Ecclestone raises doubts over New Jersey race

F1 Fanatic round-up

New Jersey F1 2013 street track planIn the round-up: Bernie Ecclestone remains unconvinced about the planned 2013 New Jersey Grand Prix.

Links

Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

European GP qualifying with Bernie Ecclestone (BBC)

Bernie Ecclestone: “I need to go and have another look because what I’ve seen up to now of what’s been going on I’m not quite as sure as they are. If they can get it completed and confirm to us it will be done, for sure it’ll be on the calendar.”

Formula 1 teams are considering a ban on tyre warmers for 2013 (Autosport)

Pirelli motorsport director Paul Hembery: “What we have found in the past, when we have tried to discuss it, is that the drivers have tended to be worried about such a move, as they feel that it can create a safety issue. From our point of view, yes we can do it but we need time to do it – because it changes completely the compounds that you use.”

FIA confirms Glock can start if he?s fit (Adam Cooper)

“Despite not participating in that session he can still start, having been deemed to have met the 107% rule in practice by the stewards. However he has to be passed fit by the FIA?s Dr Gary Hartstein.”

Montezemolo: “Let’s reduce the costs” (La Gazzetta dello Sport)

“We need to get the Formula One back to the costs of the 1990s we cannot ignore what is happening in Europe and the rest of the world.”

Red Bull RB8 – updated rear suspension (F1)

“There are so many updates on Red Bull’s RB8 this weekend that it could almost be classed as a new car, with the first part of the package the rear suspension, introduced in Montreal.”

Button sorry for Valencia comments (Sporting Life)

“We’re in Valencia, and not a lot happens in a race here. It’s going to be difficult. It’s not a place famed for its fantastic overtaking manoeuvres.”

Jenson Button via Twitter

“Hey guys another tough day. Sorry for my negative comments about Valencia. Now I’ve calmed down I think there is still a lot to play for [on] Sunday!”

F1 Fanatic via Twitter

“Button’s comment were hardly controversial. He said not a lot happens in F1 races at Valencia, which happens to be true.”

Vijay Mallya via Twitter

“Formula 1 has become so very competitive, exciting and unpredictable. Not because of the genius engineers in teams but the Pirelli tyres!”

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Comment of the day

Guilherme is hoping Sauber don’t split their strategies in the race :

Dear Sauber,

Please make use of Kobayashi?s starting position and give him a strategy to move up the field, not backwards. I?m a Kamui fan but I?m not blind, I have to admit that Perez is beating him this year by quite a big margin, but sometimes I don?t get why Sauber split their strategies so much and why Kamui gets the short end of the deal.

I really hope Kobayashi has a strong race tomorrow, maybe a fifth or fourth!
Guilherme

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99 comments on Ecclestone raises doubts over New Jersey race

  1. Kanil (@kanil) said on 24th June 2012, 0:26

    I’m so tired of listening to Ecclestone whine about how various races he’s set up won’t actually be going ahead. It’s particularly annoying in this instance, since I’m actually excited about New Jersey.

    I realize he’ll never shut up, but I do wish he would.

    • HoHum (@hohum) said on 24th June 2012, 0:28

      “It’s Deja Vu all over again”.

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 24th June 2012, 0:45

      @kanil – It’s just Bernie’s way of keeping new circuits on their toes. There is talk that the 2013 calendar could have as many as 23 races on it, but the problem is that the current Concorde Agreement only allows for 17 races and 3 extra if the team agree to it. Since the sport is looking at 23 races, the new Concorde Agreement will have to change the maximum number of Grands Prix – but if the teams can’t agree on it, then Bernie will have to cull three races from the 2013 calendar. And since most of the events have a current contract, putting pressure on newer events is the only way forward because if they even look like they might not make it, they’ll be the first under the headsman’s axe if the new Concorde doesn’t go through.

      • Kanil (@kanil) said on 24th June 2012, 0:48

        I’d buy that explanation if he hasn’t been doing it for as long as I’ve been watching. He hasn’t always had more tracks than he can handle.

