Senna tipped to take Heidfeld’s seat at Renault

F1 Fanatic round-up

In the round-up: Bruno Senna is linked to Nick Heidfeld’s place at Renault.

Links

Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Renault ‘drop Heidfeld for Senna’ (BBC)

“The 27-year-old nephew of the late Brazilian legend Ayrton Senna is expected to race for Renault in the eight remaining races this season alongside Russian Vitaly Petrov.”

Raikkonen to test Peugeot’s LMP1

Kimi Raikkonen will test the Peugeot 908 Le Mans car at Spanish circuit Motorland Aragon on Wednesday.”

Jenson Button to compete at 2011 Race of Champions (Race of Champions)

“Formula 1 world champion Jenson Button will return to the Race Of Champions in 2011 after a year?s absence.”

Williams keen to build on Jaguar links (Autocar)

“??The Williams Formula 1 team would like to expand its involvement with Jaguar on the back of the radical and ambitious C-X75 partnership and progress to the point where the legendary British F1 squad becomes even more firmly involved with the multiple Le Mans winners in the future.”

Drive to lure F1 stars to Dublin’s streets for a race spectacular (Irish Independent)

“On June 3, the streets of the capital will be transformed into a ‘racing track’ for the inaugural City Racing Dublin.”

Diary: Button doesn’t push Tamara’s (The Independent)

“Miss Ecclestone also harbours a grudge against the dashing F1 star Jenson Button, apparently because he once answered his phone in her company.”

Martin Donnelly crash, part two: Roberto Moreno ?ǣ “I closed my eyes. I had to walk away” (Motorsport Retro)

“I saw him lying on the ground, and I closed my eyes, because I actually thought he was dead.”

Savouring Spa (YouTube)

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Comment of the day

Robbie is unhappy with the latest DRS rules fudge:

I haven?t been a fan of gadgets like this one from the get-go, and now with this debate going on I wish they would ban DRS all together.

Seems in the extreme cases if it isn?t too dangerous it promotes passes that make the one being passed look like he?s standing still.

Not my cup of tea and gives me more reason than ever to state that they need to stick with grippy tyres, less downforce through wing limitations i.e. less aero dependency, fewer gadgets, more stability in the rules, and let the drivers duke it out on the track so that we know we are seeing driver vs. driver, not gadget vs. gadget.
Robbie

From the forum

TommyB89 points out you know it’s the summer break when…

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to innim and Tom??s!

On this day in F1

The only Austrian Grand Prix held at Zeltweg was won on this day in 1964 by Lorenzo Bandini, after 105 laps of the short, 3.2km (1.98 mile) track.

Image ?? Renault/LAT

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119 comments on Senna tipped to take Heidfeld’s seat at Renault

  1. US_Peter (@us_peter) said on 23rd August 2011, 0:12

    That Ecclestone offspring sounds like even more of a spoiled brat than I imagined previously. Of course someone who is gifted their entire fortune through no hard work of their own would want to abolish inheritance taxes. I’m with Warren Buffet… dynastic wealth turns out nasty little people like this Ecclestone runt.

    • matt90 (@matt90) said on 23rd August 2011, 2:19

      ‘”Don’t call me a socialite, call me a businesswoman,” demanded the socialite Tamara Ecclestone’

      Brilliant.

      • Hamish said on 23rd August 2011, 3:08

        Has as much credibility as Paris Hilton saying that.

      • Mike said on 23rd August 2011, 3:38

        Great bit of writing that. :D

        I feel sad for Heidfeld, but he simply hasn’t out performed Petrov, so I’m really not surprised.

        On the other hand, Senna? Really? I just don’t think he has what it takes.

        (However I would like to see him given a shot, it’s just realistically I can’t see it happening for him.)

        • he simply hasn’t out performed Petrov

          Well… he is ahead of Petrov in the points table. Nick hasn’t exactly eclipsed him, but to claim that his performances aren’t up to scratch would be really harsh IMO. How often is a driver dropped when he’s ahead of his teammate on points?

          It’s a bit of shame if we’ve seen the last of Heidfeld, I’ve always had a soft spot for Quick Nick.

        • Kenny (@kenny) said on 23rd August 2011, 11:01

          Senna has money, as the article points out, and it will be interesting to see how he fares in car that is at least a points scorer.

      • BasCB (@bascb) said on 23rd August 2011, 7:21

        :-)

  2. soulmonkey said on 23rd August 2011, 0:13

    Senna would be a very good addition for Renault in place of Heidfeld. I hope this move happens.

    • AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 23rd August 2011, 0:15

      Well he wasn’t good enough for them at the beginning of the season and he still has less experience than Heidfeld.

      Would be nice to see Senna given another shot but i’m not sure why they would do it now, unless they don’t expect Kubica back next season.

