Indian GP organisers “not happy” with 2012 date

F1 Fanatic round-up

Posted on

| Written by

In the round-up: Indian motor sport federation president Vicky Chandhok says it will be too hot for F1 in April in India.

Links

Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

India track will be ready, says chief (Reuters)

Vicky Chandhok: “I am not happy with April because it’s going to be hot. But if we have to go in April we will go. But I really think that the ideal dates for India are when it’s cooler. Maybe March or you go to October, November, December.”

Domenicali: "Alonso is the Number 1 in Formula 1 today" (Ferrari)

“For me, Fernando is the Number 1 driver in Formula 1 at the moment. I see a lot of similarities with Michael Schumacher, a driver who made his mark on our history. In fact, in some areas Fernando is even better, for example when I think of the speed with which he integrated himself into the team and the way he became its leader.”

Gilles Simon and P.U.R.E: a concern? (Grand Prix)

Gilles Simon: “A number of teams decided they wanted a V6 though, so we adapted accordingly. It won’t be any easier to build a V6: in fact it presents extra difficulties because it will rev higher. It’s just a shame that most engine suppliers had already spent a significant sum on four-cylinder projects that are now redundant. Money spent on research is never wasted, but in this instance it could have been used to better effect.”

Follow F1 news as it breaks using the F1 Fanatic live Twitter app.

Comment of the day

Rfs thinks Vettel deserves more respect for his achievements:

Judging by some of the comments so far, Vettel doesn’t seem to get as much respect for his achievements as Alonso or Hamilton. Personally I think he’s just as good as those two. People slate him for his apparent weakness at overtaking, but he’s just as good as Alonso and better than Hamilton when it comes to consistently getting the maximum possible result out of his car. Also he’s more consistent when it comes to stringing together perfect qualifying laps.

Just look at last week’s race. Hamilton had a faster car in both qualifying and the race, yet he failed to get pole position and lost a sure win due to bad strategy and a spin. Whereas Vettel nabbed pole, drove a steady race to increase his championship lead with a second place, and he even overtook Alonso on track.

I think he’ll get the respect he deserves eventually. He’s too good not to.
Rfs

From the forum

Design your own street circuit.

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Matthew McMahon and Penelope Pitstop!

On this day in F1

Jack Brabham had the 1966 world championship as good as won when he scored his fourth consecutive win of the year in the German Grand Prix.

His closest championship rival, Graham Hill, finished over six-and-a-half minutes behind in fourth place, with John Surtees and Jochen Rindt between them.

Author information

Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

Got a potential story, tip or enquiry? Find out more about RaceFans and contact us here.

80 comments on “Indian GP organisers “not happy” with 2012 date”

  1. Conveniently march or november would move the race to the very beginning of the season or a possible championship decider position. That would sure be more appealing than a race somewhere in the middle. Lets see how the racing will beon the track, maybe it will earn a place in our hearts and the public memory even without a convenient date. Oh and the weather aswell of course.

    Domenicali is right .. for sure :-P I suggest we don’t argue here once again, everyone has different opinions and each of us will find arguments to support their belief. I agree with D. but I believe Hamilton is as fast.

    1. Well it’s either the start or the end, ‘cos otherwise we’d be having an F1 race in the middle of monsoon season. Although that would be fun to watch ;)

      1. Yup… watching a safety car tip toe around the circuit would be worth it… If not that then the marshalls waving their arms with red flags…!

        1. That will continue until Charlie Whiting “safety freak” steps down… Then again we’ll probably get somebody worse

          1. Charlie visibly pushes safety in the interests of the racing. Like when marshal’s where recovering Heidfeld’s car. You could have had a Marshall seriously injured had a car not seen them coming out the pits.

            But you have to see that, safety is really, not an option. It must be as safe as possible, even if it’s to the detriment of the racing.

      2. I’d actually push for a race during the monsoon. Delhi doesn’t see the kind of heavy rains that the coasts receive. As long as the track drains quickly, they should be able to hold wet races there.

        1. Anyone who watched Indycar yesterday would’ve seen a tractor driving around the track several times during the race. Makes the whole thing look like it’s run by amateurs and F1 was close to that in Hungry with the recovery of Heidfelds car.

