Red Bull join Ferrari in leaving FOTA

F1 Fanatic round-up

In the round-up: Red Bull announce they have also left the Formula 1 Teams’ Association.


Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Red Bull out of FOTA but still “committed to cost saving” (Adam Cooper)

Dietrich Mateschitz has a foot in both camps as Toro Rosso remains in FOTA.

Motor racing-1955 Le Mans disaster car makes $1 million (Reuters)

“An unrestored car involved in motor racing’s worst accident, at Le Mans in 1955, has sold at auction for more than $1 million after 42 years under wraps. ”

Sebastian Vettel and Michael Schumacher Q&A (Red Bull)

Sebastian Vettel: “It?s a bit different because I already won the championship in Japan and not at the last race. Still this doesn?t mean that we stopped fighting or competing. We kept fighting for wins. This is all we want, to get the maximum out of every single race.”

Brazilian Grand Prix video edit

Video from the last race of 2011.

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Comment of the day

Matt90 is not impressed with Ferrari and Red Bull leaving FOTA:

It?s sensible to have a union or collaboration of some sort in any field, especially one as commercial as F1 where money drives decisions rather than common sense or practicality. A unity of teams helped prevent ridiculous regulations coming into F1 during 2009, and I?m sure there will be a time when the teams need to be together again.

Not having the common ground of FOTA will also make the teams more bitter towards one another – see the Ferrari/McLaren spat of previous years, which seems to have cooled considerably in recent years.

From the forum

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to RIISE, Speed Damon and Colm!

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On this day in F1

Given the intense debate around overtaking this year, and the role the new Pirelli tyres have played in facilitating it, it’s interesting to look back on these words from Felipe Massa five years ago.

Massa spoke after sampling the first generation of Bridgestone rubber since the end of the tyre way with Michelin, and warned that the harder, more conservative compounds would not make for good racing:

“The driving changes: there’s less grip, the tyres are harder and the car tends to slide. The braking distance got longer, you need to drive more smoothly because it’s easier to lose the back or locking the front tyres. You can’t be aggressive in the turns. This won’t help overtaking. There will be even less grip in the slipstream.”

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32 comments on Red Bull join Ferrari in leaving FOTA

  1. David-A (@david-a) said on 3rd December 2011, 0:13

    Mmm, tasty.

    Oops, sorry, I mistook FOTA for a cookie because they both crumble so easily.

  2. John H (@john-h) said on 3rd December 2011, 1:36

    This is the F1 Prisoners Dilema. FOTA was never going to survive because its always better in the short-term to put self-interest first, but the group in total would probably achieve more in the long-term by sticking together (especially in times of crisis). For example the FOTA fans forum was probably good for F1, but who is going to organise such things now?

    Personally I think it’s naive of HRT, Ferrari and Red Bull but when chasing the $ their actions are totally understandable.

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 3rd December 2011, 2:17

      @john-h – Hispania left FOTA for different reasons to Red Bull and Ferrari. Hispania left because they felt that FOTA only really represented the interests of the front-running teams. Red Bull and Ferrari left because they didn’t like the way the RRA was being handled.

      • Mike (@mike) said on 3rd December 2011, 3:36

        Red Bull and Ferrari left because they didn’t like the way the RRA was being handled.

        Both have said they are still behind cost saving.

        I don’t believe that is correct at all, I believe it is much more likely to be political wrangling. Perhaps to do with the Concorde agreement?

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 3rd December 2011, 4:49

          Both have said they are still behind cost saving.

          Both of them agreed to the ban on moveable aerodynamic parts. And both of them have had more visible movement in their parts than anybody else.

          They say they are behind cost saving, but where do they say they are behind the RRA? The left FOTA because they didn’t like the way the RRA was enforced. Why would they still honour it? They can pour all of their budgets into design and engine development, cut excess expenditure in other areas and then present it all as cost saving when they’re spending more than ever before on the design of the car.

          I think that’s what this is really about: Red Bull and Ferrari were finding ways around the RRA that gave them an advantage. When the other teams worked it out for themselves, they tried to close those loopholes, and Red Bull and Ferrari resisted with all their might. When the other teams got their way, Red Bull and Ferrari threw their toys out of their prams.

