record in the wet, could have done that.

      1. But where did Bourdais finish? 18th, a lap+ behind.

        1. I’m sure you know he have to start from the pit due to start failure.

          1. And I’m sure you and “brum55” know Vettel was 0.9 seconds faster than Bourdais in qualifying. He was the best driver on that weekend, simple.

          2. Yeah but with almost best machine. That’s why we are talking about Bourdais.

    2. Midfield car? The Red Bull with a stronger engine,that year was the apex of the era of rule stability and the backmarkers had substantially closed the gap to the top teams.

      1. Of course the STR was a midfield car. Ferrari, Mclaren and sometimes BMW were the front runners. STR were certainly behind Renault and Toyota, and around where Red Bull were. It was Vettel that made the difference and pulled it to 8th in the championship.

  15. Vettel’s really racking up the records. Quite likely to get another couple of wins this season too. Will probably hit the ground running before any other team next season (Newey will ‘find’ something). Three in a row?

    1. Three in a row for Red Bull? Yes please! Three in a row for Vettel? No thank you. ;)

  16. Everyone cites vettels win in the torro rosso as evidence of his genius. But That car was fantastic, even liuzzi had it on the second row in that race and no one considers him a particularly strong driver.

    1. How about the 9 points finishes that season vs 2 for the other Sébastien.
      Pole and races are different things. Nico (H not R) was able to get one in a not very good Williams, great accomplishment, but nonetheless, not a win.
      Not to mention Minardi did have Webber and Alonso when they were young drivers as well.
      Anyway, point being, anytime Vettel does well, people always say it’s the car, even when it’s in a Minardi / Torro Rosso.

      1. Old Minardi, when Webber and Alonso served, was never been a mid fielder.

    2. It was a midfielder. Not “fantastic”. So yes, it was a brilliant win.

      1. It wasn’t a midfielder though. It was the best car that weekend. If Vettel qualified 1st and his team mate 11th then you could argue that it was a midfield car. But when they qualify 1st and 3rd then you can assume it is down to the car. His team-mate was hardly Ayrton Senna, it was Bourdais.

        Also in Spain Alonso qualified 0.9s ahead of Massa and in Germany Hamilton qualified 1.1s ahead of Button, both of whom have achieved far more in F1 than Bourdais.

        1. And Vettel outqualified Webber by 1.1 in 2010 Bahrain. And he absolutely left Webber for dead in 2011 China. And Mark is known as a good qualifier; don’t forget that.

        2. Vettel, a 20 year old, put the Red Bull B-Car on pole by 0.9 over his teammate and didn’t put a foot wrong throughout the 53 laps. Bloody impressive.

          Vettel beat Webber (a driver currently higher ranked than Massa) by 0.8 in Australia 2011, 1.1 in Bahrain 2010 and 0.6 last week.

          1. That Red Bull B car was faster than than the Red Bull A car that season and in no way comparable to the Minardi’s that were constantly at the back of the grid. I never stated that his win was lucky or anything like that, it was excellent as you say. But Minardi have never qualified 1st and 3rd.

            The reason I pointed out the qualifying of Hamilton and Alonso is because you mentioned Vettel out-qualifying Bourdais as if it were major feat. Indeed outqualifying Webber by so much certainly trumps that also.

    3. Come on! How many of you on here THAT DAY were saying ‘thats one of the greatest things I’ve seen in F1’ and putting that up there in the best drives ever
      LOADS

      now he’s become very successful its the same old rubbish ‘lucky win, best car, no opposition’ lines

      1. Guilherme (@the_philosopher)
        6th August 2011, 22:58

        I agree 100%. Actually, you’ve just said what I always wanted to say, but was never able to put on words!

      2. Still one of the greatest F1 moments. Seeing Minardi win after all that time even after the takeover was amazing. They’ve been around since almost as long as I have been around. The year before I think Vettel was BMW’s backup driver.
        Their car was more decent than their car most years, but it would be comparable to seeing Sauber (non BMW) or Force India win a race this year.
        Vettel’s subsequent success in a more competitive car at RB should not diminish what he in a very average at best car.
        I would of course loved to see Alonso or Hamilton in a similar mid field car do something as amazing, not counting Minardi’s history etc…