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 24th June 2012, 1:14

          @kanil – Can you really blame him for having done it in the past, though? Look at South Korea: the race was announced in September 2006, with September 2010 given as the date of the inaugural race. That’s an unprecedented amount of time, given that other circuits – like India and Abu Dhabi and Austin – were all given two years to get the job done. Russia is the only other country that has been given four years to get their race together, and that’s mostly because the Sochi Olympic Precinct needs to be built before the circuit can be.

          So Korea had four years to get the job done, and they came so close to missing their deadline that the oils in the track surface did not have time to leach out properly, so the 2010 race was like racing on an oil slick.

          Likewise, India wasn’t perfect when it joined the calendar. It was functional, and totally capable of hosting a Grand Prix, but there were little thing that needed work – the entire circuit was run on generators, the commentators were given temporary offices, and some of the sewerage outlets weren’t hooked up.

          And that’s without mentioning the troubles Austin have gone through, with contract disputes, stop-work orders, management buy-outs and so on and so forth. It’s only that the race date was revised from July to November very early on that they are able to make it in time.

          So you can’t really blame Bernie for being pessimistic about New Jersey, can you? The last three races he has organised have come dangerously close to falling apart.

          • Kanil (@kanil) said on 24th June 2012, 3:20

            Maybe he should do a better job organizing them, then?

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 24th June 2012, 4:10

            @kanil – Unforseeable consequences are called unforseeable consequences for a reason – you can’t see them coming. When Ecclestone signed up the Circuit of the Americas for the United States Grand Prix, who knew that a dispute between the circuit managers would result in a stop-work order being issued?

    • Funkyf1 (@funkyf1) said on 24th June 2012, 1:23

      Bernie might just be in jail be the time the race is held.

      • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 24th June 2012, 1:35

        He also might die in a tragic bungee jumping incident, marry a lawn ornament shaped like a pink flamingo, or be declared King of Jamaica.

        • Mike (@mike) said on 24th June 2012, 4:14

          None of which are reasonably plausible, unlike jail, which is unlikely, but foreseeable as a possibility given where we are now.

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 24th June 2012, 4:46

            You said it yoursel – “unlikely”.

            funkyf1’s comments imply that if Ecclestone is in prison, the race in New Jersey will go ahead, as if Ecclestone is the only thing preventing the race from taking place. This is not the case, and Bernie rarely expresses doubt over a race taking place without a good reason. For example, he doubted that the Korean Grand Prix would take place in 2010, and the Koreans were still painting the grid positions two days before the teams arrived. That’s how close they came to not being ready in time. So if Bernie has his doubts about New Jersey, then I’d say he has a good reason for doubting it, particularly since this is the second time he’s been concerned about them.

            Or maybe he’s just learned that it’s better to be pessimistic and be proven wrong than it is to be optimistic and be proven wrong.

          • Funkyf1 (@funkyf1) said on 24th June 2012, 9:52

            @prisioner monkeys my comments in no way imply that Bernie Is stopping the race from happening, I’m just throwing up a scenario. As you have stated, there has been other circuits recently constructed under pressure and doubt, but they were ready come FP1. Bernie is just stopping his name being tied to a failure in case.

    • AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 24th June 2012, 2:37

      @kanil I wouldn’t worry about it, it’s just standard Ecclestone. It’s almost endearing!

    • Pelican (@pelican) said on 25th June 2012, 16:21

      I’m a day late to add this, but the complaint is absurd to begin with– New Jersey is a street circuit, all that needs to be done is to throw up a pit building, presumably a simple, 2 story cinderblock structure that can be put up in a week, repave some of the roads, again something that can be done in a week, and put up the temporary stands and fences, which can’t be done till a week before the race. There’s a year and a half to go, they can’t possibly actually be pressed for time. So it has to be something else he’s after.
      It’s his responsibility as the promoter to do due diligence on the races that he OK’s: if they’re solid to begin with, then they will happen as they ought to, if they don’t, it’s on him. CEO’s of major enterprises don’t wash their hands of their own projects. It just looks bad.

      • BasCB (@bascb) said on 25th June 2012, 16:27

        From what I saw in pictures (and that recent Vettel/DC – Infinity promo) they are already well advanced building the pitlane complex, there’s a concrete structure already on 2nd floor level @pelican – for the rest, I agree with you that putting a temporary street track up should not be hard to do in a years time.

