Adrian Newey, Red Bull, Montreal, 2012

Alonso: ‘We’re fighting against Newey’

2012 Indian Grand PrixPosted on Author Keith Collantine

Adrian Newey, Red Bull, Montreal, 2012Fernando Alonso pointed out Red Bull’s performance advantage after qualifying fifth for the Indian Grand Prix.

He told reporters after qualifying his battle is as much against Red Bull’s chief technical officer Adrian Newey as title rival Sebastian Vettel.

“At the moment I am or, or we are not, fighting against Sebastian only,” said Alonso, “we are fighting against Newey, let’s say, because they are first and second in the last four* races.

“So it’s not so easy at the moment to fight especially on Saturday. On Sunday normally we are a little bit more competitive.

“So tomorrow we need to overtake Mclaren as soon as possible and put some pressure on the Red Bull to wait for some little mistake from them or pit stop problem or reliability or something because if they can start and go away and have an easy race that will be the worst news for us.”

Alonso said he couldn’t realistically expect to qualify any higher for the race: “I think this is our normal position at the moment behind Red Bull and McLaren.

“Even if it looks disappointment I think it’s our normal position at the end of the day you have to do it because Force India, Kimi [Raikkonen] they were quite fast so you can end up eighth or ninth very quickly.

“So fifth at at the end of the day is our position and a good starting position for tomorrow’s fight.”

*Red Bull have been first and second on the grid for the last three races.

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134 comments on “Alonso: ‘We’re fighting against Newey’”

  1. Maybe FIA should ban Newey oneday?

    1. They will try ;)

    2. Just confirms what I’ve suspected: If you want equality in F1 then ban Adrian Newey! (note: not all his cars have been out and out winners. See MP4-18 and notoriously the FW16 and FW16C)

      1. I think you mean the MP4-19 no? Wasn’t the 19 the stillborn?

      2. Ok, the MP4-18 failed the crashtest, but the bests examples of bad Newey cars were the the slow and unreliable MP4-17 and 19. And the MP4-21 even failed to win a single GP. It’s only since he joined Red Bull that Newey’s outsmarted the others consistently. They really give him wings.

        1. Newey’s has two rules It’s only cheating if you get caught and if your not cheating you are only cheating yourself (bending/stretching the rules).

          1. ..and that is why Alonso said he is fighting Newey.

        2. davidnotcoulthard
          28th October 2012, 6:01

          Were the RB02-RB04 even race winners?

        3. davidnotcoulthard
          28th October 2012, 6:02

          The Leyton Houses?

  2. Alonso needs a mega-race now. Similar to Valencia 2012, Singapore 2010, Hungary 2006. He has to transcend to a completely another level for two hours tomorrow. Knowing his past, he is capable of doing it.

    1. Singapore 2010? He started from pole and was never seriously under threat from Vettel.

      1. @f1fannl I wouldn’t call Vettel consistently 5-7 tenths behind for 61 laps as an “unserious” threat though :P

        1. @raymondu999

          DRS-less Singapore = No overtaking a car that is a tenth or so slower.
          Everybody knew Alonso just had to keep it on the road to win it.

      2. Vettel should have won as comfortably as he had done in the last 2 GPs and all through 2011. However Alonso managed to outqualify him and keep him behind the whole race whilst posting the Grand Chelm somehow despite barely being over 1s ahead of him.

        1. Not really, Ferrari were really competitive that weekend, and capable of winning the race (Massa had a technical issue that put him 24th on the grid). Still a great drive from Alonso of course.

    2. what do you mean with Valencia 2012? Oh yep, he needs a Vettel’s car failure. That’s a “mega-race”.

      1. Look, even had not Vettel’s car failed, Alonso still would have managed P2.

        1. That’s the whole point though, Vettel would have been 32 points more ahead, in spite of his epic racing. In this two way title fight, it is completely irrelevant in what position Alonso finishes, as long as it’s in front of Vettel. 6th place is preferable to 2nd if it means finishing ahead.

          Regarding Valencia, Grosjean’s car also gave up the ghost.

          1. he had passed romain and pulled away.

          2. @q85 My bad, I thought Romain was catching up with a chance of winning it before he dropped out.

