Mercedes: Schumacher climbs 19 places to fifth

2011 Belgian GP team review

Mercedes had their best result of the season so far in Spa.

Michael Schumacher Nico Rosberg
Qualifying position 24 5
Qualifying time comparison (None) No time
Race position 5 6
Laps 44/44 44/44
Pit stops 3 2

Mercedes drivers’ lap times throughout the race (in seconds):

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/charts/2011drivercolours.csv
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44
Michael Schumacher 128.39 118.669 117.961 120.908 127.857 115.502 115.468 115.163 115.455 115.974 117.569 116.292 134.369 155.767 170.986 167.727 115.924 115.005 114.736 114.398 114.743 114.556 114.436 115.048 114.19 114.868 114.721 114.726 114.916 115.37 118.083 126.974 111.509 111.137 111.748 111.759 112.026 112.298 112.518 112.027 113.115 112.332 112.592 112.545
Nico Rosberg 119.687 117.378 117.652 116.624 116.963 116.966 117.906 117.586 117.076 118.029 120.827 131.377 129.54 152.829 172.647 169.382 115.017 114.476 114.108 114.32 114.46 114.302 114.235 114.332 115.073 115.722 114.997 114.988 115.364 118.645 127.181 112.456 112.279 112.308 112.566 112.409 112.44 112.426 112.263 112.374 113.477 113.48 112.677 112.723
Michael Schumacher, Mercedes, Spa-Francorchamps, 2011

Michael Schumacher, Mercedes, Spa-Francorchamps, 2011

Michael Schumacher

Schumacher started his 20th anniversary race weekend by going fastest in first practice. But qualifying was ruined when a cross-threaded wheel nut caused the car to shed its right-rear wheel at Malmedy. Schumacher was helpless to avoid a crash which left him last on the grid.

He dodged the first-corner crash at the start and picked off the two Virgins on the Keemel straight to end the first lap in 15th place.

He passed Paul di Resta at Les Combes on lap two, avoiding a penalty despite cutting the corner as he went around the outside of the Force India.

Three laps later he pitted to discard the medium tyres he had started on and run the rest of the race on softs. He came out in front of Jenson Button, and after both took advantage of the safety car to pit again, they climbed through the pack into the points.

Button took Schumacher on lap 21 but the Mercedes driver continued to make progress. He demoted Adrian Sutil on lap 34 and the caught his team mate, who he passed to finish in a remarkable fifth place.

Schumacher felt that was the limit of what the car could do on the day: “I think more than fifth place would not have been possible today but making up 19 places was a good feeling.”

Michael Schumacher 2011 form guide

Nico Rosberg

Rosberg took fifth on the grid, flying through first sector quicker than anyone else.

He made an exceptional start to take second, then used the Mercedes’ excellent straight line speed to take the lead off Sebastian Vettel at Les Combes.

But when DRS was activated on lap three Vettel came past Rosberg again for the lead. Vettel pitted three laps later but Rosberg lost out to a pair of DRS-powered overtakes from Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton.

Rosberg slipped behind Massa during the safety car period but immediately passed the Ferrari at the restart. Ten laps later he surrendered fourth place to Button.

Running a conventional strategy, Rosberg used the medium tyres for the last stint, but that left him vulnerable to his recovering team mate. He held Schumacher off for a few laps, but was also being told to save fuel, which the team later insisted was not a coded team order to let Schumacher past.

Schumacher took Rosberg with two laps to go, leaving him sixth. Ross Brawn said afterwards: “Towards the end, we told him to trim his fuel: although we had a Safety Car period, one doesn’t use this to save fuel under the current rules because any fuel saved is simply extra weight carried through the rest of the race, and at that point his fuel consumption was on target.

“In any case, it didn’t cost him a significant amount of lap time, and the decisive factor was that Michael was on the soft tyre at the end while Nico was on the medium, which was around a second a lap slower.”

Nico Rosberg 2011 form guide

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82 comments on Mercedes: Schumacher climbs 19 places to fifth

  1. Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 29th August 2011, 11:02

    It would have been nice to see Schumacher on the podium for his 20th anniversary race … but I think twenty-fourth to fifth was a better tribute to his abilities.

  2. Valentino said on 29th August 2011, 11:03

    We are not yet aware that he is the greatest of all time,…

  3. with the next track being mostly straights and a few slow chicanes(aside from ascari) Mercedes have got to be pretty confident of a good result.

