2012 Japanese Grand Prix championship points

2012 Japanese Grand Prix

Constructors’ championship

Position Team Points
1 Red Bull 325
2 McLaren 283
3 Ferrari 263
4 Lotus 239
5 Mercedes 136
6 Sauber 115
7 Force India 81
8 Williams 58
9 Toro Rosso 15
10 Marussia 0
11 Caterham 0
12 HRT 0

2012 Japanese Grand Prix

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102 comments on 2012 Japanese Grand Prix championship points

  1. This championship has majorly swung Vettel’s way!

  2. Eggry (@eggry) said on 7th October 2012, 8:41

    Jesus, the championship is almost over…

    • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 7th October 2012, 8:43

      Wow, people like jumping to conclusions very quickly. Isn’t that what we said after the European GP?

      Suzuka is generally a bit of a Vettel/Red Bull track. Wait till Korea.

    • Jesus said on 7th October 2012, 8:58

      @eggry
      Yes, the championship is over.

    • ka (@ka12) said on 7th October 2012, 9:07

      not that bad, he is still leading the driver championship.

    • Vettel does have the upper hand now but nothing is over. Red Bull have the best car for Suzuka. It’s been like this for some years now. And still, regardless of that, look at Massa’s pace. If he managed to easily end up in second here, maybe that car is not that far behind after all. The championship might be over for Hamilton and Raikkonen, by the looks of it, but between Vettel and Alonso there’s all to play for.

      But, yes, by the current looks of it it might appear like Alonso is slowly turning into some kind of less-error-prone / unluckier Will Power of Formula One. Coming close, but not close enough and so on.

    • BasCB (@bascb) said on 7th October 2012, 9:42

      Yes, its 75% of it gone now (15 from 20 races, is it).

    • I am inclined to agree, given the pace that Red Bull (or should I say Vettel) has been gathering, and the seemingly loss of progress being made at Ferrari I hardly think that Alsonso will get in front of Vettel during the races quickly enough to stop him from taking a proper lead in the championship.
      Make a statement like ‘lets not go to quick, he’s still 4 points ahead’ doesn’t change the reality that Ferrari is lagging and probably won’t improve in time. Unfortunatly I must say, because i’d hate to see Vettel win the championship again…2 times in a row is enough. We don’t need another dominant German.

  3. Disapointing…with the pace of the red bull. This championship is most likely over. Hope I’m proven wrong. With the way alonso has driven this year and the exciting start with the first half of the season, we are now heading into a probable anti climax.

    • brny666 said on 7th October 2012, 8:47

      Indeed. I know its not over yet but looking back at the year so far it seems to me that Alonso’s lead in the championship had more to do with Macca and RB failing rather than Ferrari being top dog. I’m not trying to take anything away from him but its true. And this is the 3rd year in a row that Ferrari failed to provide him with a WDC car.

      • Tete said on 7th October 2012, 9:28

        I don’t agree! Almost all of them have the same number of dnf yet alonso is still in front of them. Alonso hasn’t made mistAkes while the others have. And last but not least the ferrari at some race was between the 4-7 fastest car while the mclaren and the redbull have been the fastest and second fastest car in this season. So yes with you comment you are taking away what a driver alonso is, that e doesn’t need the fastest or even second fastest car to win championships and last but not least that he is probably the best driver out there. Alonso was hit from behind in spa and in this race, his team made bad strategic decision in some races and his car seems to be really bad in qualifying. Instead red bull and mclaren are the best.

    • JCost (@jcost) said on 7th October 2012, 8:50

      Red Bull was dominant at Valencia before Vettel’s alternantor failed. It’s an ups and downs season. Ferrari will suit better some circuits than Red Bull and McLaren is still there.

    • With redbulls new ddrs its going to be tough for either ferrari or mc laren to fight for pole I rate. Red bull has also gone very well at korea in the last two year, so it isn’t looking much better. I was very dissapointed that hamilton didn’t have pace to pull of a win either. The way I saw it is that with the present pace of the ferrari, the only way we would have a tight championship battle until the end was if alonso kept his good points lead up until the final 3 races. But its never over until its over..and altough I dislike any championship contender having a dnf, maybe a dnf by vettel would change everything again with alonso and hamilton 1 and 2 with which ever one of them taking the win.

      • peter548 said on 7th October 2012, 9:32

        wow.. the anti-vettel is strong with this one..