        2. @eggry

          No, Ferrari and Alonso managed P2. If not for the teams quick stops (or McLaren’s and Lotus’ poor pitstop) he would have been behind Raikkonen and Hamilton at the restart. He only passed a Force India and a Williams and then Grosjean at the restart.

          If that’s a mega race and transcending to another level than what was Vettel’s race at Spa? Vettel overtook Massa, Webber, Senna, Di Resta and was about to pass Schumacher while managing his tyres well enough so he could do one stop less than the cars around him.

  3. “At the moment I am or, or we are not, fighting against Sebastian only,” said Alonso, “we are fighting against Newey, let’s say, because they are first and second in the last four* races.

    I’d like to clarify (highlight) that just in case not a similar bash-fest starts here as it did on the Autosport forum.

    1. @kingshark Alonso’s quote is slightly different in the press release Ferrari have put out:

      Clearly, finishing ahead of Red Bull is our aim, but today it was impossible to fight them, at least in qualifying: when we had a similar car, it was possible to fight with Vettel and we have even been ahead of them, but now we are fighting against Newey and, at the moment we cannot match him.

      1. So we can bash Alonso now… down with him!!!!!!

      2. The quote from Vettel when asked abput what Alonso said:

        Q: Today your title rival Fernando Alonso said that he is not racing against you but against Adrian Newey. How would you reply to his statement?
        SV: I don’t think that in general this is just a fight between us race drivers; it is rather a competition amongst teams and all of their members. If you walk into the Red Bull Racing garage you will see that every single individual is committed 100 per cent to making the team more competitive, even if someone is not feeling entirely well. So I don’t think that this would be a fair statement towards any team member.

  4. Real question is : “Who does Red Bull value the most- Adrian Newey or Sebastian Vettel???”, IMO Christian Horner should choose Adrian for he is the RBR’s main pillar!

    1. Red Bull don’t pay Vettel or Webber much. They pay Newey a lot. So that clearly tells whom Red Bull think is more valuable.

      Vettel and Webber get a lot of bonus on every win though.

    2. @akshay
      Does it matter? Currently they have both, and its not like RB can only afford one of them. There is no need for Horner to decide who is more important.

      1. @mads – It was a hypothetical question!! All I wanted to convey is that in RBR’s success Adrian Newey is the major share holder!!!

    3. @akshay,

      You could also ask yourself this. What would Red Bull have to show for with Newey if they hadn’t brought Vettel into the team but had replaced Coulthard with someone of the same caliber or less than Webber.

      1. Agreed Vettel has been fantastic!! But look at the current drivers line up: Alonso, Kimi, Ham, Vettel….there is very little to choose between them! This is where Newey has been a great asset to both RBR and Vettel for he has been phenomonal with his designs and his car has been brutal in the latter half of the season!

      2. davidnotcoulthard
        28th October 2012, 6:08

        What if DC stayed in ’09? I think he would’ve probably stayed in ’10 as well…and he would’ve won the title, which would have been Mansell-esque.

        1. Well, DC had been outclassed by Webber in 2008, so no, Coulthard would not have become champion (he also didn’t do so with the 1995 Williams, or 1998-2000 Mclarens).

    4. Well if you think about it.. before Vettel, RBR didn´t even had a win, in 2010 probably Alonso would have won driver, and las year it would have been Button… so yes Newey is brillian! But is Vettel the one that have made the team have this level of sucess

      1. If Webber had been Red Bull’s #1 driver since 2009? I’d say he’d be a 1 time world champion, maybe 2 time. His performances, especially when the car has not been so dominant, have been good,better than Vettel at times and if the car had been developed to suit him then I don’t see why success would not have come his way.

        1. @katederby I call ** on this car not being designed around him notion.

          All of their years as teammates, since 2009, Vettel and Webber have copied each other’s setups often, indicating that the two of them like similar characteristics in their cars.

          1. Just going on what Red Bull openly said in 2010 that the car would be based around Vettel. Not that there’s anything wrong with that at all but it is a fact and even if the 2 drivers have similar styles they are not the same.

          2. The team is based around Vettel in general, he has more support, that is obvious. Just have to look at the reactions of the team when each driver gets pole to clearly see that. Not to mention Marco.

          3. @ivz – They (Horner & Newey) weren’t necessarily jumping around today on the pitwall when Vettel got pole, it actually looked similar to last week. The only difference was Marko going around the pitwall.

