F1 Fanatic

164 comments on Hamilton vs Button: Four races left, five points in it

1. 

   Fernando Cruz said on 18th October 2012, 14:07

   Hamilton should have much more points than Button, but he lost a lot with mistakes and also suffered more mechanical failures and bad strategy from his team. Furthermore Button is very intelligent, like a Prost, and that also meant he challenged Hamilton much more than we could expect.

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2. 

   Switchbacker (@switchbacker) said on 18th October 2012, 14:08

   Very insightful article, Button has proven himself to be a strong driver.

   Would be great to complement this with comparison of points lost due to non-driver factors (pit stop errors, failure, strategy blunders) between the two, and indeed the whole grid.

   Id put a lot of money on Hamilton being unluckiest driver over 3 years by a distance. Pretty crazy that the best driver in one of best cars can be off the pace despite only making one significant error all season that I can recall.

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   • 

     Switchbacker (@switchbacker) said on 18th October 2012, 14:09

     *off the pace in the championship I meant…

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   • 

     bosyber (@bosyber) said on 18th October 2012, 14:51

     Though we do have to remember @switchbacker that operational errors (though mostly slow pitstops and weird strategy, some missed wheels featured too last year didn’t they?) were the reason McLaren got Sam Michael – not everyone’s choice, but they did need to fix those. And I think the mistakes were in previous years more clear on Buttons car (Monaco side-pod blocked, silverstone wheel left off …).

     Hamilton more often suffered from odd, or unrealistic, strategies, which points to a problem between him and the team in sorting that out. Button has at times “lucked around” those, or been too slow to show up the problem (though Hungary …).

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3. 

   Ginola14 (@ginola14) said on 18th October 2012, 14:09

   Both Button and Hamilton had been let down by McLaren’s unreliability in equal measure it has to be said. We all know McLaren has no problems producing a fast car (even though it might not be the class of the field in a particular season; it’s enough to pose a serious threat at the front end and score wins).

   In the last 10 years, it has problems producing a fast AND reliable car though. A team of McLaren’s resources with only 1 driver’s and 0 constructor’s title in the last 10 years needs to do some soul-searching over the dismal title drought. I think that’s why Lewis got fed up (and likewise Kimi earlier on) with always having a title challenge undermined by unreliability. Jenson will feel the same if the trend carries on in 2013.

   Lewis has had his tantrums and might strike some fans as immature but you can’t argue against his raw pace and natural talent and over the course of 3 years, he was definitely the faster of the 2 drivers at McLaren.

   It will be interesting to see the Lewis vs Nico battle. Is Nico up there with there with Lewis in terms of raw speed? As for Jenson vs Sergio, not sure how to call on that. It could go the same way as David vs Kimi in 2002 where David was outranked in qualifying but scored heavily compared to his new inexperience team-mate.

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   • 

     Ginola14 (@ginola14) said on 18th October 2012, 14:16

     The greatest weakness that Button has perhaps is that if the car is not set up to his liking, he completely falls off the cliff as we saw in Canada this year when he was lapped by Hamilton. Whereas the likes of Raikkonen, Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel can drive around the same problem and still deliver a competitive finish.

     I like Button as a driver and you can count on him to deliver some top-drawer glorious moments that have fans on the edge of their seats like Canada last year. The walloping he gave an out-of-sorts Lewis last year was i feel, a more majestic effort than even his 2009 season in comparison. He will retire in future with a F1 career to be proud of. He is however close but maybe just not close enough to be part of the stratosphere that the likes of Alonso reside in. If you put Button in the F2012, he won’t disgrace the car and he would definitely outpace Massa but he probably won’t wring as much out of the car as Alonso – which is what the super-elite drivers will do.

     Put it this way, if a poll were to be done now on which current drivers would squeeze in into a revised list of all-time top 20 F1 drivers, Jenson’s name probably won’t figure in the discussion as prominently as super-elite drivers like Alonso, Vettel, Raikkonen and of coz, MSC.

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4. 

   LSL1337 (@lsl1337) said on 18th October 2012, 14:10

   And when did Hamilton beat Alonso?, when was this again?5 second place vs 3 second place, not realy beating someone…
   Button had just as many mistakes on his side of the garage (like 2010, Monaco engine cover, silverstone, tyre change, etc)
   so, after 54 races, we can say they pretty much neck and neck, even though Button lacks the ultimate pace, but he is still pretty good, and consistency is VERY important in F1. If it weren’t for the mysterious 2012 mid season slump of Button, he would be ahead, but maybe we can say the same last year about Hamilton’s mid season (massa run-ins).

