Felipe Massa: “Hamilton doesn’t learn”

F1 Fanatic round-up

In today?s round-up: Felipe Massa thinks the FIA should get tough on Lewis Hamilton following another incident between the pair at the Japanese Grand Prix.

Links

Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Massa asks FIA to get tough with Hamilton after Japanese Grand Prix clash (Autosport)

“They have penalised people for much less this year and this time they didn’t do it. It’s the second time in a row after the problem in qualifying as well in the last race, and after what happened yesterday. And after many times this year. The FIA needs to take care of that. They are the only ones who can take care of that.”

Red Bull Racing’s videos (Facebook)

Sebastian Vettel?s video message to his fans.

Japanese Grand Prix from the pit lane with Ted Kravitz (BBC F1)

??BBC F1 pit-lane reporter Ted Kravitz with the behind-the-scenes gossip in the aftermath of the Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka.

Murray Walker’s verdict on Sebastian Vettel (BBC F1)

??Formula 1 commentary legend Murray Walker gives his assessment of Sebastian Vettel and what the 2010 and 2011 world champion can go on to achieve in the sport.??

FIA post-race press conference (Formula1.com)

??Fernando [Alonso], now [Sebastian Vettel] is the youngest two time World Champion; you?ve lost that title. What does it mean to you now?

??FA: Really nothing special. I think now we will see who is the youngest three time World Champion.??

I am living the life of a F1 driver: Karthikeyan (Hindustan Times)

Video interview with Narain Karthikeyan ahead of the Indian Grand Prix.

Formula 1, rally and motorcycle stars lined up for kart event in Spain (Autosport)

??Barcelona’s Olympic Palau Sant Jordi will host an inaugural, all-star, indoor karting event on December 18. Six current Formula 1 drivers will compete against top competitors from MotoGP and the World Rally Championship.??

As Hamilton fluffs his lines again, Mansell chides: Lewis has an attitude problem (Daily Mail)

??Lewis has to work on an attitude problem,’ said Mansell, a winner of 31 grands prix. He needs to get his head in a better place. You have to manage your car better than Lewis has done on too many occasions this season. Too many times he has positioned his car where he has caused an incident.??

Jo??o Paulo Oliveira via Twitter

??Back in 05 Macau F3 GP I was really annoyed by a certain rookie driver who knocked me out of a podium. Now that guy is 2x F1 world champion.??

The time Scuderia Ferrari told me off (Doctorvee)

??Early on during this morning?s Japanese Grand Prix, Fernando Alonso overtook Felipe Massa. Massa didn?t make it difficult for Alonso ? not that you would expect him to. I have to admit to doing a little victory dance in my chair at having riled Ferrari enough to provoke them to reply.??

Follow F1 news as it breaks using the F1 Fanatic live Twitter app.

Comment of the day

Have you rated the race? Steph says:

I don?t want to put a downer on Seb because I love him and I?ve just watched the forum and I?m positively delighted for him but I thought he was a bit crazy at the start. He developed a nasty habit last year of chopping people at the start and trying to scare them out of the way (Germany for example) and I thought he had grown out of it but it wasn?t nice to see it make a comeback today. He?s been so, so close to perfection all year and fully deserves this title but that really annoyed me at the start.

JB?s win was my favourite ever of his. He was very calm after the start and got his revenge in great style. I?ve said before that I wanted to see him win in dry conditions and showcase his speed and that?s exactly what he did. I may be a Ferrari fan and he?s a in a Mclaren but I really enjoyed watching him.

I?m delighted for Alonso. He?s my driver of the day (JB for the weekend). The way he managed his race and set the car up was just so smart. It?s like he came out of nowhere, steadily climbed up while others made mistakes and somehow managed to push JB a bit too in that awful car.

Congrats to all three podium occupants today. JB deserved his win, Alonso deserved 2nd place and Vettel more than deserved his title. It was beautiful to watch the celebrations and he fans were still there cheering! The Japanese fans are just diamonds.

I was a bit surprised to see Mark wasn?t with the Red Bull team celebrating which is bad form and bad PR.
Steph

From the forum

Thanks for all the suggestions so far for new F1 Fanatic groups – add your ideas in the forum.

Happy birthday!

No F1 Fanatic birthdays today. If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

James Hunt won the United States Grand Prix East 35 years ago today, setting up a championship showdown at the final race in Japan.

Niki Lauda finished third behind Jody Scheckter, keeping a three-point lead over Hunt heading into the last race.

Here are some highlights from the race:

Advert | Go Ad-free

169 comments on Felipe Massa: “Hamilton doesn’t learn”

  1. taurus (@taurus) said on 10th October 2011, 12:15

    Lets just get rid of penalties altogether, its a mans sport with racing incidents. Fine the drivers or something else. Watching grown up men whining ‘he should get a penalty’ is getting on my nerves quite frankly.