      • Jonathan said on 23rd August 2011, 1:51

        I am with Senna at this point. Renault has nothing to lose, they are obviously not keen on keeping Heidfeld for next seaon, as their team boss has implied on several occassions.

        Renault’s car can barely make it into Q3, let alone scoring points. They are comfortably ahead of Sauber and Force India, so I think it’s a great move to ditch Heidfeld to try out new drivers for next season (’cause let’s be honest I doubt Kubica will recover in time for next season). Plus this would give Senna a chance to get up to speed.

        Win-win really, as long as Senna isn’t miles behind Petrov.

        • Mike said on 23rd August 2011, 3:42

          But why Senna? Why not try and pick up another up and coming driver?

          • PieLighter said on 23rd August 2011, 6:17

            A yellow helmet in a black and gold “Lotus”? :)

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 23rd August 2011, 6:22

            But why Senna? Why not try and pick up another up and coming driver?

            Because the only other choice is Romain Grosjean. Grosjean can claim the GP2 title at Spa, but if he competes in Formula 1, he’s not allowed to take part in the GP2 races. Renault might want to put him in the seat alongside Petrov, but they also want him to win the GP2 title because it will improve his chances of securing a full-time drive next year should Robert Kubica make a return.

          • BasCB (@bascb) said on 23rd August 2011, 7:00

            Because Bruno is their 3rd driver, so should be first in place as replacement and the recent move by Lopez to throw GenII together with the Brazillian WWI will surely have helped his prospects (extra money to pay the bills?).

            Wouldn’t be supprised to see them put in Grosjean for a few races as well, after he clinches the GP2 title though. It could boost his value or evaluate his as potential Kubica replacement.
            And who knows, maybe even Robert might return to the cockpit in a race or FP session.

          • Cyclops_PL (@cyclops_pl) said on 23rd August 2011, 8:59

            Besides he comes with a nice package of $$$ and there’s never too much of them. Anyway, until it’s confirmed I remain skeptical about this news, especially with the fact it originated from EJ.

          • matt90 (@matt90) said on 23rd August 2011, 12:54

            Removing Grosjean and dropping him in mid-season again would be a mistake. Yes he’ll be better prepared this time, but it sounds too much like history repeating itself. Plus Grosjean will probably want to finally win the GP2 series.

            The reason Senna isn’t in F1 isn’t because he is bad, it’s just that he ran out of space on the grid. I’d like to see him given a shot with a team that isn’t hopeless, and he probably needs that chance. He’s Renault’s reserve because he was unlucky enough not to find an opening on the grid. Heidfeld was probably picked because of the need for experience and consistency. But now that Petrov has performed almost as well and is no longer a rookie they can justify replacing Heidfeld for a rookie, as Heidfeld’s role is being performed adequately by Petrov.

      • Fixy (@fixy) said on 23rd August 2011, 18:45

        Renault might want to evaluate Senna to see if Grosjean would be a better choice for 2012, if Kubica had problems with his comeback. They know Heidfeld won’t be with them, will they have Senna or Grosjean as no. 1 substitutes for Kubica?

    • TommyC said on 23rd August 2011, 0:54

      well, what has renault got to lose? Their car this year has largley been a failure. why not train up a promising rookie for the remainder of the season to at least see if he could match Heidfeld. With a bit of experience by the end of the year, there’s no reason why a Senna/Petrov combination for 2012 would be no more competitive than the current driver line-up in the event of Kubica being unfit to drive.

      • unocv12 said on 23rd August 2011, 4:03

        @Mike,

        Why Senna? well 2 reasons stand out obviously..

        1) They already have him under contract

        2) They have tested him against Hiedfeld in testing and then again at the last (Hungary) Gran Prix.

        They have obviously decided that Senna mathces up quite favourably and hence are giving him a try

        • Scalextric (@scalextric) said on 23rd August 2011, 4:38

          3) He comes with a few million quid.

          Best of luck to him, whatever the reason.

          • Reponse to 3) so, technically does Fernando Alonso

          • Tamara Ecclestone comes with a few billion quid – she should replace Heidfeld at Renault.

          • unocv12 said on 23rd August 2011, 8:39

            Who on the grid cn’t be boiled down to money?

            McLaren – Hamilton is paid massive amounts compared to Kimi and Alonso and brings massive publicity. Button and Hamilton brings the British double which is great for sponsorship.
            Red Bull – Vettel rakes in the cash as the young german speaking guy. Webber is rumoured to have come with the renault engines. (favlio bargaining style)
            Ferrari – Alonso wouldn’t have got the seat without the money from Santander (see Alonso is a pay driver ;)). Massa, probably not much but until Germany 2010 he was popular in Brazil and that is a new big market for Fiat which owns Ferrari.

            Force India – Sutil brings money, and Di Resta comes with ‘assistance from mercedes’. Hulkenberg said he wouldn’t pay for a drive and he now doesn’t have a drive. Thought may have money to get back in.

