2011 F1 driver rankings part two: 15-6

2011 F1 season review

The second part of F1 Fanatic’s 2011 driver rankings include the ten drivers to sixth place.

The list includes Felipe Massa, Michael Schumacher and Mark Webber.

Read on for the next part of the 2011 F1 driver rankings including F1 Fanatic readers’ views.

15. Timo Glock

Timo Glock, Virgin, Monaco, 2011

Timo Glock, Virgin, Monaco, 2011

Beat team mate in qualifying 14/19
Beat team mate in race 7/10
Races finished 13/19
Laps spent ahead of team mate 534/731

After languishing at the back of the field in 2010, Glock must have been expecting better things from his second season at Virgin.

Instead the MVR-02 proved little quicker than its predecessor, and as Lotus made strides towards the midfield Glock was left with little to do other than circulate ahead of the HRTs and his team mate.

He accomplished this, regularly brought the car home and on the rare occasions there was any kind of showcase for his abilities – Monaco qualifying, for example – produced the goods.

After two seasons at Virgin you have to be impressed by Glock’s faith in the team to have opted to stick with them. On the strength of this season there’s little reason to doubt he’ll deliver when the time comes.

Fast drive in a very slow car and looked like he was struggling to keep it on track. Is unlucky in some races not to do better but the car wasn?t fast enough for him. Slowed down towards end of the season but good drive none the less.
Rdpunk

Timo Glock 2011 form guide

14. Felipe Massa

Felipe Massa, Ferrari, Montreal, 2011

Felipe Massa, Ferrari, Montreal, 2011

Beat team mate in qualifying 4/19
Beat team mate in race 2/15
Races finished 16/19
Laps spent ahead of team mate 169/1016

The statistics of Massa’s sixth season with Ferrari make for grim reading. While team mate Fernando Alonso notched up ten podiums including a win, Massa was never higher than fifth.

Given that, ranking him even as high as this could seem a tad generous. But Massa’s season was not an irredeemable disaster: he was in fine form in Canada and made some good defensive drives – including a steely resistance against Jenson Button in the season-opener, until DRS ended the contest.

Button’s team mate responded less well to Massa’s defensive style – his season featured several collisions with Lewis Hamilton in which Massa was usually the victim. Under the circumstances you have to wonder whether it was wise for his race engineer to be issuing messages to “destroy Hamilton’s race”.

Ferrari’s continued faith in Massa invites differing interpretations. Certainly they’ve had no qualms about dropping drivers mid-contract, as Kimi Raikkonen can attest. Is Massa being kept on as a sop to Alonso, or on his own merit? On the strength of the last two years the former is an increasingly persuasive explanation.

Massa scored 118 points, 139 behind Alonso and only 27 in front of Rosberg. Best finish was 5th I think, not even a podium. It won?t happen of course but I wish Ferrari buy out his contract in the winter, he?s a waste of space in the Ferrari.
TommoTHFC

Felipe Massa 2011 form guide

13. Sebastien Buemi

Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, Silverstone, 2011

Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso, Silverstone, 2011

Beat team mate in qualifying 13/19
Beat team mate in race 6/12
Races finished 14/19
Laps spent ahead of team mate 461/874

It was nip-and-tuck between the two Toro Rosso drivers, each vying with the other to hold onto a place in F1. In the end Jaime Alguersuari was narrowly ahead on points and, despite Buemi’s late-season misfortunes, that’s probably a fair reflection of their performances.

Buemi hit the ground running at the start of the season and made the first contributions to the teams’ points tally. He initially enjoyed better one-lap performance and better durability from the tyres during the races, meaning he had Alguersuari completely out-flanked.

But as the season went on the balance of power increasingly tipped in favour of his team mate. Buemi did his cause no favours with a careless collision with Nick Heidfeld in Germany.

Buemi served the team well with his dependable performances and good start to the year. But it remains to be seen whether that will be enough to safeguard his seat from Toro Rosso’s roster of young talent.

Sure, Buemi retired three times in four races (through no fault of his own). But in India, he was overtaken by Alguersuari and remained behind when he retired. In Abu Dhabi he qualified in 13th and didn?t appear to be running any quicker than his team-mate. The only chance he missed to score points was in Japan, when he was running 11th and might perhaps have edged into 9th or 10th. That would hardly him transformed his position in the standings.

