Mercedes missing from teams’ new deal

F1 Fanatic round-up

Michael Schumacher, Mercedes, Sepang, 2012In the F1 Fanatic round-up: Mercedes are not ready to sign the new Concorde Agreement deal being offered by Bernie Ecclestone to the teams.

F1 Fanatic Live

First of all, those of you in the UK remember that the clocks go forward one hour at 1am on Sunday morning.

F1 Fanatic Live will be running today for the GP2 feature race from Malaysia, followed by the Malaysian Grand Prix and finally the IndyCar Grand Prix of St Petersburg.

You can join in here:

And here are the start times for those races:

Links

Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Mercedes silent on future F1 deal (Autosport)

“High-level sources close to the outfit have revealed, however, that the team is unhappy about the deal that has been put on the table, and especially the way that terms being offered to all the front-running outfits are not the same.”

Alonso forced to accept new car is not competitive (Reuters)

“Obviously it was tough with the conditions we have now and we are not competitive. We did one lap, we knew it was not possible to compete with the guys in front so ninth is okay.”

Q&A with Lotus?s Kimi Raikkonen (F1)

“Maybe I am a bit disappointed as I very well could have ended up in P3 – or even on pole position. But I made a small mistake and there you go. And then with the penalty, of course that costs us even more.”

Rosberg out to overtake (Sky)

“I look forward to overtaking, definitely, tomorrow. I think we have a good speed advantage. I have a good speed advantage over the people in front, so that should definitely help with overtaking.”

Formula One: vroom for speculation (FT, registration required)

“This year it is likely to earn $550m in TV rights, according to Formula Money, which tracks F1 finances. But F1 is broadcast mainly on free-to-air TV around the world, so could potentially increase its TV rights revenue substantially by switching to pay-TV broadcasters (F1 struck a deal with British Sky Broadcasting last year).”

Romain Grosjean ?ǣ “We Still Need to Keep Pushing” (Lotus)

“Normally our starts are pretty strong and there?s a lot of track between the start line and the first corner, so if we have no problems this time I?ll be looking to make up as much ground as I can before we get there.”

Michael Schumacher: “I don?t think we have to think right now about winning races…” (Adam Cooper)

“Here this circuit is a little bit more representative for the rest of the year, and that?s good, to have a car that?s competitive in both those tracks.”

Mercedes DRS Duct: How it links to the front wing (ScarbsF1)

“For rival teams to replicate this system, they will need to find space to package the ducts inside the footwell area. As we saw in 2010, teams can be very imaginative in creating way to package this sort of solution. But this will take time and may explain some team?s opposition to the legality of the system.”

Nick Heidfeld via Twitter

“Still believe that Vettel will come out on top of Webber especially regarding points as I believe he will be stronger in the races.”

Comment of the day

Djdaveyp85 is disappointed with Nico Rosberg’s qualifying performances:

One thing that has disappointed me in both qualifying sessions so far this year… Nico Rosberg.

He has had a car that has nearly-pole potential at both races and in both qualifying sessions so far he has snuffed his chance to put his car into a great position.

Every time he has had a good chance to be in such a position so far he has cracked under the pressure (remember the mistake coming out of the pits at Singapore a few years ago where he had potential to get into a race winning position or at least a good podium?).

He needs to sort this aspect of his driving out and deliver on the potential that we all know is there.
Djdaveyp85

From the forum

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Guilherme Teixeira and Marc!

If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

Karun Chandhok’s first appearance for Lotus (now Caterham) at Melbourne in 2011 did not go well.

He crashed at turn four on his first lap out of the pits:

Image ?? Daimler/Hoch Zwei

Advert | Go Ad-free

46 comments on Mercedes missing from teams’ new deal

  1. Dom (@3dom) said on 25th March 2012, 0:10

    In response to COTD, it looks as though Michael has improved his qualifying performance this season too and that’s why he’s 2:0 up in qualifying. It would be interesting to know what times nico would have gotten relative to Michael if he hadnt made the mistakes. I imagine it would be very close and there’s a good chance it will be close between the two of them all season long

    • Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 25th March 2012, 0:37

      Nico looked a lot faster in Melbourne, if I remember correctly. I’m also very dissapointed with his performance so far… 7th and 8th on that car is certainly an underachievement.

      Very sad, really, as I feel he still has the upper hand within the team.