          1. The tractor is there to help get cars out of the dirt. Why is that amateur?

    2. Conveniently they’re moving the race to a hotter date. Obviously the FIA, Pirelli, and Bernie as well all favor Ferrari and will manipulate everything to see that they win!

      Is there a sarcasm smiley face??

      1. So, moving the USGP away from a June date in part to avoid the heat of a Texan summer, only to put the Indian GP in the same circumstances?

        Sounds really like the Bernie thing to do, I am curious how the calender will pan out in the end.

        1. Should we have zero races during the summer because of heat? Should F1 start in September and finish in April?
          I’m sure they can find a track where temperatures aren’t so high to stop racing.

          1. That’s why Europe needs to be mid-summer. Even at its hottest it isn’t that bad. The more tropical races need allowances if they are to be raceable.

    3. April in delhi? That’s gonna be like HOT. i remember this year in april temperatures were close to 40 degrees Celsius. People die of heatwaves there.
      Chandok is right. October – November or March. Beginning of the season is not a bad idea actually.

      They should have it here in Goa. During monsoons. On boats. :D

      1. I’d defend Australia’s place at the start of the season till the end of the earth. However, I think putting India soon after is a good idea for both climate and logistic reasons.

      2. north india starts baking up by mid of march and temp. start reaching 30-40 degree

      3. Who makes these race calendars is proving himself to be totally incompetent. I guess I know what’s going to happen. Sometime soon the headlines will read “FIA releases further modified 2012 calendar.”

    4. If you look at the climate data for New Delhi, April, May and June are really, really hot. April has an average high of 36C, while May and June are up into the 39C range.
      July, August and September are monsoon season, so the race will almost always be rain affected.

      I think the most viable option would be October. Which is when the race is run this year.

      1. September should be fine as well. The temperatures should be fine, and the monsoons are generally done with by mid september. There is always a slight possibility of a shower, which makes things interesting

  2. For sure Hamilton has the pace of Alonso. And now that Hamilton has had to endure a few tough seasons at McLaren, it is making him a much better driver.
    However, Alonso didn’t go to Ferrari when they were a midfield team like back in the days of Schumacher. Alonso does have that ability to drive a poor car beyond what other drivers can do. Hamilton too has that ability, as did Schumi back in his young days (I kind of wish he never came back, coz its sad to see him struggle).

    1. But then maybe Scumacher is turning a team which is pretty much midfield into a winning team again? Like him or hate him, I’m sure that every true F1 fan would love to see him top the podium just one more time before he bows out next year (cant really see him extending his contract…).

      Lets not forget that Brawn became a midfield team half way through 2009 after Red Bull, Ferrari, Renault and Mclaren cottoned on to thier magnificent pace.

      With Ross Brawn and the excellent team of engineers squirelling away, I wouldnt be overly suprised if Mercedes win a race by the end of next year, and hopefully in Schumacher’s hands (with all due respect to Rosberg).

      1. But then maybe Scumacher is turning a team which is pretty much midfield into a winning team again?

        Or he’s turning a winning team (brawn gp) into a midfield team.

        I always thought Schumacher’s input into getting Ferrari back to its winning ways was overrated. I’m sure having driver stability helped the team, but so did unlimited testing, bridgestone’s preferential treatment and the works of the people actually behind the car and team (Brawn, Rory, Todt)

        1. Brawn GP were a midfield team after the summer break in 2009. Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren and even Renault had caught them up. Brawn GP were unable to develop at the rate which it’s competitors were.

          Many commentators and journalists expected the 2010 Mercedes to be below par, and they were right.

          The dominance of Schumacher wasnt just him, but the team behind him. But lets not forget his stellar performances he had with Jordan and Benetton (before 1994 and 1995), as well as between 1997 and 1999 where the car wasnt quite as competitive and he came back from breaking both legs.

          1. Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren and even Renault had caught them up

            That is just not true. Ferrari were never as strong as Brawn and Renault weren’t even close. Mclaren wasn’t strong at all the tracks either.

            Brawn was the 2nd fastest car after the summer break, after being the fastest for the 1st half of the season. I wouldn’t judge the car’s performance by Jenson’s lack lustre drives in the 2nd half of the season. Rubens was taking pole positions and wins, and no one seems to remember that.

