Horner says Red Bull have not overspent

F1 Fanatic round-up

In the round-up: Christian Horner denies Red Bull broke the Resource Restriction Agreement.

Links

Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Red Bull denies breaking the RRA (Autosport)

“It’s false, absolutely false. We agreed the scope, we worked within the scope. Job done! We’ve worked within the RRA, within the regulations that exist. It saved us money, saved the teams money. Unfortunately the consequence of success is people will throw stones.”

Grand Prix provides little traction for UBS (FT, registration required)

“The decision of UBS to hold a crucial board meeting on Friday in the city state on the eve of this year?s race, at which directors will discuss the $2.3bn loss it revealed last week due to an alleged rogue trader, seems strangely inappropriate.”

Lewis Hamilton: “I just kept my mouth shut…” (Adam Cooper)

“I?m very, very passionate, and I think I?m very open and very blunt with the things that I say, and I?m not scared to say what I feel. But it can be used against me. So I just won?t… And at that time I was able to control myself, and that?s what life is about, being in control.”

Sebastian Vettel deserves to win title says Fernando Alonso (BBC)

“He’s been the best driver, [with] the best team. They deserve to be where they are.”

Barrichello eyes 20th season with full tank of fuel (Reuters)

“The [Williams] team is changing engines, personnel is changing so… I think I have a lot to give to the team.”

Red Bull ?ǣ Monza Diffuser Analysis (ScarbsF1)

More on the images of the Red Bull floor seen in the video in this article from last week:

Singapore GP – Conference 1 (FIA)

Sebastian Vettel on Fernando Alonso’s defensive driving at Monza: “It was borderline but I know that if I want to get past, I have to try something. Actually, the lap before was more critical, when I was on the right, on the outside for the second chicane and he moved a little bit under braking to the right side and there wasn?t much room for me. We talked about it after the race and I think it?s fine.”

What next for Kimi Raikkonen? (Who Are You, Anyway)

“Kimi has been a good earner for his management team, David and Steve Robertson, but now the udders of this particular cash cow are running dry. When you?re reduced to whispering in the ear of compliant pressmen that your charge is ?ǣ hush hush! ?ǣ making a visit to the Williams F1 factory, the game is nearly up.”

Follow F1 news as it breaks using the F1 Fanatic live Twitter app.

Comment of the day

Over a dozen races into F1 2011 and DRS still hasn’t won over some people:

F1 is becoming too reliant on it, rather than looking at real solutions to make overtaking a bit easier there relying on DRS which as someone said above is nothing but an artificial Bandaid.

If DRS is carried over to 2012 and beyond and continues to work as it has in 2011 I can see myself just walking away from F1.

I love F1 and have done practically my whole life, however I hate DRS and what its done to the racing this year.
Dizzy

From the forum

Kingshark invites your thoughts on what’s the best corner on each track.

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to TisoyJrIII and Paul Prinnel!

On this day in F1

Stirling Moss won the 1961 Oulton Park Gold Cup 50 years ago today.

This non-championship event was the only race run to F1 rules to be won by a four-wheel-drive car. Moss prevailed in the slippery conditions at the wheel of a Ferguson P99:

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41 comments on Horner says Red Bull have not overspent

  1. Hamish (@hamish) said on 23rd September 2011, 0:11

    Same comments, different season – time to give it up Rubens. You will be measured on the quality of your time, not quantity.

    • AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 23rd September 2011, 8:18

      Well, they can hardly do worse next season so he has nothing to lose really. Plus, the level of change he speaks of is quite dramatic so hopefully they will turn it round.

      • vjanik said on 23rd September 2011, 8:51

        isnt it always like that with Williams. people expect them to bounce back, but i just dont see it.

        even with a head start on the double diffuser they were not able to capitalize. and this year in the pre season testing, people were hailing their coke bottle super slim rear end and predicting great things for Williams (coupled with the vinitge livery) But as always the bubble burst quite quickly.

