Fresh calls for Yas Marina track changes

F1 Fanatic round-up

In the round-up: Felipe Massa wants Yas Marina to copy India’s F1 track.

Links

Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Massa wants track changes in Abu Dhabi (Autosport)

“In my opinion they need to change a little bit corner seven, maybe even make it wider like in India.”

Lewis Hamilton contradicts Martin Whitmarsh’s Jenson Button showdown remark (The Independent)

“Of course we both want to win, but it doesn’t matter whether [Jenson Button] or I get it, we still end up on a high. That’s my view anyway.”

F1 needs Hamilton (Daily Telegraph)

David Coulthard: “Lewis is wrong to call that achievement ‘irrelevant’. I can understand what he means ? that he has bigger problems to worry about ? but as drivers our first duty is to beat our team-mate and Jenson has done that, fairly and squarely, when many said he wouldn?t have a prayer.”

Williams testing 2012 exhausts (ESPN)

“Valtteri Bottas is in the FW33 for the first time, and his car has the top-exiting exhaust layout visible as Williams becomes the first team to test exhausts conforming to 2012 regulations.”

Max Chilton via Twitter

“Great day, I now have 81 F1 laps under my belt and I finished sixth for the day but had no KERS so really happy!”

Stefano Coletti via Twitter

“Very good day today with Toro Rosso! team was happy about my performance! Now resting and half day again on Thursday.”

F1 Fanatic via Twitter

“Jan Charouz will also drive for HRT during the three-day test at Abu Dhabi.”

Lawyer declines F1 trial appearance (FT, registration required)

British lawyer Steven Mullens has declined to appear in the trial of German banker Gerhard Gribkowsky, at which Bernie Ecclestone appeared last week, by “reserving his right not to have to answer questions that might cause him to incriminate himself”. The FT adds: “Mullens was an adviser to Bambino and also served as a director in some of the companies that controlled F1.”

Vijay Mallya via Twitter

“Spent six hours with the media today to share facts about Kingfisher Airlines. Was pushed, shoved and yelled at in a frenzy to get a bite. No lunch, no coffee, not a moments rest for five hours. Was virtually accosted by a frenzied media. Finally they started assaulting each other.”

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Comment of the day

Nick T thinks Williams won’t be down for long:

This team grabbed a pole, a fourth place, about 20 top tens and outpaced all the mid-field teams just last year.

They tried something radical in an attempt to contend with the big budget teams and it cost them the ability to even be in the mid pack.

However, they?ve got an ex-long time McLaren chief designer on board among others, strong infrastructure/facilities and probably the fifth-biggest budget. I’d venture to say that a team who could at the very least run consistently in the top ten is of great value and won?t simply disappear.

At worst, I could see them being sold and changing names or adding a name. Lets not forget that besides the heavy hitters, Williams actually has other business ventures that produce real income and their brand name is worth a lot when it comes to expanding those business ventures. So, they?d be an attractive team to buy and keep the name/heritage for someone looking to get into F1.
Nick T

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79 comments on Fresh calls for Yas Marina track changes

  1. Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 0:05

    “In my opinion they need to change a little bit corner seven, maybe even make it wider like in India.”

    My concern is that the organisers in Abu Dhabi are just going to look at the post-race statistics and say “Yes, there was a lot of overtaking! The problem has been fixed! We don’t need to spend one red cent fixing it!” rather than looking at how that overtaking came about.

    • James_mc (@james_mc) said on 16th November 2011, 0:08

      I’m surprised Massa didn’t simply ask for less kerbs…

    • Matty said on 16th November 2011, 0:23

      I’ll say there is nothing wrong with the circuit. I think it’s team & driver attitude’s towards overtaking, ie they just don’t want overtaking. They have deicided that this system of lets design a car, then if your car sits on pole race after race, great, if not, tuff. Overtaking? No. You go back and design a car thats gets pole race after race.

      • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 0:39

        I’ll say there is nothing wrong with the circuit.