  4. Tiago T said on 29th August 2011, 11:59

    Schumacher also maide a double pass on Barrichello and someone else ( i dont recall who ) at the restart of the race in the first corner, taking advantage of the fight between them.

  5. Schumacher was brilliant even if we didn’t see him that much during the race. The best part for me though was Michael passing his team mate after starting last because it was just like the old him giving a message that he can do anything better than the guy in the garage next door no matter where he starts :P

    It was great for me as well as I did have a bet with a fellow F1 fan that Rosberg would qualify ahead of Michael but Schumacher would finish in front and I must admit after qualifying I thought I’d well and truly lost that one but silly me for doubting Michael Schumacher :P

  6. Icemangrins said on 29th August 2011, 13:25

    It was a great performance from Michael indeed. A bit unfortunate, we really didn’t see him much in action. Looking at the lap charts, there is no doubt that both the drivers have a similar driving style and Michael had the tyre advantage towards the end of the race… Thanks to the strategy masters.

    Relative performance of the Mercedes to the opponents is still a far shot. If Merecedes continues to improve their car further, an podium is warranted in Japan… nothing sooner, though watch out for Schumi in Monza. The car will perfectly suit the track.

  7. Robbie said on 29th August 2011, 14:21

    Nico continues to impress me. What a fantastic start he got, and to put that car in the lead like he did really made me think Mercedes needs to hang on to this guy for their future.

    How unfortunate for him that he was pitted a couple of laps before the safety car so he couldn’t take advantage of that…then the team ‘rewarded’ him for such a brilliant start and first few laps with a pit stop that was about five times longer than normal.

    On the other side MS had the advantage of tire choice and new ones at that for the start, got lucky with several cars colliding in front of him, and got to pit under the safety car conditions.

    Poor NR’s reward for putting that car higher than it belongs and maintaining it about as high up as it can go all day was to have a tire disadvantage vs. MS in the end, and on top of that to get the call to conserve fuel even though RB says of an earlier time in the race ‘his fuel consumption was on target’.

    So coming down to the last remaining laps on tires that were a second a lap slower than MS’s doesn’t to me make NR’s drive any less impressive than MS’s…just different, and in the end I think NR is not nearly getting the accolades for his race that he deserves. But then that’s been his season hasn’t it?…quitely outqualifying, and still leading MS in the points standings, while it is MS that get’s the attention.

    Ask all of MS’s teammates how easy it was to be next to him in the garage, then take all the accolades MS has gotten for yesterday’s drive, and I then extend them to NR too…as teammate to the ‘old master,’ if that is what he is to be called, NR continues to do a stellar job.

    • Robbie said on 29th August 2011, 14:45

      Just wanted to correct myself on something after looking at the pit times…just rewatched lap 11 when NR pitted and I wondered why I had the impression NR had a ‘five times longer’ pit stop as I state in my above post…turns out DC made a remark that it was a slow pit stop but as I rewatched I realize now there was a bar at the bottom of the screen showing the driver’s placings and that bar was blocking the actual stopped portion of the pit stop, and what I was remembering was actually the total time clicking by…the actual stopped time was slow, but not nearly as slow as I initially thought.

    • Harry Palmer said on 29th August 2011, 23:35

      “So coming down to the last remaining laps on tires that were a second a lap slower than MS’s doesn’t to me make NR’s drive any less impressive than MS’s…just different”

      Sure and if NR went from 24th to 5th in a race overtaking MSC in the process I’m sure you wouldn’t be claiming it as an amazing performance from NR, or that it was in any way better than his team-mate… Of course you’d be saying it was just ‘different’ and bemoaning poor Michael’s bad luck!

      • Robbie said on 30th August 2011, 12:26

        No, I’m not an MS fan so the likelihood of me bemoaning poor MS’s bad luck would be quite slim…but given that NR also had a fantastic race and was the one who actually got the car into first place for a short time (even though I think we all knew that if nothing else DRS would take care of that fairly soon), and that has barely gotten a mention bothers me…NR has been shouldering the burden on the team for a year and a half and still outpoints MS and I don’t think he deserved that race to end as it did for him.

        He might even be fine with it, and that’s racing, but I just think that it was unfortunate for him how it turned out…I thought his amazing start, and he’s had a few, that’s not just an MS thing, warranted him at least not getting that call in the end, after RB pointing out his fuel was on target earlier in the race.