        2. @Todfod Way overrated for his hater not by many F1 experts..Jackie Stewart stated that even Stirling Moss who very ctitical about Schumacher believe on that aswell.
          “so did unlimited testing, bridgestone’s preferential treatment and the works of the people actually behind the car and team (Brawn, Rory, Todt)”
          So does other F1 teams but failed to do like what Schumacher did by helping the team into those successfull years.
          what a nonsense by saying turning Brawn Gp into a midfield team, Merc just failed to catch what Red Bull, Ferrari and Mclaren able to interpreted the rules changing in 2010 to developed better car and Schumacher joined the team in late 2009 from 3 years absence where the car almost completely build and the cutting cost at Merc not really helping them as well. It took years to developed such a dominating years it took him 4-5 years in Ferrari.

    2. Hamilton only has the pace. He’s not the best overall though.

  3. For me, Fernando is the Number 1 driver in Formula 1 at the moment.

    He really is, with those six wins and eight pole positions he’s got this year … no, wait. That’s someone else.

    1. Yeah, Alonso is rubbish and he’s doing it in a car that soooo much better then everyone else’s, a car that is yet to drop a pole positi……… what… that’s the other guy too!

      1. If Alonso and Vettel were in opposite situations – ie Alonso obliterating everyone – do you think Domenicalli would be saying anything different? Ferrari would happily take a car that was as dominant as the RB7, and even if Alonso’s success was only a direct result of having the best car on the grid, they’d still be singing their praises to him. So if it’s good enough for Alonso, why should it be any different for Vettel?

        I also dispute your claim that Vettel’s success is only a result of his car. Vettel’s greatest strength lies in the way he can put down strong laps when they are needed the most without bowing to the pressure. What’s Alonso’s strength? His ability to ask his team-mate to move over?

        1. His ability to do what Vettel does for a few laps.. over an entire race distance.

          1. I want to believe it, but when I see Vettel with 90 more points than Alonso, I just can’t believe it. This is, after all, “the most complete driver on the grid” … and a man who could not get past Vitaly Petrov at Abu Dhabi.

          2. Don’t be daft PM. Vettel might be able to string a few quick laps when it’s needed. Hamilton might be able to push the car right to the very edge in qually, but it’s Alonso who can take a car and get every bit of race pace out of it.

            I don’t even like Alonso… :/

            If you use Abu Dhabi and the points table as your reasoning for why Alonso isn’t a great driver, it’s pretty silly. How many times have we seen much faster cars stuck behind slower ones? A lot. Don’t forget this year passing is a lot easier.

          3. If you use Abu Dhabi and the points table as your reasoning for why Alonso isn’t a great driver, it’s pretty silly. How many times have we seen much faster cars stuck behind slower ones? A lot.

            Yet Alonso’s fans speak of him in such a way that this apparently isn’t a problem for him.

          4. Great comment of the day. Some people will never accept Vettel in ‘the big league’ with Alonso and Hamilton.

            PM makes a very good point, although I think Alonso is a much better drive than PM thinks so, the ‘most complete driver’ couldn’t overtake in a situation where he had to in order to win the title.

            Everyone has flaws but I can’t see why people think Vettel is only winning because of the speed of the RB7, the car hasn’t been that dominant (look at his team-mates results) and he is completely dominating the title.

        2. Haha stupid Ferrari haters as always, so what’s the point of two cars in the same team? if you don’t like team orders, go watch atletics, curling, badmington or something else if you don’t understand the sport. Alonso is a good driver as it’s Hamilton and Vettel, Vettel skills plus luck plus dominant car helped him gain that advantage, it’s just that end of the story, do not put in your silly Alonso/Ferrari hating quotes!

    2. So what are you saying… Vettel is the best driver in F1 right now?

      I thought you would understand the sport better than that right now.

      1. Unfortunately you can’t gauge it by any other means.

      2. How do you know he isn’t?

        I mean, I don’t think he is… But.. yeah… He’s not slow either.

