Alguersuari and Buemi react to losing seats

F1 Fanatic round-up

In the round-up: Alguersuari and Buemi describe their disappointment at losing their places in F1.

Links

Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Jaime Alguersuari: “I am not a victim…” (Adam Cooper)

“Just a week after winning the Challenge das Estrelas in Florian?â??polis I talked with Helmut Marko and Franz Tost and they told me they had plans for me in 2012.”

Buemi ‘fell from the sky’ after losing seat (GP Update)

“I was in the simulator yesterday morning at Red Bull Racing in Milton Keynes, where Franz [Tost] and Helmut [Marko] called me…”

Sebastien Buemi via Twitter

“Thanks a lot for all your support! It is now time to head toward a new direction!”

Ferrari to run new car in first test (Autosport)

Luca Colajanni: “The new Ferrari F1 car will be presented in early February, in time to take part in the first test session ahead of the season.”

Paul Di Resta deal earmarks him as force to be reckoned with (The Times, subscription required)

“Vijay Mallya, the billionaire Force India co-owner, was at Silverstone [on Wednesday] to finalise details of the line-up for 2012, when Di Resta is expected to lead the team.”

Timo Gans (Nico Hulkenberg’s press officer) via Twitter

“My understanding is, that it seems most likely, that there will be no announcement [Thursday], but probably [Friday].”

Mark Webber column (BBC)

“I won in Brazil, relegating Fernando [Alonso] to fourth. He’s an intense competitor but I don’t think he was that unhappy about losing out by one point. I got a text message from him the day before I was going to India, reminding me that I had to go. It was along the lines of: ‘This is your captain speaking, your flight is ready for boarding.’ It made me smile.”

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Comment of the day

Should Toro Rosso serve only as a ‘rookie farm’ for Red Bull? GT_Racer says no:

If Red Bull want a ‘Rookie training school’ then buy a GP2 team. Running an F1 team like that is wrong.

Like we have seen with Jaime Alguersuari, they put him in the car with no testing (not even any Friday running) at age 19 and almost certainly moved him into F1 before he was ready. He?óÔéĽÔäós then put under more pressure than its really ideal considering his age/experience, He shows improvement year on year and at the point when he looks like he’s really got F1 figured out and was showing massive improvement they throw him to one side.

If Toro Rosso had retained Jaime I’d have marked him out as someone to really watch for 2012 and if he finds a ride elsewhere I still think he will prove just how good he is and how good he will become as he gains more experience.
GT_Racer

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69 comments on Alguersuari and Buemi react to losing seats

  1. cduk_mugello (@cduk_mugello) said on 16th December 2011, 0:07

    I think the way Red Bull have treated Alguersuari in particular has been pretty shoddy.

    Whilst I’m unsure he’d make a champion, I think he could easily become a Gerhard Berger type figure. If he doesn’t get another break, I think we’ve been robbed of that.

    • Deurmat (@deurmat) said on 16th December 2011, 8:12

      That’s just the way it goes with red bull, remember Scott Speed, Bourdais at least they got to finish their season lol.

    • Bleeps_and_Tweaks (@bleeps_and_tweaks) said on 16th December 2011, 11:04

      Yep, totally agree @cduk_mugello I don’t like the way Red Bull have handled this at all. To me the logical version of this would have been to let Aljesauri have a year alongside Ricciardo and see how they fare against eachother. Vergne could have easily done another year as reserve driver.

      I also totally agree with the COTD by @GT_Racer – GP2 should be the feeder system, not a fully funcitonal F1 team with people putting their heart and soul into designing and running the car round the world all year, its a bit disrespectful really.

  2. Estesark (@estesark) said on 16th December 2011, 0:09

    A very mature reaction from Jaime Alguersuari there. But I’m wondering, if Helmut Marko and Franz Tost really did talk to him about their 2012 plans, were they deliberately misleading him? Or had they not made their mind up yet? Or – and this is the interesting part – does he still have a part to play for them? Perhaps a year as Red Bull’s testing driver, or a move to another team with their backing, is on the cards. I was pretty dismissive of the idea after Alguersuari and Buemi were ditched, but perhaps there is a chance of it happening after all.

