Felipe Massa: “Hamilton doesn’t learn”

F1 Fanatic round-up

In today?s round-up: Felipe Massa thinks the FIA should get tough on Lewis Hamilton following another incident between the pair at the Japanese Grand Prix.

Links

Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Massa asks FIA to get tough with Hamilton after Japanese Grand Prix clash (Autosport)

“They have penalised people for much less this year and this time they didn’t do it. It’s the second time in a row after the problem in qualifying as well in the last race, and after what happened yesterday. And after many times this year. The FIA needs to take care of that. They are the only ones who can take care of that.”

Red Bull Racing’s videos (Facebook)

Sebastian Vettel?s video message to his fans.

Japanese Grand Prix from the pit lane with Ted Kravitz (BBC F1)

??BBC F1 pit-lane reporter Ted Kravitz with the behind-the-scenes gossip in the aftermath of the Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka.

Murray Walker’s verdict on Sebastian Vettel (BBC F1)

??Formula 1 commentary legend Murray Walker gives his assessment of Sebastian Vettel and what the 2010 and 2011 world champion can go on to achieve in the sport.??

FIA post-race press conference (Formula1.com)

??Fernando [Alonso], now [Sebastian Vettel] is the youngest two time World Champion; you?ve lost that title. What does it mean to you now?

??FA: Really nothing special. I think now we will see who is the youngest three time World Champion.??

I am living the life of a F1 driver: Karthikeyan (Hindustan Times)

Video interview with Narain Karthikeyan ahead of the Indian Grand Prix.

Formula 1, rally and motorcycle stars lined up for kart event in Spain (Autosport)

??Barcelona’s Olympic Palau Sant Jordi will host an inaugural, all-star, indoor karting event on December 18. Six current Formula 1 drivers will compete against top competitors from MotoGP and the World Rally Championship.??

As Hamilton fluffs his lines again, Mansell chides: Lewis has an attitude problem (Daily Mail)

??Lewis has to work on an attitude problem,’ said Mansell, a winner of 31 grands prix. He needs to get his head in a better place. You have to manage your car better than Lewis has done on too many occasions this season. Too many times he has positioned his car where he has caused an incident.??

Jo??o Paulo Oliveira via Twitter

??Back in 05 Macau F3 GP I was really annoyed by a certain rookie driver who knocked me out of a podium. Now that guy is 2x F1 world champion.??

The time Scuderia Ferrari told me off (Doctorvee)

??Early on during this morning?s Japanese Grand Prix, Fernando Alonso overtook Felipe Massa. Massa didn?t make it difficult for Alonso ? not that you would expect him to. I have to admit to doing a little victory dance in my chair at having riled Ferrari enough to provoke them to reply.??

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Comment of the day

Have you rated the race? Steph says:

I don?t want to put a downer on Seb because I love him and I?ve just watched the forum and I?m positively delighted for him but I thought he was a bit crazy at the start. He developed a nasty habit last year of chopping people at the start and trying to scare them out of the way (Germany for example) and I thought he had grown out of it but it wasn?t nice to see it make a comeback today. He?s been so, so close to perfection all year and fully deserves this title but that really annoyed me at the start.

JB?s win was my favourite ever of his. He was very calm after the start and got his revenge in great style. I?ve said before that I wanted to see him win in dry conditions and showcase his speed and that?s exactly what he did. I may be a Ferrari fan and he?s a in a Mclaren but I really enjoyed watching him.

I?m delighted for Alonso. He?s my driver of the day (JB for the weekend). The way he managed his race and set the car up was just so smart. It?s like he came out of nowhere, steadily climbed up while others made mistakes and somehow managed to push JB a bit too in that awful car.

Congrats to all three podium occupants today. JB deserved his win, Alonso deserved 2nd place and Vettel more than deserved his title. It was beautiful to watch the celebrations and he fans were still there cheering! The Japanese fans are just diamonds.

I was a bit surprised to see Mark wasn?t with the Red Bull team celebrating which is bad form and bad PR.
Steph

From the forum

Thanks for all the suggestions so far for new F1 Fanatic groups – add your ideas in the forum.

Happy birthday!

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On this day in F1

James Hunt won the United States Grand Prix East 35 years ago today, setting up a championship showdown at the final race in Japan.

Niki Lauda finished third behind Jody Scheckter, keeping a three-point lead over Hunt heading into the last race.

Here are some highlights from the race:

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169 comments on Felipe Massa: “Hamilton doesn’t learn”

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  1. MGriffin90 (@mgriffin90) said on 10th October 2011, 0:03

    I think the term “racing incident” completely passed by Felipe Massa. If he’s hit in any way, the other guy should be penalised, more so if it’s Lewis. Deary me…

    • Macca (@macca) said on 10th October 2011, 1:15

      It was the same move he made on Kamui at Spa, he deserved a penalty.

