Who will win the 2012 championships?
Debates and polls
F1 is set for a frenetic end to the season with nine races crammed into 13 weekends.
These races will decide the outcome of the world championships, currently led by Fernando Alonso and Red Bull.
Both have some rapid rivals behind them who are getting within striking range. Can they hold on to claim the titles – or will there be more changes at the top before the year is out?
Drivers’ championship
After 11 races last year Sebastian Vettel held an 85-point lead in the drivers’ championship over Mark Webber.
Alonso’s advantage is less than half that at the same stage this year. He has a 40-point margin over second place which once again is occupied by Webber. There is a maximum of 225 points available over the remaining races.
This chart shows drivers’ scores throughout the season. Use the controls below to show/hide different drivers:
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | |
| Fernando Alonso | 10 | 35 | 37 | 43 | 61 | 76 | 86 | 111 | 129 | 154 | 164 | |||||||||
| Mark Webber | 12 | 24 | 36 | 48 | 48 | 73 | 79 | 91 | 116 | 120 | 124 | |||||||||
| Sebastian Vettel | 18 | 18 | 28 | 53 | 61 | 73 | 85 | 85 | 100 | 110 | 122 | |||||||||
| Lewis Hamilton | 15 | 30 | 45 | 49 | 53 | 63 | 88 | 88 | 92 | 92 | 117 | |||||||||
| Kimi Raikkonen | 6 | 16 | 16 | 34 | 49 | 51 | 55 | 73 | 83 | 98 | 116 | |||||||||
| Nico Rosberg | 0 | 0 | 25 | 35 | 41 | 59 | 67 | 75 | 75 | 76 | 77 | |||||||||
| Jenson Button | 25 | 25 | 43 | 43 | 45 | 45 | 45 | 49 | 50 | 68 | 76 | |||||||||
| Romain Grosjean | 0 | 0 | 8 | 23 | 35 | 35 | 53 | 53 | 61 | 61 | 76 | |||||||||
| Sergio Perez | 4 | 22 | 22 | 22 | 22 | 22 | 37 | 39 | 39 | 47 | 47 | |||||||||
| Kamui Kobayashi | 8 | 8 | 9 | 9 | 19 | 19 | 21 | 21 | 21 | 33 | 33 | |||||||||
| Pastor Maldonado | 0 | 0 | 4 | 4 | 29 | 29 | 29 | 29 | 29 | 29 | 29 | |||||||||
| Michael Schumacher | 0 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 17 | 23 | 29 | 29 | |||||||||
| Paul di Resta | 1 | 7 | 7 | 15 | 15 | 21 | 21 | 27 | 27 | 27 | 27 | |||||||||
| Felipe Massa | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 10 | 11 | 11 | 23 | 23 | 25 | |||||||||
| Bruno Senna | 0 | 8 | 14 | 14 | 14 | 15 | 15 | 16 | 18 | 18 | 24 | |||||||||
| Nico Hulkenberg | 0 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 7 | 7 | 17 | 17 | 19 | 19 | |||||||||
| Jean-Eric Vergne | 0 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | |||||||||
| Daniel Ricciardo | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | |||||||||
| Heikki Kovalainen | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |||||||||
| Vitaly Petrov | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |||||||||
| Timo Glock | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |||||||||
| Charles Pic | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |||||||||
| Narain Karthikeyan | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |||||||||
| Pedro de la Rosa | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Fernando Alonso
164 points
Alonso has rarely failed to get the most out of the Ferrari. Since the beginning of the European season the F2012 is much-improved and, though still not the fastest car, is a strong all-rounder. The well-drilled Ferrari team have turned out some excellent pit stops.
But if one of his better-equipped rivals emerges from the pack as a consistent challenger, he may yet be kept from a third world championship.
Mark Webber
124 points (-40)
When the season began, just 11% of readers tipped Webber to out-score Vettel. He has done so far but in recent races the momentum has been with his team mate.
Sebastian Vettel
122 points (-42)
Unlucky not to win in Valencia and doubly so that Alonso picked up the victory. But his car remains more than a match for the Ferrari on pure pace and gives him the chance to grind down Alonso’s lead in the coming races.