  2. Scalextric (@scalextric) said on 24th June 2012, 0:29

    Dear BBC. I would quite happily watch a commercial or 2 to see your interview with Bernie as it apparently references my local GP next year. Yours, british citizen abroad.

    • HoHum (@hohum) said on 24th June 2012, 0:46

      Not available here in OZ either, blame Rupert, he has tentacles in every country.
      PM will no doubt lecture me on who owns ch.10 here but it all starts with Sky/Bbc/F1m.

      • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 24th June 2012, 1:21

        Would you rather have the Sky feed, showing all twenty races live, but with no interview from the BBC on New Jersey … or would you prefer to have ten races live and extended highlights of the other ten, with the interview from the BBC available?

        Whatever you think of the broadcast deal between Sky and the BBC, this one is an absolute no-brainer – it’s sites like F1 Fanatic that give us access to this kind of content, even if we don’t have the BBC feed.

        • HoHum (@hohum) said on 24th June 2012, 3:25

          As an Australian with UK “right of abode” I find it frustrating that I am denied coverage from these countries merely because I am abroad at the time, it defeats the purpose of the WWW.

        • Mike (@mike) said on 24th June 2012, 4:16

          I’d like F1, broadcast live, including qualifying, with delayed covered late at night for people who work late or otherwise can’t watch it live. Without paying a subscription with minimal ads.

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 24th June 2012, 4:52

            *sigh*

            I knew you’d do this.

            You know perfectly well that the point I was trying to make is that Sky and the BBC are not the only sources of information on Formula 1, which means it’s not really worth trading ten live races for the sake of a few extra interviews on the BBC.

            But no, you had to come along and make this about the Sky-BBC deal. And you know what? I’d like to be able to watch every practice session, qualifying session and race live and uninterrupted. I’d love access to Sky’s additional pre- and post-race content. But you know what? I know it’s not possible.

            So please, stop selfishly making this about an issue that is a year old and hasn’t changed since, and actually address my point.

  3. HoHum (@hohum) said on 24th June 2012, 0:37

    Re COTD, must admit I have not been paying much attention to Saubers pit strategy but watching the racing this year I do feel for KK and other entertaining drivers as they cannot use their aggressive attacking mode of driving without extreme tyre deterioration. This is the year of clear air, steady laps , pit strategy and good luck.

    • Kodongo (@kodongo) said on 24th June 2012, 1:06

      Me too. There was a time when you would see Kamui go on a rampage and overtake three or four cars, but nowadays the tyre penalty is greater than the reward for passing so we see “sit tight and save” driving. I miss the era when unadulterated attacking driving was viable.

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 24th June 2012, 1:26

      Everyone criticises Pirelli and the DRS for producing “artificial races”. Whether or not that is the case is open to debate – but if you start tailoring tyres to suit individual drivers, it’s openly manipulating the races.

      • AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 24th June 2012, 3:03

        @prisoner-monkeys Exactly. You can’t please everyone and certainly not every driver. For every driver who scores 25 points as a result of DRS there will be drivers to lament it because it forced them to drop points.

      • HoHum (@hohum) said on 24th June 2012, 3:39

        Once again, I do not crticise Pirelli who have been brilliant in making the type of tyre FOM wanted. However I miss the days when racers could race. If I was enthralled by competitions emphasising strategy and luck I could watch poker or chess.

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 24th June 2012, 4:55

          If I was enthralled by competitions emphasising strategy and luck I could watch poker or chess.

          Yeah, luck has nothing to do with poker or chess. Strategy, yes. But not luck.

          • HoHum (@hohum) said on 24th June 2012, 5:47

            @prisoner-monkeys, I’m sure you could turn a pair of 2s into a winning hand , the rest of us would prefer a pair of aces.

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 24th June 2012, 6:07

            If you’re relying on luck to win at poker, you’re clearly playing it wrong. The skill and strategy in poker rests on your ability to make your opponent believe you have better cards than you actually do – and luck has nothing to do with this.