        I have always been a Williams fan, but I cant help but feel that they are long past their best days and no iprovement seems to be in sight. After reading some of their recent memos on lateral integration and price per share, I lost all hope. they are turning into a company. Something they were fighting against all their time in F1 by being a privateer team. Shame that

  2. Harvs (@harvs) said on 23rd September 2011, 0:37

    I think Jarno should quit before Rubens, Rubens is still delivering Quality Jarno is not.

  3. MGriffin90 (@mgriffin90) said on 23rd September 2011, 0:37

    With Williams changing engine supplier in 2012 and obviously wanting to be back on form, they’ll need the vast experience of Barrichello to get the best out of the car in testing and development.

    Whether they want him in the team…that’s where it gets tricky. His knowledge and experience is untouchable, but do they sign him for another season when he could be past his best?

    I would hate to be making that decision…

  4. Joey-Poey (@joey-poey) said on 23rd September 2011, 0:58

    DRS still hasn’t won me over either. It simply feels like it taints the racing. I don’t know if it’ll make me leave, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth and makes it hard to feel like moves were completely down to the driver rather than a little flap that allowed them to be there/gain an advantage.

    And for all the talk that it’s no different than the boost of the old turbo days, well… turbo is coming back so let’s ditch DRS when it does and allow turbo to be used as it once was: as both defense AND attack. And frankly, that’s how devices should be, NOT as strictly to be used by a car behind.

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 23rd September 2011, 1:57

      I don’t know if it’ll make me leave, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth

      You can taste something that is happening on the other side of the world?

      You might want to get that checked out.

    • Hallard (@hallard) said on 23rd September 2011, 18:43

      I have to agree with you, Joey. It certainly wont make me stop following F1, but I’ll be glad to see the back of it. The best implementations of DRS have been in races where the DRS had little noticeable effect (admittedly in these cases it usually allowed for closer following if not easier overtaking), which I think speaks volumes about the concept itself.

      What I’d really like to see would be drastically changed rules with very small front and rear wings (preferably not awkwardly narrow, just small and shallow), larger wheels/tires and a mandatory right height of 5-6 inches to cut down downforce (I would suggest the ‘ground effect’ instead but F1 seems to have dismissed this already for cost reasons). Im certainly no aerodynamicist but it always seems so ridiculous when people claim that it’s nigh on impossible to significantly cut down the downforce that these cars generate. As the COTD states, DRS is really just a band aid and I think that in a decade or two it will be looked back on as the gimmick it is.

  5. Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 23rd September 2011, 2:03

    F1 is becoming too reliant on it, rather than looking at real solutions to make overtaking a bit easier there relying on DRS which as someone said above is nothing but an artificial Bandaid.

    What’s the alternative? You’re demanding a solution, but you’re offering no ideas.

    Before the DRS was introduced, everyone demanded that the sport do more to produce overtaking. But nobody actually gave any ideas as to how it could be achieved. So when the sport listened, came up with a solution, and presented it to everyone, the fans cried foul. They gave you exactly what you wanted and it still wasn’t good enough.

    It’s the same as if you went into a bakery and ordered a cake, but you never actually said what kind of cake you wanted. When you come to pick it up, you find a carrot cake waiting for you when you wanted a chocolate cake – but you never ordered a chocolate cake. So the bakery gave you exactly what you asked for, so how can they be criticised?

    The fans demanded more overtaking. Formula 1 gave it to them. But the fans never said “we want more overtaking, and this is how we think you should do it”. They just demanded more overtaking and left the teams to try and figure out what they were thinking. Continuing the cake analogy, the phrase “having your cake and eating it, too” comes to mind.

    For all the criticism of the DRS, I haven’t seen a single person make a single suggestion for a better solution, much less a suggestion for a better solution that is practical.

    • Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 23rd September 2011, 3:45

      The fans demanded more overtaking. Formula 1 gave it to them. But the fans never said “we want more overtaking, and this is how we think you should do it”. They just demanded more overtaking and left the teams to try and figure out what they were thinking.