Buemi should savour a season where he improved greatly, and indeed led the team for the first few races. But ultimately, the best driver won.
Alex

Sebastien Buemi 2011 form guide

12. Paul di Resta

Paul di Resta, Force India, Singapore, 2011

Paul di Resta, Force India, Singapore, 2011

Beat team mate in qualifying 9/19
Beat team mate in race 6/16
Races finished 18/19
Laps spent ahead of team mate 479/1041

Di Resta looked accomplished and confident in F1 from his very first race weekend. He went on to have an excellent debut season and in many other years would have easily been top rookie.

Most impressively for a new driver, he completed more racing laps than anyone in 2011 – 1,106 out of 1,133.

But he wasn’t just a safe pair of hands. Di Resta frequently out-qualified his team mate early in the year including an excellent sixth at his home race.

Later in the season the team tended to split strategies between their cars, di Resta using the less conservative approach. This served him well at times, such as in Singapore where he finished sixth. But more often he found himself on an inferior strategy, as in India.

Points finishes in six of the final nine races underlined a wholly credible first season in F1 for di Resta.

Definitely a star of the future but just couldn’t keep Adrian behind.
Dpod

Paul di Resta 2011 form guide

11. Jaime Alguersuari

Jaime Alguersuari, Toro Rosso, Buddh International Circuit

Jaime Alguersuari, Toro Rosso, Buddh International Circuit

Beat team mate in qualifying 6/19
Beat team mate in race 6/12
Races finished 16/19
Laps spent ahead of team mate 413/874

Alguersuari’s season didn’t really start until he’d figured out how to make the 2011-spec tyres work well with the STR6. Once he did that, he gave Toro Rosso their best results of the season with a pair of seventh places in Italy and Korea.

He might have done even better from sixth on the grid at Spa – his best-ever qualifying position – had he not been shunted by Bruno Senna at the first corner.

Alguersuari had a tough lesson in the politics of Red Bull when he received a dressing-down from Helmut Marko having failed to get out of Sebastian Vettel’s way during practice in Korea. He did nothing wrong besides mildly inconvenience Marko’s favourite son, and hopefully it won’t compromise his future in the sport.

Took his time to get with it this year but when he did, he did so with a bang. Excellent second half of the season and looks to be maturing into a very solid all around package.

Better than Buemi? I?m not sure, but I think he has brighter future. Just a hunch.
Dan Thorn

Jaime Alguersuari 2011 form guide

10. Sergio Perez

Sergio Perez, Sauber, Suzuka, 2011

Sergio Perez, Sauber, Suzuka, 2011

Beat team mate in qualifying 11/18
Beat team mate in race 4/11
Races finished 13/17
Laps spent ahead of team mate 353/802

Perez got his F1 career off to a bright start and it might have been an ever better year for him but for his crash in Monaco.

He had just reached Q3 for the first time in his career when he lost control of his car heading into the harbour chicane and made sickeningly heavy side-on contact with the barrier

Although he was unharmed, he missed the next two races and said it took him until the Hungarian Grand Prix to be back at his best. Arguably, this deprived him of some of the best opportunities to make use of the C30, which declined in performance later in the season.

There were a few typical rookie mistakes along the way – not least in China, where he picked up a pair of penalties – but these were largely eclipsed by some singularly impressive performances.

He should have scored points in his first race, where he led his team mate home, only for both to be disqualified on a technicality. He had a season-best finish of seventh at Silverstone and shrugged off illness to take eighth at Suzuka. Sauber snapped him up for another season early in the year and he is already being tipped as a future Ferrari driver.

Great start to the season, shown great qualifying pace, a real shame about the Monaco crash putting him back when the car was at its strongest.
Jake

Sergio Perez 2011 form guide

9. Adrian Sutil

Adrian Sutil, Force India, Nurburgring, 2011

Adrian Sutil, Force India, Nurburgring, 2011

Beat team mate in qualifying 10/19
Beat team mate in race 10/16
Races finished 17/19
Laps spent ahead of team mate 562/1041

Sutil’s performances at Force India this year seemed to improve as doubts over his future at the team grew. His rookie team mate gave him more than a few problems early in the season, particularly in qualifying.

The more mature, less crash-prone Sutil we saw in 2010 was still much in evidence. His best results were a pair of sixth-placed finishes at home and – in timely fashion – in the final race of the season.

The latter was enough to put him ahead of Vitaly Petrov in the drivers’ championship. The question now is whether he’s done enough to convince Vijay Mallya to keep him on for a sixth year at the same address.

