The FIA has moved the date of the German Grand Prix forward by a week to create space on the 2013 F1 calendar for a new European event.
The 2013 German Grand Prix will take place on July 7th, one week after the British Grand Prix and the same weekend as the Goodwood Festival of Speed.
A meeting of the World Motor Sport Council at Istanbul in Turkey confirmed a space has been left on the calendar for another race in Europe on July 21st, one week before the Hungarian Grand Prix.
This is expected to be a return to Istanbul Park for the Turkish Grand Prix. If the extra race goes ahead it will mean the 2013 calendar remains at 20 races as the Jersey Grand Prix is being postponed to 2014.
Paul Ricard and Magny-Cours have also been trying to return to the calendar as the host of the French Grand Prix. Red Bull have also mooted the possibility of holding a race in Austria at the Red Bull Ring (formerly the A1 Ring).
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Felix Hemsted (@demos12)
5th December 2012, 14:37
So, which race is going?
Imre (@f1mre)
5th December 2012, 14:44
Neither. New Jersey is postponed.
I hope they’ll choose Istanbul. That’s a fantastic circuit. Guaranteed excitement in the race.
codesurge (@codesurge)
5th December 2012, 22:07
I’ve also heard that the USGP might move as the current date clashes with a big Texas Longhorns (college football) game being played in Austin – there’s talk of shifting the race date to prevent logistical mayhem from breaking out when two big events hit Austin on the same weekend.
electrolite (@electrolite)
5th December 2012, 14:46
Valencia.
Atticus (@atticus-2)
5th December 2012, 15:14
Oh, nice surprise, I like that track. Although we would have two ‘Turn 8s’ with it… I like the original one in Istanbul more though. The signature corner of Austin is Turn 1 anyway, while Turn 15 and Turn 19 are more characteristic on that track anyway for differing reasons.
George (@george)
5th December 2012, 17:56
I agree, I cant even remember where that turn is in Austin.
DaveF1 (@davef1)
5th December 2012, 15:22
A French GP needs to be on the calendar, I’m not a big fan of Magny-Cours so I hope they give Paul Ricard a go.
gwenouille (@gwenouille)
5th December 2012, 15:24
I’d be happy with a A1-ring revival ! I liked that little austrian circuit !
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
5th December 2012, 15:52
@gwenouille It could turn out to be quite ironic as the Red Bull Ring is not what you might think of as a ‘Red Bull circuit’ – it’s more of a power over downforce track. Although they’d like the third sector.
It’s not a bad track, I’d like it a lot more if it weren’t such a pale shadow of the original.
gwenouille (@gwenouille)
5th December 2012, 16:08
Yes, I guess you are right about it not being a “Red Bull track”.
I like the scenery in fact: Styria is a wonderful, wonderful region and the circuit has such a nice background. It reminds me of Spa.
I don’t recall the circuit’s original incarnation, only the reduced version. Wasn’t it H.Tilke there too ?
I think it is too short though, I like longer circuits with less blue flags…
raymondu999 (@raymondu999)
5th December 2012, 16:09
@keithcollantine if they did race at the A1/Red Bull Ring – which layout would they use?
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
5th December 2012, 16:12
@raymondu999 It hasn’t been changed significantly since last time and I don’t think there are any other usable options besides the previous one.
Lin1876 (@lin1876)
5th December 2012, 16:22
I remember Red Bull proposed a major extension, but that hasn’t come to much. The track’s good enough on its own merits though, it’ll be nice to have something different though, as the Red Bull Ring has such a short lap.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
5th December 2012, 22:51
@lin1876 – I don’t think it was Red Bull who proposed those extensions.
From what I understand, Formula 1 left the A1 Ring because the drivers were threatening to do lap times in under a minute. The series had outgrown the circuit. In a bid to get Formula 1 back to Austria, the then-owners decided to upgrade and extend the circuit, using parts of the original layout in the design.