    3. And they say ‘love is blind’?…
      the first 2 words of that quote you pulled are the most important…
      “FOR ME…”
      Its his opinion, he’s entitled to it.
      Sure you’re entitled to disagree, but, uh, trying to prove his opinion wrong, it’s a tad silly :)

    4. I agree with the COTD too, Tommy. I’m not even slightly concerned by all of the people that cast doubt over Seb’s abilities, because with time he will show them. Don’t you worry. ;)

      @PM – I know Alonso mightn’t be the most likeable character on the grid, but you can’t seriously begrudge him for not having as many points as Vettel this year. Besides, I still think he has an outside chance of winning the title. Ferrari just need to string a few good races together, and Seb needs his run of good fortune to end soon! :P

  4. Another thing is in April they have IPL which is a big event in India. So a average guy who love both cricket & F1 will not choose the later to go & watch it in the stadium.

    1. Just as well for me. I don’t particularly care about the IPL. It might make tickets a bit cheaper too!

      1. Id rather watch F1 than the IPL :). As far as it being too hot, that I agree with.

    2. That should be taken in consideration as well as the heat. Surely if F1 wants to gain a place, its not the best of Ideas to go head to head with a well established and popular sport like cricket!

      1. That assumes there is an IPL match on the weekend of the Grand Prix. And that all fans of the IPL watch every game. What if the Chennai Super Kings are playing the Kolkata Knight Riders on the Riders’ home ground? Neither city is near New Delhi and the Buddh International Circuit.

        Of course, it’s asking for trouble to schedule against a conflicting event – but that doesn’t mean it will be an outright disaster.

        1. Well, the IPL schedule is usually one match every weekday and two matches a day on weekends. Even if there are no matches in or near Delhi it’s a fair bet that not many people will watch the race on TV.

          And with tickets for IPL matches selling for between Rs. 300 to Rs. 5000 (7-110 USD) it would need somebody seriously committed to F1 to pony up the Rs 2500 (55 USD) for one weekend instead of watching all the Delhi team’s home matches.

  5. Indian GP in April!! that will be some spectacle, we will see a lot of Heidfield meteor shower (on road, of course) :)

  6. In some respects I agree with the comment of the day… however, I was watching the 2010 season review DVD and in the two races Vettel fell back through the order and needed to recover (Britain and Belgium) – he really highlighted how difficult he finds overtaking. He made contact on every pass he made in Britain and hit Button and Liuzzi in Spa and failed to make any progress from 15th even with the fastest car.

    There is no denying his amazing ability to win from the front, and, yes, he is indeed a great – but he is a very different driver to say Hamilton or Alonso.

    1. I feel Vettel still has a lot to prove before being accepted as one of the greats, the same is true for Hamilton and even Alonso to some extent.

      Vettel has a superfast car to thank for most of his winning. But he did a lot better with that car than Hill or Villeneuve did with their superfast Williams cars at the time. And him probably winning his second championship in a back to back campaign show he is special, he got in a higher gear after Spa last year and still rides that wave.

      As for making mistakes, Hamilton is arguably more prone to that, as well as being less involved and understanding of strategy than many of his current rivals. Vettel shows he understands this part perfectly.

      1. Indeed, you do not become a great simply because you are in a great car – but remember Vettel’s wet performances in the Toro Rosso at Shanghai and Fuji ’07 and Monza ’08. He is by no means merely a good driver. I agree with you that he has performed better than Hill or Villeneuve, but I actually think Hill was underrated.

        Hamilton is more prone to mistakes because Vettel is usually at the front and so rarely has an opportunity to make a mistake whilst overtaking – but when he does…

      2. But he did a lot better with that car than Hill or Villeneuve did with their superfast Williams cars at the time.

        Funny you should say that because as some of you might remember, I’ve been comparing Hill’s 1994-1996 seasons with Vettel’s 2009-2011 seasons. Here’s what I’ve collected so far:

        Hill:
        – 18 wins over 49 races, 36.7%
        – 18 pole positions, 36.7%
        – 35 front-row starts, 71.4%
        – Pole-to-win conversion 7/18, 38.9%
        – Number of victories that were won from not starting on pole 11/18, 61.1%
        – Races won from all non-pole starts 11/31 35.5%
        – Points percentage 257/490 52.4%*

        Vettel:
        – 15 wins over 47 races, 31.9%
        – 22 pole positions, 46.8%
        – 31 front-row starts, 67.3%
        – Pole-to-win ratio 11/22, 50%
        – Win from non-pole ratio 4/15, 26.7%
        – Non-pole to win ratio 4/25 16%
        – Points percentage 240/470 51%*