    Were both the drivers out of contract, does anyone know?

    • Cyclops_PL (@cyclops_pl) said on 16th December 2011, 8:33

      What did you expect from Mr. Marko? This would be very much his style and Tost is in fact his subordinate and has little to say in these matters.

      • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th December 2011, 9:09

        @cyclops_pl – I think you’re overstating Marko’s involvement here. Alguersuari’s comments make it pretty clear that Marko and Tost had both promised that the team’s 2012 plans involved him racing for them. For all we know, Marko wanted to keep Alguersuari and Buemi, but Dietrich Mateschitz intervened and said “They’ve had long enough”, or Christian Horner called and told them “We don’t think they would be up to replacing Webber”. Marko was in the wrong for the way he blamed Webber for the crash in Turkey and triggering the Red Bull Civil War, but I think far too many people are far too quick to blame him for everything that goes wrong because of that incident.

        • They didn’t promised, he said “I talked with Helmut Marko and Franz Tost and they told me they had plans for me in 2012.”

          Well, that was the plan!

          • How cruel would they be! I sadly don’t think they have any other plans – but now they’re without test drivers for either RB or TR if I remember correctly…

  3. Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th December 2011, 0:10

    “Just a week after winning the Challenge das Estrelas in Florianópolis I talked with Helmut Marko and Franz Tost and they told me they had plans for me in 2012.”

    Once again, Toro Rosso show a complete lack of respect for their drivers. I still remember when Sebastien Bourdais was fired via text message. And then there was the way Franz Tost tore strips off Scott Speed for spinning off at the first corner during the washed-out 2007 German Grand Prix – despite the way four other drivers (including his own team-mate) did it before him. I get the distinct impression that Toro Rosso only treat their drivers with anything resembling fairness for as long as they remain useful to Red Bull.

    • Mike (@mike) said on 16th December 2011, 1:38

      Pretty much.

      I just hope Jaime doesn’t end up testing for Red Bull. Testing nowadays, with how Red Bull works it’s drivers, is not a good move for his career.

      (I remember how they treated that Kiwi guy. Hartley?)

      • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th December 2011, 1:59

        Their treatment of Hartley seemed quite reasonable, actually. Hartley knew Bourdais was in jeopardy, and he also knew that he would be the driver to replace Bourdais. However, Hartley felt that he wasn’t ready for Formula 1, and so decided to step down from the Toro Rosso test driver role so that he could concentrate on his WSR season. That’s how Alguersuari ended up in the seat – Red Bull needed someone to replace Bourdais, and Hartley had turned the job done.

        However, Hartley was dropped from the Young Driver Program in 2010 when his results in the WSR were not up to the standard Red Bull were expecting. Once you’re in the YDP, you don’t stay there forever – you have to keep performing if you want to keep your place.

        The problem in all of this is that while Red Bull have finally plucked up the nerve to be a little ruthless with their driver programme, they’ve been too ruthless. As near as I can tell, they are only supporting four drivers: Daniel Ricciardo, Jean-Eric Vergne, Daniil Kvyat and Carlos Sainz Jnr. Ricciardo and Vergne have been promoted to Toro Rosso (so officially, they are no longer a part of the YDP), but while Kvyat and Sainz have shown promise, they haven’t raced in anything above Formula Renault 2.0, and they’re only seventeen. If anything should prevent Ricciardo or Vergne from racing next year, Toro Rosso won’t have a third driver at the ready.

    • RumFRESH (@rumfresh) said on 16th December 2011, 4:37

      Agreed.

  4. Felipe Bomeny (@portugoose) said on 16th December 2011, 0:12

    I’m touting Buemi for a drive with the Rebellion Racing team in the LMS alongside countryman and long-time Red Bull protegee Neel Jani.

    • I hope Jaimie also goes to lemans for the time being. it seems like the only logical place for them after f1. hopefully he wont even consider indy because thats literally career kill. the new toyota team could use his skill with next years lemans

  5. Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 16th December 2011, 0:18

    If Toro Rosso is a “rookie farm” to Red Bull, then they should have a real programme in a way that they develop their drivers according to the need.