      • Mike (@mike) said on 10th October 2011, 6:27

        It was just as daft, but did it?

        Do we really want to be screaming for a penalty when someone makes a stupid mistake? I don’t think so.

        • GameR_K (@gamer_k) said on 10th October 2011, 7:03

          Repeated stupid mistakes – YES

          • Mads (@mads) said on 10th October 2011, 10:13

            I agree!
            one stupid mistake, if it isn’t bad enough to cause a serious accident of cause, should go free. Maybe with a warning depending on how serious it is.
            But do it four times, against the same driver alone, and quite a few other times as well against other drivers. I don’t think the stewards should give him much room for error.
            I simply don’t see how repeated accidents, one after the other, like that can be accepted.
            It should be hit down on, and hit down on hard. As Hamilton really needs to get it into his head, that he should look at his own driving and see where he can improve and erase the errors.
            So that he can show us what a brilliant racing driver he really is, instead of looking like fool.
            Which is quite sad, really.

          • lubhz (@lubhz) said on 10th October 2011, 12:30

            Agreed, repeated stupid mistakes AND damaging someone else’s tyres and front wings

          • Mark (@marlarkey) said on 10th October 2011, 13:38

            Massa is correct when he says “Hamilton doesn’t learn”. He ruined Massa’s race, and he risked ruining his own.

            Once is a driving incident, repeatedly ruining other people’s races (actually repeatedly ruining Massa’s race) is not on.

            Anyone remember James Hunt’s nickname – “Hunt the shunt” ?

            Unless Hamilton gets his head together he’ll never win the championship again… he’ll be Jacques Villeneuve all over again… a one time champion with a chip on his shoulder. Meanwhile Button will quietly and effectively go on outperforming him.

          • ed24f1 (@ed24f1) said on 10th October 2011, 14:01

            Agreed. Every driver gets the benefit of the doubt for an error every now and then, but that erodes the more errors you make.

          • well … it takes two to tango, Massa just need to learn keep his mouth shut and not crying as if he always a victim.

      • SennaNmbr1 (@) said on 10th October 2011, 11:31

        Definitely same as Spa. Looking into the corner whilst drifting twards the outside of the track in a straight line.

        • JCost (@jcost) said on 10th October 2011, 14:20

          Same in Canada too? Lewis is to blame in all clashes involving, or not, Lewis Hamilton. :)

          • mcmclaren said on 10th October 2011, 20:33

            I guess you guys missed the FIA report then,

            ‘lewis took his normal racing line through the corner’

            or are you trying to say lewis should have given way cos someone was attempting to overtaking him?

            FACT

            massa should not have been there and was lucky he didn’t get a penalty for cauisng an avoidable accident

            ah, perhaps that’s massa’s issue…he thinks people should just move out of his way…after all, its what he does…isn’t it?

            perhaps alonso could answer that 1

    • Eggry (@eggry) said on 10th October 2011, 1:45

      I support your idea in some reason, PM.

    • Dobin1000 (@dobin1000) said on 10th October 2011, 11:27

      I wish he would just change the record…

      Has he been reprogrammed with whatever hypnotherapy technique Ferrari used on Rubens when he was Michael’s team-mate? Only explanation I can come up with for the constant whining and lack of fight against Alonso. Although it does seem to have had the unexpected side effect of seriously hampering his ability to actually race.

      • Bigbadderboom (@bigbadderboom) said on 10th October 2011, 16:13

        @dobin1000 I agree this is more about Massa deflecting attention away from his own poor showing this year, his comments about Lewis are quite aggresive and I think he may be feeling pressure from within the team and still harbouring resentment from how the 2008 season ended. I have been critical of Hamilton recently and still believe that he needs to get his head together but the last thing we want is penaltie being handed out everytime cars bang wheels, and just for the record I thought Vettels move on Jenson at the start was far worse and more dangerous, but I don’t want the steralisation of F1 and would rather have these debates and listen to Massas wild rants than watch 26 cars follow eachother around to scared to make a move in case they loose positions. The whole point of DRS was to reduce the gamble of overtaking and encourage drivers to make the move, over stewardship would have the reverse effect and stop drivers taking a chance, i’m not advercating dangerous driving just exiting racing.

    • Antranik (@antranik) said on 10th October 2011, 12:31

      Considering how many times he has had stupid collissions like that one I think they should have penalized him. And like said before, he has already gotten penalties for much less. Repeated stupid mistakes should be considered more and more severe every time they happen. Lewis has had contact with Massa something like 5 times in just this year and I can’t recall a single one that wasn’t caused by him doing a stupid mistake. I’m no F1 driver and therefore my opinion is definitely not worth a lot, but by this point I feel like it is easy to see that he is definitely doing the same dumb mistakes over and over again.

  2. PaxJes (@paxjes) said on 10th October 2011, 0:03

    As Peter Griffin would say:
    “Shut up Massa!”