        So sure, maybe if MS had actually earned more of those passes at the start, maybe without DRS in existance, and maybe without the safety car allowing him to get new tires and catch up to the front I would have been more impressed, although I still would not have been the one to verbalize that.

        But what NR did at Spa, and has been doing, with a 7 time WDC as a teammate has been impressive. He showed more to me on Sunday than he has up until then. And I just thought he deserved not to have that overshadowed.

        Also, would anybody here recommend to MS or any driver that he simply start from the back from here on in? Or do you admit that it is usually not the best route to take to achieve a 5th. ie. there were some extenuating circumstances that helped, no?

        • Robbie said on 30th August 2011, 12:54

          Furthermore, if it was MS that did what NR did at the start, I’m sure you would be shouting from the highest mountain, “MS leads once again.” “He’s the start master.” “Poor MS just doesn’t have the car.”

        • Harry Palmer said on 30th August 2011, 16:04

          “No, I’m not an MS fan so the likelihood of me bemoaning poor MS’s bad luck would be quite slim…”

          No kidding!

          “given that NR also had a fantastic race and was the one who actually got the car into first place for a short time (even though I think we all knew that if nothing else DRS would take care of that fairly soon), and that has barely gotten a mention bothers me…NR has been shouldering the burden on the team for a year and a half and still outpoints MS and I don’t think he deserved that race to end as it did for him. He might even be fine with it, and that’s racing, but I just think that it was unfortunate for him how it turned out…I thought his amazing start, and he’s had a few, that’s not just an MS thing, warranted him at least not getting that call in the end, after RB pointing out his fuel was on target earlier in the race.”

          Yes, Nico had a good start (which I was genuinely pleased about – I actually want both of them to do well) though of course we all knew it wouldn’t last as the car just doesn’t have the race pace (5th and 6th from whatever starting position is about as much as they can realistically hope for at the moment).

          It was unfortunate how things worked out for Nico with the SC relative to Michael, but the fuel-saving call was nothing to do with what his performance did or didn’t ‘warrant’. It was, as he said, because he was pushing to try and keep cars behind him earlier in the race. Whilst he may have been ‘on target’ when the SC was called, at the end he wasn’t, simple as that – clearly you have selective amnesia which means you forget Nico’s own words which negate your point, only recalling the one’s that suit your argument, however tenuously.

          The team allowed them both to race at the end and due to his tyre advantage, DRS, and Nico fuel-saving, Michael was able to easily pass Nico – He said as much after the race, I don’t claim it was amazing that he passed Nico, just that coming from 24th to 5th regardless of some factors working to his advantage is impressive, particularly when the car isn’t really on the pace of the three leading teams. The fact that you cant see that is down to nothing more than your dislike of MSC and is just another episode in your long running vendetta against Michael.

          “So sure, maybe if MS had actually earned more of those passes at the start, maybe without DRS in existance, and maybe without the safety car allowing him to get new tires and catch up to the front I would have been more impressed, although I still would not have been the one to verbalize that.”

          This is what I can’t understand – I absolutely would praise Nico if he won a race, though sure, it would possibly be through gritted teeth (though only because people like you would react as if he had won the WDC, should he do it before Michael). However, I would still do it as I want Mercedes not just Schumacher to do well. I’m impressed by NR’s speed and think he absolutely deserves more recognition for what he does. He’s only yet to win as he has never been in a car genuinely capable of it, but I’m sure it will happen soon and I will be cheering when it does…

          “Also, would anybody here recommend to MS or any driver that he simply start from the back from here on in? Or do you admit that it is usually not the best route to take to achieve a 5th. ie. there were some extenuating circumstances that helped, no?”

          Of course not, anyone needs some good fortune to go from 24th to 5th but it doesn’t guarantee the outcome, they still have to drive the car and achieve the maximum from the situation they are presented with.

          “Furthermore, if it was MS that did what NR did at the start, I’m sure you would be shouting from the highest mountain, “MS leads once again.” “He’s the start master.” “Poor MS just doesn’t have the car.”

          Michael has started well this year, even the bitterest person can see that – though, I accept his poor qualifying has meant he’s had more cars to overtake off the start – but I would have been resigned to the fact that it wouldn’t last, just as I was with Nico.

          (reposted to correct mistake with italics!)

          • Harry Palmer said on 30th August 2011, 16:20

            Thanks Keith for deleting my earlier post with the wonky italics.

            Just for clarity the sections in quotes above were posted originally by Robbie (in case anyone didn’t guess from the content!)