    What’s the point of having 4 drivers “ready to rumble” if there’s just 2 seats at Red Bull? and even worse, only one of the seats is considered available.

    They should bet on the long term. Alguersuari was showing great promise and they just sacked him too late for him to react and try to keep going on F1.

    That’s not a “rookie farm”, it’s just a driver-blender. They should remember it’s very difficult to impress the way Vettel did in his days, because the rookies are not given the time on track like before. Alguersuari just drove a F1 car for the first time the weekend he made his debut while Vettel had a whole year of friday running on the BMW.

    • celeste (@celeste) said on 16th December 2011, 0:33

      What’s the point of having 4 drivers “ready to rumble” if there’s just 2 seats at Red Bull? and even worse, only one of the seats is considered available.

      Buemi and Alguersuari were ready for an F1 drivve back in 2009, after seen their results RBR thinks they aren ´t what they look for RBR (aka a front running team) so they let them go… as simple as that…

      Now Vergne and Riccardo are ready for Toro Rosso and F1, lets see in 1 to 2 years if they are ready for Red bull… Thats the idea behind Toro Rosso, why is so hard to understand…

      That’s not a “rookie farm”, it’s just a driver-blender. They should remember it’s very difficult to impress the way Vettel did in his days, because the rookies are not given the time on track like before. Alguersuari just drove a F1 car for the first time the weekend he made his debut while Vettel had a whole year of friday running on the BMW.

      Back in 2009, Alguersuari had has all the time he needs… 2 and a half years… lot s of drivers only get a race to prove themself…

      • Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 16th December 2011, 0:50

        You completely missed the point.

        They said STR is a rookie farm for Red Bull, not F1. Alguersuari and Buemi did well enough, and you don’t know how they might perform in Red Bull until they actually get a seat in the team, because none of them dissapointed like others have done.

        If they are looking for “Vettels” only, then that’s a bit of a long shot. It doesn’t happen every year.

        • skipgamer (@skipgamer) said on 16th December 2011, 10:08

          If they are looking for “Vettels” only, then that’s a bit of a long shot. It doesn’t happen every year.

          But that’s the idea… Think about it, if they go through a round of rookies every 3-4 years, then those are actually pretty good odds at finding “Vettels”. You have to remember that these drivers have gone through the development programme before F1, so they are ALL good drivers.

          But Red Bull don’t just want good. They want the best. If it doesn’t look like the drivers are going to be the best, why should Red Bull risk a year of results on them?

          If the paddock agrees with you, and they think Red Bull are wrong, and that these drivers have true talent, I’m sure they will find a drive. If not, then well, that’s F1. Not every driver is going to have a fairy tale story.

          • what people forget is the STR in 08 was a very good car. much better than the sister red bull.

            Vettel got a great win in monza in terrible conditions, but that aside his results werent a millions years different to jamies. consistent 6’s 7’s and 8’s. and bearing in mind this years STR is much slower than 08s jamie’s 8th 9ths and 10th’s in this season is equally as impressive.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 16th December 2011, 12:02

            @q85 – Convert Vettel’s 2008 points to this years system and he would have scored 93 points, with his seven top six finishes. Vettel also took a 4th in 2007. Jaime has never finished in the top six in almost double the races.

            The STR was better in 08, Jaime did very well this year, but I wouldn’t say Jaime has been equally impressive.

      • The Last Pope (@the-last-pope) said on 16th December 2011, 1:04

        So why have they still got Webber? If he was driving for torro roso he’d get sacked for his performance this year. He struggled to get his tyres to work for him the whole year, he’d be miles behind where the two Torro Rosso drivers ended up in the championship.

        • xjr15jaaag (@xjr15jaaag) said on 16th December 2011, 17:12

          Webber has actually proved that he can mix it with the best of them last year; he has proven he is still one of the best. It isn’t a case of Webber getting worse, it’s Vettel getting better. I mean, his wins last year were incredible; he dominated at Monaco and Spain for example, and a driver doesn’t just get 0.5s a lap slower during the Winter, it’s just seb has got much better

      • ScuderiaVincero (@scuderiavincero) said on 16th December 2011, 1:17

        @celeste

        Back in 2009, Alguersuari had has all the time he needs… 2 and a half years… lots of drivers only get a race to prove themself…

        You don’t think it was a premature introduction to F1? I mean, he had only turned 19 about 4 months prior to his first Grand Prix.

