Button hoping for “emotional” Silverstone win

F1 Fanatic round-up

Jenson Button, McLaren, Goodwood, 2012In the round-up: Jenson Button says winning at Silverstone – where he is yet to finish on the podium – would “mean so much more”.

Links

Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Silverstone win would be emotional, says McLaren’s Jenson Button (The Guardian)

“If I win at Silverstone, I will get really emotional. I’m not sure I will be blubbing like a girl but I will be emotional. It will mean so much more. That was what it felt like after winning the world championship [in 2009] after so many years trying to get the right car and the right team. It meant so much.”

Vodafone reviews McLaren F1 sponsorship (FT, registration required)

“One person familiar with the process said that Vodafone?s sponsorship cost ‘tens of millions of pounds’ every year, and that such high costs needed to be evaluated in the more difficult financial climate that has hit mobile phone businesses in many markets in Europe.”

Vettel happy if Webber stays at RBR (Autosport)

“I can understand why people are thinking that there is a problem between Mark and myself. Yes, we might not be best friends, but I have no problem with him and he has no problem with me.”

Hamilton back on track and on the attack (The Telegraph)

Lewis Hamilton: “It’s the best trophy I have ever seen. But Ron [Dennis] keeps every trophy, which isn’t good and definitely won’t be happening in the future.”

The Peaks and Troughs of the British Grand Prix (The Austin Grand Prix)

“Bernie [Ecclestone] now seems to have ceased his ‘hate’ campaign against the famous venue. The many improvements that have been introduced, to turn it into an even more suitable and professional racing circuit, may have made it colder and, in some ways, less welcoming than in years gone by but it remains the ‘Home of British Motorsport’ and that can only be good.”

Comment of the day

GeeMac hails the Jordan 191:

Everything about the Jordan 191 just looks right. The drooping nose, the swooping front wing, the beautifully sculpted airbox that almost comes to a point, the triple element rear wing, the impossibly low and slender sidepods, it is just a gorgeous gorgeous thing that looks right from every angle. The fantastic green and blue livery just makes the car come alive.

Over the years I have come to love this car, it really is my all time favourite. If I?m asked what an F1 car should look like, I?ll always respond by pointing to a picture of the Jordan 191. It really is a piece of art.
GeeMac

From the forum

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On this day in F1

A pivotal moment in the life of Helmut Marko, Red Bull’s adviser and key figure in the career of Sebastian Vettel, occured 40 years ago today.

Racing for BRM in the 1972 French Grand Prix at Clermont-Ferrand, Marko was struck by a stone on lap nine, which cost him the sight in one eye, and ended his career as a racing driver.

Jackie Stewart won the race by 27 seconds from Emerson Fittipaldi and the Matra of Chris Amon. The latter had led the first half of the race before suffering a puncture.

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103 comments on Button hoping for “emotional” Silverstone win

  1. Calum (@calum) said on 2nd July 2012, 0:15

    Mclaren’s ‘Vodadone’ title sponsorship deal runs out in 2013 (at the end of year 7), they are getting paid more than £20m per year so they will be hoping to extend the deal – will a driver’s title be enough to make Vodafone to pay up for a multi million pound sponsorship extension!? If so, then Mclaren better start nailing every pitstop starting from next Sunday!

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 2nd July 2012, 0:35

      What’s Vodafone’s coverage in Europe like?

      They’re notoriously-bad down here – they’re one of the most complained-about companies in the country, which recently inspired them to withdraw their funding for Triple Eight Race Engineering in the V8 Supercars (and the cricket). They’re instead investing that money in improving their coverage.

      So I can’t help but wonder what they’re like elsewhere in the world, and if this might be a factor in any decision they make.

    • Elliot said on 2nd July 2012, 0:49

      if not they still have lucozade?
      Lucozade McLaren Mercedes?

      • Julian (@julian) said on 2nd July 2012, 1:07

        Well the vodaphone network here in Australia is next to useless. People were getting no reception in buildings in the CBD and successfully had their contract rescinded. They have been fixing it but I would rather see some of that 20 million go to us to improve it more! (even though I’m not with vodaphone)

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 2nd July 2012, 1:23

          @julian – If Vodafone were to terminate their sponsorship with McLaren, the money would not be used to improve the Australian network because the money is not coming from Australia. Vodafone is not an Australian company; they have an Australian subsidiary, but the money spent on sponsorship comes from the parent company, and that money would have to be spread around the entire company. In fact, I doubt Austraila would see a penny of it, because Vodafone Australia terminated their V8 Supercar and cricket sponsorships, with that money specifically earmarked for a network upgrade. Vodafone’s board of directors will likely see that move by Vodafone Australia and decide that Australia has all the money they need, so there is no need to send them anything more.