          • Robbie said on 30th August 2011, 18:09

            Yeah that’s all well and good, but for my money MS has made mistakes this year running into cars (and in his ‘brilliant’ drive on Sunday almost did it again needing to cut a corner after passing PdR), has generally been outqualified by NR, and lags behind him in points after more than a season and a half. And NR did nothing wrong on Sunday.

            MS may have finally caught up to NR at times, but my goal here is to point out that if it weren’t for a multi-car incident and a safety car MS would have done nothing special, and compared to NR’s lack of kudos for his brilliant start, I think it warranted mention.

            MS didn’t have to play with the big boys on Sunday, NR did, and truly held his own…he deserves just as much credit for his job on Sunday. Guess he really caught Brawn off guard there…not enough fuel to fight a battle in the top 5 or 6 even with a safety car that day. Plenty of fuel to go from 24 to 5 though…wonder who had the tougher day.

          • Harry Palmer (@harry-palmer) said on 30th August 2011, 23:06

            “Yeah that’s all well and good, but for my money MS has made mistakes this year (and in his ‘brilliant’ drive on Sunday almost did it again needing to cut a corner after passing PdR)”

            In other words you can’t dispute anything I said but you choose to talk about other races where MS has made mistakes this year rather than genuinely admitting you’re in any way wrong, wow there’s a shock! As for the corner cut on Di Resta if you watch the clip without your blinkers on, you would see he was past 100m before the corner. Yes there was a cut and he braked too late to make the apex but if you think he would have caused a crash by braking at the proper point you’re even more blinded by this obsession with picking fault in every little error of Schumacher’s than I thought possible!

            “MS may have finally caught up to NR at times, but my goal here is to point out that if it weren’t for a multi-car incident and a safety car MS would have done nothing special, and compared to NR’s lack of kudos for his brilliant start, I think it warranted mention.”

            Fair enough perhaps that’s partly true but the reality is, as much as you wish these events didn’t happen, they did and MSC took full advantage – which is one of the points I made that you chose to ignore so you could make another of your anti-schumi posts that are both tedious and predictable in equal measure.

            The fact is that as well as Nico drove you can’t really expect an article discussing how someone produced an amazing drive to finish behind where they qualified even if the drive was in many ways as good as a charge through the field from 24th to 5th. The fact is it’s just not headline material and until he “plays with the big boys” and wins no-one is going to write those stories. 5th to 3rd would probably be newsworthy, 5th to 6th will never be. Sure, Nico made a good start and drove a decent race but it was never going to generate headlines, you surely must see that?!

            “not enough fuel to fight a battle in the top 5 or 6 even with a safety car that day. Plenty of fuel to go from 24 to 5 though…wonder who had the tougher day.”

            Nico and Michael did good jobs from different starting positions on different strategies. I at least appreciate that and am happy to see a Mercedes in 5th and 6th. It’s a shame you don’t feel the same way really and feel the need to belittle anything Schumacher does because of some petty grudge that compels you to make negative comments on any thread where someone praises him at the expense of “poor Nico”!

          • Robbie said on 31st August 2011, 13:30

            I CAN dispute things you have said…I’m the one who started this by being the one on this topic who doesn’t think MS did something that special on Sunday…as I say, to get that many votes for drive of the day is to not consider that the seas parted in front of him at the start saving him a ton of time having to pass those cars and was very very lucky on MS’s part…if people want to blindly praise him for devining that was going to happen, knock yourselves out…I don’t buy it…it was lucky for him.

            His next lucky break was that in overcooking it after passing PdR he didn’t break something, or spin…ie. his drive was not flawless and he nearly threw it away, not for the first time this year.

            His next lucky break was being able to pit at the time of the safety car and also be able to catch up to the field. He also ended up with a tire advantage vs. NR as a result.

            So to simplify, in spite of the tedious and predictable promotion to god-like status and the defense of MS when that is challenged, there were extenuating circumstances that had nothing to do with driver skill, including his pass on NR, but more to do with luck that saw MS do what he did. Meanwhile NR, as usual, started as high as that car could have been expected to go, and incredibly led early on with a car that doesn’t belong there, then he maintained that as best he could for a non-winning car and with DRS in existance.