With di Resta?s impressive first races against his troubled start, I was concerned for him. But he grew stronger race after race and now I have to admit that Vijay Mallya and not Luca di Montezemolo should want three cars for each team!
Cristian

Adrian Sutil 2011 form guide

8. Heikki Kovalainen

Heikki Kovalainen, Lotus, Istanbul, 2011

Heikki Kovalainen, Lotus, Istanbul, 2011

Beat team mate in qualifying 17/19
Beat team mate in race 9/12
Races finished 14/19
Laps spent ahead of team mate 623/867

Which driver dominated his team mate most completely in 2011? You could make strong cases for Fernando Alonso or Sebastian Vettel. Kovalainen certainly deserves a mention in the same breath, having routed Jarno Trulli this year.

A 16-2 margin of superiority in qualifying (Trulli missed one race) is only the beginning of the story. Kovalainen usually finished ahead of his team mate in the races and often by half a minute or more.

Kovalainen was the only one of the two to make it into Q2, which he did on three occasions. Perhaps most impressively, he beat Vitaly Petrov’s Renault in a straight fight in Singapore.

On this form, Kovalainen looks best-placed to bring the team into the midfield in 2012.

Really impressive. Demolished Trulli even more comprehensively than last year. Drove supremely, placing the Lotus where it had no right to be. If there was any opportunity to get into Q2, he snatched it.

His race pace was so close to the back of the midfield and he was at times genuinely competitive with a Williams. Was always positive and looked happy in his environment which can go a long way.
Silverkeg

Heikki Kovalainen 2011 form guide

7. Michael Schumacher

Michael Schumacher, Mercedes, Spa-Francorchamps, 2011

Michael Schumacher, Mercedes, Spa-Francorchamps, 2011

Beat team mate in qualifying 2/17
Beat team mate in race 6/13
Races finished 14/19
Laps spent ahead of team mate 258/873

Schumacher’s second season back in F1 was a marked improvement over the first – at least on race days.

Qualifying remained a weakness – he only started ahead of Rosberg twice, and on one occasion that was because Rosberg’s car had failed in qualifying.

But Schumacher made up for that with some meteoric starts. He made a net gain of 27 places on the first lap during the course of the season, more than any other driver.

Starting further back meant he was more prone to midfield scraps: he collided with Petrov in Turkey and Valencia. But as he got closer to the front he started to look more like the Schumacher of old.

In Canada he was in contention for the podium before Jenson Button and Mark Webber used DRS to demote him. He claimed from 24th to fifth in Belgium – aided, it must be said, by the safety car and a first-lap crash – and fended off Hamilton brilliantly for lap after lap at Monza.

This is what we expected when Schumacher began his comeback. Some disappointing mistakes and still not as quick as he used to be ?ǣ but great racecraft in Canada and at Monza, and an amazing ability to spot gaps off the starting line.

I’d love to see him with a podium or two next year, but I fear we may already have seen the best of his comeback.
Alex

Michael Schumacher 2011 form guide

6. Mark Webber

Mark Webber, Red Bull, Interlagos, 2011

Mark Webber, Red Bull, Interlagos, 2011

Beat team mate in qualifying 3/19
Beat team mate in race 2/17
Races finished 18/19
Laps spent ahead of team mate 112/1030

Having spent the last few races of 2010 in Vettel’s shadow, that trend continued for most of 2011 for Webber.

He seemed to have the worst of both worlds when it came to tyre management: he couldn’t extract enough performance over a single lap in qualifying and tended to take too much life out of the tyre in longer stints. His starts were also a considerable weakness.

Webber managed a trio of pole positions in the middle of the season and had the upper hand over Vettel at the Nurburgring, but otherwise his team mate ran away with things.

Webber’s racecraft remained a strong suit of his, despite having a car that often lacked the straight-line speed necessary to make many passes. His move on Alonso at Spa was breathtakingly brave and he battled through from 18th to third in China.

But ultimately he fell too far short of making the most of what was available to him. But for an inherited win in Brazil he would have ended the year fourth.

Did nothing special all year but was still constantly up there in the points without being race winner until Brazil. Struggled a lot with the tyres and then the de-motivation of seeing his team mate dominate many Grands Prix. Good drive at Brazil and I felt he could have taken Vettel if there wasn?t a gearbox problem.
Rdpunk

Mark Webber 2011 form guide

2011 F1 season review

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Images (C) Virgin Racing, Ferrari spa, Red Bull/Getty images, Force India/Sutton, Red Bull/Getty images, Sauber, Force India/Sutton, Team Lotus, Mercedes, Red Bull/Getty images

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152 comments on 2011 F1 driver rankings part two: 15-6

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  1. Andy G (@toothpickbandit) said on 12th December 2011, 16:06

    5. Rosberg
    4. Hamilton
    3. Alonso
    2. Button
    1. Vettel

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 12th December 2011, 16:08

      @toothpickbandit Is that your own view or a prediction?