          • Julian (@julian) said on 2nd July 2012, 9:47

            I know, it’s just me putting a personal touch on the “they could probably put that money to a better use” opinion.
            Emphasis on the probably because sponsorship does have its obvious benefits.

        • xeroxpt (@) said on 2nd July 2012, 3:50

          Vodafone is the largest wireless company in the world.

          • JCost (@jcost) said on 2nd July 2012, 7:15

            Its businesses are going well in some geographies but their European markets are far from healthy and as per @julian comment they’re not alright in Australia either. Bear in mind Toyota was world’s largest car manufacturer when they quit F1.

      • damonsmedley (@damonsmedley) said on 2nd July 2012, 3:15

        Oh please don’t let Lucozade become their title sponsor… That is the ugliest logo I’ve ever seen on an F1 car. I wish it would go away as it completely ruins the look of the McLaren.

      • davidnotcoulthard said on 2nd July 2012, 5:25

        If Mercedes quits it’ll be Lucozade McLaren Cosworth (Renault is close) to RBR, Ferrari is…)

      • nemo87 (@nemo87) said on 2nd July 2012, 8:37

        I’d love to see Relentless come into sponsoring the sport! I think they logo would look awesome on a car!

        Relentless Mclaren Mercedes ;)

      • Lothario said on 2nd July 2012, 10:26

        That actually sounds quite catchy! Lucozade McLaren Mercedes.

    • Kimi4WDC said on 2nd July 2012, 4:20

      I don’t think they have much choice, and considering that they will spend this money anyway, why not spend it in F1, TV exposure and all that comes with it – 20m (it’s much more than that) is cheap price to pay.

    • Kimi4WDC said on 2nd July 2012, 4:24

      What I’m more interested in, is how much and under what expense account Marlboro and JPS paying to Ferrari and Lotus to have their cars resemble those brands.

      Lets face it, if Ferrari’s current Scuderia logo is not associated with Marlboro, there plenty of more elegant ways to present it. (This is Ferrari after all)

      • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 2nd July 2012, 8:22

        JPS is not paying Lotus anything.

        Lotus Cars sponsors the team from Enstone. Their sponsorship extends to naming rights, so rather than being called “Lotus Enstone” (like “Vodafone McLaren”), they are simply knows as “Lotus” (which would be the same if McLaren was simply known as “Vodafone”).

        When Lotus Cars started sponsoring the team last year, they picked black and gold as their colours because they felt that black and gold were the colours that best-represented the Lotus name, since that was the livery the original Lotus team made famous.

        John Player and Sons – which is now a part of the Imperial Tobacco Group – do not endorse the livery (they haven’t criticised it, either; in fact, they haven’t said anything). There is no contract between Lotus F1 and Imperial Tobacco. No money is exchanged between them.

        In fact, the connection between Lotus and JPS has eroded considerably. Unlike Malboro under Phillip Morris, JPS has very little presence in any of the major markets that Formula 1 is broadcast to. Starting in the early 1990s, the company was considerably downsized, and now they are mostly sold in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Malaysia.

        In short, there is no connection between Lotus F1 and John Player Special because JPS do not have a patent on the black and gold colour scheme.

        • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 2nd July 2012, 9:32

          @prisoner-monkeys Not forgetting that Group Lotus themselves are not sponsoring Lotus (‘team Enstone’, or whatever identity they’re going to come up with tomorrow) any more:

          Lotus to keep name until 2017 despite losing title sponsorship

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 2nd July 2012, 9:50

            @keithcollantine – Right, there’s that, too. This whole Lotus saga is like the final season of “Lost”. Sure, it kept our interest for a while, but once it got to the end, it was impossible to keep track of everything.

        • BasCB (@bascb) said on 2nd July 2012, 9:39

          A lot of that is incorrect though @prisoner-monkeys

          First of all, Lotus does not sponsor the Entstone team, that contract was ended late last year, which was confirmed sometime in March. But the team and Lotus agreed on a licencing deal for the LOTUS chassis name and some other areas (not disclosed what exactly)

          As for stating that JPS/Imperial Tobacco does not pay anything. It really is hard to tell if they are or aren’t. Its sure that hey do not make any direct payments, but there’s a lot of ways around a direct connection (which would be illegal in most countries by now).

          And its simply not true, that JPS is not present in any major markets. When the deal was started last year, it actually emerged, that JPS does even put quite a lot of effort in increasing their market in several countries, including Germany and Austria, and with success. They even rode on the wave of attention by having a “motorsport” themed campaign at the time.