    • F1andy83 said on 10th October 2011, 1:24

      Agreed. Stop crying massa and go drive. What a babe. He might as well go play with dolls.

    • Mclarengirl said on 10th October 2011, 13:29

      Massa needs to man up, and stop this constant grizzling

    • Mr Slim said on 10th October 2011, 15:56

      Well, Massa’s carping is annoying – but his frustration is understandable. He’s treated with complete disrespect by his own team, and has been completely sacrificed to Fernando ‘The Only Man in the Team’ Alonso. Even if he got a podium, the team would probably demand he climb up there wearing an Alonso mask.

      So he’s lashing out at easy targets, rather than the team who pays his wages. No, it isn’t pretty but I still feel a bit sorry for him. He was nearly WDC, but a crash and Alonso’s arrival have wiped out his career, so it’s not surprising he’s a bit bitter

  3. James (@jamesf1) said on 10th October 2011, 0:09

    Massa needs to put a lid on it now. I know it’s a ruthless sport, but I’m bored of hearing him berate everyone around him, complain and moan. He needs to focus on his own driving and figure out how to get a number on Alonso, quickly, if he fancies any chance of getting an extension to his contract and be with Ferrari until 2013.

    • Berate everyone around him? He’s only had a go at the same guy he keeps crashing into him which I feel is perfectly understandable.

      • davidwhite (@davidwhite) said on 10th October 2011, 11:11

        Well Massa has crashed into most people to be fair. Unfortunately for Lewis, he’s made Massa look stupid in the past (Malaysia 2007 comes to mind – terrible, terrible overtaking attempts) and Massa is fighting for his F1 career. Just like a losing football player blames the referee rather than his own perfomance, Massa is looking for a scape goat. Massa should be focussing on his own driving. To qualify a whole second behind your team mate in Singapore….not even his Mum could be proud of him after that…

        • David BR (@david-br) said on 10th October 2011, 13:06

          It’s true, Lewis regularly breezes past Felipe – except when the latter closes the door and they collide. But my theory is that this Massa fixation on Hamilton dates back to the unhealthy Ferrari-FIA-Moseley ‘short-circuit’ during the 2008 season when Massa was fighting (often very well) for the title. Some of the penalties given to Hamilton were absurd and they had a major effect on the championship battle – to Massa’s benefit. So in this kind of situation are you, Massa, going to admit you’re benefitting unfairly from some weird decisions or back FIA/the stewards to preserve your own dignity? I think Felipe Massas’s obsession with FIA/the stewards ‘teaching’ Hamilton lessons can be traced back to this season. Especially given how it ended. Added to that is Alonso arriving and with him a whole new set of issues with one particular driver, though Alonso himself seems to have got past his McLaren baggage now that his biggest rival is actually Vettel. Massa has frozen in time, though, after being demoted to bit-part player at Ferrari. My own view is that he is – or was – a fast enough driver and has enough experience to drive for another team and feel much better about it. He may finish a few players further down, but I’d have thought it’d be more rewarding for him personally to be able to really fight on equal terms with his team mate again. But maybe it’s the money and Ferrari fame that counts.

          • JCost (@jcost) said on 10th October 2011, 14:17

            Lewis said he didn’t see Massa. Vettel said he didn’t see Button! Something is wrong with those rearview mirrors…

            However, FIA said Lewis was following that line lap after lap.

  4. Antony Butler (@butler_f1) said on 10th October 2011, 0:11

    Jeez, im not even a fan of Lewis and even im bored of Mansell relentless comments on Lewis, yawn. At least Nicky Lauda is entertaining when he speaks his nonsense.

    • davidwhite (@davidwhite) said on 10th October 2011, 2:43

      Does anyone else think it’s a bit rich for Mansell to be criticising Hamilton for not looking after his car during a race?

      Mansell would have been a triple world champion if he’d have mastered this himself! Come on Nige, you’ve got to see the irony!

      • Oblong_Cheese (@oblong_cheese) said on 10th October 2011, 4:03

        Hindsight is 20/20 – Mansell is drawing on reflection from his past to make such a statement, no?

        • BasCB (@bascb) said on 10th October 2011, 7:50

          A nice an positive interpretation indeed. Shows Mansell now knows what he might have done better and wants to tell Hamilton.
          But it would be better if he said it like that, maybe someone would like to hear that from him.

          • davidwhite (@davidwhite) said on 10th October 2011, 10:57

            @BasCB – Yep, definitely agree with that. It just comes across as a bit rich otherwise. I actually agree with some of Mansell’s thoughts – it just sitting well coming from him of all people!

      • uan (@uan) said on 10th October 2011, 4:11

        folks seem to be getting down on Mansell, but I don’t see what he’s doing as just being critical of Hamilton for no other purpose than to be critical. He’s giving suggestions to Hamilton in the hopes that Hamilton will fully realize his potential.