Lewis Hamilton
117 points (-47)
Winning in Hungary was a vital boost to his championship credentials. Like Vettel, he will need to score consistently better than Alonso in the coming races to get back in the hunt, but that’s not always been a feature of his title campaigns.
Kimi Raikkonen
116 points (-48)
The 2007 champion is a fascinating dark horse in the title race. There is much expectation that Lotus, armed with their new double DRS, will finally come good this weekend and deliver their overdue first win of 2012. That and the E20′s kindness to its tyres could prove significant weapons in Raikkonen’s arsenal.
Who will win the 2012 F1 drivers’ title?
Who will win the 2012 F1 drivers' title?
- Fernando Alonso (49%)
- Mark Webber (7%)
- Sebastian Vettel (9%)
- Lewis Hamilton (21%)
- Kimi Raikkonen (15%)
- Someone else (0%)
Total Voters: 379
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Constructors’ championship
Red Bull hold a 53-point lead in the teams’ title race with 387 still to be won.
This chart shows teams’ scores throughout the season. Use the controls below to show/hide different teams.
Teams chart
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | |
| Red Bull | 30 | 42 | 64 | 101 | 109 | 146 | 164 | 176 | 216 | 230 | 246 | |||||||||
| McLaren | 40 | 55 | 88 | 92 | 98 | 108 | 133 | 137 | 142 | 160 | 193 | |||||||||
| Lotus | 6 | 16 | 24 | 57 | 84 | 86 | 108 | 126 | 144 | 159 | 192 | |||||||||
| Ferrari | 10 | 35 | 37 | 45 | 63 | 86 | 97 | 122 | 152 | 177 | 189 | |||||||||
| Mercedes | 0 | 1 | 26 | 37 | 43 | 61 | 69 | 92 | 98 | 105 | 106 | |||||||||
| Sauber | 12 | 30 | 31 | 31 | 41 | 41 | 58 | 60 | 60 | 80 | 80 | |||||||||
| Williams | 0 | 8 | 18 | 18 | 43 | 44 | 44 | 45 | 47 | 47 | 53 | |||||||||
| Force India | 1 | 9 | 9 | 17 | 18 | 28 | 28 | 44 | 44 | 46 | 46 | |||||||||
| Toro Rosso | 2 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | |||||||||
| Caterham | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |||||||||
| Marussia | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |||||||||
| HRT | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Red Bull
246 points
Red Bull’s situation in the constructors’ championship is akin to Alonso’s in the drivers’ title race. They have a healthy lead but not enough to relax and they could do with their closest rivals takings points off each other in the coming races.
Their key strength is that both drivers have been consistently scoring decent points, with just three no-scores between them.
McLaren
193 points (-53)
It’s 14 years since McLaren last won the constructors’ championship and you sense they are aching to end that streak. Especially as they’ve been second on seven occasions in that time (and not forgetting 2007 as well).
Going into the summer break McLaren had sorted out their pit stop problems and made a major performance gain with their last upgrade. If they return to action as competitive as they were at the end of July, with Jenson Button seemingly recovered from his early-season slump, they should be Red Bull’s closest challengers.
Lotus
192 points (-54)
Lotus have done everything but win a race so far this year – they’ve even had both drivers on the podium on two separate occasions. Third place is already in excess of their pre-season aims, but that’s not going to stop them aiming even higher.
Ferrari
189 points (-57)
Ferrari are fourth in the constructors’ championship while Alonso leads the drivers’ title. That is a credit to Alonso’s driving and a damning indictment of Felipe Massa’s.
If Massa can increase his contribution to their points tally (currently just 13%) they should make progress. It may even save his place at the team for next year, though it’s hard to believe it isn’t already too late for that.
Who will win the 2012 F1 constructors’ title?
Who will win the 2012 F1 constructors' title?
- Red Bull (73%)
- McLaren (15%)
- Lotus (10%)
- Ferrari (2%)
- Someone else (0%)
Total Voters: 324
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Debates and polls
- Vote for your 2013 Spanish GP driver of the weekend
- Rate the race: 2013 Spanish Grand Prix
- DRS and tyres: Has F1 got the balance right?