        *10-6-4-3-2-1 system

        Over a similar amount of time, Hill:
        – Won more races
        – Had more front-row starts
        – Has a greater percentage of victories that didn’t come from pole position
        – Has a greater percentage of winning in all the races he didn’t start from pole

        In his favour, Vettel has:
        – More poles
        – A better conversion rate
        – Will probably end up with a greater points percentage

        When you consider their reliability and dominance of car hasn’t been all that different, you’re only left with the old “lesser competition” chestnut. But when you’ve got a better car, how much does that really count for anyway? It doesn’t matter if you’re racing Schumacher or Badoer, there’s often little a driver can do with a car disadvantage, which is why we celebrate when it does happen. And besides, was Schumacher, Villeneuve and Coulthard in their prime really that much of a weaker combination than Alonso, Hamilton and Webber now?

        This is no slight on Vettel, more an appreciation for what Hill actually did. There’s no doubting who’s better, but it’s not quite so simple.

        1. Wow Icthyes, that is incredible. I honestly wouldn’t have thought Hill and Vettel were that similar. Just goes to show how spoilt we’ve become with close championships that people are getting bored with the 2011 season.

        2. Thank you for pointing out facts do not support my assumptions about Hill Icthyes. Perfectly show how we tend to easily talk down great drivers for having been in a superfast car!

          Interesting that. And even more, when I take in account that I actually rate Hill higher, for he could surely have continued to build on that if Frank Williams didn’t have a slightly strange way of keeping, or rather not keeping his champion drivers in the 90’s.

  7. Keith, you missed out my birthday!

    1. Happy birthday Ell anyhow, and the same wish to both Matthew McMahon and Penelope Pitstop!

      I hope you have a fine day to enjoy it.

    2. Happy birthday!

  8. Vettel is a victim of his own success. I fear people won’t be satisfied until he starts from the back and finishes on or somewhere near the podium with as much on track, no DRS assisted, overtaking as possible.

    Of course it doesn’t actually matter, he is no less a world champion than anyone else.

    1. Agree but I think Vettel still gets very hard done by by a small minority of fans. He went from 17th to 4th at China 07, 8th to 2nd at Japan 07 before that SC incident, ended up 7th after being last at Silverstone 2010 and raced through the traffic at Spain this year (although he did have a fresh set of the option tyre bolted on iirc).

      How many drivers on the grid have had that many battles through the field? Schumacher I can’t be bothered to count. Massa, who often gets the very same criticism as Seb, at Aus and Silv 07 and then Canada+Japan 08 and China 09. Alonso had a couple just last year with his early mistakes such as China, Aus and Monaco.

      There are quite a few examples but msot weekends it’s very, very rare that a driver has to pull them off especially when Seb rarely makes mistakes in qualifying. I don’t think less of Seb for it but more because he does the job and keeps out of trouble even if it isn’t exciting. However, if Seb ends up in that position I won’t worry about him. He out performed his Toro Rossos often enough so he’ll be able to put a top car where he needs to.

      1. +1 Steph.

        Also people forget Brazil 2009 where Vettel started behind Button and finished ahead of him. 16th to 4th.

        Also, Vettel had a 5 place grid drop in China ’07 so he actually started 22nd and last to go on to finish 4th.

        1. You’re right, I completely forgot about those two things! In Monza last year he made a bit of a comeback but it was strategic which also demonstrates he can use his brain too.

          1. People have short-term memories, even over the course of a season!

      2. That small minority of people you refer to is actually rather large, unfortunately. But I agree with you; people like to clutch at straws and focus on the negatives, as few and far between as they may be.

        It’s a shame, really, but nowadays it only takes someone starting a thread on an internet forum about something, and then it spreads like wildfire and people start agreeing with it because it’s what they’d like to believe – whereas what they actually believe is different. As F1 is becoming more accessible online and everyone can read and comment about it, more daft theories are being created and as a result, drivers seem to get a hard time. I don’t remember Schumacher being slated for not overtaking to win, but that’s because outlets like this didn’t exist for fans, and if they did, they weren’t overly popular.

