In the round-up: Lewis Hamilton performs for crowds in India but the tax problems surrounding the race remain.
Links
Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:
Lewis Hamilton takes centre stage as F1 promotes Indian Grand Prix (The Guardian)
“Lewis Hamilton may have left Singapore on Sunday barely saying a word, but on Tuesday he left an astonishing 40,000 crowd in India baying for more.”
Indian GP tax issue still a concern (Autosport)
“Formula 1 teams and drivers have still not resolved all the issues relating to tax at the Indian Grand Prix, despite recent assurances that the matter was being sorted.”
Lewis Hamilton: Jenson Button has done a better job all season (The Daily Telegraph)
“Jenson’s done an incredible job. I feel he’s done a better job all season, really. So even if I did a better job in the next five races it doesn’t mean a lot to me. I mean, it’s through a whole year.”
Bernie calls a meeting (Joe Saward)
“We believe that the Formula One Teams’ Association has since told [Bernie Ecclestone] that the organisation would welcome a proposal for an agreement, on the basis that everyone gets the same deal.”
Red Bull: Where marketing goes into overdrive (FT, registration required)
“For the most part, the group has done well at providing the media with activities to report on. So much so, in fact, that when people say Red Bull, it is hard to know if they are referring to the drink, the world championship-winning F1 team, the company’s spectacularly dangerous-looking air-racing series, or the rash of other extreme sports events to which it lends its name.”
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Comment of the day
Smifaye picks a Driver of the Weekend:
I voted for Vettel as once again he is proving why he is good enough to win back to back championships. The BBC commentary team said it during the race that he seems to glide through whilst the others falter. Apart from his final stint where he looked under pressure from Button it was a stunning weekend. I just don’t get how he pulls out these amazing laps week after week, it’s just phenominal.
An honourable mention to both Button and Di Resta as they are really showing how to drive a mature race. Button started well and maintained the gap to the driver behind and after being unwell was extremely impressive. Button keeps on impressing me week after week.
Di Resta is not driving like it is his first season in F1 and really made it work this weekend.
Smifaye
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On this day in F1
Happy birthday Mika Hakkinen – the twice-champion is 43 today!
Image © McLaren
Craig Woollard (@craig-o)
28th September 2011, 0:06
Happy Birthday Mika! Might watch some of his best moments now and be 6 again.
Craig Woollard (@craig-o)
28th September 2011, 0:07
My favourite driver EVER
snowman (@snowman)
28th September 2011, 0:35
And the favourite pass!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEUKf83k3L0
ScuderiaVincero (@scuderiavincero)
28th September 2011, 0:43
It was a great overtaking maneuver, I loved it. Not sure if Michael did. :P
TED BELL
28th September 2011, 1:32
Somehow I remember how much I enjoyed it when Mikas McLaren suddenly stopped on track. At the time I didn’t care for him at all but today now respect his driving talent and have come to realise that he was a gentleman driver. He was good in a quite way and went about the competition and made his mark unscathed. Fortunately he did get better at post race interviews and lost that title to Kimi who still holds the position as most boring interview.
wasiF1 (@wasif1)
28th September 2011, 2:32
That was something special,no wonder Michael says why he feared him the most.He has been one of my favourite driver that I have seen racing.He was cool & never bother talking, unlike other drivers I can’t remember that he ever came near to controversies.It was sad to see him go away from F1 the way he did,he he had stayed in F1 for very time Michael did he could have given him a hard time for his money.
wasiF1 (@wasif1)
28th September 2011, 2:35
About that move more was it interesting on track Michael had a blank face in the press conference which was cheered up by Mika.
Dan Thorn (@dan-thorn)
28th September 2011, 7:36
Mika was always one of my favourites. His pole lap at Imola in 2000 was astonishing.
TheBrav3
28th September 2011, 0:06
Happy birthday Mika!
Christian
28th September 2011, 0:12
So Mika is now 43, which is roughly Schumi’s age. I wonder how he would perform in an F1 car nowadays? Didn’t he test the McLaren a few seasons ago? Was his pace difference comparable to Schumacher?
bananarama (@bananarama)
28th September 2011, 0:16
If I remember that correctly he was so far off the pace they didn’t bother to continue. I might be wrong though ..
snowman (@snowman)
28th September 2011, 0:29
Ya I’m pretty sure that was right bananarama from what I recall.
BasCB (@bascb)
28th September 2011, 7:48
Pretty much up to level with Schu then :-D
HounslowBusGarage (@hounslowbusgarage)
28th September 2011, 8:53
Lol. Maybe just his ego is smaller. :)
Q85
28th September 2011, 8:58
tho if i remember rightly he wasnt testing to set a fast time, he was actually doing systems testing.
and set his only fast ish time on really old tyres at the end of day.
so he never got a real run at attempting a flyer.
US_Peter (@us_peter)
28th September 2011, 0:24
So wouldn’t it be ironic if the Indian GP successfully builds its facilities and is ready to host a race, but it doesn’t happen due to the government’s stubborn stance on entertainment taxes. I can’t imagine the race promoters will let it come to that, but well find out soon enough.
