Narain Karthikeyan, HRT, Sepang, 2012

Karthikeyan penalised for Vettel collision

2012 Malaysian Grand PrixPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Narain Karthikeyan, HRT, Sepang, 2012Narain Karthikeyan has been penalised 20 seconds in the Malaysian Grand Prix.

The HRT driver was handed the penalty following contact between him and Sebastian Vettel during the race.

Karthikeyan’s penalty relegates him to last behind team mate Pedro de la Rosa.

Vettel, who suffered a puncture and brake damage in the collision, said: “[To] lose the race how I did is very frustrating. Some people need to look more where they are going.”

See the updated race classification.

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Image ?? HRT F1 Team

161 comments on “Karthikeyan penalised for Vettel collision”

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  1. To be honest, it’s a moot point. Both of them caused the accident and the penalty makes no difference to anything.

    Had NK not moved behind Vettel, Vettel would not have hit him, I think we can all agree on this much. However, had Vettel not cut in front of NK so eagerly then again, the incident would not have happened. The combination of both driving without thinking very clearly led to the crash. I don’t know really where to stand on the penalty. At the end of the day it was a blue flag situation, there is a duty to move out the way; but when you factor in Vettel’s contribution to the cause of the accident the application of a penalty seems harsh.

    Like you all say, why give a penalty that makes no difference? It’s simple, it’s a compromise. It doesn’t affect HRT’s constructors position really, few cars retired from this race meaning there is plenty of opportunity to score higher positions at a later race. And the application of a penalty also appeases those at Red Bull Racing. Now the stewards can say, ‘we gave a penalty, what more do you want?’

    Thoughts anyone?

    1. I share your opinion that both drivers should take some of the blame. As such, I don’t agree with any outcome where fault is allocated to one party alone. Even if the penalty is toothless.

  2. Never a penalty, both to blame partially, just a silly way to lose 12 points which would’ve been useful. Never mind, chins up and 18 more races to go

  3. At first I thought it was Vettel’s fault, having seen that reply it looks more 50/50, but a penalty for Narain seems a bit harsh – ultimately, in my view, regardless of where Narain was, Vettel moved over too early.

    I guess it’s easy to penalise a backmarker for a collision like this though, on the grounds that they should have done more to get out of the way.

  4. Watched the collision again and I think Vettel only has himself to blame. He saw Karthikeyan had run wide, so he should have taken everything a bit more cautious.

    1. Totally agree. Vettel brought that one on himself. It is not only the car being passed that is obliged to leave room enough for the other car is it?

      Frankly, Vettels comments only cements my view of him as a spoiled little brat.

      1. I think he did leave enough room, but Narain had some wheelspin and had to correct the car, that’s what he says at least. Vettel didn’t do anything wrong, but it wouldn’t have happened had he been more careful.

        1. F1fanNL (@)
          26th March 2012, 0:03

          So every time a faster car laps a slower one the faster car has to be ready for the slower car messing it up and steering into the back of the faster car?

          That doesn’t make sense. Karthikeyan should have gone off the power the moment he felt the car lose grip. Not throw it back onto the track.

          I don’t see how Vettel could have possibly anticipated Karthikeyan would be going too wide and would almost lose the car.

          1. @f1fannl No, not every time.

            Karthikeyan went off the track in that corner and was returning. Also, it was wet. Therefore it was not the usual ‘lapping a backmarker’. Vettel wasn’t at fault, but he could’ve seen the danger and avoided it.

            Similar to Singapore last year, when he was in the pits. It was Lotus’ mistake to let Kovalainen out in the path of Vettel, but Vettel was clever enough to see it coming and backed off.

          2. That’s not the same. Vettel was coming towards the Lotus pitbox there. Whatever was happening happened in his field of vision. You can’t expect Vettel to keep an eye on every back marker he passes. Even when it’s wet.

            It’s the responsibility of the back marker to get out of the way and let the faster car through safely. If Vettel had moved across he would have had some blame. He didn’t, case closed, Karthikeyan’s fault.

          3. Vettel saw him returning on the track. It was Narain’s fault, but Vettel could have easily thought better of it and avoided it and finished the race in 4th or 3rd.

  5. To say I’m bemused is an understatement. Sure, Karthikeyan didn’t back off, but from his view Vettel was ahead so why bother. Vettel just carelessly moved back at him. I’ll just say this: if it had been the other way round, with Karthikeyan taking out Vettel, there would be no penalty.

    All told, though, Karthikeyan was one of the day’s unsung heroes. He ran 4th briefly, and even if that was through pit strategy, he was still there. He’s always been good in the wet, and this was more evidence of that. Good job overall from a driver fir whom I have an ever increasing amount of respect.

    1. What I meant to say was “with Vettel taking out Karthikeyan”. It’s been a long day.

    2. F1fanNL (@)
      26th March 2012, 0:07

      “Sure, Karthikeyan didn’t back off, but from his view Vettel was ahead so why bother.”

