Rosberg, Hamilton and Alonso cleared over incidents

2012 Bahrain Grand Prix

Nico Rosberg, Mercedes, Bahrain, 2012The stewards of the Bahrain Grand Prix have taken no action against Nico Rosberg, Lewis Hamilton or Fernando Alonso for incidents involving the drivers during the race.

The stewards investigated two separate incidents, both involving Rosberg as he defended his position from each of the drivers by moving to the right of the track on the approach to turn four.

Regarding the Hamilton collision the stewards determined the following (Rosberg was car eight and Hamilton car four):

1. The driver of car eight commenced his move to the right after the exit from turn three and moved to the right in a constant and continuous straight line manner, not making any sudden movements (as evidenced by telemetry and video evidence) and;
2. At the time he commenced his move, car four was behind him and no part of his car was alongside car eight and??
3. The driver of car eight made the move to the right prior to the driver of car four making the same move and;
4. For more than half of the distance travelled by car eight in moving in a straight line towards the right hand edge of the track, car four remained behind car eight and??
5. Because the delta speed between the two cars was quite significant it was difficult for car eight to detect the exact position of car four in relation to his own car;
6. Had a significant portion of car four been alongside that of car eight whilst car four still remained within the confines of the track, then the actions of car eight may not have been considered legitimate.

The stewards decision on the Rosberg-Alonso incident was almost identical:

1. The driver of car eight commenced his move to the right after the exit from turn three and moved to the right in a constant and continuous straight line manner, not making any sudden movements (as evidenced by telemetry and video evidence) and;
2. At the time he commenced his move, car five was behind him and no part of his car was alongside car eight and;
3. The driver of car eight made the move to the right prior to the driver of car five making the same move and;
4. For more than half of the distance travelled by car eight in moving in a straight line towards the right hand edge of the track, car five remained behind car eight and;
5. Because the delta speed between the two cars was quite significant it was difficult for car eight to detect the exact position of car five in relation to his own car;
6. No part of car five was alongside that of car eight.

Alonso made his displeasure with Rosberg clear after the race, saying: “I can only say that if, instead of such a wide run-off area there had been a wall, I?m not sure I?d be here now to talk about it.”

2012 Bahrain Grand Prix


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181 comments on Rosberg, Hamilton and Alonso cleared over incidents

  1. tharris19 (@tharris19) said on 23rd April 2012, 1:21

    I find it difficult to blame Button or Hamilton’s driving for McLaren’s current predicament. I don’t think we know all the variables that make up a good drive from team to team. However, we do know that McLaren has been plagued with poor race management over the past few years.
    This team has lost no less than four races due to flawed race strategy and pit stop errors.

  2. DaveW (@dmw) said on 23rd April 2012, 2:21

    Ill just observe that when Hamilton passed vettel in China, and the latter with his second move put Hamilton right on the track verge, he still left some space there. It would have been insane to do otherwise. Technically Hamilton should have ceded the position but rosbergs tactic was beyond the pale. I think this is why they let Hamilton’s pass stand. Hard cases make bad rules.

  3. Mallesh Magdum (@malleshmagdum) said on 23rd April 2012, 2:53

    Rosberg deserved a reprimand. What would the stewards have done had this been Paul? F1’s new rule- ‘win a race, and do anything in the next one’?

  4. quick_kill said on 23rd April 2012, 2:59

    He was “off the racing line”, but no advantage!
    You only get those when cutting a corner.. geez!

    • Mads (@mads) said on 23rd April 2012, 9:45

      @quick_kill
      In terms of laptime, no that is true. But he got a place to overtake, which he would otherwise not have had, and a piece of “road” that Rosberg would have no way of defending.

  5. Stevensan said on 23rd April 2012, 3:19

    I still dont for the life of me understand how what Rosberg did was legal? I’ve watched it over and over and, given my interpretation of the new rules Rosberg clearly did not leave a car’s width. It was obvious that both Hamilton and Alonso were going to try and pass there and were already committed to the pass, so Rosberg’s actions clearly forced them off the track.

    In a way i’m glad its been left alone as a racing incident, but this decision effectively means what was said preseason is a load of rubbish.