      • graigchq (@graigchq) said on 12th December 2011, 16:54

        i think i’ll go along with Andy G’s prediction here. Jenson is by far the best of the rest after Vettel, Alonso just inching Hamilton, largely due to Hamilton’s own mistakes and hot-headedness. Fifth for Rosberg is a good representation of an otherwise quiet year for him

      • Andy G (@toothpickbandit) said on 12th December 2011, 17:01

        Both ;)

      • When i saw first few lines i couldn’t believe that you put Alonso out of top 5. But it seems some typing mistake.
        “The list includes Felipe Massa, Michael Schumacher and Fernando Alonso.”

      • McGregski (@mcgregski) said on 13th December 2011, 10:39

        There’s a lot of debate here about who should be where… but for this to be a true “Driver Ranking article” then the top 12 should really be the top driver from each team with the slower driver in the lower 12. The car needs to be discounted across the board, I say this even though I’m a Hamilton fan but as the slower of the two McLarens he should be less than 12th.

        My top 15 view would be:

        1. Vettel (not by choice but can’t say otherwise)
        2. Button
        3. Alonso
        4. Kovalainen
        5. Alguersuari
        6. Rosberg
        7. Sutil
        8. Glock
        9. Perez
        10. Petrov
        11. Barrichello
        12. Riccardo
        13. Hamilton
        14. Webber
        15. Massa

        • stanmikeson said on 13th December 2011, 14:45

          What are you drinking, I’d like some of that.
          But seriously looking at your top 15 I haven’t laughed so hard in ages, thanks.

          • zimkazimka (@zimkazimka) said on 13th December 2011, 16:31

            actually that makes perfect sense, since the drivers are EXPECTED to perform to a certain degree with the car they got. so, despite Hamilton scoring lots of points, he did not do nearly as good with the car he got as, say, Barichello. excellent scoring McGregski!

        • @McGregski not sure about ricciardo on this list, but the rest seems better placed than Keith’s (sorry Keith, but was webber really the 6th best driver this year? i’m a fan of webber, but he really didn’t perform this season)

    • Enigma (@enigma) said on 12th December 2011, 16:20

      @toothpickbandit
      I think Alonso will be in front of Button. He nearly beat him on points in a much slower car.

    • dam00r (@dam00r) said on 12th December 2011, 17:24

      I actually think that Rosberg will be nr.1 on the list.
      1. Rosberg
      2. Vettel
      3. Button
      4. Alonso
      5. Hamilton

      • Alonso VASTLY outdrove his car and trounced his teammate, thats at least a top three performance. Vettel outclassed the entire field, his teammate more than anyone (Massa’s numbers are better than Webber’s) which is a clear #1-2 unless another driver really stepped up. Therefore, this turns on whether Rosberg really stepped up? I dont think so. He didnt step up as much as both button OR alonso did in inferior cars, and he let Schumi pass him in Belgium. That being said, he was machismo in taking the lead. I cant justify a top 3 with Rosberg, let alone the top step.

        • Outsider said on 13th December 2011, 7:51

          ..but the only reason why Alonso trounced his team mate was because Ferrari were intentionally slowing Massa’s car down mate. It also makes Alonso look like he’s outdriving a dog of a car.

          Thats what most people on this site would tell you.

    • KeeleyObsessed (@keeleyobsessed) said on 12th December 2011, 17:52

      Personally I’d swap Hamilton and Rosberg around.. Hamilton hasn’t impressed this year, which is a shame (as I’ve said before) because he is probably one of the best drivers out there…

    • Estesark (@estesark) said on 12th December 2011, 18:00

      I agree with @toothpickbandit (Andy G)’s predictions. If it were my job to rank the top five, that’s how I’d have them too.

  2. Andy Redden (@andyredden-on-f1) said on 12th December 2011, 16:15

    At the top you have said Alonso is in this section, he isn’t however…

    • brxtr (@broxter) said on 12th December 2011, 16:17

      Indeed, I was in shock at that decision until I realised it was an error.

    • Yeah. Also, Kovalainen never made it into Q3.

      I think Webber is too high up – I think most drivers could have achieved what he did in a RB7. Kovalainen had a much better season than Webber, for example.

      My opinion on (and prediction of) the top 5:

      1) Vettel
      2) Button
      3) Alonso
      4) Rosberg
      5) Hamilton

      • OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 12th December 2011, 17:30

        Yeah, when I read Kova into Q3 and Alonso on THIS section, I thought for a flashy moment i was reading “The Sun” instead of F1F.
        So I just hope the final ranking would not have any mistakes. Well whatever we’re all human.
        I’d like to see:
        5.Rosberg
        4.Hamilton (4th only for his wins)
        3. Button
        2.Alonso
        1. Vettel (if I see Vettel on another place I’ll DEFINITELY think this is “The Sun”)

      • Mike (@mike) said on 13th December 2011, 3:32

        That’s the order I’m tipping.

