FIA confirms Vettel’s pass on Vergne was legal

2012 Brazilian Grand Prix

Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, Interlagos, 2012The FIA has confirmed Sebastian Vettel did not break the rules concerning overtaking under yellow flags when passing Jean-Eric Vergne during the Brazilian Grand Prix.

Ferrari confirmed they sent the FIA a letter requesting an investigation into whether Vettel illegally overtook the Toro Rosso on lap four on the Reta Oposta straight.

Yellow flags and lights prohibiting overtaking were visible in the run-up to the pass but a green flag indicating drivers could overtake was difficult to see

FIA race director Charlie Whiting told Auto Motor und Sport Vettel had passed a green flag before completing the move. The FIA later confirmed to Autosport the pass was legal.

Had Vettel been retroactively punished for the move, a penalty could have lost him the world championship to Fernando Alonso.

See this forum thread for earlier discussion of the incident.

2012 Brazilian Grand Prix

Browse all 2012 Brazilian Grand Prix articles

Image ?? Red Bull/Getty images

Advert | Go Ad-free

242 comments on FIA confirms Vettel’s pass on Vergne was legal

  1. raymondu999 (@raymondu999) said on 29th November 2012, 12:28

    So apparently, with this avenue closed off, Ferrari are already looking at another possible protest.

  2. celeste (@celeste) said on 29th November 2012, 12:29

    First thank you for this site Keith it was a voice of reason during this hold deacle… Now, THANK YOU JESUS!

    Can we move on… I actually like to get some work done instead of checking the internet in the wait for bads news…

  3. I didn’t want to see this get decided after the race either – that’s just annoying.

    What I didn’t like about that race was the amount of assistance Vettel got. I’m OK with team orders – Massa was fantastic in that race and it added to the excitement and tactics. What I don’t like is Toro Rosso cars getting out of the way – I’m sorry but ACROSS teams they should be racing no matter who they are. Then Schumi getting out of the way? It’s not good for the fans.

    Effectively Vettel only had half a field to fight. Marussia, HRT and Caterham were no fuss and wouldn’t fight (fair enough), then he had the two Toro Rosso jumping out of his way (ridiculous) and Schumacher (incredibly ridiculous) and Webber as a backup… That’s a full 10 cars that he could drive passed if he needed to and 4 team mates (Torro Rossos Schumi and Webber) – There was never really a risk in this race! Actually Webber was probably the least helpful of the lot!

    I think that they should look long and hard at how to manage cross team assistance, though there may not be much they can do… It’s not good for the sport.

    • petebaldwin (@petebaldwin) said on 29th November 2012, 13:15

      All you can do is to force the sale of Toro Rosso. As long as they are owned by the same guy, Toro Rosso will be told not to mess things up.

      IMO, Toro Rosso should exist in GP2 as opposed to F1 and, there should be rules dictating that you can only be financially involved with one team. Teams could have their junior teams in GP2 and it would add to the excitement in that formula as well.

      As it stands, no rules can stop Toro Rosso making it easy for Red Bull because the guy making the decisions isn’t going to hold up his own team.

      • brny666 said on 29th November 2012, 15:17

        Well if rumours are true than TR has been on sale for quite a while but nobody was/is interested. You really can’t blame Red Bull for not closing it down and putting X number of people out of a job.

  4. Racing fan said on 29th November 2012, 12:38

    I don’t understand why there are so many haters of the way Redbull win their titles. The rules are designed to be stretched and searched… How else is a team going to gain an advantage? I’m not a massive vetted fan although he was the driver of the year, he always qualified towards the top. Alonso was unlucky but that’s what happens when you qualify in the middle of the pack.

    • James (@goodyear92) said on 29th November 2012, 12:59

      Vettel didn’t always qualify near the top (Malaysia, China etc.), in fact there is just one driver that can claim that accolade and it’s Hamilton, with the best qualifying record of anyone this season and almost always being on the front row. Also, neither does Vettel’s qualifying performance being better than Alonso’s mean anything, given the relative difference between the cars both were driving over the year. Personally, I feel it’s difficult to pick a driver of the year, but I don’t think it should be Vettel, given his struggles with a car that wasn’t to his liking. He even admitted himself that he couldn’t cope without the devices that were put on it later in the season to improve rear stability, because he couldn’t do his tricks with it. Whereas, Alonso coped with a car that had almost zero rear stability and was thrashing Vettel in the championshim before Red Bull’s improvements. Also Hamilton, who, after such a calamitous 2011, barely made a single mistake – the single notable one being his choice of rear wing in Spa. Vettel, though, made a number of costly mistakes (Spain and Germany, to name a few). So, in my opinion, driver of the year is between those two and I couldn’t choose between them. Vettel doesn’t deserve it just because he almost always qualified ahead of Alonso.