            Sauber. Toyota was willing to ensure Kobayashi had a seat, although they didn’t need to, Kobayashi brings attention from Japan. Perez has mexican money

            Williams. Barichello doesn’t, while Maldo does.

            Mercedes. Schumacher get more from sponsorship personally than most others get in paycheques. He brings attention and name so more sponsors join Mercedes. Rosberg doesn’t.

            HRT. Yes yes bloody hell yes.

            Virgin. Glock no, D’Ambrosio and Di Grassi yes.

            Lotus. No. Only team not looking to flog thier drivers worth I think!

            Torro Rosso. Maybe these guys too.. but the whole thing is a commercial oporation, and thenneed 2 and that’s the best they can get.

            Renault – Petrov yes, Heidfeld no.

            So that’s pretty much… everyone brings money BAR (excuse the pun)
            Heidfeld, Barichello, Rosberg, Heikki, Trulli, Glock

            Probably Massa isn’t comercially driven either nor is Kobayashi (talent formost, Sauber said himself and hes gone the rookie talent path many a time)

          • @unocv12

            I’m fairly sure Liuzzi is on a salary.

          • laird18 said on 23rd August 2011, 10:13

            I don’t think it’s accurate to say that Di Resta is a pay driver. Mercedes back him because of his talent, not because of his marketing potential.

          • Xanathos said on 23rd August 2011, 12:02

            Well, almost every driver had to bring money at some point in their career. But also almost every driver who managed to hold on to their seat did so because of his performances. To say that Di resta is there only because of his talent and Sutil is the pay driver at Force India is simplifying things a bit too much, I think.

          • Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta) said on 23rd August 2011, 15:14

            Jon, Liuzzi is on a salary… …the settlement, whatever it turned out to be, for Force India not completing his contract.

    • JCost (@jcost) said on 23rd August 2011, 7:02

      I wish him luck. I was fairly impressed by both Bruno Senna and Lucas Di Grassi back in 2007 in Spain, I was in Circuit de Catalunya for the F1 race and those two made a solid race for the GP2 series, I hope Lucas gets back too.

      • another example of the cult of personality surrounding team wanna be lotus.

        Sure their two drivers might be salaried, but theres a reason karun got the drive at silverstone…………money…..not to mention ricardo teixeira and luiz razia waiting in the wings with their sacks of cash

  3. AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 23rd August 2011, 0:14

    I think DRS should hang around at least until the end of the season. The FIA did say that the system was very much in it’s infancy and that we had to expect changes or exceptions to the rule.

    I quite like the system, but I think that with anything new introduced it should be reviewed when it’s both convenient and fair; season end.

  4. bananarama said on 23rd August 2011, 0:17

    I like all of that ..

    I want to see Senna as good as Petrov (still no idea why I like the brazilian guy so much..).
    And I want to see Raikkonen go insanely fast in a LeMans car and potentially race in that series a bit and win the 24 hours.
    Also like Button in the race of champions (I’ll probably go there so the more F1 drivers the better!). Its also good that he didn’t care enough for that Ecclestone missy to keep up a conversation with her :-P
    Williams doing something is always good news aswell. They need to keep doing stuff to survive.

    Man, this could become a good day ..

    • unocv12 said on 23rd August 2011, 3:02

      Agree with lots of stuff that you just said bananarama!
      I want Senna to be atleast as good as Petrov.

      I want Raikkonen to smash land speed records in the LMP1 car and then go on to win there.

      I like more F1 drivers going to RoC and someone needs to tell little miss e to shutit

    • BasCB (@bascb) said on 23rd August 2011, 7:02

      And then in 2013 Kimi should go out, do an Indy car season (combined with some NASCAR races, just for the cash fun of it?) and get the triple crown!

  5. If Renault do indeed replace Heidfeld, then that tells me a few things:

    Firstly it shows that Renault are really desparate for cash which Senna brings to the team. Also there is no word on Renault being unhappy with Petrov despite him being second best to Heidfeld. Last year when Boullier was unhappy with Petrov, he proceeded to give him a two year deal.

    I also gather that Renault can’t accept that they have fallen behind so much, that they can barely score points anymore. I feel that Renault just want to blame Heidfeld for the teams lack of pace, and again I hear nothing about Petrov who always falls back in races, whilst Heidfeld has mostly moved forward.

    I also think that Renault seriously believe that Kubica would be miles ahead of Heidfeld if he was driving the car, which I strongly doubt. In 2009 when Kubica drove an uncompetitive BMW, he mostly struggled. Kubica may have a few more points, but that’s about as far as I would go.

    Heidfeld has done a solid job in a car which can barely get into the top ten at the moment. His qualifying could improve, but he has been very good on race day, which Boullier admitted. Heidfeld has had a few difficult races recently, but that hasn’t entirely been on lack of pace, if he was off the pace.