        • celeste (@celeste) said on 16th December 2011, 2:06

          @scuderiavinsero Then simple, he shouldn´t have made it to F1 back then… do you want me to tell you the chances that he have made it to a seat at any other age? They are nearly 5%. Good luck with that one…

          They said STR is a rookie farm for Red Bull, not F1. Alguersuari and Buemi did well enough, and you don’t know how they might perform in Red Bull until they actually get a seat in the team, because none of them dissapointed like others have done.

          They aren´t looking for the next Vettel, nor the Hamilton, or Alonso, or Schumacher… they are looking for the next “great” driver, the next “championship winning” driver.

          I´m not telling that Buemi and Alguersuari aren´t good, maybe they are… what I´m telling is that Toro Rosso has giving them time to show their worth, and for whatever the reason of standard they have they don´t think they deserve their backing anymore and a Red Bull drive… thats their standard and their choice…maybe it will come to bite them in the ass one day…

          They have come to full circle with them, is the same with in any employee at any enterprise… so they hired new blood, if this new blood don´t prove good enough, they will come a new one a so on…

          • Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 16th December 2011, 2:39

            Then simple, he shouldn´t have made it to F1 back then

            Exactly the point I’m making. If they gave him the chance to drive for them with no experience to back his drive, then they should given him the chance to keep going. All in all, Alguersuari practically debuted in 2010.

            do you want me to tell you the chances that he have made it to a seat at any other age? They are nearly 5%

            That’s something you don’t know. What if Alguersuari made it to GP2 and then F1? the proper way in recent years.

            They have come to full circle with them, is the same with in any employee at any enterprise… so they hired new blood, if this new blood don´t prove good enough, they will come a new one a so on…

            They won’t know who’s good and who isn’t if they sack him after 2 seasons. 1 season is barely enough for anyone driving a relatively slow car (it’s more difficult to impress that way).

            It’s not as simple as hiring new blood and waiting it to perform instantly. It’s a matter of development, in the long term. If they are a true rookie farm, then they should be a bit more patient OR take another route, because this way isn’t gonna work for them.

          • celeste (@celeste) said on 16th December 2011, 3:06

            @Fer-no65

            It’s not as simple as hiring new blood and waiting it to perform instantly. It’s a matter of development, in the long term. If they are a true rookie farm, then they should be a bit more patient OR take another route, because this way isn’t gonna work for them

            Then maybe next time we all cry because teams aren´t willing to take chances on young talents you should think in what you just posted. And is exactly why instead of being outrages at Toro Rosso we should at least respect their ethos, instead of going for the safe bet they are always willing to develop new drivers, even if the driver isn´t hiredby them, if what he has done is good another team will be willing to take the chances on them (see Liuzzi)

            Toro Rosso is taking a chance like it took a chance with Vettel, With Bourdais, with Buemi and Alguersuari… and is the same that all the teams do now…

            It’s not as simple as hiring new blood and waiting it to perform instantly. It’s a matter of development, in the long term. If they are a true rookie farm, then they should be a bit more patient OR take another route, because this way isn’t gonna work for them.

            Not a big diference. Even with out 2009 Alguersuari had 2 years to show results… the team don ´t like him is their prerogative to look for another driver, but at least they gave him a chance and waiting enough to pass judgement IMHO.

            That’s something you don’t know. What if Alguersuari made it to GP2 and then F1? the proper way in recent years.

            And how many GP2 winners,runner ups, third places had made it to F1 in the last three years?
            Hpw many of these had done it without bringing sponsor money?

    • Estesark (@estesark) said on 16th December 2011, 1:17

      Great points, @fer-no65. I completely agree with you and can’t find anything to add.

      • Pavel (@pchun) said on 16th December 2011, 11:14

        And how many GP2 winners,runner ups, third places had made it to F1 in the last three years?
        Hpw many of these had done it without bringing sponsor money?