        2. @katederby

          But even when Webber had the car advantage, Vettel was outscoring him. So I see no reason for Webber to have been a 1 or 2 times World Champion based on that.
          Could he have done more if the car was based solely on him? Probably. But I believe Newey and his team just built and develop the car the way they thinks is best, as evident by the changes Vettel wasn’t happy with even though Red Bull said they would built the team (and car?) around Vettel.

          1. But the suggestion was a theoretical one where Vettel was not in the Red Bull, so all I’m saying is in that scenario I see no reason for Webber not winning titles. And RBR themselves said in 2010 that the car will be built around Vettel, that’s not up for dispute, it’s a fact as 2011 showed. I don’t see why this is a problem to some, it seems logical to me.

  5. There are other people in Red Bull who make the car go faster; Peter Prodromou and Rob Marshall for example.
    Newey is a key cog, but he can’t single-handedly make the car go much faster than the competition.
    (I am not disputing his greatness; I’m just syaing that other people need the recognition as well)

    1. Agreed. I think people overhype Newey without giving the rest of the team enough credit

      1. I still believe that Newey is one of the best, if not the best designer in F1, but the rest of his team deserve at least some credit; Newey is only the best, because he works with the best.
        (If that makes sense)

    2. Credit goes to so many people at Red Bull. But it is the driver who ultimately delivers. I don’t see enough credit been given to Vettel here.

      1. Not really; Newey is the only person you hear mentioned, and when Vettel wins, he supposedly has the best car, which apparantly renders his driving skills obselete.

  6. Poor Newey. He desgins a great car yet again and people bash him for it. :p

    1. He’s not bashing him – I think it’s more a flattering comment, to be honest…

    2. I don’t think Alonso is having a go at Newey for designing a great car.

    3. He desgins a great car yet again and people bash him for it

      He is not talking about Alonso

      1. I’m sure Popcorn will tell us if we’ve got the wrong end of the stick. But the article is about Alonso and no one else has been mentioned by name.

    4. The truth is that Alonso´s comment is in no way bashing Newey…. if you wanna take it as bashing, he is bashing Vettel…. He just said in other words, that Vettel is only as competitive as he is thanks to Newey…
      I sometimes wonder why people tend to misunderstand or fail to interpret what is being said when it is as clear as day…

      1. davidnotcoulthard
        28th October 2012, 6:19

        …….People tend to misunderstand or fail to interpret what is being said when it is as clear as day.

        If you’ve ever seen the comments and replies people post on EspnStar (www dot espnstar dot com), then you might not be posting that comment here, now that I’ve come to think of it…

        I don’t think Fernando was trying to bash anyone though, especially by using the word only.

      2. @catracho504

        That’s not what Alonso said. Alonso said he’s no longer fighting Vettel but Newey as well, so Vettel and Newey. He said he was capable of fighting Vettel when the cars were equal but now he’s got a car disadvantage because of Newey.

        So, in a way, he’s saying his own team isn’t good enough. He’s not saying Vettel isn’t good enough.

    5. Looks like smiley faces are not enough to indicate sarcasm anymore lol.. its ok Popcorn, I understood what you meant.. ;)

    6. I want Adrian Newey to design a car for me. Not that I can pay for it, but hey…

  7. Fighting implies that they are in a position to challenge them, but currently they don’t seem capable of it.

  8. There are two key elements in winning world championships in Formula 1: the first is a good car (and credit to everyone at Milton Keynes for being able to achieve such a feat, not just Newey); the second is a good driver (your not going to get pole positions if your driver can’t put in the lap times). Both deserve equal credit in my point of view, for one would not work without the other.

    1. There are two key elements in winning world championships in Formula 1: the second is a good driver (your not going to get pole positions if your driver can’t put in the lap times).

      Good by F1 standards? Jacques Villeneuve defies your logic, sir. ;)

      1. Replace Jacques with a back marker today (let’s say De La Rosa) and I could be almost certain that Schumacher would have been an 8-time world champion.

        His father Gilles is a great example of my point; he was a fantastic driver, arguably one of the fastest of all time, but he never won a championship. Albeit his time was tragically cut short but the point stands; if the cars’ not quick enough your not going to win championships and visa-versa.