- Vote for your 2013 Bahrain GP driver of the weekend
- Rate the race: 2013 Bahrain Grand Prix
Images © Ferrari spa/Ercole Colombo, Red Bull/Getty images, McLaren/Hoch Zwei
Thomas (@infi24r) said on 27th August 2012, 12:24
I think realistically its between Alonso and Hamilton and im just not sure which one to tip. Hamilton will be faster but Alonsos got a pretty decent points advantage. My gut tells me Hamilton will take it.
While Kimi, Vettel and Webber will be there or there abouts, I just don’t think any are as talented as the main two.
Jeanrien (@jeanrien) said on 27th August 2012, 12:55
Will depend on other drivers, if Lotus and RBR stays competitive (which we can expect) we could have huge point swing in few races, lots of guys fighting for top spot means you quickly go from 1st to 8th (Assuming Massa join the party or any outsider) and that’s quite a lot of points
Thomas (@infi24r) said on 27th August 2012, 13:33
I agree 100% with this. This is why I see Alonso’s point lead reducing quick. When you are coming 5th or 6th you are losing alot of points per weekend. 40-50 point lead reduces pretty quickly in that type of situation.
Also 1 DNF for Alonso and he really is back in the pack.
coefficient (@coefficient) said on 28th August 2012, 13:23
Huge points swings are indeed possible. On a day where everything falls into place for Red Bull, Mclaren and Lotus the very best Ferrari can hope for is 7th and 8th as their car is not a match for those of their closest rivals. If this sort of result happens 2 or 3 times Alonso could tumble down the order pretty suddenly.
Roger Camp (@rogercamp) said on 27th August 2012, 14:06
I totally disagree with the comment about talent. Sure Hamilton is fast, but a real talented driver manages everything, he needs to be very, very intelligent, and let’s face it, Hamilton lacks that side. He made so many stupid mistakes that I can’t see him as a world champion ever again unless he has a fantastic car and takes pole position in a regular basis and lead from there. In my opinion he is the 5th best F1 driver today.
Thomas (@infi24r) said on 27th August 2012, 15:14
What you mean like Vettel every single race he wins?
What mistakes has Hamilton made this year? Hamilton has been flawless. McLaren have made mistakes.
Xysion said on 27th August 2012, 18:36
Hamilton has not been flawless. The only driver close to being “flawless” is Alonso.
Hamilton lost out to Button in Australia from the clean side and then never made an impression on him throughout the race. Alonso has not had one poor start where he lost a place.
In Malaysia and Bahrain Hamilton made no impression on Alonso when he was behind Alonso even though Alonso had a vastly inferior car.
In Monaco, Hamilton got nailed by both Alonso and Vettel in pit stop phases. In Alonso’s case, Alonso had dropped back from Hamilton to conserve his tyres for the end of the stint.
Thomas (@infi24r) said on 28th August 2012, 3:00
You assume the Ferrari is inferior in the wet. I don’t think you can say that with certainty.
And at Monaco Hamilton’s team never told him what was going on.
Sabrina (@sabrina) said on 28th August 2012, 10:52
At Australia McLaren changed Lewis clutch settings at the start, despite he was happy with the ones he has, therfore he had a bad start. If you watched the season, you might have seen whoever leads the race has a huge advantage with the tyres. One thing is to come close to the leader, the other is to overtake him. The following driver uses up his tyres driving in dirty air very fast.
What about Alonso at Canada? Lewis drove much more intelligent than him there , if you want to argue like that.
At Hungary Lewis drove very, very intelligent to keep the much faster Lotus behind. He let Kimi come close, us him up all his KERS, let him drive in dirty air, and then drove away from him to get out of DRS, and this all with saving his older tyres
Xysion said on 1st September 2012, 0:17
@Thomas
No, I do assume the Ferrari is inferior in the wet. The last stint of the Malaysian Grand Prix for Alonso and Hamilton was done on medium tyres. They both pitted a lap apart. Hamilton had qualified on pole over a second quicker the Alonso. Hamilton closed in on Alonso by four seconds over 15 lap stint which is way lower then what it should be considering as mentioned Hamilton qualified more then a second quicker then Alonso.