Interesting read from Saward. the Concord Agreement battle is going to be a rough one I have a feeling.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 1:41
The government can be rather mad at times. Production for Bond 23 was due to take place in India with a rather elaborate and daring stunt sequence to take place on a train. However, the government delayed negotiations over it, making all manner of demands – they insisted that the film must portray India in a positive light; for instance, the scene could not have people riding on top of trains, because it is illegal in India and therefore nobody does it (when a quick check on YouTube shows it still happens); similarly, they would only grant permission to shoot if the actors became brand ambassadors for the national government-controlled railway. In the end, the producers got so fed up with the government’s demands and felt that it diluted the film (everything in India was shaping up to be one big advertisement for India) that they pulled the plug and they’re going to South Africa instead (ironically, the Indians ought to know better; Octopussy was shot in Udaipur and has been shown there every since 1983 – so it would be huge for India to get these productions, but the government insists on getting as much out of them as they can).
Likewise, other big-budget films have had a lot of trouble getting permission to shoot in India – Christopher Nolan had to wait seven months to get approval to fly a helicopter over Jodhpur to shoot parts of The Dark Knight Rises, while Mission: Impossible – Ghost Protocol encountered other, similar problems.
So it comes as no suprrise to me that the tax issue is still an issue. New Delhi’s approach seems to be “Sure, you can come to India – but first of all, let’s talk about what you can do for us”.
AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
28th September 2011, 13:10
Interesting stuff. Sound very difficult!
Just how do you know all this sort of stuff? Fountain of knowledge you are.
Raj
28th September 2011, 14:23
“the scene could not have people riding on top of trains, because it is illegal in India and therefore nobody does it (when a quick check on YouTube shows it still happens)”
It used to happen very frequently..but now a days it is not that common. Moreover it doesn’t mean that some thing illegal is happening so that govt can give official permission for illegal things..
If for some reason race didn’t go ahead ..first & foremost loser will be race promoter i.e Jaypee. next biggest loser will be F1 & their sponsors. Most of the tea sponsors are in oneway or in other have strong business interests in india. It will be bitterly embarrassing for all those sponsors after doing such great things about promoting Formula1 in india.
bertie (@bertie)
28th September 2011, 8:47
I think you need to look at what happened in the commonwealth games. Initially was meant to cost $500m and ended up costing around $13bn. Of that 13bn over 10bn is unaccounted for. India is one of the most bureaucratic and corruption nations. I have dealt personally with the Indian government and I would be far more surprised if they get this sorted in time.
On Contrary
28th September 2011, 17:43
@Bertie –
Check this out
http://yhoo.it/oKtG7f
http://bit.ly/pT1CYH
I can list thousands more in all parts of Western world. Its not as if corruption is systemic issue in India or any of the “Third World” Countries as we like to deride them.
Greed is part of Human nature, common people don’t break laws since there are deterrent controls preventing them. While those in power know the work around, may it be India or may it be UK, US and any other country.
BasCB (@bascb)
28th September 2011, 19:04
Exactly “On Contrary”
Here in the Czech Republic its pretty much accepted knowledge, most infrastructure projects, IT, … – in short all government investments are overpriced by about 30-35% on average due to corruption.
PT (@pt)
29th September 2011, 9:58
Bertie, the Commonwealth Games were held by the Indian Olympic Association (or Committee…whatever) which is an arm of the Government and the money squandered was taxpayers’ money.
The Indian Grand Prix is a private endeavor. Corruption takes place at the government level in India. Private firms can’t afford to waste resources and squander cash.
But personally, I don’t think a country like India needs such an obscenely expensive sport. It would have been better to bring WTCC, F3 or IndyCars here first as a street race. They wouldn’t be half as expensive as this for the spectators and it would have really made an impression on the common Indian public.
snowman (@snowman)
28th September 2011, 0:27
It’s kind of different how the Indian Times reports the demo compared to the UK paper!
F1Yankee (@f1yankee)
28th September 2011, 0:58
:D
On Contrary
28th September 2011, 1:35
@least there were no cows or stray dogs in the piece of tarmac as are shown in tourists pictures of India…
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 3:39
According to the Indian government, stray cows and dogs do not walk on the roads of India because it is illegal, and the cows and dogs know this.
Ritesh (@rits)
28th September 2011, 2:31
LOL.. I was there.. it was a bit stupid to watch indeed. The crowd turn out surprised me too, I wasn’t expecting any more than a couple thousand people and a few more who’d join in after hearing the noise, but 40k was huge. Although it was nothing exciting for people like me, I can understand that first-time viewers/spectators would have loved what they saw, which is a good thing. There needs to be a huge push for the sport to catch up and grow in the country..
bosyber (@bosyber)
28th September 2011, 8:56
I bet the organisers were very sorry they didn’t push for a bigger track when they saw how many people showed up. At least all those people show an interest, let’s hope they find a bit of motorsport to do!
lewymp4 (@lewymp4)
29th September 2011, 19:00
Let’s wait and see how people respond, when they have to pay to watch the cars.
BasCB (@bascb)
28th September 2011, 9:54
I hope this was done in time to get the last tickets to the Indian GP get sold.
Fully agree, that its a great way to get people notice and look forward to F1.