        Vettel, he kinda has to be #1 doesn’t he?
        He just has been so far ahead this year. Not always in terms of pace, but always in terms of getting things right first time.

    • ed24f1 (@ed24f1) said on 13th December 2011, 1:04

      Seeing Alonso there gave me a big shock as well!

  3. themagicofspeed (@) said on 12th December 2011, 16:16

    As i have previously said, Massa deserves to be so much lower. Im thinking maybe 20 and beyond. He has lost it, and is truly a waste of a seat.

    • egsgeg said on 12th December 2011, 16:43

      Whats to say any other driver (besides Alonso) could have done better?

      • MylesW (@mpw1985) said on 12th December 2011, 18:21

        I would say that Vettel, Hamilton, Rosberg, and probably Button could have come close to/beaten Alonso in Massa’s seat

      • themagicofspeed (@) said on 12th December 2011, 23:46

        It’s an ongoing thing with him – since that awful day in 2008, his motivation and love for F1 has been trickling away. I wouldnt be surprised if he retires early, in a few years. It’s really messed him up, to the point that unfortunately he’s not even top team material anymore.

        The difference between him and Alonso, was that Alonso often got the very best result possible, out of a car that was quite clearly a complete dog, with the exception of his GB win – which he lucked into as a result of the FIA playing with the EBD rules. Had it not been for that, he would have finished 3rd at best.

        I may be a Ferrari fan, but i can see the wind whistling right through that win, it’s more hollow than Lewis Hamilton’s skull.

  4. The only one I disagree with is Mark Webber. Considering that he had the best car, he rarely helped Red Bull to one-two finishes as he struggled to beat McLaren and Ferrari. Webber could barely do what would be considered the minimum for a number two driver with the best car. At least Massa was able to often put the car where it should have been. Also the fact that Vettel out-classed Webber in every way this year, also makes me see his ranking as generous.

    • AmirAnuar (@amiranuar) said on 12th December 2011, 16:45

      yup i agreed with you…. unable to convert pole to a win, lost a lot of places in the first lap and poor race pace for a car that dominate the season.
      Quite surprise to see massa ranked 14 on the list. because i think webber perform much worse than massa for the equipment that he has on his side. for me webber shouldn’t be 1 rank above massa(in this case 13)

    • Andy G (@toothpickbandit) said on 12th December 2011, 17:06

      Agreed, if we’re talking about getting the best from your car and teammate comparison, he should be below Sutil and Heikki.

    • Alex (@smallvizier) said on 12th December 2011, 18:25

      There’s a stat I highlighted in the drivers thread which I think sums up Mark’s season perfectly.

      Of the eleven races Vettel won – races where Mark was definitely driving a race-winning car – Mark only came 2nd twice.

      He wasn’t just beaten by Vettel, he was outdriven by drivers in inferior cars as well.

  5. PJ (@pjtierney) said on 12th December 2011, 16:17

    Just have to say I’ve been mightily impressed with Schumacher this year, Spa and Monza especially.

  6. HUHHII (@huhhii) said on 12th December 2011, 16:22

    Schumacher is way too high here. What about all novice-like mistakes and crashes he made in races throughout the season? I also strongly disagree about Webber’s and Massa’s placing – they should have been way, way behind.

    • No Mo Jo said on 12th December 2011, 16:48

      On the contrary, this is a very balanced view of MS in my view: i.e. terrible qualifying and a few silly mistakes. combined with excellent starts and skilled racecraft. I can’t see anyone in the list below him who was consistently superior, so it seems fair to me.

    • Girts (@girts) said on 12th December 2011, 18:58

      I must admit that I didn’t expect Schumacher to be that high, too. But then I reviewed his season once again and I have to say that he deserves to be more or less where Keith has put him.

      Schumacher made some costly mistakes this season but the number of very strong performances is bigger. And yes, his qualifying performance was quite terrible but it’s the race results that matter. On the race day, Schumacher was often excellent and sometimes also lost valuable points through no fault of his own.

      I have heard an opinion that, were the gap between Mercedes and the midfield teams smaller, Schumacher wouldn’t have been able to compensate his poor qualifying performance that easily. But those are only assumptions.