@Sabrina
Hamilton had poor getaways in Monaco and Germany. Alonso’s clutch overheated at Hungary yet even with poor getaway he was still able to retain position on long straight to the first corner and pass Raikkonen further along.
In Canada, the Ferrari team made the wrong call on strategy not Alonso.
In Hungary Hamilton drove very well but Alonso did better in a similar scenario in Germany where he first fended off Vettel then Button for the entire race.
The point of the discussion was to show Hamilton had not driven flawlessly because quite clearly he has not. Alonso has driven better then him proven by the Driver’s Championship and on the half way stage driver rankings on this site.
Guccio (@concalvez00) said on 27th August 2012, 19:01
@Roger Camp ”He made so many stupid mistakes that I can’t see him as a world champion ever again” – Witch year are you referring to ?, this year Hamilton has made NO mistake and last year ?, and so what about last year, don’t tell me you are another ANTI Hamilton guy
Roger Camp (@rogercamp) said on 27th August 2012, 20:46
Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX3qTV3Ss5k, one of many videos that we can see (again) his mistakes last year alone. So far this year it’s ok. I hope he keeps this way. No I’m not anti Hamilton, I just don’t support him as much as other drivers.
bosyber (@bosyber) said on 28th August 2012, 8:24
But @rogercamp, last year Alonso was also far from flawless, think, for example of his 2011 Spa race. It’s this year he’s been doing great. And Hamilton also did well, but without the nearly flawless teamwork Ferrari have been able to give Alonso (and I do agree that is something Alonso might have helped cement) it certainly added up to less results.
Roger Camp (@rogercamp) said on 27th August 2012, 21:51
Just for laughs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYsn1ds63N8&feature=related
JimmyTheIllustratedBlindSolidSilverBeachStackapopolis III said on 27th August 2012, 15:18
webber for champion if 7/9 of the races are dry which with spa japan korea and brazil still to come is sadly unlikely lol.
AloFan said on 29th August 2012, 20:45
I think it will be between alonso two redbulls and Hamilton though alonso is the only one to have finished 3 times first and in the points every single ace so far.. But with nine races to go anything is possible! I hope alonso wins this year
Thomas (@infi24r) said on 27th August 2012, 12:27
and Red Bull are no brainers for the constructors. They have two even, high performing drivers. Both Ferrari and McLaren lack a credible #2 driver and they will suffer for it.
BasCB (@bascb) said on 27th August 2012, 12:38
I think McLaren have a set of drivers who are both good enough, just they are not really able to get the highest level of performance out of both cars on any give weekend!
Younger Hamii (@younger-hamii) said on 27th August 2012, 12:48
I reckon track position is equally an issue rather than just pure performance, particularly in qualifying & the start. They need Australia-esque weekends If they’re going to take the fight to Red Bull.
Drivers will be extremely close but Red Bull for me is likely to take the Constructors – by a considerable amount.
vinicius.jlantunes (@vinicius-jlantunes) said on 27th August 2012, 14:13
+1
Bleeps_and_Tweaks (@bleeps_and_tweaks) said on 27th August 2012, 14:15
I think saying that Button is not a “credible number 2″ is a little OTT. He has struggled this year with the tyres, and in general I think Hamilton has reasserted his control over the team. If Mclaren are quick at a track my money will always be on Hamilton, but that’s no to say that Button will not pop up with results when given the opportunity. The problem is, as many commentators have said in the past, he needs everything to be perfect set up wise to be fast enough to challenge for the win.
coefficient (@coefficient) said on 28th August 2012, 15:08
Yes, funny how last year tyre issues were a perfectly acceptable excuse for Lewis’s supporters to cite as he had a poor season but its a different story if Jenson has similar issues. Button gets a bum rap off people just because he goes about his job differently to Lewis. Ok Lewis is usually tremendously exciting to watch has he wrings the neck of his car, who could fail to enjoy that. However, I also liked watching Jenson last season calmly racing around after qualifying a few tenths back and more often than not finding himself on the podium and and taking a healthy clutch of wins to boot. We are witnessing a great British pairing at an iconic British team, enjoy it whilst it lasts!!
