Felipe Massa, Lewis Hamilton, Singapore, 2011

Felipe Massa: “Hamilton doesn’t learn”

F1 Fanatic round-upPosted on | Author Cari Jones

In today?s round-up: Felipe Massa thinks the FIA should get tough on Lewis Hamilton following another incident between the pair at the Japanese Grand Prix.


Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Massa asks FIA to get tough with Hamilton after Japanese Grand Prix clash (Autosport)

“They have penalised people for much less this year and this time they didn’t do it. It’s the second time in a row after the problem in qualifying as well in the last race, and after what happened yesterday. And after many times this year. The FIA needs to take care of that. They are the only ones who can take care of that.”

Red Bull Racing’s videos (Facebook)

Sebastian Vettel?s video message to his fans.

Japanese Grand Prix from the pit lane with Ted Kravitz (BBC F1)

??BBC F1 pit-lane reporter Ted Kravitz with the behind-the-scenes gossip in the aftermath of the Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka.

Murray Walker’s verdict on Sebastian Vettel (BBC F1)

??Formula 1 commentary legend Murray Walker gives his assessment of Sebastian Vettel and what the 2010 and 2011 world champion can go on to achieve in the sport.??

FIA post-race press conference (Formula1.com)

??Fernando [Alonso], now [Sebastian Vettel] is the youngest two time World Champion; you?ve lost that title. What does it mean to you now?

??FA: Really nothing special. I think now we will see who is the youngest three time World Champion.??

I am living the life of a F1 driver: Karthikeyan (Hindustan Times)

Video interview with Narain Karthikeyan ahead of the Indian Grand Prix.

Formula 1, rally and motorcycle stars lined up for kart event in Spain (Autosport)

??Barcelona’s Olympic Palau Sant Jordi will host an inaugural, all-star, indoor karting event on December 18. Six current Formula 1 drivers will compete against top competitors from MotoGP and the World Rally Championship.??

As Hamilton fluffs his lines again, Mansell chides: Lewis has an attitude problem (Daily Mail)

??Lewis has to work on an attitude problem,’ said Mansell, a winner of 31 grands prix. He needs to get his head in a better place. You have to manage your car better than Lewis has done on too many occasions this season. Too many times he has positioned his car where he has caused an incident.??

Jo??o Paulo Oliveira via Twitter

??Back in 05 Macau F3 GP I was really annoyed by a certain rookie driver who knocked me out of a podium. Now that guy is 2x F1 world champion.??

The time Scuderia Ferrari told me off (Doctorvee)

??Early on during this morning?s Japanese Grand Prix, Fernando Alonso overtook Felipe Massa. Massa didn?t make it difficult for Alonso ? not that you would expect him to. I have to admit to doing a little victory dance in my chair at having riled Ferrari enough to provoke them to reply.??

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Comment of the day

Have you rated the race? Steph says:

I don?t want to put a downer on Seb because I love him and I?ve just watched the forum and I?m positively delighted for him but I thought he was a bit crazy at the start. He developed a nasty habit last year of chopping people at the start and trying to scare them out of the way (Germany for example) and I thought he had grown out of it but it wasn?t nice to see it make a comeback today. He?s been so, so close to perfection all year and fully deserves this title but that really annoyed me at the start.

JB?s win was my favourite ever of his. He was very calm after the start and got his revenge in great style. I?ve said before that I wanted to see him win in dry conditions and showcase his speed and that?s exactly what he did. I may be a Ferrari fan and he?s a in a Mclaren but I really enjoyed watching him.

I?m delighted for Alonso. He?s my driver of the day (JB for the weekend). The way he managed his race and set the car up was just so smart. It?s like he came out of nowhere, steadily climbed up while others made mistakes and somehow managed to push JB a bit too in that awful car.

Congrats to all three podium occupants today. JB deserved his win, Alonso deserved 2nd place and Vettel more than deserved his title. It was beautiful to watch the celebrations and he fans were still there cheering! The Japanese fans are just diamonds.

I was a bit surprised to see Mark wasn?t with the Red Bull team celebrating which is bad form and bad PR.

From the forum

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Happy birthday!

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On this day in F1

James Hunt won the United States Grand Prix East 35 years ago today, setting up a championship showdown at the final race in Japan.