    • US_Peter (@us_peter) said on 23rd August 2011, 0:40

      That’s all true, but Heidfeld is definitely not a long term prospect for the team’s future, so it makes sense for them to test the waters with Senna AND Grosjean before the season’s out to see who would be a better long term prospect assuming Kubica doesn’t return and/or Petrov is dropped. Especially considering that this year’s essentially already a write off for them considering they were talking about potentially winning races back at the beginning of the season.

    • Jonathan said on 23rd August 2011, 1:57

      Given how much Boullier has been complaining about Heidfeld’s lack of pace, and his lack of leadership in the team, it really is a no surprise that Renault replaced him with Senna.

      I think Renault would have replaced Senna even if there wasn’t any money involved. Renault’s car can barely make it into the poitns lately, so they got nothing to lose really.

      • unocv12 said on 23rd August 2011, 4:11

        Senna and Petrov both have something that Hiedfeld doesn’t…. lack of experience.

        When you have Heidfeld, you get what you get, he isn’t going to improve, he has been driving for ages and hence great at car development and consistant, but if you don’t like his pace then he isn’t going to make a jump half way through the year.

        Petrov apart from his cash is still improving and he is a much better driver now then at the end of last year. And preumably he will bebetter by the end of this year. Heidfeld wont improve.

        Senna has had 1 season in a crap oversteery understeery gp2esk f1 car. He started racing late and has improved MASSIVELY over his few years in motorsport.

        Odds are that he will improve quite a lot over what he is currently and as such putting a Senna in the car might just open the door more than Heidfeld can right now.

        It’s not just about who is fastest this weekend but in 4 races time, would Senna then be as fast? How about 6 races, could he be a bit faster? and by the end of the year could he be even a bit more fsater?

        Quite likely given his record and the fact he hasn’t got the experience to show all his speed now.

        That’s why

        • BasCB (@bascb) said on 23rd August 2011, 7:06

          Yeah, and as they also run Gravity, a driver development company, they should be looking at driver development.

          Only thing strange then is the fact they signed up Heidfeld in the first place. Could have gone for Hulkenberg, for example. I guess that choise was a lot to do with being optimistic that Kubica would return to the car even during the season.

      • I think a lot of the pressure Boullier has put on Heidfeld is unnecessary. When the car was capable of points, Heidfeld frequently scored points and finished ahead of Petrov. With the pace if the car, I can’t see why that’s not good enough. If Boullier expected more podiums from Turkey and onwards, then he is deluded. Renault couldn’t challenge Ferrari and McLaren anymore, and now they’re struggling to challenge Sauber and Force India. Heidfeld is good, but he isn’t superman, I can’t see how anyone could get that Renault on the podium at the moment.

  6. Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 23rd August 2011, 0:26

    Renault has something against Heidfeld OR they have been offered a nice sum of money to replace him and put Senna in instead.

    Otherwise, it just doesn’t make too much sense. What are they expecting Nick to do if the car’s not good enough? He’s no Kubica, they should know that.

    • bananarama said on 23rd August 2011, 0:36

      How much more could Kubica have gotten out of the car this season? Not much I suppose. He would have been in front of Petrov almost every race .. which Heidfeld usually is too.

      On a more lighthearted note: they try to bully Heidfeld out of Renault so much, they repeatedly tried to set him on fire …

      Not sure where the hate is coming from but I’d be happy to see Senna do well. On the other hand this wouldn’t be a nice end to Nicks career (getting sacked now would probably be the end of it I suppose).

      • polishboy808 said on 23rd August 2011, 3:23

        I wouldn’t be so sure on “Not much”. I think he could finish in the points consistently. Im not saying he would win every race, but realistically speaking, he could score points in every races like in 2010*.

        *The only time he didn’t score points is when he didn’t finish or he was spun (Bahrain), so he still almost always FINISHED in the points.

        • BasCB (@bascb) said on 23rd August 2011, 7:12

          I agree with polishboy808, that Kubice could have gotten more out of that car.

          First of all it was designed for his style, which is quite different from Heifelds. And Kubica would have pushed the team more and would probably have gotten a few more stellar starting grid positions, giving him a tad better shot at being the best of the rest.

          • bosyber said on 23rd August 2011, 10:37

            And Kubica also wouldn’t have stood for that spring season lack of upgrades, in that sense he would have lead the team to get it sorted, I think. Heidfeld wasn’t able to do that.

            I do have to say that he never would have been able to, having been drafted only a few weeks before the start of the season, so Renault expecting it of him were already a bit silly, and more so because they never looked like giving him the mantle of leadership.

            While last year the team looked good, this year, frankly, as a team, they look a bit silly, talking themselves up but not being worth all that much. James Allison still is a great guy, so I have hope for the team, but the managers? Not so much.