          • @Robbie If you put it this way “Nico plasy with the big boy”…Michael also play with the big boy in Canada where he defended nicely against faster cars with DRS ex Webber Red Bull well Nico defended well in Spa but from my point of view not as good as Michael defend you so call big boy in Canada and his charge to the front with impressive overtaking move without DRS and you still stated his drive in Canada got that bla bla this advantages without seeing his great drive or rainmaster part which many credited to him, that’s one of many parts that make your comments less credible about Schu.

          • Robbie said on 31st August 2011, 14:20

            Totally different in Canada…changeable weather, many stops and safety cars, no dry line until 10 laps to go…Canada was an anomoly…but predicatably, many took that and said MS was back and that he would podium next race…yet next race he was nowhere, once conditions were back to normal.

            BTW, I don’t hate MS…I just carry no respect for him and how he conducted himself throughout his career and the circumstances under which he compiled his numbers.

          • Robbie said on 31st August 2011, 14:23

            Oh yeah, and now people have him winning Monza as a result of Spa’s performance…who is the one being less credible? All I’ve done is point out the reality of MS’s day in amongst the ones who chose to ignore that.

          • I taken back the crazy word but not the obsessive hate, i think yes you are, judging from many of your comments And you forgot he was in lesser car, the drive to front not just many stops and safety cars but his experience and quality drives..changeable weather that’s why he is the rainmaster. the next races shame he made some mistakes otherwise he could be in higher places or could be in front of Nico, judging from his race pace better than Nico, Norbert Haug also stated that in his interview.
            No respect or hate him, he already got many respect and credited by many as one of the greatest despite his controversy and i believe last weekend would be very “painful” for you to see many tributes for Schumacher so your no respect thing didn’t change anything.

          • Which sites or experts saying that he would win in Monza??
            Your reality about Schumacher is quiet nonesense to many judging from your vendetta against Schu ex how he lucky that lucky this to get into that position etc.

          • Robbie said on 31st August 2011, 14:50

            Not sites or experts…I said people, as in posters on this thread.

          • Harry Palmer said on 31st August 2011, 14:33

            “I CAN dispute things you have said…”

            However, what you have actually done is ignore all the points I made and repeated the same arguments you used before even though they’ve been shown not to hold water. So one by one I will spell them out again… perhaps something will sink in this time, though I doubt it…

            “to get that many votes for drive of the day is to not consider that the seas parted in front of him at the start saving him a ton of time having to pass those cars and was very very lucky on MS’s part…if people want to blindly praise him for devining that was going to happen, knock yourselves out…I don’t buy it…it was lucky for him.”

            As I, and others, have said elsewhere it was not simply down to luck or purely his driving that he got past all those cars at the start, rather it was a combination of the two. He took a slow, wide line in to the corner and as a result had good drive on the exit on the inside as the cars in front spun. Yes there was an element of luck that they did so but there was also foresight of what the other drivers might do and good driving to take advantage of the situation. I am not ‘blindly’ prasing him, instead you are blindly criticising him. I am looking at what actually happened, where you are twisting reality to suit your preconceptions.

            “His next lucky break was that in overcooking it after passing PdR he didn’t break something, or spin…ie. his drive was not flawless and he nearly threw it away, not for the first time this year.”

            As I said before (and you ignored this point also) he was past Di Resta 100m before the corner and though he missed his breaking point it would not have resulted in a crash or anything like it as he was well ahead by the time he got to the corner.

            Next!

            “His next lucky break was being able to pit at the time of the safety car and also be able to catch up to the field. He also ended up with a tire advantage vs. NR as a result. So to simplify, in spite of the tedious and predictable promotion to god-like status and the defense of MS when that is challenged, there were extenuating circumstances that had nothing to do with driver skill, including his pass on NR, but more to do with luck that saw MS do what he did. Meanwhile NR, as usual, started as high as that car could have been expected to go, and incredibly led early on with a car that doesn’t belong there, then he maintained that as best he could for a non-winning car and with DRS in existance.”

            I never claimed that his move through the field didn’t involve any luck but he did take advantage of the situations he was presented with well and the team made good strategy calls, resulting in a good outcome. I never claimed it was a god-like performance – I’m just trying to show that your relentless negativity is unbalanced and warped. You ignore everything positive just to re-enforce your anti-schumacher viewpoint. As I already said I follow both drivers, not just Michael, but my point is whilst 5th in Quali, briefly leading and finishing 6th in the race is a very good result for that car, it is never going to generate headlines/praise (currently Nico has about 8 votes for driver of the day, Michael has 250+). Whereas, a drive from the back solidly in to the points will! It’s not a conspiracy against “poor Nico” as you call him, it’s just reality – difficult as it seems for you to accept!