    C.Whiting – March 2012 – “We don’t want to get into silly arguments about centimetres so we’ve decided the defending driver must leave at least one car width on the racing line otherwise he will be judged to have made a second move and penalised accordingly. We need to have drivers giving each other space on the track – otherwise we risk dangerous collisions.
    http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/03/11/fia-explains-defensive-driving-rules-clarification/

    • Nick said on 23rd April 2012, 7:37

      Once again, it appears the new regulations are clearly not understood!

      The new regulations state that you must leave at least a car width when returning to the racing line after having moved off it to defend your position. Why is this so hard for people to understand??

      In other words, once nico had moved to his right, he was required to leave at least a car width once he returned to the racing line on his left. As both Hamilton and Alonso were not along side, he was not required to leave any room on his right, unless they were alongside, and as demonstrated by the stewards, they weren’t.

      Whether or not they were committed to the move is irrelevant. Rosberg closed the door, FAIRLY and SQUARLY. It was Hamilton and Alonso’s decision to continue with that move – their problem, not Rosbergs!

      What a ridiculous statement to say that they were committed to the move so Rosberg should have left them room! So, on that basis, if a driver makes a move to one side or the other, the lead driver should just let them through, no matter how far behind they are??

      What a load of *&^%!

    • Nick said on 23rd April 2012, 7:43

      And as far as it being obvious that Hamilton and Alonso were going to pass on that side – once again wrong!
      If you look at the replays, as it appears not many people have, you will see that Rosberg moves first, as found by the stewards. So the only thing that should have been obvious, was that Hamilton and Alonso should have realised that Rosberg was closing the door and there was no room (other than off the track) to make a pass.

      Like someone has previously pointed out, the only reason Hamilton and Alonso tried to pass on that side was because of the HUGE run off area. If there had been a wall or gravel trap on that side, like most tracks, they wouldn’t have tried the move on.

      The only stupid driving during these incidents was by Hamilton and Alonso. Hamilton clearly should have been penalised for passing whilst off the track.

      • Robbie (@robbie) said on 23rd April 2012, 13:57

        Agreed again, Nick.

      • Bernard (@bernard) said on 23rd April 2012, 18:29

        Well argued, but not true and shockingly disingenuous. They were as much alongside Rosberg as Barrichello was with Schumacher in Hungary – plus they had greater closing speeds than Barrichello did. Was Barrichellos driving also stupid, should he have been punished? :rolleyes:

        Evidently some people will see what they want to see and regurgitate what they’ve consumed without seeing what is reasonable or more importantly what is true.

        “Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as more than one change of direction to defend a position, deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.”

        • Nick (@nick101) said on 23rd April 2012, 18:51

          @Bernard

          You are correct, some people will see what they want to see – apparently you are one of the biggest culprits.

          In fact, they were not alongside Rosberg at all. Like I’ve said a hundred times today, watch the bloody replays! They showed Alonso’s on board replay on the sky coverage after the race. At no time did alonso even have his wing tip alongside Rosberg. It’s there on film for the world to see. I truly don’t understand how anyone can argue the contrary if they have actually seen the footage? Simple explanation – you’ve done exactly what you’ve accused me of – running off at the mouth without any evidence.

          WATCH THE REPLAYS!

          P.S. You cant deliberately crowd a car beyond the edge of the track if he’s behind you!

          • “In fact, they were not alongside Rosberg at all. Like I’ve said a hundred times today, watch the bloody replays!”

            Hmm, i think YOU need to watch the footage again, Hamilton definatly has as much of his car alongside Rosberg as Barichello did on Schumacher, if not more so, and with far greater closing speeds.

            The difference though, Schumacher knew there was a wall there and left just enough room, anymore and we would have seen a serious incodent, Rosberg though, knowing there wasnt a wall directly alongside the white line, took a liberty. Maybe it was legal to the letter, but it was stupid and could have caused a massive accident.

            and, the wall that is alongside that part of the track is no further away from the circuit as the wall Senna hit at Imola. Just because a wall isnt directly on the white lines like Monaco, dosnt mean you can push a guy off track.

            “PS. You cant deliberately crowd a car beyond the edge of the track if he’s behind you!”

            Oh, you mean like Schumacher at Monza last year? Schumacher got told to leave a bit of room because he was crowding a car that was BEHIND him.