      • petebaldwin (@petebaldwin) said on 29th November 2012, 13:17

        But the issue there is that Vettel has found a style that allows him to completely batter the rest of the field. He is the lead Red Bull driver and he can get them to design a car that suits him perfectly. Alonso is the lead Ferrari driver but if anything, it got worse for him as the season went on….

      • Funny how Vettel struggling with the RBR early in the season is all Vettel’s fault, not the car’s, while Alonso’s struggling is always the car, never Fernando’s fault. Not even when he was unable to match Massa’s pace in the last couple qualys.

      • You can’t really blame Vettel for not having a very quick car originally in qualifying (as Alonso had throughout the season). The instability didn’t suit his driving style of having compete faith in the car so he has the confidence to brake as late as possible and accelerate as early as possible.

    • Brace (@brace) said on 29th November 2012, 19:08

      @Racing fan @goodyear92 @petebaldwin

      You need to remember that Alonso was not only screwed by Kimi spinning off in Suzuka (fair play, that’s part of the sport and it was Ferrari’s own choice to leave their only hot lap for the final minutes), but Vettel then messed up his lap by pretty much being on the racing line as Alonso was reaching final chicane. I’m sure Vettel’s engineer knew all to well where Alonso was, so why didn’t he just tell him to pick up the pace a bit, since pit entry is just behind the chicane. It’s not like he had to push for the whole lap to get out of his way. That’s poor sportsmanship from Vettel and is not his only example of bad sportsmanship this year. It’s too many things like this that make me feel like he really should be thankful for this title since there are 2 or 3 drivers who did much better job then him over the season, while also being much better drivers in terms of racing ethics.

      I really don’t remember other drivers complaining of Alonso or Kimi, or even Hamilton for overtaking outside of the track, blocking in quali or pushing people off the track as Vettel is so ofter trying to do.

      • David-A (@david-a) said on 29th November 2012, 19:38

        @brace You can keep saying it, but Vettel never tried to block in qualifying. He moved out of the way before Alonso approached. And even if you think someone did a better job, “much better” would be an unreasonable claim.

  5. JoeLegs11 said on 29th November 2012, 12:49

    Its unbelieveable, the amount of people trying to console themselves because Vettel won the championship, shocking.

    Fact is, there was no case to answer, for any infringement, which is probably why Ferrari didnt protest immediately. Ferrari have been arguably the strongest team over the course of the season, being reliable, efficient, and (for the most part) admirable. Why they had to make themselves look like fools (for not protesting immediately after knowing of the situation, and playing with their fans hopes), and prove Horners point about the animosity directed towards red bull for their success is beyond me.

    Right now, Ferrari should/will be moving on from this crapstorm that never was, and getting everyones focus inside the team on developing their 2013 challenger.

    Ferrari lost fair and square… Get over it, I’m sure Vettel has ;D

    • Oletros (@oletros) said on 29th November 2012, 13:58

      UI think that Ferrari has sent the letter to the FIA because of the Spanish media pressure. They were saying that Ferrari was coward but not doing it

      • JoeLegs11 said on 29th November 2012, 14:20

        tell me then, why they didnt explain to their fans the reasoning? do you really think that ferrari didnt know??? of course they knew what happened thats why they didnt care to complain about it initially. Ferrari is a group of highly inteligent people working as a team, and if you think that individuals on the internet, or the press, or even the broadcasting channels are more well informed and superior in their knowledge, then you sir, are a fool. Ferrari were just giving false hope to all the tifosi…

        • Oletros (@oletros) said on 29th November 2012, 15:00

          I know that they knew that there was nothing wrong since the beginning.

          But the snowball has grown out of proportions and thay had to make that letter to safe face with their tifosi

  6. petebaldwin (@petebaldwin) said on 29th November 2012, 13:10

    Why did it take a week for the FIA to decide this? It should have been very simple and should have been put under investigation and cleared during the race.

    This should have been done before the chequered flag waved.