        You do know what the circuit looks like, right? Pointless, fiddly and slow corners, endless sequences of second-gear bends, and the whole thing being designed around the architecture rather than having the architecture being built around the circuit.

        I think it’s team & driver attitude’s towards overtaking, ie they just don’t want overtaking.

        Then why did they specifically ask Pirelli to produce tyres that could aid in overtaking? Why did they introduce the DRS?

        They have deicided that this system of lets design a car, then if your car sits on pole race after race, great, if not, tuff. Overtaking? No. You go back and design a car thats gets pole race after race.

        There is only one car that can actually do that – the Red Bull RB7 – and the other teams know it. Why would they throw good money after bad trying to make a qualifying car when they’re all too aware that Red Bull will always have an answer for them? It makes far more sense to concentrate on race performance instead.

        • timi (@timi) said on 16th November 2011, 1:29

          Sure it’s a pretty bad circuit, but it seems people are forgetting the main reason for the lack of overtaking.. and that is the aerodynamic specifications all cars must follow.
          Take us back to 2007/2008 rules and even Abu Dhabi would be exhilarating, we wouldn’t need DRS, KERS, or pirellis stupid tyres.

          That’s the real solution to this overtaking debacle.. At least it is in my opinion :p

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 2:04

            Take us back to 2007/2008 rules and even Abu Dhabi would be exhilarating, we wouldn’t need DRS, KERS, or pirellis stupid tyres.

            Actually, the pre-2009 regulations allowed teams even more freedom in their designs. Although the cars produce lots of downforce through the use of off-throttle blown diffusers, the 2012 ban means that there will be significantly less. The pre-2009 regulations allowed unprecedented levels of downforce by allowing all manner of aerodynamic devices on the bodywork.

          • John H (@john-h) said on 16th November 2011, 8:46

            Why is Montreal such a great race every year then?

          • Exactly PM, which is why it would be easier to follow cars if we just went to the pre2009 regulations.

            Speaking of.. why did those rules get changed? I understand some of the ground effects was due to safety, but why restrict the body work??

          • Dobin1000 (@dobin1000) said on 16th November 2011, 11:32

            Before 2009 cars had so many barge boards, chineys and funnels on the bodywork that it was much more difficult for a car to follow closely – the reason they were banned was to try and make overtaking more likely! I don’t know how you come to the conclusion that bringing them back would make things better.

            Ground affects were effectively banned (by introducing the ‘plank’ and minimum ride heights) way before 2009. The bodywork was restricted and the wings raised to try and enable cars to follow closely, but it was never going to solve the problem because when the majority of the grip is from downforce any reduction (from following another car) is going to hurt much more than if the majority of the grip was mechanical.

        • Matty said on 16th November 2011, 1:29

          How did the Pirelli rubber work out on the weekend ? I did’nt think tyres played much of a role at all really, certainly not in regard to overtaking. DRS. If you knew that you had DRS as a feature to help you overtake, would you then go and set up the the car in such a manner that with DRS activated during the race, the car hits the rev limiter, obviously restricting top speed and obviously counteracting the effect of DRS. I dont think I would, IF I wanted to use DRS as an aid to overtaking another car.

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 2:29

            How did the Pirelli rubber work out on the weekend ? I did’nt think tyres played much of a role at all really, certainly not in regard to overtaking.

            Pirelli have gradually and subtly changed their compounds as the season has gone on. It’s to keep the teams on their toes. A lot of the data they had on the Pirellis at Abu Dhabi was based on the extra tyre tests that were held after last year’s race, which used the tyres that experienced a high level of degradation. Pirelli deliberately brought a different make-up of tyre to invaldate all that data, forcing the teams to start the weekend blind, gathering information about the tyres through the practice sessions.