        On the contrary, Lewis Hamilton lost out in the 2007 championship to Räikkönen (although that was more likely due to inexperience and intense rivalry within the team) but still he didn’t win in the fastest car.

        As I always say, the best drivers usually end up in the best cars, and that’s no coincidence.

    2. Well, that’s for sure. But the question is one of that factor is not something to be replaced by others whereas the other factor is substitute-able. As usual, that’s the problem.

  9. At the moment I am or, or we are not, fighting against Sebastian only, we are fighting against Newey

    Not really much to disagree with here, as much as the focus is on the drivers, the drivers championship is all about the driver/team combination. Although Alonso is at the peak of his career and has driven better than anyone this year you can’t continue to score beyond the performance of the car like Alonso did in the mid-season. Alonso’s title challenge was built on two miraculous wins in Malaysia and Valencia, two great wet qualifying laps and McLaren and Red Bull falling over themselves despite having faster cars. Even when Alonso had an decent lead in the championship, he was always going to be extremely vulnerable if either of the two top teams sorted themselves out.

    As in 2010 rather than Vettel being the best driver (I feel Hamilton and Alonso have driven better) the title win will be won by Vettel/Red Bull having the best all round package over the course of the year, which like I say is what the drivers championship is all about. Alonso might deserve to win the championship for the way he’s driven, but Ferrari don’t deserve to win the championship with the car they’ve produced.

    1. Alonso might deserve to win the championship for the way he’s driven, but Ferrari don’t deserve to win the championship with the car they’ve produced.

      I think this is a serious message from Fernando to his engineers this season he doesn’t only drove very well but he was 100% involved in the development of the car i give you an example after the Malaysian GP when the team returned to Italy Alonso was working at the Factory at 8 in the morning we all know that Fernando doesn’t need the fastest car to win the WDC a decent one is enough
      let’s say a Lotus but the team failed to give him that decent car at the beginning of the season & all the season while the other teams were developing their cars Ferrari were correcting the design errors
      I will not be surprised if some engineers will be fired after the end of this season just like Aldo Costa considering how influential Alonso is on Luca Di Montezemolo

      1. as things are going, Ferrari has a decent car and it’s proving not good enough to win the WDC, so you can’t say “Fernando doesn’t need the fastest car to win …”

        Any driver that wins or is competing for a win needs to be in one of the fastest cars. And just having the fastest car does ensure anything, ask Button and Hamilton who’ve been in the fastest car for the bulk of this season. Or Kimi in the 4th fastest car and he’s 3rd in the championship.

        1. As i mentioned before some people (& i respects all of them) do have selective memory how about the first 4 races of the season when Ferrari technical director said that the podiums are out of reach & the car was undrivable & 1.2s off the pace if that was a decent car for you then we have to discuss what is a “decent” car

          Or Kimi in the 4th fastest car and he’s 3rd in the championship

          I advise you to re watch the first half of the season because Kimi was sitting in the fastest car on the grid in term of race pace even Grosjean was able to put that car in the second row in Australia

          1. I advise you to re watch the first half of the season because Kimi was sitting in the fastest car on the grid in term of race pace even Grosjean was able to put that car in the second row in Australia

            And yet they (and Hamilton & Button) get less criticism for not leading the championship in the fastest car, than Vettel gets for actually leading in the fastest car!

          2. I advise you to re watch the first half of the season because Kimi was sitting in the fastest car on the grid in term of race pace even Grosjean was able to put that car in the second row in Australia

            We all have selective memories. Just from what you are saying here, McLaren and Lotus had the best car through the first part of the season, not to mention China with Mercedes. So Vettel staying within in shouting distance of the championship in a decent car (remember the whole exhaust issue in China and he didn’t qualify in the top 10 either) and winning Bahrain in what was clearly not the fastest car, are down him as a driver. Outside of the first 4 races or so, Ferrari has had a decent car and you can say that RB has only had the fastest car since Singapore, or round 14.

            As of right now, Ferrari has a very decent car, and had one when Fernando was leading the WDC, so we’ll put to the test the statement and idea that’s all he needs to win.

            Over the course of the season, from the beginning, then during the 4 race run they had until Singapore and again today with a very competitive P3 and P4, McLaren’s has had the best and fastest car for the entire season. So this season is really a season of lost opportunities by McLaren and making hay while the sun shines for both Vettel and Alonso.