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 29th November 2012, 13:18

      Leaving aside the fact that four days is not a week, all we’re talking about is a driver making a legal move under green flag conditions. Ferrari decided they wanted to check it under the rules, but as far as the FIA are concerned there’s no transgression: “no case to answer”.

      If I say “Vettel broke a rule by not dancing the Charleston on the pit wall after winning the championship” and the FIA point out the rules don’t require him to, it would be rather silly for me to complain that the FIA took four days to investigate Vettel’s failure to comply with non-existent dancing regulations.

  7. Baron (@baron) said on 29th November 2012, 14:00

    OK, before I disappear for the winter, can someone explain to me, given that from the video that was posted (now removed from YouTube by FOM) the “green flag” is impossible to see because of the spray, the “Flag” warning lights were clearly visible in Vettels display plus the word “Flag” and in the distance you can see a flashing yellow?

    I’m not trying to be obtuse, I just want to understand why the discrepancy. Please be gentle so I can sleep during the off season.. :)

    Perhaps PM can explain it – haven’t had time to read everything. Thanks.

    • Oletros (@oletros) said on 29th November 2012, 14:08

      Stering wheel lights are sinchronyzed with the light poles, the green flag was a manual one so until they didn’t arrived to the light pole the lights in the steering wheel didn’t changed

  8. Brace (@brace) said on 29th November 2012, 14:35

    Let’s not be kidding ourselves here, people.
    Just like in 2007, there was obvious breaking of the rules, but FIA nor anyone else in F1, wants to have this sort of mess after the last race.
    If it had been any other race Vettel would have been give 20sec and that would be it. No drama or anything.
    What leaves a bit of a bad taste when Red Bull wins is their whole attitude of making something illegal or at best, very shady that obviously won’t fly, and then wait for FIA to discover it, knowing their results will stand because FIA doesn’t want to spill all the mess into public affairs and media by changing results. That’s why they are always allowed to stand even though they were illegal. All other teams always check with Whiting before they introduce any new parts. Only Red Bull is abusing the fact that FIA probably won’t disqualify them in order to preserve the credibility of the sport.

    • Oletros (@oletros) said on 29th November 2012, 14:41

      What obvious breaking of the rules are you talking about?

    • yellowsapphire (@yellowsapphire) said on 29th November 2012, 14:45

      Really??

      Conspiracy full-steam ahead.

      Videos, and the FIA statement, prove that there was no breaking of the rules by Vettel.

      Let’s make this crystal clear: if it was any other race Vettel still wouldn’t have been given a 20 second penalty because he did nothing wrong. In fact, one could argue if this was any other race, this furore wouldn’t have happened, simply because the stakes wouldn’t be so high.

      RBR haven’t done anything illegal – finding loopholes is part of F1, all teams do it. If you’re arguing that RBR is abusing the spirit of F1, I imagine you’re also arguing that Ferrari are abusing the rules by their breaking of Massa’s gearbox seal. For consistency’s sake, I hope that certainly is what you’re arguing…

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 29th November 2012, 14:58

      @brace

      Let’s not be kidding ourselves here, people.
      Just like in 2007, there was obvious breaking of the rules, but FIA nor anyone else in F1, wants to have this sort of mess after the last race.

      How predictable that someone would choose to ignore the facts of that matter and leap straight to concocting another tedious conspiracy theory.

      The rehashing of tired whinges about Red Bull having the temerity to develop their car are obviously irrelevant in a conversation about driving standards. They indicate this is coming from someone more interested in discrediting Red Bull than discussing the facts.

      Everyone with eyes to see now realises Vettel did not pass Vergne until he was on part of the track covered by green flags. Those who make such ill-informed attempts to diminish Vettel’s achievement are the ones, quite transparently, “kidding themselves”.

      • Brace (@brace) said on 29th November 2012, 15:37

        Keith, please be honest here. If you commence your overtaking move before you are out of yellow flag zone and do complete it in the green flag zone, can it really be said that you lifted off and reduced speed in the yellow flag zone? For example, when Kimi flew off the track in Japan, everyone had to do that part of the track slower then usual.
        How do you justify actually overtaking someone under yellow flags, even if the point of nudging nose in front of other car was technically done after the point of the green flag. Move is technically legal, but what about reducing speed and proceeding with more caution? Aren’t people always penalized for that too?

        • Oletros (@oletros) said on 29th November 2012, 15:43

          How commenced his overtaking in the yellow zone?

        • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 29th November 2012, 16:21

          @brace

          Keith, please be honest here

          I’ll try to be as I always do.

          If you commence your overtaking move before you are out of yellow flag zone and do complete it in the green flag zone, can it really be said that you lifted off and reduced speed in the yellow flag zone?

          I don’t agree Vettel did any significant part of his overtaking move in the yellow flag zone. Quite honestly, I think you’re over-analysing an otherwise unremarkable move in an attempt to find fault with it where none exists.

    • RedBullRacer (@redbullracer) said on 29th November 2012, 15:06

      All other teams always check with Whiting before they introduce any new parts.

      ?????!!!!!!!

      If this were the case then there would never be any dispute about new parts introduced by any team. This is clearly not the case.

      The only instance in the past few years when I can remember a team “checking with Whiting” was when Red Bull queried the loophole that would allow for some sort of double diffuser ahead of the 2009 season. Charlie Whiting said he was doubtful that such a design would be deemed legal, so they chose not to use it. Hence they were not too happy when it turned out that it was deemed legal and the three teams who had employed the device – and one in particular – had gained quite an advantage in the first few races of the season, leaving the other teams to play catch-up.

      As has been pointed out countless times already, it is the job of the designers to interpret the regulations and push the boundaries while remaining with the legal limits of the rules. Any designer who is not doing this is not very good at their job. To suggest that Red Bull are the only team intelligent enough to use the regulations to their advantage is an insult to every other team in the paddock.

    • In 2009 Brawn GP found a loophole with the diffuser rules and gained a very good advantage in the first 8 to 10 races. Does that mean that Button/Brawn GP should be stripped of the championship achievements ? More over it is FIA’s role to setup the rules with as much clarity as possible . It is the team and the brilliant designers duty to stretch them to the the limit. We are talking about 0.02 second advantages. You cannot win if you don not stretch to the limit here.

  9. Shimks (@shimks) said on 29th November 2012, 15:51

    I was just reading another of Prisoner Monkey’s comments and I suddendly thought to myself, I haven’t cooked coq au vin for ages. Must do that dish again soon.

  10. david d.m. said on 29th November 2012, 16:32

    I wonder what Vettel has to say about all this, did he really see the flag or was he very very lucky? someone should ask him that question when he retires.

    • MazdaChris (@mazdachris) said on 29th November 2012, 16:53

      I doubt he would have overtaken another car if he thought that he was in a yellow flag zone

    • Brace (@brace) said on 29th November 2012, 16:58

      Vettel is not known for being a honest person. He is one of those, all smiles on the outside, but all completely opposite on the inside.

      Remember when before going to the podium in Hockenheim Jenson told him that he thinks his overtaking maneuver wasn’t fair, cameras and microphone caught that, we all heard it.

      Then, few minutes later, when Lauda confronted Vettel, aksing him about that move and if Jenson has a problem with it, he said that Jenson didn’t complain to him about it! That’s just blunt lying! And lying a guy in the face and all the people who were watching that.

      At 1:35 you can hear them talking about it and Jenson saying to Vettel that he overtook him outside of the track.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrISRuu4Ljg

      • Styxbe (@styxbe) said on 29th November 2012, 18:20

        Sigh.. is that the best you can come up with after your comments above were dismissed ? Seriously, what will be next ?

      • Churaragi said on 29th November 2012, 18:37

        Vettel is not known for being a honest person. He is one of those, all smiles on the outside, but all completely opposite on the inside.

        You seem to be quite new around athletes, let me give you a hint, they lie and they will do so if that is what is best for PR.

        Your accusation is not only preposterous, I mean do you know Vettel personally to know how much he lies in person vs the public, it is also quite mild. It is the same as saying parents are damn liars because they tell children Santa Claus exist. Well duh.

        If you realy think drivers are 100% honest when they give interviews, oh well not more that can be said realy…

        Newsflash: People are hardly going to be honest in front of the press, specialy in live interviews, specialy athletes, specialy in circumstances where what they say can and will be used for good and bad PR.

      • @brace Well, that doesn’t make him a driver who deliberately breaks the rules, does it?

      • AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner) said on 30th November 2012, 13:23

        @brace So what? That doesn’t make someone a compulsive liar…it makes them a competitive sportsman!