          • HoHum (@hohum) said on 3rd July 2012, 6:22

            Are not “Group Lotus” Malaysian owned and is there not a GP in Malaysia, despite @prisoner-monkeys assertion that JPS market in Malaysia but not anywhere associated with group Lotus or F1.

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 3rd July 2012, 6:34

            @hohum

            Are not “Group Lotus” Malaysian owned and is there not a GP in Malaysia, despite [your] assertion that JPS market in Malaysia but not anywhere associated with group Lotus or F1.

            Did I say this?

            No, I did not say that.

            This is what I said:

            Unlike Malboro under Phillip Morris, JPS has very little presence in any of the major markets that Formula 1 is broadcast to.

            And last time I checked, Malaysia was not considered one of the major markets that Formula 1 is broadcast into.

    • JP (@jp1987) said on 2nd July 2012, 9:46

      Can you guys name another telecom with hands full of cash sponsoring an up-and-coming F1 driver. Hint: It’s from Mexico :D

      I know it sounds crazy, but how would you feel about Telmex McLaren Mercedes with Hamilton and Perez?

      • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 2nd July 2012, 9:56

        @jp1987 – I can see Button and Perez. Button is currently under contract with McLaren all the way through 2014. Hamilton’s deal with the team expires at the end of this year. Button and Perez is therefore far more likely than Hamilton and Perez, though I think McLaren keeping Button and Hamilton is the most likely outcome. Lewis Hamilton has suggested that he will leave his contract until the end of the year; he’s in no rush to sign anything. Ferrari, on the other hand, will have a choice to make soon. Popular consensus is that Felipe Massa will lose his seat, and despite Luca di Montezemolo’s comments about him not being experienced enough, Perez is widely believed to be Massa’s successor at the team. It’s entirely possible that Ferrari will take him on before McLaren have sorted out the Hamilton situation.

        And, of course, even if McLaren wanted Perez, they’d have to work really hard to get him out of his Ferrari development contract.

        • JCost (@jcost) said on 2nd July 2012, 16:01

          Or

          PDVSA McLaren Mercedes

          … Hamilton-Maldonado or Button-Maldonado or even crazier

          PDVSA Telmex McLaren Mercedes

          with Perez-Maldonado, test drivers Button and Hamilton :)

          • joac21 (@joac21) said on 2nd July 2012, 18:23

            I think Slim wants Ferrari or any other “Big” team to take perez but without the sponsorship.. Telmex then would stay with sauber and the driver would be Esteban Gutierrez…

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 3rd July 2012, 6:37

            @joac21 – Then he’s kind of crazy. Why wouldn’t Slim want him company’s name on the side of a front-running car.

            He’s got enough brands under his company that he could afford to sponsor two teams – perhaps we could see Claro McLaren Mercedes and Telmex Sauber F1 in the future. It wouldn’t be that difficult, given that Gutierrez officially receives his backing from Telcel, while Claro is Perez’s biggest sponsor.

          • joac21 (@joac21) said on 3rd July 2012, 18:08

            @prisoner-monkeys I hope youre right but i dont think so. i ve seen interviews with him and the way he thinks and im guessing he would be more satisfied by seeing a big team taking perez on pure merit without sponsorship so he can give the backing to the next guy and so on….
            The Mexican Nascar champion (3 time champion) was sponsored by him as well, and the guy couldnt make it to the next step in the States because Telmex/Telcel said to him that there is no budget for more sponsorships because F1 is costing a lot..

            i veen paying my home phone and mobile phone billls long to this guy long enough to assure you he is a Bernie kind of negotiator… hes not going to throw money in every direction just because he wants his logos on a mclaren…

            UNLESS he is planning to take Telcel to Italy or Britain!

    • TommyB (@tommyb89) said on 2nd July 2012, 12:21

      Vodafone sponsor McLaren? You’d barely even notice.

  2. Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 2nd July 2012, 2:06

    I hope the new V6 turbos improve the sound a bit, because I really miss the V10s. The V8s have not had the same tune… specially after they limited them to just 18,000 rpm.

    • SatchelCharge (@satchelcharge) said on 2nd July 2012, 4:55

      I think chances of this are pretty slim, unless the turbos end up sounding like rally cars :P because revs will be limited even more, at 15000…

      • raymondu999 (@raymondu999) said on 2nd July 2012, 6:09

        @satchelcharge but crucially, all 6 horses will be going out of the same exhaust piping as people will want to use all 6 cylinders to drive the turbo.

        However, @fer-no65 we have to remember that it is in the nature of turbo cars to be quieter as the sheer energy of the exhaust gases are used up in rotating the turbo.

        • Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 2nd July 2012, 13:34

          @raymondu999 I don’t mind if they are quieter. I want a better sound. The V8s doesn’t sound particularly good IMO.