      • TimG (@timg) said on 10th October 2011, 10:39

        I read Mansell’s comment as criticising Hamilton for not managing his car better, i.e. by not being able to put in a second flying lap in Q3 in Japan, not for not looking after his car mechanically.

      • I really think this is Mansells way of saying “Learn by my mistakes”, just without him having to admit he’s ever made any.

  5. cduk_mugello (@cduk_mugello) said on 10th October 2011, 0:19

    I can’t understand all this anti-Massa talk. It’s as though people think that because Massa was on the outside of the corner, it suddenly makes it acceptable for another driver to drift over on him.

    Put yourself in his situation. After all the comings together with Hamilton this year, would you stay silent? It’s a bit like the straw that broke the camel’s back.

    Anyhow, I’m really surprised by this latest incident. It’s very similar to the Hamilton/Kobayashi incident from Spa. Hamilton needs to start learning from these things or I can see him turning into another Jacques Villeneuve – if that hasn’t already happened.

    • xbx-117 (@xbx-117) said on 10th October 2011, 1:17

      In this circumstance though, it was deemed a racing incident. In the past Hamilton has gotten a penalty (justly or unjustly), and so served his sentence. This time even the stewards saw no need to reprimand him. They also didn’t penalize Webber for running into Schumacher (Webber also ran into Massa back in Monza), or Vettel for crowding Button on the start (even though they reviewed the incident). Everyone was very aggressive and the stewards just let them race. I don’t think any party should be complaining after this race as everyone was given equal treatment.

    • TheBrav3 said on 10th October 2011, 4:38

      “Put yourself in his situation. After all the comings together with Hamilton this year, would you stay silent? It’s a bit like the straw that broke the camel’s back.”

      The straw that broke the camels back for felipe was the first time they came together this year in monaco which wouldn’t have happened had felipe given more room, like hamilton did when schumacher went up the inside on him at lowes.

      To make my point clearer the word silent is not in massa’s vocabulary he’s been nothing but vocal of his dislike for hamilton all year and everyone in the world bar you and massa are bored stiff of it. I hope when you look back on your life the time you have wasted reading massa’ excuses for being slower than alonso bring you some sort of absolution because they aren’t accomplishing anything else.

    • BasCB (@bascb) said on 10th October 2011, 7:52

      Nothing against Massa, here. But I really think he should be letting it go and focus on his own racing (just as Hamilton should focuss on his racing and learn from his mistakes).
      Massa is starting to sound like poor Trulli with his drawings and pictures in the notebook hounding Sutil a couple of years back to prove who was wrong.

    • John H (@john-h) said on 10th October 2011, 8:46

      Massa probably has a good point, but due to his current terrible driving himself this season, i.e. getting thrashed by Alonso, he needs to shut up because he sounds like a child asking a teacher to send someone for detention quite honestly

    • Mark (@marlarkey) said on 10th October 2011, 13:42

      Oh snap :) I made the same connection to Jacques Villeneuve. Hamilton is in severe danger of following his footsteps and ended his career as a one-time champion with a chip on his shoulder.

    • mcmclaren said on 10th October 2011, 21:04

      seriously now mate…

      lewis is flat out through a chicane nursing a slow punture…where should he be looking?

      a/ where he’s going
      b/ in his opposite mirror

      as stated by the FIA lewis was on the racing line which means massa took a lunge up the outside and is lucky he didn’t get penalised

      also…did you not watch the pre-quali show where coultard showed new angles of the koby incident….and who turned in on who?

      wrong! koby turned on lewis and coultard (not me) says kobys fault

      all drivers know the racing line and if they lunge up the outside and don’t pull it off they only have themselves to blame

      pitty massa’s gotta make a fool of himself and act like a cry baby

  6. The Last Pope (@the-last-pope) said on 10th October 2011, 0:28

    Watch out Felipe! The F1 door is going to hit you too.

    • F1andy83 said on 10th October 2011, 1:25

      +1

      • davidwhite (@davidwhite) said on 10th October 2011, 2:20

        Massa’s lasting legacy will be as a No.2 driver that gave way to his team mate whilst whinged and moaned during his decline. I felt sorry for him after his accident in Hungary. Now I can’t stand the guy – there’s nothing worse that someone blaming their failures on other people.

        Massa goes on about Hamilton not learning. I would actually flip it around and say that Massa doesn’t learn. In the eyes of Massa, if you go up against Hamilton you’re risking your car. Now i have a very different view but if you follow this thinking through then logic would tell you to give Hamilton a very wide berth when racing him. Putting your car on the outside of a corner with 2 wheels alongside Hamilton probably isn’t the smartest thing to do then if that’s what you believe….Maybe Massa should have “using his mind” as he would put it.