Niki Lauda finished third behind Jody Scheckter, keeping a three-point lead over Hunt heading into the last race.

Here are some highlights from the race:

169 comments on “Felipe Massa: “Hamilton doesn’t learn””

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  1. Very nice COTD @Steph!

  2. Although he uses it to make another point, Felipe Has one thing right: there still are inconsistencies between steward decisions.
    I’d rather use that to express my thoughts: there have been occasions when penalties were given too easily.
    I was relieved yesterday when Hamilton didn’t get punished for à racing incident.

    But still à matter for Todt to fix.

  3. I don’t like it when people use this as a chance to have a go at Massa by calling him untalented, or undeserving, or whatever. This isn’t really about Massa’s raw speed, it’s about Massa believing that Hamilton needs to calm down behind the steering wheel.

    I recently read that Hamilton doesn’t think that he is doing anything wrong behind the wheel. By not identifying the first step to fixing his problem, I can’t see an end to his numerous collisions at the moment. Button has shown that if you push the McLaren to its limit, you can win in it. Hopefully Hamilton will get his act together soon and start showing just how good he really is.

    1. Excellent point. I couldn’t agree more with everything you just said.

    2. @slr If Massa believes Hamilton needs to learn from his driving errors, why does he keep leaving his car in the way of harm? Surely if Lewis is such a liability, then you give him a wide berth and pass him when you’ve got everything locked in. You don’t sit halfway on the racing line, behind another driver, and hope the other car melts out of your way.

      1. Massa constantly putting his car in the wrong place debatable, in Monaco and Singapore he did absolutely nothing wrong. In Japan he clearly didn’t expect Hamilton to turn left into him, I don’t think it was unreasonable of Massa to not expect such a thing. If Hamilton can’t see anything from his mirrors, then that’s something Hamilton and McLaren need to sort out.

        1. @slr The stewards were very specific about that:

          Lewis did not turn into Massa. He followed the exact same (racing) line that he did on the previous lap.

          I don’t think it was unreasonable of Massa to not expect such a thing.

          There was no reason for Massa to believe that just because he had left half of his car sitting around, Lewis was going to change his line, especially if Massa really believes that Lewis is a dangerous liablility. In fact, given his comments, he should have expected, very precisely, that Lewis would crash into him.

          Either way, Massa’s visor wasn’t blocked at the time so he could have backed out of the move whenever he wanted to (Like Button did). He didn’t.

  4. Hamilton’s issues aside, these comments from Massa do strike as having a certain amount of gamesmanship behind them.

  5. Why no mention that Robert Wickens won the World Series by Renault 3.5 Championship? And in a pretty crazy way too.

    I know some here think GP2 is the pinnacle of of the lower formula, but WSR 3.5 is where Vettel and Kubica came from, so not sure why it is so ignored.

  6. I’m disappointed with Hamilton, to be honest. Right now, he’s showing that he is not the driver I thought he would be, a true great like Ayrton and the other true “Racers Champions” of motorsport history. Button has completely outclassed him inside and outside the racing track over here. In a true Driver’s circuit, Button proved to be a true F1 Champion. I don’t particularly like “Prost-ish” drivers like Button, but here he trully deserves to be second in the World Championship. Lewis is a shadow of his former self. I hope he takes some time to think and recover his joy and passion for racing. Right now, he seems completely lost and looks like an average driver. Right now my attention is on Kamui Kobayashi: yes, he had a terrible start but he did the overtaking move of the day, in my opinion. Really, he deserves to be racing in a better car. The romantic in me is alsso really disappointed with Bruno. Not a “Senna” like performance at all. Petrov really outclassed him here.

    Found interesting that tweet from João Paulo Oliveira. i remember that race. Vettel came out of nowhere and got 3rd place. Back then, he looked like a kid! Was he, what, 16, 17? Very impressive. That race was won by… Lucas Di Grassi, after an almost last lap overtaking to no other than Robert Kubica, who was Furious at the end of the race. He dominated it but was overtaken at the penultimate lap (if I’m not mistaken) after a safety car period… That is the Macau GP for you!