          • HoHum (@hohum) said on 24th June 2012, 6:42

            Yes @prisoner-monkeys, I know the basics of poker but it can be really hard to convince a player with 4 aces or a royal flush that you have a better hand than he does. Strategy and skill are the main requisites but sometimes Lady Luck will spoil your day.

    • CarsVsChildren (@carsvschildren) said on 24th June 2012, 1:30

      I put it down more to DRS.

      In the past Kamui stood out because he was one of the few that could really make a move stick. That enabled him to get past slower cars, and really make the Sauber shine.

      Whereas now strategy and tyre conservation are more important, because 9 times out of 10 you can press a button and sail past on the straight, if you have looked after your tyres. Why bother yelling “Leeeroy Jenkins” diving into a tight hairpin when you can do that.

      Kamui hasn’t disgraced himself this year, he has qualified well, and done the best with some awful strategy decisions, but in reality F1 2012 is not a sport that plays to his strengths.

      • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 24th June 2012, 1:34

        @carsvschildren

        Whereas now strategy and tyre conservation are more important, because 9 times out of 10 you can press a button and sail past on the straight, if you have looked after your tyres.

        Are you sure?

        Because short while ago, Keith ran an article about how the number of DRS-assisted passes is down this year compared to 2011 – but the number of overall passes has remained largely the same.

        • CarsVsChildren (@carsvschildren) said on 24th June 2012, 1:51

          @prisoner-monkeys

          It might be down, but you tell me that the majority of the passing isn’t done by DRS? In the past most of those cars would have been stuck in a “Trulli Train” type of scenario. Kamui seemed (in my memory at least) to excel at the type of desperate pass needed in pre-DRS days.

          But instead of picking on my rubbish statistics, please tell me how the essence of my argument is wrong…..

        • PeteF12012 said on 24th June 2012, 3:06

          he number of DRS-assisted passes is down this year compared to 2011 – but the number of overall passes has remained largely the same.

          it isn’t just drs assisted-passing, overtaking in general is down on 2011.

          i take & generally agree with CarsVsChildren’s point.
          in the past you had drivers who excelled at overtaking & these were the guys who were really exciting to watch. Guys like hamilton & kobayashi got as popular as they are amongst fans because of the way they drove hard & always found a way to overtake & in many cases pulled off some stunning overtakes which we all remember.

          with drs & also the way the pirelli’s work, these same guys don’t really stand out as much because overtaking is in most cases too easy which is allowing everyone to pull off similar amount of passes & you can’t really drive hard so you dont see them pushing like in the past.

          its part of why im starting to lose intrest in f1 a bit.
          i enjoy watching hard chargers pushing the cars hard like we saw in the past decades & i enjoy watching drivers having to fight hard to pull off really exciting overtakes & since drs/pirelli came in we have largely lost both of these things.

    • Snafu (@snafu) said on 24th June 2012, 9:23

      well I have to disagree with your comment about Pirellis. In Canada Hamliton demonstrated a very controlled aggressive driving style but with a good strategy he won. Sauber is just giving priority to Perez. Kobayashi is being treated like a second driver in Sauber! It’s their fault not Pirellis.

  4. schooner (@schooner) said on 24th June 2012, 0:48

    It always leaves me shaking my head when Ecclestone, very publicly, casts doubts on a new venue being able to get their act together in time to actually put on a race. Especially this one, which he has supported and been so keen on for so long. As a mere fan of the sport, and not its long time commercial rights holder, I suppose I should defer to his judgement. He’s a smart guy, but laying his dark cloud over the chances of a new event happening would seem to be a bit counter productive. Certainly can’t be of much use for drawing fan interest, investors and sponsors. Oh well. I guess Bernie knows best. Or not.

    • Mark Hitchcock (@mark-hitchcock) said on 24th June 2012, 11:16

      Certainly can’t be of much use for drawing fan interest, investors and sponsors.

      That’s the key thing about these stupid public statement Bernie makes. If a powerful figure on the sport casts doubt on an event, what investor in their right mind would throw money at it?

  5. mantresx said on 24th June 2012, 0:51

    If you think about it banning tyre warmers would be a very good way to reduce costs and environmental impact in F1 (they seem to be obsessed with it nowadays), because each team have dozens of tyres and they are plugged in for hours and hours and I assume that to keep them that hot you need several kW of energy for each, if you do the math it is indeed very expensive.