    • JCost (@jcost) said on 10th October 2011, 7:15

      I think Massa is not (anymore) WDC material…

  7. Maksutov (@maksutov) said on 10th October 2011, 0:29

    Massa is exaggerating that particular incident a bit I must say, but he is not wrong when he says “Hamilton doesn’t learn”, at least as far as collisions are concerned, which is certainly something that Lewis needs to work on for his own good. Stewards made the right decision not to give a penalty. But if Massa had been taken out or incurred some significant damage, then maybe penalty would have been warranted….

  8. electrolite (@electrolite) said on 10th October 2011, 0:42

    I agree with Mansell. I think Lewis has got an attitude problem at the minute. In any post race interview with Lewis regarding an incident – whether he was in the right or – he mutters quietly, shakes his head, blurts out vague answers, often ‘I didn’t know happened’ or ‘I suppose it happened again…’ orientated. I’d rather him speak up and speak clearly about issues and offer proper arguments, even. It’s better than sulking like a teenager.

    Massa is just as bad, in a different sense – but I appreciate articulating something he’s angry about isn’t exactly easy in your third language. Phrases like ‘he cannot use his mind’ seem strong but he probably means Hamilton needs to think before he acts, or something. Something he ought to stop is acting as the pupil who told teacher, FIA this, stewards that…

    I understand on a few occasions Hamilton has held his hands up and apologised. But apologising is one thing – doing something about it is another.

    • damonsmedley (@damonsmedley) said on 10th October 2011, 4:55

      I completely agree with everything you’ve said.

    • AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 10th October 2011, 8:05

      @Electrolite Well said. He does have a problem, but I don’t think that was apparent in Japan. I agree with the stewards findings on this occasion. As a general view though, on the majority of the season, he does need to sort it out. Now is the best time, don’t leave this hanging into 2012.

    • NDINYO (@ndinyo) said on 10th October 2011, 10:35

      @Electrolite sorry but i disagree – just because Lewis wants to be his own person does not mean he has an attitude problem. Mansell wants Lewis to be like him, and he has the power as a steward and is literally trying to force Lewis to be what Mansell wants. That is wrong. Anthony Hamilton has his own opionion. So does you Electrolite and about a million or so other people who love or hate but follow Lewis with a passion. He cannot be what all these people want him to be. First it is an impossibility and second, if he looses his identity he will no longer be the person that boils the blood of fans and detractors alike. Let Lewis learn his own lessons his own way – just because somebody is different from what you want him to be does not give him an attitude problem.

      • electrolite (@electrolite) said on 10th October 2011, 11:04

        @NDINYO I like Lewis. Don’t get me wrong. And I fully appreciate he is his own person as that is something special in a sport like this. He shouldn’t stop being his own person at all; but what I don’t agree with is the justification that, just because you’ve been told off for something before, it makes whenever you repeat that action okay, simply because it makes someone like Mansell or Massa seem repetitive when they complain. There can’t be separate rules for certain people.

        Mansell can’t expect people to do exactly what he expects off the track however and he perhaps needs to criticise Massa in these incidents for some equality.

      • bananarama (@bananarama) said on 10th October 2011, 11:18

        I hope Hamilton stays exactly the way he is. That way we’ll always have something to talk abour and occasionally he will show great performances. It’d be really boring if he was like Vettel, analysing his mistakes, thinking about how to improve that and trying not to make the mistake again. I don’t like either of them but I must admit Vettel is impressive in the way he goes about his work.

  9. Canuck said on 10th October 2011, 0:55

    Its obvious that Hamilton just has no respect for other drivers. If I’m Flipper (Massa) ……I would just take Hamilton, the bonehead, right out at the start of the race. Enough is enough ……if the stewards can fix him straight – seems like self justice is required here. At this stage of the season, no one really cares where Flipper will finish in the standings ……so why not take matters in your own hands – time to drop the hammer and teach Hamilton a lesson !!!

  10. STSCM (@stscm) said on 10th October 2011, 0:57

    Sorry, it makes me laugh when Hollywood Lou runs into his fellow number 2 Massa and the slings and arrows that sprout to Massa’s direction. Maybe Massa and others should pull off the road, get out of their cockpits and genuflect while the Second Coming of Senna motors past (hopefully far enough off the road so Hollywood doesn’t run into them). Maybe, but doubtful, that will satisfy everyone else. Meanwhile I find it interesting that the guy everyone denounces as being unworthy for Hollywood to tangle with is the prime target for Hollywood in so many races. Such a tangled web we weave.

  11. vho (@) said on 10th October 2011, 1:07

    Massa might have been quicker but he needs to understand that the “driverX is quicker than you…” method of overtaking only works within Ferrari and not with other teams.