          • Nick (@nick101) said on 23rd April 2012, 20:57

            @N

            Agreed, Hamilton did end up alongside Rosberg – AFTER HE HAD LEFT THE TRACK! Whilst on the track though, he did not.

            What Roasberg did was not illegal, stupid or reckless. As I said earlier – WATCH THE DAMN FOOTAGE. Roasberg moves to the right FIRST. Hamilton followed him. Watch it! Rosberg gets at least half a car width to the righ before hamilton even moves. Hamilton followed Rosberg but Rosberg beat him to the line. How people are saying that Rosberg pushed him off the track is a joke. Rosberg got there first. Hamilton decided to continue the move off the track. His problem, and by rights, illegal.

            And once again N, you are wrong. Schumacher was not warned about crowding another driver, he was warned about making too many changes of direction – different thing.

          • Bernard (@bernard) said on 24th April 2012, 12:08

            @nick101

            “You cant deliberately crowd a car beyond the edge of the track if he’s behind you”

            Nick, seriously – a little rationality goes a long way. It would appear that many people (including some stewards apparently) think ‘being alongside’ is important in an overtaking manouvere, that is a fallacy, and when ‘significant portions’ of alongsided-ness is added it just gets utterly ridiculous. Closing speed and positioning are the fundamentals of overtaking, not some illogical tipping point/seesaw nonsense.

            Consider the following: F1 cars reach speeds of almost 100 metres a second, that equates to half a football pitch in little more than the literal blink of an eye. They have front wings that are almost six feet wide and equally as far ahead of the driver, they are also way below the drivers line of sight.

            Being ‘alongside’ is totally meaningless in rapidly changing situations that hinge on quick reactions like those during overtaking. At such distances/speeds if the gap closes there is nothing a driver can do other than hit the brakes, go off track or collide – all of which would be impediments. The stewards even suggested that the differing speed deltas was somehow in Rosbergs favour!

            If Schumacher was deemed to have illegitimately impeded in Hungary, then so should Rosberg. For all intents and purposes, his defending was no different, it’s as simple as that really. He squeezed and squeezed with no consideration for his rivals right to not be impeded – after pushing Barrichello off at least Schumacher stopped moving over when he reached the white line!

            F1 2012 Bahrain – Rosberg – Alonso
            F1 2012 Bahrain – Rosberg – Hamilton
            F1 2010 Hungary – Schumacher – Barrichello

            Camera angles can be deceptive so I included the Barrichello images for comparison. As better images surface maybe we’ll get a clearer picture but it doesn’t alter the logic that drivers should leave room when travelling in close proximity to another car, be it in front, behind or to the side.

            1/ Look where the cars are relative each other and to the track edge.
            2/ Compare the Rosberg images with the Schumacher images.
            3/ Is Barrichello ‘alongside’ before he stupidly decides to ‘pass whilst off track’?

            As is clear and almost universally accepted with the Barrichello incident, is it unreasonable to believe that Hamilton and Alonso were sufficiently alongside that Rosbergs manoeuvre was the reason they went off track?

            The fact Rosberg was not even reprimanded only highlights the stewards glaring ineptitude.

            Section 20.4 of the Sporting Regulations is there for a reason.

          • Nick (@nick101) said on 24th April 2012, 14:19

            Oh my God Bernard, are you even serious?

            If you think there is no difference between the Rosberg incidents and the Schumacher incidents, I really don’t know why I bother wasting my time.

            So being alongside has nothing to do with overtaking??? HAHAHAHA

            Right, so how exactly do you overtake someone without being alongside them at some point? I tell you what Bernard, we have to get some physisits involved here because apparently you have figured out a way to transport matter from one place to another instantaneously!! WOW, you are clever! Best you prepare for the Nobel prize my friend. What a bloody ridiculous statement!

            In fact, the Rosberg Schumacher incidents are very different. Do me a favour, acutally look at the replays would you? Now I know you put up some nice pretty little pictures but how bout you look at the footage and see how the incident actually unfolded?

            Rosberg was not reacting to an overtaking move by Hamilton, he anticipated the move and went defensive BEFORE Hamilton made a move. He made a bee line for the right hand side of the track and Hamilton followed. Obviously Hamilton had already decided that he was going to pass on that side but Rosberg beat him to it. Plain and simple. Hamilton made a bad dicision and should have aborted the move before it even began or at least half way through the move, just like Raikkonen did when he attempted the pass on Vettel. He saw the door was being closed and used that mysterious OTHER pedal – the brake.

