Felipe Massa, Ferrari, Buddh International Circuit, 2011

Massa calls for kerb change after crash

2011 Indian Grand PrixPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Felipe Massa, Ferrari, Buddh International Circuit, 2011
Felipe Massa, Ferrari, Buddh International Circuit, 2011

Felipe Massa says the kerb he hit when he crashed in qualifying should be changed for next year.

Massa said: “What happened on my last timed lap was a real shame.

“Today, we had the potential to secure a good placing, as Fernando [Alonso] demonstrated and as can also be seen from the fact my sixth best time was set with a rather slow third sector.

“I came into turn eight and went over the kerb and the front right suspension gave way in the impact with the raised orange part, which in my opinion is too high at this point. It’s a very fast corner, taken at around 215kph and it could be arranged differently.

“These are details that need improving for next year.”

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82 comments on “Massa calls for kerb change after crash”

  1. I still reckon cutting through Turn 7 once too often did his front suspension no favours. It no doubt weakened the front-right to the point where the impact with the kerb was enough to break the suspension loose.

    1. SennaNmbr1 (@)
      29th October 2011, 13:33

      Definitely looked like it was weakened by the first kerb.

    2. It wouldnt matter right and left corner of the front suspension are independent I reckon that his failure was due to continuos cuttin at turn 8 from FP1 to Q3

    3. Agreed, but the orange kerb is quite vicious

  2. I don’t think they should change it, it’s refreshing to have a new track that actually punishes drivers without harm.

    1. But Massa could have been harmed, even if it was unlikely.

      1. He shouldn’t have cut the corner so much then. Sounds callous (probably is) but it’s refreshing that he was punished. Even if the curb wasn’t like that I imagine taking the corner that way would have compromised that sector. I think he’s probably just embarrassed that he was put out of qualifying by his own error in a fairly minor crash.

        1. Sounds callous (probably is) but it’s refreshing that he was punished

          Punishment should come from his time being deleted not by his car dangerously falling apart. The Sing sling is at least slower so the chances of a big accident are a little lower but iirc that’s a fairly fast bit of track.

          1. I think his crash proved that a big crash is very unlikely to happen there.

        2. This is not a street circuit so shouldn’t be treated like one.

        3. @matt90 I wasn’t backing Massa’s opinion, I don’t really have an opinion on whether the kerbs need to be changes. I was just pointing that even though it was indeed unlikely Massa could have been hurt, the fact is that there was always a chance of him getting hurt.

    2. I agree, take the appropriate line and you won’t get punished, much like the “Singapore Sling”.

    3. I agree. Actually massa went beyond normal (red & white) kerb & then put his wheel on orange part which should not be used as normal kerb. So for me i think kerbs are good enough & moreover he didn’t complain about them until met with suspension broke. We haven’t heard any complaints from any other drivers reg kerbs.

    4. Punish shouldnt equal potential hospital trip in that corner things could be really dangerous

      1. They would only be dangerous if you don’t drive them properly.

        Take too much kerb, and you will break your car.

      2. Punish shouldnt equal potential hospital trip

        Agreed. It can cause nasty consequences during the race.

      3. It would only be dangerous if there was a good chance a car could be launchec off it. It is not placed in a position where that is likely to happen. Massa is just trying to divert away from his poor driving. The bump is there to deter drivers from cutting the corner and it worked.

  3. I guess it’s like that little off track bump in Australia. It brings character to à circuit.

  4. He completely missed the apex. Massa’s mistake, but maybe the suspension was already damaged by all his front wing oscillations and his previous hard run over kerbs. It is a bit silly he always find something to blame but himself :(
    Are the suspensions also a 2012 spec?

    1. he got the habbit from lewis. looks to be contagious

      1. are u talking about the character from LOTR?

      2. What on earth has hamilton got to do with this story?

    2. I guessed Massa just got too overexcited after topping the time sheets in fp2 and being overshadowed by alonso all season,he just pushed the car way too hard.I bet if he would have finished that lap without the accident he would have never complained about the kerb.Btw thats the quote from lewis hamilton ”
      The track is fantastic – the organisers here in India have done a great job. It’s very fast and flowing, the grip-level is fantastic, the run-off areas seem to be good, and the kerbs are probably the best of any circuit we visit: nice rumble-strips that you can drive on.”

  5. Change your driving instead.

    This is no different to Singapore apart from that you have a much bigger run off.

  6. His views are entirely understandable but had his suspension not failed I suspect we wouldn’t have heard anything about them. If he wanted to attack the kerbs like that maybe he should have gone for a more compliant suspension set up.

    Fact is he hit them once too many and the suspension cried enough. There are plenty of other tracks on the calendar with those inside kerbs which are just as high as, if not higher than these ones and everyone else managed them ok.

    1. The fact is that he did not hit the kerb. The bump is beyond the already generous kerbing. He was off the track and payed the price.

  7. Rather than alter the kerb, Felipe should take the kerb properly like everyone else did.

    1. +1 – The track is the grey stuff. He’ll be moaning about the walls in Monaco & Montreal next. Muppet.

  8. I heard that massa wants the kerbs to be renamed hamiltons so he can can continue that whinge instead of starting another

    come to think of it , there will always be something with him

    1. ha ha ha …COTD!