      • phizzy said on 25th March 2012, 4:01

        Nico looked a lot faster cause Schumacher was out on a gearbox problem…. when schumacher was at 3rd vettel tried but could not get close enough to challenge for a pass.

        I am finding it hilarious that the young guns like vettel, rosberg and somewhat hamilton are like suddenly realizing Schumacher could become the pain they taught he couldn’t.

        where else alonso, button, and some of the more veteran drivers knew something like this would happen if he had a good car.

        He looks way fitter than anytime in the past… and as fit as people half his age, in the cockpit.

        • Dom (@3dom) said on 25th March 2012, 8:12

          I am finding it hilarious that the young guns like vettel, rosberg and somewhat hamilton are like suddenly realizing Schumacher could become the pain they taught he couldn’t.

          Yeah jenson & alonso having raced against him before know how formidable shumi is when he has a car to his liking. Perhaps in some circumstances it takes a couple of years of working with engineers and designers to get the car just right for you.

      • AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 25th March 2012, 7:47

        @fer-no65 One race result isn’t going to swing things in Schumacher’s favour, especially after Rosberg has beaten him in the past two years. Points make prizes and although it wasn’t Schumacher’s fault, he didn’t score any.

        • MahavirShah (@mahavirshah) said on 25th March 2012, 8:08

          @andrewtanner True that, but at the same time one does get the feeling that he is more comfortable in the W03. Since last year we have been seeing glimpses of Schumacher’s excellent race awareness and it seems that he finally has a car that suits him. Again this is not about who is better, Rosberg or Schumacher, but like you said 2:0 in qualifying is not a real marker to judge 2 drivers.

          That being said, I expect a good contest between those two while at the same time hope that they can spoil the party for Red Bull and McLaren purely for the good of the sport and interest of the viewers and fans.

        • Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 25th March 2012, 9:46

          @andrewtanner sure thing. But it’s still a bit of a “cracking under pressure” situation.

    • HoHum (@hohum) said on 25th March 2012, 0:37

      I would add that trying to go faster than the cars is capable of normally doing is bound to lead to mistakes, look at Lewis’ lock up yesterday, some drivers go for broke to get pole while others will settle for a good position without risk.Nico might be going for broke because his team-mate is MSC.

  2. electrolite (@electrolite) said on 25th March 2012, 0:41

    I really hope Rosberg doesn’t end up being one of those drivers with a Barrichello/Kovalainen complex (for complete lack of a better name/examples) where in underperforming cars he really shines but given the chances he gets outperformed.

    I don’t think that’s the case, and it’s way too early to make that sort of assumption. Perhaps it’s because he’s never been in the position where he has the machinery to genuinely challenge for pole. Where as Michael Schumacher has. I know after years of disappointing cars being suddenly thrown into something with potential, I don’t blame him for feeling the pressure.

    • Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 25th March 2012, 2:32

      I really hope Rosberg doesn’t end up being one of those drivers with a Barrichello/Kovalainen complex (for complete lack of a better name/examples) where in underperforming cars he really shines but given the chances he gets outperformed.

      Guess you’re looking for Fisichella as a prime example. I agree, it’s far too early to say if he ends up being like Fisi or the others… but he’s running out of time, now.

    • Harvs (@harvs) said on 25th March 2012, 6:39

      Its early, hes had one race and two qualifying sessions in a proper fast car, let him get used to the pressure of having the chance to grab pole or podiums on a regular basis. Look at Vettel in 09′, made alot of mistakes in a car that ended up being the fastest and he wasn’t used being at the front but he got used to it and therefor better. Sure he won in 08′ and put some good performances that year, but for alot of those dry races he didn’t have the chance to grab pole or win and he knew that about the car, and that’s a different type of pressure.

      When Rosberg gets used to the idea that he can get pole or he gets a pole, his performances will get better, Remember you get better at doing things that more you do it. The sum of poles that everyone around him have scored must be in the hundreds so its just something more he has to overcome.

  3. Chops (@chops) said on 25th March 2012, 2:24

    Great to see two Aussies on the front row in St Pete. I’m still getting used to the new cars though. They look great side on – front, left, etc. They just look weird from any other angle!

  4. ross.willow (@ross-willow) said on 25th March 2012, 2:56

    Heidfield really doesn’t like Web’s huh? :)

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 25th March 2012, 5:06

      He didn’t say that. He said he thinks Vettel will finish ahead of Webber because he thinks Vettel is the better racer. That doesn’t mean that he thinks Webber is a bad driver.

