Using team orders “wrong” at this stage – Horner

F1 Fanatic round-up

Helmut Marko, Mark Webber, Sebastian Vettel, Christian Horner, Adrian Newey, Korea, 2012In the round-up: Red Bull team principal Christian Horner says Red Bull won’t use team orders while both of their drivers are still in contention for the championship.

Links

Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Webber free to race Vettel (Sky)

Christian Horner: “Sebastian [Vettel] has moved into the lead and Mark [Webber] still has a chance of winning this championship. I think it would be wrong to impose team orders while Mark still mathematically has a chance of winning.”

Motoring company Cosworth puts itself on sale (The Telegraph)

“Cosworth has been put up for sale by its owners Gerry Forsythe and Kevin Kalkhoven, the former IndyCar racing magnates-turned-venture capitalists, who bought the business from Ford eight years ago.”

Government criticised over refusal to back boycott of Bahrain Grand Prix (The Guardian)

“[The Commons Foreign Affairs Committee] said Bahrain should have been included by the Foreign Office on its list of ‘countries of concern’ in the wake of the ‘brutal’ suppression of anti-government protests last year.”

Williams has ‘many’ driver options (ESPN)

Toto Wolff: “[An announcement] is going to be this year, but we don’t know about the timing yet because we want to concentrate on this season and focus on our current drivers – that’s important. There are many options that we are looking at at the moment and it’s not an easy one.”

Webber: We will not get carried away (BBC)

“The big unknown is still the tyres. They have been such a challenge for everyone this year, and even now, with only four races to go, no team is getting ahead of themselves in believing they really understand what is going on.”

Bottas: Young drivers need more testing (Autosport)

“It is obviously really, really difficult nowadays for young drivers to come up and we don’t need to go so much further back, only a few years ago, there was a lot of testing and younger drivers could get much more mileage.”

Wolff drives an F1 car with De Villota on her mind (Reuters)

“We were in contact a couple of weeks ago and she told me to drive for the both of us now, that I would be out there representing us both.”

Hill to drive the RB6 in Barcelona (Red Bull)

“The 1996 Formula One World Champion will be on hand on Sunday at the Circuit de Catalunya to drive the 2010 championship-winning RB6, taking over from [Sebastien] Buemi, who?ll be at the wheel on Saturday.”

Interview with team principal Monisha Kaltenborn (Sauber)

“Professionally I?m sure gender plays no role. And as I?ve been around for such a long time, I don?t think I?ll be seen more in terms of a woman than a boss. People who are new to the scene might just do a double-take at first, but that will soon settle down.”

Haynes to sell e-books independently (The Bookseller)

“Books available at launch include a Bernie Ecclestone biography, Bernie; Tiff Needell’s Tiff Gear; and Formula 1 title Memories of Senna.”

Respect for Vettel with ‘strings attatched’ (Vinayak Pande on motorsport)

“It seems a little like saying that Jim Clark can?t be considered the all-time great that he is because he only drove cars designed by the late great Colin Chapman. Or that [Jackie] Stewart?s own achievements would be diminished due to Ken Tyrell being the constant in his three titles.”

Vettel seizes the initiative in F1 title battle (Unibet)

My new article for Unibet on Sebastian Vettel taking over the lead of the drivers’ championship and how Lewis Hamilton’s season went wrong.

Tweets

Comment of the day

@Raymondu999 appraises the poultry situation at Ferrari:

Hiring Vettel to partner Alonso would be against the Ferrari tradition of a clear hen and rooster driver line-up. However I’m not too sure on this. Think back to 2009 when they announced Alonso would replace Kimi Raikkonen. At that point in time Felipe Massa was a very good driver, putting in top drives in 2009 despite his car. Given what had transpired the year before, indeed 2009 he could have been driving as the reigning world champion.

I wonder ?ǣ did they predict Massa?s slump in form back then? If not ?ǣ and I have no reason to suspect they did, given their joy at his good performances in the first few races of 2010 ?ǣ then they had every intention of pairing two roosters in the same henhouse.

On the other hand I feel anyone always has to be wary of their job security at Maranello. Montezemolo has shown in the past that he isn?t shy of ousting people as an almost knee-jerk reaction, as shown with replacing Schumacher for Raikkonen in 2006, and then replacing Raikkonen for Alonso in 2009.