    • Pinball said on 16th November 2011, 2:16

      In my opinion what they really need to do regarding the track layout is:
      1) Change is the idea of having two DRS zones back to back, all that happens is that Car B passes Car A, in the first DRS zone, and then Car A passes Car B in the second DRS zone, so no net change to position, and
      2) Where the straights are short provide higher speed larger radius corners to introduce more of a challenge, rather than the extremely tight low speed corners that are too common at Yas Marina.

      And what they need to do with the cars, is remove the aerodynamic disturbance from the rear of Car A, that prevents Car B from getting close enough to attack on the slower corners. Maybe a rule change requiring all teams to submit diffuser designs for FIA approval prior to the season would help. The FIA could then test the diffusers in a wind tunnel to determine whether any teams design exceeds a predefined wind disturbance, and if so require said team to provide a revised design. The aerodynamic issue is a major issue in the potential for passing. If they had a Formula Ford race around Yas Marina, you’d see a lot more proper passing for position, simply because they can race closer to each other.

      • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 2:26

        Where the straights are short provide higher speed larger radius corners to introduce more of a challenge, rather than the extremely tight low speed corners that are too common at Yas Marina.
        The problem with that is that there is no room to reprofile corners.

        • Pinball said on 16th November 2011, 3:03

          That’s true. I’m more thinking if they could go back in time before they started to build anything. I feel that any sort retrospective changes they can make now wil only result in minor improvements.

          In this day and age you have to wonder whether track designers test their track virtually – the design would be modeled in 3d, surely it’s not a huge stretch to take a 3d engineering model and convert it to something that can be used in say rFactor just to see how the circuit flows and what not.

      • Nah, go the other way. Making a tight track more open will just give us another middle of the road circuit. By all means look for ways to make more overtaking possible, but let’s have a circuit that is a little bit of a different challenge eh?

  2. electrolite (@electrolite) said on 16th November 2011, 0:07

    Great COTD! Their performance last year, and experimentation this year…my sentiments entirely.

  3. Icthyes (@icthyes) said on 16th November 2011, 0:09

    I’m surprised this mini cold war between Whitmarsh and Hamilton hasn’t been more talked about, really.

    I have a theory that Whitmarsh sees Button very much as his man, whereas Lewis was Ron Dennis’ prodigy. Now MW is Team Principal, he wants to make his own mark in McLaren history and come out of Dennis’ shadow (he’s yet to win a WDc or WCC as top man, after all). I’m not suggesting there’s any material favouritism going on, but sometimes Whitmarsh speaks about Hamilton as if he drives for another team, or is the #2 rookie. I get the sense that Hamilton is starting to pick up on an atmosphere in the team we might not be privy to – and making sure MW knows about it too, not unlike (and rather ironically) Alonso before him. Maybe there was more to Hamilton’s words about his personal environment than at first sight…

    • Icthyes (@icthyes) said on 16th November 2011, 0:12

      And of course, if Hamilton has gone from golden boy to being “just” a driver, then that’s an environment he’ll have to get used to – but the adjustment will have been hard and tough on any driver. Again, rather like Alonso’s move to McLaren!

      • electrolite (@electrolite) said on 16th November 2011, 0:17

        There was a (purely) coincidental performance drop at the start of 2009 when Dennis walked out and Whitmarsh came in, too. Where Mclaren were at the back and Brawn kicking ass. Without even realising it Hamilton could have attributed this complete change of fortune to this change in authority. All speculation and theory though…I for one have never really bought into what you suppose above.

    • Outsider said on 16th November 2011, 3:21

      We all know that McLaren, for all that they profess about drive equality, have always favoured one driver more than the other, especially during the Ron days.

      There was an Interview with DC on ITV back in 08, he was being quizzed about the previous year’s Alonso vs Mclaren saga. I was surprised when DC acknowledged that he understood the situation that Alonso was in! Apparently DC was treated as if drives for a different team as well.

      • yes DC has often commented that at driver briefings ron would sit with mika and say what are ‘we’ doing, and then look over to DC side and say what are ‘they’ doing.