      • ross.willow (@ross-willow) said on 25th March 2012, 6:08

        Why make the comment then? I don’t see him commenting about each team.

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 25th March 2012, 6:18

          Why make the comment then?

          Because he has an opinion, and the means to express it.

          I don’t see him commenting about each team.

          Red Bull’s poor(er) performance and the difference between Vettel and Webber have been talking points this season.

          Plus, Twitter only allowed for 140 characters in each message.

          • ross.willow (@ross-willow) said on 25th March 2012, 6:50

            Granted, however there’s also a talking point relating to Mercedes given their improved performance over last year, and MSC’s bettering of Rosberg, or even Lotus’ & Kimi’s performances, or even Sauber’s re-emergence and Perez’s pace. Why not use the 140 characters available to say something relevant to a team that Heidfield’s been linked with or driven for, or his countrymen (Given Vet is German, but Merc is all German!). Seems to me that he just wanted to make a negative comment about Web.

          • ross.willow (@ross-willow) said on 25th March 2012, 6:54

            Having actually read the rest of Heidfield’s blog I’ll retract my original statement.

    • q85 said on 25th March 2012, 8:36

      ‘@brendanq85
      @NickHeidfeld did u burn down the lotus hospitality centre? ;) just joking mate!’
      Retweeted by Nick Heidfeld

      @brendanq85 I have been on fire with them, mean for them a couple of times

      was well happy Nick retweeted and replied to make jokey message. top sense of humour!

  5. ed24f1 (@ed24f1) said on 25th March 2012, 3:35

    Nico Rosberg has a bit of a history of cracking under a lot of pressure (Singapore 2009, China 2010, China 2011 etc.) so I can’t say I’m overly surprised by his troubles in qualifying this year so far, unfortunately.

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 25th March 2012, 4:00

      I don’t think he’s cracking under pressure. I think he’s just driving the car the same way every time, and he doesn’t really respond to changes in the surface and atmospheric conditions. His Q2 time in Australia was 1:25.469; his Q3 time was two-tenths slower, a 1:25.686. Compare that to Schumacher, who did a 1:25.571 in Q2, but went two-tenths faster in Q3, with 1:25.336. Now, in Melbourne, qualifying began at 5pm local time, but by the end of Q3, it was after 6pm (as Alonso’s spin stopped the session). The temperature of both the circuit and air dropped, and Rosberg didn’t really adapt to it. He just drove in Q3 the way he did in Q2, and I think that’s his problem: he’s not sensitive enough to changes, and so doesn’t respond accordingly.

      • Excellent insiight. Thank you.

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 25th March 2012, 6:15

          I wouldn’t call what I do “insight”. “Confident speculation” is probably more apt.

          • kyle (@kyle) said on 25th March 2012, 7:33

            You have the point.. but I’m confident that MSC is improving well beginning in the 2nd half of last season. No doubt Rosberg is talented but MSC was underperforming hence Britney seems very good. If Schumi will crush him this year then his marketing value will of course decline compare to Michael who have nothing to loss.

  6. djdaveyp85 (@djdaveyp87) said on 25th March 2012, 4:03

    Wow, my first COTD :)

    Took me a few years that! :D

  7. Mike (@mike) said on 25th March 2012, 4:17

    The new concord agreement is absolutely ridiculous.

    Mclaren as the leading FOTA team should be ashamed that they bow to the money.
    Because that’s what it is, Bernie has given Ferrari, Red Bull and Mclaren a financial incentive to cave, as they have, and then says to the others, fall in or fall out. As he always does, divide a conquer, and the teams never learn.

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 25th March 2012, 5:04

      @mike – We don’t know the terms of the Concorde Agreement. The Sky article is impossible to verify because it has been taken down, and even then, it may have only contained selected extracts from the document in question – and when you are quoting extracts, it is very easy to lose (intentionally or otherwise) context. The terms of the Concorde are never made fully public, and even if they were, then we would probably need a legal expert to properly understand it. Furthermore, the reports about the majority of teams joining up make it fairly clear that they have only agreed to continue racing in principle in 2013. Nothing has been signed yet. Since you don’t know the terms of the new Concorde, how are you in any position to judge what the teams should or should not do – especially since your only source on the subject cannot be verified?