  12. Tom Bisset (@pianoshizzle) said on 10th October 2011, 1:10

    In my opinion, Massa’s had his chance in Formula 1. He’s not the same driver he used to be ever since the incident at Hungary (mind you, I’ve never rated him highly). He is always very moany and whiney and doesn’t ever seem self motivated to do better- always a problem with the car, strategy, or Lewis. (Unfortunatly for Massa, Ferrari don’t have their controversial links with the FIA anymore.) Although, his biggest problem is that he, Ferrari and us F1Fanatics all know that Alonso is faster than him full stop. He is milking the Ferrari cow, taking the money and Ferrai knows that he will get out of Alonso’s way, which is a shame because there are plenty of motivated, ernest drivers on the grid who would surely take up that 2nd seat and produce better results than Massa.

    • Macca (@macca) said on 10th October 2011, 1:14

      I think Lewis deserved a penalty, it was the exact same move that he made on Kamui at Spa. If the mirrors on the McLaren dont produce downforce, they may as well take them of the car.

      • davidwhite (@davidwhite) said on 10th October 2011, 2:05

        Oh the hypocracy. You want to see driving that deserves a penalty – check out the start of last year’s race from our whining talentless no 2 driver Massa:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTgtYIAGE1E

        Oh and it’s funny how the only incident that was investigaed was one involving Hamilton…Did you SEE Webber drive into the back of Schumacher in the S’s???? That would have been a straight penalty for Hamilton but surprise surprise no investigation (i don’t think it was worthy of penalty mind you).

        Even when Hamilton is in front, he gets accused of being in the wrong. It was Hamilton at fault in Singapore – he was too late on the breaks and he was the man behind. Same should apply here in Suzuka for Massa – if you leave your car hanging on the outside of a braking zone you’re asking for trouble. I actually think it was Massa’s fault for positioning his car where he did.

        I can’t wait for Massa to get replaced personally – he’s really getting on my wick.

        • Colossal Squid (@colossal-squid) said on 10th October 2011, 3:04

          The Vettel/Button incident at the start got investigated too iirc. I’m not sure about the proceedures involved with making an investigation but I remember Martin Brundle saying that if a team requests an investigation into a particular incident then it will be looked at. So that’s not exactly a case of double standards against Lewis.

          • JCost (@jcost) said on 10th October 2011, 7:24

            David was talking about Webber hitting Schumacher 2/3 laps before SC deployment.

          • davidwhite (@davidwhite) said on 10th October 2011, 11:06

            I think it’s pretty obvious that if you’re name is Lewis Hamilton, you’re going to get investigated if you make contact with another car, and you’re likely to come off worse….

            I’ll never forget that race in Spa….There was only one winner.

            If you think about all of the scrapes and close calls you’ve seen in F1 over the past 4 years, and how many of those not involving Hamilton have not been investigated you get a pretty ugly picture. It doesn’t help at the moment that he’s clashing with a Ferrari – the Mafia in the guise of a red car.

            As for the moaning by the other drivers, I’m sorry but it’s a clear case of Tall Poppy Syndrome. I just hope he has thick enough skin to ignore the detractors and not lose heart with the sport.

        • TimG (@timg) said on 10th October 2011, 10:55

          The Webber/Schumacher incident was clearly Webber’s fault – the gap was always going to close and he wasn’t far enough alongside the Mercedes. However, the only damage done was to Webber’s front wing. If Schumacher had been spun off in the incident, or had sustained a puncture, then a penalty for Webber would have been justified.

        • cduk_mugello (@cduk_mugello) said on 10th October 2011, 12:54

          @davidwhite you’ve once again chosen to tackle something other than the ball. @Macca compared Hamilton’s latest incident with Ham/Kobayashi in Spa.

          In your reply you choose to cite anything but that comparison. Japan 2010, Massa, Schumacher, Webber, Singapore… it’s all irrelevant.

          Instead of going off at tangents, perhaps you should address his central argument directly. Afterall, it wasn’t the longest of posts.

      • Tifosi said on 10th October 2011, 3:29

        He got tagged by Schumi also at Canada on the way to the last corner.
        Same incident to Button on Hamilton.

        Massa just doesn’t respect Hamilton. He pushes & instigates all this
        nonsense. Both are losing their cool. Get it together you two.

  13. F1Yankee (@f1yankee) said on 10th October 2011, 1:30

    precedent had been set at the start, letting the drivers play a bit rough. on another day, it would be another penalty.

  14. uan (@uan) said on 10th October 2011, 1:40

    The interesting thing about Mansell’s comments is that they came before the race and another “I didn’t see him” comment from Lewis.

  15. wasiF1 (@wasif1) said on 10th October 2011, 2:14

    This time though it was a racing incident Hamilton needed to be more careful as he knew the spotlight was on him & Massa,but I don’ think for this incident Hamilton should get a penalty.