Nickpkr234 said on 27th August 2012, 14:52
actually lotus-renault is scoring more points than anyone in the last half of the year so redbull is not that far apart if ferrari or maclaren are faster but slower than lotus …..
bosyber (@bosyber) said on 28th August 2012, 8:27
I too think that Lotus might have a good change of the WCC, especially if Button doesn’t pick up well enough, or if the July pace of McLaren proves a fluke. Red Bull is still a contender too, but they haven’t really shone for me over the last few races and I rather hope they won’t have found great pace over the summer stop.
Jayfreese (@) said on 27th August 2012, 19:09
Looking to the poll, people doesnt tend to see any of the Red Bulls driver winning the Drivers’ but almost everybody sees the Red Bull crew winning the Construcstors’
suka (@suka) said on 28th August 2012, 6:17
That’s what struck me too???!!!To make it even worse, neither of the RBR drivers are not even past 10%.
I’d rather give best chance to Vettel for winning it. He’s got the equipment and he’s got speed.
HoHum (@hohum) said on 27th August 2012, 23:23
Thomas, I agree about Red Bull and Ferarri, but to dismiss a world champion of JBs quality as not a credible 2nd. driver is pure hyperbole, especially when you consider that he is a race winner this year. McLarens problem this year is down to the tyres being so critical and their drivers styles being so different, what works for Lewis leaves Jenson on cold tyres and what works for Jenson leaves Lewis on destroyed tyres. What normally would be a team strength is, this year, a liability due to the tyres unpredictability and critical temperature range.
Nick.UK (@nick-uk) said on 27th August 2012, 12:36
With Alonso’s current form it’s tough to see him coming 2nd or worse by the end of the year. If he has a retirement at a race that Lewis goes on to win then it will really shake things up! Lewis will need to pull out all the stops, keep out of trouble and pray that there are no more team mistakes. It’s more than possible, but it’ll be very hard!
PJ (@pjtierney) said on 27th August 2012, 12:36
I get the feeling that Webber and Vettel will keep chipping points away from each other, which if Fernando keeps up his form, will allow him to break free and win the title. However, with 2 consistent points finishers, Red Bull will run away with the constructors.
Younger Hamii (@younger-hamii) said on 27th August 2012, 12:41
To note: Interestingly, Lewis has scored less points at this stage of the championship than he did at this stage last season, which we know was his worst, although I’d put that down to the field being closer & the unpredictability of this season. For him, he needs to maintain his elusive approach in striving for consistency, by that he needs to consistent be up there & McLaren to get their race strategies right, which I have a gutsy feeling will be vital in the 2nd half of this championship, he’d be hoping Jenson will be right there in the mix taking points off his other rivals (and him as well, JB is not giving up that’s unquestionable). For me it’s the best four (Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Raikkonen) that will end the season, a particular order I won’t say.
Something tells me that in Spa an underdog will rise from the shadows & the much expected won’t happen however something else tells me Lotus will have a considerable advantage enough with their passive F-duct for Kimi to get the win.
BasCB (@bascb) said on 27th August 2012, 12:52
Bring it on! I pretty much agree with you on that @younger-hamii, the only chance for anyone else than Alonso to take the title is being consistently close to the podium while it would also need Alonso to have a bit of a dip in consistency.
But the differences are not big enough that its a foregone conclusion, just remember who was in 1st and second in the championship at this point in 2010.
Gwannel Sandiego (@gwan) said on 27th August 2012, 12:49
I picked Alonso to win in 2010 and 2011 (before testing, in case you think I’m an utter moron in the case of last year). I still think he should have won in 2010. Before the start of this season, I decided to go with the flow and back Vettel, so I’m now convinced that Alonso will win, ha ha! I would like Lewis to win, but if not, I’d far prefer Alonso to get his third championship than Vettel.
Nick.UK (@nick-uk) said on 27th August 2012, 19:37
Yeah, now Sebastian has his double, he can wait 6 years for another lol.
Psi (@psi) said on 27th August 2012, 19:48
Are we watching the same season mate?