            Once agian, YES it is unreasonable believe that Hamilton and Alonso were sufficiently alongside that Rosbergs manoeuvre was the reason they went off track.

            Why – BECAUSE THE BLOODY FOOTAGE SHOWS THEY WERENT ALONGSIDE - In Alonso’s case, he never was, in Hamiltons case, yes he did eventually get alongside, but not until he had left the track! Once again, they showed Alonso’s on board reply of the incident after the race and it clearly shows, and was commented upon, that he didn’t get alongside!! WATCH THE BLOODY FOOTAGE!!!

            Once again you are wrong Bernard. The Schumacher incident was HUGELY different.
            1. There was a big friggen wall there
            2. Rubens made the clear overtaking manouver before Schumacher made the defensive move. Schumacher reacted and squeezed Rubens, unlike Rosberg, who went defensive before Hamilton even made a move.
            3. Rubens got alongside Schumacher whilst still on the track, Hamilton did not.

            And yes Bernard, getting alongside IS important and has EVERYTHING to do with overtaking.

            Your own argument falls down on itself when you talk about closing speeds. You are basically saying that because a car is coming up on another car at a great rate of knots, the lead car should just leave room for the following car, else casue a big accident or ‘impede’ the following driver. Well, in this case Rosberg moved FIRST, he went defensive BEFORE Hamilton pulled a move, so why is it that you think Roasberg was being wreckless and not Hamilton. They were both travelling at high speed but Rosberg moved into a position FIRST and was then followed by Hamilton. Why is it Rosbergs responsibility to anticipate where Hamilton will go just so he can leave room?? What a joke.

            In this case, as far as I’m concerned, Hamilton was at fault. He was following and had full view of Rosberg. Rosberg could only see what was in his mirrors. Hamilton would have clearly seen Rosberg move first and he would have seen how quickly he was moving. It was Hamiltons responsibility to see what was happening and get out of it. Instead, he decided that he wanted to pass on the inside and gave chase. This was a mistake, and considering that he ended up off the track and in the dust, I consider THIS to be the wreckless driving within this incident. If he had lost control on the dust he could have easily hit the upcoming wall or Rosberg.

            Hamilton put himself in that position and it was his fault entirely that he ended up off the track.

            Do me a favour Bernard, watch the replay and tell me who moves first. Rosberg gets nearly half a car width to the right before Hamilton even moves. Is that correct or not?

          • Nick (@nick101) said on 24th April 2012, 14:28

            Oh, one other thing, if closing speed and positioning are the fundamentals, then I guess we should call the FIA and let them know.

            So, if two cars are just about to cross the start/finish line, but the following car is positioned just behind and to the right of the lead car, then regardless of who crosses the line first, the win should go to the following car, just as long as his closing speeds were high enough? Cause hey, closing speed and positioning are the real important thing, not whether one car is further up the road than the other eh?

            Nice philosophy there Bernard, you sound like a truly learned man!

          • Bernard (@bernard) said on 24th April 2012, 15:03

            @nick101

            You’re in fantasy land Nick, and your “watch the bloody footage” bleating is nothing but impetuous drivel, as is your assessment of said events.

            F1 2010 Hungary – Schumacher – Barrichello (onboard)

            1. There was a big friggen wall there
            2. Rubens made the clear overtaking manouver before Schumacher made the defensive move. Schumacher reacted and squeezed Rubens, unlike Rosberg, who went defensive before Hamilton even made a move.
            3. Rubens got alongside Schumacher whilst still on the track, Hamilton did not.

            1/ Irrelevant. The track is defined by white lines – not walls.
            2/ Not true.
            3/ There’s that ‘alongside’ word again I see. Besides – it also is not true.

          • Nick (@nick101) said on 24th April 2012, 15:23

            @Bernard

            How is wanting people to actually watch what happened as opposed to what they see in their minds impetuous drivel??