    • Mads (@mads) said on 24th June 2012, 10:41

      @mantresx
      It is probably quite expensive, but without tyre warmers there will be a bigger risk that the drivers might loose control on their out lap. I bet you, just one crash caused by not having tyre warmers will be a lot more expensive then the costs of using tyre warmers for a whole year.

    • BasCB (@bascb) said on 25th June 2012, 15:55

      And it would add another dimension to the racing as drivers have to get temperature into the tyres by driving them carefully.

      If they do, I would certainly hope they have a look at finally going for 18″ wheels as well with the 2014 rule set. Just compare the sleek llook of them on the IndyCars and F1’s bulbs for tyres.

  6. Irejag (@irejag) said on 24th June 2012, 0:59

    I look forward to this NJ race. It looks like a pretty fast track. Those are the kind of tracks that F1 needs for all races. Tracks like Montreal, Monza, Australia, NJ, San Marino. Fast straights, hairpins, and none of those stupid chicanes to “slow” the cars down for “safety”. with the size of those stupid run off sections, there is no way they even need chicanes.

  7. F1_Americana (@f1americana) said on 24th June 2012, 1:05

    …and people wonder why a Formula One doesn’t have a large U.S. fan base. Many of them just can’t tolerate a man like Ecclestone. “It’s going to be perfect, no problem…” – Bernie Ecclestone, on having 2 Grand Prix in the U.S., 28/10/2011

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 24th June 2012, 1:17

      @f1americana – Those comments were made nearly a year ago. Things have changed since then. Sure, it might make Bernie look a little silly, but he’s not the one responsible for building the circuit and facilities. You can’t exactly hold him responsible if something goes wrong on the other end.

      • Funkyf1 (@funkyf1) said on 24th June 2012, 1:30

        But you can blame for holding a gun to their head. Maybe the circuit builders/owners should include some find print regarding Bernie in their contract. “If the midget opens his mouth in regards to our circuit or facilities not being completed or misleads the press. Race fee is Void”

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 24th June 2012, 1:32

          @funkyf1

          But you can blame for holding a gun to their head.

          Can you? The last three races Bernie has organised – Korea, India and Austin – have all come dangerously close to falling apart.

          • HoHum (@hohum) said on 24th June 2012, 3:45

            “BERNIE has organised” your words PM, my emphasis though.

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 24th June 2012, 5:02

            @hohum – And you know as well as I do that Bernie only organises for the event to fit into the Formula 1 calendar. It’s up to individual event organisers to get the circuit ready in time.

          • Funkyf1 (@funkyf1) said on 24th June 2012, 7:47

            “Bernie only organises for the event to fit into the Formula 1 calendar” and he gets paid a lot of money to do so, if that’s his “only” job.
            Maybe if he aided the development of these circuits and facilities by making there targets more realistic, there might not be so much negativity.

      • F1_Americana (@f1americana) said on 24th June 2012, 2:02

        I know when Bernie said it — I sorta supplied the the quote w/ date. Backing GP’s and then casting doubts over them is a habitual thing for this man, and that’s what I’m getting at. It’s his attitude, and it sucks. No, I don’t blame him for any problems at the track site. I’m simply trying to say that his personality and general disdain for the fans of the sport I love is palpable, and it’s not the kind of thing that’s well-tolerated in these parts.

        “Austin? I wouldn’t want to put my money down that that will happen.” – Ecclestone, 13 November 2011

        And now they’re building additional grandstands due to overwhelming tickets sales. I’ve made the point I intended.

        • bosyber (@bosyber) said on 24th June 2012, 10:25

          Well said @f1_americana, I’m not from the us, but I also find this stuff by Bernie really annoying. If all tracks need this kind of “encouragement”, maybe you’re doing something wrong in getting them in? Or is it a shakedown scheme to get their money in, and then move to the next victim? Hard to tell the difference.

    • Sammy said on 24th June 2012, 2:52

      I’m American and I can’t stand him, and most here won’t tolerate his attitude either. Very slimy character, a deal with him is never a deal until actual completion of the agreement. Greed rules his every action, just a horrible figurehead for the sport.