Should Alonso fail to win the 2012 and 2013 titles, I don?t think it?s a big stretch of the imagination to see Montezemolo ousting Alonso for Vettel.
@Raymondu999

From the forum

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No F1 Fanatic birthdays today.

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On this day in F1

Nigel Mansell led a Williams one-two in the Mexican Grand Prix 25 years ago today.

With team mate Nelson Piquet second, Mansell remained in contention for the championship with two rounds to go.

The race was stopped shortly before half the original distance after Derek Warwick crashed heavily. Piquet led the second part of the race but with the race being decided on aggregate time Mansell only had to sit behind him to ensure victory.

Riccardo Patrese came third for Brabham, which turned out to be the last they achieved with BMW power, and only one more would follow for the team.

Here’s the start of the race:

Image ?? Red Bull/Getty images

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118 comments on Using team orders “wrong” at this stage – Horner

  1. leotef (@leotef) said on 18th October 2012, 7:46

    Webber’s standing is 5th with 152pts while Hamilton’s standing is 4th with 153pts. Hamilton scrapped his chance and Webber’s chance is said to still be alive by his boss. Interesting to see the different approach for whatever reason, though both seem to have no realistic chances.
    Massa is said to have run with Redbull style exhaust in Korea while Alonso didn’t making pace difference. India will be interesting too in terms of championship race if Ferarri comes out stronger.

    • crr917 (@crr917) said on 18th October 2012, 8:20

      Massa is said to have run with Redbull style exhaust in Korea

      Even if you didn’t see the race you should have seen some pictures maybe. I see no difference :)

      • leotef (@leotef) said on 18th October 2012, 9:08

        @crr917, I have seen the race and I think Massa’s car was in better form than Alonso’s overall.

        • crr917 (@crr917) said on 18th October 2012, 9:24

          I agree that ferrari might have tried different parts/setup on each car but it was not something as obvious as RB style exhaust.

        • raymondu999 (@raymondu999) said on 18th October 2012, 17:22

          @leotef I keep shots of the cars from every angle from every race weekend. YallaF1 was the first to report this – they got it wrong. He had the same exhaust as Alonso, which is the same exhaust they had in Canada.

          • leotef (@leotef) said on 19th October 2012, 2:04

            @raymondu999- Thanks mate for the correction. It’s getting harder and harder to discern true from false in nowadays media. Then it’s amusing to recognize Massa’s form during the race.

          • raymondu999 (@raymondu999) said on 19th October 2012, 2:08

            @leotef After every race I compile all the laptimes, and do some number crunching based on the data. What was interesting was that based on my calculations, Massa was, on the soft (not the supersoft) 0.1s/lap quicker than Webber and Alonso. Even if we assume Webber was cruising, Alonso was still slower than Massa. Mind-boggling.

          • leotef (@leotef) said on 19th October 2012, 2:39

            @raymondu999, Yeah, that was so obvious during the race as for somebody to question on Ferrari’s strategy. Remembering that source is Spanish, and assuming they used the same thing all across not only in exhaust but other parts together, they might have tried to provide some excuse to Alonso’s relatively poor performance I suspect.

          • raymondu999 (@raymondu999) said on 19th October 2012, 3:43

            @leotef Yes. As a neutral outsider (my nationality is nowhere near represented by any current F1 driver) I’ve always thought that Spanish press, and Australian press, seem a bit spineless in that they always need to give an excuse for bad performances – it’s never the driver in the wrong. On the contrary, if it was a victory, it was the driver prevailing against all odds.

          • leotef (@leotef) said on 19th October 2012, 4:01

            LOL so true. No mea culpa. Everything has been Hamilton’s fault. ;D
            No I’m just kidding.

    • Robbie (@robbie) said on 20th October 2012, 2:30

      @leotef … regarding your first comment up top about Webber’s chances while he stands one point less than LH who has written his season off. Was going to point that out too. That’s why I think Horner is being a bit disingenuous, or at least, he knows the odds are slim that MW will do enough to win it, and probably already MW knows he doesn’t need to be ordered to not take points away from SV. Or certainly after one more race it will likely go without saying that MW’s responsibility will be to the team and it’s sponsors to not impede SV. So Horner is right…no team order will be necessary.