            Know I know that you have discovered instentaneous matter transportation, but for the rest of us on planet earth who all know that being alongside IS what passing is all about, here is Alonso’s on board footage –

            Alonso vs Rosberg (on board with Alonso)

            Can someone please point out to me when Alonso is alongside Rosberg. Or, failing that, why Alonso simply didn’t lift the accelerator or apply the brake, followed by a left hand down motion on the steering wheel?

            How is it that going off the track was his ONLY option in this case? If that is so, doesn’t really say much about the driving skills of a double world champ does it?

          • Nick (@nick101) said on 24th April 2012, 15:54

            @Bernard

            And another thing.

            In an earlier post you mentioned to consider the closing speeds of the cars during instentaneous matter transportation, oh sorry, I meant overtaking.

            Let’s do that.

            Considering the closing speed and the following drivers FULL view of the lead car, do you not think it’s more their responsibility to take make better decisions? I mean, everyone is on here saying that poor old Hamilton and Alonso were closing so fast that they had no option other than to go off track, well what about Rosberg?

            As has already been pointed out, in the instance with Hamilton, Rosberg quite clearly makes the move first. They are both travelling at huge speeds and both making aggressive moves accross the track, yet everyone is saying that it is the lead cars responsibility to make the best decision, with only the mirrors to see, not the following car who has full view?

            Why is it that Hamilton is not the one who makes the bad decision?

            In fact, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t there something in the regulations about the following car having responsibility…

          • Bernard (@bernard) said on 24th April 2012, 16:57

            @nick101

            How is wanting people to actually watch what happened as opposed to what they see in their minds impetuous drivel??

            Look up the meaning those words and maybe you’ll understand. You are implying that people who disagree with you, included me, have not watched the footage. You are also blindly ignoring any rationale in your statements.

            Thanks for the video, as I said previously it only adds to the clarity of the matter. A hamilton video would be equally welcome.

            Now maybe, just maybe I can point out (again) why both Alonso and Hamilton were sufficiently impeded that they went off-track.

            Alonso – Barrichello comparison

            At this point both Alonso and Barrichello have enough momentum and space to pass and as such they are entitled to attempt, over the following one tenth of a second they are denied that opportunity as the gap is closed in its entirety – both drivers clearly impeded in the process.

            How is it that going off the track was his ONLY option in this case? If that is so, doesn’t really say much about the driving skills of a double world champ does it?

            It doesn’t matter weather he brakes, turns or lifts at that stage. All of those actions would be a result of Rosbergs actions and as such constitute impeding.

            Remember F1 cars travel fast, they have huge front wings along way out in front, they have low cockpits in which the drivers cannot see below the tops of the front wheels.

            Alonso was close enough to warrant space, this talk of being ‘alongside’ is a fabrication brought about in the stewards report as is the ridiculous notion of ‘significant portions’ of being alongside, there is no mention of either in the regulations and from a drivers perspective it is totally unrealistic.

        • Nick (@nick101) said on 25th April 2012, 11:52

          God help me!

          PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE someone step in and help me explain!

          You say that Rosberg impeded Hamilton and Alonso – yes, he did – and he’s allowed to!! As long as he does it legally!

          You keep banging on about them being impeded, like it’s not allowed.

          Think about it Bernard, think!

          Everytime a driver defends his position against another car, he is impeding them!

          Drivers are not allowed to hinder other drivers by crowding them beyond the edge of the track or making abnormal changes of direction – none of which Rosberg did!

          You are clearly not interpreting 20.4 correctly.

          Think about it, if we use your logic, the following would also be true;

          A driver see’s another car attemting a pass on his right, the lead driver moves his car defensivley to the right to try and cut the other driver off and prevent the pass. He is too late and the following driver gets alongside before the lead driver can close the door fully. Is the lead driver now not impeded from completing his defensive manouver by the following driver?? Yes, of course he is, but there is nothing wrong with that.

          I’ve had enough now, my belly hurts from laughing too much at your logic and my head hurts too much from banging it agians the wall.

          Enjoy the rest of the season.

          P.S. The regulations don’t actually state anything about impeding. They state ‘hinder’. Yes, I know they mean essentially the same thing, but just putting it out there.

          • “You say that Rosberg impeded Hamilton and Alonso – yes, he did – and he’s allowed to!! As long as he does it legally!”

            Legal? Yes

            Stupid? Yes.

            “my head hurts too much from banging it agians the wall.”