    2. Grow up. Massa doesn’t whinge nearly as much as Lewis. Whenever Massa whinges, it’s been completely justified. Hamilton, however, crashes into people and then moans about getting penalties. I’m not against Hamilton, but I’m against people that are against Massa.

  9. All I’m saying is that the other drivers coped with the kerbs and didn’t crash

  10. Massa is obviously a suporter of Bernie’s ‘Short cuts’ idea. Next thing he’ll want to drive through the barriers of monaco, through the front door of a hotel, out the back door, through another barrier and back onto the track without damaging his car.

  11. ” raised orange part,” they should be remove for the race.

  12. It’s an anti-cut device. Isn’t it just fulfilling the duty that kerbs used to serve in the 70s/80s/90s before they were flattened in the 2000s, i.e. as a place the driver shouldn’t put his car?

    I like Felipe, but it’s his own fault for driving where he shouldn’t.

  13. The rules say the track is between the white lines, Massa was at least a metre beyond the lines, so what does he expect.

    In fact the orange lumps should be made bigger, better and meaner.

    Getting to be quite the little whinger, ain’t ‘e.

  14. For once I agree with Massa. That orange kerb is TOO high and therefore dangerous, leave alone getting off the racing line!!

    1. The solution is simple: don’t drive over the curb.

    2. It was not the kerb that did the damage it was the bump placed beyond the kerb to stop drivers cutting the corner that broke his car. Drivers take a risk by using kerbs as it is so they should expect to come off bad if they go beyond them.

  15. It wasn’t a problem until he made it one. He took an odd line through the corner and that hindered him. He has a point saying it needs to be changed but its similar to the bump off the track at Sepang that broke Petrov’s steering column, it shouldn’t be there as it could cause an accident but it’s once in a blue moon accident.

  16. ha ha. Maybe all the other drivers should also be removed from the circuit so Massa can win the championship. 23 drivers went by the same place with no incident, but his majesty Massa cannot, so it needs to change. Excuse me while I laugh, now, will you?

  17. The kerb says Felipe Massa, who hit it when he crashed in qualifying, should be changed for next year.

    The curb said “He came into turn eight and went over me straight at my stationery raised orange part, which in my opinion is too too far of the race track for him to be at this point.

    “It’s a very fast corner, taken at around 215kph and is not arranged differently for a reason.

    “These are drivers that need replacing for next year.”

    1. COTD! Nice one indeed..

    2. I heard that the kerb (a.k.a ‘the curb’) was dating Nicole Scherzinger now. Fair play to him.

    3. Easy nomination for COTD!

  18. you’ve got to love the way gpupdate.net worded it

    ‘Turn 8 anti-cut kerbing too high, claims Massa’

    man up massa

  19. I do agree with Felipe but i wouldnt be too critical on the track,The Designers or the people who actually layed out the circuit,Bare in mind this is India’s first GP so under-estimation is highly likely,We’ve seen that in Abu Dhabi in 2009 & Korea in 2010 there’s going to be almost certainly flaws at every new Grand Prix track.

    Its just something to learn from * im pretty sure that adjustments & other things that went wrong would be made right for next year.

    1. Nothing has gone wrong. One driver chose to leave the track by putting a wheel on the curb. The curb did its job, actually, so this is exactly what should have happened.

  20. I honestly can’t agree with anyone saying that these kers are right and that they should be maintained. I think their purpose is to slow down the car sufficiently so that riding them is a disadvantage, and not to break the suspension of car that happens to ride them.

    Let’s take for example the kerbs on that awful chicane at Catalunya. They have the same raised concrete stuff on the outside. However, I’ve never seen a suspension breaking there, even though I’ve seen drivers riding them plently of times. However, when they do, they lose time.

    And anyway, I don’t think it makes much sense to believe that having a single kerb that can retire a car is a good way to “punish drivers” while in some corners we have acres of tarmac run-off areas that doesn’t punish drivers at all.

    1. I see you point about a one off hit breaking the car despite my comment below, however, it wasn’t just the once he did it.

      The key is there needs to be a serious incentive to not try and take an advantage.

    2. How does anyone know what caused the suspension failure? How does any know that suspension wouldn’t have failed at the next corner?

    3. We saw many drivers run wide at Turn 8 all through FPs as well as quali. My theory is that the kerbs are good (Which I mean is proper height) but since so many cars went through that orange “lump” they kicked off dust and sort of dug a whole there which would have damaged Massa’s suspension. Of course he went too far there and is ready with his baby-like excuses. A case of sour grapes maybe?

    4. I don’t think it makes much sense to believe that having a single kerb that can retire a car is a good way to “punish drivers” while in some corners we have acres of tarmac run-off areas that doesn’t punish drivers at all

      What then do you suggest in place of the kerb?

      The idea is that they can’t cut the corner to gain an advantage, just like you can’t cut an armco to gain one.

      If the driver doesn’t seem to understand that then that’s their problem, not the circuit designer.

    5. Perhaps they should replace the bump with a wall like monaco?

    6. @Guilherme I agree completely. If you don’t want drivers to cut corners, don’t line them with tarmac. If there was some nice slippery grass on the inside of the kerb, no-one with half a brain would be cutting corners!

      1. As opposed to large suspension breaking bumps? Surely it is far more sensible to cut a grass corner than cutting a corner with a huge hump on it?

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