  11. iAbuser (@iabuser) said on 29th November 2012, 17:10

    Very short and sweet… *********!
    Its as clear as day that it was not a legal overtake, the light were on on dashboard, you can see the green flag point while hes along side…

    This is up there with the Prost and Senna conflict!
    http://hittingtheapex.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/senna-prost.jpg

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 29th November 2012, 17:26

      It really isn’t.

      On one hand you’ve got a guy deliberately ramming into his team mate to win a world championship.

      On the other hand we’ve got a group of embittered Vettel-haters who are having a hard time accepting what the FIA is telling them, which is that the flag at the beginning of the marshal zone takes precedence over the lights on Vettel’s dashboard.

      • thorpedo (@thorpedo) said on 29th November 2012, 18:41

        I am sure that most of the comments above would be completely different if it was McLaren fighting for WDC and not Ferrari. Please be more objective. I really think RBR should get a lesson for their behaviour this year. Just try to imagine… next year it may be Button fighting for the title. And if they (RBR) win again the same way they just did? RBR and especially Vettel can do whatever they want.

        I wont even start to talk about their illegal car parts. I will instead refresh your memory. Someone said that RBR dont use team orders and that they treat both drivers the same. Apparently you dont remember Silverstone 2011 (Mark, keep the distance) and Silverstone one year before (remember the front wings). There were even more examples where Mark was told to let Seb past. And dont say that Ferrari would lose reputation if they object against yellow flag overtaking. I can recall Valencia this year when Helmut was really upset with MSC for having his DRS activated in the yellow flag zone even though he evidently lifted off (and Mark didnt). I think its nothing bad about the case being commented by the users since “we” all love to talk about Adelaide 1994 and Jerez 1997 (for which MSC received one of the harshest penalties), just to name the few.

        And the last to mention is Vettels behaviour. Doesnt he see that he has a privileged status in RBR?! Horner made it very clear with his accusation of Webber in Istanbul 2010. So, to sum things up… Illegal car, 4 (and maybe even some more) cars on the grid, N1 driver, team radio complaints, team orders for STR (also in Brazil)… yeah those are all so called “dirty tricks”!

        • Robbie (@robbie) said on 29th November 2012, 20:38

          “for which MSC received one of the harshest penalties”

          What penalty was that?

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 29th November 2012, 21:40

          There were even more examples where Mark was told to let Seb past.

          Red Bull have only done this in scenarios where Mark Webber has been out of contention for the championship this year. Any team, no matter how within the rules their fans may argue, would have done the same. Vettel has never found himself out of contention for a championship that Webber was still capable of winning. The same can’t be said the other way around.

          The only two times before the end of the season where Red Bull used team orders were Silverstone 2011 (where Vettel was 2nd with a malfunctioning KERS, and a bad pitstop cost him the lead, but Webber chose to chase down Vettel anyway), and Turkey 2009, where significantly, the team told Vettel not to challenge Mark Webber.

          Silverstone one year before (remember the front wings).

          Horner said this was based on driver feedback. Mark felt more comfortable with the older spec wing. Vettel’s wing broke through no fault of his own, but he preferred the new wing spec. What else did you expect the team to do?

          Doesnt he see that he has a privileged status in RBR?! Horner made it very clear with his accusation of Webber in Istanbul 2010. So, to sum things up… Illegal car, 4 (and maybe even some more) cars on the grid, N1 driver, team radio complaints, team orders for STR (also in Brazil)… yeah those are all so called “dirty tricks”!

          Their car was not found to be illegal.

          If you’re referring to Schumacher moving over for the guy described by the media as the “baby Schumacher”, take that up with MSC, not Vettel.

          Vettel has proven himself the number one driver over a respected, experienced driver who was with the team since 2007. Vettel was still on the STR ladder at that time, with any underperformance being punsihed by RBR with the same fate as Speed, Liuzzi, Alguersuari, etc.

          Radio complaints? Why level that accusation against Vettel, and not the likes of Button (Korea), or Alonso (Bahrain)?

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 29th November 2012, 21:43

          There were even more examples where Mark was told to let Seb past.

          Red Bull have only done this in scenarios where Mark Webber has been out of contention for the championship this year. Any team, no matter how within the rules their fans may argue, would have done the same. Vettel has never found himself out of contention for a championship that Webber was still capable of winning. The same can’t be said the other way around.

          The only two times before the end of the season where Red Bull used team orders were Silverstone 2011 (where Vettel was 2nd with a malfunctioning KERS, and a bad pitstop cost him the lead, but Webber chose to chase down Vettel anyway), and Turkey 2009, where significantly, the team told Vettel not to challenge Mark Webber.