  16. Becken Lima (@becken-lima) said on 10th October 2011, 2:36

    I loved the way the guys from Planetf1 have described Massa’s frustration and his real state of mind:

    “…It can’t be easy being Felipe Massa right now. You outqualify your team-mate at the ultimate driver’s circuit. You get a good start, circulate with a small gap to the car in front, then your engineer comes on the radio after five laps and tells you to move over and let your team-mate through.

    After which he probably tells you to act as a blocker to Mark Webber (“block Webber, destroy Webber’s race, good lad”) so that he won’t get close to your precious team-mate who you’ve just gifted a place to.

    All around you on the grid, you can see team-mates who are allowed to race each other; Lewis can have a go at Jenson, Mark can have a go at Seb within reason; Nico and Michael can have little battles, too.

    But no, you’re the instrument of the team and you suspect that deep down, if Fernando ran out of front wings you’d be asked to stop so he could have yours…”

    LINK: http://www.planetf1.com/race-features/7232750/Suzuka-GP-Winners-Losers

    • Klaas (@klaas) said on 10th October 2011, 7:10

      Interest comments, but the guys on PlanetF1 seem to have selective memories and don’t remember that little confusion over the radio in Turkey “Is Jenson going to overtake me?” “No, Lewis, no”, even though Button was faster. It is at Casa de RedBull where they take the front wing from one driver and give it to his team-mate. And don’t forget Silverstone this year too when Mark was told NOT to have a go at Sebastian. All these “small incidents” are delicately ignored, while when it comes to Alonso passing Massa, people are standing with a magnifying glass shouting that the pass was made to easily. Yes, Massa is No 2 at Ferrari simply because he isn’t as good as their No 1. There were precedents at other teams too (including the fairest of all – McLaren) when a driver made way for his team-mate to pass but interestingly, nobody cared.

      • David BR (@david-br) said on 10th October 2011, 15:03

        re. Turkey 2010: just to clarify Klaas, given the high fuel consumption being experiened by all teams, the issue was the instruction to save fuel given to both drivers, Hamilton understood they were given a set lap time to match, Button – admitting ‘confusion’ after the race – thought they just had to go a bit slower, and caught Lewis. When Button went past, the fight between them both to regain position was genuine and indeed spectacularly good. After that, the issue was ‘settled’, i.e. they were told to hold position baically, since both had to finish the race after all! Can we leave that one to rest now?!

        • Klaas (@klaas) said on 10th October 2011, 17:11

          I can leave it a rest, I was simply responding to the person who can’t. It seems some media has an attitude problem as it barely makes a headline when their favourite team is involved in a controversy, but when Ferrari is, they distort facts, make statements based on their own assumptions without any proofs. This is becoming more similar to paranoia when everything Massa does they say it’s for Alonso to make up places.

    • Klaas (@klaas) said on 10th October 2011, 8:52

      By the way, read the comments on the article, you seem the only one who agrees with the deluded author of that joke of a column.

    • That would be great if it wasn’t from PlanetF1 and it actually had some evidence that Massa moved over for Alonso instead of idle speculation from a point in the race where Massa was seriously struggling with his rear tyres irrc.

  17. I’d like to know when people have been “penalized for less.” In this race alone people were not penalized for considerably more. Massa is so boring now. His deranged mutterings are not distracting from his terrible performance in the car.

    FA is probably going to eat those words. If Newey makes another alien spaceship, no one is going to stop Vettel next year either. And after 7 or 8 races, we will again have to be content with speculating about why Hamilton chose his agents or why he is with an evil succubus girlfriend, and Massa’s insane pleadings like a panhandler on the subway.

  18. David-A (@david-a) said on 10th October 2011, 4:31

    Ignoring Massa’s comments, I’d say that this was a relatively trouble, incident free race weekend for him, which is what he needed. But that’s why it’s so worrying. He was still convincingly beaten by Fernando, both Red Bulls, both Mclarens as usual, and even Michael Schumacher in the Mercedes. Is this supposed to be the best he can do?

    On another note, Alonso saying “we will see who is the youngest three time world champion” is a legend response, game on 2012 :)

    • David BR (@david-br) said on 10th October 2011, 15:11

      That’s why despite all his ‘shenanigans’ I can’t help but like Alonso. His face seeing Vettel immediately after the race said it all: already planning how he’s going to beat Vettel to number 3! If McLaren can’t deliver, I really hope Ferrari can next year and we see an actual title battle.

  19. Girts (@girts) said on 10th October 2011, 7:04

    It’s interesting to watch the clashes between Hamilton and Massa both on and off track. At the moment, there are a lot of similarities between the two – both have been fighting for world championships before and both are now left in the shadows of their team mates. Their weakened form combined with the fact that Ferrari and McLaren are not far from each other in terms of pace ensures that Hamilton and Massa meet each other on the track much more often than they would like to. And the frustration leads to unwillingness to accept that “Lewis / Felipe is faster than you”.