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 10th October 2011, 12:28

      @taurus So you want drivers ramming each other off the track without being punished? I’m afraid this isn’t a remotely realistic idea.

      • taurus (@taurus) said on 10th October 2011, 12:36

        Like I say, fine them. If it is clearly a blatant ramming, ie Schumacher in Jerez ’97, hand out one-race bans or disqualifications.

        A bit of contact is part of motorsport in my opinion, eg Dijon ’79. That quite rightly gets lauded as brilliant racing.

        • John H (@john-h) said on 10th October 2011, 13:28

          News just in… Gilles Villeneuve handed 25-second post race penalty by the FIA after taking 32 years to review the footage. He has been demoted to 4th place a spokesman today confirmed.

          Renault driver René Arnoux was handed second place and is said to be “ecstatic” that justice has finally been served describing Villeneuve’s driving as “mindless” and going on to comment that the former Ferrari ace “just doesn’t learn”.

          Alan Jones is now classified 3rd and is said to be “decidedly nonplussed” with the podium result.

      • Girts (@girts) said on 10th October 2011, 12:59

        I don’t think that drivers would crash into each other all the time if there were no penalties for doing that. There were times when there were no TV cameras that could have spotted every possible incident, yet drivers didn’t act so irresponsibly. Because they obviously 1) feared revenge 2) knew that they could crash themselves and get hurt or even worse.

        I don’t think we should get rid of penalties completely but reducing the number of them would only encourage more exciting racing.

  2. glue (@glue) said on 10th October 2011, 12:35

    I really don’t see the relevance of having Massa’s form or speed brought into discussion.. This sort of incident is something Hamilton can easily avoid if he would just think a bit outside his 1.8m-wide McLaren and not put other drivers at risk, because this sort of collision in the braking zone for corners can be very dangerous, as it was with Diniz and Alesi in the 2000 German GP. And they weren’t exactly at the pointy end of the field, were they

  3. Massa should rethink why he’s in the sport again. I remember him saying that he would not race if he would be the #2 driver. Why is he still racing?

    With regards to Hamilton’s aggressive driving; yes he does drive quite aggressively, which doesn’t mean isn’t capable of preserving his tires. If I remember correctly, Hamilton preserved the tires much better last year than Button. So it’s not only the style, it’s also the set up, actually, it’s mainly the set up of the car.

    But again, let’s wait and see how the last four races unfold and draw our conclusions. While Button definitely has lifted his game I still believe that Hamilton is the faster (read: better driver).

  4. PJA (@pja) said on 10th October 2011, 13:26

    In my opinion the stewards were right regarding Hamilton and Massa, it was just a racing incident.

    Honestly what did Massa expect trying to go down the outside at the chicane like he did, it was always likely to end in contact with Hamilton, has Massa not learned from the events from the last few races. The only way Massa was going to get by Hamilton there would have been to cut the chicane and go off the circuit.

    If I didn’t know better I would have said Massa deliberately put his car there thinking that with everything Hamilton has done this season Hamilton would get out of the way rather than risk another coming together especially with Massa.

    Massa also makes reference to what happened in qualifying in Suzuka with Hamilton indicating that Hamilton was at fault again. At Singapore Massa criticised Hamilton for not waiting and making a gap and instead overtaking Massa in qualifying, yet at Suzuka Hamilton did wait and make a gap to the car in front of him and this caused Webber and Schumacher to both overtake Hamilton.

    It would be interesting to know what has been said in the driver briefings with regards to Hamilton and Massa, because it was reported that even after all the media attention on Schumacher’s moves at Monza nothing was said at the next driver meeting.

    When Alonso easily got by Massa early on, in the commentary Brundle and Coulthard wondered if Massa had let Alonso by again, and said that if Ferrari kept ordering him to do it will break Massa.

    Did any reporter attempt to ask Massa if he had let Alonso by or with everything else that happened did it get forgotten about?

  5. PJA (@pja) said on 10th October 2011, 13:51

    Regarding the COTD from Steph, I think part of the reason Vettel made that move at the start was because Alonso squeezed him onto the grass back at Monza and no action was taken. Personally I think that both incidents were firm but fair.

    When Button and Vettel were talking before they went on the podium Button said something like “so that’s how we’re racing now is it” which said to me that if the positions are reversed in the future Button will shut the door on Vettel in the same way because a) Vettel thinks it is accepatable b) the stewards took no action.

    The same could be said of Schumacher’s moves on Hamilton at Monza. Hamilton and others may start to think those moves are now acceptable as Schumacher did not even receive a post race reprimand despite the driver steward Derek Daly saying later that he would have given Schumacher a penalty if he had seen the moves live.

