Felipe Massa: “Hamilton doesn’t learn”

F1 Fanatic round-up

In today?s round-up: Felipe Massa thinks the FIA should get tough on Lewis Hamilton following another incident between the pair at the Japanese Grand Prix.

Links

Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Massa asks FIA to get tough with Hamilton after Japanese Grand Prix clash (Autosport)

“They have penalised people for much less this year and this time they didn’t do it. It’s the second time in a row after the problem in qualifying as well in the last race, and after what happened yesterday. And after many times this year. The FIA needs to take care of that. They are the only ones who can take care of that.”

Red Bull Racing’s videos (Facebook)

Sebastian Vettel?s video message to his fans.

Japanese Grand Prix from the pit lane with Ted Kravitz (BBC F1)

??BBC F1 pit-lane reporter Ted Kravitz with the behind-the-scenes gossip in the aftermath of the Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka.

Murray Walker’s verdict on Sebastian Vettel (BBC F1)

??Formula 1 commentary legend Murray Walker gives his assessment of Sebastian Vettel and what the 2010 and 2011 world champion can go on to achieve in the sport.??

FIA post-race press conference (Formula1.com)

??Fernando [Alonso], now [Sebastian Vettel] is the youngest two time World Champion; you?ve lost that title. What does it mean to you now?

??FA: Really nothing special. I think now we will see who is the youngest three time World Champion.??

I am living the life of a F1 driver: Karthikeyan (Hindustan Times)

Video interview with Narain Karthikeyan ahead of the Indian Grand Prix.

Formula 1, rally and motorcycle stars lined up for kart event in Spain (Autosport)

??Barcelona’s Olympic Palau Sant Jordi will host an inaugural, all-star, indoor karting event on December 18. Six current Formula 1 drivers will compete against top competitors from MotoGP and the World Rally Championship.??

As Hamilton fluffs his lines again, Mansell chides: Lewis has an attitude problem (Daily Mail)

??Lewis has to work on an attitude problem,’ said Mansell, a winner of 31 grands prix. He needs to get his head in a better place. You have to manage your car better than Lewis has done on too many occasions this season. Too many times he has positioned his car where he has caused an incident.??

Jo??o Paulo Oliveira via Twitter

??Back in 05 Macau F3 GP I was really annoyed by a certain rookie driver who knocked me out of a podium. Now that guy is 2x F1 world champion.??

The time Scuderia Ferrari told me off (Doctorvee)

??Early on during this morning?s Japanese Grand Prix, Fernando Alonso overtook Felipe Massa. Massa didn?t make it difficult for Alonso ? not that you would expect him to. I have to admit to doing a little victory dance in my chair at having riled Ferrari enough to provoke them to reply.??

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Comment of the day

Have you rated the race? Steph says:

I don?t want to put a downer on Seb because I love him and I?ve just watched the forum and I?m positively delighted for him but I thought he was a bit crazy at the start. He developed a nasty habit last year of chopping people at the start and trying to scare them out of the way (Germany for example) and I thought he had grown out of it but it wasn?t nice to see it make a comeback today. He?s been so, so close to perfection all year and fully deserves this title but that really annoyed me at the start.

JB?s win was my favourite ever of his. He was very calm after the start and got his revenge in great style. I?ve said before that I wanted to see him win in dry conditions and showcase his speed and that?s exactly what he did. I may be a Ferrari fan and he?s a in a Mclaren but I really enjoyed watching him.

I?m delighted for Alonso. He?s my driver of the day (JB for the weekend). The way he managed his race and set the car up was just so smart. It?s like he came out of nowhere, steadily climbed up while others made mistakes and somehow managed to push JB a bit too in that awful car.

Congrats to all three podium occupants today. JB deserved his win, Alonso deserved 2nd place and Vettel more than deserved his title. It was beautiful to watch the celebrations and he fans were still there cheering! The Japanese fans are just diamonds.

I was a bit surprised to see Mark wasn?t with the Red Bull team celebrating which is bad form and bad PR.
Steph

From the forum

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Happy birthday!

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On this day in F1

James Hunt won the United States Grand Prix East 35 years ago today, setting up a championship showdown at the final race in Japan.