          • HoHum (@hohum) said on 3rd July 2012, 6:37

            You are a hard man to please @fer-no65 and I suspect you will be disappointed, you can calculate the frequency of the exhaust note ; (RPM over 2)x number of cylinders then divide by 60. Obviously the variable is rpm x cylinders, more of either will give a higher frequency and the V10’s had more of both, the V6 turbos are going to have less of both, but then again the sound of a 6 cylinder E type between 3-6thou. rpm is glorious to hear as well.

          • Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 3rd July 2012, 11:44

            @hohum Am I?

            Okay…

  3. Mallesh Magdum (@malleshmagdum) said on 2nd July 2012, 3:21

    In India, Vodafone has gained very good publicity thanks to it’s marketing campaigns. The F1 deal has paid off in India, but in the ultra-competitive network in India(with tariffs among the lowest in the world), I wonder if it has made them money

  4. F1Yankee (@f1yankee) said on 2nd July 2012, 3:40

    hold on, dennis keeps the drivers’ trophies? haha what an !@#$%^

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 2nd July 2012, 5:37

      Pretty much every team does this – the team holds onto the drivers’ trophies, and they commission a replica for the driver. Some will swap them back when the driver decides to retire (Mika Hakkinen lost all of his trophies in a house fire a few years ago when faulty wiring in his new trophy cabinet started a blaze), though.

      • Santiago Ontanon (@santiontanon) said on 2nd July 2012, 21:55

        I don’t think every team does this. A couple of days ago Alonso was asked in an interview about his trophies, and he said that they he had them stored properly, waiting for the “Fernando Alonso” museum in Spain to open, to transfer them there. So, it seems that Ferrari lets its drivers keep the trophies…

    • GeeMac (@geemac) said on 2nd July 2012, 6:17

      Yup, he’s got every single one, except the one that Prost won at Monza in 1989, Prost threw it into the crowd (possibly in a gesture to won over the tifosi as he was joining the Scuderia the following year). Dennis was apparently so livid Prost had an exact replica made and gave it to him a few days later!

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 2nd July 2012, 8:15

      @f1yankee It’s not as if he’s keeping them in his cellar. McLaren have rows and rows of cabinets displaying hundreds of trophies which line the corridors in the MTC – the employees walk past them every day on the way to the canteen (or ‘body fuel sustenance disbursement repository’). It’s a way of reminding everyone who works at McLaren of the teams’ success and heritage and inspiring them.

      Though I don’t think it would hurt them to let drivers keep some of the originals and use replicas for the cabinet – particularly for the drivers’ finest wins, of which Hamilton’s at Silverstone four years ago is surely one.

    • Girts (@girts) said on 2nd July 2012, 8:48

      Ron Dennis even refused to give David Coulthard the trophy he had won right after surviving the plane crash.

      I have never been a fan of this practice because it puts the team above the driver. While this might increase the value of the organisation by constantly reminding the stakeholders of its great history, I believe this is a false perception.

      I have been working for my current employer for 8 years and so much has changed during this time – the employees have come and gone, the strategy and priorities change every year, the values and traditions have changed as well. Even the ownership has partly changed.

      What I want to say is that the McLaren of today has little to do with the team that Bruce McLaren founded 50 years ago. Whitmarsh & his subordinates have no reason to be proud of Emerson Fittipaldi’s championship title just like the ones who’ll work for McLaren in 40 years from now (assuming F1 and the team still exist) will have done nothing to help Button and Hamilton achieve their successes.

      • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 2nd July 2012, 8:59

        @girts

        Whitmarsh & his subordinates have no reason to be proud of Emerson Fittipaldi’s championship title just like the ones who’ll work for McLaren in 40 years from now (assuming F1 and the team still exist) will have done nothing to help Button and Hamilton achieve their successes.

        That’s not the case – I’ve been there and met employees who’ve been with the team for four decades or more and were very much part of their pre-1981 successes.

        • Girts (@girts) said on 2nd July 2012, 9:13

          @keithcollantine OK, sorry for the inaccuracy. Of course, there are still some people who have been with the team for 40 or even more years but I don’t think it’s the core and they’re going to retire soon anyway. But I guess it’s a matter of philosophy so there’ll always be different opinions.