            Lets hope we don’t see drivers heads banging against walls with defensive ‘legal’ moves like that again.
            “You say that Rosberg impeded Hamilton and Alonso – yes, he did – and he’s allowed to!! As long as he does it legally!”

            Legal? Yes

            Stupid? Yes.

            “my head hurts too much from banging it agians the wall.”

            Lets hope we don’t see drivers heads banging against walls with defensive ‘legal’ moves like that again.

          • whoops, stupid browser.

          • Bernard (@bernard) said on 25th April 2012, 15:32

            @nick101

            You say that Rosberg impeded Hamilton and Alonso – yes, he did – and he’s allowed to!! As long as he does it legally!

            Incorrect Nick, you’re confusing to different scenarios. Taking a defensive line is permitted the following is not:

            Section 16.1

            e) Forced a driver off the track
            f) Illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver
            g) Illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking

            They key implication factor being causality.

            The regulations also state:

            20.2

            “… For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the
            track edges are considered to be part of the track …

            “A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track

            “A driver may not deliberately leave the track without justifiable reason”

            20.4

            “Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted”

            Now bearing the above indisputably in mind:

            The stewards conclude that Rosberg did not illegitimately prevent or impede the overtakes in question. In fact as is quite apparent they did not implicate him in the slightest for the situations that unfolded.

            It is also clear that the stewards concluded that Hamilton did not have a ‘significant portion’ of his car ‘alongside’ before his entire car left the track as defined above.

            Yet they also imply that Hamilton had a ‘justifiable reason’ for going off track.

            Besides the lunacy of such an interpretation of the rules, many clearly disagree.

            “Lewis is completely taken off the track by Rosberg”
            “I think it’s something that shouldn’t be allowed”
            “[Alonso situation is] not quite the same as Lewis was at the side of Rosberg but at the end of the day [Rosberg] seems to be really, really pushing it there. [Alsonso] is not quite really there, but [Rosberg] is moving over and over and over and of course Alonso has to go off the track.”
            – Johnny Herbert (Former F1 driver and Advisor to the Stewards)

            “Certainly on Alonso, he was close enough behind, he’ll certainly be investigated. Did he drive him off? Did he impede him unfairly? You can defend your position but the other driver can’t have his nose alongside your rear tyre at the same time. I think Nico was definitely overly aggressive at all times there.”
            – Martin Brundle (Former F1 driver)

            “I thought the defence on Hamilton was much worse… I think that he forced Hamilton off the road. If I was a steward I would be saying ‘Listen, there is a limit, and that was over the limit – pushing a guy completely off the track. Defending your position, putting your car right up to the edge of the track is fine but actually running people off the road – I thought that was clear in the Regulations – it’s not allowed’.”
            – Damon Hill (1996 F1 World Champion)

            “You’re allowed to make a change of line to defend your position but you’re not allowed to force a car off the track, or crowd a car off it’s racing line. So Nico Rosberg has got to be careful, the stewards will simply unemotionally open the rulebook, read what’s there and take a decision.”
            – David Coulthard (Former F1 driver)

            “Rosberg blocking was ugly. It is incredible how F1 didn’t give him penalty.”
            – Bruno Junqueira (IndyCar driver and former F1 test driver)

            This is a dangerous assessment and one that will come back to haunt the FIA in the not too distant future, you can bet your last penny on it.

      • DaveW (@dmw) said on 23rd April 2012, 18:37

        The thing is, in practice, no following driver would necessarily expect the car in front, on a track this wide, to sweep the entire width of the track and even run off the course himself to defend. People do this at the start, because the Schumacher Chop is now standard procedure there, but it is not usually done in the race. The fact that both Hamilton and Alonso in separarte incidenets appeared to bear the same expectation is evidence that their assumption was reasonable. The fact that they let Hamilton go scot free, of all people, is clear evidence that they were sending a message to Rosberg that, while he was within the rule, his gain by penalizing Hamilton would have been ill-gotten. I think we basically all agree that 1. Rosberg’s move was legal, but 2. was nonetheless not cricket

    • Dylan said on 23rd April 2012, 7:46

      Yep you are clearly not understanding the new rule. You said that the defending driver “must leave at least one car width on the racing line otherwise he be deemed to make a second move“. Well Rosberg was making his first move into a position that was not on the racing line. If Rosberg, after moving all the way to one side of the track, then also proceeded to move to the other side of the track and did not leave 1 car width on the racing line, then it would be deemed illegal.