        • Not anti for vettel..its just that the bulls have the car. I don’t want to see them win the next 5 races and dominate the last quater of the championship. And in all honesty I don’t want to see him win 3 wdc’s in a row. I supported him for the champ in 09..didn’t mind him winning 2010..got abit over the domination in 2011.

    • geekracer2000 (@geekracer2000) said on 7th October 2012, 9:17

      Wait a minute. That logic doesn’t apply when anyone else but Alonso is leading the championship.
      Suddenly we like when one driver is leading the championship by over 40 points, and wraps it up with 10 races to go?

    • AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 7th October 2012, 18:34

      What’s probable about it? It’s no more probable than Alonso winning it, given that he’s been the most consistent driver out there.

  4. Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 7th October 2012, 8:42

    OK. As an Alonso fan this championship has become very nerve-wracking.

    That being said, I still believe Fernando will win it… hopefully.

    • Eggry (@eggry) said on 7th October 2012, 8:53

      I hope you’re right. Maybe my faith on Alonso is not strong enough.

    • John H (@john-h) said on 7th October 2012, 8:54

      Sadly, I think it’s over for Alonso, what with the dodgy wind tunnel and a very fast red bull. Ok, Suzuka is a ‘red bull’ track, but we saw at Singapore what it can do on the slow speed circuits now.

      • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 7th October 2012, 9:00

        Mclaren and Williams were quickest in Singapore actually. In terms of race pace, even today, Ferrari is just as good as Red Bull. Massa was on average only 3 tenths slower than Vettel, imagine what Alonso could’ve done if it wasn’t for the first lap drama.

        I find your lack of faith in Alonso’s driving ability desturbing. :P

        • Broom (@brum55) said on 7th October 2012, 9:20

          I think its more to do with having no faith in Ferrari against the Red-Bulls. Even McLarens were nowhere and even though Felipe was 2nd, he was 20s of Vettel.

          Of course if Alonso managed to survive the first lap then the gap he may have finished 2nd, the gap would have been 22 points and there would have been some breathing space.

          The only thing we can cling onto is that Ferrari are now using the new windtunnel and with 6 races left, have time to improve. I think in Korea Vettel will be leading the WDC however. It requires more faith than Ferrari have show they are worthy of in the last 3 years against the Adrain Newey Super Team.

        • I have tons of faith in alonso..but just not in ferrari at the moment. With these wind tunnel probs, lack of quali pace and not many developments coming thru or working it looks extremely tuff. Red bull has ddrs and great quali pace along with solid race pace..even if ferrari performs well on race day its asking to much from luck to pull out a win considering alonsos average quali pace is 5th. And we must remember that abu dhabi seems to be a track that ferrari may struggle at, so that’s already 1 out of 5 races down on pace for alonso if the pace of cars stay the way they are. Just hope some miracle is performed by alonso and hamilton to extend the gap for the former and reduce the gap to the bulls for the latter.

        • peter548 said on 7th October 2012, 9:36

          TBH, it was Alonso letting himself down today (can’t blame the team or car).. squeezing Rai like that was exactly the same thing Gro did to Ham few races back..

          • John H (@john-h) said on 7th October 2012, 9:58

            In the Grosjean case, Hamilton was alongside for the whole of the start sequence and he just had total ignorance that another car maybe alongside. We have seen today how reckless is at starts.

            In terms of Alonso, I think it was just unfortunate, nothing more because Kimi was only a fraction overlapping the Ferrari when Alonso moved to the left.

            Actually today I think the stewards got all the decisions correct.

        • John H (@john-h) said on 7th October 2012, 9:54

          I find your lack of faith in Alonso’s driving ability desturbing. :P

          @Kingshark I actually think Alonso is the best driver in F1 at the moment. Is that enough for you, or do you need more?

        • @kingshark

          Massa was on average only 3 tenths slower than Vettel

          True, he was even matching his pace for quite some time in the second stint. But the averages only tell half the story: during the second stint Vettel was conserving his tyres.
          The last stint gives a better indication of the true pace of that Red Bull, and Vettel was far quicker than Massa when he put his foot down.
          Ferrari have good race pace, but relative to Red Bull they are probably half a second behind.

        • raymondu999 (@raymondu999) said on 7th October 2012, 10:56

          @Kingshark Vettel was cruising. Add to that his fastest lap which was something like 7 tenths quicker than his race pace, which he called out on command. That Red Bull today was much more than .3s quicker.