On Contrary
28th September 2011, 18:13
There needs to be a huge push for the sport to catch up and grow in the country..
>> @Rits – The shift has already started
http://www.i1superseries.com/index.html
That the Indian motorsports fans have been primed for about 20+ years of F1 broadcast via Satellite Channels. F1 has to move in fast and reap the benefits of that investment.
If those associated with F1 (and that includes Fans) act snobbish and try to dictate terms to the Indian market, they will end up losers, something that happened in the US. US has its own motor sports discipline and we may like it or not Nascar fans are not giving into the F1 hype.
I suspect the same will happen in India and with Indian fans if F1 keeps acting like snoots
PT (@pt)
29th September 2011, 10:06
Don’t worry, Rs. 35,000 for a grandstand seat will keep F1 away from the hearts of the Indian public for a very long time.
On Contrary
29th September 2011, 14:28
@PT –
Exactly my point. Hefty ticketing of F1 plus non accessibility to F1 to the passionate F1 fans is perfect recipe for competition to swoop in. The more fan friendly motor racing series will fill the void and Indian market will find its own fix for motor sports and F1 will miss the boat.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
28th September 2011, 9:57
Thanks for that snowman. Bit of a blunder by the organisers there.
BasCB (@bascb)
28th September 2011, 19:10
Let’s hope the people organising the next one up – a Red Bull demo in Delhi this saturday (got the link via @IndianGP)- will have learnt from that and do better.
On Contrary
28th September 2011, 20:21
The demonstration is more of a reflection of what McLaren’s local sponsors could pull together in Bangalore and not what the City could have offered them.
Check out the video from Coulthard’s demo run in Mumbai two years ago
Looks like those organizers had found a better venue and looking from the crowd support, its not as if Indians are discovering F1 only because of the race next month. They seemed to be aware of it already to show up in large numbers even back then.
And lets remember this is a country where satellite channels have been telecasting F1 for about 20 years now.
Mark Hitchcock (@mark-hitchcock)
29th September 2011, 1:04
Reminds me of the Red Bull Speed Jam event in Cardiff.
They set up a track around Cardiff Bay and Webber did a couple of demo runs. But as the track was primarily laid out as a kart track (for the final of some kart competition, which was the main event), there was no-where for him to get any speed up.
He actually got stuck twice at the hairpins and had to be pushed backwards to do a three point turn.
Not the best demonstration of an F1 car’s qualities.
Especially when Ricciardo came out in a NASCAR which sounded much better.
F1Yankee (@f1yankee)
28th September 2011, 0:36
happy birthday mika hakkinen! 1 of f1’s most awsomest people
F1 98
28th September 2011, 1:10
Happy birthday Mika
Great driver
TED BELL
28th September 2011, 1:24
Do I understand it that Lewis went early to India to get his next driving penalty out of the way??
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 4:20
I think this sumamrises Hamilton’s problems nicely: ignoring the issue isn’t going to do anything. He needs to address it, and work out how he can approach it differently in future. The only thing ignoring it is going to achieve is causing more problems in future.
Fixy (@)
28th September 2011, 16:24
Actually, that was a rather bad attitude by Lewis. So he doesn’t ask sorry because he’s got past it?
Malibu_GP
28th September 2011, 4:59
Do You really think Hamiltom cares what any of the armchair therapists on this site recommend? Get over it, I have.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 5:05
No, he probably doesn’t care. But we’ve seen him deny that there’s a problem earlier this season … and then continue to get himself into more trouble on track. It’s called pattern recognition.
Wooolfy
28th September 2011, 5:26
So what? He’s still making his millions and you…? Nada. Get over it! And on his next contract he’ll get even more. The team he’s with likes him and that’s all that matter.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 5:31
I’m pretty sure Hamilton would like to be making millions and getting good results to boot rather than just making millions.
Or have I upset the Hamilton fans who can’t take criticism of their favourite driver? It’s getting increasingly difficult to justify Hamilton’s on- and off-track behaviour. Something is clearly wrong, and while his team might like him, that can easily change if he doesn’t get his head in the right place. It’s truly ironic that Hamilton’s fans are in denial about his problems this season, because acknowledging his problems and doing something about them will make him a better, faster driver in the long term.
BasCB (@bascb)
28th September 2011, 9:59
I am pretty sure Hamilton would even rather has good results without making the millions than just making the millions if he had to choose.
We can only hope, that Hamilton gets over his streak of trying just too hard, cool down and get back on form. I compare it a bit to what happened to Alonso when he got to face Hamilton (see, immediately it does not look that bad :-) ), with him now facing both Vettel running away with success and the first time a teammate is doing better then him.
JimG (@jimg)
28th September 2011, 11:10
So, you’re saying that Lewis’ fans are emulating their idol by also being in denial? ;-)
RandyMandy (@randymandy)
28th September 2011, 5:18
Most memorable day in my life. The cheer of the crowd was nothing compared to the roar of the 2.4 lit v8 F1 engine.
First time seeing an F1 car in action and my hero behind its wheel.Wooha….Had a hand touch with hami.I couldn’t ask for more… vrooommmm……….