  6. DONN (@donn) said on 10th October 2011, 13:52

    I had a lot of respect for Massa but He goes just a
    fraction along side a car following the raceing line and clips the back every one knows how bad the mirrors are and what chance does the driver stand ? non you can’t say it was on perpose unless you belive Massa is really trying to ruin Hamilton races the only one to benifit is Alonso can’t think why

  7. njw (@njw) said on 10th October 2011, 13:57

    What was wrong with the grass?

    Vettel knowingly pushed Button (see onboards of his head movement), and Button took to the grass. Whether that was right or wrong, the stewards said play on. Massa could have done the same – he didn’t, they hit. Note Hamilton’s head movement – looking at the apex for the next turn in.

    Massa was coming from behind in a half-baked move on Hamilton. How many times have people been on this blog blaming Hamilton for crashes with the line “he was coming from behind, it’s his responsibility”? I suppose now its 100% his responsibility to know exactly what’s happening behind him, and Massa was just the innocent victim?

    While I don’t think Hamilton is totally blameless, I do think Massa needs to carry the lions share this time – and that a racing incident is probably the right call. Even though I suspect if the cars were reversed, Hamilton would have been penalised.

    Why did Massa try such a move anyway? He was never going to make that move stick. Why try something like that against someone you believe has it in for you at every event? Massa needs to worry about his own racing – but maybe that’s the issue. Let’s face it, Ferrari probably won’t be keeping him long giving his performances against his team mate.

    If you look at the different stewarding calls over the last few years, you have to admit other drivers get away with things Hamilton cannot dream of. I wouldn’t mind if they want to be harsh (although please, not too harsh – let’s not ruin the racing) but, they really needs to resolving stewarding consistency.

    And another thing, why are the arm-chair experts so quick to dismiss the “I didn’t see him in my mirrors” statement? I’ve driven a single seater – now I’m no racing driver and that car was nothing like an F1 car – but at 150mph+ when things start to vibrate, it does become pretty difficult see anything in tiny mirrors, even a “red blob”!

    Rant over ;)

  8. SupaSix-1 said on 10th October 2011, 15:05

    You may as well turn Formula 1 into one lifesized Scalextric track.

    With the way in which some people moan about moves and incidents…you’d think that they want Formula 1 to become a real-life scalextric event with cars following each other around.

    I guess they would also prefer that when any car goes off track….the race can be paused and a giant version of bernie’s hand comes over to pick up the cars and place them back on their tracks.

    The days of raw close quarter racing, wheel-banging and the tests of sheer bravery which set driver skill apart is now long gone.

    -Formula 1 has been ruined and it will only get worse.

  9. The Limit said on 10th October 2011, 15:12

    I was surprised Hamilton did not get a penalty for the Massa incident, and I cannot blame Felipe for being upset. Lewis appears like a man who cannot wait for this season to end, it has been a stinker in more ways than one, and is not getting any better.
    I buy into the theory that it is a mental thing with Lewis. When everything is going his way he looks everybit the superstar driver the majority say he is. He’s exciting when he is on top of his game, he takes risks and passes where others do not, and does it with style. There has always been an arrogance in his driving, a do or die move over or we a going to crash mentality that few drivers possess. However, that is great when it works!
    At the moment he reminds me of Kimi Raikkonen in 2008. Every grands prix you a waiting to see the flash of the old genius you know is there but fails to show itself. In that ofcourse, I am not saying Raikkonen was crashing into everybody three years ago, but he was certainly at best mediocre and not himself.
    Hamilton has not figured in the 2011 world championship for awhile now, yet his team mate has. It must hurt him to see Vettel win back to back titles at such a young age, to become the youngest ever double champion, a feat Lewis obviously thought he would have accomplished by now. Its all a far cry from 2007/2008 when he had the world by the balls and the full might of the McLaren team behind him, safe in the knowledge that he was their ‘star’ driver.
    He needs to spend this winter ponduring his future and how to get back to winning ways. He needs to focus on one thing first for 2012, and that is beating Jenson Button. He has to forget the other drivers for awhile, and remind McLaren and the world of the Lewis we expect to see and want to see. Once he has done this, then he can go after the others and think about championships again.
    Massa is quite right about one thing, Hamilton is not learning from his mistakes. And it is not Massa who is hurting through these errors, but Lewis himself. If he learns, he can be that eye catching driver he was. If not, how long will it be before McLaren lose patience with him?

    • SupaSix-1 said on 10th October 2011, 15:41

      I think to be fair to Lewis…he is not being allowed to move on and learn as the media dont allow him to get over it by constantly dragging up old news in his face.
      In japan he shouldve been allowed to focus on the GP but he was being swamped with reminders of the previous race 2 weeks before even though he wisely stayed away from commenting on it since Singapore.