    1. Putting aside all the Massa nonsense, have to agree with you in being disappointed with Hamilton. Some of the passion seems to have gone. There may be a lot of reasons for that but there’s no way he’ll get close to Senna’s achievements or even Vettel and Alonso if he doesn’t refocus. He needs that extremely difficult mixture of a touch less arrogance and more real confidence (rather than simple bravado) that comes with maturity. At the moment he just seems fairly lost.

  7. It’s almost like Massa likes to have an excuse to have a moan at Lewis.. It is probably why he positioned his car somewhere where he could instigate another contact. This way he can crush Lewis spirit like his own has been crushed!

  8. I didn’t think there was anything wrong with Vettel’s start. If JB wanted to have a go he should have cur across to the racing line and Seb wouldn’t have been able to chop him again, instead he insisted on a drag race. He never got any further than Vettel’s back wheels so there’s nothing dodgy about what he did in my view.

  9. Thanks very much Cari! :)

    I don’t get all the criticism of Massa. The same guy keeps hitting into him so of course he’s going to be annoyed. Let’s face it, Hamilton hasn’t been on his best form at the moment but the worst part of it is every incident involves another driver. They’ve not all been his fault but by now, I’m surprised Felipe is actually staying so calm as I’d have completely lost the plot. He was pumped up after Singapore and lost his temper in front of the cameras after Lewis ignored him which was unprofessional and I’m not saying it’s right but we get that all the time like when Seb did his crazy sign, Sutil and Trulli almost ended up in a punch up, Hamilton having a rant at Monaco. I take all of that with a pinch of salt because they’ve just been racing at intense speeds. After the race Massa came out and said he didn’t want a GDPA meeting about Hamilton’s driving but now he is after yet another incident. I don’t agree with him as I think Hamilton needs a talk with Mclaren more than anything especially as they had a breakdown in communication during qualifying and possibly the race if Hamilton wasn’t warned Massa was coming but he’s entitled to his opinion and it’s not like it’s unfounded.

    1. Well the good news is you won’t have to put up with all the anti-Massa sentiment for too much longer. Just four more races and we won’t hear any more about Massa.

    2. @steph Sure Felipe has some grounds to be annoyed that he keeps getting hit. But instead of just lashing out at another driver, he’s failing to ask himself a number of questions.

      1) Why is it that Lewis was able to deal with the front wing change, have a drive through, and still easily recover his race in Singapore, passing Massa on the way? Differences in car speed don’t account for it, because as usual Alonso was way up the field. Why does a bit of contact or damage utterly ruin Massa’s race, and leave him unable to recover, where other drivers are able to not only race on, but do well? He seems to break down and give up. Look at Button in Canada, or in Hungary, where he had significant rear wing damage.

      2) Why isn’t he being more careful around this “rogue” driver he’s complaining about? In Suzuka, he parked on the outside of the racing line, and was behind Lewis. He could see Lewis following the racing line into the corner. He didn’t have the speed to make a pass, but he didn’t back out of it or take evasive action. He just sat there. In the same situation, Button backed out, and made his move later, avoiding stupid contact and winning the race. Lewis has an argument “I can’t see out of these mirrors”, which you can believe or not. Massa doesn’t have any excuse that he couldn’t see, or avoid, what was obviously coming. All he had to do was say “This move isn’t going to work” and either move left, or back out and take the undercut. A better driver (Button or Alonso) would have done so. He did neither.

      3) Why does his engineer have to spend half the race telling him how to drive the car? We’re not talking about technical information, or recommendations about engine/diff settings, or the results of analysis from the strategy guys. We’re talking about “you need to brake later” and other mindboggling stuff.

      Lewis is making a number of stupid, avoidable errors this year. Massa, however, has fundamental flaws in both his driving and his mental state that he needs to address before he starts blaming everyone else for why he’s not doing well. 90% of Massa’s problems are his own. Lewis is around and about, but he’s not responsible for everything, much though Massa might want to think he is.

      1. Great post. I think Massa can be capable of good drives but he’s a real confidence driver and is very very unsure of himself at the moment. He’s been psyched out by Alonso and his confidence is v low. Think back to when Alonso passed Massa on the entry to the pits last year. If ever there was a statement of intent that was it. He’s never recovered since.