Cristian (@cristian) said on 27th August 2012, 12:50
I think Vettel will win it. He is the most talented from this year’s contenders, he is an all round driver, a thing that can’t be said about the others ( with the obviuos exception of Alonso) and, in 2010, in a much more difficult moment and with less experience, he pulled himself together and won it.
Alonso has a good chance too, I really think one of the two will win.
Alehud42 (@alehud42) said on 27th August 2012, 13:22
Don’t make me laugh.
dd42 said on 27th August 2012, 14:00
lol. Vettel certainly has the ability that with the best car he can do a few great laps (in comparison to Mark Webber) to get pole, then win from that position.
Vettel is not the best qualifier (Senna) nor racer (Clark) of all time nor of this era and when he’s won it’s been due to an advantage. If he can turn this around by for example joining Mclaren and whipping Hamilton then maybe I’d think differently. Till then well, my opinion of him is low..
Hamilton and Alonso are in another league in comparison to Vettel. Kimi and an, at his best Scumacher are also better than Vettel. I just hope Redbull aren’t going to produce a wonderful car for Vettel to cruise to another championship. I’m supporting Ham and Kimi for the championship, I’d also be happy if Alonso wins it – as it’s thoroughly deserved.
Also if Alonso is ill/retires/dies and Massa get’s preferential treatment by ferrari and overcomes a massive defecit to win the championship then I’d be bouncing about my house!
Underdog supporter!!
dd42 said on 27th August 2012, 14:08
Sorry – underdog supporter doesn’t some me up well – although it’s true, with F1 I really don’t like seeing sided competition – I didn’t want Schumi to win in 03 or 04 and I really hate red bull. I’ve tried it twice, worst energy drink out there. Monster’s much better, it doesn’t taste like wee
aka_robyn (@aka_robyn) said on 27th August 2012, 14:26
I think it’s hilarious that people are still making hyperbolic statements like this after last season. But hey, you go on clinging to that idea as hard as you need to!
Thomas (@infi24r) said on 27th August 2012, 14:32
He won in the best car? Is Nigel Mansel also the greatest driver ever? Even Damon Hill has a better track record than Vettel, he won in a truely midfield car and nearly won in what can be considered a backmarker car.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 27th August 2012, 14:33
@infi24r
Jordan finished two places higher in the 1998 constructors’ championship than Toro Rosso did ten years later.
George (@george) said on 27th August 2012, 14:57
@keithcollantine
I think he was referring to the Arrows.
George (@george) said on 27th August 2012, 15:02
Oh, ignore me, I misread. The fact the lesser Schumacher almost beat him in the same car takes the shine off a bit too. Saying Hill has a better track record than Vettel is rediculous, they’re in different leagues.
Thomas (@infi24r) said on 27th August 2012, 15:16
“Jordan finished two places higher in the 1998 constructors’ championship than Toro Rosso did ten years later.”
@keithcollantine,
That is because Torro Rosso got a good car half way through the season. They ran the STR2B for the first half which was in all honestly, awful and not capable of scoring points.
aka_robyn (@aka_robyn) said on 27th August 2012, 16:16
@infi24r Sorry, how did we go from “in the same league as Hamilton and Alonso” to “greatest driver ever”? Was anyone calling him that? (Answer: no.)
Thomas (@infi24r) said on 27th August 2012, 17:13
@aka_robyn Alonso and Hamilton are top 10 of all time imo. By putting Vettel in their class he is too. Which is absurd. He’s never even raced a world champion in the same car.
aka_robyn (@aka_robyn) said on 27th August 2012, 17:36
@infi24r What I think is absurd, after two championships and a dominating season like 2011, is the way people continue to concoct new and increasingly specific criteria Vettel will need to meet in order for them to not have a “low” opinion of him.
Obviously you should feel free to put anyone you want in your personal top ten drivers of all time, but to declare it “absurd” for anyone to consider Vettel in the same league as Hamilton and Alonso is a bit much.
Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 27th August 2012, 21:01
I love how fair your comparisons are. Vettel is only 25, and you are speaking of him in the company of perhaps two of the all time greatest drivers. I suppose one could say that just proves what a great driver he really is.