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 23rd April 2012, 8:23

      Stevenson – You’ve misunderstood the rules clarification from over the winter. See Nick’s explanation.

    • Tom Haxley (@welshtom) said on 23rd April 2012, 8:49

      What I dont get is everyone saying Hamilton should get a pen for going off the track and Rosberg did nothing wrong.

      Has anyone watched the footage? Is going from one side of the track to the other (and its a wide track) in less than half a second safe?

      If you watch carefully, Rosberg actually sticks 2 wheels on the sand off the track, clearly not in 100% control of the car, he swerved so drastically he couldnt physically stop it going off the track.
      What if he’d spun and caused an accident?

      Dangerous driving

      As far as im concerned the ins and outs of advantages off the track and defending the line are moot.

      Swerving across the track in such a drastic manner, clearly losing control of the car is far more important to discuss.

      • Exactly.

        Last year in Monza when Vettel passed around the outside of Alonso, people where saying that Alonso was on the ‘edge’ of what was safe/legal, and that was giving Vettel just about a cars width. Alonsos defense in that situation was forceful/strong, but not reckless.

        Rosberg was SO far right that he even had his own 2 wheels outside the track, this is reckless.

        People are going to use this ruling as a precedent now. As Alonso said on Twitter. Lets hope theres no serious accidents..

        and btw, for people saying Hamilton should be punished? Where was you people in Australia this year when Vettel went completly, all-4-wheels off circuit, to make the pass on Button?

        Dont give me no bull****, rules are rules, no??

        Hypocrits.

      • Robbie (@robbie) said on 23rd April 2012, 14:01

        @welshtom…NR was clearly in full control of his car. I would question whether cars/drivers that go off the track like LH and FA did when behind NR, were in fact in control of their cars, except that it does appear they put themselves there voluntarily.

      • Nick (@nick101) said on 23rd April 2012, 21:05

        @ N and Tom

        Right, so Rosberg was reckless?

        So I guess you’ll agree that Hamilton was even more reckless then? Surely you have to agree considering that Hamilton moved AFTER Rosberg, went MUCH further to the right and at a greater rate – surely Hamilton was FAR more reckless than Rosberg? Also take into account that Rosberg moved in this direction first and Hamilton followed him. It wasn’t a move that was started by Hamilton and ‘cut off’ by Rosberg at all. Rosberg saw Hamilton coming and anticipated where he would try and pass, on the inside of the following corner where most would try, and moved to the right to defend his position BEFORE Hamilton even moved.

        Clearly reckless by Hamilton. Surley you agree? I mean, after all, moving from one side of the track to the other in less than half a second isn’t safe, is it?

  6. Chris said on 23rd April 2012, 3:53

    Even when no car was beside him nico kept that same line

  7. OOliver said on 23rd April 2012, 4:04

    One can’t change the decision, but a reprimand for Rosberg was needed. This wasn’t the racing line, he was going to extremes to defend.
    I expect such from Maldonado and Massa.
    Hamilton passed him though while within the track limits.
    When did the FIA start using deltas to know how far alongside the driver ahead thought the driver behind was alongside him?

    5. Because the delta speed
    between the two cars was
    quite significant it was difficult
    for car eight to detect the exact
    position of car four in relation
    to his own car;

    how come they didn’t use that in Buemi vs Hedfeld, Germany.

    • Nick said on 23rd April 2012, 7:47

      So what if it wasn’t the racing line?

      If you stay on the racing line, you clearly would not be defending!

      I think that they should put a message out to all the drivers. ‘If you see Hamilton or Alonso coming, whatever you do, don’t defend, just let them through, after all, they are Hamilton and Alonso’.

      That way the fanboys won’t get their nickers in a twist when someone out drives their idols!

      • OOliver said on 23rd April 2012, 9:31

        F1 isn’t pop idols Nick.
        I referenced Buemi Vs Heidfeld.
        Because in that situation there was contact.
        I also listed the no5 item which they used in arriving at their decision.
        What it implies is that all is fair until there is contact.
        Do you for one second believe I want Rosberg to get a penalty?