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   • 

     Fernando Cruz said on 18th October 2012, 14:54

     The mysterious 2012 mid season slump of Button is no longer a mystery: he simply took a lot of time to cope with the best way to warm his tyres in a single lap, given the very short performance window of this year’s tyres. It happened the same to Bruno Senna, a driver with a similarly smooth driving style. In some races they also had problems, particularly in Canada, where they didn’t manage to conserve their tyres to be competitive and Button finished a lap behind his winning team mate.
     Button’s luck is that he has the full support of a top team and much more experience than Senna, who still has the problem of losing FP1 almost everywhere.

     The real mystery is why were they both competitive enough until Bahrein, when they started suffering more in comparison with their team mates.

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     • 

       Gubstar said on 18th October 2012, 17:17

       Completely agree with all of this!! Most punters watching on television have NO CLUE about how much the tyres effect different driving styles, and how it varies from circuit to circuit. Button reminds me of prost, when the car is good, and too his liking, (which isnt very often) he is unbeatable(canada 11, australia 12,spa 12, the first 6 races of 09)
       And considering how much time Bruno has lost this year to Bottas(who maybe quick on one lap by himself, but his lower formula racecraft was awful) and how well Bruno has raced in comparison to Pastor, it is a no-brainer that Williams should keep him next year. He is clearly very talented(despite what a lot of the normal poster think on this site) but hasnt been given a fair crack at the whip

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5. 

   Sean N (@sean-p-newmanlive-co-uk) said on 18th October 2012, 14:49

   The Hamilton v Button comparison reminds me of another McLaren pairing that varied in their comparative success in the same way. When Raikkonen and Montoya were paired, generally if the car was good Raikkonen was faster. When the car was not so good is was Montoya.
   They also remind me another famous McLaren paring, that of Senna and Prost. Whilst their comparative performance was also governed by the cars handling, albeit to a lesser degree the main similarity is that Senna wore his heart on his sleeve like Hamiltion and Prost was much more political and savy like Button.
   If Hamilton and Button had continued as teams mates beyond this season and learned each others relative strengths, then both they and McLaren would have reaped the benefits.

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6. 

   BasCB (@bascb) said on 18th October 2012, 14:54

   Button certainly has done a good move with leaving Brawn and going for McLaren. He did impress and build on the success from winning. But I think Hamilton did more damage to his own campaigns by panicking and losing his way than by not learning what made Button win over him last year.

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7. 

   Ed Marques (@edmarques) said on 18th October 2012, 15:06

   Hamilton would be far ahead if wasn’t by his problems. In that, you can count mechanical failures, accidents, and other things. The points total don’t say a lot for me, at least on this case. Hamilton is undoubtedly a better driver, and i’m sure Mclaren will miss him. And I’m not saying but isn’t a great driver (obviously he is) just that he is not in the top 3 driver list.

   Keith in 2010 on the Spanish grand prix Hamilton had a tyre failure when he was in second, 2 to laps to the end. He lost 18 points on that one, and fot those who loves numbers, that would had give him the title.

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   • 

     Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 18th October 2012, 15:08

     @edmarques The 2010 Spanish Grand Prix is mentioned in the article.

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   • 

     Ed Marques (@edmarques) said on 18th October 2012, 15:08

     Haha now i saw it the note about the Spanish Grand Prix.

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   • 

     safeeuropeanhome (@debaser91) said on 18th October 2012, 15:41

     You can say even more for Vettel though, guaranteed 25 gone in Korea, 25 in Australia, 13 in Bahrain and they’re just the ones that immediately spring to mind, there are probably more.

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     • 

       Ed Marques (@edmarques) said on 18th October 2012, 16:11

       Yes, he had problems in another race at least.

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8. 

   Toxic (@toxic) said on 18th October 2012, 15:39

   Considering the fact that Button came to the Hamilton’s team in 2010 it is quite a good score of his abilities.
   He had to learn so many things about the team and adjust his driving to Hamilton’s liking.
   For me he has been better of the two. Maybe Hamilton has the edge in quali but Sunday’s matter the most. Also when Button gets the setup right, he is quite remarkable in quali as well.

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9. 

   ibra said on 18th October 2012, 15:47

   a lot of blabla going on, it’s very simple, who would you hire if you had an F1 team? For me , Hamilton.