          Silverstone one year before (remember the front wings).

          Horner said this was based on driver feedback. Mark felt more comfortable with the older spec wing. Vettel’s wing broke through no fault of his own, but he preferred the new wing spec. What else did you expect the team to do?

          Doesnt he see that he has a privileged status in RBR?! Horner made it very clear with his accusation of Webber in Istanbul 2010. So, to sum things up… Illegal car, 4 (and maybe even some more) cars on the grid, N1 driver, team radio complaints, team orders for STR (also in Brazil)… yeah those are all so called “dirty tricks”!

          Their car was not found to be illegal.

          If you’re referring to Schumacher moving over for the guy described by the media as the “baby Schumacher”, take that up with MSC, not Vettel.

          Vettel has proven himself the number one driver over a respected, experienced driver who was with the team since 2007. Vettel was still on the STR ladder at that time, with any underperformance being punsihed by RBR with the same fate as Speed, Liuzzi, Alguersuari, etc.

          Radio complaints? Why level that accusation against Vettel, and not the likes of Button (Korea), or Alonso (Bahrain)?

          • thorpedo (@thorpedo) said on 30th November 2012, 10:15

            The only two times before the end of the season where Red Bull used team orders were Silverstone 2011 (where Vettel was 2nd with a malfunctioning KERS, and a bad pitstop cost him the lead, but Webber chose to chase down Vettel anyway), and Turkey 2009, where significantly, the team told Vettel not to challenge Mark Webber.

            So, those are TEAM ORDERS, arent they?

            Horner said this was based on driver feedback. Mark felt more comfortable with the older spec wing. Vettel’s wing broke through no fault of his own, but he preferred the new wing spec. What else did you expect the team to do?

            I strongly advise you not to believe everything Horner says. After all Mark didnt seem too happy at the press conference after the session (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smW9yo-P_zk), nor did he on the team radio after the race.

            Radio complaints? Why level that accusation against Vettel, and not the likes of Button (Korea), or Alonso (Bahrain)?

            It is about number of complaints. I agree that most of the drivers made complaints, but the number of Vettels is way beyond everybody else. He seems to be crying if a fly crashes onto his visor (joke, but not far from reality though).

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 1st December 2012, 8:16

            @thorpedo

            So, those are TEAM ORDERS, arent they?

            Yes, one that favoured Vettel, and one that favoured Mark Webber. Otherwise they have been allowed to race until one is out of contention for the championship.

            I strongly advise you not to believe everything Horner says. After all Mark didnt seem too happy at the press conference after the session, nor did he on the team radio after the race.

            He had lost pole position, having let go of a component he could have used, but chose not to. Of course he’d regret it.

            It is about number of complaints. I agree that most of the drivers made complaints, but the number of Vettels is way beyond everybody else. He seems to be crying if a fly crashes onto his visor (joke, but not far from reality though).

            What “number of complaints” did he make, that is so much greater than everyone else’s?

          • thorpedo (@thorpedo) said on 1st December 2012, 9:22

            Yes, one that favoured Vettel, and one that favoured Mark Webber.

            One??? You cannot be serious!

            He had lost pole position, having let go of a component he could have used, but chose not to. Of course he’d regret it.

            Of course, Horner treats him so well. Stop being so naive!

            What “number of complaints” did he make, that is so much greater than everyone else’s?

            You are probably watching races on mute (if at all). Try to raise the volume!

            Really, I mean, he is always complaining about something. Whenever he is being overtaken or someone doesnt let him pass immediately, he complains. Remember Austin?

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 1st December 2012, 10:14

            @thorpedo

            One??? You cannot be serious!

            I already stated that all other cases of TO were when one driver was clearly out of championship contention. So, yes, Silverstone 2011 and Istanbul 2009 were the only team orders used away from the end of the season.

            Of course, Horner treats him so well. Stop being so naive!

            If the team treats him so badly, as you believe, then Webber is the naive one, for signing with them every year. He’s even worked with Horner for longer than Vettel has.

            You are probably watching races on mute (if at all). Try to raise the volume!

            Really, I mean, he is always complaining about something. Whenever he is being overtaken or someone doesnt let him pass immediately, he complains. Remember Austin?

            That is only your opinion. I have heard other drivers than Vettel vent their frustration over the radio. So what if Vettel does it as well?