      Yes Lewis needs to learn just like every driver before him inc all the greats. He is still only in his 5th season and will learn….but the media have been quite unfair on him as they love having a villain to keep beating up all the time.

      I believe that the harsher the lessons..the stronger you become. I think that the only time Lewis will get some peace and the time to toughen up will be once the season is over..not before as the media will continue to jump on his back before then and continue stirring up.

      • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 10th October 2011, 15:47

        the media dont allow him to get over it by constantly dragging up old news in his face.

        This is just lazy media-bashing.

        Hamilton stalked out of Singapore refusing to talk about his last silly prang. It’s hardly a surprise he would face questions about it at the next opportunity the F1 media had to put them to him, which of course was in Japan.

        He has no-one to blame but himself on this count.

        • So Keith, is this the reason why you seem to bash Hamilton?

          More than often you’ve claimed to state facts and although you won’t admit and you don’t have to since it’s a blog. Maybe Hamilton doesn’t want to be dragged into a media-war with other drivers about incidents of last races and just move on.

          Despite stated above, I still enjoy read your articles and comments posted on the blog :-)

          • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 10th October 2011, 16:48

            @am I haven’t got anything against Hamilton and I’ve no idea what you’re referring to when you say “you seem to bash Hamilton”. Perhaps you could supply some examples.

  10. Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 10th October 2011, 15:20

    I was a bit surprised to see Mark wasn’t with the Red Bull team celebrating which is bad form and bad PR.

    Team mates are never there for the celebrations, unless they also got a podium to celebrate. I’ve noted this in all teams except maybe Mclaren (because both men are british I guess, and it works somehow).

  11. mcmclaren said on 10th October 2011, 17:04

    my sister used to have a doll that sound just like massa…

    …every time you pulled the cord on its back

    boo-hoo-hoo-hoo -hoo

  12. OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 10th October 2011, 17:29

    Talking about nicknames, @mark, probably we can nickname lewis as LEWIS HARMilton

  13. @Keith Collantine:

    I don’t have any examples and it’s not like you are doing it explicitly. It’s just the way you react on posts from fellow users regarding Hamilton. But next time I’ve got the impression you’re ‘bashing’ Hamilton, I’ll let you know.

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 10th October 2011, 18:33

      @am

      I don’t have any examples

      Perhaps think twice the next time you accuse someone of “bashing” with nothing to back it up.

      • sebsronnie (@sebsronnie) said on 11th October 2011, 7:31

        Probably not bashing per se, but I recall reading your race report and noting that you didn’t mention anything about the puncture Lewis suffered that had a knock-on effect on the rest of his race. Here’s what you said:

        But within nine laps Hamilton was struggling for grip. He ran wide at Spoon curve and Button was instantly through into second place. Alonso hounded the McLaren as Hamilton dived for the pits.

        Thought a fairer assessment would have included the fact that he had a puncture and was on older tyres than the rest of the front-runners. You’re still my favourite F1 blogger though… :-)

      • As I mentioned I don’t have any examples (I’ve got other things to do besides collecting evidence to prove your wrong :-) ). It’s not like I’m suggesting you’re not entitled to an opinion, it’s just a trend I’ve noticed. Anyways, do as you like, it’s your blog, but perhaps you should thinks twice before suggesting you’ve nothing against Hamilton since I’m not the first one mentioning it.

        • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 11th October 2011, 14:34

          @am

          It’s not like I’m suggesting you’re not entitled to an opinion

          No you aren’t – you said I “bash” him, which suggest I hold a grudge against him and regularly have a go at him.

          This is not my attitude towards Hamilton or any other driver and you have nothing that says otherwise.

          • Keith, I stated “bash” like this, cause it’s not really bashing. Again, and this is my last reply reagarding this, it’s your comments and the way you use the info (like not mentioning the slow puncture). See it as free feedback and do whatever you like with it (or not!).

  14. This whole Massa/Hamilton saga is getting tiring. The stewards investaged and deemed it a racing incident. This is not what some people might want to hear but at least the stewards gave us the reason for their decision. It’s begining to sound as if Massa is looking for excuses for his abismal performance. It’s time for Massa to focus on his own performance and stop moaning. The fact that his engineer has to come on the radio to tell him how to take corners on race track tells you where Massa is at the moment.

    Nigel also needs to keep his opinion to himself. He is a steward and so making such comments will only make any punishment he dishes out questionable.

  15. Keith, you need to take the viewers of members of this blog on board. I remember a couple of weeks ago someone made the same suggestion that being the moderator of this blog its best if you don’t take stance even though you are allowed to have an opinion. I’ve made that comment about you not being a fan of hamilton purely because of some of the comments you’ve made on some of the posts on here.

Add your comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

All comments must abide by the comment policy. Comments may be moderated.
Want to post off-topic? Head to the forum.
See the FAQ for more information.