          • Robbie said on 31st August 2011, 15:28

            Harry…I think you have done an equal job of ignoring my points and repeating the same arguments…eg. you seem to think overcooking it and having to cut the corner after passing PdR is meaningless, couldn’t possibly have resulted in a crash…with PdR…because he was already past him…

            My point being, MS showed to me he was once again overdriving the car, like in past races where it has cost him a wing and done damage to other driver’s cars/days…so my point was that even if he was well past PdR, it’s not just about that…overdriving, cutting corners, and going over curbs has cost drivers a spin, or a broken wing or floor on many occasions, and could have cost him the race and could have involved PdR if MS had gotten out of shape more than he already was from cutting said corner. It’s not just about potentially coming close to contact with PdR, it’s about him overdriving the car and being lucky not to have that result in something worse than it did. It’s a sign to me that in spite of his highly praised drive on Sunday, he almost threw it away, again, which there are prescedents for in this very season…and it wasn’t me that suggested this was almost penalty worthy.

            It is not a criticism of MS to point out he was lucky so many cars moved out of his way at the start.

            It is not a criticism of MS to point out he was lucky a safety car came out that allowed him a tire change and to catch up to the field.

            Those are just the realities of MS’s ‘brilliant’ drive, which to me are not brilliant at all…just the realities of racing sometimes, just luck, but in actual showing of driver skill, how much did MS show? He showed he can overcook the car still. He showed he can get by cars that haven’t normally belonged in front of the Mercedes all season long. He showed a few good passes, which should be expected from a 7-time WDC. But to me, the reality is he is not exactly going to be trying to start from the back from here on in…odds are, in order to come 5th from last some things are going to have to happen to help you along the way…otherwise quali would be a lot less meaningful and drivers would just shrug off such grid positions.

            Btw, can you tell by now that you are not going to sway me from this argument, just as I have figured out that you will not be swayed? Thank goodness we don’t all think alike…wouldn’t life be boring otherwise.

          • Harry Palmer said on 31st August 2011, 16:30

            “Harry…I think you have done an equal job of ignoring my points and repeating the same arguments…eg. you seem to think overcooking it and having to cut the corner after passing PdR is meaningless, couldn’t possibly have resulted in a crash…with PdR…because he was already past him…

            My point being, MS showed to me he was once again overdriving the car, like in past races where it has cost him a wing and done damage to other driver’s cars/days…so my point was that even if he was well past PdR, it’s not just about that…overdriving, cutting corners, and going over curbs has cost drivers a spin, or a broken wing or floor on many occasions, and could have cost him the race and could have involved PdR if MS had gotten out of shape more than he already was from cutting said corner. It’s not just about potentially coming close to contact with PdR, it’s about him overdriving the car and being lucky not to have that result in something worse than it did. It’s a sign to me that in spite of his highly praised drive on Sunday, he almost threw it away, again, which there are prescedents for in this very season…and it wasn’t me that suggested this was almost penalty worthy.”

            I accept he misjudged the corner but my feeling is it was a minor error and wasn’t serious enough to cause a spin or a broken wing etc as was in fact the case. Lots of drivers cut corners in a race – it would only really be evidence of ‘overdriving’ if it was repeated (and I’m talking about in this race) which it wasn’t. The fact that you only ever pick up on it when it’s Michael doing it is what is annoying – If Nico did the same thing you would ignore it as a one-off minor error in the course of the race, as would I for the reasons I said before.

            “It is not a criticism of MS to point out he was lucky so many cars moved out of his way at the start.”

            Yes but it is disingenuous to suggest that it was entirely down to luck as you have…

            “It is not a criticism of MS to point out he was lucky a safety car came out that allowed him a tire change and to catch up to the field.”

            I never said it was, the team made a good strategy call and he took advantage of it I never claimed this was down to his driving ability

            Those are just the realities of MS’s ‘brilliant’ drive, which to me are not brilliant at all…just the realities of racing sometimes, just luck, but in actual showing of driver skill, how much did MS show? He showed he can overcook the car still. He showed he can get by cars that haven’t normally belonged in front of the Mercedes all season long. He showed a few good passes, which should be expected from a 7-time WDC. But to me, the reality is he is not exactly going to be trying to start from the back from here on in…odds are, in order to come 5th from last some things are going to have to happen to help you along the way…otherwise quali would be a lot less meaningful and drivers would just shrug off such grid positions.”