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 5:27
It’s not a circuit being built for Formula 1, but with Jacarepaguá being demolished to make way for the 2016 Olympic Games, Rio is going to build a new circuit to Grade-1 standards. This was the original concept, which took all the worst parts of Motegi and turn them up to 11. However, the project has since been reworked, and this is apaprently the final design. So if ever Formula 1 left Interlagos, I wouldn’t mind it landing in Rio.
Dan Thorn (@dan-thorn)
28th September 2011, 7:53
That looks great. All those fast corners give it a hint of Osterreichring/old Interlagos.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 8:12
I’m just a little confused as to which corner is the first corner.
Dan Thorn (@dan-thorn)
28th September 2011, 9:30
Judging by the tight hairpin, which I guess has been put in as an ‘overtaking spot’, I’d say the left hander in the top left of the picture is turn 1.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 10:05
But using the same logic, the tight right/left behind the pits (“Boxes” on the plan) could be used to slow the cars down for the final corner, suggesting that the racing will go in the other direction.
Maybe it’s a circuit where races can be run in different directions. Which opens up an interesting possibility: Indycar experimented with a twin race format this year, the Firestone Twin 275s at Texas Motor Speedway. The natural extension of having two races at the same circuit on one weekend would be having two races at the same circuit, but each one run in opposite directions. If ever Formula 1 wanted a format shake-up – possibly as a one-off for the final race of the season – then this is what I would suggest: two races on the same circuit, but run in opposite directions. Each race would have its own qualifying and practice sessions. Points for each race would be awarded to the top eight rather than the top ten. Of course, there aren’t really any circuits that could handle reverse-flow racing, so this circuit would have to do it … which means losing Interlagos. And could Formula 1 resort to individual unique formats between races?
Craig Woollard (@craig-o)
29th September 2011, 18:32
No thanks! I think Suzuka should remain as the only figure-of-eight
Rainman (@rainman)
28th September 2011, 5:31
Here is my video of Lewis burning some rubber in bangalore…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LSeDnecqjU
BasCB (@bascb)
28th September 2011, 12:07
Wow, thanks.
Malibu_GP
28th September 2011, 5:59
Only an idiot would try and justify His less than stellar performances this season. So, before You try and lump Me in with anyone else I will clarify My position. I think there is definitely something going on with Young Hamilton lately, but unlike You I dont profess to know the answer. It just seems odd that someone with obvious disdain for him, feels the need to give advice. I just think internet know it alls should give it a rest. Are You gonna suddenly praise him if He does what You deem correct? Hell no! You dont like Him either way. Thats what makes your patronizing drivel seem all the more ridiculous.
AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
28th September 2011, 13:16
We do give him praise, where praise is due.
We do know what is wrong. He’s driving with the wrong attitude at times, except Singapore, that was a mistake.
Maksutov (@maksutov)
3rd October 2011, 12:12
“Know it all” could in fact be the best phrase that explains what is wrong with Hamilton’s driving.
Malibu_GP
28th September 2011, 6:13
Also, earlier in the season there wasnt the same amount of incidents as now. One could argue (rather successfully) that He had a valid point THEN.
US_Peter (@us_peter)
28th September 2011, 6:18
That’s actually pretty interesting. I’ve never understood why there aren’t more figure 8 circuits like Suzuka…
US_Peter (@us_peter)
28th September 2011, 6:19
Whoops, that was intended to be in reply to Prisoner Monkeys above post about Rio.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 6:50
Indeed. I’ve often wondered the same thing myself. I reckon that you could reasonably turn Singapore into a figure-eight with a temporary flyover (after Turn 7, the cars go down the Esplanade Bridge, then loop back up around to what it currently Turn 9, go under the circuit and head on towards Piquet’s Corner) and solve the problem of the Singapore Sling (the approaching speeds would be much, much lower, thus removing the need for the chicane). Turning Abu Dhabi into a figure-eight could also solve a lot of the problems with the circuit.
Craig Woollard (@craig-o)
29th September 2011, 18:34
The Singapore idea is really good! The Singapore Sling is such a useless corner… Unless you’re Mark Webber.
bertie (@bertie)
28th September 2011, 12:14
I think the simple answer is cost. Either building a raised track or a tunnel requires a huge amount of earth to be moved about.
Malibu_GP
28th September 2011, 6:23
As well, I dont think those that have never achieved greatness on any level are really qualified to judge. Can You relate to him at all, on any level? Hack sports writers, bloggers, and critics in general get no respect from the greats nor I. The laudas, stewarts, jordons, woods of the world really could care less what You think. When they critisize it has meaning. You? Not so much…
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 6:43
No – but don’t you think that’s a problem? Shouldn’t a racing driver be someone the spectators can relate to? People like Kamui Kobayashi because he has that never-say-die attitude that fans think more drivers should have. They like Heikki Kovalainen because he can laugh at himself and because he can take the poor(er) performance of his car in its stride and make the most of it. They like Felipe Massa because of the way he handled Interlagos 2008. But right now, Lewis Hamilton comes across and cold and distant, with a head too big for his helmet. There is nothing likeable about him – the “don’t ever touch me again!” comment springs to mind – and his insistence that nothing is wrong with him or his driving insists that he sees no need to change anything, and so will continue to be cold and arrogant.