        Well, may be STR is the only team that picks up drivers without sponsorship. But there is the other side of this coin – essentially they are not only promoting drivers but manufacturing brands for Red Bull marketing department. Remember their obsession with finding young America star several years ago, and it seems to be the same story with Vergne now. You also can easily identify they are interested in Russian market (Aleshin and now Kvyat).
        I suppose one of the problems with Buemi and Alguersuari was they were pretty anonymous in marketing terms.

        Toro Rosso is taking a chance like it took a chance with Vettel, With Bourdais, with Buemi and Alguersuari…

        That’s the point. Since early 2000s they took chances with Bernoldi, Frisacher, Clien, Liuzzi, Dornboos, Speed, Bourdais, Allguersuari, Buemi. And none of them turned out to be any good at least on their own standards. They struck gold with Vettel (“co-developed” with BMW). But with drivers they promoted themselves success rate is pretty unimpressive – zero.

        • celeste (@celeste) said on 16th December 2011, 15:30

          @Pavel thats because finding a World Winning Driver is hard.

          Of the drivers that made f1 only 3% win a championship.

          And is you want to play statistic more, since you are in the feedder series the chances you get to F1 and win a driver championship is 0.17%.

          So good luck if your childhood dream is to win a Driver Championship.

  6. @ Fer 65.

    You hit the nail on the head.

  7. Harvs (@harvs) said on 16th December 2011, 0:50

    Ah the failings of being in the Red Bull Driver Programme…

  8. wasiF1 (@wasif1) said on 16th December 2011, 2:57

    I feel bad for both Alguersuari and Buemi. Probably the team weren’t clear to them as they were removed from the team.I don’t know what the whole Red Bull management wants but I don’t think the decision they made this time was a good one.

    • KeeleyObsessed (@keeleyobsessed) said on 16th December 2011, 8:05

      @wasif1

      Probably the team weren’t clear to them as they were removed from the team

      What happened to reading the article? Alguersuari quite obviously had some idea of what was going on, whilst Buemi didn’t seem disappointed (or at least, didn’t seem surprised by the decision) So how were the team ‘not clear to them’?

      • wasiF1 (@wasif1) said on 16th December 2011, 9:38

        @KeeleyObsessed both were told by their management that their management were thinking about them for 2012.

        • KeeleyObsessed (@keeleyobsessed) said on 16th December 2011, 9:44

          @wasif1

          THINKING. Precisely. At no point was it mentioned that they would be DEFINITELY signed for 2012, both drivers knew that Toro Rosso is a rookie team, and they’ve now had 3 years each in that team. It doesn’t take much to simply make a few phonecalls to another team and inquire about drives. They could’ve at least made provisions in case of something like this happening. Now it’s decided, unless something big happens, the best team they can get themselves into is Force India.. And if not, there’s 1 seat at Williams and 1 at HRT.. They’ve ended up in this situation, but it is by no means Toro Rosso’s fault..

          • wasiF1 (@wasif1) said on 16th December 2011, 9:59

            @KeeleyObsessed
            First of all sorry if my comment meant anything that points finger toward STR as I meant to say that STR didn’t do any good to sign two Rookie when there are hard fight in the mid-field & I hoped that Alguersuari will be given a seat in the RBR in the future once Mark retires.

            In Alguersuari’s case “Just a week after winning the Challenge das Estrelas in FlorianĂłpolis I talked with Helmut Marko and Franz Tost and they told me they had plans for me in 2012.”

            & Buemi “A few days earlier, I had been discussing things for the next season” so yes I agree that they weren’t SIGNED but for some reason or not they were given some hope as both were caught by surprised as both were given some hope.

  9. Hamish (@hamish) said on 16th December 2011, 4:17

    Sad news that V8 Supercar driver Jason Richards succumbed to his illness last night in Melbourne. I do know that members of F1 donated items to be auctioned to help this cause.

    http://www.foxsports.com.au/motor-sports/v8-supercars/v8-supercars-star-jason-richards-dead-after-succumbing-to-adrenal-cortical-carcinoma-an-abdominal-cancer/story-fn2ms9um-1226223960948

  10. OOliver said on 16th December 2011, 6:45

    It has nothing to do with performance, just the puppet and the strings. Clearly some can’t seem to fight the urge to display their power.

