Massa calls for kerb change after crash

2011 Indian Grand Prix

Felipe Massa, Ferrari, Buddh International Circuit, 2011

Felipe Massa, Ferrari, Buddh International Circuit, 2011

Felipe Massa says the kerb he hit when he crashed in qualifying should be changed for next year.

Massa said: “What happened on my last timed lap was a real shame.

“Today, we had the potential to secure a good placing, as Fernando [Alonso] demonstrated and as can also be seen from the fact my sixth best time was set with a rather slow third sector.

“I came into turn eight and went over the kerb and the front right suspension gave way in the impact with the raised orange part, which in my opinion is too high at this point. It’s a very fast corner, taken at around 215kph and it could be arranged differently.

“These are details that need improving for next year.”

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82 comments on Massa calls for kerb change after crash

  1. Bingi said on 29th October 2011, 15:07

    ha ha. Maybe all the other drivers should also be removed from the circuit so Massa can win the championship. 23 drivers went by the same place with no incident, but his majesty Massa cannot, so it needs to change. Excuse me while I laugh, now, will you?

  2. peteleeuk (@peteleeuk) said on 29th October 2011, 15:19

    The kerb says Felipe Massa, who hit it when he crashed in qualifying, should be changed for next year.

    The curb said “He came into turn eight and went over me straight at my stationery raised orange part, which in my opinion is too too far of the race track for him to be at this point.

    “It’s a very fast corner, taken at around 215kph and is not arranged differently for a reason.

    “These are drivers that need replacing for next year.”

  3. mcmclaren said on 29th October 2011, 15:24

    you’ve got to love the way gpupdate.net worded it

    ‘Turn 8 anti-cut kerbing too high, claims Massa’

    man up massa

  4. Younger Hamii (@younger-hamii) said on 29th October 2011, 15:28

    I do agree with Felipe but i wouldnt be too critical on the track,The Designers or the people who actually layed out the circuit,Bare in mind this is India’s first GP so under-estimation is highly likely,We’ve seen that in Abu Dhabi in 2009 & Korea in 2010 there’s going to be almost certainly flaws at every new Grand Prix track.

    Its just something to learn from * im pretty sure that adjustments & other things that went wrong would be made right for next year.

  5. Guilherme (@guilherme) said on 29th October 2011, 16:13

    I honestly can’t agree with anyone saying that these kers are right and that they should be maintained. I think their purpose is to slow down the car sufficiently so that riding them is a disadvantage, and not to break the suspension of car that happens to ride them.

    Let’s take for example the kerbs on that awful chicane at Catalunya. They have the same raised concrete stuff on the outside. However, I’ve never seen a suspension breaking there, even though I’ve seen drivers riding them plently of times. However, when they do, they lose time.

    And anyway, I don’t think it makes much sense to believe that having a single kerb that can retire a car is a good way to “punish drivers” while in some corners we have acres of tarmac run-off areas that doesn’t punish drivers at all.

    • BBT (@bbt) said on 29th October 2011, 16:17

      I see you point about a one off hit breaking the car despite my comment below, however, it wasn’t just the once he did it.

      The key is there needs to be a serious incentive to not try and take an advantage.

    • MVEilenstein (@mveilenstein) said on 29th October 2011, 17:48

      How does anyone know what caused the suspension failure? How does any know that suspension wouldn’t have failed at the next corner?

    • Neel Jani (@neelv27) said on 29th October 2011, 17:58

      We saw many drivers run wide at Turn 8 all through FPs as well as quali. My theory is that the kerbs are good (Which I mean is proper height) but since so many cars went through that orange “lump” they kicked off dust and sort of dug a whole there which would have damaged Massa’s suspension. Of course he went too far there and is ready with his baby-like excuses. A case of sour grapes maybe?

    • John H (@john-h) said on 29th October 2011, 19:57

      I don’t think it makes much sense to believe that having a single kerb that can retire a car is a good way to “punish drivers” while in some corners we have acres of tarmac run-off areas that doesn’t punish drivers at all

      What then do you suggest in place of the kerb?

      The idea is that they can’t cut the corner to gain an advantage, just like you can’t cut an armco to gain one.

      If the driver doesn’t seem to understand that then that’s their problem, not the circuit designer.

    • Perhaps they should replace the bump with a wall like monaco?

    • damonsmedley (@damonsmedley) said on 30th October 2011, 8:21

      @Guilherme I agree completely. If you don’t want drivers to cut corners, don’t line them with tarmac. If there was some nice slippery grass on the inside of the kerb, no-one with half a brain would be cutting corners!

      • As opposed to large suspension breaking bumps? Surely it is far more sensible to cut a grass corner than cutting a corner with a huge hump on it?

  6. BBT (@bbt) said on 29th October 2011, 16:14

    Thankfully there is a big (enough) run off area so no harm done this time.

    Nothing wrong with the corner in my opinion, just don’t cut it so much while trying to gain an advantage.
    Hopefully we will now see drivers not trying to take advantage.

    Safety must come first but its good to see a penalty, car breaking, like in times gone by, as long as safety doesn’t become an issue.
    On the other hand, I suppose the worry is part of the suspension could easily hit the driver and we’ve had enough bad new in motor sport recently.