Marginalise my comments all you want. But it doesn’t – and more to the point, it won’t – change the fact that something is clearly going on with him. He is constantly getting in trouble on- and off-track, he is failing to live up to expectations, and is generally having a poor season. Sure, the car was bad in 2009, but he turned it around into a good season. But in 2011, the car is good, and Hamilton is not making the most of it. If he was driving as well as Button is, then he could be in a position where even if Vettel’s title was inevitable, he would not be able to claim it until much later in the season.
And yet, Lewis Hamilton continues to deny there is a problem.
@HoHum (@hohum)
28th September 2011, 15:03
Not entirely true PM, by admitting Jenson is performing better he is acknowledging that he has a problem. I think he will do some serious thinking between now and next season. Let’s hope he finds the right balance.
Maksutov (@maksutov)
3rd October 2011, 12:25
Hamilton will “eventually” do some thinking (I am certain of it), but that will take longer than we think. For now, it is more likely that he will continue plotting along as is and will get lucky here and there. But his current acknowledgment to Buttons performance over his is a bit of a “rub it in my face” response. It is more of an acceptance of the situation rather than an acknowledgment.
Malibu_GP
28th September 2011, 6:57
Dude, if Massa did that to Me especially when I was 25, there wouldve been no one there that couldve pulled me off him.
I think LH exercised a great deal of restrai djnt. I dont really expect soft guys to understand my stance here though. He isnt a politician, Massa is lucky He didnt get knocked out. Cold! Like You did back in school
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 7:52
And your actions would have been condsidered unprofessional and childish at best, and disgraceful at worst.
Oh, I understand your stance perfectly: you seem to think it’s appropriate for someone to resort to physical violence in the face of someone hurting their feelings.
If Lewis Hamilton is so thin-skinned that he can’t take a sarcastic barb from a driver whose race he ruined (and therefore has more right to be upset than Hamilton), then he has no business being a Formula 1 driver because he obviously can’t handle the pressure. This isn’t a schoolyard – it’s the pinnacle of motorsport. There is a gaping chasm between the two. If Hamilton had punched Massa out, no matter how much Massa had it coming (and he didn’t; if anybody had it coming to them, it was Hamilton), then the FIA probably would have banned Hamilton for two races at the very least. And I don’t think anybody would have disagreed with them – even the people who complain when Hamilton lands himself in hot water and gets a drive-through. Lewis Hamilton was not the victim in Singapore; he was the villain. He ruined Massa’s race after coming very close to ruining his qualifying. And you think a physical assault on Massa was justified?
xbx-117 (@xbx-117)
28th September 2011, 19:33
I don’t think a physical assault would be necessary, but I know I would have taken it as an aggressive action and most likely shoved him away, or flipped him off. If you are angry at another person, but you don’t want to have a fight, its a good idea to not touch the other person.
I think Hamilton did the right thing in that situation and showed restraint, simply told him not to touch him. No expletives, no gestures, no physical retaliation, pretty much every check on the PR no-no list.
Malibu_GP
28th September 2011, 8:23
I think if You are Man enough to talk smack, then Be Mam enough to back it up. Like I said I dont expect You to understand that. You speak as though He ruimed his race intentionally. It is kind of hard to be contrite when someone is taunting You. Being a pro athlete doesnt negate the fact that males butt heads on occasion. Ask a soldier, or NFL player or a hockey player for that matter. The bottom line for me is this, You cant expect a young redblooded male to be on his best behaviour at all times. Im not here to defend as much as to tell You that Your self righteousness is sickening sometime. You seem like a reasonably intelligent guy, so maybe You can findsomething else to harp on about. Seriously
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 8:38
Oh, I understand it perfectly. It’s the kind of mentality I would expect from my year eight students. Not professional sportsmen.
Maybe not, but is it too much to ask them to keep it civil when they’re on live television being beamed to millions across the world while wearing sponsors’ logos in plain view? And that’s not even taking into account the way the footage of fisticuffs would be uploaded to YouTube and viewed another million times in the course of one night.
If Hamilton had attacked Massa, he probably would have received a two-race suspension from the FIA, with the promise of further action if Massa pressed charges of assault and Hamilton found guilty. Hamilton would no doubt have lost millions of dollars in sponsorship deals, and at the very least, threatened a lot of McLaren’s minor sponsors. At worst, McLaren might face pressure from those sponsors to drop Hamilton entirely and find someone more personable for the team – Paul di Resta, maybe, or Bruno Senna. And if he was dropped, other teams might be very reluctant to take him on. If they did, it would be with a smaller team, and it would be years before Hamilton’s stock would improve enough to get back into a top team.
Now, would jeopardising all of that be worth slugging Massa one for a simple comment?
moorey717 (@)
28th September 2011, 9:40
Yes, he would and should have been hung out to dry if he’d done any of those things. Fact is he didn’t, so what’s the problem? Shouldn’t we give him some credit for not rising to the bait?
As for the “don’t touch me again” comment – is that really so bad? There’s no threat of consequences, no bad language, no intimidation. What is your point exactly?
sebsronnie (@sebsronnie)
28th September 2011, 11:07
+1
I also can’t believe PM is harping on and on about the “don’t touch me again” comment? Really?