I think comparing him to Alonso and Hamilton is absolutely a credible thing to do, as he is comparable to Hamilton in his driving skill (though not quite Alonso just yet). @aka_robyn ‘s point sums it up perfectly: people who hate Vettel will have to get ever more stringent with their criteria, as he’s only going to get better.
Younger Hamii (@younger-hamii) said on 27th August 2012, 21:51
I just honestly don’t like it, as a Hamilton fan, when there’s sudden capabilities of comparing Vettel with Hamilton but not Alonso but also to be open minded about the subject, some have already & I will state that it’s very difficult to make comparisons (contrasts are more easier) with the ‘best three on the grid’.
If there’s anything notable comparisons with Vettel & Hamilton then here’s something interesting (hopefully) that I’ve found: analyse Vettel’s 2009 & 2010 seasons with Hamilton’s 2007 & 2008 seasons, individually they were roughly the same age & had competitive cars under them, other than that let’s just put the subject to bed temporarily by agreeing that Vettel, Alonso & Hamilton are great BUT different drivers in their own right & uniquely gifted, that is probably until years have gone down the line & hopefully more showdowns will give us more of an insight.
Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 28th August 2012, 8:15
@younger-hamii – And they both won one championship, and came runner up in the other. The are comparable.
Brace said on 27th August 2012, 14:18
LOL is that you, Horner?
Eggry (@eggry) said on 27th August 2012, 16:57
or might be Marko?
HoHum (@hohum) said on 27th August 2012, 23:44
@christian, if Vetell is so talented and the only “all round driver” how do you explain his team-mate not only being ahead in points ( they both have “ifs” and “could haves”) but also being genuinely faster quite often this year ?
Seb is obviously very talented but “all round” is yet to be demonstrated.
Cristian (@cristian) said on 28th August 2012, 16:22
I didn’t say “the” only, I said he is “an” all round driver, and I said Alonso is one too. The other 3 are not.
And Mark Webber is a very good driver, I don’t see how the best driver in F1 can’t be behind ( he has almost the same points) a good one.
I agree it wasn’t Vettel’s best season to date, but in spite of this he still has very good title chances. That should say something.
xjr15jaaag (@xjr15jaaag) said on 28th August 2012, 9:47
I agree; I think he is the most talented of this years contenders, particurlarly when based on previous performances (I’m doling so, because you never lose talent; you can only develop it)
In the junior formulae, he won 18/20 races in Formula BMW; an amazing feat.
In F1, he took a Toro Rosso to pole and then the win, and only made one obvious mistake the whole race, which only cost him a second, if that.
On his debut, he scored a point, which was amazing, particurlarly given his age.
At Turkey 2006, he topped a practice session at Turkey.
In 2009, he took several poles and 4 wins, one of them in torrential conditions at China.
In 2010, he was almost endlessly let down by his car, yet battled through and won the title, albeit when ferrari messed up their strategy.
Last year will remain one of the greatest in history, despite the frankly ridiculous and unfounded allegations of cheating, both by the public, and he consistently was 0.5 seconds faster than mark Webber, who is no slouch, let me remind you.
This year, he is looking a bit on the shaky side, but he has driven fairly well, butneeds to up his game to haul in Alonso.
Argue with that!!
Irene (@airinsv) said on 28th August 2012, 16:47
+1
finfun (@tengsja) said on 27th August 2012, 12:50
I think it will be betw Ham and Rai, this not because the Finnish nationality, but Ham will have the best car and Rai the best head together with a good car.
junius paul said on 27th August 2012, 12:55
Alonso already showed how great he is in driving F1 cars…
Starbuck (@starbuck) said on 27th August 2012, 12:55
Alonso will win it though I still hope Webber does. Vettel might have a chance if RB starts supporting him only, Kimi might be the surprise. I don’t see Hamilton in the running this year.
caci99 (@caci99) said on 27th August 2012, 13:13
40 points is not that much in 9 races left. Ferrari needs to update their car, otherwise it would be really difficult for Alonso to win this title. I have the feeling that we are entering a second phase of the championship were the order of the cars is pretty much established. So, there will be no more surprises from which Alonso and Ferrari can gain anything, I think.