          • thorpedo (@thorpedo) said on 1st December 2012, 13:07

            I already stated that all other cases of TO were when one driver was clearly out of championship contention.

            Exactly! So why was Horner so offensive against Ferrari at Hockenheim 2010, when he is doing exactly the same thing? Not just Horner… a lot of people complain about TO at Ferrari and dont see what RBR is doing. And dont assume that team orders are only the ones heard on the team radio.

            If the team treats him so badly, as you believe, then Webber is the naive one, for signing with them every year.

            There is a very simple explanation. He knows he has a “spaceship” to drive while the other teams… It is the same reason why Barrichello was staying with Ferrari. Webber was better than Vettel in the first half of the season until Vettel started to trash his car as it didnt suit driving style. After the summer break we all know what happened.

            I have heard other drivers than Vettel vent their frustration over the radio. So what if Vettel does it as well?

            Of course they are all doing it. But there is a difference if someone complains 3 times and the other one 10 times, isnt it?

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 1st December 2012, 18:03

            @thorpedo

            There is a very simple explanation. He knows he has a “spaceship” to drive while the other teams… It is the same reason why Barrichello was staying with Ferrari. Webber was better than Vettel in the first half of the season until Vettel started to trash his car as it didnt suit driving style. After the summer break we all know what happened.

            Webber wasn’t better than Vettel in the first half of the season- he might have been close at times, but he could only beat Vettel in 3 races- Monaco, Britain, China. That didn’t make him better in the majority of races where Vettel was ahead. And if Mark is supposed to have built his image on being outspoken and honest, he simply wouldn’t stay if he was treated badly. He’s been beaten by Vettel since 2009, because he isn’t as good for the vast majority of the time.

            Of course they are all doing it. But there is a difference if someone complains 3 times and the other one 10 times, isnt it?

            Maybe we shouldn’t assume the only complaints are the ones heard on the team radio, as you are insistent on with the team orders. We can’t be so sure that Vettel complains so much more than the other drivers.

        • Bob (@bobthevulcan) said on 30th November 2012, 6:53

          Illegal car

          The RB8 was always allowed to race after the requisite FIA inspections. Its controversial components, like the slots in the floor and exhaust blowing, were only banned after the race. Thus, at no point in the season was the car ever “illegal”.

          • thorpedo (@thorpedo) said on 30th November 2012, 10:26

            Indeed it was allowed, but try to look at it from another perspective. Do you support doping in sports? I strongly doubt you do! However those are just “loopholes” and “rules stretching” to achieve a result. So, why are they taking all the awards from Lance. Instead they should congratulate him for finding a loophole at the time of his active career, just like the majority of people do congratulate Adrian Newey.

            What bothers me even more is the enthusiasm of RBR to prove that MAMGs double DRS was illegal when they have a number of suspicious parts fitted on their cars. You know, as the saying goes… “first clean your own doormat”.

      • @keithcollantine , you are the voice of reason in a world of conspiracy theories and hatred, and for it I thank you!

  12. Malibu_GP said on 29th November 2012, 17:44

    Ha! Let it go People.

  13. Styxbe (@styxbe) said on 29th November 2012, 18:29

    Must say that I am really happy that Keith, as an “imparcial expert” provides an objective view and dismisses some of these pathetic comments with clear and undeniable answers that would even make sense to an ape. And still there are some that won’t give up…

  14. Randy Torres (@randytorres) said on 29th November 2012, 18:40

    There is no such official confirmation posted on the FIA web site. By right, Ferrari, or any other team for that matter, have until November 30th to file a protest and if filed the FIA by obligation must review the evidence and issue its findings and conclusions. If the protest is filed, once the evidence is reviewed carefully by experts (and not all manner of race fans with a sporting interest on one driver or the other) and the FIA issues its official ruling, then and only then will Vettel’s pass be considered legal. Anything else is, for the most part, rampant ignorant fanaticism.

    • crr917 (@crr917) said on 29th November 2012, 20:07

      LOL you got it the other way around – Vettel pass is considered legal since no action have been taken by FIA. The rampant ignorant fanaticism comes from you still claiming that it is not legal pass when facts and FIA say otherwise.
      BTW what do you think about 2007 championship?

Add your comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

All comments must abide by the comment policy. Comments may be moderated.
Want to post off-topic? Head to the forum.
See the FAQ for more information.