Marv-i-lo-so
28th September 2011, 8:47
LMAO…you are so right on with the “self-righteous”.. people acting like their some untainted souls…..
Hell, people seem to forget no matter how hard you try the drivers are just humans,(bleed red blood, require O2 to live, happened to pass waste like the rest of us) and do you know what humans do? we react to things, it is innate!, the most control of us will still be riled by actions “which affects things personal to us”
Lewis, nor any of the drivers is a saint!
funny thing for those hating on lewis,
In the past 5yrs Lewis as contributed to increasing the profile of the of sport F1, so that your fav driver can have a higher exposure. and earn more money. i’ll add Alonso.to that… as one fan said these “armchair commentators on here giving advise to the drivers should realise: they don’t care” the same way you would not care about taking advice from some random stranger , who wants you to crash or conform to their view point…. onto the next race!
bearforce1 (@bearforce1)
28th September 2011, 9:00
I am unsure where is began but people are confusing criticism with hatred.
I can be critical of someone and not hate them.
I am not a fan of Lewis but I don’t hate him or any driver.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 9:09
And yet, teams and sponsors expect their drivers to keep a level head at all times. Especially when they are on camera. Lewis Hamilton seems to be the only one who has trouble with this. When Tonio Liuzzi crashed into Vitaly Petrov and Nico Rosberg and forced Rubens Barrichello to come to a halt in the middle of the chicane at Monza, did any of them lash out at Liuzzi? When Sebastian Buemi punted Nick Heidfeld off the circuit in Germany, did Heidfeld att him? When Michael Schumacher turned Kobayashi around at Silverstone, why didn’t Kobayashi go after Schumacher? When Daniel Ricciardo crashed into Timo Glock last weekend, ultiamtely leading to Glock’s retirement from the race, why didn’t Glock storm into the Hispania pit garage and give Ricciardo a roasting?
That’s just six examples from this year alone of on-track incidents where one party was clearly at fault for ruining the races of another. And yet, despite your claims that young, red-blooded males can be compeltely reactionary, all six of those drivers – Rosberg, Petrov, Barrichello, Kobayashi, Heidfeld and Glock – managed to keep their cool and be utterly civilised in the face of one person upsetting their respective apple carts. So please, tell me why it would be perfectly acceptable for Lewis Hamilton to physically lash out against Massa for a single comment after the race? And moreover, why should we be expected to let it slide?
That doesn’t mean he should be allowed to do as he pleases without thought or consequence. Especially since other drivers have similar achievements – Robert Kubica brought Formula 1 to eastern Europe. Fernando Alonso single-handedly revived it in Spain. Mark Webber has attracted enormous interest in Australia. Lewis Hamilton is not the only thing keeping Formula 1 alive. It was doing just fine before him, and it will do just as well after he retires.
Looking at his results this season, I’d say Jenson Button doesn’t need Lewis Hamilton to give him more exposure.
Tango (@tango)
28th September 2011, 9:18
We must have seen different footages. The way it was depicted here (and the way it seems) is that Massa is the sore and unwitty one in the altercation. If I am a ferrari sponsor, I’d rather not have Massa do what he did, whereas no sponsor would object to Hamilton’s reaction.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 9:30
Watch it again, but this time turn up the volume. Hamilton is looking away from the camera and his voice is a little drowned out by the people around him, but he clearly says “Don’t ever touch me again!” to Massa.
Tango (@tango)
28th September 2011, 9:46
Oh well, I’m sure Massa can live with that.
Marv-i-lo-so
28th September 2011, 9:37
I don’t recall at any point lewis attacking anyone with physical contact, if we are talking about the Massa incident, well ‘massa hit hamilton not the other-way round’ …and i’m certain, hell in some places that could be seen as common assault’….but any way, lets ignore that!
All those drivers you mention at some point spoke of their unhappiness at being taken out their different races, massa was correct to do so also only (natural),…However the point you made about your eight year old kids behaviour, at which point did massa not seem like one them? you asked should verbal comments be turned into physical violence, NO! yet massa’s actions were questionable, now that’s me being all picky!…… hell F1 was coasting along, before lewis /alonso, etc, interms of appeal to the mass audience, if you were not a fan of F1 the people you mentioned would sill be on the inner circle, now because of the hype around specific divers they have some shine! do you think uncle bernie with his money hungry fangs and talons would let LH out of F1,, that man would sell is two kidneys before that happens..why because he has market appeal, and because all of us ,, haters and supports keep talking about the dude, the exposure grows!. comes back to my point your fav driver now has a bit of Lew-Ham shine loool…..
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 9:42
No, I didn’t say that.
Check out the last page of this thread; that’s where the discussion began. You will probably need to read each of the posts Malibu_GP made which I responded to. Malibu suggested that Hamilton would have been completely justified in punching Massa in response to Massa’s taunt. That is the behaviour that I said I would expect from my eight-grade students and not from professional sportsmen. I can understand a driver voicing displeasure at someone else ruining his race, and even venting if it was a particualrly stupid move that put him out. But there is a line to what is acceptable, and assaulting another driver in response to a comment is well and truly over it.
sebsronnie (@sebsronnie)
28th September 2011, 11:09
And so, if I may ask, why did Massa have to seek out and confront Lewis? And why is it that you didn’t write pages and pages of comments criticizing each of the six you mention at the time?
verstappen (@verstappen)
28th September 2011, 8:33
I live in the Netherlands. I think our 52% tax is already way too high. But 70%?