  11. AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 16th December 2011, 7:10

    Still annoyed for Buemi and Alguersuari. Had they actually done developing those 2 drivers? From what I can tell they both still had something to give and prove.

  12. Dev (@dev) said on 16th December 2011, 7:27

    keeping the STR tradition this seems completely fair… they gave both drivers chance to race at the highest level, the drivers whom they replaced too were abruptly removed mainly for performance reasons… they both got decent time to show to RBR & other F1 teams what they got…. now they get replaced by other rookies like them. who will get chance to show their skills.

    The only thing that was not in the right spirits was keeping the drivers in the dark… they should have told em that it’s likely that they both will be dropped next year and they should look out for other F1 seats or make alternate plans in advance.

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th December 2011, 7:48

      @dev

      they should have told em that it’s likely that they both will be dropped next year and they should look out for other F1 seats or make alternate plans in advance.

      Heaven forbid that they should join another team and be competitive enough to race against the Toro Rossos. It’s almost as if the team has the attitude of “we gave you your career, so we have the right to take it away”. I don’t think it’s going to be pleasant when Sebastian Vettel decides it’s time to leave Red Bull …

      • bosyber (@bosyber) said on 16th December 2011, 8:12

        Exactly @prisoner-monkeys – and while I thought their reactions were mature, especially Alguesuari, reminding himself that Spain has about 5 million unemployed and that he has plenty of opportunity, both of them say something like “I don’t blame them for unceremoniously dumping me, after all they picked me up as a kid and helped me get places” sounds to me a bit too much like Stockhold Syndrom. It should be even worse to treat someone like that when you have such a long bond!

        It would be a bit like an alternate reality where Alonso and Ron Dennis hadn’t fallen out, and Dennis dropping HAM at the end of 2007 because he needed a different teammate for Alonso.

      • I don’t think it’s going to be pleasant when Sebastian Vettel decides it’s time to leave Red Bull …

        Thankfully, Vettel has built up enough of a reputation already. He’s as immune from Red Bull’s – if you want to call it that – highhandedness as a Young Driver Program’s alumni can be.

  13. verstappen (@verstappen) said on 16th December 2011, 9:09

    Harsh and in some ways rude, Toro Rosso. But Liuzzi is an example in more than one way:
    – there’s life after RB
    – maybe they weren’t wrong to sack him
    Time Will tell if this applies also for Alguersuari and Buemi…

  14. antonyob (@antonyob) said on 16th December 2011, 9:52

    I assume COTD is sometimes there to generate conversation rather than actually being a salient point. Torro Rosso is a feeder team for Red Bull and if the drivers arent better than what theyve got already its time to move them on. Im a huge fan of Jamie A, hes a proper driver who can handle a car with its tail out but if hes that good then he’ll easily get another drive. And its not old ladies bingo night, its intense pressure wherever you are at that level.

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 16th December 2011, 9:57

      You assume wrong. I keep an eye on the comments and pick out the one I decide is best. I’m not looking for a comment on a particular subject, or one I agree or disagree with, just a good comment.

  15. Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th December 2011, 10:08

    <a href="http://twitter.com/GrandPrixDiary"Interesting tweet from @GrandPrixDiary:
    [quote]Force India. The world waits with (nearly) baited breath. Hulkenberg, as sure as Christmas but will it be di Resta or di Roubles?[/quote]
    I don’t think there’s too much too it – “di Rubles” sounds like it was added for the sake of a gag.

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 16th December 2011, 11:07

      Wow. That was horrible. This is how it should read:

      Interesting tweet from @GrandPrixDiary:

      Force India. The world waits with (nearly) baited breath. Hulkenberg, as sure as Christmas but will it be di Resta or di Roubles?

      I don’t think there’s too much too it – “di Rubles” sounds like it was added for the sake of a gag.

      That’s what I get from copy-and-pasting straight from another forum.

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