            I did already make the point that there would need to be a degree of luck involved to move through the field from 24th and that the reason people are talking about it is that superficially it sounds more impressive. I know the reality is somewhat different and yes Nico deserves more credit – but my point is you seem to feel Michael deserves none at all, it’s all ‘just luck’, which I think is a bit harsh… just my opinion and yes it would be boring if everyone thought the same way!

            “Btw, can you tell by now that you are not going to sway me from this argument, just as I have figured out that you will not be swayed? Thank goodness we don’t all think alike…wouldn’t life be boring otherwise.”

            Yes, I can see that (due to his chequered past) you’re never going to be a member of the Michael Schumacher appreciation society, but maybe you could accept that when he has a good race now it’s not all down to luck? As you say, he is a 7 time champion… I know the answer’s probably no, but I live in hope!

            (Copied here as it posted at the top of the page for some reason?!)

          • +1
            Robbie just put too much obsessive crazy hate against Schu..even more sense hater could still admitting some great stuff from Schumacher.

          • +1 for @Harry Palmer comments

  8. snowman said on 29th August 2011, 14:34

    “He passed Paul di Resta at Les Combes and lap two, avoiding a penalty despite cutting the corner as he went around the outside of the Force India.”

    Footage at 3.20 of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_i21x1y0AA shows it’s maybe not as straight forward and if was penalized would have been extremely harsh.

    • Icemangrins said on 29th August 2011, 14:47

      Schumi was ahead of PDR when he cut the corner. The stewards don’t condemn drivers for such actions. I don’t really remember if it was Lewis or Fernando who did the same in Hungary 2011. Martin Brundle said the action is OK given the rationale the driver is ahead and already made the overtook move.

      • Robbie said on 29th August 2011, 15:30

        More luck on MS’s part, aside from having the seas part in front of him at the start. While I agree a penalty would have been harsh, MS is lucky he didn’t come back on after cutting the corner and whack PDR, or at least damage his floor…wonder if PDR had to back off as a result…if so perhaps a penalty would have been warranted, but probably not. MS was just lucky to not crash himself out or crash into PDR and it can certainly be said that he overcooked it, which at other races has cost him front wings several times this season.

      • HoHum (@hohum) said on 29th August 2011, 15:41

        I don’t agree, if (as it should be) you can’t cut a corner to overtake or avoid being overtaken, you should not get away with entering the braking zone to fast to stay on track because you are being overtaken or are overtaking. However Michael has always been on the very edge of legality to ensure the result his sponsors are paying for and maybe that is the way it should be.

        • Robbie said on 29th August 2011, 16:01

          Yeah it’s an interesting one…for sure if there was a wall there MS would not have been able to be as aggressive vs. PdR, and being able to cut the corner allowed him to make the pass ie. use the (over)speed he did. Bundle says it is ok given that the corner was cut after he was ahead, but I think that can be a fine line…the driver was ahead because he was going too fast for the corner and had to cut it to deal with the excess speed/misjudgement in passing PdR being the other side of Brundle’s statement.

          • snowman said on 29th August 2011, 16:53

            Agree it’s an interesting one! If look at left side of video he is already by di Resta at the 100 meter board and has the racing line into that first turn.

            Think that’s why no penalty because they have deemed the pass to be done and dusted by the time he cut the corner. And they only penalize for cutting corners if nothing is gained if happens a couple of times.

            Would be good to see overhead shot to see how close di Resta was when corner was cut because if he was right on his back then a penalty would be warranted but don’t think he was.

            With Mansell on the steward panel and the amount of harsh penalties Schumacher has already got in his comeback I tend to think if they could have gave him a penalty they would have.

          • Icemangrins said on 29th August 2011, 17:39

            Iceman and Snowman rules

          • its very interesting this subject. Like button-massa in australia. Tho a penalty would of been harsh, i do agree with robbie.

            if your only ahead due to not braking enough for the corner and therefore cutting it then you have gained an advantage.

            He was much further ahead than jenson was on massa though. That was clear cut, so what buttons nose was ahead, he didnt make the corner or even attempt at it, massa did. so Pen was correct that time.

  9. Palle (@palle) said on 29th August 2011, 16:10

    “He passed Paul di Resta at Les Combes and lap two, avoiding a penalty despite cutting the corner as he went around the outside of the Force India.”
    Should it not be “on lap two”, not “and lap two”?