      Why bother? Were they racing each other? No. karthikeyan could have easily gone off the power when he felt the car lost grip on the curb. In stead he throws it back on the track.

      1. Mallesh Magdum
        26th March 2012, 10:33

        @F1fanNL The rule is “Backmarkers must get off the racing line” not “get off power”….Vettel squeezed Karthikeyan way too much….Hope Vettel learns to behave off-track

      2. if you come off the power when the car loses grip you spin, so nk would have prob taken him out in a big way. vettel just needed to be a bit more wise does not matter if for position or blue flag you make sure your far away from people in damp/wet conditions.

        1. This is absolute grade A cow poo poo. When you hit the brakes with a wheel or two on a slippery surface you spin, not by letting go of the throttle. If that were the case we would see them spinning round every corner or so…

          Karthikeyan made the mistake of keeping the power on and moving to the right. If he had simply lifted his right foot he would have slotted in behind Vettel.

    3. You must be kidding saying that NK is good on Wet conditions , right?
      He was 3-4 sec/lap slower then De La Rosa after the restart, he was about 8 seconds slower then the front runners. Even in the dry his times were comparable with those in Gp2..
      He was by far the slowest driver on track. How do all these make him a rain-master?

  6. Whoever’s fault it was, I’m hugely disappointed to see Sebastian make an obscene gesture twice on camera – he should be punished for unsportsmanlike conduct/bringing the sport into disrepute.

    1. I agree, It was very disappointing behaviour even if it was Narain’s fault.

    2. +1

      This is twice now. Last time it was against Webber in 2010 in Turkey. The same too early move as if he has no spatial awareness of his car dimensions.

    3. +1 COTD to be honest.

      Even the football this would have been punished by a ban.

  7. The incident itself wasn’t as bad as Vettel’s words afterwards. Being involved in an incident (I’m refusing to use the word victim, because I find it to be at no one’s fault at best) is one thing, calling the other party involved an idiot (or gurke – cucumber in his native German) is other. And that’s it when it comes to Vettel’s sportsmanship and attitude of a true champion. Go to Button’s reaction to collision with Karthikeyan for further reference.

    When I was talking about the current situation of Vettel not having superior car will show his true value I was referring only to his racing results. Alonso proved today how a champion in a bad car should drive. However, the situation also tests Vettel’s character. After two races, he seems to be failing on both fronts.

    1. F1fanNL (@)
      26th March 2012, 0:10

      Hmmm,… Almost like how Alonso ‘dealt’ with his trouble in 2007.

      Yes, poor form from Vettel. Totally unlike other champions….

      Maybe it’s because he’s black.

    2. @cyclops_pl @f1fannl

      I think his season my be like Alonsos 07 and to some degree hamiltons 11.
      Coming off the back of last season where he clearly a mile ahead of everyone Vettel is always going to struggle to aclimatise to the fact that he is not top dog now and that he’s mixing it up with the others.

      Im sure some GP driver said something like “A true winner should always be a sore loser”. If losing doesnt hurt, then you shouldnt be there (yes you can be a gentleman about it also but different strokes for different folks I guess).

      I think Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel think they are the best and get truely upset when they get beaten

  8. Karthikeyan isn’t good enough or professional enough to be in F1. These are not the first times he has just gotten in the way of cars and drivers actually trying to race. I remember a few incidences where he was under Blue Flag lost in his own little world and took forever to let the lead car lap him.

    1. @Selbbin
      Dude, you are way out of line man! NK complied with the 107% rule so he is obviously good enough to be there!
      I guess you must just be a bit bitter because you might think he ruined JB´s race…. It was the other way around! JB messed up his own race… NK was in fourth and fighting for position…
      If you want to question his professionality, then JB being a “professional” driver should have known that with a far superior McLaren, there was no need to enter the corner the way he did… He was going to have DRS and the HRT has no KERS, so who´s fault is it buddy???
      I guess in the end… you´re just bitter…

      1. I completely agree that Button’s crash was his own fault. That made it even more frustrating. But I am talking about Karthikeyan’s history in the sport so far, and his career so far, and not just this one race.

  9. From what i saw it was not Vettels fault. Unlike the incident in Istanbul, I could see no incriminating steering input, and he hadnt understeered into Kathikeyan’s front wing, so I do thing the blame is at NK’s door. I dont even think his reaction in the cockpit immdiently after was unduly bad. It was the statement given to the press, well after the incident and after the race ended which blackened Vettels image.
    He had enough time to calm down and at least put on a dimplomatic facade – but like an idiot, he decided to throw around a stupid weak insult. It was like Marko’s reaction at Istanbul. He should have known better – he wasnt in the tense environment of the cockpit, had more angles to view the Vettel-Webber incident and yet still inexplicibley threw Webber – a team member – under the bus. It was that – and not Vettel inferring Webber was carzy or storming into the motor home that disgusted me. Hed just lost a possible race vistory, and the disspointment was still raw. We can all understand that.
    I want to see more emotion from the drivers. Its most pure to see the immediete ecstasy of victory, despodency, dissapoint an anger etc. Coming out well after the event and when emotions should have damped down and you should be more circumspect, and then acting like a child, is not we want to see. Thats not the drivers being more human. Thats unprofessional, and daresay unmanly, for the want of a better word.