  8. beneboy (@beneboy) said on 24th June 2012, 1:12

    So Button’s apologising for telling the truth ?

    A great example of doublethink, F1 style…

  9. Fisha695 (@fisha695) said on 24th June 2012, 1:55

    There are only 3 things to do at New Jersey.
    1. Build the Buildings
    2. Lay down new Asphalt
    3. Put up Temporary Walls/Fences

    #1 is almost complete
    #2 Takes 2 weeks max to resurface the streets, and this shouldn’t be done until next spring to avoid as much damage during the winter as possible
    #3 Gets put up the week or so before the race

    The only other thing I can think of is trimming some trees (ok for the entire course that’ll take maybe a week if the workers work slowly) & possibly relocating some Powerlines/Light Poles (this could take a month or so to get sorted out but there has been nothing reported to indicate anything like that has to be done.)

    I mean it’s a temporary circuit & F1 doesn’t do NASCAR style Tire Testing (though some would say they should start) so it’s not like it’s really that much work to do at all and not really any rush to do it (they got about 11 months, not 11 weeks til the race).

    • bosyber (@bosyber) said on 24th June 2012, 10:27

      Probably most of the tough work will be ensuring all the licenses and permissions are in so no nimby protest can derail it. And this sort of comments by Bernie don’t help against that at all.

    • BasCB (@bascb) said on 25th June 2012, 15:59

      I guess the only thing really worrying Bernie, and reason for his public warning, is that he would have been requesting for them to have payed the money until the end of this month and the organizers are holding out and trying to get a bit less one sided conditions @fisha695!

  10. For those outside the UK who want to experience the magic and wonder of Bernie’s comments:

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100659

    A few choice highlights:

    When asked by the BBC if the race would happen in 2013, Ecclestone replied: “No. Definitely, no.”

    . . . “We’ll have to see, I need to go and have another look,” added Ecclestone.

    “. . . If they can get it completed, and confirm to us it will be done, for sure they’ll be on the calendar.”

    And there you have it! Any questions?

  11. Mallesh Magdum (@malleshmagdum) said on 24th June 2012, 2:51

    This has become a habit for Bernie. Past few years, apart from the Indian GP, he has passed such comments about every new race

  12. Chris T. said on 24th June 2012, 3:01

    Seems to me that a tire warmer ban is penny wise and pound foolish since every team already has them and freight weight expense is insignificant in a team budget. I fully agree with the safety concern aspect. To me it’d make more sense to ban KERS if you want to save serious money.

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 24th June 2012, 3:11

      I don’t agree on the safety point. They don’t have them in IndyCar and it’s not a safety concern there, they can get rid of them from F1. It’s not as if F1 runs on ovals.

      It would require changes to the tyres to allow for faster warm-up, but Pirelli seem happy to do that.

      And it would make life more difficult for the drivers and put more of an onus on their tyre warm-up skills. Which is obviously a good thing.

      So let’s get it done. It was a shame they missed the last opportunity to do it when they switched back to slick tyres.

      • Coanda (@ming-mong) said on 24th June 2012, 3:28

        + 1

      • HoHum (@hohum) said on 24th June 2012, 3:55

        So another great way to put the drivers off their game and shuffle the pack one more time. No problem.

      • Fisha695 (@fisha695) said on 24th June 2012, 4:01

        I can’t think of one Professional car based series of any form in the USA where Tire Warmers are allowed and it’s never been an issue you just make sure you warm your tires up good on the pace laps/out laps.

        Other then the occasional incident from a driver who temporarily misplaces their talent there haven’t been many issues because of it either. In fact it actually adds a bit more strategy as you know it’s gonna take a lap or so to the tires get up to optimal temps.

        • HoHum (@hohum) said on 24th June 2012, 5:55

          @fisha695, and it sure makes for good crashes when the safety car leaves the track.

          • anonymouscoward (@anonymouscoward) said on 24th June 2012, 7:15

            can you elaborate this point, not sure I understand it

          • HoHum (@hohum) said on 24th June 2012, 7:53

            @anonymouscoward, in American oval racing safety cars are so prevalent that teams wait for a safety car period to pit, the safety car bunches all the cars up, at the re-start a tightly bunched pack of cars with cold tyres scramble for position with predictable results, multi-car pile-ups are part of the show .