Niki Lauda finished third behind Jody Scheckter, keeping a three-point lead over Hunt heading into the last race.

Here are some highlights from the race:

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169 comments on Felipe Massa: “Hamilton doesn’t learn”

  1. Becken Lima (@becken-lima) said on 10th October 2011, 2:36

    I loved the way the guys from Planetf1 have described Massa’s frustration and his real state of mind:

    “…It can’t be easy being Felipe Massa right now. You outqualify your team-mate at the ultimate driver’s circuit. You get a good start, circulate with a small gap to the car in front, then your engineer comes on the radio after five laps and tells you to move over and let your team-mate through.

    After which he probably tells you to act as a blocker to Mark Webber (“block Webber, destroy Webber’s race, good lad”) so that he won’t get close to your precious team-mate who you’ve just gifted a place to.

    All around you on the grid, you can see team-mates who are allowed to race each other; Lewis can have a go at Jenson, Mark can have a go at Seb within reason; Nico and Michael can have little battles, too.

    But no, you’re the instrument of the team and you suspect that deep down, if Fernando ran out of front wings you’d be asked to stop so he could have yours…”

    LINK: http://www.planetf1.com/race-features/7232750/Suzuka-GP-Winners-Losers

    • Klaas (@klaas) said on 10th October 2011, 7:10

      Interest comments, but the guys on PlanetF1 seem to have selective memories and don’t remember that little confusion over the radio in Turkey “Is Jenson going to overtake me?” “No, Lewis, no”, even though Button was faster. It is at Casa de RedBull where they take the front wing from one driver and give it to his team-mate. And don’t forget Silverstone this year too when Mark was told NOT to have a go at Sebastian. All these “small incidents” are delicately ignored, while when it comes to Alonso passing Massa, people are standing with a magnifying glass shouting that the pass was made to easily. Yes, Massa is No 2 at Ferrari simply because he isn’t as good as their No 1. There were precedents at other teams too (including the fairest of all – McLaren) when a driver made way for his team-mate to pass but interestingly, nobody cared.

      • David BR (@david-br) said on 10th October 2011, 15:03

        re. Turkey 2010: just to clarify Klaas, given the high fuel consumption being experiened by all teams, the issue was the instruction to save fuel given to both drivers, Hamilton understood they were given a set lap time to match, Button – admitting ‘confusion’ after the race – thought they just had to go a bit slower, and caught Lewis. When Button went past, the fight between them both to regain position was genuine and indeed spectacularly good. After that, the issue was ‘settled’, i.e. they were told to hold position baically, since both had to finish the race after all! Can we leave that one to rest now?!

        • Klaas (@klaas) said on 10th October 2011, 17:11

          I can leave it a rest, I was simply responding to the person who can’t. It seems some media has an attitude problem as it barely makes a headline when their favourite team is involved in a controversy, but when Ferrari is, they distort facts, make statements based on their own assumptions without any proofs. This is becoming more similar to paranoia when everything Massa does they say it’s for Alonso to make up places.

    • Klaas (@klaas) said on 10th October 2011, 8:52

      By the way, read the comments on the article, you seem the only one who agrees with the deluded author of that joke of a column.

    • That would be great if it wasn’t from PlanetF1 and it actually had some evidence that Massa moved over for Alonso instead of idle speculation from a point in the race where Massa was seriously struggling with his rear tyres irrc.

  2. I’d like to know when people have been “penalized for less.” In this race alone people were not penalized for considerably more. Massa is so boring now. His deranged mutterings are not distracting from his terrible performance in the car.

    FA is probably going to eat those words. If Newey makes another alien spaceship, no one is going to stop Vettel next year either. And after 7 or 8 races, we will again have to be content with speculating about why Hamilton chose his agents or why he is with an evil succubus girlfriend, and Massa’s insane pleadings like a panhandler on the subway.

  3. David-A (@david-a) said on 10th October 2011, 4:31

    Ignoring Massa’s comments, I’d say that this was a relatively trouble, incident free race weekend for him, which is what he needed. But that’s why it’s so worrying. He was still convincingly beaten by Fernando, both Red Bulls, both Mclarens as usual, and even Michael Schumacher in the Mercedes. Is this supposed to be the best he can do?