  17. I’d like to know what the laps led records are. That’d certainly be an interesting one.

    1. 1 SCHUMACHER Michael 5 108
      2 SENNA Ayrton 2 931
      3 PROST Alain 2 683
      4 MANSELL Nigel 2 091
      5 CLARK Jim 1 943
      6 STEWART Jackie 1 919
      7 PIQUET Nelson 1 600
      8 LAUDA Niki 1 592
      9 HAKKINEN Mika 1 488
      10 ALONSO Fernando 1 414
      11 HILL Damon 1 358
      12 FANGIO Juan Manuel 1 347
      13 MOSS Stirling 1 181
      14 HILL Graham 1 102
      15 VETTEL Sebastian 1 086
      16 RAIKKONEN Kimi 1 071
      17 HAMILTON Lewis 993

      And Hat-tricks
      1 SCHUMACHER Michael 22
      2 CLARK Jim 11
      3 FANGIO Juan Manuel 9
      4 PROST Alain 8
      5 ASCARI Alberto 7
      6 SENNA Ayrton 7
      7 MANSELL Nigel 5
      8 HILL Damon 5
      9 HAKKINEN Mika 5
      10 ALONSO Fernando 5

      1. Clark surely is the most impressive here. He drove the wheels off anything he raced in.

  18. Judging by some of the comments so far, Vettel doesn’t seem to get as much respect for his achievements as Alonso or Hamilton. Personally I think he’s just as good as those two. People slate him for his apparent weakness at overtaking, but he’s just as good as Alonso and better than Hamilton when it comes to consistently getting the maximum possible result out of his car. Also he’s more consistent when it comes to stringing together perfect qualifying laps.

    Just look at last week’s race. Hamilton had a faster car in both qualifying and the race, yet he failed to get pole position and lost a sure win due to bad strategy and a spin. Whereas Vettel nabbed pole, drove a steady race to increase his championship lead with a 2nd place, and he even overtook Alonso on track.

    I think he’ll get the respect he deserves eventually. He’s too good not to.

    1. He doesn’t need to overtake. Because he’s usually so far in front anyway!

      People need to re-watch Spa ’08, Britain ’10 and Spain ’11. Some of Vettel’s better races, where he did overtaking!

      1. I cant speak for Spa as I didnt see it.

        Silverstone 2010 is not a good example of overtaking sucess. The RB6 was miles better than any car he overtook that day. The mere suggestion that overtaking those midfield cars was a demonstration of skill, simply, offends me. Anyone who could not pass those cars in that situation, should have been sacked on the spot.

        Likewise in Spain this year. His overtakes were clearing traffic on an outlap. This year has shown the importance of fresh tyres especially. He overtook some cars who were dissadvantaged with badly worn tyres. Contratulations Vettel, well done…

        Silverstone this year, and Germany especially show better evidence of his abilities, or lack there of. Unable to pass Hamilton and Massa respectivley, evenw ith DRS. I’m not saying he is a ‘bad’ overtaker, but he has not demonstrated the skills of other drivers like Hamilton or Alonso. He still needs to go toe-to-toe with a driver in an equal or better car, same condition tyres and fuel, and then get passed. If he does that, then i’ll start showing him a little more respect.

        1. Risk management.
          He doesn’t need to pull out risky moves.

          What’s great overtaking? Hamilton’s in Melbourne last season?? with a more powerful mercedes engine and the F-duct?

          Don’t get me wrong, not saying here Hamilton isn’t, but just showing that every one could argue about the other drivers, but reality is that Vettel is a GREAT driver, with Outstanding qualifying pace, great speed and this year he’s also showing composure. Something, and let me tell you now without risk of being wrong, Hamilton lacks.

        2. For one, craig’s point is that Vettel barely needs to pass- he’s someone who’s started 1st more times than Alonso and Hamilton.

          He passed Massa’s Ferrari and Petrov’s Renault (which had the speed to get a podium before Kubica’s breakdown) at Silverstone 2010. And Alonso last Sunday.

          So sweeping those under the carpet and highlighting Britain 2011 and Germany 2011? Not a very good move.

          1. Petrov: Highlighting a rookie here remember. A challenge… probably not (and before you throw Abu Dahbi my way, the track there is the problem, not the drivers in particular).

            Massa: Well, I don’t think anyone can say he’s been performing as well as he could :( And in any case, basing a whole counter-argument on one overtake.. hardly ground breaking evidence.

          2. Guilherme (@the_philosopher)
            6th August 2011, 23:08

            And I can’t even see what’s so wrong about not overtaking Massa at Germany. The Ferrari was evidently faster that day, the DRS was totally useless and the Ferrari had higher top speed (I think). So, given that their tyres were basically the same, I don’t think it is strange that he got stuck. Actually, it happens more often than not.

          3. Petrov: Highlighting a rookie here remember. A challenge… probably not (and before you throw Abu Dahbi my way, the track there is the problem, not the drivers in particular).