            The truth of it is that Alonso went to Ferrari because he anticipated that they would be building one of the fastest cars, or the fastest car, on the grid every season. Because if you are a driver who wants to win you want to be in the fastest car. Basically the statement that’s true for Alsonso is probably “give him the fastest car and he will win the WDC”. Vettel has also proved that as well. McLaren has shown this year and previously in 2007 that having the fastest car doesn’t ensure that they will be able to have one of their drivers win the WDC. (and you could say that 2007 showed that Alonso isn’t always capable of winning the WDC in the fastest car on the grid).

          3. @tifoso1989

            I think ‘decent car’ means something different to everybody. You obviously perceive a decent car to be able to at least score podiums. I think a decent car is a car able to at least score a healthy amount of points. A 5th place for example is just that. Decent.

            Well for me anyway.

  10. Fernando Alonso clearly doesn’t have faith in his own team’s ability in development, which to be perfectly honest I don’t blame him for. I believe his comment is directly aimed at Maranello; Red Bull have the better designers. If he’s relying in problems for the guys in front to be able to challenge for victories then I think the championship is slipping away from him I fast.

    1. Fundamentally the F2012 could perhaps have been stronger – even in the early stages where the RB8 wasn’t necessarily the fastest it was pretty consistent from the off. I think Ferrari have done a better job development-wise than in the past this year though.

      1. I think Ferrari have done a better job development-wise than in the past this year though.

        Completely disagree. Their barcelona update consisted of fixing huge flaws in design such as the exhaust layout so I would barely call that good development work. Even mid season Ferrari were never the fastest car or most consistent. It was Fernando who was taking the most out of the car while Vettel, Webber and Button were faltering. When the going got tough … Ferrari dropped the ball again in car development.

    2. Fernando Alonso clearly doesn’t have faith in his own team’s ability in development

      It seems that many people have selective memory or they are just searching to attack the others
      how about Vettel complaining last year before the summer break begging his team for ameliorate his car performance ,how about this year when he choose to race with the old specs car in Malaysia ………….
      Well if you have the guys at Maranello(who are not very good at aerodynamics) & all the trouble that they face in development(Wind Tunnel) & you’re complaining it’s very normal but if you have Adrian Newey & his team who are very good at Aerodynamics & you’re complaining
      WHAT DO WE CALL THAT????????

      I’m not trying to attack anyone but i’m just answering you with your logic

      1. Max Jacobson attacks Ferrari and Alonso at every chance he gets. He discredits his own posts.

        1. @infy – I am not attacking Alonso at all, if anything I’m attacking Ferrari. I said Alonso doesn’t have much faith in the aerodynamicists back at Marenello, and as I said I don’t blame him for such.

          Usually I’m defending Vettel’s driving ability since Alonso fans seem particularly fond of detrimenting his skill as a driver because he is winning yet again.

      2. @tifoso1989 – Ferrari have lagged behind Red Bull recently and their updates don’t seem to have worked. Initially that was due to wind tunnel correlation of data to the track, but the recent updates were done in a straight line test. All I’m saying is that Alonso is perhaps uncertain that his team can win him the championship, and he is absolutely justified to think that: Red Bull have clearly out-developed the rest of the field. Perhaps he is also just admiring Newey’s skill.

  11. It’d be better if RBR was just slightly faster than the other leading teams.
    But the margin is so large that its just not funny anymore.

    1. Well, RBR are slightly faster than the other teams, but with a driver of Vettel’s caliber (i.e. the calibre only Alonso is also at), a small gap will appear large.

      1. You’re fighting a losing battle David-A. I come here for comedic value only… ;)

        1. Well, I guess that the people who exaggerate (like Jason above, or stirper with his posts on this page), will give you your share of comedic value :)

          1. This forum is swimming with them! Which is why it’s so fun. Can’t wait to see what it’s like when (and if) Vettel wins the Championship at the end. The excuses and bitterness will be priceless!

  12. Newey is the F1’s steve jobs. They took the worst car and did it an invincible one.
    Today grosjean or any driver with a third red Bull had finish almost in third position in qualifying

    1. Newey is a sales person?

    2. even mark webber was fighting for title.Think what ALO may on Newey’s car.

      He assimilated him to Jobs on intelligence.