Seriously, I think this is a major cut for the smaller teams. And to tax straightforward 1/19th is also not fair. Look at all the demo’s (English subtitles) teams do, where they promote stuff. This is part of their sponsorship deals, so a way to generate income apart form racing. And what if you don’t gain any points in India? Then you have less price-money.
In the end, the promotor will probably pay this also. Meaning even more money down the drain to organise a race.
All this doesn’t help the long term future of the event.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 8:55
The government’s attitude seems to be “we’ll do something for you if you do something for India”. Check out my post on the first page of this article about the kind of hoops production crews have to jump through just to get permission to shoot in India – they have to portray the country in a way that is positive for India, but not necessarily an accurate depiction of the country. New Delhi evidently feels that the Indian Grand Prix does something for Formula 1, but also that Formula 1 should do something for India, and so they are willing to tax the teams (and possible the drivers). I’ve crunched the numbers; if every team has a turnover of US$19 million annually (which is not altogether unheard of, since the smaller teams are operating on budgets of ~$50 million), and the government claims 70% tax on 1/19th of each team’s turnover, that means the government claims US$8.4 million total. Which, under today’s conversion rate, is 410,306,956(.76) rupees. Given that the tems will be in India for five days (arrive on the Wednesday, leave on Monday), that’s 82,061,391(.02) rupees, or US$1,679,198.77 per day. And that’s without taking into account the money they would get from the drivers.
How is this anything but an attempt by New Delhi to score some extra cash?
Raj
28th September 2011, 14:34
Where on earth did you read govt claiming 70% tax? Your calculations says about your financial knowledge. no where on earth any country levies tax on turnover (revenue).. I think it is about teams & drivers are too hysterical about taxes. They are acting like no international sporting action took place in india all along & they are first one to arrive in india.
What is wrong in govt wishing positive aspects of india to be shown to world. every country has it’s own good & bad things. If they don’t want to show positive aspects of india..then they (Bond 23) shouldn’t be coming to india. India is not interested in them.
BasCB (@bascb)
28th September 2011, 17:00
I think Raj, that the taxes being leveraged are indeed extraordinary.
Normally one taxes their complete incomes in the place of living, although I know that in Tennis etc. there were tax authorities claiming a stake because they disputed the fact these sportsmen/-women lived in one place (for constantly travelling abroad). As far as I know this matter was since settled with a method of calculating possible multiple tax regimes in almost all countries.
by the way, that 70% is taken for the article in the roundup
Malibu_GP
28th September 2011, 8:56
Im sorry captive chimp, hopefully all is forgiven. Why not meet Me in Austin next year and we can discuss it? I would love to talk in person.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 9:11
Because I can’t afford it. I can barely afford a digital television connection, much less travelling all the way to America for a Grand Prix.
Tango (@tango)
28th September 2011, 9:20
With the huge (and at least entertaining) amount of comments you leave, I’d wondered which job you had (so I can go directly to the work agency and ask for it)
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 9:29
I’m a university student and part-time high school teacher. Hopefully soon to become full-time.
Tango (@tango)
28th September 2011, 10:16
I knew I shouldn’t have stopped when i got my engineering and carried on with a thesis
beneboy (@beneboy)
28th September 2011, 10:56
Which explains so much…
Malibu_GP
28th September 2011, 9:30
You are a riot friend. Your examples would make sense if LH had done as I would have. Telling someone to get lost is not the height of bad behaviour. Please refer to my comment @ 5:59. You act as though he flipped him off. I believe Your blind disdain has clouded your judgement. I am telling you that in the eyes of those who are truly impartial LH is not the devil incarnate. Your incessant blathering has made my three stooges episodes less funny. Hey, I can come to aus though it has been awhile. Last time was on my way to bali.Surfed margarets river mouth there. It was pumping. Funny, most cats I meet from aus seem less dare I say girlie… Seriously tho, I dont see ham as a villain that day as u do. I see him as having screwed up and the last thing he needed was massa taunting him while being interviewed. U ever get in the water chimpster? Probly not, surfing big waves aint for the timid.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 9:38
No, I’m saying his post-race behaviour towards Massa when compared to similar on-track sitautions between other drivers is an example of Hamilton’s lack of respect for other drivers, and evidence of his state of mind, which is currently unfocused at best. When Jaime Alguersuari crashing into him at Spa in 2009, or when he collided with Webber in Singapore last year, for instance, he did not resort to an angry and public outburst the way he did to Massa. What Hamilton needs is to reassess and make the necessary adjustments, rather than ignore the problem, because doing so will only continue the downward spiral.
moorey717 (@)
28th September 2011, 9:53
Again, what angry and public outburst toward Massa?
If you mean the “don’t touch me comment”, put your grey cells to a little test and come up with the circumstances and reason why that happened. Then, once you’ve got it, imagine how smoothly and calmly everyone would have conducted their media pen interviews had that “reason” kept their mouth shut and hands to themselves.