          • Fisha695 (@fisha695) said on 24th June 2012, 9:36

            @hohum Most of the wrecks on restarts caused by tires are actually caused by those who had stayed out and thus are on warm older tires instead of the cold (relatively) new tires. Under caution the warm tires pick up more of the rubber marbles then the cold tires so then on the restart if you don’t have your tires cleaned off properly you’re more likely to spin the tires.

            Does anybody happen to know the optimal operating temp for the Pirelli tires this year?

            I know when I did tires on a Tour-Type Asphalt Modified the other year we were only looking at tire temps of 150-190f on the rights & 100-125f on the lefts if the car was working right (0.25mi oval with approx 14deg of banking running mid 9second lap times). That’s really not that hot when ya think about it, I mean on a Sunny Summer Day if we would set the tires (mounted ready to go) on-top of the trailer & let them bake in the sun they’d be close to optimal temp (if not over it, ya had to be careful) by themselves l0l.

        • DVC (@dvc) said on 24th June 2012, 9:07

          The difference is that in the US they race on tires, but in F1 we use tyres. Completely different.

          • BasCB (@bascb) said on 25th June 2012, 16:02

            :-) And those tires in IndyCar are on beautifully sleek 18″ wheels, unlike the bulbous tyres on 13″ rims we have in F1

    • mantresx said on 24th June 2012, 3:56

      Haha, is not that tyre warmers are expensive to move around or manufacture, is the energy needed to make them work, read my previous post.

  13. GT_Racer said on 24th June 2012, 3:15

    Banning tyre warmers is something that’s been talked about for years & been honest i’ve never understood the ‘Safety Concern’ aspect of it.

    Indycar, Champcar etc… never ran tyre warners & it never caused additional safety problems which is why they never introduced them.
    Champcar had close to 1000bhp about 10yrs back & a lot less overall downforce than an F1 car & there was no problems caused by not having tyre warmers.

    • Fisha695 (@fisha695) said on 24th June 2012, 10:13

      Was a great day for the Road Course Ringers overall.
      1st — Piquet Jr
      2nd — McDowell (Formula Renault, Star Mazda, ChampCar then Sports/Touring cars before NASCAR)
      3rd — Ron Fellows
      4th — Max Papis
      6th — Jacques Villeneuve
      16th — Kenny Habul (Formula Ford Australia, Au F3 with Piccola Scuderia Corse)
      17th — Victor Gonzalez Jr (Barber Pro Series, CART Toyota Atlantic, Various GT Racing)
      29th — Miguel Paludo (Porsche GT Cup Brasil 2-time Champ)
      34th — Matt Bell (Grand-Am)

  14. Dev (@dev) said on 24th June 2012, 4:58

    i think it’s slightly unfair to blame tires for the unpredictable nature of this season, they are providing the same tires to everybody. But what has happened is that all teams are so close to each other in terms of performance that subtle changes in track conditions & temperature is making those small differences. Had the temperatures being lower we would have seen Rosberg on Pole…

    • HoHum (@hohum) said on 24th June 2012, 6:01

      @dev, it’s unfair to blame the tyres for the unpredictable…….but if the temperature had been lower Rosberg would have pole….
      So it’s actually the weather that’s to blame/credit?

      • Dev (@dev) said on 24th June 2012, 7:44

        i think it’s the teams who need to figure what changes they need in the car so it suits in any kind of weather conditions, for example merc needs to figure how to get it right in hot conditions & they can revert back to what they have if they are racing in cooler conditions.

        nobody is to be blamed or credited it’s just that all teams are so close in terms of performance that small upgrades, different track layout, weather conditions etc etc are making those few tenth of a difference which is playing out as unpredictability.

        • HoHum (@hohum) said on 24th June 2012, 8:03

          @dev, I do agree the teams are very close in performance which is why I am so against these tyres. With the teams so equal the tyres are detracting from close racing and passing because they degrade so quickly when used aggressively , had they been used last year they may have provided added interest by handicapping RBRs car advantage but I doubt it.

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