      1. @nickelcobalt

        Mark was fighting for the title thanks to Vettel losing well over 70 points due to mechanical problems (and more from stupid mistakes). Problems Webber didn’t have.
        Bahrein 1st to 4th because of engine failure. -13 points
        Australia, suspension failure while leading. -25 points.
        Spanish Grand Prix, brake failure. -3 points.
        British Grand Prix, first lap first corner puncture. 7th in stead of (at least) 2nd. -9 points
        Korean Grand Prix, engine failure while leading. -25 points.

        Compared to Webber’s problems;
        Hit by Vettel in Turkeye while leading. -10 points.

        That’s a 65 points car disadvantage for Vettel. 2011 showed us how 2010 would have been if Vettel hadn’t had any problems or mistakes.

  13. Even when Webber or Horner say the contrary, the race won’t risk the chance of Vettel to get a biggest gap against Alonso. BTW, surprising (for me) to see the McLarens back on form (at least a little), so they could play a keyrole in the championshp this time. Races ago (when Alonso was on top) it was believed that Hamilton could win a race and affect Vettel’s chances. Now the RedBull are stronger and any podium by McL is only going to affect Alonso.
    Unless there’s a Turkey 2010, a Valencia 2012 or a Singapore 2008 (Massa is not Piquet Jr, fortunatelly), I don’t see how Alonso could win this one.

  14. For the last three races, it seems Alonso is fighting his team mate.
    Start there Fred and that title could be yours ;)

    1. so if he beats Massa he will win the WDC? That is really good logic!

  15. You got love the way Newey drive the car. he can win without driving….just amazing…Definitely Newey is the most complete driver in the grid.

  16. Quite different views actually. MW and SV answered to a question of ‘how do you explain the dominance?’ – implicitly, either the car or the driver – with “The drivers”. LOL.
    Alonso is belittling the Red Bull drivers then, by saying he is competing against Mr. Newey. Who’s right? Who knows? But except some Vet fans, I think Alonso’s specific reference of Newey resonates general grasp of most others on the current situation.

    1. Yet Mclaren have been ahead of Mclaren for most of this season, and ahead of Red Bull for much of this season as well. Alonso should also have been saying “We’re fighting Paddy Lowe, as well as Lewis”, but in his mind, he’d be belittling himself, given the events of 2007 if he said that. He only remembers the car when Vettel is beating him, and alternators aren’t failing.

      1. The RB8 was never slower than the Ferrari at any stage of the season, Alonso’s 3 victory were due to extraordinary circumstances (good strategy,wet skills,……) he is saying that because the RB8 is miles ahead of the competition

        He only remembers the car when Vettel is beating him, and alternators aren’t failing

        At least he remebered the car not like Christian Horner & Helmut Marko when they were saying in public that Alonso should have a DNF

        1. The RB8 was never slower than the Ferrari at any stage of the season, Alonso’s 3 victory were due to extraordinary circumstances (good strategy,wet skills,……) he is saying that because the RB8 is miles ahead of the competition

          Red Bull were clearly slower than Ferrari in Spain and Italy, but I’ll accept that Ferrari haven’t been consistently faster than RB this season.

          Red Bull have been fastest for the last few races, but people assume a car is “miles ahead” of the competition, only when it’s Red Bull. Just 3-4 races ago, Mclaren were reeling several consecutive poles and wins, just as they often threatened to do at the beginning of the season, when they locked out the front row in Australia and Malaysia. Yet the “miles ahead” comments were nowhere.

          1. Red Bull were clearly slower than Ferrari in Spain and Italy,

            Red Bull had a good car in Spain but both drivers did a poor job in qualifying and were stuck behind slower cars throughout most of the race.

            I can’t argue Monza though.

          2. @kingshark

            Wrong, Red Bull suffered the same problem Ferrari did at that stage. Less competitive qualifying pace than race pace. The difference, however, is that Alonso qualified 3rd while Vettel and Webber qualified 7th and 11th. A clear car advantage for Ferrari.

  17. I wonder then if Alonso won’t change his mind to drive for Ferrari for the rest of his carreer. He could get a seat in Red Bull maybe 3-4 years ago but he declined. He always emphasize that Ferrari is the best team, but I’m not sure about that, because aren’t the best team since Ross Brawn’s and Jean Todt’s departure. If he wants to drive the best car, he should go elswhere, because Ferrari aren’t looking to be able to esatblish themselves as the best team anytime soon.