  10. OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 29th August 2011, 16:31

    It’s been nice to see him skillful again. However the TV hosts in my area were a little upset cause of the “team order” to Nico. That about saving fuel. Anyway 6th or 5th is great after the weak races he has had this year

  11. Palle (@palle) said on 29th August 2011, 16:55

    To Snowman: Fantastic video of Schumi’s first 3 laps – thanks a lot, just too bad it isn’t longer – like 44 laps, hehe…
    You could say he was lucky on several occasions, but experience, cunning and talent brings You 98%, rest is luck. They way he pauses and decides to dive in along the apex on turn one to avoid the collisions isn’t just luck. The same with his approach on the two virgins right after Eau rouge – I thought: “Why is he changing to the left side of the track”, and a moment later “Ah, thats why!” Brilliant drive from Schumi and with the form of Rosberg, Mercedes only need to build a race car capable of winning races for 2012, then we could have a shift of power. But it will probably not happen – Newey rules.

  12. Sergio Perez said on 30th August 2011, 3:58

    Yes, didn’t like the “conserve fuel” instruction. The fact that Michael got close to Nico after passing more than a dozen of cars in the first place was proof enough he was faster than Nico. What if he didn’t overtake the youngster? Nothing wrong with that, it was still the performance of the week in my book. Honorable mention to Sutil, also very impressive.

    • Mike (@mike) said on 30th August 2011, 6:04

      Considering the tyre advantage Michael had I reckon it’s a bit of a laugh to think that was a team order.

      The advantage he got from Nico saving fuel would have been only a very small portion of his overall advantage.

      • Robbie said on 30th August 2011, 12:31

        Yeah not just the tire advantage but with DRS NR was a sitting duck, just as MS was in Montreal.

        This race made me less a fan of DRS than ever. While there were some great passes there were also a lot that looked too easy for F1 in my book.

  13. wasiF1 (@wasif1) said on 30th August 2011, 5:13

    Good race by both of them Nico made a splendid start to the race but sadly couldn’t capitalize on that due to DRS.Schumi on the other hand have made more position on the opening lap then anyone in this world.Great drive by him showed his true potential,as this is a driver’s track showed that he still have the thing in him to continue for 2012.

    • Robbie said on 30th August 2011, 11:52

      Of course, it helps when a bunch of cars connect and suddenly find themselves off course such that MS was able to gain so many spots…just saying, don’t make it sound like it was some sort of genius thing for MS to get by all those cars, like he passed them all through skill and cunnning and years of experience.

      • wasiF1 (@wasif1) said on 30th August 2011, 13:45

        Yeah that while accident happened in front of him he slowed down waited things to happen then picked up the pace.

        • Robbie said on 30th August 2011, 15:25

          Meanwhile, all NR was doing was leading the race having passed Vettel…

          • wasiF1 said on 30th August 2011, 17:15

            That was a great start for sometime I thought what will this be Nico’s first win but as always they don’t have good grip & he was worst affected by the DRS.

  14. Mithun said on 30th August 2011, 12:35

    Robbie,

    Just watch how slowly he starts off , he doesnt over take any one till the first corner. Its like he was waiting for the crash to happen. That’s skill and experience.

    • Robbie said on 30th August 2011, 12:58

      Oh, so now MS has ESP on top of everything else? Guess he might as well just start from the back from now on then, right?

      • icemangrins (@icemangrins) said on 30th August 2011, 13:14

        and yes, he will still beat Nico Rosberg

        • Robbie said on 30th August 2011, 13:39

          Yup…as long as he devines himself a multi-car incident at the start and a safety car not long after that, he’ll be fine.

      • Mike said on 31st August 2011, 6:02

        No, not esp, experience. It’s a very tight corner, and in races past we often see cars collide.

        • Harry Palmer said on 31st August 2011, 11:07

          Exactly but Robbie is so blinded by hatred of MSC he can’t see what is plain to any other reasonable person. Schumi took the approach to the corner slowly with a wide line and picked his way past the spinners on the inside. Of course there is a degree of luck but there is also experience and good judgement at play though Robbie will never admit to that even if he could see it…

  15. themagicofspeed (@) said on 30th August 2011, 13:39

    What a drive. That race will i think be remembered for a while. It says everything you need to know about him that at the age of 42 (or however old he is), in what must be said, is a pretty poor car, he came from 24th to 5th. I too would love a Schumacher win at Monza, although id prefer a Ferrari win more.

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