    On another note, Alonso saying “we will see who is the youngest three time world champion” is a legend response, game on 2012 :)

    • David BR (@david-br) said on 10th October 2011, 15:11

      That’s why despite all his ‘shenanigans’ I can’t help but like Alonso. His face seeing Vettel immediately after the race said it all: already planning how he’s going to beat Vettel to number 3! If McLaren can’t deliver, I really hope Ferrari can next year and we see an actual title battle.

  4. Girts (@girts) said on 10th October 2011, 7:04

    It’s interesting to watch the clashes between Hamilton and Massa both on and off track. At the moment, there are a lot of similarities between the two – both have been fighting for world championships before and both are now left in the shadows of their team mates. Their weakened form combined with the fact that Ferrari and McLaren are not far from each other in terms of pace ensures that Hamilton and Massa meet each other on the track much more often than they would like to. And the frustration leads to unwillingness to accept that “Lewis / Felipe is faster than you”.

    Talking about Hamilton, we cannot know what’s going on inside his head these days although it’s clear that he’s extremely frustrated with the current situation. But I wouldn’t be quick to tell him what he should do. If there was an easy solution to his problems, he would have found it by now but obviously there isn’t. Hamilton cannot simply change his driving style or his approach to racing in one day and he cannot suddenly become another person, too.

    • Adam Tate (@adam-tate) said on 10th October 2011, 7:43

      Great comment Girts.

    • Forotherruns said on 10th October 2011, 7:52

      Good response.

      I think Lewis Hamilton’s season can be summarised in just one word: PIRELLI

      His style just doesn’t work in this era of tyre preservation. In the Bridgestone days, his all out attack mode won him the championship. If he tries to drive to preserve tyres, he just isnt fast enough because that is not his style. This has brought about frustration and it reflects in his driving style. If you look at the early races where the tyres were harder compounds, he was performing much better than now.

      • davidwhite (@davidwhite) said on 10th October 2011, 11:36

        Spot on. These new tyres just don’t play to his strengths ie an all out racer. To be successful these days, you’re better off being slower in terms of real pace but gentle on the tyres – which is quite a neat description of Jenson Button!

    • bingi said on 10th October 2011, 9:06

      Massa is in a fragile, frustrated state of mind. The last time he won an F1 race was in 2008, which was also his best season – and look who beat him to the championship by a single point, and in Brazil to boot – bad, bad Lewis. Massa and Lewis have been involved in a few altercations this season – and Massa generally comes off the worse, even when both have to pit after their on-track embraces. In Suzuka, it hurt even more because, after their coming together and both having to pit, Lewis comes out and easily overtakes Massa, who must have been VERY sorely tempted to pull a Vettel-start-like move on the Englishman.
      But Massa is not really mad at Hamilton – no, no, no. He is mad at himself and his team, and his teammate. He hates Ferrari for making him Alonso’s b!tch: when Alonso wants to overtake him, Massa gets pulled over. He hates his team but he knows no other team will sign him 0 and hence is boxed into a tight red corner. He hates Alonso because the sulking Spaniard is a multiple world champion and has the whole of Ferrari at his beck and call, while he – Massa – has to sit there and play second fiddle – and even that only because Schumacher chose to go to Mercedes. In a way, Massa is just like his countryman, Baricchelo, but minus the wins and the skill (such as it is).
      This is why Lewis and everyone else – Alonso included – treat Massa with such derision: how can a Formula 1 driver let himself be turned into little more than a glorified water-boy for his team?
      These are the demons that are eating Massa up. This season, he has discovered that the Stewards don’t really mind when one has a go at Lewis, so he is trying to make that hay while that sun shines. He better: given the body language of Lewis at the moment at McLaren, the Englishman might be getting a move on – perhaps even breaking his contract or buying it out to go somewhere more interesting. One of those places, if Webber moves on and Alonso goes to Red Bull, would be Ferrari. And then, lordy, if Massa was still there, he would be Lewis’ b!tch. Wouldnt we love to see that…!