    • Todfod (@todfod) said on 7th October 2012, 9:48

      That being said, I still believe Fernando will win it… hopefully.

      @kingshark . I wish I shared that optimism, but it seems obvious that Ferrari have screwed up their car development at the most crucial time. 4 points against a Red Bull stands for nothing.. only a miracle can win Fernando the WDC now

    • AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 7th October 2012, 18:37

      @kingshark I said that earlier this week…starting to doubt myself now though unfortunately.

  5. DaveW (@dmw) said on 7th October 2012, 8:51

    Looks like mclaren took the wrong sauber driver.

    • Traverse Mark Senior (@) said on 7th October 2012, 9:07

      It’s funny how the driver they’ve signed embarrassingly spins out of the race trying to overtake Hamilton, whilst Kobayashi manages a superb podium.

      • Broom (@brum55) said on 7th October 2012, 9:26

        It was a hilarious move by Perez. I think Lewis might have been having a bit of a chuckle too.

        • Traverse Mark Senior (@) said on 7th October 2012, 9:38

          I think Perez felt invincible after the first move on Hamilton and thought, what the hell let me go for it. Definitely over enthusiastic…and hilarious.

      • John H (@john-h) said on 7th October 2012, 10:03

        We did say yesterday this would be the acid test for Perez, starting on the same compound as the rest of the field for a change. It started well with the move on Hamilton, but if you look at the weekend as a whole he was outqualified and then outraced by a team-mate who may not even have a race seat next year, let alone in a McLaren.

        This is just one race however and I do think McLaren have signed the right driver.

    • peter548 said on 7th October 2012, 9:19

      I always considered Kobayashi to better then Perez.. I’d love to see him in a faster car.. although Sauber are doing very well indeed!

  6. DT (@dt) said on 7th October 2012, 8:52

    Alonso can kiss goobye to the championship win. This is at about Japan but more about Ferrari’s development pace. A fair amount of Alonso’s lead (no disrespect) is due to other’s misfortune. He can’t rely on that anymore and it doesn’t look like Ferrari has an answer to the speed of the redbull and potentially Mclaren.

    This is much for Vettel to lose now, as Hamilton is far off to challenge. Time will tell

    • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 7th October 2012, 9:01

      Did you even notice Massa’s performance and pace? Alonso could’ve challenged Vettel today. As I said before, Red Bull is only quicker than Ferrari in qualifying, not in the race.

      • DT (@dt) said on 7th October 2012, 9:14

        kingshark Massa had pace but no where near the redbull. Get real and look at the stats. The last time Alonso won a race was in Germany and can’t even remember the last time Alonso was on the front row. Those stats tells you where the ferrari is on pace!

      • peter548 said on 7th October 2012, 9:23

        The problem like I’ve mentioned previosly is also that Alonso is not good enough in qualifying (be it driver or car).. which means the risks are higher of him being involved in a midfield squabble on lap one.. this cost him twice this year already..

        • Broom (@brum55) said on 7th October 2012, 9:30

          Not sure how you can come to that conclusion given that he reguarly outqualfies his team-mates by a considerable margin.

          • peter548 said on 7th October 2012, 9:44

            I meant relative to the Mclarens and RBR, to be absolutely risk free of the Kamikaze drivers this season, he’d either have to qualify 1st (webber qualified second this weekend and still got smashed into) or outside the Top 10…

        • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 7th October 2012, 9:31

          Massa had pace but no where near the redbull.

          As a driver, Alonso is quite a bit better/faster than Massa, don’t you think? Massa was, on average, only 3 tenths slower than Vettel.

          The last time Alonso won a race was in Germany and can’t even remember the last time Alonso was on the front row.

          Uh, Alonso started on the front row in Germany, and he was quickest in qualifying but unlucky in Monza.

          The problem like I’ve mentioned previosly is also that Alonso is not good enough in qualifying (be it driver or car)..

          It’s the car IMO. Alonso was great in qualifying back in 2005-06, it’s just a matter of Ferrari not being as quick as Red Bull over a single lap.

          • Pamphlet (@pamphlet) said on 7th October 2012, 10:05

            As a driver, Alonso is quite a bit better/faster than Massa, don’t you think? Massa was, on average, only 3 tenths slower than Vettel.

            Get real. Massa has been the better of the two for the last 3 races.