        • laird18 said on 23rd August 2011, 10:36

          The reality is that with Kubica’s injury Renault have been left with no good measure of performance.

          Their driver line up this year has been a complete shambles – the worst on the grid – and has shown the folly of going for a first-driver/pay-driver combination. I honestly think that Renault’s poor performance this year has largely been down to the drivers. Heidfeld and Petrov are doing a Badoer/Fisi style job for that team. There is no way that Renault should be behind the likes of Force India, Sauber and Torro Rosso on race day.

          And from now they’ll be running two pay-drivers, of questionable talent… Good luck to Bruno, but through Renault’s greed and a disrespect for the importance of driver talent, I think we’re seeing the biggest implosion of an established F1 team in recent years.

          • bosyber said on 23rd August 2011, 10:40

            Well said. I don’t think the drivers are the only problem, but clearly both Fisi and Badoer were plunked into a car that was hard to drive, and weren’t given the means to get good results, consequently then failing to impress in the F60, in that respect you are right.

            And very true about the management of the team: questionable.

      • Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 23rd August 2011, 23:48

        I think he would’ve done a lot better. Maybe not during the season, but at those places Kubica excels (Monaco for instance) he’d have done a much better job than both Heidfeld an Petrov.

      • HelloKittyF1 said on 25th August 2011, 21:32

        Much much more i suppose, I guess Kubica would have twice more points than Heidfeld.

  7. James said on 23rd August 2011, 0:30

    In that article it says that Tamara Eccelstone would abolish inheritance tax. Funny that.

  8. Zadak said on 23rd August 2011, 1:19

    As Zadak once said…

    Heidfeld seems to have lost his amazing ability to finish every race he’s started.

    His luck has run out, and so has his contract.

    • polishboy808 said on 23rd August 2011, 3:25

      If you didn’t start that with “As Zadak once said…” I would have agreed with you so much more…

  9. sato113 said on 23rd August 2011, 1:25

    would anyone agree with me in thinking that the DRS zone for spa is too long? I think we might have another Istanbul situation whereby cars are overtaking far too easily…

  10. MGriffin90 (@mgriffin90) said on 23rd August 2011, 1:49

    Good to see Senna potentially back in F1 but when if he doesn’t perform well immediately, both the fans and the tabloid section of the press will crucify him.

    Sad really.

  11. Damn. Safe to say Jessica Michibata and Tamara Ecclestone won’t be seen shopping in the city anytime soon!

  12. Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 23rd August 2011, 2:07

    Seems in the extreme cases if it isn’t too dangerous it promotes passes that make the one being passed look like he’s standing still.

    Not true at all. The DRS enables a driver to get in a position where he can pull off a pass, usually by getting his front wing alongside the rear wheels of the car in front. No more. If ever a driver makes a pass that “makes the one being passed look like he’s standing still”, it’s usually because the difference in speed between the two drivers is so great that the pass would have happened regardless of the DRS.

    • bosyber said on 23rd August 2011, 10:42

      Which makes it stupid that it is there, so, well, there: quite true, actually, as you just explained.

    • laird18 said on 23rd August 2011, 10:42

      Eh, what races have you been watching??? DRS has consistently lead to overtakes well before the corner, and denied us many exciting racing opportunities this year. It’s a bad joke. Get rid of it.

      • Robbie said on 23rd August 2011, 15:20

        Have to disagree with you there PM…the extreme difference in speed is caused by the driver behind being able to release some downforce on a straight where downforce is not needed like it is in a corner. So for the driver behind it is like having a turbo boost button. So without the gadget the difference in speed would be less than you are implying. And if a driver following has been able to catch some speed down a straight through drafting (assuming DRS didn’t exist), which is a bit similar to the DRS effect, said drafting still brings the racing further into the corner and makes it far more seat of the pants than DRS provides.

        My other point being, it is a gadget, and it is a gadget that can be dangerous at times too, and therefore has to be debated by the race. Not my cup of tea.

        I’d rather see a driver ‘enabled to get in a position where he can pull off a pass’ because he got a better run off the previous corner to start down the straight, and because he wasn’t so unsettled by being in dirty air that he had no confidence in the car to pull off the pass leading up to the next turn. Instead, a button instills said confidence and the driver in front is left defenceless due to the extreme speed difference.

    • David-A (@david-a) said on 23rd August 2011, 20:26

      The DRS enables a driver to get in a position where he can pull off a pass, usually by getting his front wing alongside the rear wheels of the car in front. No more.

      The extra speed gained from the DRS will not drop off entirely once the following driver pulls out of the slipstream. The speed advantage would remain long enough for the following driver to zip by as if the other dirver was standing still. Robbie’s comment was right, and deserving of COTD.