          • Robbie (@robbie) said on 3rd July 2012, 14:41

            @girts…I definitely have a different philosophy to yours…I think that the history of a team, or a company is inevitable, and the previous years are what sets the stepping stones for the current status and the future. eg. most seem to be of the opinion that all F1 drivers would like to drive for Ferrari at some point in their career. The only reason for that can be it’s rich history in F1, it’s iconic status, the iconic drivers that have raced for them throughout the years in the iconic races and seasons. If nobody cared about the past then nobody would look at Ferrari as anything special in the years that see them not winning the WCC or WDC, yet most always think of Ferrari as special no matter what. If their history is rife with success, then even in a down year one can’t help feeling the potential for improvement and success is always there. I think that simply by still going after 40 or 50 years is an honourable accomplishment in itself. I doesn’t take for some employees to still be there after 40 years to say they can therefore take pride in a past person’s success on the team. I think that even when much changes in a company or on a team throughout the years there should be enough of the common final goal intact that the basic philosophy on the team or in a company endures over the years.

            I guess if the majority shared your sentiment, there wouldn’t be a Goodwood.

    • AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 2nd July 2012, 13:57

      @f1yankee It’s a strange thing to do, but understandable I guess! I wonder what Hamilton meant when he said Ron won’t be keeping anymore, will he be putting his foot down?

      Hope so, that would be funny.

  5. Kimi4WDC said on 2nd July 2012, 4:17

    Is it just me or when ever McLaren “people” talk and mention sponsors, it’s just awkward…I’m sure they were asked to mention it, but can’t they use it more in context. Vodafone McLaren Mer…..Santander British…..

    For me personally, it creates some kind of fakish aura over whole McLaren team.

    Hamilton needs a change of surroundings, there is so much more in him. He needs to get out of high-school and start living on his own, he got enough experience by now.

    • raymondu999 (@raymondu999) said on 2nd July 2012, 6:12

      yes they seem to have this “blatant sponsorship name-dropping” thing going on.

      “We at Vodafone McLaren Mercedes,” “by using the oil provided to us by Mobil1,” etc etc.

      • Julian (@julian) said on 2nd July 2012, 6:36

        Eh it pays their bills so I don’t blame them.
        I’d do the same if it meant I could use someone elses money to pay mine.

      • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 2nd July 2012, 6:52

        @raymondu999

        yes they seem to have this “blatant sponsorship name-dropping” thing going on

        Every team with a title sponsor does it. McLaren and Mercedes happen to be the only teams that do so right now. But look back to when Williams was sponsored by AT&T, or when Ferrari were sponsored by Malboro or when Renault was sponsored by ING. Having their name dropped at every oppotunity is precisely why sponsors engage in title sponsorship deals.

      • GeeMac (@geemac) said on 2nd July 2012, 7:37

        They’d probably say “blatant PARTNER name dropping”! ;)

      • Journeyer (@journeyer) said on 2nd July 2012, 9:08

        Yes, there is some name-dropping, but this isn’t even close to what happens in NASCAR.

        Drivers there would say, “I think our TITLE SPONSOR racing team did well today. We nailed our stops and managed to make our FUEL SUPPLIER fuel last until the end of the race. We won this race because of how we managed our TYRE SUPPLIER tyres – they produce some fantastic tyres and it contributed a lot to today’s win.” After which he’ll take another swig from his ENERGY DRINK SPONSOR bottle.

        • BasCB (@bascb) said on 2nd July 2012, 9:24

          Don’t forget to have him mention the sunglasses supplier and to comment on the team winning the PITSTOP COMPETITION SPONSOR fastest pitstop challenge and had a good time passing cars in the CORNER SPONSOR corner @Yourneyer :-) As you write, it can get a lot worse than F1!

          • F1Yankee (@f1yankee) said on 2nd July 2012, 21:28

            @bascb you nailed it. and now, a brief word from our sponsors, brought to you by BEER SPONSOR, TOURISM SPONSOR, AUTO SPONSOR, ERECTION MEDICATION SPONSOR and MILITARY RECRUITMENT SPONSOR.

        • Girts (@girts) said on 2nd July 2012, 9:43

          It’s just inevitable and it’s fair, too. As long as the promoting is open (I’m strictly against any kind of hidden advertising), I’m fine with drivers, teams or journalists advertising specific companies.

      • HoHum (@hohum) said on 3rd July 2012, 6:47

        Makes you wonder how they ever managed to run a team in the 50’s and 60’s when advertising on the cars was banned, doesn’t it ?

        • David (@nvherman) said on 3rd July 2012, 10:24

          Didn’t think it was banned, it’s just until Colin Chapman painted his cars in the Gold Leaf livery, the colour schemes of the cars had not been determined by the sponsorship, usually came down to national racing colours (British Racing Green, Blue for France, Silver for Germany, Orange for The Netherlands etc.).

          He was just trend-setting…

  6. Paul Metcalfe said on 2nd July 2012, 8:27

    “After so many years trying to get the right car and the right team. It meant so much.”

    and then he left.