      • HUHHII (@huhhii) said on 12th December 2011, 19:18

        @girts well yeah, maybe I exagerrated in my first post a little bit. In my list MSC was 12th, so I don’t totally disagree with this place, but I thought gaining a place from TOP-10 is impossible after such horrible driving what we saw in England, Singapore, Europe (Valencia) and Hungary.

    • themagicofspeed (@) said on 12th December 2011, 23:49

      After being in F1 for 20 years now, with or without the break, Schumacher should have ironed out those stupid mistakes years ago. Not the mark of the most successful driver in F1 history, i think you’d agree.

      I hate to point out the obvious – but he is past it. He knew he was getting past it in 2006, and he retired gracefully on a high, having narrlowly lost out on an 8th world title.

  7. Enigma (@enigma) said on 12th December 2011, 16:24

    Kovalainen is very hard to say. He did a brilliant job but his car is so much slower it’s impossible to say whether he was better than Webber and Schumacher or not. James Allen rates him as the 4th best of the season, for example.

  8. 1992 Peugeot Talbot Sport (@peugeot-905-92-93-le-mans-winner) said on 12th December 2011, 16:36

    “Kovalainen was the only one of the two to make it into Q3, which he did on three occasions. Perhaps most impressively, he beat Vitaly Petrov’s Renault in a straight fight in Singapore.”

    Kovalainen made it three times into Q3???
    Can’t remember the green car in the pole shoot out on three occasions…

  9. Pretty good list Keith, I would probably change it a bit but can’t really argue with it. I would certainly have Massa in the bottom group and Webber lower (8 or 9 maybe), I also don’t think Kobayashi should be seven places lower than Perez but apart from that ok.

    Top 5 really did pick itself:
    1. Vettel
    2. Alonso
    3. Button
    4. Hamilton
    5. Rosberg

    You can switch Alonso and Button and I wouldn’t quibble

  10. ouahou, how could Mark Webber ahead of Shumacher ? Webber is at the same level of Massa, an absolute disastrous season. Should Shumi have been in a Red Bull this year, it is absolutely sure he would have been second and would have won more than one GP. In my opinion he should even be ahead of his teammate, due to his aggresivity in races whereas all races of Rosberg was absolutely flat. Shumi must have been 5 or 6, but not seven, not behind Webber, impossible.

    • The reason Rosberg was less exciting and aggressive in races was because he qualified the car where it should have been more often than not whereas Schumacher on several occasions qualified outside the top 10, with a car with better race pace than those in front.

      The Mercedes was nowhere near the race pace of the front three teams so Rosberg could only really maintain position or go backwards in the race. Michael improved a lot from last year but I would still put Rosberg in front. I would put him in front of Webber too but probably both around 8th or 9th, Schumacher was better but still not the consistently great driver of old.

    • Thomas (@infi24r) said on 13th December 2011, 2:13

      I disagree, Schumachers qualifying was extremely poor. He was often a second off Rosberg but due to Mercedes being so much faster than the teams behind this rearely hindered him.

      If he was in the Red Bull he’d be constantly starting from 5th-6th on the grid and would do a worse job than Webber most likely.

      • Alain (@paganbasque) said on 13th December 2011, 8:27

        I cant believe you are speaking seriously. Give Michael a car to start regularly from 5th-6th and with the pace that the RB has and he would have done a much better job than Max. With this car Canada, Belgium, Italy or Japan could have been victories for him.

        And obviously, if you start a race in this position you dont have any battle with Petrov or Jaime, which is always good for your results hehehe.

  11. matthewf1 (@) said on 12th December 2011, 16:42

    More curious selections…why is Webber as high as fifth…he was consistent I suppose…consistent in under performing the car that is, for him to be this high he should have as many 2nds as Vettel had wins…not quite.

    Also, I don’t see why Rosberg is not in here but Schumacher is. Rosberg’s four best finishes were 5th, 5th, 6th and 6th. Schumacher’s 4 best finishes were 4th, 5th, 5th and 5th.

    Rosberg had a rather anonymous season as far as I’m concerned, he only beat Schumi because Schumi made too many silly mistakes, but when they were both on top form, Schumi was by far the more impressive.

  12. damonsmedley (@damonsmedley) said on 12th December 2011, 16:48

    I honestly don’t think Hamilton deserves to be ahead of Massa. Felipe actually had a decent year apart from the races where Hamilton took him out and I think he’s improved. He’s still recovering from his injuries, too, so I have an incredible amount of respect for him.

    It won’t happen of course but I wish Ferrari buy out his contract in the winter, he’s a waste of space in the Ferrari.