      How are the fans going to work out what’s better for an F1 car to overtake another one?

      You cannot work a solution if you don’t know what’s the problem in the first place and how it behaves. Most people say it’s the aerodynamic dependance on the cars, but how to get round that is impossible to work out.

      If you want to do it, have a go but what you’re saying is ilogical. You don’t “fix” your car yourself, you get it fixed by the manufacturer (unless you’re a mechanic, but that implies you know what’s all about, and that doesn’t happen to F1 fans). The cake analogy isn’t quite right either.

      Just because one demands a change, and they give it to you, doesn’t mean it’s 100% right. The DRS thing works, but it doesn’t work the way it’s supposed to do. It’s supposed to help overtaking, not just giving you the place. They need to polish the idea, work the DRS zones better. And then it might work better.

      • It’s supposed to help overtaking, not just giving you the place.

        And this is where I get confused. You want over taking to be easier… But also it must be difficult.

        whether we need it with the Pirrelli tyres? I don’t know, but the DRS would have been a god send before this year.

        I don’t even know what the goal is anymore.
        And I agree with PM in that as flawed as the DRS may be, I haven’t heard a better idea.

        • exactly Pirelli solved the problem.

          If DRS had been with the bridgestones it would of probably worked out better.

          Fair play for FIA for trying it. What i would suggest is lowering the amount of wing angle the DRS applies, therefore making it harder to get past. We want the DRS to get other drivers in the zone to make an attempt to pass. Not to just press DRS to get past.

        • Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 24th September 2011, 0:09

          I haven’t heard a better idea either. All I’m saying is that the whole thing needs some polishing, so it works better.

          People asking for it isn’t a bad thing. The whole “you wanted overtaking and here it is, yet you still shout” discussion is flawed.

    • For all the criticism of the DRS, I haven’t seen a single person make a single suggestion for a better solution, much less a suggestion for a better solution that is practical.

      Underbody aero is not as effected by dirty air as wings are. Bring back ground effects, reduce the reliance on overbody flows to produce downforce, and make an overall cut in downforce if needed. There is no 100% fix for the problem but these things would help IMMENSELY. The original 2013 regulations were supposed to bring back ground effects for this specific purpose but that idea was apparently nixed due to cost and “drs doing it’s job”. So now rather than getting real, natural racing, we’ll be stuck with DRS for god knows how long until the FIA finally decides to do something about it.

      • BasCB (@bascb) said on 23rd September 2011, 7:37

        Exactly that Alky.

        Its not that no one knows the solution, they all do (and contrary to what PM claims here, it was even proposed in the new aero rules).

        But that solution will mean a more radical change away from what we have now. A change that means certain assets might become worthless, money and thought will have to be invested into a new solution and most of all, it might bring unexpected results. Something the big teams can just not risk, as there’s too much at stake for them.

    • AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 23rd September 2011, 8:21

      Oh, you just read my mind. People have the shortest of attention spans!

      What’s more, F1 couldn’t have been clearer when they said it was very much an experiment.

    • TED BELL said on 23rd September 2011, 8:42

      Wider tires, bigger wings and fuel stops. Drop KERS and allow ground effects between front and rear wheels. All of which would put driver skills back where they should be.

    • verstappen (@verstappen) said on 23rd September 2011, 8:44

      My suggestion, which I’ve done before is simple: maintain DRS on the ‘boring’ tracks, the tracks that produce little to no overtaking: Spain, Monaco etc. In Spain for example, I watched an exciting race, where DRS added to the suspense. That would not make Valencia exciting, but we’re stuck there.

      Although I would prefer better solutions in terms of aero or getting rid of boring tracks, those aren’t realistic, where my alternative is.

  6. wasiF1 (@wasif1) said on 23rd September 2011, 2:29

    I think the time for Rubens is up but how about this on a great race weekend we are talking about Kimi.