        I have been watching F1 for over 25 years, I am no fanboy.

  8. mingmong said on 23rd April 2012, 4:29

    I like hard racing, no penalties needed. The only thing i did not like with this is when nico powered out across the track he actually goes off the track himself by a good meter which tells me he wasn’t fully in control of his maneuver. Drivers have to have trust in each other. For example Webber’s gutsy pass on Alonso through eau rouge last year. He said after the race he wouldn’t have pulled that move on anyone else knowing that Alonso is fully aware of his surroundings & boundaries. I think after last nights race the same cant be said for nico. I dont think he was fully in control. Dont get me wrong I like nico & his a excellent driver.

  9. Aditya (@) said on 23rd April 2012, 5:00

    Er…. sorry to be a party pooper here, but what about Alonso’s unsafe release from the pits? Was that cleared?

  10. Fisha695 (@fisha695) said on 23rd April 2012, 6:20

    While I’m not a fan of drivers forcing other drivers off the road, the big thing that stuck out to me (literally stuck out) was the Amrco protecting the access road.

    I’ve seen that angled Armco destroy NASCAR Stockcars (Watkins Glen 2011 David Reutimann & David Ragan on the final lap http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoLqfhgFj-w ). I wouldn’t want to even think about what would happen if a fragile open-wheel car would hit that wall head on at full speed.

  11. Ben73 (@ben73) said on 23rd April 2012, 8:03

    I think we are debating infringement of the wrong rule here. Leaving a cars width is only applicable when returning to the racing line. Hamilton did have very obviously four wheels off the track but as the stewards report says had no choice in the matter. That then means rosberg broke another rule in forcing another car to leave to confines of the track to take evasive action. Example although much slower hamilton forcing DIR of track last year in Hungary, resulting in a drive through for HAM. Yes the incidents were very different but in both cases the driver behind had no choice but to leave the track or hit the car in front.

  12. hollis257 (@hollis257) said on 23rd April 2012, 8:27

    It amazes me that people are considering who should get a penatly. Yes Hamilton and Alonso may have been off the track but they could not have gained an advantage from doing so. They did not cut the corner to shorten the track and will only have picked up dust and ruined there tyres…

    Anyway, isnt racing like this what we watch the sport for? I for one was on the edge of my seat enjoying every second of these overtakes and therefore am glad that the FIA have not imposed a penalty.

  13. Rob8k said on 23rd April 2012, 9:02

    Why is the majority of people have the feeling that a penalty should be handed out, whether its to Rosberg or Hamilton. If you want to really be picky about the situation then yes Hamilton did go off the track to pass but everyone here is talking about replays. I can imagine these situations go by in a flash during the race and drivers don’t have the luxury of a pause button to analyse what is going to happen.

    Secondly when you watch the Rosberg/Hamilton incident, Rosberg ends up with nearly half his car over the racing line, so either he has either crossed the track so quickly he has lost control of his car momentarily or he knew Hamilton was going past him.

    My opinion, I agree with the stewards, I want to see racing. I have never been a fan of these in race penalties and believe that no one driver is actually aiming to make contact with another car.

  14. Neel Jani (@neelv27) said on 23rd April 2012, 9:21

    Legally Rosberg escaped the penalty, but pure racing terms and regardless of the rules, what he did was ‘wild’. I previously mentioned as well, that I am not against moving across to block but I am against moving across so steeply to block.

    I agree when Alonso tweeted, “I think you are going to have fun in future races! You can defend position as you want and you can overtake outside the track! Enjoy! ;)))”

    • Nick (@nick101) said on 23rd April 2012, 21:11

      If what Rosberg did was wild, then what hamilton did was pure stupidity. After all, Rosberg moved first and Hamilton followed, Hamilton moved further across the track (and off it fully) and at a much greater rate of knots than Rosberg, and kept his foot in it.

      As far as I’m concerned, neither of these guys did anything wreckless or dangerous, just pointing out that if it is considered that Rosberg was wild in this manouver, than Hamilton was downright crazy. Based purley on the previous comments.

      Watch the replay!

  15. Mitori said on 23rd April 2012, 9:37

    So they are actually saying Rosberg moved out of the way to make some room…..

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