    • Todfod (@todfod) said on 2nd July 2012, 9:28

      He didn’t leave. The team had better options than Jenson Button.

      • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 2nd July 2012, 10:02

        @todfod – Actually, Button left the team long before they settled on their second driver. And there was talk that he knew he wouldn’t be able to defend his title with them because they spent all their money on developing the BGP-001. The W01 was rushed through development once the team got their championship payment, and it showed in their overall performance.

        • Traverse Mark Senior (@) said on 2nd July 2012, 14:22

          @prisoner-monkeys
          That’s not the manner in which a newly crowned World Champion should behave. Its disrespectful to leave a team that gave you a championship winning car, just because you might not be able to defend your title the following season. Jenson should have shown some loyalty to Brawn, after all Ross didn’t have to buy the team, let alone give Jenson a drive.

          • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 2nd July 2012, 14:47

            @tmcs88 Given that Button had been with the team in one guise or another since 2003, during which time they produced some spectacularly bad cars, I think he’d already showed them loyalty and then some.

          • Traverse Mark Senior (@) said on 2nd July 2012, 15:15

            @keithcollantine
            I take your point however, seeing as Jenson spent so many years with a team that failed to produce a competitive car on a consistent basis, you’d think that after finally producing a race winning car he would stick with them for another season, to see if they could replicate their success. Lets face it, if Brawn didn’t take the HUGE gamble that he did in buying a defunct Honda team, Jenson wouldn’t be a World Champion and certainly wouldn’t be considered one of the best drivers on the grid, along side drivers like Alonso and Vettel.

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 3rd July 2012, 0:16

            @tmcs88 – Button (like any other driver) has the right to join whichever team he feels will give him the most-competitive car. If he felt that Brawn/Mercedes couldn’t do that, why should stay with them?

          • HoHum (@hohum) said on 3rd July 2012, 6:55

            @tmcs88 I think you have it wrong, Brawn was negotiating the sale of the team at the same time as Jenson was trying to negotiate staying on at a WDC salary, having taken a pay-cut to stay with Brawn. Jensons reputation probably owes more to his 1st. 2 years with McL. than it does to his WDC.

          • Traverse Mark Senior (@) said on 3rd July 2012, 12:22

            @prisoner-monkeys and @hohum
            If Jenson had elected to stay at Brawn/Mercedes, (as the newly crowned WDC) he would’ve had the perfect opportunity to build a team and car that catered to his driving style. He wouldn’t have had to put up with the constant comparison with Hamilton and the pressures that come with that. With Nico as his team mate, Jenson would have been considered the No.1 driver and thus would’ve had an advantage over Nico. Instead he chose to follow the money and join team Hamilton, where he’s the clear No.2/support driver who subsequently, has no advantage over his team mate when it comes to the teams development and thus ( as long as Hamilton is at McLaren) won’t win another WDC.

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 3rd July 2012, 12:27

            @tmcs88

            If Jenson had elected to stay at Brawn/Mercedes, (as the newly crowned WDC) he would’ve had the perfect opportunity to build a team and car that catered to his driving style.

            And he would have been unable to defend his title.

            where he’s the clear No.2/support driver who subsequently, has no advantage over his team mate when it comes to the teams development

            You were watching last year, right? Button was easily the team leader, and if it weren’t for his tyre troubles, he’d probably be as competitive as Hamilton.

          • Traverse Mark Senior (@) said on 3rd July 2012, 13:24

            @prisoner-monkeys

            And he would have been unable to defend his title.

            Fact is he didn’t defend his title anyway, despite having a competitive car.

            You were watching last year, right? Button was easily the team leader

            Yes I did watch the 2011 season in its entirety, and what I witnessed was possibly Hamilton’s worst ever season in his motorsport career and conversely, arguably Jenson’s best. Even so, Lewis still managed to win the same amount of races as Jenson (3) and out qualify him 12 to 7. I wouldn’t describe someone who is routinely out qualified by his team mate and has the same amount of race wins as “easily the team leader”.

            and if it weren’t for his tyre troubles, he’d probably be as competitive as Hamilton.