      2. @Hairs Massa’s speed or lack thereof isn’t the issue. It’s about the coming together between Massa and Hamilton. Massa hasn’t blamed Lewis for him not being as quick as Alonso, he hasn’t said Lewis has ruined his season, he’s just said that Lewis has crashed into him on a couple of occasions and it’s hurt his race which is accurate. If you want to debate Massa’s season I happily will at any time with you Hairs as you know I enjoy doing but I don’t see how it’s relevant to what Massa is saying here. We’re going to keep debating until the end of time, aren’t we? :P

        1. @steph The reason I bring Massa’s racing as a whole into is for two reasons:

          1) I don’t believe that Massa is 100% blameless in all these encounters, the one in Suzuka being the most obvious case of “No, you’re in the wrong there, Felipe.” That is not an attempt to absolve Lewis of his errors, it’s just a fact. Lewis has been stupid many many times this season. Other times he has just been unlucky. Other times, Massa has had at least 50% of the blame for the crash.

          2) This public lashing out at Lewis isn’t coming from nowhere. Other drivers have crashed into him, and he’s crashed into other drivers. Why isn’t he lashing out at them? I think that Massa has a number of other frustrations and problems – but this is the only one he can publicly talk about, or actually do anything about, and I think it’s no coincidence that the man he’s lashing out at is the man who pipped him to his one and only shot at glory in 2008. (Even if we disagree about his ability, it is a simple fact that as long as Alonso is in Ferrari, Massa will never be allowed to win a race, much less a championship. It’s also a fact that there are no other top-ranked teams that are going to take him on, when the likes of Hulkenberg are looking for a seat.) That’s sad, but it means that he’s going well overboard with his comments.

  10. I’m tired of Massa whining on the media about Lewis and about that accident it’s Massa`s fault. He couldn`t overtake there and he perfectly knew that noone looks at the mirrors in that particular point of the track.


      1. Spot on video. Whinge, moan, poke and shove people. Massa has no class IMO. If you poked Alonso or Hamilton like that in the pub little Massa would be staring at the ceiling. Easy to do it when you know you’re not going to get a reaction. Pathetic.

  11. Lets just get rid of penalties altogether, its a mans sport with racing incidents. Fine the drivers or something else. Watching grown up men whining ‘he should get a penalty’ is getting on my nerves quite frankly.

    1. @taurus So you want drivers ramming each other off the track without being punished? I’m afraid this isn’t a remotely realistic idea.

      1. Like I say, fine them. If it is clearly a blatant ramming, ie Schumacher in Jerez ’97, hand out one-race bans or disqualifications.

        A bit of contact is part of motorsport in my opinion, eg Dijon ’79. That quite rightly gets lauded as brilliant racing.

        1. News just in… Gilles Villeneuve handed 25-second post race penalty by the FIA after taking 32 years to review the footage. He has been demoted to 4th place a spokesman today confirmed.

          Renault driver René Arnoux was handed second place and is said to be “ecstatic” that justice has finally been served describing Villeneuve’s driving as “mindless” and going on to comment that the former Ferrari ace “just doesn’t learn”.

          Alan Jones is now classified 3rd and is said to be “decidedly nonplussed” with the podium result.

      2. I don’t think that drivers would crash into each other all the time if there were no penalties for doing that. There were times when there were no TV cameras that could have spotted every possible incident, yet drivers didn’t act so irresponsibly. Because they obviously 1) feared revenge 2) knew that they could crash themselves and get hurt or even worse.

        I don’t think we should get rid of penalties completely but reducing the number of them would only encourage more exciting racing.

  12. I really don’t see the relevance of having Massa’s form or speed brought into discussion.. This sort of incident is something Hamilton can easily avoid if he would just think a bit outside his 1.8m-wide McLaren and not put other drivers at risk, because this sort of collision in the braking zone for corners can be very dangerous, as it was with Diniz and Alesi in the 2000 German GP. And they weren’t exactly at the pointy end of the field, were they

  13. Massa should rethink why he’s in the sport again. I remember him saying that he would not race if he would be the #2 driver. Why is he still racing?

    With regards to Hamilton’s aggressive driving; yes he does drive quite aggressively, which doesn’t mean isn’t capable of preserving his tires. If I remember correctly, Hamilton preserved the tires much better last year than Button. So it’s not only the style, it’s also the set up, actually, it’s mainly the set up of the car.