        • F1fanNL (@) said on 3rd December 2011, 12:08

          Not exactly Prisoner Monkey,

          I don’t know what Ferrari’s stance is but Red Bull doesn’t agree with the fact that there’s a limited amount of employees permitted to work on the chassis whereas a constructor who built their own engines (i.e. Mercedes) can have an unlimited amount of employees working on the engine.
          They also criticize the fact that there’s no check up on engine employees making it possible for teams who built their own engines to have extra employees working on the chassis.

          Red Bull has only been criticized of overspending once and that wasn’t done by the FOTA. As far as the FOTA is concerned Red Bull stayed in budget so Red Bull didn’t leave because of that. They left because they feel the restrictions in workforce aren’t controlled effectively.

      • John H (@john-h) said on 3rd December 2011, 11:45

        Indeed PM with regards HRT, but best to be on the inside if you want to change how things currently are, rather than leaving in some kind of protest whilst suggesting no alternative.

    • d3v0 (@d3v0) said on 3rd December 2011, 3:53

      Posting B/c prisoner’s dilemma

      Nice analogy mate :D

  3. Becken Lima (@becken-lima) said on 3rd December 2011, 1:53

    Interesting words from Massa. He is always pessimistic about changes. I remember him in the same mood after FIA announced the end of driving aids – like traction control.

    That shows Felipe main weakness, his lack of adaptability After a year of experience with Pirelli tyres, I hope he can do better in 2012.

    About Ferrari and Red Bull leaving FOTA, is amazing how almost everybody is missing the point.

    Ferrari wants to restrict aero development – their weakness -, while Red Bull knows that aero is their main strength and will not agree in any restriction in this area.

    That’s why both are leaving FOTA: they can’t agree in which area – mechanical or aero – F1 should concentrate budget restriction.

    • Adam Tate (@adam-tate) said on 3rd December 2011, 6:06

      It’s not surprising he was pessimistic about some of the changes. I’m sure most of the drivers have been in the past decade.

      The cars have less power, V10s to V8s
      Less downforce, 2008 to 2009 plus regs
      Tire changes in 2007 and then again this year.

      Drivers want cars that are as fast as possible. It’s just natural.

    • Fixy (@fixy) said on 3rd December 2011, 10:55

      Massa adapted well to Bridgestones, he took three poles and two wins in 2006.

    • AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 3rd December 2011, 19:41

      I wouldn’t have said that was a necessarily pessimistic approach, more just an observation. There is always going to be a differentiator between good and bad.

  4. It’s a bit like the Euro really…

  5. damonsmedley (@damonsmedley) said on 3rd December 2011, 4:48

    Happy birthday Carl! (@RIISE) Hope you have a terrific day.

    Happy birthday to Speed Damon and Colm as well.

  6. AdrianMorse (@adrianmorse) said on 3rd December 2011, 7:28

    Are T-cars banned by the FIA or by the RRA?

    With regard to Red Bull and Ferrari’s “commitment to cost saving”, I’m sure it’s true in a general sense, but if they can benefit from spending a bit more, using a bit more windtunnel time, or bringing more staff to races, then I’m sure they will. And other teams won’t like it (assuming there’s still a FOTA and an RRA at the start of the season).

  7. L_A_Munro said on 3rd December 2011, 9:27

    They sold that Le Mans 1955 car? What kind of sicko would buy a car that cost the lives of many!?

  8. ME4ME (@me4me) said on 3rd December 2011, 9:32

    wow, for some reason, i so much enjoy seing Vettel and Schumacher race together. They really seem like good team mates.

  9. Schumi looks like a grand pa in that pic.

    • TheBrav3 said on 3rd December 2011, 17:27

      You’ve got to be kidding i saw that picture and thought he looked at least 10 years younger, i honestly thought it was an old picture or he had had a face lift.

  10. kenneth Ntulume said on 4th December 2011, 11:11

    Get Ready for a Red-Bull road car,
    Please remember you read it here first.

  11. rikpacman (@rikpacman) said on 5th December 2011, 0:45

    Surely this means McLaren, Mercedes and the midfield teams will have to leave to be close to competitive… Costs will go up, the gap to the back will increase and the battle of the finances will begin… again!

    If, as I believe, the reasons for Ferrari and RB leaving are to spend more, test more, build better, then an interesting insight is here on James Allen’s website.

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