            I was under the impression that Jenson was some kind of Yoda/Jedi when it comes to tire management, and that his big strength over Hamilton was his ability to make the right decisions at the right time. I don’t know about you, but I think people may have over exaggerated Buttons skills set….just a little. :-)

          • Robbie (@robbie) said on 3rd July 2012, 15:18

            @tmcs88…I think you are using the luxury of hindsight in your comments about what JB coulda, woulda, shoulda done. You say JB should have shown some loyalty to Brawn after his WDC. Do you even know whether or not Brawn wanted to retain JB? It’s rarely just up to the driver as to what they want to, or are going to do from one contract to the next. Perhaps JB felt the big reason for his success was the controversial double diffuser that they were lucky was deemed legal and that the other teams had caught up to by halfway through the season, at which point JB scored the minority of his points, the majority being when the had a temporary ace up their sleeves. And if he didn’t see a dublication of that strength seperating them from the rest, and if several of hundreds of potential ingredients weren’t in place for him to do this that or the other by continuing with Brawn, then sometimes things just don’t seem to fit so well anymore. It’s hard to argue with a move to such an established team as McLaren if/when the opportunity arises, and I applaud JB for having that kind of bravery going to a team that many think is LH’s but where he proved that doesn’t necessarily matter.

          • Nick (@nick101) said on 3rd July 2012, 22:31

            @tmcs88

            Jenson should have shown some loyalty to Brawn, after all Ross didn’t have to buy the team, let alone give Jenson a drive

            Oh, boo hoo.

            Are you kidding me? Brawn ‘bought’ the team from Honda for 1 british pound. Then Honda covered the wages and running costs of the team for the year and then Brawn pocketed £100M when he sold to Mercedes.

            My heart bleeds for him after this terrible behaviour from Button!

          • Traverse Mark Senior (@) said on 3rd July 2012, 23:23

            @nick101
            Whether Brawn bought Honda for £1 or 1 trillion is irrelevant. My point is if Brawn hadn’t bought Honda, Jenson wouldn’t have participated in the 2009 season, wouldn’t have won the WDC, and certainly wouldn’t be mentioned in the same breath as Vettel, Alonso etc when it comes to driving ability.

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 4th July 2012, 0:24

            Fact is he didn’t defend his title anyway, despite having a competitive car.

            Whether or not he successfully defended his title is beside the point. What matter is that, at the start of the season, he felt he had a better chance defending it with McLaren than he did with Mercedes.

            I wouldn’t describe someone who is routinely out qualified by his team mate and has the same amount of race wins as “easily the team leader”.

            I wouldn’t describe qualify results as mattering that much at all these days. For one, points aren’t awarded for qualifying, and secondly, we’ve seen plenty of drivers this year come from well down on the grid to finish well.

            I don’t know about you, but I think people may have over exaggerated Buttons skills set

            You clearly haven’t been following Formula 1 for very long then.

            It is pretty obvious that something changed when McLaren introduced the upraised nose on the MP4-27. It has fundamentally altered the way the car is set up, and that has not worked out well for Button.

        • Traverse Mark Senior (@) said on 4th July 2012, 16:25

          You clearly haven’t been following Formula 1 for very long then.

          I’ve watched motorsports in general since I was a child (mainly WRC) but started following Formula 1 specifically as a fan in 2007 (mainly because Schumacher’s dominance had officially come to an end). The fact that I haven’t followed F1 for decades doesn’t mean that I lack the ability to make basic observations about the sport or Button. Clearly Button’s skills behind the wheel have been exaggerated; his so called superior ability to conserve and manage his tires has seemingly vanished over night, and people like you always seem to have some kind of excuse for him. One minute it’s the tires, the next minute it’s the setup of the car and now it’s the flipping raised nose. Lewis (and indeed all the other WDC) can take these issues in their stride, but Jenson on the other hand needs everything to be perfect, but you know what, we shouldn’t criticise him because unlike Hamilton and Vettel, he’s a ‘Nice Guy’.

          • Traverse Mark Senior (@) said on 4th July 2012, 18:45

            @prisoner-monkeys
            Even a Jenson fanboy like you, has to accept that he is clearly the weakest of the WDC currently racing in F1.

          • BasCB (@bascb) said on 5th July 2012, 7:12

            @tmcs88 funny to see you call @prisoner-monkeys a “Jenson fanboy”, from previous comment strings, I seriously doubt that he is a big fan.

            PMs comments here are more aimed at explaining how no driver has an obligation to stay with a team if they are out of contract and can go to better teams.
            My guess is, that Button first of all did know that the team was not yet good enough to defend that world title, and after having spent years with that team. Why not believe him that after the climax of winning the WDC he was in for a new challenge, which he found at “hamilton’s team”

          • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 5th July 2012, 9:03

            @bascb – Actually, I am a big Button fan. He was the first driver I really started following. But I try not to let my support of him colour my judgement when discussing things.

          • BasCB (@bascb) said on 5th July 2012, 9:16

            Well, I guess you did a good job of not letting it show through too much then @prisoner-monkeys!