        And lets not forget china 07 ‘we were racing Alonso’

    • Oliver said on 16th November 2011, 10:49

      I keep saying this, Withmarsh is the problem at Mclaren.
      For whatever reason, he is pushing Button as being superior to Hamilton, even when the reality is not the case.

      Hamilton has had a disaster of a season, while Button has had a wonderful season.
      But now, they both have 3 wins, each and button is only the equivalent of a win plus a few points ahead of Hamilton.
      Now if we look at all the points Hamilton has lost and races he has failed to finish, the number of times, the team had failed to get him out during qualifying, or messed up his race effort, then I am afraid to say that, I can only conclude that Button is a mediocre driver. Because if Hamilton has had a terrible season and has equal number of wins to Button and also this close in the points, then the argument hailing Button’s season, looks ridiculous in the face of facts.

      Jenson gets close to Hamilton’s qualifying time, and it is being hailed as a great effort!!!.. For heaven’s sakes, is Button a disabled driver?
      The reason Ron Dennis couldn’t stand Mansell was because he Mansell would go on and on and on about all he has achieved in racing. Why should a driver be defensive about his ability, and seek to always remind by word of mouth how good he is?
      This is what is being done for Button all the time. The team boss, the race commentators, even those who respond here, get defensive about Button’s ability and have a ton on explanations why this and that.

      Well its good, Button has defeated Hamilton and it will go down in history. But if Mclaren believe their own hype, then it shows how they are willing to accept second place than go for victory. Withmarsh is betting on the wrong horse to get him a championship. Instead of ensuring both drivers are running in an optimised fashion, he is focused on captain slow.

      He might as well bring in Parffet to replace Hamilton, at lease we’d have 2 reliable race drivers.

      • Cacarella (@cacarella) said on 16th November 2011, 14:02

        I can only conclude that Button is a mediocre driver. Because if Hamilton has had a terrible season and has equal number of wins to Button and also this close in the points, then the argument hailing Button’s season, looks ridiculous in the face of facts.

        Or… you could conclude that if Button is a mediocre driver, didn’t make any bad calls throughout the season, and scored more points than his teammate, then Lewis just might be a sub-mediocre driver.
        But we can’t say that can we? so we say things like “Lewis is having a bad year”. So why can’t we say “Jenson is having a good year” instead of ridiculous and baseless accusations that the team backs one driver more than the other.

        It’s time you face the very apparent fact that your golden boy has been beaten by a mediocre driver and
        in 2008, your golden boy was 1 corner away from losing the title to a mediocre driver.

    • I don’t think it’s as serious as you say, @icthyes, but it’s an interesting theory. Honestly when I read Whitmarsh’s comments I don’t see any “attack” to Lewis, but he always ends up contradicting/explaining his view, which suggests me he isn’t exactly as happy as he used to be and that he doesn’t have the authority he used to have when Alonso, and Kovalainen mostly, were his team mates.

    • damonsmedley (@damonsmedley) said on 21st November 2011, 17:07

      @Icthyes

      I wouldn’t say (or I hope it’s not the case) that Whitmarsh favours Button over Hamilton, but I can see that this year, he would be quite frustrated with Lewis. I quite like Martin, actually. He’s always got a lot of time for the media and wears a nice smile, and I don’t think he’s selfish enough to want Button to beat Hamilton for the reasons you mentioned.

      Lewis has had a terribly inconsistent season and he’s caused plenty of controversy with his public outbursts. I think his sporadic form and need for maintenance is the thing Whitmarsh would be finding irritating this year, and nothing more. If Hamilton can drive like he did in 2010, Whitmarsh would treat him accordingly.

  4. Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 16th November 2011, 0:10

    Good point by Coulthard. When Button went to Mclaren everyone said “god, he’s gonna be destroyed there by Lewis”. 2 years have gone, and he beat him fair and square.

    It’s not the end of the world, but it’s certainly something.