    But again, let’s wait and see how the last four races unfold and draw our conclusions. While Button definitely has lifted his game I still believe that Hamilton is the faster (read: better driver).

  14. In my opinion the stewards were right regarding Hamilton and Massa, it was just a racing incident.

    Honestly what did Massa expect trying to go down the outside at the chicane like he did, it was always likely to end in contact with Hamilton, has Massa not learned from the events from the last few races. The only way Massa was going to get by Hamilton there would have been to cut the chicane and go off the circuit.

    If I didn’t know better I would have said Massa deliberately put his car there thinking that with everything Hamilton has done this season Hamilton would get out of the way rather than risk another coming together especially with Massa.

    Massa also makes reference to what happened in qualifying in Suzuka with Hamilton indicating that Hamilton was at fault again. At Singapore Massa criticised Hamilton for not waiting and making a gap and instead overtaking Massa in qualifying, yet at Suzuka Hamilton did wait and make a gap to the car in front of him and this caused Webber and Schumacher to both overtake Hamilton.

    It would be interesting to know what has been said in the driver briefings with regards to Hamilton and Massa, because it was reported that even after all the media attention on Schumacher’s moves at Monza nothing was said at the next driver meeting.

    When Alonso easily got by Massa early on, in the commentary Brundle and Coulthard wondered if Massa had let Alonso by again, and said that if Ferrari kept ordering him to do it will break Massa.

    Did any reporter attempt to ask Massa if he had let Alonso by or with everything else that happened did it get forgotten about?

    1. +1, Massa never learn how to keep a distance and back off …Uppsss, Lewis car always magnetized me !!

  15. Regarding the COTD from Steph, I think part of the reason Vettel made that move at the start was because Alonso squeezed him onto the grass back at Monza and no action was taken. Personally I think that both incidents were firm but fair.

    When Button and Vettel were talking before they went on the podium Button said something like “so that’s how we’re racing now is it” which said to me that if the positions are reversed in the future Button will shut the door on Vettel in the same way because a) Vettel thinks it is accepatable b) the stewards took no action.

    The same could be said of Schumacher’s moves on Hamilton at Monza. Hamilton and others may start to think those moves are now acceptable as Schumacher did not even receive a post race reprimand despite the driver steward Derek Daly saying later that he would have given Schumacher a penalty if he had seen the moves live.

  16. I had a lot of respect for Massa but He goes just a
    fraction along side a car following the raceing line and clips the back every one knows how bad the mirrors are and what chance does the driver stand ? non you can’t say it was on perpose unless you belive Massa is really trying to ruin Hamilton races the only one to benifit is Alonso can’t think why

  17. What was wrong with the grass?

    Vettel knowingly pushed Button (see onboards of his head movement), and Button took to the grass. Whether that was right or wrong, the stewards said play on. Massa could have done the same – he didn’t, they hit. Note Hamilton’s head movement – looking at the apex for the next turn in.

    Massa was coming from behind in a half-baked move on Hamilton. How many times have people been on this blog blaming Hamilton for crashes with the line “he was coming from behind, it’s his responsibility”? I suppose now its 100% his responsibility to know exactly what’s happening behind him, and Massa was just the innocent victim?

    While I don’t think Hamilton is totally blameless, I do think Massa needs to carry the lions share this time – and that a racing incident is probably the right call. Even though I suspect if the cars were reversed, Hamilton would have been penalised.

    Why did Massa try such a move anyway? He was never going to make that move stick. Why try something like that against someone you believe has it in for you at every event? Massa needs to worry about his own racing – but maybe that’s the issue. Let’s face it, Ferrari probably won’t be keeping him long giving his performances against his team mate.

    If you look at the different stewarding calls over the last few years, you have to admit other drivers get away with things Hamilton cannot dream of. I wouldn’t mind if they want to be harsh (although please, not too harsh – let’s not ruin the racing) but, they really needs to resolving stewarding consistency.

    And another thing, why are the arm-chair experts so quick to dismiss the “I didn’t see him in my mirrors” statement? I’ve driven a single seater – now I’m no racing driver and that car was nothing like an F1 car – but at 150mph+ when things start to vibrate, it does become pretty difficult see anything in tiny mirrors, even a “red blob”!