    • I think, as a Kimi fan, that the ship has already sailed for him, and that the responsibility for his career self destruction lies with him and his “learning difficulties”… Would be great if he had a career revival, JB style though…

    • AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 23rd September 2011, 8:25

      Kimi would be taking a massive gamble. They would do better to retain Barrichello for his experience, given the level of change the team is set to see.

      I fail to see how Barrichello is past it, although Maldonado it’s showing him up on race day…

  7. Aww Come On Vettel! Surely, that little defensive move by Alonso wasnt a big deal. I would be more concerned if you were stuck behind Schumacher. Now he was making defensive moves.

  8. RumFRESH (@rumfresh) said on 23rd September 2011, 3:52

    I think Barrichello and Trulli should leave F1 to be honest. It’s just that I feel like they’ve both had long careers and it’s time to hand it over to the next generation. I feel the same way about Schumacher as well but I might get a lot of heat for suggesting that he should leave too. If all three were performing like superstars of the sport I’d say they should stay but I’d love to see some young guys getting a shot instead.

    By the way, over here in Canada hockey is kind of a big deal and there’s a player for the NHL team ‘The LA Kings’ whose name is and I’m not joking “Michael Schumacher”. He is a young player and as such there isn’t too much info on him I just wondered if his name is a coincidence or not. He’s Swedish however and not German. I thought it was pretty cool! http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=22270

  9. Maksutov (@maksutov) said on 23rd September 2011, 4:03

    Interesting what Hamilton has to say in that article. Nothing I didn’t expect though…

    It’s obvious he held back not to say certain things after Monza race and/or show anger or whatever. Which is understandable and good from him. But I am still somewhat disappointed. Despite everything that happened, I am disappointed that he did not have anything good to say about the battles. I mean, a true racing driver should take some positives out of action like that between him and Schumacher (after all he did overtake him twice). But it seems that his ego (for the championship) still over-shines everything else he feels. I truly wonder do drivers ever realize that not everyone can win the championship at the same time? First, it is not easy and second there is always going to be 23 victims. Get with the program pls.

    • Excellent comment!

    • sebsronnie (@sebsronnie) said on 27th September 2011, 19:05

      <blockquoteI am disappointed that he did not have anything good to say about the battles
      What on earth do you want him to say? That he was happy to stick around Schumacher for half the race? His ego? Come on – why do you guys always look for the smallest (at times nonsensical) excuse to bash this guy? Amazing!

  10. Horrid time for UBS, especially with all the recent losses and the under pressure Singapore Government (who recently had the worst showing ever in both the recent general and presidential elections), a major shareholder, heavily leaning on UBS to get things back in order.

    • BasCB (@bascb) said on 23rd September 2011, 7:42

      That article about them having a meeting coinciding with the Singapore GP is really interseting reading and well written too.

      • The meeting was probably planned months in advance, the timing of the rogue trader reveal and the losses was unfortunate.

        What’s even more unfortunate is that the UBS shares held by the Singaporean GIC is actually funded by the citizen savings in the Central Provident Fund (a national forced pension/savings fund)… Singaporean Lib-Dem politicians are now actually targeting the GP itself as an example of waste and excess…

  11. BasCB (@bascb) said on 23rd September 2011, 7:57

    I just took the time to read through the FIA pressconference. Glad I did because there are some really interesting parts in there.

    A new bit is SV saying he did not go to the stewards to complain about Alonso’s driving after Monza. Also interesting to hear what he has to say about their battle.
    And the part about Schu’s moves is even more interesting.

    Also liked what they asked Ricciardo and Perez about what is different in F1 compared to junior racing series.

    • Hi, would appreciate it very much if you could you provide the link to the FIA press conference you were referring to? Thanks! =)

  12. sato113 (@sato113) said on 23rd September 2011, 9:49

    i want kimi back!

  13. good COTD, I completely agree.

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