  13. raymondu999 (@raymondu999) said on 23rd August 2011, 2:41

    I still think if Hulkenberg were a Renault reserve driver, they wouldn’t bother with a shootout and straight away go for a Hulkenberg-Petrov pairing

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 23rd August 2011, 6:42

      But Hulkenberg isn’t a Renault test driver. And if he was, I don’t think the team would take him. Makyeb it’s just me, but after seeing them in GP2, I always got the feeling they don’t really like one another.

      • raymondu999 (@raymondu999) said on 23rd August 2011, 7:13

        Well they were rivals for the GP2 title. It happens.

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 23rd August 2011, 10:18

          Not necessarily. You can have a friendly rivalry. But based on what I saw, Petrov and Hulkenberg really did not get along – Hulkenberg seemed to think Petrov was unpredictable and a danger because he would have a go given half a chance; Petrov seemed to think Hulkenberg expected people to leave him alone once he had passed them.

          Of course, that’s just my perception given a few of their post-race comments in GP2.

          • raymondu999 (@raymondu999) said on 24th August 2011, 2:13

            Could be true; but then again, remember Petrov took Hulkenberg out in spectacular fashion at the start in Suzuka 2010; though that shouldn’t affect their GP2 year

  14. Rahim.RG said on 23rd August 2011, 3:17

    Haha…Raikkonen is having fun now..
    LeMans will be perfect..

  15. wasiF1 (@wasif1) said on 23rd August 2011, 3:42

    Kimi is trying everything that is out there except for F1.

  16. Johnny Flavio said on 23rd August 2011, 6:14

    @ Prisoner Monkeys

    You are completely wrong in your thinking! The onus is on Senna to prove he deserves the seat, and the way to do that is to win public votes fairly and squarely, not by garnering sympathy factor on twitter! All Senna proved was that he is good at getting sympathy, which is why he got such a panning by the press. “That looked incredibly easy” (i.e. “My grandmother can get to drive the Lotus!”)
    Heidfield was in front because he used better tactics and skill than every other person in F1, and for someone to turn around and say “You want to a drive, so you have to give the place to him” is a total affront in any sport and is proof alone that Senna didn’t deserve the drive. Every driver in lotus list wants to drive, which is why they are there! That is why it is called a “team”!
    Would Senna being test driver have reduced the achievements of him? No.
    There are only two arguments that might justify Senna being given the undeserved win: 1) If hulme could win the second driver or first for lotus and Heidfield believed he could not, then there would be a tactical advantage gained by Heidfield next year by his placement in the lotus or maybe mercedes test driver role if he gave the Seat to Senna, who in turn did actually get to drive for the rest of the year (so Heidfield obviously believed there was insufficient merit in this argument for him to give the place to Senna or he would have given the place to him voluntarily); and 2) That by giving the place to Senna there was a significantly bigger financial reward both to Senna and to Heidfield than by Heidfield driving (and again, he knew this was not the case otherwise he would just have done so, and whatever Bruno Senna’s financial rewards or losses are, that should be of no interest to Heidfield).
    In the lotus second driver position argument, the onus is upon Heidfield himself to decide that he can benefit from allowing Senna to drive, not upon the Renault or Lotus board to decide for him, because their interest is to have two drivers on the list, one of which wins (i.e. either driver wins), so they can sell advertising. Since the public decided for him, it is again proof that Heidfield preferred the prestige and financial rewards of driving over any future tactical advantage that he may gain in the lotus renault or mercedes board.
    Conclusion: Senna will lose the seat at the expense of Heidfield’s (literally, because Heidfield didn’t get the drive, therefore no bonus to him, nor will the argument carry much weight when the renault board decides for themselves) all because Senna, who’s skill and tactics (like every other driver ) were inferior to Heidfield’s.

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 23rd August 2011, 7:12

      The onus is on Senna to prove he deserves the seat, and the way to do that is to win public votes fairly and squarely, not by garnering sympathy factor on twitter!

      I never said anything about Senna using Twitter to gain public support. Yesterday I said Senna would get the seat because he had shown that he deserved it rather than because he has a famous name.

      Today I said that Senna would get the seat instead of Grosjean because Renault don’t want to interfere with his GP2 title bid. This, naturally assumes that Heidfeld is already on the way out and therefore it will be necessary to replace him.

      So I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.

      • Johnny Flavio said on 23rd August 2011, 7:44

        prisoner monkeys you said the other day that senna is going to drive the lotus because romain grosjohn who wins the gp 2 is already drive for them in 2009 so senna is more probability for him driving lotus,even more than heidfield and romain grosjean but senna say on twitter to support him by the peoples!! is that fair? heidfiel is the master of driving because he is driving f1 cars since 2000 and is also fas tand speak german very good, but for someone to turn around and say “You want to a drive, so you have to give the place to him” is a total shame in any sport and is proof alone that Senna didn’t deserve the drive he leave mercedes gp but when schumacher retire he want to go back there but senna is just test driver nad not race day driver so he first want to do some practice in gp2 to racing before he came to lotus in my view. but romain grosjean.but for is better because he is winning gp 2 championship and senna not win his gp2. but now you prisoner monkeys say Senna should driver the Lotus?? why ? you cannot even justify your stand properly prisoner monkeys.