  7. Red Andy (@red-andy) said on 2nd July 2012, 8:32

    Perhaps the fact that Bernie’s “hate campaign” against Silverstone has ended demonstrates that it was never a “hate campaign” after all. It was an effort to get Silverstone’s facilities brought up to the standard of other F1 venues around the globe.

  8. Neel Jani (@neelv27) said on 2nd July 2012, 10:10

    Somehow Jenson has never found the form on his home turf even when he has had a car capable of fighting for the top 3 just like Mark.

    Regarding the trophies, it’s strange that the driver gets the replica while the team keeps the original. On special wins like Fuji 2007 or Silverstone 2008 where the driver deserves more credit than the team, it’s frustrating for a driver not to get his hands on the original trophies.

    • Girts (@girts) said on 2nd July 2012, 10:18

      @neelv27 I think that McLaren themselves have demonstrated umpteen times what a difference a driver can make. The most recent example is the Canadian Grand Prix where Hamilton delivered a beautiful win, more than a lap ahead of Button, who finished 16th.

      • Dan Brown (@danbrown180) said on 2nd July 2012, 10:42

        Or indeed the Canadian Grand Prix the year before, which was probably the best performance by a driver I can really remember.

      • bag0 (@bag0) said on 2nd July 2012, 12:49

        @neelv27
        When a driver wins it is not only his reward. There is a huge amount of people working on those cars, then another group of people that work with that car in the race, the driver is crucial point, but not the only one who made the win possible, so the team should keep the trophies.
        Does it really matter, if the driver gets a replica, or the original? The fact that he won that race is the reward, not the trophy, the fact goes into history books, not the trophy.

        @grits
        By that race you could say, what a difference a good setup, or running in free practices makes, comparing drivers is not that easy in F1, the most obvious is the constant difference between PDR and KAR, ALO and MAS.

        • Neel Jani (@neelv27) said on 2nd July 2012, 19:41

          Sure. As I mentioned, only a few wins which are special. I am not saying that team has no contribution. It’s a team work after all but the example I gave of Silverstone 2008. No doubt the team called some good strategies but it had a more to do with the driver’s ability to not only win but win by over a minute while the other driver in the same team spun and finished 5th (?). It was the driver’s sheer capability to keep the car on track facing the right direction and deliver a thumping win.

          Replicas don’t have the same attachment as the original. Drivers who are more emotional would always love having the originals. As I mentioned, only for those ‘special’ victories.

  9. Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 2nd July 2012, 10:57

    …and more than likely won’t get it. I doubt Mclaren in general will get it; perhaps Hamilton since he has been consistently quick but I believe that Red Bull & Vettel have rediscovered some 2011 form: he was by far the quickest driver at Valencia.

  10. sonia luff (@sonia54) said on 2nd July 2012, 18:26

    Mclaren do indead have loads of cabinets full of trophies as I was lucky enough to visit the MTC on Friday. My husband and myself had many an interesting conversation with members of the Mclaren workforce and added to that Jenson made an appearance before going off to do PR at Goodwood

  11. Traverse Mark Senior (@) said on 2nd July 2012, 22:23

    If it’s standard procedure for the team to keep the trophies, what happens when a team is defunct? For example when Honda left the sport, did they give Jenson the real trophy from his win at the Hungary GP in 2006?
    Ps. Defunct is my new favourite word because it sounds rude………I’m so childish :-P

    • Robbie (@robbie) said on 3rd July 2012, 17:39

      Lol…just because Honda’s most recent effort in F1 is ‘defunct’ doesn’t mean they have erased their rich history of racing in F1, not to mention their amazing racing history in other disciplines for decades now, from their memory banks. I’m sure they have a trophy ‘room’ or hall of fame, or building, or museum that they take great pride and inspiration in. I think whether or not Honda gave JB the Hungary 06 trophy is neither here nor there. If he wanted it bad enough and Honda insisted on keeping it, I’m sure JB can afford to make a duplicate if he absolutely must have it for his trophy room. Otherwise if Honda has it in their hall of fame then JB can hold his head high with huge pride at what incredible company his trophy sits amongst. Same for LH. If he needs trophies in his house so bad he can make duplicates, but otherwise his trophies are among some huge icon’s trophies throughout the years and his accomplishments are more noteworthy at MTC among the rest of the rich history at Mac than sitting in his den. But then methinks LH might be being a little tongue in cheek anyway.

      • Traverse Mark Senior (@) said on 3rd July 2012, 18:17

        I was under the impression that when a team wins a race, both the driver and the team principle each receive a trophy, and that they have the right to do as they please with their respective silverware.

  12. rantingmrp (@rantingmrp) said on 3rd July 2012, 16:04

    Jenson is doing a lot of hoping these days. McLaren seem to be too inept to figure out a car setup that works for him.

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