    I disagree vehemently. And the wording is harsh. Even if he didn’t deserve his seat, who could possibly blame him? It’s like saying someone that had a stroke and couldn’t go back to work should be put down because they’re wasting oxygen.

    • It’s like saying someone that had a stroke and couldn’t go back to work should be put down because they’re wasting oxygen.

      Blimey, that’s one hell of a stretched analogy! Being not good enough for a top level F1 race seat is not quite the same thing, I don’t think.

      • damonsmedley (@damonsmedley) said on 12th December 2011, 17:12

        Being not good enough for a top level F1 race seat is not quite the same thing, I don’t think.

        If he’s truly lost it (which I refuse to believe he has) then it’s not because he’s “not good enough”, is it? It’s a sad story and a terrible shame. But I think people don’t like Massa and choose to pick on him at any opportunity, but they conveniently omit the reason why he’s not fighting for championships anymore.

        • xbx-117 (@xbx-117) said on 12th December 2011, 18:53

          The reason he is not fighting for the championship anymore is because he hasn’t raced well enough, and scored enough points. That’s the bottom line. I used to cheer for him, as he had come back from a near death experience to compete in F1, but after Hockenheim last year, I began to lose respect for him. And after his driving this year, I’ve lost even more. Hamilton had a bad year, and finished 43 points behind his teammate, with 3 wins. Massa had a decent year (as you said), and finished 139 points behind his teammate, with no podiums.

          I think its great that he has recovered from his accident, but I don’t believe in drivers being allowed to race purely on a sympathy vote. It should be about skill first and foremost.

          That being said, I don’t think he should get the boot just yet, but if he fails to get a podium again next year, and continues performing sub-par, then sad story or not, he needs to be dropped for someone more capable. I’d love to see him challenge Alonso, but I wont hold my breath.

        • @damonsmedley I swear you’re my soul mate :P (sorry, I know you’ll want to die now).

          He’s been in the third fastest car all year, in the early races he was beating Alonso, at Canada he was fighting for pole, at China he was in the mix for a podium, who knows where he would have ended up the races when Hamilton knocked him out, he out qualified Alonso a few times towards the end of the year including by a whole second at Spa and he’s generally been much more on the pace of Alonso esp during the races all season.

          • bosyber (@bosyber) said on 16th December 2011, 7:06

            Coming back to this thread, sorry to leave that so late @Steph! I agree that Massa
            s pace has been better compared to last year, especially comparing the last half of this and last season, and that is good to see. Still, his results haven’t been very good.

            Partly due to the car, true, and certainly those crashes with Hamilton have left him stuck behind in races, but at the same time, Alonso got so much more out of it, that you can’t really say he has had a good year, with not a single race where he did great, sadly.

            (I really thought Abu Dhabi was going to be that race, and then the spin – maybe I’m too harsh, and too hung up on that one incident in the one-before-last race?)

    • Andy G (@toothpickbandit) said on 12th December 2011, 17:08

      I honestly don’t think Hamilton deserves to be ahead of Massa.

      Seriously? Name one good drive that Felipe had. Sure Hamilton also had his fair share of poor drives, but the man was immense in several races this season.

    • The stroke comparison is not good at all.

      Is it not perfectly reasonable to expect someone to do well at their job? If you don’t you get replaced it applies to most jobs. He has been poor for two years, and is lucky to be getting another season, there are many people who think Ferrari should let him go and give another driver a go.

      If he’s not right to race in F1 he shouldn’t be racing in F1, simple. Other drivers have come back from big accidents, one of them Mika Hakkinen went on to win two world championships after his. He hasn’t been able to cope with the fact Alonso has come in and dominated proceedings within the team.

      Will his fans still be throwing this about at the end of next year if Alonso does the same thing again, when it will be over three years since his accident in Hungary?

      • damonsmedley (@damonsmedley) said on 15th December 2011, 15:12

        @debaser91 @TommoTHFC @Bosyber @d3vo @toothpickbandit @xbx-117 Sorry this is so late! I’ve not been online for long enough at a time to read the comments.

        I’ll concede that my analogy was stretched, but I was only applying the same logic. I could have gone for something a little less confronting and I’m sorry if it seemed like I was having a go at you Tommo, as I’ve seen you commenting around here and you’re not bad at all.

        He can’t be kept on at Ferrari just because of sympathy, he has to earn it, which this season, he hasn’t and therefore should move on.

        I agree. But I disagree that he was terrible this year. As @Steph said, he had several good races this year which to me, proves that he still has it in him and that he can with time be back to his best. He had a few mediocre drives, but the majority of his poor results came from bad luck. He’s had a terrible season but if Ferrari can provide him with a car capable of winning races in 2012, I’d not be surprised if he finally took the fight to Fernando.