    • Oliver said on 16th November 2011, 10:27

      Coulthard didn’t have the fighting edge, his comments can’t be taken seriously. He was an average driver, what did he expect. Coulthard deliberately made himself the number 2.
      Ron had a bond with Mika because he came close to dying. Also, Mika had charisma and talent.
      Ron Dennis likes a driver who will challenge both him and the car, not someone who will settle for less.
      Withmarsh on the other hand, likes drivers who make excuses, and when they don’t, he makes excuses for them.

  5. Calum (@calum) said on 16th November 2011, 0:11

    Abu Dhabi was better this year, but it still needs to be changed. If they count positions moved up or down after each lap rather than ‘overtakes’ the number would be much lower given the repass was almost always a given.

    If they want to think about stealing a section from India, take the multi apex turn and put it in to replace 11,12,13!

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 0:16

      David Coulthard said during the commentary that they were looking at widening the entry to some of the corners, like in India. Martin Brundle countered that a better solution would be to widen the exit. But I don’t think there’s room to do it in Abu Dhabi, and it doesn’t really address the problems of the actual layout.

    • Scalextric (@scalextric) said on 16th November 2011, 2:31

      One could argue that the circuit is just fine. Watch this.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=p377YmOUEgY

      • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 3:17

        Seeing that, I reckon Formula 1 should maybe look as a semi-spec/customer series. Any team wanting to put their chassis on the market would have to submit the final plans for their car by a certain date. Any team wanting to buy a customer chassis would then go through the FIA. This is to limit what is bought and sold – once a team buys a chassis, that’s it. They cannot get anything else from the team that sold it, and must develop it on their own. So, while the cars would be largely identical at the start of the season, by about a third of the way through, they will be wildly different.

        • bosyber (@bosyber) said on 16th November 2011, 8:58

          Let’s first see how something like that works out in indycars with the customer aero packages. Even if it does, for me the diverse solutions teams come to (despite the restrictive rules) is a part of the appeal of F1. And we already have GP2 anyway.

  6. MVEilenstein (@mveilenstein) said on 16th November 2011, 0:19

    Does anyone see the irony in forcing the teams to run a less efficient and more wasteful exhaust system? When F1 has made “green” technology their cause célèbre and selling point these days?

    Rather than turning waste gas into something useful and performance-enhancing, they are forced to simply expel it into the airstream. Oh sure – the teams will try anything to gleam some small downforce points from it, but it’s mostly a waste.

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 0:32

      Rather than turning waste gas into something useful and performance-enhancing, they are forced to simply expel it into the airstream.

      But the ban on off-throttle blown diffusers means that less exhaust gasses are being produced. The entire concept works because the engine keeps firing and keeps producing exhaust gasses even when the driver backs off the throttle. While routing exhaust gasses out into the atmosphere might be inefficient, there will be less gasses produced in 2012 than there were this year. And if the FIA lets teams use that exhaust gas to blow a diffuser, the teams will simply exploit it – like the way they exploited the regulations at Sivlerstone, finding ways around the ban by claiming they needed to run extreme throttle maps to prevent terminal damage to their engines.

      • nefor (@nefor) said on 16th November 2011, 1:41

        Continuing on from PM’s comment, off throttle blown diffusers are also seriously expensive to develop. The time and money needed to make them work and continue to fiddle with them to get the most out of them has been a nightmare for the teams at the back of the grid and probably midfield too.

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 2:07

          Indeed. I think James Allen put it best at the British Grand Prix when, as correspondant for the Australian broadcaster, he said words to the effect of “the only people who really understand how the system works are within the teams themselves – the press have tried to report the issue in a way the public will understand, but we only really know a fraction of what is really going on”.

          • nefor (@nefor) said on 16th November 2011, 4:54

            Indeed, infact the problem was partly that everyone did it differently. Much like teams are always saying there is no point in copying something from a competitor because it wouldn’t work with their own own aero package knowing how one EBD works doesn’t mean you know everyone’s and likewise blowing on the Renault-Lotus will be different to the Red Bull-Renault.
            Even more frustrating for Cosworth powered teams is that they didn’t/don’t have it, certainly not earlier in the season, which is another reason for Williams problems IIRC.

    • Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 16th November 2011, 2:10

      Does anyone see the irony in forcing the teams to run a less efficient and more wasteful exhaust system?

      less efficient in terms of overall performance, perhaps. But it doesn’t waste fuel by overruning the engine during braking.

      The engine maps they are using now surely wastes a lot more fuel because of the way the blown diffuser works.

      And don’t forget the amount of heat that’s going though the rear of the car. Making all the elements suitable to work on such conditions is hard work and very costly.

      So all in all, the ban on blown diffuser is more efficient.

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 16th November 2011, 8:20

      Does anyone see the irony in forcing the teams to run a less efficient and more wasteful exhaust system?

      I don’t believe it is less efficient. Renault said earlier this year they were burning 20% more fuel with their exhaust-blown system.

      • John H (@john-h) said on 16th November 2011, 8:45

        Couldn’t they ban off-throttle blowing, but still have EBD’s on throttle? Would still be using some of the energy through the faster corners but wouldn’t burn any extra fuel?

        • bosyber (@bosyber) said on 16th November 2011, 9:04

          They originally stopped blowing the diffuser because it was making the cars unstable under breaking. To get rid of that, teams use special throttle maps.

          In order to do what you propose, they’d have to severely restrict those maps. FIA tried it for Silverstone. Now, part of the mess and complication was from doing it so suddenly with cars designed for those maps, but teams have been using special maps to cool and preserve the engine for years, all of them subtly different.

          It proved to hard to ban them, so FIA decided to then just make sure it would be pointless and went the route of mandating periscope exhausts.

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 10:36

          Couldn’t they ban off-throttle blowing, but still have EBD’s on throttle?

          Yes, they could, but teams would only find a way to exploit it.

  7. Toro Stevo (@toro-stevo) said on 16th November 2011, 2:09

    I agree with Massa’s comments, but don’t go far enough. I’d reprofile almost every corner given the chance – I don’t understand how they could spend so much money and get it so wrong. Probably because it looks like they designed the track around the V stadium, hotel and marina – not the other way around.

    But what happened to the changes that were supposed to happen to the track before this years race?

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 2:24

      But what happened to the changes that were supposed to happen to the track before this years race?

      The organisers felt that the Pirelli tyres and introduction of the DRS would address amny of the issues from 2010. Rather than spend millions of dollars updating the circuit with changes that offered no guarnatee of better racing (and with rule changes that would make it difficult to assess the success of circuit reprofiling), the organisers decided to take a more scientific approach – run the race with Pirelli and DRS for a year to get feedback on how they changed the racing at the circuit, and then introduce the necessary changes based on that feedback.

    • Hairs (@hairs) said on 16th November 2011, 7:13

      @toro-stevo Mmm, because India produced such a fascinating race, full of overtaking and… *clunk* zzzzzzzz.

      Abu Dhabi was actually better than the Indian race. And the GP2 action on the track was fantastic. Massa believes making the entries to corners wider will make for more overtaking, eh? That worked out well for letting two drivers take different lines into corners in… oh wait.

      I don’t think we need to put too much weight on the opinions of a driver who smashed up the same bollard on this track two years in a row, and smashed up his suspension on the same kerb twice in a row in the last race because he can’t judge the apex of a corner.

  8. Huron (@huron) said on 16th November 2011, 2:28

    Well, Mr. Saward was right about VJs failing businesses.

    Looks a certain comment monopolizers owes him an apology.

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 3:24

      I owe him nothing. Saward may have been right about the details of the article, but he has had a long-standing grudge against Mallya because Mallya dropped Liuzzi from the team at the start of the year. Saward has taken every opportunity to attack Mallya, and doubtless would have run the story, even if Kingfisher was not in trouble. He’s clearly got an ulterior motive whenever he writes about Vijay Mallya, and being right about the details does not excuse him for his unprofessional behaviour.