            Oh, yes, Vettel passes Petrov and “he’s a rookie”. Alonso doesn’t and “it’s the track”. I thought it was possible to pass at Istanbul Park?

            Considering the number of Vettel passes you’re failing to sweep under the carpet, the broom you’re using is getting worn out…

        3. Guilherme (@the_philosopher)
          6th August 2011, 23:12

          He still needs to go toe-to-toe with a driver in an equal or better car, same condition tyres and fuel, and then get passed. If he does that, then i’ll start showing him a little more respect.

          Seriously, how often that happens? Maybe when the driver in front makes a mistake…

      2. Dont forget Brazil 09 and China 07 (first few laps especially)

    2. sorry, did you see vettel’s pole lap at hungary? he didnt make one apex!

      1. Did we watch the same lap? I am sorry, but he got the second fastest car to pole position and he was one of the only of the top 6 drivers to improve their lap times when they got out on their final run. It was a great lap, the car just wasn’t as balanced as it should have been.

      2. Mark Hitchcock
        8th August 2011, 0:37

        Yet he still got pole. What’s your point?
        That the other drivers are so bad that they can’t beat a driver who’s missing every apex? Or maybe that the Red Bull is a terrible car which is incapable of being driver to a perfect lap?

        Or maybe you’re desperately trying to find problems with an incredibly talented driver who has barely put a foot wrong for a year and a half!

        You may not like him, but Vettel is a very good driver. Would is really hurt to just admit it?

        1. Mark Hitchcock
          8th August 2011, 0:38

          *driven

  19. Thanks very much for the list Keith. Nice to see Massa on the podiums list too.

    On a very different note, does anyone know who has had the most drive through penalties since they were introduced?

    1. Probably Lewis!

    2. I’m guessing Juan Pablo Montoya. He got the first-ever drive-through, anyway. :D

  20. schumacher won 2 wdc titles before he came to ferrari
    alonso won 2 wdc titles before coming to ferrari

    schumacher waited 5 years before winning a title with ferrari
    alonso will wait 5 years before winning a title with ferrari

    schumacher is the best ever
    ALONSO WILL BE THE BEST EVER

    i hope

    1. Vettel could also match that trend… maybe even him and Nando at Ferrari in a few years slugging it out

    2. Maybe Vettel can become the Jimmie Johnson of F1.

    3. you are very correct,alsono just need 5 years of ferrari always at the top now lol

  21. Whether Vettel can be able to rival any of Schumachers records, maybe Hamilton and Alonso will have something to say about that.

    1. Sort of “WE WILL PREVENT IT!”? :P

  22. I believe if it hasn’t already been mentioned, Vettel will become the youngest double world champ if he wins it this year.

  23. @Eggry yeah with “almost best machine” he outqualified hs teammate and won promisingly.

    1. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Vettel is poor. Without almost best machine, evem Senna would struggle to win. Also he did very well indeed. It was very impressive as rookie, but including it, he have barely faced resistence when he’s winning. You can say it’s because he’s too good, others say he would be struggle to win if he’s behind.

      I don’t rate Button so high but he did better than Barichello. Still I don’t think he has pure speed to win because his pace usually can’t match Hamilton, but sometimes he still managed to win. I respect his skill to manage victory without purr speed but I dob’t think he’s one of greats. Similar but in opposite way is applied to Vettel to me. He has brilliant speed, but I’m not sure he can fight for win against heavy resistence.

      Every winners are good, every champions are great. But it doesn’t mean they are all equally evaluated.

  24. vettel is going to get better records than alonso and hamilton, evethough i am certain he is not the best of the lot. But the most focused, and the one with less oposition.

    1. How is Vettel with the “less opposition”? How many WDCs are on the grid this year?

    2. How can he have less opposition if there is two drivers that are better then him as you say? That just don’t make sense.

      1. You’ve definitely caught him out there ;)

        1. i think with ‘no opposition’ he meant the Red Bull car compared to the others

          1. Well, if Alonso and Hamilton are so much better than Vettel, as people still seem to think, they’ll still be opposition, rather than 90 points down.

  25. Drivers who win in cars that are not the best on the grid are great drivers. Senna (lotus) Schumacher (benetton) Vettel (Torro Rosso). And he can overtake, melbourne 2011, budapest 2011 both around the outside Button, Alonso.