        I used to cheer for him, as he had come back from a near death experience to compete in F1, but after Hockenheim last year, I began to lose respect for him.

        I don’t think that’s fair. It was probably in his contract that he had to obey team-orders if a situation where they were required arose. In fact, I’d not be surprised if it was in Fernando’s contract too. It wasn’t good for the spectacle, but I certainly can’t blame Felipe for it.

    • Tommo N7 (@tommothfc) said on 12th December 2011, 18:28

      @damonsmedley Reading it back, my words are harsh, but in all honesty it is true. I know the Ferrari was a dog of a car this season, but the fact of how poorly he performed compared to Alonso just shows he is not good enough to warrant a Ferrari seat. Speaking of harsh, your analogy is on the harsh side. He shouldn’t be able to keep his seat just because he had an accident. He can’t be kept on at Ferrari just because of sympathy, he has to earn it, which this season, he hasn’t and therefore should move on.

    • bosyber (@bosyber) said on 12th December 2011, 18:48

      Well, that comparison is somewhat overboard @damonsmedley! If someone isn’t performing at his job, and can’t, it is best to be clear about it that he/she needs to be replaced or given a different function that does work, regardless of why. In case of accident/misfortune, or a stroke, that might mean he/she keeps payment/benefits, but the job still needs doing, doesn’t it?

      It doesn’t make that someone a bad/useless person, but does clearly limit what they can do.

      Anyway, as others say above, Hamilton did have good races, his season is bad despite them because he also had (too many) very bad ones. Massa had some solid results, but certainly nothing spectacularly good, and he missed chances like in Abu Dhabi where he could have fought Webber instead of spinning.

  13. snowman (@snowman) said on 12th December 2011, 16:51

    Can’t argue to much with list apart from Webber been to high up, although I think he will be a lot better next year.

    It’s also good to see some one in the British media taking a more intelligent view on Di Resta’s season.

    So the only ones I really don’t agree with are the two Aussies, One his ranked too high (Webber) and the other is ranked too low(Webber)

    Top 5 prediction
    5 Hamilton
    4 Rosberg
    3 Alonso
    2 Button
    1 Vettel

    • snowman (@snowman) said on 12th December 2011, 16:52

      meant low(Ricardo)

    • No Mo Jo said on 12th December 2011, 17:33

      A silly list. Hamilton fifth depite winning three races, and Rosberg in a final position higher than he managed all season. Daft.

      • KeeleyObsessed (@keeleyobsessed) said on 12th December 2011, 17:59

        But try and think of a single penalty that Rosberg got this year, then consider all the incidents Hamilton has had… It makes sense, it’s over the season, not taking each individual race. If it was individual races, then Massa would’ve been 6th..

      • Rosberg competes on a level with the top five for sure. The top five either all outclassed their team mates or were neck and neck with them. Rosberg is well placed among the elite in the sport.

        The man is a WDC in the near future, if MercAMG comes up with a good car – which they will.

      • snowman (@snowman) said on 12th December 2011, 18:30

        @ No Mo Jo

        I think you are mixing Formula 1 up with another racing series that has equal cars.

        I am surprised you have been watching F1 long enough to have seen Hamilton win 3 races but guess since I am silly and daft what would I know.

        • So you don´t think hamilton would finnish higher then rosberg in the same car? haha c´mon. This year is the only year he got beat by his teammate and it will stay so for sure. He have been very unlucky, with the stewards this year, sometimes he may deserved it, but far from everytime.
          This season will only make him stronger in the future. Rosberg is a joke

  14. tflb1 (@) said on 12th December 2011, 16:53

    Webber, Schumacher and Rosberg are all too high in my opinion. I’d put Perez, Sutil, Alguersuari and Di Resta in front of all of them.

    • Shane (@f1champion18) said on 12th December 2011, 23:16

      I think Schumacher and Rosberg have done OK this season. They haven’t had the greeatest car and they’ve been in the points consistently. However, I agree with you about Webber. He has had an awful season.

  15. disjunto (@disjunto) said on 12th December 2011, 16:57

    I think Kov had a much better season than both Schumacher and Webber. Webber seemed to struggle throughout the season, and only got as high up in the points because of the excellent car he had to drag his pace up. Schumacher had a good season, but it wasn’t anything special. Whereas Kov simply destroyed Trulli in both race pace and qualy pace (Where Trulli is said to be excellent?) and managed to force the midfield teams to use up softs in Q1 nearly every race in a car that really wasn’t that great and had Trulli complaining nearly every other race.

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