    Talking about Hamilton, we cannot know what’s going on inside his head these days although it’s clear that he’s extremely frustrated with the current situation. But I wouldn’t be quick to tell him what he should do. If there was an easy solution to his problems, he would have found it by now but obviously there isn’t. Hamilton cannot simply change his driving style or his approach to racing in one day and he cannot suddenly become another person, too.

    • Adam Tate (@adam-tate) said on 10th October 2011, 7:43

      Great comment Girts.

    • Forotherruns said on 10th October 2011, 7:52

      Good response.

      I think Lewis Hamilton’s season can be summarised in just one word: PIRELLI

      His style just doesn’t work in this era of tyre preservation. In the Bridgestone days, his all out attack mode won him the championship. If he tries to drive to preserve tyres, he just isnt fast enough because that is not his style. This has brought about frustration and it reflects in his driving style. If you look at the early races where the tyres were harder compounds, he was performing much better than now.

      • davidwhite (@davidwhite) said on 10th October 2011, 11:36

        Spot on. These new tyres just don’t play to his strengths ie an all out racer. To be successful these days, you’re better off being slower in terms of real pace but gentle on the tyres – which is quite a neat description of Jenson Button!

    • bingi said on 10th October 2011, 9:06

      Massa is in a fragile, frustrated state of mind. The last time he won an F1 race was in 2008, which was also his best season – and look who beat him to the championship by a single point, and in Brazil to boot – bad, bad Lewis. Massa and Lewis have been involved in a few altercations this season – and Massa generally comes off the worse, even when both have to pit after their on-track embraces. In Suzuka, it hurt even more because, after their coming together and both having to pit, Lewis comes out and easily overtakes Massa, who must have been VERY sorely tempted to pull a Vettel-start-like move on the Englishman.
      But Massa is not really mad at Hamilton – no, no, no. He is mad at himself and his team, and his teammate. He hates Ferrari for making him Alonso’s b!tch: when Alonso wants to overtake him, Massa gets pulled over. He hates his team but he knows no other team will sign him 0 and hence is boxed into a tight red corner. He hates Alonso because the sulking Spaniard is a multiple world champion and has the whole of Ferrari at his beck and call, while he – Massa – has to sit there and play second fiddle – and even that only because Schumacher chose to go to Mercedes. In a way, Massa is just like his countryman, Baricchelo, but minus the wins and the skill (such as it is).
      This is why Lewis and everyone else – Alonso included – treat Massa with such derision: how can a Formula 1 driver let himself be turned into little more than a glorified water-boy for his team?
      These are the demons that are eating Massa up. This season, he has discovered that the Stewards don’t really mind when one has a go at Lewis, so he is trying to make that hay while that sun shines. He better: given the body language of Lewis at the moment at McLaren, the Englishman might be getting a move on – perhaps even breaking his contract or buying it out to go somewhere more interesting. One of those places, if Webber moves on and Alonso goes to Red Bull, would be Ferrari. And then, lordy, if Massa was still there, he would be Lewis’ b!tch. Wouldnt we love to see that…!

    • kenneth Ntulume said on 10th October 2011, 11:53

      Its very very very interesting, how people are so eager to assert that Button has left Hamilton in the shadows, its as if a deep rooted wish which appeared unlikely is now here, sorry folks Lewis is still a better driver. U dont get it Lewis doesn’t compete for nos 2 in the Championship nor a lesser goal of only beating your teammate, to Lewis not being champion is real bad, beating your team mate whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!JB can compete there

      • Hewis Lamilton said on 10th October 2011, 22:25

        Well said. Let Lewis enjoy his one WDC. Maybe he and Villeneuve can get together and compare their trophy. And Jensen could join in with his.

      • David-A (@david-a) said on 11th October 2011, 1:57

        So according to you, LH wants to be champion, but can’t be bothered to beat his teammate.

        Tell me how you thought “F1 Fanatic” is an synonym for “comedy club”?

  20. Adam Tate (@adam-tate) said on 10th October 2011, 7:40

    Whew, I’ve never seen so much hating on either Massa or Hamilton in the comments in a long time.

    Perhaps now that Vettel has won the title they will both calm down, not having to support Button and Alonso as much.

    I think both guys just need the off season to get here so they can take a break, take stock of their lives and R-E-L-A-X. And their fans, the media, etc. need to do the same.

    It is true that neither of them is living up to expectations this season, but to denounce them completely, call for them to be out of F1, or call them out of luck/past their prime/untalented is unfounded.

    Between the two of them they have 27 wins, 73 podiums, 33 poles, and 25 fastest laps.

    The reason for all this hullabaloo stems from their title fight in 2008 and the fact that they’ve come together no less than 4 times this season.

    I fully expect both McLaren and Ferrari to be closer to RedBull at the start of next season, with better cars under their belts I expect both of them to bounce back and give us what they used to provide; entertaining racing.

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