Eggry (@eggry) said on 27th August 2012, 16:59
Pat Fry reckoned that recent Ferrari updates(a couple of races) didn’t work as expected but he said the problem has been solved. so there might be bounce back from Ferrari.
caci99 (@caci99) said on 27th August 2012, 18:38
Let’s hope for that, because it would be a real shame to let down such a brilliant performance until now.
Sviatoslav Andrushko (@) said on 28th August 2012, 10:32
And yet, what Fry said doesn’t mean that they won’t face some new problems. I would be comforted if Alonso had 70-80 points ahead of nearest rival.
thedamntyres (@icemangrins) said on 27th August 2012, 13:31
When someone builds a 40 points lead with an slighlty inferior car, you can only wonder if this was “all went to plan” for Ferrari and Alonso that
he managed to get enough buffer between him & his closest rival. Even though I agree with the rest of us about Kimi, Mark and Lewis – Fernando is in a
very different league this year and after a long gap of 6 years, he could sense that WDC is quite within his reach. His driving so far has been
sensational. With no reliability issues; he got into point scoring positions in all the 11 races with Chinese GP being the low key.
JimmyTheIllustratedBlindSolidSilverBeachStackapopolis III said on 27th August 2012, 15:30
“When someone builds a 40 points lead with an slighlty inferior car, you can only wonder if this was “all went to plan” for Ferrari and Alonso”
Absolutely if you are talking about the dream plan all of ferrari went to sleep thinking about on the eve of the first race when their worst fears about their competitiveness were confirmed. Cos there is no way they planned to have such a slow and difficult car to drive but still have 40 points in the bag at christmas time last year.
coefficient (@coefficient) said on 28th August 2012, 15:43
I think its also pretty clear that the Ferrari hasn’t been anywhere near as bad as many have made out. Forget Massa, he’s hopeless. If you had Alo with But, Vet, Ham, Web, Rai they would be leading both championships.
I also think that the Williams is probably as good as the Ferrari and accordingly wish Alonso had been driving it. LOL!
f1tbonesteak said on 27th August 2012, 13:35
It’s between Alonso and Vettel for the world title while the lesser drivers (Webber, Kimi and Lewis) will fall away like they always do. Vettel is the king at this time of year and that’s a FACT!
dd42 said on 27th August 2012, 14:17
Your wrong about Kimi. But I think you’re right that it’s down to Alonso and Vettel – if Newey can ensure he has the best package from now till the end of the year.
Redbull are so close to big points in comparison to Alonso that they can easily cut the deficit. I also feel Newey can and will provide the car Vettel needs for his 3rd consecutive title. But, and it’s a big but…
I really hope when we’re at the American GP there will be 3 contenders – Alonso, Kimi and Hamilton!
dd42 said on 27th August 2012, 14:22
To justify why your wrong about Kimi losing it at the end of the year watch the 2007 season review.
Kimi does have issues in achieving the most out of a car but he is still awesome
Also Ham is not a lesser driver this year, he has had no “brain fades” and if Mclaren provide him with equipment equal to the best HE WILL WIN!!!
George (@george) said on 27th August 2012, 14:56
I agree with tbone and dd42, it all depends on whether Ferrari can deliver the car for Alonso. Vettel hasn’t been as strong this year, but if Red Bull give him the fastest car (and reliability) I think he’ll get his brain in gear and stop making mistakes.
Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 27th August 2012, 15:51
I agree, with Vettel’s previous performances at the newer tracks towards the end of the calendar I think he’ll be a force to be reckoned with. Alonso’s lead will definately pay him dividends however. Come Spa I think it’ll be a lot easier to make this decision…
Cyclops_PL (@cyclops_pl) said on 27th August 2012, 13:39
I think Alonso will take the title home. When the field is so even, the rest of the pack will be mostly taking points from each other rather than effectively chase Alonso.
infy (@infy) said on 27th August 2012, 13:49
I dont think Alonso will have the car to stay ahead. A driver can only do so much.
Nickpkr234 said on 27th August 2012, 14:53
what is wrong with the car ?
Robbie (@robbie) said on 27th August 2012, 16:39
Usually this season the answer to that comes down to how well the tires are working and lasting on a given Sunday based on their setup and the stability of the air and track temps. As with all the drivers and their cars.