    Rant over ;)

  18. You may as well turn Formula 1 into one lifesized Scalextric track.

    With the way in which some people moan about moves and incidents…you’d think that they want Formula 1 to become a real-life scalextric event with cars following each other around.

    I guess they would also prefer that when any car goes off track….the race can be paused and a giant version of bernie’s hand comes over to pick up the cars and place them back on their tracks.

    The days of raw close quarter racing, wheel-banging and the tests of sheer bravery which set driver skill apart is now long gone.

    -Formula 1 has been ruined and it will only get worse.

  19. I was surprised Hamilton did not get a penalty for the Massa incident, and I cannot blame Felipe for being upset. Lewis appears like a man who cannot wait for this season to end, it has been a stinker in more ways than one, and is not getting any better.
    I buy into the theory that it is a mental thing with Lewis. When everything is going his way he looks everybit the superstar driver the majority say he is. He’s exciting when he is on top of his game, he takes risks and passes where others do not, and does it with style. There has always been an arrogance in his driving, a do or die move over or we a going to crash mentality that few drivers possess. However, that is great when it works!
    At the moment he reminds me of Kimi Raikkonen in 2008. Every grands prix you a waiting to see the flash of the old genius you know is there but fails to show itself. In that ofcourse, I am not saying Raikkonen was crashing into everybody three years ago, but he was certainly at best mediocre and not himself.
    Hamilton has not figured in the 2011 world championship for awhile now, yet his team mate has. It must hurt him to see Vettel win back to back titles at such a young age, to become the youngest ever double champion, a feat Lewis obviously thought he would have accomplished by now. Its all a far cry from 2007/2008 when he had the world by the balls and the full might of the McLaren team behind him, safe in the knowledge that he was their ‘star’ driver.
    He needs to spend this winter ponduring his future and how to get back to winning ways. He needs to focus on one thing first for 2012, and that is beating Jenson Button. He has to forget the other drivers for awhile, and remind McLaren and the world of the Lewis we expect to see and want to see. Once he has done this, then he can go after the others and think about championships again.
    Massa is quite right about one thing, Hamilton is not learning from his mistakes. And it is not Massa who is hurting through these errors, but Lewis himself. If he learns, he can be that eye catching driver he was. If not, how long will it be before McLaren lose patience with him?

    1. I think to be fair to Lewis…he is not being allowed to move on and learn as the media dont allow him to get over it by constantly dragging up old news in his face.
      In japan he shouldve been allowed to focus on the GP but he was being swamped with reminders of the previous race 2 weeks before even though he wisely stayed away from commenting on it since Singapore.

      Yes Lewis needs to learn just like every driver before him inc all the greats. He is still only in his 5th season and will learn….but the media have been quite unfair on him as they love having a villain to keep beating up all the time.

      I believe that the harsher the lessons..the stronger you become. I think that the only time Lewis will get some peace and the time to toughen up will be once the season is over..not before as the media will continue to jump on his back before then and continue stirring up.

      1. the media dont allow him to get over it by constantly dragging up old news in his face.

        This is just lazy media-bashing.

        Hamilton stalked out of Singapore refusing to talk about his last silly prang. It’s hardly a surprise he would face questions about it at the next opportunity the F1 media had to put them to him, which of course was in Japan.

        He has no-one to blame but himself on this count.

        1. So Keith, is this the reason why you seem to bash Hamilton?

          More than often you’ve claimed to state facts and although you won’t admit and you don’t have to since it’s a blog. Maybe Hamilton doesn’t want to be dragged into a media-war with other drivers about incidents of last races and just move on.

          Despite stated above, I still enjoy read your articles and comments posted on the blog :-)

          1. @am I haven’t got anything against Hamilton and I’ve no idea what you’re referring to when you say “you seem to bash Hamilton”. Perhaps you could supply some examples.

  20. I was a bit surprised to see Mark wasn’t with the Red Bull team celebrating which is bad form and bad PR.

    Team mates are never there for the celebrations, unless they also got a podium to celebrate. I’ve noted this in all teams except maybe Mclaren (because both men are british I guess, and it works somehow).

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