    • kenneth Ntulume said on 10th October 2011, 11:53

      Its very very very interesting, how people are so eager to assert that Button has left Hamilton in the shadows, its as if a deep rooted wish which appeared unlikely is now here, sorry folks Lewis is still a better driver. U dont get it Lewis doesn’t compete for nos 2 in the Championship nor a lesser goal of only beating your teammate, to Lewis not being champion is real bad, beating your team mate whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!JB can compete there

      • Hewis Lamilton said on 10th October 2011, 22:25

        Well said. Let Lewis enjoy his one WDC. Maybe he and Villeneuve can get together and compare their trophy. And Jensen could join in with his.

      • David-A (@david-a) said on 11th October 2011, 1:57

        So according to you, LH wants to be champion, but can’t be bothered to beat his teammate.

        Tell me how you thought “F1 Fanatic” is an synonym for “comedy club”?

  5. Adam Tate (@adam-tate) said on 10th October 2011, 7:40

    Whew, I’ve never seen so much hating on either Massa or Hamilton in the comments in a long time.

    Perhaps now that Vettel has won the title they will both calm down, not having to support Button and Alonso as much.

    I think both guys just need the off season to get here so they can take a break, take stock of their lives and R-E-L-A-X. And their fans, the media, etc. need to do the same.

    It is true that neither of them is living up to expectations this season, but to denounce them completely, call for them to be out of F1, or call them out of luck/past their prime/untalented is unfounded.

    Between the two of them they have 27 wins, 73 podiums, 33 poles, and 25 fastest laps.

    The reason for all this hullabaloo stems from their title fight in 2008 and the fact that they’ve come together no less than 4 times this season.

    I fully expect both McLaren and Ferrari to be closer to RedBull at the start of next season, with better cars under their belts I expect both of them to bounce back and give us what they used to provide; entertaining racing.

  6. BasCB (@bascb) said on 10th October 2011, 7:53

    Very nice COTD @Steph!

  7. verstappen (@verstappen) said on 10th October 2011, 8:08

    Although he uses it to make another point, Felipe Has one thing right: there still are inconsistencies between steward decisions.
    I’d rather use that to express my thoughts: there have been occasions when penalties were given too easily.
    I was relieved yesterday when Hamilton didn’t get punished for à racing incident.

    But still à matter for Todt to fix.

  8. Slr (@slr) said on 10th October 2011, 8:38

    I don’t like it when people use this as a chance to have a go at Massa by calling him untalented, or undeserving, or whatever. This isn’t really about Massa’s raw speed, it’s about Massa believing that Hamilton needs to calm down behind the steering wheel.

    I recently read that Hamilton doesn’t think that he is doing anything wrong behind the wheel. By not identifying the first step to fixing his problem, I can’t see an end to his numerous collisions at the moment. Button has shown that if you push the McLaren to its limit, you can win in it. Hopefully Hamilton will get his act together soon and start showing just how good he really is.

    • Adam Tate (@adam-tate) said on 10th October 2011, 10:48

      Excellent point. I couldn’t agree more with everything you just said.

    • Hairs (@hairs) said on 10th October 2011, 12:44

      @slr If Massa believes Hamilton needs to learn from his driving errors, why does he keep leaving his car in the way of harm? Surely if Lewis is such a liability, then you give him a wide berth and pass him when you’ve got everything locked in. You don’t sit halfway on the racing line, behind another driver, and hope the other car melts out of your way.

      • Slr (@slr) said on 10th October 2011, 14:29

        Massa constantly putting his car in the wrong place debatable, in Monaco and Singapore he did absolutely nothing wrong. In Japan he clearly didn’t expect Hamilton to turn left into him, I don’t think it was unreasonable of Massa to not expect such a thing. If Hamilton can’t see anything from his mirrors, then that’s something Hamilton and McLaren need to sort out.

        • Hairs (@hairs) said on 10th October 2011, 17:03

          @slr The stewards were very specific about that:

          Lewis did not turn into Massa. He followed the exact same (racing) line that he did on the previous lap.

          I don’t think it was unreasonable of Massa to not expect such a thing.

          There was no reason for Massa to believe that just because he had left half of his car sitting around, Lewis was going to change his line, especially if Massa really believes that Lewis is a dangerous liablility. In fact, given his comments, he should have expected, very precisely, that Lewis would crash into him.

          Either way, Massa’s visor wasn’t blocked at the time so he could have backed out of the move whenever he wanted to (Like Button did). He didn’t.