  18. You are fighting against Newey…… but you are losing from Vettel ……and from Webber … and Button …. and Hamilton ….. and Massa if they let him.
    I am so sick about this opinions , as if the RB’s are driven by them self or if Newey drive’s them with a remote control from the pits… devaluing a first class driver as Vettel is.
    To those sharing this opinion , i suggest watching the onboard video’s from Vettels pol lap’s throughout this season specialy looking at his gearing.
    And the more annoying think is that for the bigger part of this season it was the mclaren the faster car… not the RB. RB’s are the fastest car’s in the last 4 races. So why dont’ Alonso fight whith Whitmarsh too?

    1. How about watching the onboard video’s from Alonso’s car on the wet this season

      1. How about you start watching more than one driver so you can actually try to compare them?

      2. @tifoso1989

        Many people have. That is why many people believe the Ferrari is the best car in wet conditions this year.

    2. The fact that both Webber and Vettel are dominating the last GPs goes to show the big performance gap between the RedBull and the other cars on the grid. Vettel could be a great driver, but this year he was beaten by Webber on several occasions and, when he had the slower car, he wasn’t able to produce those incredible performances that are expected of great drivers.

      1. @alexx_88

        The fact that both Webber and Vettel are dominating the last GPs goes to show the big performance gap between the RedBull and the other cars on the grid.

        Yet nobody exaggerated Mclaren’s margin over the field when their cars were doing the same only a few races ago.

        Vettel could be a great driver, but this year he was beaten by Webber on several occasions and, when he had the slower car, he wasn’t able to produce those incredible performances that are expected of great drivers.

        How many races has Webber beaten Vettel though? Silverstone, Monaco and China? Three races in sixteen, plus the time when Narain’s front wing hit Seb’s tyre? People always say “Webber beat him a few times”, but a few times doesn’t prove a damn thing.

        How about Australia and Belgium, when he fought through to take 2nd? Or his win in Bahrain, holding off the 2 Lotuses?

        1. @david-a

          The point I was trying to make is that, since both drivers are rising above the competition, with Webber, by common acceptance, not being one of the strongest on the grid, the car must be a pretty determinant factor here.

          Yet nobody exaggerated Mclaren’s margin over the field when their cars were doing the same only a few races ago.

          Yeah, because they weren’t killing the show, as RedBull are doing now. Technical failures, indecently bad pit-stops and other issues like that prevented McLaren from getting into a position to dominate the field.

          1. @alexx_88

            Yeah, because they weren’t killing the show, as RedBull are doing now. Technical failures, indecently bad pit-stops and other issues like that prevented McLaren from getting into a position to dominate the field.

            You misunderstood. I referred to a few races ago, where in Italy and Hungary, Hamilton dominated the race. In Belgium, Button dominated the race. All without any pitstop errors affecting the winning car in those races (Button did have a technical issue in Italy, when 2nd). Yet no-one complained to this extent.

            The point I was trying to make is that, since both drivers are rising above the competition, with Webber, by common acceptance, not being one of the strongest on the grid, the car must be a pretty determinant factor here.

            And by common acceptance, Button isn’t necessarily so much stronger than Webber. He won races and was at the front with Hamilton at times this season too.

        2. Mark was ahead of him in the WDC until Hungary & beat him 7 times in what so called “Vettel’s Territory” ==>Qualifying

          1. @tifoso1989

            Which is Webber territory as well….

            Still. Even though Webber out-qualified Vettel 7 times he only managed to beat Vettel 3 times in the race.

          2. @tifoso1989 – But he’s 60+ points down now. The title isn’t handed out after Hungary.

  19. I think that they are fighting against themselves.
    Alonso said that they couldn’t match Newey.. well it seems that today they weren’t able to match Mclaren.
    They have to improve the car. If they can’t it’s not Newey’s fault.

  20. Oh, Alonso. There are only two things he say to the press these days.

    1. Hamilton is the best the driver in Formula One, and by saying that, he implies he is also the best (read: 2007).
    2. Vettel is terrible and it’s all car.

    1. yes and he is right.