  2. Chalky (@chalky) said on 18th October 2012, 8:37

    Nigel Mansell led a Williams one-two in the Mexican Grand Prix 25 years ago today

    I feel old this morning. :(

  3. JamieFranklinF1 (@jamiefranklinf1) said on 18th October 2012, 9:27

    “If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.”

    I wish I hadn’t missed that. For some reason, I thought that my birthday was in my profile somewhere. I guess I’ll have to wait another year until I can have my name in the birthday section of the round-up :P

  4. thejudge13 (@thejudge13) said on 18th October 2012, 13:05

    It appears there have been a number of Porsche F1 stories knocking around recently (link) but Joe Saward feels these are premature and their focus will be on the LMP1 class (link). Yet could Cosworth provide them with an opportunity. Unlike Lola, Cosworth are not going bust, but need funds for a number of projects including getting the 2014 F1 engines from the drawing board into build. They have recently diversified their agineering and apparently have suitors like Rolls Royce interested.

    • thejudge13 (@thejudge13) said on 18th October 2012, 17:36

      read “engineering activities” NOT “agineering” – which I suppose could be some kind of DNA based bio reseach on how to reduce ageing. Still Mr. E would be happy I guess…he’s warming up now for a rendition of “Who wants to live forever…” – FM

  5. The Limit said on 18th October 2012, 14:17

    Christian Horner, much like Martin Whitmarsh, likes to suggest that Red Bull supports both drivers equally. The fact remains that Red Bull will most likely support the driver with the best chance of winning the championship and that isn’t Mark Webber. Also, never underestimate to influence of Helmut Marko at Red Bull either. Vettel is going for a third straight world championship whereas Webber has yet to win one title. The choice, sadly for Mark Webber, is obvious.

  6. thejudge13 (@thejudge13) said on 18th October 2012, 16:26

    Here’s one for the roundup maybe.

    Nikki Lauda told a court today how Michael Seidl and his Money Service Group (MSG) swindled him out of 500,000 euros. Seidl is accused of persuading 44 of the rich and famous in Austria to invest 30 million in his pyramid scheme. Those paraded as sponsors of this charade and used to entice investors like Lauda were the Sauber F1 team, the Swiss Football Association amongst others.

    The total taken by MSG is around 70m Euros and auditors found only 200,000 Euros of assets behind the scheme including cigars, fine wine and jewellery. Lauda said in court “In my entire life I have never been so ripped off as I was with this con. The bottom line is that he [Seidl] was a complete con man – I should have punched him when I had the chance to bring the point home”. ( http://wp.me/p2HWOP-cI )

    Niki Lauda wore a blue cap with MSG on the front for 6 months in 2011, before realising his mistake and persuading Aabar Ivestments pay for his hats instead. (Austrian Times).

    The shrewd board of Daimler Benz has appointed Niki to uncover profligate waste and use all his acumen to guide Merceds AMG F1 to success.

  7. Christian Horner: “We Won’t use team orders.”

    Reaction in comments: “OHMYGERD HE MUST BE LYING THAT DASTARDLY DASTARDLY MAN!”

    • beneboy (@beneboy) said on 18th October 2012, 22:04

      @bendana
      To be honest I can’t look at Horner without wanting to throw something at the TV, there’s something about him which is incredibly unpleasant and even though I’ve got no personal knowledge or experience of him I wouldn’t trust a word he says.

      It may be an irrational reaction to someone I don’t know and have never met but he just comes across as a slimy little toad and I automatically assume every word that he utters is a lie.

  8. raymondu999 (@raymondu999) said on 19th October 2012, 3:46

    I cannot imagine it to be good on Mark Webber’s confidence that he has basically never won a WDC – nor come second in the standings, in 3 separate cars that his teammate has gotten 3 straight titles.

    I’ve always liked Mark but I feel he’s past his peak as a driver, and at this point, he (deep down) feels he might be gunning more for individual wins than titles.

  9. AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 20th October 2012, 13:31

    Great COTD @raymondu999

    It’s a shame for Cosworth that they’re going up for sale but it’s also an opportunity for someone to come in with a bit more money and really exploit the clear talent they have. I hope and expect they wills tick around.

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