      And for some reason, people are under the impression that the teams cannot stand Bernie and his tactics. I believe this to be patently untrue – I think most of the teams actually like him. It’s fairly clear that he is amicable with all of them. When FOTA threatened a breakaway series in 2009, Bernie was one of the first to support them. By doing so, they applied more pressure to the FIA and Mosley. I think people are very quick to suggest that the teams don’t like Bernie because they themselves do not like him. The truth is that Bernie has done a lot for the sport. Under his direction, the sport has rapidly expanded, and what’s more, it has sustained that expansion. Despite each and every single complaint about Bernie’s business model, races have consistently remained on the calendar for years. It wasn’t until the recession that it became a problem, and Bernie couldn’t have predicted that.

      • Mike (@mike) said on 25th March 2012, 5:34

        Details are in this article, http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98347

        I believe what I said to be perfectly valid. I think you are taking my comment out of context, I’m not criticizing Bernie at all. I’m just saying that the new deal is not the right direction, I believe, for F1. And that the teams should be banding together to get a mutually better result, rather than fighting over the scrapes that Bernie dangles in front of them.

        The source I have is the best one I know of, ergo, I will base my opinion on that. As will most people until more information becomes available. As you do on many topics.

        the sport has rapidly expanded

        While that was once true, I think it now prospers in spite of, rather than due to Bernie.

      • BasCB (@bascb) said on 25th March 2012, 6:15

        I think it might be a case of teams like McLaren and Lotus knowing Bernie had them beaten the moment he reached Ferrari, and Red Bull. And instead of putting up a fight, they chose the easier, and better one for the short run. And both of them got nice benefits in the deal as well.
        Force India is not currently in a position to fight anything when they can get a secured flow of money from one source for multiple years right now.
        Maybe after the deal ends, and Bernie will no longer be there, these teams will act differently, although its not hard to see how they will be divided and conquered once again.

        I agree with @mike, that its not the perfect solution for the sport as such, because it means not much change in the way about half of the revenue flows out each year. And crunches tracks for abhorrent race fees, instead of allowing them to build a good crowd to be a viable enterprise.

        The Autosport article builds on information revealed by Adam Cooper yesterday. The interesting part is where its about Mercedes reasons and thinking behind not signing (no doubt Williams will be disappointed to lose out on the bonusses as well).
        The question is, how much does Bernie fear that anti-competition lawsuit – it will certainly disrupt any floating ideas while going. Mercedes is are just about the only ones in the sport, because ultimately they could quit and the do have to money to hold out for it.

        • Mike (@mike) said on 25th March 2012, 6:40

          I’ve always liked the idea that tracks pay a much smaller fee, but also pay a set percentage of whatever profit they make.

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 25th March 2012, 6:43

          But a) we still don’t know the terms being offered, and b) this is the first stage of negotiating an agreement that will likely take six months to fine-tune to make everyone happy, so nothing is set in stone. The teams have agreed in principle, which means they are happy with the general conditions of the agreement, and everyone can start looking forward to the specifics of the new Concorde.

          • BasCB (@bascb) said on 25th March 2012, 7:26

            Everyone? Not everyone …

            From what I saw in the Sky article (that was still online after being pulled) and what Adam Cooper, Autosport and Saward wrote about the deal its pretty clear what is on offer. It means RB gets extra money for being double champions post 2008, Ferrari and Lotus get money for winning both the constructors and the drivers championship (and possibly the option of shares) repeatedly, McLaren will get something for the 2008 championship and for the 2012 one :-) and they get money for not changing their names.

            As Mercedes have both changed names, never won multiple championships etc. and Williams have not been winning anything much after 2000 both of them would have to settle for a significantly smaller amount of money.

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 25th March 2012, 8:33

            @bascb

            As Mercedes have both changed names, never won multiple championships etc. and Williams have not been winning anything much after 2000 both of them would have to settle for a significantly smaller amount of money.

            That makes sense. As you say, they have not won multiple World Championships. Mercedes are only in their third year of competition, and Williams haven’t done much since 2000. So what right do they have to hold out their hands and say “give us more money” when they have done nothing to justify it? After all, Mercedes have won nothing since they joined in 2010. HRT have won nothing since they joined in 2010. Therefore, you can make a case for Mercedes and HRT receiving the same amount of money. Which means Mercedes would get considerably less than they deserve, or HRT get considerably more.