      1. I think we have a comedian in the house.

        1. maybe a comedian…but for sure not a liar…

          1. Considering that it is so comical, it isn’t the truth, therefore it is a lie :)

  21. Isn’t the point Alonso is making that it’s not Vettel only who is ahead in performance but both RBR drivers so that the car is clearly an advantage and the car’s primary designer is Newey. I don’t see this as a slight to Vettel.

  22. I think Fernando is really psychologically deflecting his being beaten by the car and designer rather than a driver, which is perfectly understandable. None of the top drivers would readily admit, ever, that another driver is better than them.

    Button probably accepts Lewis is a bit faster over one lap, but feels he’s a better driver in the race, Lewis feels he’s the best qualifier and any issues in the race are the fault of the team or other drivers, Mark feels he’s being given number 2 status so doesn’t have a fair playing field and his starts are compromised because of “clutch” issues rather than himself, Massa probably feels circumstances and the team and the way the car is being developed are the reasons he’s behind Alonso, and so on for all the drivers.

    What Fernando’s not pointing out is that McLaren doesn’t have a Newey, and they have a better car than Ferrari and Lewis should probably be in the thick of things or leading the championship except for team mistakes and reliability issues and other drivers (Maldonado, Grojean) taking him out of point scoring opportunities.

    And so it goes…

    1. Mclaren is beatable. Alonso will finish ahead of both Ham and But, but that’s not the point…he need to finish ahead of Newey…and to finish ahead of Newey you need to beat his design…Only Luck can give Alonso the championship and only unluck can take form Vettel the championship

  23. Yes Alonso. Just like how other drivers fought Colin Chapman, Gordon Murray, Rory Bryne and an unnoticed Bob Bell

  24. Is this ferrari’s way to massage Alonso for a new ‘number two’ driver – Vettel? Put it into his head enough – it’s the car Fernando, Vettel’s just average – and maybe he won’t be bothered when Vettel arrives in maranello in 2015.

  25. It’s just goes to show how important of a role he plays still. Many none fans will bemoan saying he just draws the car and then the driver does the rest, how wrong they were. The Red Bull at the start wasn’t the worst car, Vettel and Webber won in it and had podiums also, but all this does is highlights the drive, determination and innovation the man can come up with by adding bits to the car which have helped sort out the balance which puts the cars back on the rails they have been on for the past two years.

  26. Hey, I’m only too willing to get incensed at someone I think might be insulting Vettel, but I honestly don’t think that’s what was going on here. I think this statement was just a way of highlighting how much RBR have improved their car in this latter part of the season. I don’t think Alonso was saying “Vettel isn’t a factor” so much as he was saying “The way Newey has improved the car is making RBR that much more difficult to get the best of.”

  27. Clearly Ferrari have got to out-develop Newey in the final races quite spectacularly. So I don’t know what all the cynical comments are about.

    1. The problem is that Newey’s skills are more important that Alonso’s skills …that’s sad but that’s true…that’s why in my opinion Newey is the best driver on the grid… and his biggest rival (Alonso)for the moment just admitted

  28. Alo is just stating the obvious. He’s saying that they are lagging behind in terms of car development. The fact that red bull locked out the front row in the past 3 races indicates big performance gap from other teams.

    1. Yeah, looking at it, I agree. He said “we (Scuderia Ferrari with lead driver Alonso)” are not fighting Seb “only”. I.e. Fernando and his team are fighting Sebastian and his team. Car+driver always determines results, so fair enough.

  29. I think Fernando just jealous, enough said.

  30. I’m fed up with these mind games. Obviously since Alonso can’t beat Vettel on track he’s trying his hand at mind games now.

    But seriously, this is a team sport. Alonso and Ferrari have always been fighting Vettel and Red Bull this year. Why is it suddenly just Newey? He’s been with the team all along.

    Alonso is a good driver no doubt. But this really shows that without a good car a good driver is helpless. Winning a championship is all about a good driver having a good car. Vettel and Red Bull have that. A good driver in an average car (Alonso – Ferrari) and an average driver in a good car (Webber – Red Bull) will struggle.

    To all the people saying Vettel can’t win without a good car – well Alonso can’t seem to win without a good car too. To win a championship you need a good car, as well as a good driver.

  31. Love the menacing picture of Newey :D

    As much as Alonso makes a good point his fight is only against Vettel. Vettel has to drive the RB8 and provide feedback good enough to develop a dominant car. You could not just simply parachute in another driver.

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