          • raymondu999 (@raymondu999) said on 7th October 2012, 11:00

            And Massa has been quicker than Alonso all weekend. He was quicker than Alonso by, on average through the weekend, 3 tenths, until he met Mr. Dud Tyres in Q2. The only lap where he has been slower than Alonso the entire weekend.

    • Tete said on 7th October 2012, 9:35

      Yes and you forgot that alonso lead the 40 point he had 2-3 races ago were lost because of misfortunes in which by not fault of his own he was hit from behind by te lotuses drivers!! So even with that luck he still leads the standings by 4 points.

  7. Chris (@tophercheese21) said on 7th October 2012, 9:04

    I think it’s now a two horse race. And my money is on Vettel, simply because RBR have got so many upgrades coming and Ferrari don’t.

  8. tandrews (@tomand95) said on 7th October 2012, 9:10

    Vettel in the box seat from here on in. With the Red Bull having so much speed, I can’t see him not winning 3 titles in a row unless he has multiple retirements. But anything can happen…

  9. Harvs (@harvs) said on 7th October 2012, 9:15

    McLaren: we will do everything we can to give Hamilton the best opportunity for the championship, except the obvious.

  10. xjr15jaaag (@xjr15jaaag) said on 7th October 2012, 9:37

    I think Vettel can win it now; Red Bull had good straight line speed in japan, and in Korea, should they have a similair set up, then I expect him to be equally competitive.

  11. ka (@ka12) said on 7th October 2012, 9:38

    I am in doubt about Mclaren’s support to HAM in next races, after his move to Mercedes next season confirmed.

    • David BR2 said on 8th October 2012, 17:28

      Given Hamilton’s ludicrously stupid actions on twitter, they probably should just let him rot.
      First releasing the telemetry data, annoying the team and Button hugely. Now he complains that Button unfollowed him before realizing he never had followed him!

      Is Hamilton 7 years old? These kind of comments and woeful decisions reflect hugely badly on him, including his capacity to make mature decisions in relation to his career and his racing. Even if Button had unfollowed him leaving aside the silly teenage high school girl aspect of it, shouldn’t Hamilton have recognized by now that he was responsible for the ill-feeling generated in the team by releasing data looking to prove a point against Button?

      If I was Brawn, I’d be very worried. Mercedes’ new driver needs to age 15 years in a few months.

  12. craig-o (@craig-o) said on 7th October 2012, 9:39

    42 points separating the top 4 drivers in 4 different cars with 125 on the table… This is going to be awesome! Lewis and Kimi can still do it!

  13. bosyber (@bosyber) said on 7th October 2012, 9:50

    What I find amazing is that after we thought Ferrari were stuck in 3rd way behind McLaren and Red Bull, the recent DNFs by McLaren and Massa picking up pace and points has brought them within 20 points of the 2nd spot. But at the same time, Red Bull really need to goof to lose it now.

  14. peter548 said on 7th October 2012, 9:56

    Another important question now is Will Webber get over his ego and try and help Vettel win it? He is pretty much out of the race now..

  15. Atticus (@atticus-2) said on 7th October 2012, 10:00

    The thing is that while up to now, Alonso and Vettel was more or less balanced in WDC-terms via Alonso’s healthy points advantage and Vettel’s performance advantage, now the former is gone. It is true that the championship fight became a bit unbalanced in this respect – to favour Vettel.

    Others have already pointed it out above: what Ferrari needs now is either a significant performance update for India – surely they can’t put together a package for Korea – or another huge slice of luck. Preferably the first one.

    Otherwise, this championship is really over, and this is not an overstatement.

    Also, the weak shot of Raikkonen and particularly of Hamilton remained. It will be hard for Raikkonen without race-winning pace, but Hamilton still has it in sight – but only just. He has to be masterful and Vettel has to have bad luck.

    I also agree that this championship is getting very nerve-wracking for us, Alonso fans. Since the summer break, the WDC does not pans out well – lack of working updates, first lap crash out in both Belgium and Japan by the fault of others, mechanical issue takes away 10 points surely in Italy. Only Singapore went ahead perfectly.

    • peter548 said on 7th October 2012, 10:05

      Actually it was Alonsos fault this time.. and not Ferraris (or the other drivers) that his lead has disappeared.. but I agree with your other points. A lot can happen in the next five races though. While RBR have the advantage on paper, we won’t know until the fat lady sings.. ;)

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