  7. TED BELL said on 29th October 2011, 16:14

    Two men, a couple of shovels and ten bags of ready mix will solve the problem in about a half hour.

  8. MVEilenstein (@mveilenstein) said on 29th October 2011, 17:50

    “These are details that need improving for next year.”

    Quite right. Build the curbs higher and thicker next year.

  9. Neel Jani (@neelv27) said on 29th October 2011, 17:58

    We saw many drivers run wide at Turn 8 all through FPs as well as quali. My theory is that the kerbs are good (Which I mean is proper height) but since so many cars went through that orange “lump” they kicked off dust and sort of dug a whole there which would have damaged Massa’s suspension. Of course he went too far there and is ready with his baby-like excuses. A case of sour grapes maybe?

  10. I’m getting a bit bored of the way Massa is criticised. I don’t agree with a lot of what he says but to just call him names or label him “a moaner” isn’t even constructive. Drivers such as Ham complained about the Singapore sling and didn’t draw as much criticism. This looked like it was a fast bit of track and while I don’t mind barriers there to punish drivers the way the Ferrari fell apart and Felipe had no control was worrying. When it comes to safety I’m all for drivers having their say and I think they should contribute more to track design. I don’t mind drivers being punished by hitting the wall and that’s it but for a part of the car to almost break off and for the whole vehicle to fly across the track isn’t what I want to see.

    • John H (@john-h) said on 29th October 2011, 20:08

      I know you like Massa Steph, to be honest I used to like him too but he’s moaning way to much now and making himself look a bit silly.

      The difference with Hamilton’s comments at Singapore is that he didn’t complain after he had just put it in the wall (something he never did do of course). The fact that Massa is calling for changes after not respecting the circuit like the other 23 drivers warrants some of the comments here I feel. The drivers all knew it was a large kerb that could potentially damage any part of their car, be it the floor, front wing, suspension, etc, and if they didn’t then well, they should understand the circuit better then.

      As for the last bit, that kerb really isn’t less safe than having a wall there. Massa’s car ended up going into a gravel trap and had a gentle brush with the barrier. A wall could have potentially rebounded the whole car back onto racing line.

      • @JohnH I honestly don’t care about Massa right now. The championship is over and I’m a Ferrari fan first. I’ve also said on Twitter I’m sick of the stick Ham and Massa get. I’m just bored of the childish comments. I’d love to debate the content any time though.

        @Hairs I still don’t think a kerb should cause a violent accident even if he was going too deep.

    • Perhaps it is more of a ferrari problem than a track problem.

    • Hairs (@hairs) said on 29th October 2011, 23:18

      You may be tired of the critics, but the fact remains Massa was driving off the track. Repeatedly. You might as well complain that driving over the gravel caused his radiators to fill up with gravel. His complaint about the kerb is absolute nonsense.

    • damonsmedley (@damonsmedley) said on 30th October 2011, 8:25

      @Steph Firstly, that’s not a rant. Secondly, I couldn’t agree more! I don’t like agreeing but on this occasion I have to. He’s moaned about Lewis before, but it’s always justified, isn’t it? I see it’s mostly Hamilton fans that are criticising him, and I think it’s just because they don’t like him. Or they’re creating a scapegoat to bash for Hamilton’s poor form. But Lewis is the biggest whinger on the grid in my opinion. He repeatedly takes people out and then complains as if he’s being targeted when he gets a penalty.

  11. djdaveyp85 (@djdaveyp87) said on 29th October 2011, 19:13

    Learn to drive Felipe. Nobody else broke their suspension there. If more than one car did it, it may be a problem. As that is not the case it is just you trying to steal some extra track because Fernando is faster than you. Stop whining!

  12. BasCB (@bascb) said on 29th October 2011, 20:21

    Ok, sure, nothing wrong with looking at improving that point for next year so it will be as safe as possibly while being enough of a disencouragement of driving like Massa did.

    But really, is there any chance the suspension would have broken had he not been next to the track as often as he did? Then Ferrari should have a look at the strength of their wishbones to make sure they can cope with driving like that or tell their drivers to keep more to the track.

  13. AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 29th October 2011, 22:16

    An entirely unnecessary situation for Massa to be in today. No track should ever put drivers in any sort of danger, regardless of whether or not you think they should be ‘punished’ for taking a corner incorrectly. The stewards are there to punish the drivers if they believe an unfair advantage is gained.

    However, that said, this is of course a learning curve for both drivers and track operators so I would expect that many bugs will be ironed out by next year.

  14. electrolite (@electrolite) said on 29th October 2011, 22:38

    Sure he cut the corner too much, and hopefully he’s learnt his lesson.

    However, this mere kerb/bump did actually destroy part of his car, and indeed turn a driver into a passenger and lead to an accident which could have been worse. It’s another expense, too – pennies for Ferrari, of course, but unnecessary and a waste none the less.

    • Mash27 said on 29th October 2011, 23:26

      If he doesn’t have an issue with driving on street circuits with walls and armco for obstruction he shouldn’t have a problem with a bump off the curbs.

  15. manatcna (@manatcna) said on 30th October 2011, 0:41

    Driver error.

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