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 23rd August 2011, 10:26

          you said the other day that senna is going to drive the lotus because romain grosjohn who wins the gp 2 is already drive for them in 2009 so senna is more probability for him driving lotus,even more than heidfield and romain grosjean but senna say on twitter to support him by the peoples

          I said absolutely nothing of the sort.

          I said that Senna will get the seat because Renault will not give it to Grosjean. Grosjean is currently competing in GP2, and is the favourite to win the title. He can pick it up at Spa this weekend. Doing so would make him more employable in 2012 – every GP2 champion (except Giorgio Pantano) has gone on to drive for a Formula 1 team the following year.

          However, the problem with this is that GP2 rules state that any driver who compete in a Formula 1 Grand Prix – at an event where GP2 is a support race – may not participate in the GP2 event. Grosjean currently has 74 points, ahead of Giedo van der Garde on 49, and could reasonably join Renault without jeopardising his GP2 title, but Renault will not risk it.

          I never said anything about Renault giving Bruno Senna a drive simply because Romain Grosjean had already driven for them. I don’t know where you got that idea from.

    • BasCB (@bascb) said on 23rd August 2011, 7:24

      @ Johnny Flavio

      I really don’t get what you are on to here (where does Hulme get into it, what Senna win?)

      • Johnny Flavio said on 23rd August 2011, 8:10

        bascb what i told is even hulme died like ayrton senna while racing when he must have actually won bathrust and senna imola.

        • Hamish said on 23rd August 2011, 10:53

          Johnny Flavio Denny Hulme was never in with a chance of winning at Bathurst that year. If he was alive he’d admit that himself.

          If you weren’t in a GTR that year, or a Sierra, you had no chance.

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 23rd August 2011, 10:56

          Actually, Denny Hulme wouldn’t have won the 1992 Bathurst 1000. The car was nowhere near competitive all weekend.

    • Adrian J said on 23rd August 2011, 7:27

      Sorry, I found that really hard to understand…

      …and only partially because it took me a little while to realise you meant Renault when you were saying Lotus…

      • Johnny Flavio said on 23rd August 2011, 7:46

        You please see my reply to prisoners monkeys, if you read what prisoner monkeys wrote yesterday you will understand what i wrote in my reply. but prisoner monkeys always twisting facts…

        • Jarred Walmsley said on 23rd August 2011, 9:31

          Actually, combining your poor english (not necessarily your fault if its not your first language), your poor examples, referring to teams by different names, your reply to PM becomes incredibly hard to understand

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 23rd August 2011, 10:57

          if you read what prisoner monkeys wrote yesterday you will understand what i wrote in my reply

          Except that I didn’t say anything that you claim I did. I’ve never mentioned Twitter and Bruno Senna in the same sentence.

  17. Icthyes said on 23rd August 2011, 9:19

    Like I said yesterday, this problem comes from allowing DRS in qualifying, not the existence of the DRS itself. People calling for it to be scrapped are just looking for excuses instead of facing facts: F1 is NOT going to change to low aero-downforce any time soon, so the DRS is the best we’re going to get in solving the aero problem. That means the FIA being sensible over where it’s put and when it can be used, something it has been failing at for most of the year.

    • Magnificent Geoffrey (@magnificent-geoffrey) said on 23rd August 2011, 9:29

      In my opinion, the DRS positioning has been:

      Australia: Perfect
      Malaysia: Perfect
      China: Perfect
      Turkey: Wrong place
      Spain: Perfect
      Monaco: Perfect
      Canada: Wrong place and no need for two zones
      Valencia: Right places, but needed about 3 more zones!
      Britain: Probably the best place to put it in hindsight
      Germany: Perfect
      Hungary: Perfect
      Spa: I feel it’s in the wrong place, but we’ll see

      • Icthyes said on 23rd August 2011, 9:41

        In my opinion the only place I feel they got it right was Monaco, Valencia and Hungary – but only because there were no other places to put it – and in Silverstone and Germany

      • laird18 said on 23rd August 2011, 10:55

        They could make DRS slightly more bearable by allowing the following driver to use it at any point on the track, and reducing it’s effectiveness accordingly.

        I can’t understand how serious F1 fans can enter debates about the DRS positioning without realising that what they’re talking about is completely artificial racing.