      • bosyber (@bosyber) said on 16th November 2011, 9:09

        He does seem to have a grudge, and perhaps it taints his tone and attitude on FI, and it might influence what he looks at for that team (like interesting deals etc.), but he’s professional enough not to let it influence the final content of his posts once he has something to report, in my opinion.

      • Hamish (@hamish) said on 16th November 2011, 11:13

        Saward does have it in for Mallya, yet you have it in for Saward and pass comments regarding his articles just for the sake of it.

        Hypocrisy anyone?

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 11:32

          And, ironically enough, you have it in for me. I don’t think I’ve ever seen you say one positive thing to me – instead, you’re usually shooting off about some flaw or other in my posts, and going out of your way to criticise. So, ironically enough, you hypocritically accuse me of hypocracy.

          • Hamish (@hamish) said on 16th November 2011, 11:45

            Not at all. I don’t have it in for you – I’ve even invited you out for coffee numerous times. For the sake of education I do point out when people are incorrect or not completely accurate.

            You can draw your own conclusions if I’m replying to you frequently.

          • Hamish (@hamish) said on 16th November 2011, 11:49

            Heres a good example – you spelt hypocrisy wrong, and you’re an english teacher.

            By me pointing this out not only are you benefiting, but your students will also somewhere down the line.

            And yet you think I have it in for you?

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 13:15

            For the sake of education I do point out when people are incorrect or not completely accurate.

            That’s all you ever do. And you do it in the most acerbic way you can. Almost exclusively so. I wouldn’t call that an education. I’d call that a Napoleon complex.

            Heres a good example – you spelt hypocrisy wrong, and you’re an english teacher.

            Which would only be a problem if we had to sit spelling tests when we apply for teaching positions.

            PS – If you really want to go three rounds over spelling and grammar, then you should probably know that you didn’t use an apostrophe in “heres”, and you didn’t capitalise the “e” in “english”.

          • Hamish (@hamish) said on 16th November 2011, 19:27

            Wow, PM saying someone has a Napoleon complex, back to that point about hypocrisy…..

            Mate I’m more than happy to do three rounds of spelling with you. Please, name the time and the place and we can go from there. I, like many other people would love to meet you. I’ve always had it in my mind that you are something along these lines:

            http://meanstock.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/super-computer-nerd.jpg

            Maybe we can get that coffee I’ve been proposing for months? You don’t really make an effort to make new friends do you?

    • David-A (@david-a) said on 16th November 2011, 4:02

      Looks a certain comment monopolizers owes him an apology.

      I assume you’re referring to a type of jailed primate?

  9. Doance (@doance) said on 16th November 2011, 2:46

    Here is the real story behind Webber’s strategy in Abu Dhabi http://i.imgur.com/N1OU3.jpg

  10. wasiF1 (@wasif1) said on 16th November 2011, 3:40

    One boring track copy things from another.

  11. Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 4:42

    Is it just me, or does Vijay Mallya come across as quite condescending in latest round of Tweets? He seems particularly critical of the media for not giving him a lunch break. Yes, he spent six hours in front of the media … but surely he should be more worried about the fact that he spent six hours in front of the media. That’s not a good sign. When Qantas’ CEO grounded the airliner recently, he did not spend six hours in front of the media despite successfully becoming the most-hated person in Australia (and if you know anything about Australian politics, then you know just how big an achievement this is). If Michel Mol has any sense, he’ll use his 10% stake in the team to join together with the Sahara Group and squeeze Mallya out.

    Do we have any Indian members here? Or anyone who speaks Hindi? Because a thought has occurred to me: the Italian teams use Italian team names (“Scuderia”). The French teams (used to) use French names (“Equipe”). So, maybe an Indian team could use an Indian name. “Grand Prix” is French for “Grand Prize”, so I wonder what the Hindi translation of “Sahara Grand Prix” is. I managed to find an online English-Hindi translator that didn’t translate into Hindi script, and I’ve come up with a few possible ideas – but, not knowing the grammatical rules that govern the language, I can’t be sure if they’re right (and knowing my luck, they’re probably offensive):

    - Sahara Vishaal Inaam
    - Sahara Vrihat Inaam
    - Sahara Badhiya Inaam
    - Sahara Mahaan Inaam

    Is there anyone here who might be able to offer some insight?