  9. Hamilton’s issues aside, these comments from Massa do strike as having a certain amount of gamesmanship behind them.

  10. Huron (@huron) said on 10th October 2011, 8:55

    Why no mention that Robert Wickens won the World Series by Renault 3.5 Championship? And in a pretty crazy way too.

    I know some here think GP2 is the pinnacle of of the lower formula, but WSR 3.5 is where Vettel and Kubica came from, so not sure why it is so ignored.

  11. Sergio Perez (@sergio-perez) said on 10th October 2011, 8:56

    I’m disappointed with Hamilton, to be honest. Right now, he’s showing that he is not the driver I thought he would be, a true great like Ayrton and the other true “Racers Champions” of motorsport history. Button has completely outclassed him inside and outside the racing track over here. In a true Driver’s circuit, Button proved to be a true F1 Champion. I don’t particularly like “Prost-ish” drivers like Button, but here he trully deserves to be second in the World Championship. Lewis is a shadow of his former self. I hope he takes some time to think and recover his joy and passion for racing. Right now, he seems completely lost and looks like an average driver. Right now my attention is on Kamui Kobayashi: yes, he had a terrible start but he did the overtaking move of the day, in my opinion. Really, he deserves to be racing in a better car. The romantic in me is alsso really disappointed with Bruno. Not a “Senna” like performance at all. Petrov really outclassed him here.

    Found interesting that tweet from João Paulo Oliveira. i remember that race. Vettel came out of nowhere and got 3rd place. Back then, he looked like a kid! Was he, what, 16, 17? Very impressive. That race was won by… Lucas Di Grassi, after an almost last lap overtaking to no other than Robert Kubica, who was Furious at the end of the race. He dominated it but was overtaken at the penultimate lap (if I’m not mistaken) after a safety car period… That is the Macau GP for you!

    • David BR (@david-br) said on 10th October 2011, 15:24

      Putting aside all the Massa nonsense, have to agree with you in being disappointed with Hamilton. Some of the passion seems to have gone. There may be a lot of reasons for that but there’s no way he’ll get close to Senna’s achievements or even Vettel and Alonso if he doesn’t refocus. He needs that extremely difficult mixture of a touch less arrogance and more real confidence (rather than simple bravado) that comes with maturity. At the moment he just seems fairly lost.

  12. It’s almost like Massa likes to have an excuse to have a moan at Lewis.. It is probably why he positioned his car somewhere where he could instigate another contact. This way he can crush Lewis spirit like his own has been crushed!

  13. Icthyes (@icthyes) said on 10th October 2011, 10:33

    I didn’t think there was anything wrong with Vettel’s start. If JB wanted to have a go he should have cur across to the racing line and Seb wouldn’t have been able to chop him again, instead he insisted on a drag race. He never got any further than Vettel’s back wheels so there’s nothing dodgy about what he did in my view.

  14. Thanks very much Cari! :)

    I don’t get all the criticism of Massa. The same guy keeps hitting into him so of course he’s going to be annoyed. Let’s face it, Hamilton hasn’t been on his best form at the moment but the worst part of it is every incident involves another driver. They’ve not all been his fault but by now, I’m surprised Felipe is actually staying so calm as I’d have completely lost the plot. He was pumped up after Singapore and lost his temper in front of the cameras after Lewis ignored him which was unprofessional and I’m not saying it’s right but we get that all the time like when Seb did his crazy sign, Sutil and Trulli almost ended up in a punch up, Hamilton having a rant at Monaco. I take all of that with a pinch of salt because they’ve just been racing at intense speeds. After the race Massa came out and said he didn’t want a GDPA meeting about Hamilton’s driving but now he is after yet another incident. I don’t agree with him as I think Hamilton needs a talk with Mclaren more than anything especially as they had a breakdown in communication during qualifying and possibly the race if Hamilton wasn’t warned Massa was coming but he’s entitled to his opinion and it’s not like it’s unfounded.

    • davidwhite (@davidwhite) said on 10th October 2011, 11:31

      Well the good news is you won’t have to put up with all the anti-Massa sentiment for too much longer. Just four more races and we won’t hear any more about Massa.