    1. Panis, Lieger……

      1. Panis was lucky winner of a demolition derby, not to disrespect his ability but you can’t build a case on a fluke.

        1. overtaking alonso in budapest….
          with difference in tyres it was like he passed Liuzzi, i just don’t understan how you people don’t see this things :S

  26. Well said!

    But I don’t believe Schumacher’s record will be broken, not even by himself in his pale return…

    It was a very unlikely combination of factors: having one of the best and frequently the best car during more than ten seasons against uncompetitive team-mates (Vestappen, Herbert, Irvine, Barrichello) and a sometimes strong (Hakkinene, Villeneuve) but always unconsistent opposition, weaker than both the previous and the following generations of drivers(previous: Senna, Prost, Mansell, Piquet; following: Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton, Vettel)

    1. Schumacher was better than Massa a lot of the time. By that logic he might have been third in 2007, possibly champion in 2008, bad in 2009 and possibly 5th in 2010. Thats among the best if I’m not mistaken. Of course we can never prove any of those statements but he looks considerably worse since his comeback than he is, I’m sure of that. Its just sad how people describe him as a mediocre to bad driver while they didn’t see him in the nineties (or ignore it).

      1. by seeing him i mean actually at the track, standing at the corners .. seeing him fly through them like no other driver could. racing other drivers no matter the cost, even at his own expense (and sometimes going too far). maybe i’m just being nostalgic…

    2. Don’t forget the (better) Bridgestone tyre was made for Schumacher!

  27. I’m sure by next season Ferrari and Mclaren will have cottoned onto Red Bull’s secrets. It would suprise me if Mercedes and possibly Renault do to.

    And I hope I’m not suprised to. Having more than three teams fights for a win would be utterly fantastic. Vettel more than likely will win more than three championships in his career, however, I feel that 65% of his success is down to his car. He has rarely “out driven” his car compared to some of his competitors. I’d bet that he wouldnt be some dominant if Ferrari and Mclaren had their cars on a par with Red Bull’s at the moment…

  28. Given the age & the machine they are driving I do think both Hamilton & Vettel will give Senna & Prost a hard time in the number of wins.The pole position may go to Vettel as he is great on a single lap qualifying.But the question will always remain how many WC can they each win.

  29. Mr.Zing Zang
    7th August 2011, 4:23

    Kieth I know you love Vettel, but he is still not the most inexperienced champion though. i want to see you make a list of that!

  30. Jelle van der Meer (@)
    7th August 2011, 7:32

    Guys I am amazed – a great Stat article and all I read in the comments is a discussion who is better or why Vettel is rubbish. That is not the point – it is about stats and records and the numbers tell that Vettel is young but already makes his way up the record lists.

    Just wanted to add more youngest records:
    * Youngest F1 driver to break a F1 record
    * Youngest F1 driver to get a FIA speeding ticket
    * Youngest F1 driver to get into top 10 all time point scorers (25 points or not)
    * Youngest F1 driver to get into top 10 all time poles positions

    In terms of Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel you should not compare stats as set in different conditions but here are the nummbers:
    Wins: Alonso 27, Vettel & Hamilton 16
    % Wins: Vettel 21.9%, Hamilton 19.5% and Alonso 15.9%
    Podiums: Alonso 69, Hamilton 40 and Vettel 29
    % Podiums: Hamilton 48.8%, Alonso 40.6% and Vettel 39.7%
    Poles: Vettel 23, Alonso 20 and Hamilton 18
    % Poles: Vettel 31.5%, Hamilton 22.0% and Alonso 11.8%
    Points: Alonso 974, Hamilton 642 and Vettel 615
    Points per race: Vettel 8.42, Hamilton 7.83 and Alonso 5.73

    You can read/judge above yourself to make your own conclusions

  31. @Eggry it’s your opinion, but Vettel already prooved it, for ex his defence against Hamilton in Spain. Vettel still young and he will be improving and better so years to come i believe he ll become that serious heavy resistence itself.

  32. First thing that comes to mind…youngest back to back world champion?

    OK, it’s not concrete, but almost!

    Good article. Facts are always good :)

  33. to whoever said minardi never scored a top 3 grid slot, please look at your facts….pierluigi martini did it, got a 2nd on the grid….look it up

    1. On super-soft Pirellis too! :D

      That was at Phoenix 1990. Talk about opening-round shocker!

  34. UKfanatic (@)
    8th August 2011, 22:58

    Not only Vet is younger than schumi, but Schumi took off from 2001 till 2004 already with 10 years of experience. Vettel may have found his “Ferrari” with only just 24, he may beat that record, despite all factors analized in this arcticle plus I think you forgot one thing, Championships are longer and cars are even more reliable than before, I dont want to see this record broken but it might.

  35. We found out how good Vettel was when he won in the Torro Rosso at the 2008 Italian GP. With that win it made Vettel the youngest ever driver to win a grand prix.

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