Apologies for any sarcasm and arrogance shown here but apparently I’m allowed to do it without fear of similar retaliation.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
28th September 2011, 10:16
If you look at it as a case of Hamilton responding to Massa as a case of tit-for-tat, then yes – Massa is at fault.
Except that isn’t what happened. At all. It went something like this:
1) Hamilton hit Massa.
2a) Massa got a puncture.
2b) Hamilton got a penalty.
3) Massa made a smart remark.
4) Hamilton retaliated.
And if you want to go even further back, it looks like this:
1) Hamilton forced his way past Massa in qualifying.
2) Massa’s flying lap was ruined.
3) Hamilton hit Massa in the race.
4a) Massa got a puncture.
4b) Hamilton got a penalty.
5) Massa made a smart remark.
6) Hamilton retaliated.
Hamiltom might have been baited by Massa, but Massa was only reacting to what Hamilton did on-track. Which means Hamilton is more guilty of misbehaving than Massa is.
Why would they “keep their mouths shut and hands to themselves” at yet another example of Lewis Hamilton showing a complete disregard and lack of respect for his fellow competitors? More to the point, why should they? This isn’t an isolated incident – he compromised Massa’s qualifying lap in Singapore, blamed Kamui Kobayashi for the accident in Belgium without viewing any video footage of the incident (to his credit, he later admitted fault) and described the other drivers as idiots after his horror run at Monaco. Once might be an accident, and twice a coincidence, but three times is a pattern. Lewis Hamilton cares about nobody but Lewis Hamilton, for which his rightly deserves criticism.
moorey717 (@)
28th September 2011, 12:09
Hang on, you’ve mentioned six applaudable cases further up where drivers had races compromised but kept their own counsel and did not vent their frustrations at the perceived cause of their misfortune. Yet here you’re saying “why should Massa keep his mouth shut and hands off Hamilton”?
Anticipating your response to be something along the lines of “Hamilton is a repeat offender against Massa”, well then do you really think it was wise to exacerbate and potentially prolong a feud between the two? When the two had a coming together in Monaco I seem to remember Hamilton attempting to diffuse the situation by apologising (to Massa and Maldonado). If there is blame to apportion off the track here it lies with Massa unfortunately.
Certainly, the on-track incident was Hamilton’s fault alone either from being impetuous or a plain misjudgement but barring the stewards comment from Monaco I think he’s walked the straight and narrow path in his off-track comments and conduct (certainly in Singapore).
Malibu_GP
28th September 2011, 9:44
Look, stop trying to make that seem like a capital offense. If someone that You know despises you did that, it might make you a bit uneasy. Like I said I think he exercised restraint. I bet if I asked my good friend the LA county sheriff swat team member, or my navy seal friend, or most men,I know what the reaction would be. You, my friend better not turn those 8 year olds all girly. Please tell me you are not a phys ed teacher. God help them if so
Malibu_GP
28th September 2011, 10:01
Well, I dont know about completely justified. What I meant was he was lucky he didnt evoke a much more harsh reaction. I went on to say had it been me at that age…, whew massa wouldve been going to the dentist. Of course you have to assume I know the disastrous conseqeunces that wouldve created for LH. nd for the kids reading no its not alright to solve problems with violence. I still feel like massa deserved more than he received. ( not in the race) I live in a world (LA)where people that act like that get dealt with accordingly. Ya go in the wrong bar and grab some chicks butt, or disrespect someones team and ya get bruised a bit. Oftentimes, that straightens people up. They learn respect. Filipe Baby needs to learn a lil respect. LH is light uears beyond your skill level son! Face it and you wont be so angry anymore. Stop defending as if your life depends on it. It is pathetic. There happy
Selidor
28th September 2011, 10:16
Hamilton reckons he can pass off as an Indian…Plus generic Interview answers from CNN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB9UKFsSj88&feature=related
davey (@djdaveyp87)
28th September 2011, 11:14
I must be the longest serving member of f1fanatic to not get comment of the day! NO matter how hard I try :'(
HounslowBusGarage (@hounslowbusgarage)
28th September 2011, 12:41
COTD!
AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
28th September 2011, 13:32
I can’t be far off either, 1 year and counting ;)
beneboy (@beneboy)
28th September 2011, 15:43
Don’t try so hard then :-)
My COTD came from a post that I wrote while feeling quite “tired and emotional” and I was quite shocked when Keith picked it.
Craig Woollard (@craig-o)
29th September 2011, 18:39
Mine came when I was actually not slagging off Max Mosely for a change :D It was on one of the Jean Todt approval ratings I believe
Maksutov (@maksutov)
3rd October 2011, 12:34
you’re not thinking straight ;)
themagicofspeed (@)
29th September 2011, 19:15
If i was a racing team manager, already there is no way i would be sending any of my team to India. Absoloutley bokers to do that, the Indian government and their idiocy can whistle for it. If they dont back down, i hope there is a boycott, for then the world will know how stupid they have been, and there will be nobody to blame but themselves.
Maksutov (@maksutov)
3rd October 2011, 12:31
Please keep your posts short ..! I cant be fraked reading everything. It might help to realize that the longer your post the less likely it will be read.