      3. Vettel is a top driver but his reputation is not complete. Remember, all of these things people say about him now were said about Hamilton after his title: easy to win in a dominant car, easy to win from up front, team favored him, etc. Some of that was said about Alonso after his titles too. These were fair doubts. Its as Icythes frames with the Damon Hill comparison. People will have doubts.

        Hamilton and Alonso earned their reputations as much from their work with crap cars as with dominant ones—after they were champions. Because F1 frequently sees champions in dominant cars, people look at these kinds of scenarios to separate the excellent from the exceptional. We have to.

        Rarely, however, do we see a different and potentially more useful scenario: A clearly dominant car decisively caught by the peleton. Indeed, the most notable recent example maintains a cloud over the driver in that case. Button failed to impress in the second half of 2009 after the Brawn was run down by the field.

        Now we have that case again. RBR is on the back foot after a shocking run of success. So we will have to see if Vettel comes out of this looking like Button. We will see if Vettel can continue to dominate his teammate, and continue to score wins. I think he will acquit himself properly, but this is the kind of test he has to meet to get a flawless reputation.

  9. I call PR BS on Domenicali.

    Is Alonso the best driver in F1? Of course he is. But I’m rather disturbed at Ferrari’s willingness to re-write the Schumacher years, without which they wouldn’t be where they are today. It’s a trend that has been going on for a while now and I don’t fully understand it. I definitely don’t think it’s deserved. Win two championships for the Scuderia and then perhaps Alonso’s tenure can be compared to what Michael did for the team.

    1. Agree but I feel it’s probably for Alonso’s benefit.

  10. That’s the thing India have to realise. When you get into bed with Bernie Ecclestone, it’s just never going to be completely satisfying. He has a whale of a time, you just lie there, getting repeatedly b***hslapped over and over again.

    1. Pretty much.

      Like how you put it. :D

  11. Younger Hamii
    7th August 2011, 11:18

    Not a Good pick for COTD,I think rfs makes valid and strong points when he’s talking about extracting maximum out of the Car and being as good as Fernando and Lewis but better than them,No way mate i dont think so

    1. He did justify his opinion with an example. That post there lacks one.

      1. The COTD example, with respect, is lousy. Hamilton, and half the field as well, lost out in a rain lottery melee, which has been described in detail elsewhere in this blog.

  12. I read the COTD yesterday and really hoped rfs would get awarded it. Brilliant comment. I rate Vettel just under Fernando for being one of the most complete (I hate that phrase) driver of the grid. I’m not sure about his pace compared to Lewis but he is ridiculously consistent, has blown Mark away this year and has made us forget his ‘Crash kid’ label he got last season which I find amusing as Whitmarsh or Dennis I believe gave it to him but look at the stick Hamilton has got this year :P

      1. Well done rfs. Brilliant COTD.

      2. Good comment Steph, and deserving COTD to rfs.

    1. Well said Steph

  13. Lucas - Mr. Veloce of Britalia - Yours With Wings
    7th August 2011, 15:14

    If I was Bernie, I’d put India as the last race of the season and put Korea in its place

  14. I’m sorry, but if he still wants the best out of Massa then Domenicali’s comments are unwise. I’m guessing he’s not that bothered though.

  15. I think it would be more surprising if Domenicali didn’t think Alonso was number 1, after all they tried very hard to get him and are paying him the top salary in F1…. you shouldn’t do that unless you believe he is No 1….. the comment would have had far more credibility if it had come from Martin Whitmarsh or Christian Horner, or if Domenicali had been praising a driver that didn’t drive for Ferrari…. but in the world of F1 that is never likely to happen.

  16. I think he’ll get the respect he deserves eventually. He’s too good not to.

    Another fan of Rfs’s comment of the day — well said. However, it seems F1 fans will always come up with reasons not to respect drivers they don’t want to respect, up to and including…well, everyone! Look at the things different people say about Schumacher, Senna, Prost — I can’t think of even one exception. There will always be some particular circumstance, some Achilles’ heel, some mitigating factor, some statistic that driver X’s fans hold as definitive proof of his awesomeness while others cite reasons why it makes no difference.

    Not that this is anything new, but a lot of times it seems to come down to which qualities different people value in a driver, more than any kind of objective truth that can be reached if everyone argues long enough. Although I suppose the act having the argument can be fun in itself!

Comments are closed.