    • Hairs (@hairs) said on 10th October 2011, 12:59

      @steph Sure Felipe has some grounds to be annoyed that he keeps getting hit. But instead of just lashing out at another driver, he’s failing to ask himself a number of questions.

      1) Why is it that Lewis was able to deal with the front wing change, have a drive through, and still easily recover his race in Singapore, passing Massa on the way? Differences in car speed don’t account for it, because as usual Alonso was way up the field. Why does a bit of contact or damage utterly ruin Massa’s race, and leave him unable to recover, where other drivers are able to not only race on, but do well? He seems to break down and give up. Look at Button in Canada, or in Hungary, where he had significant rear wing damage.

      2) Why isn’t he being more careful around this “rogue” driver he’s complaining about? In Suzuka, he parked on the outside of the racing line, and was behind Lewis. He could see Lewis following the racing line into the corner. He didn’t have the speed to make a pass, but he didn’t back out of it or take evasive action. He just sat there. In the same situation, Button backed out, and made his move later, avoiding stupid contact and winning the race. Lewis has an argument “I can’t see out of these mirrors”, which you can believe or not. Massa doesn’t have any excuse that he couldn’t see, or avoid, what was obviously coming. All he had to do was say “This move isn’t going to work” and either move left, or back out and take the undercut. A better driver (Button or Alonso) would have done so. He did neither.

      3) Why does his engineer have to spend half the race telling him how to drive the car? We’re not talking about technical information, or recommendations about engine/diff settings, or the results of analysis from the strategy guys. We’re talking about “you need to brake later” and other mindboggling stuff.

      Lewis is making a number of stupid, avoidable errors this year. Massa, however, has fundamental flaws in both his driving and his mental state that he needs to address before he starts blaming everyone else for why he’s not doing well. 90% of Massa’s problems are his own. Lewis is around and about, but he’s not responsible for everything, much though Massa might want to think he is.

      • davidwhite (@davidwhite) said on 10th October 2011, 13:12

        Great post. I think Massa can be capable of good drives but he’s a real confidence driver and is very very unsure of himself at the moment. He’s been psyched out by Alonso and his confidence is v low. Think back to when Alonso passed Massa on the entry to the pits last year. If ever there was a statement of intent that was it. He’s never recovered since.

      • @Hairs Massa’s speed or lack thereof isn’t the issue. It’s about the coming together between Massa and Hamilton. Massa hasn’t blamed Lewis for him not being as quick as Alonso, he hasn’t said Lewis has ruined his season, he’s just said that Lewis has crashed into him on a couple of occasions and it’s hurt his race which is accurate. If you want to debate Massa’s season I happily will at any time with you Hairs as you know I enjoy doing but I don’t see how it’s relevant to what Massa is saying here. We’re going to keep debating until the end of time, aren’t we? :P

        • Hairs (@hairs) said on 10th October 2011, 17:11

          @steph The reason I bring Massa’s racing as a whole into is for two reasons:

          1) I don’t believe that Massa is 100% blameless in all these encounters, the one in Suzuka being the most obvious case of “No, you’re in the wrong there, Felipe.” That is not an attempt to absolve Lewis of his errors, it’s just a fact. Lewis has been stupid many many times this season. Other times he has just been unlucky. Other times, Massa has had at least 50% of the blame for the crash.

          2) This public lashing out at Lewis isn’t coming from nowhere. Other drivers have crashed into him, and he’s crashed into other drivers. Why isn’t he lashing out at them? I think that Massa has a number of other frustrations and problems – but this is the only one he can publicly talk about, or actually do anything about, and I think it’s no coincidence that the man he’s lashing out at is the man who pipped him to his one and only shot at glory in 2008. (Even if we disagree about his ability, it is a simple fact that as long as Alonso is in Ferrari, Massa will never be allowed to win a race, much less a championship. It’s also a fact that there are no other top-ranked teams that are going to take him on, when the likes of Hulkenberg are looking for a seat.) That’s sad, but it means that he’s going well overboard with his comments.

  15. Eddie (@wackyracer) said on 10th October 2011, 11:47

    I’m tired of Massa whining on the media about Lewis and about that accident it’s Massa`s fault. He couldn`t overtake there and he perfectly knew that noone looks at the mirrors in that particular point of the track.

    .

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