        • Magnificent Geoffrey (@magnificent-geoffrey) said on 23rd August 2011, 14:39

          How is it any more artificial than the racing produced by using tyres that are deliberately designed to fall apart after a certain number of laps? And as I keep saying, the majority of DRS attempts do not result in overtakes, so this fallacy I keep hearing about DRS is artificial because defending drivers are actually defenceless is completely untrue in my opinion.

          • Icthyes (@icthyes) said on 23rd August 2011, 14:46

            To be fair, the tyres are the same for all. DRS isn’t, although it attempts to create such a situation. The inconsistency comes in aero rules that make it easier for the defending driver and it seems some people would rather have that and no DRS, than have it and DRS.

          • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 23rd August 2011, 14:47

            How is it any more artificial than the racing produced by using tyres that are deliberately designed to fall apart after a certain number of laps?

            Because all drivers have to use the same tyres, but a leading driver cannot use DRS to defend himself.

          • BasCB (@bascb) said on 23rd August 2011, 15:07

            to me the big difference is, that DRS is an attempt at a workaround for an undesirable situation (due to the aerowake cars cannot follow each other without losing massive amounts of grip) by using something advantaging the driver behind.
            Instead of finding a olution to the real problem. I could see the logic in waiting till 2013 (now 2014) for those big changes.

            But it seems we are stuck with DRS for good now. So at least they should finetune it to make only for being able to keep close over a lap and use LED lighs on the outside of the car (i liked that SWIFT idea) to show more clearly when someone is using it.

          • Because all drivers have to use the same tyres, but a leading driver cannot use DRS to defend himself.

            But that’s true no matter who is leading.

            It’s not like the leading driver has to deal with dirty air in the fast corners is it?

            If you are within range you can use it, it’s the same for everyone.

    • Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta) said on 23rd August 2011, 16:04

      When DRS makes racing more unpredictable, instead of the opposite as currently happens, then I might be convinced to accept its presence. As it stands, it appears to replace one problem with a worse problem.

      • Icthyes (@icthyes) said on 23rd August 2011, 17:52

        But that’s just a matter of perspective. I find it more ridiculous that you can’t get past a car this is clearly slower than you than a car that is already faster getting an extra boost.

        The idea that DRS makes things predictable is also a bit of a fallacy. How long did it take Button to get passed Massa in Australia? Massa on Rosberg in Turkey? Even Webber took his sweet time getting passed Schumacher in Canada. Hamilton had DRS in Spain, but he never got passed Vettel; Vettel also defended against a DRS pass from Hamilton in China. Hamilton himself was able to defend against Alonso for two laps at Silverstone and many more against Vettel.

        • Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta) said on 23rd August 2011, 22:59

          Statistically, it’s not a fallacy at all: Making Up The Numbers has an excellent blog entry demonstrating that 2011 has been more predictable than 2010, and a lot of it is because many of the DRS moves are cancelling each other out – partly because the advantage flips over each time an overtake happens. DRS moves, especially in the midfield, frequently don’t stick.

  18. I personally think that Senna should get a few races this season, its nothing to do with whether Heidfeld has done or is doing a good or bad job really, as has been mentioned before he is likely to be a non improving asset to Renault. He has been in the sport a long time so is very experienced with car development etc but even with this fact the team are not advancing at any kind of rate as they were expecting and are clearly in no position for glory this season.

    So as they time nears where the team will likely move development focus to its 2012 challenger now is the perfect time for Senna (contracted 3rd Driver) to get some race time in the car. What we have seen from him in F1 is not the best for comparison as his first season was with HRT; a new team who very nearly didnt even have a car built for the 1st GP of their debut season so hardly the best environment in which to flourish or impress, driving an impossibly unbalanced and underpowered (not to mention unreliable) car would make the likes of Alonso/Schumacher/Vettel/Hamilton look very much like “not very fast” drivers!!

    So to all that say Senna does not “deserve” the drive need to have a little more of an open minded approach and maybe be a little less negative about it, quick Nick has had time enough to impress and needless to say has done a great job as he always does, even though he has had a few ‘unlucky’ moments this year. But Senna has the “POTENTIAL” to be even better so it looks like Renault are going to give it a go!

    Bruno started racing much later than some of the other ‘rookies’ in F1 and if you look at his record he has gone through somewhat of an accelerated learning curve of constant improvement compared to the rest of the field and with the Renault still not being the best car on grid by some margin it is clearly light years ahead of the HRT of 2010 and if nothing else will give the boy a “fair crack of the whip” to shows us what he is made of?? So at the end of the day all Senna can ask for is the opportunity to show the team his worth. I for one wish him and the team the best of luck at Spa and also hope to see Kubica back soon. :)

  19. sozavele (@formula-1) said on 23rd August 2011, 10:24

    According to BBC F1 Eddie Jordan, Heidfield has been dropped for Belgium and Bruno Senna is driving and if all goes well Heidfield will have the chop for good.

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