            This appears to be an attempt by Bernie to reset the historical multiplier. Rather than going from 1950, he wants to go from 2000. And you can understand the reasoning – the historical multiplier gives teams like McLaren and Williams massive bonuses for participating in the sport despite not having won a constructors’ title for fifteen years. I think you’ll find that Bernie is trying to encourage teams to be more competitive by rewarding them for recent success rather than simply trading on their historical reputation.

          • BasCB (@bascb) said on 26th March 2012, 9:23

            After all, Mercedes have won nothing since they joined in 2010.

            HRT have won nothing since they joined in 2010. Therefore, you can make a case for Mercedes and HRT receiving the same amount of money. Which means Mercedes would get considerably less than they deserve, or HRT get considerably more.

            @prisoner-monkeys, but that same outfit did win a world championship in the last few years, so I would say that is an achievement that should be rewarded as well.
            We all know Bernie is not into simple strategies, he knows full well, why he is rewarding the likes of Ferrari and Red Bull but not necessarily Mercedes, with his proposal.

  8. joshua brown (@mrferret) said on 25th March 2012, 5:49

    Gotta laugh at Heidfeld haha, webber and vettel where bang on before blown diffuser and it seems webber has the advantage now that its gone, webs race pace last race was pretty good, just need to pray for a good start.

    At the end of the day though whos still in F1?…

  9. BasCB (@bascb) said on 25th March 2012, 5:53

    Nice interviews with the Lotus guys. Yesterday I thought the fire had not been that serious, apart from damaging some equipment, but from what RoGro says, it could have had both drivers driving in Vettel’s helmets and wearing who knows what overalls:

    Our security guard did a fantastic job to get in and save most of our equipment. He managed to salvage the helmets which was obviously important for Kimi and myself, but we only have one balaclava and two sets of overalls left to use as the others smell so bad you can’t go near anyone!

    And Kimi seems to have really found his place at Lotus. I like the way he reacts to the question about Ferrari, that’s his typical Kimi style.

  10. Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 25th March 2012, 6:39

    And now it’s time for the Red Bull after-school special! Christian Horner’s message to the team is that if they believe in themselves, they will know how to ride a bike!

  11. IDR (@idr) said on 25th March 2012, 6:51

    Happy birthday to Gilherme Texeira and to Marc!

  12. AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 25th March 2012, 7:50

    I imagine Rosberg will come good this season. He’s probably pinching himself at the thought of a race winning car. He’s not had that luxury yet and I guess that knowing you CAN win increases the pressure significantly.

    • Robbie (@robbie) said on 26th March 2012, 15:35

      While I too think that NR will come good this season, I’m not convinced this is a race-winning car…quali winning perhaps, due to the DRS trickery they have which benefits them the most when they can use DRS at will.

      But their race pace? Leaves something to be desired.

      But that said, I agree there might be more pressure on NR…which is good…drivers can only win a WDC when they have proved they can handle the pressure at it’s greatest…if NR is under more pressure than he has ever been, then that is a good thing…he and we need to see what he can do when the pressure climbs.

      I also think that all NR was guilty of was a bit of tire lockup on his hot lap, and in a field that is much closer that 2 or 3 tenths that it cost him proved to mean about a 4 to 6 spot penalty on the grid. No tire lockup and he’s right up there with MS. He knows it. That’s F1. And this year those kinds of mistakes are more costly than last year.

  13. OOliver said on 25th March 2012, 8:44

    After championing FOTA for so long and the Merits of working together, I was sirprised Withmarsh had signed an agreement. It is noe everyman for himself.
    Mercedes may be the biggest loser.
    It also confirms HRT’s view that FOTA was not interested in the smaller teams.
    No more F1 constructors UNION.

    Lets assume the rest of FOTA had gone on to start their own series, it would have been, Alonso/Massa, Vettel/Webber, kobayashi/Perez, Ricciardo/Vergne… versus…. Hamilton/Button, Schumacher/Rosberg, Raikinnen/Grosjean, Maldonado/Senna, Di Resta/Hulkenberg, Kovalainen/Petrov, De la Rosa/ Karthkeyan, Glock/Pic.

    The F1 teams have brought about their own subjugation one more time.

Add your comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

All comments must abide by the comment policy. Comments may be moderated.
Want to post off-topic? Head to the forum.
See the FAQ for more information.