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   • 

     Poul Winther (@poul) said on 18th October 2012, 15:58

     Lol! Then I would forget these two and hire Kimi for sure! Just as fast, super consistent, zero diva-BS and much funnier interviews! :-)

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     • 

       ibra said on 18th October 2012, 18:23

       Mate stop kidding, he can’t even beat grosjean on pure speed….

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       • 

         Dizzy-A (@david-a) said on 19th October 2012, 4:48

         Yes he can.

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10. 

    23kennyboy23 said on 18th October 2012, 15:58

    I feel the current set of rules has slightly favoured Button’s strengths over the last 3 years, and has closed things up a bit. Hamilton struggled with the tyres in early 2010 whilst it suited button, and drs has taken the skill out of overtaking and reduced the penalty for a bad qualifying.

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    • 

      ibra said on 18th October 2012, 18:28

      I totally agree, if we had the 2008-spec rules hamilton would do the same to button that he did to kovalainen…its just a shame now that F1 is all about mamanging the car and not driving it fast!!

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      • 

        23kennyboy23 said on 18th October 2012, 22:41

        I rate button much higher than Kovalainen so not entirely sure about that but the margin would be greater. Since mclaren have rarely had the pace to be on the front row these last 3 years Button’s lack of qualifying pace would have been a much bigger problem w/o DRS. Kobayashi has also suffered from the DRS as one of his main and unique strengths was overtaking, which is less important these days.

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11. 

    Jake (@jleigh) said on 18th October 2012, 16:22

    From the comments I’ve read so far there seems to be a general consensus that Lewis is the quickest of the two, but is not a “complete” driver, not consistent etc.

    However, I think this is because a lot of people are a little too stuck on the second 3/4 s of the 2011 season. If you look at 2010 and 2012 I can only think of 1 driving error from Lewis which was his move on Massa in Monza. That’s pretty impressive consistency if you ask me, in fact it’s probably less than any other driver (I may have forgotten 1 or 2, but that probably means they weren’t particularly significant). Ok, he’s made the odd wrong call on strategy (china 2010) or set-up (spa 2012) but in terms of consistent drivers, I’d say in 2010 and 2012 he’s been even better than Alonso.

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12. 

    OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 18th October 2012, 16:54

    Please somebody reminds me the number of victories they had in these McLaren years (I mean don’t include Jenson’s Brawn or that one-hit-wonder Button had with Honda)

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    • 

      William Brierty said on 18th October 2012, 18:31

      Hamilton – 9 wins, 7 poles, so far…
      Button – 7 wins, 1 pole, so far…
      Hamilton/Button era – 16 wins, 8 poles, so far…

      but

      Vettel in same period – 20 wins, 29 poles

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      • 

        Jake (@jleigh) said on 18th October 2012, 21:26

        But … RB a significantly better car for at 75% of the time.

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        • 

          Dizzy-A (@david-a) said on 18th October 2012, 21:36

          But, Mclaren have usually been > Ferrari, yet Alonso has equal wins to Hamilton (and more than Button).

          Alonso and Vettel have the best results for their cars over the last 3 years IMO.

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          • 

            Jake (@jleigh) said on 18th October 2012, 22:50

            But, Ferrari and Red Bull are considerably more competent … We could go on and on, but my point is that merely looking at numbers in a specific way doesn’t tell the whole story.
13. 

    electrolite (@electrolite) said on 18th October 2012, 17:15

    I think neither driver has been anywhere consistent enough to be honest!

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    • 

      Dizzy-A (@david-a) said on 18th October 2012, 21:37

      @electrolite I agree.

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14. 

    sketchyterry (@sketchyterry) said on 18th October 2012, 17:37

    What about where Hamilton was given the 24 place penalty in this years Spanish GP?

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15. 

    William Brierty said on 18th October 2012, 18:24

    This is perhaps one of the greatest pub debate topics ever, but unfortunately it is a short debate. I think we all foresaw Hamilton having the upper hand back in 2010, but happily, its been much closer than we initially imagined. However, saying that, I think it is also valid to say most of the time Button has beaten Hamilton, Hamilton has had some kind of hiccup that weekend, whether it be setup, technical issues, a mistake or that lack of focus that sometimes mists around Hamilton. In a fair qualifying, Hamilton’s ballistic one-lap pace has Button beaten by 2/10th normally, and although it is closer in the race, Hamilton can generally keep Button under control.

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    • 

      electrolite (@electrolite) said on 18th October 2012, 22:24

      I also think Button’s dips in form have been a lot more ‘clear cut’, and kept in the space of a few races, like earlier this year. Hamilton tends to be more win, retire, win, crash etc…Not that either is a good thing, to be honest!

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