    1. You “want to see more emotion from the drivers” but you also think Vettel should have put on a “diplomatic facade”?

      You want the moon on a stick!

  10. Narain’s fault, but the disgusting way Vettel conducted himself afterwards is far worse. I thought he’d really matured as a person in 2011 – it looks like he’s only a nice guy when he’s winning.

  11. And again we see, as often happens, an ego damaged by a silly mistake and major finger pointing. How Johnny and the other stewards reached their decision is beyond me. I watched the race and immediately commented that Vettel had got it wrong. He drove right over the HRT front wing. At those speeds the overtaking driver, the more experienced driver, the 2x world champ, the “best ” in the world, should have been more aware and less aggressive. In my opinion Vettel is the idiot, not for the mistake, but for trying to push it off as someone else’s fault, again. Spoilt Brat springs to mind, again.

  12. A touch of racism creeping in there, not justified. I think people will always take the side of the underdog when the bullying tactics of Ex-world champions is brought to question. Looking back, I agree, Hamilton was a nasty driver last year, and the year before, and before that too. Schumacher has many times been guilty of “sidewalling” slower cars, Vettel hasn’t needed to get nasty for 2 years leading from the front, but I think this year we will see a different side of him. Alonso at times has been involved in some fraccas, and always the slower, less experienced driver is criticised. Top level drivers easily forget that at one time they were struggling at the back and holding up the top ten.

    1. @abuello-paul

      A touch of racism creeping in there


      1. It appears the remark, which had tones of anti Vettel remarks due to him being German, and comparing Hamiltons quoted outburst, was removed.

    2. Andy M (@immaturestudent)
      26th March 2012, 10:18

      Hamilton is an aggressive driver, not a nasty driver.

      As for the HRT, forget the 107% rule. They are too slow in the corners and should not be out there racing. Their lap times were 7 seconds+ slower at some points which is too dangerous. The experiment for the newer teams seems to have failed in HRT’s case… and Marussia are not a lot better.

      1. @immaturestudent

        forget the 107% rule. They are too slow in the corners and should not be out there racing. Their lap times were 7 seconds+ slower at some points which is too dangerous.

        First of all, being seven seconds off the pace in a race where the fastest lap was 1’40.7 is as near as makes no difference 107%.

        Why, in your view, is seven seconds automatically “dangerous”? What about six seconds? 6.5s? 6.9s?

        As I always say: at Le Mans they race on a much narrower track in the dark with cars up to 29% slower than the pole sitter. And some of the drivers being lapped are amateurs.

        If they can cope with that, F1 drivers can cope with far worse than a 7% difference.

          Notable inclusions:
          ’99 french, Damon Hill
          ’01 Belgian, Alonso
          several Jordan cars were excluded over the years. In those days the rule was exercised almost every race, not once or twice a season.

  13. Anyone remembered 2005 Turkish GP? Karthikeyan made a same mistake to Montoya on 55th lap. 7:16

  14. penalised 20 seconds?? well thats stuffed his race…

    Vettel allegedly called him a cucumber, i dont understand. Its all apples and oranges for me

  15. Bad luck for Vettel He was actually catching Hamilton before his coming together. I have recorded the race and it is shown in the split times shown on the TV

  16. When passing back markers, more care should be taken by the driver in the quicker car. In this case, both were in the wrong – both were ultimately penalised – poetic justice for poor driving.

  17. no matter whose faul was it I was laughing so hard about the cucumber comment :D I lvoe how F1 is entertainig even outside the track :D

  18. no matter whose faul was it I was laughing so hard about the cucumber comment :D I love how F1 is entertaining even outside the track :D

  19. Well for me it rather looked, that both of the drivers were not aware what might happen. First of all Khartikeyan, knowing that his HRT is much slower than the RedBull, expected Vettel to be much quicker. On the other hand Vettel expect himself to be much faster and didn’t expect Khartikeyan being so close… for me it looks like an a usual racing incident…..not worth of any penalty for either driver….and I think Vettel should reconsider what kind of stupid mistakes he did himself in the past (Webber, when Vettel was drivig TorroRosso; Istanbul and Button in Spa)….it proves that, really, he’s a nice mature guy, when he’s winning and has a dominat car….otherwise a small boy from Heppenheim, who’s in his adolescense…..

  20. PS: we still saw the Vettel-Finger………but the middle one (yeah!)

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