  12. sushant008 (@sushant008) said on 16th November 2011, 5:51

    @PM
    If “Grand Prix” is French for “Grand Prize”, then it is ”Vishal Inaam” for hindi…but i dont really agree with your idea..If Mallya is out of the team (may be possible as he is in a big financial turmoil right now), then the team should go with simply ”Sahara F1″ or “SaharaIndia F1″ which sounds cool..but if you go for a word like scuderia (racing horses stable) in hindi, you should call it “Tabela Sahara F1″, which for me isnt cool..

    Interesting to note that, here Mallya wants 100 percent foreign investment in Aviation business in india..i wonder why he’s saying that..looks like his ”foreign investment” is the money he collected from F1, is it?

    Is really the business of “Force India” making profit???

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 6:09

      If “Grand Prix” is French for “Grand Prize”, then it is ”Vishal Inaam” for hindi…but i dont really agree with your idea..If Mallya is out of the team (may be possible as he is in a big financial turmoil right now), then the team should go with simply ”Sahara F1″ or “SaharaIndia F1″ which sounds cool..but if you go for a word like scuderia (racing horses stable) in hindi, you should call it “Tabela Sahara F1″, which for me isnt cool..

      Well, I just think the team needs a little bit of character. When Mallya created the team, he really played up the “We’re Indian and we’re in Formula 1!” angle, but then he named the team
      “Force India”, which doesn’t sound particularly Indian at all. Not to my ears.

      So, if not Hindi, how about a Bengali or Urdu name? (Sahara’s Wikipedia page gives its name in Hindi, Urdu and Bengali.)

  13. John H (@john-h) said on 16th November 2011, 8:26

    You’d have thought Jenson had beaten Hamilton by 100 points the way each driver’s seasons have been described.

    Has Button really been that great?

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th November 2011, 8:51

      You were watching in Canada, right?

      • Aussie Rod (@aussierod) said on 16th November 2011, 9:46

        Wasn’t that the race where he was out-qualified by nearly half a second, started down in 7th, collided with his team mate, collided with Alonso and was lapped..?

        If he didn’t luck into 4 or 5 safety cars he probably wouldn’t have even been able to un-lap himself. And DRS aided many of this passes.

        Vettel dominated 99.99 of that weekend, but everyone only ever remembers the last lap.

    • bosyber (@bosyber) said on 16th November 2011, 9:28

      Well, he started a bit spotty in the first half, with a win and podiums but also much lower scores, but look at his points tally in the last 8 races, a 4th place and 7 podiums among two were his 2nd and 3rd win of the season. So yes, he did pretty great, actually.

      Still, HAM has now won the same number of races this year, so if he was, say, Massa, we’d think he did pretty okay I think. But given that the collisions he had cost him high points positions and podiums which could have put him well ahead of Button, he messed up.

      Having said that, it does lend credence to him thinking that he only was beaten by Button this year because of his own issues, and that if he can cut them out, he’s way ahead of Button. The question is of course, if he can actually do that.

    • Dobin1000 (@dobin1000) said on 16th November 2011, 11:40

      He is second in the championship, in the second fastest car, beating one of the drivers in the fastest car. He has had the second best season of anyone competing in the championship – are people only allowed to say he has had a great season if he won?

  14. AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 16th November 2011, 13:55

    Good comment from Nick_T. Their car coupled with the R31 were probably the riskiest of the 2011 designs. Unfortunately neither really paid off but it’s all a learning curve I guess. I imagine they will go with something a little more conservative for next season just to try and assess where they are in the pecking order.

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