Construction was scheduled to go ahead, and they knocked down the pit buildings and the main grandstand … only for everything to come to a screeching halt. I can’t find any reliable source explaining why, but I have heard that someone – either a group of environmentalists or garden-variety NIMBYs – filed an injuction in an Austrian court, which was upheld, forcing construction to come to a halt. They couldn’t even rebuild what they had wiped out (if true, one suspects that the injunction was deliberately timed to achieve exactly this).
There were several attempts to get the project back up and running. Red Bull were initially involved, while Alex Wurz, KTM and Volkswagen were all linked to on-again, off-again bids, but nothing ever came of them. It wasn’t until 2008 that Red Bull committed to rebuilding the circuit. They decided not to build the “Westschleife” extension so as to save money and to get the circuit back to an operational state sooner.
However, Dietrich Mateschitz has gone on the record several times saying that the circuit will not host Formula 1 or MotoGP events, but rather limit itself to DTM and the likes of Formula 2.
PJ (@)
9th December 2012, 11:58
@KeithCollantine
Is the Red Bull Ring (A1 Ring) still FIA Grade 1? As far as I’m aware the only Grade 1 circuits F1 doesn’t currently race at are Imola and Istanbul (Indianapolis was converted to a bike layout for Moto GP).
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
9th December 2012, 12:07
@pjtierney I believe it was as of July last year, and I don’t think it or the regulations have changed sufficiently in the meantime to mean that’s no longer the case. Helmut Marko has said recently it is still FIA Grade 1.
Aditya Banerjee (@chicanef1)
5th December 2012, 18:24
@keithcollantine – You mean the original Osterreichring near the Zeltweg airfield? I though it was dangerous?
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
6th December 2012, 5:16
@keithcollantine
That, I think, is the major reason why the race won’t go ahead. The circuit is known as the Red Bull Ring. Red Bull would likely be the title sponsor of the event. And Red Bull would almost certainly fund it. As as if that wasn’t enough, Red Bull has never actually raced there. They are three-time World Champions and they have no useable data on the circuit. As a result, there would likely be a lot of pressure on the team to win there. But the circuit itself is the antithesis of everything Red Bull Racing have designed in their cars for years.
I just can’t see Red Bull – the parent company – backing a race at a circuit that carries their name if they weren’t confident that there was a reasonable chance that they would win there. If they did it regardless, then the team would likely have to produce bespoke parts purely for that race just to stand a chance, which has the potential to throw their entire season out of order. Christian Horner has said that work on the 2013 car is nearly done, and they will likely have a developent schedule fully planned out. Any move to include the Austrian Grand Prix on the calendar would place it as the tenth race of twenty in the season, at a time when everyone is introducing plenty of new parts to their cars, and the nature of its placement – ie, at the last minute – would throw that schedule into disarray as Red Bull try to plan a new upgrade to fit in with their schedule without disrupting it too much. And finally, a loss at their home race would likely damage the team’s morale.
There’s simply too much at stake for Red Bull to risk backing a race at the circuit.
Jay Menon (@jaymenon10)
5th December 2012, 23:49
It got to be Istanbul..Bernie’s been dropping some hints lately..and of course…he just said a couple days a go that he’s headed over to Istanbul!
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
5th December 2012, 23:53
@jaymenon10 – The World Motorsports Council is meeting there this week. And I believe the FIA prize-giving gala is being held there as well.
That said, I’m reasonably confident that Turkey will return in 2013. I can’t see the Red Bull Ring happening.
Piotr (@)
6th December 2012, 7:36
The stupidest circuit ever as everything that has something in common with Red Bull
bramadiS
5th December 2012, 15:24
How about the german GP itself, is it going to be run in Nurburgring?
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
5th December 2012, 15:41
They haven’t said yet, but I suspect it will be.
GeeMac (@geemac)
5th December 2012, 15:43
Joe Saward seems to think it’s going to be a race at the Red Bull Ring.
Lin1876 (@lin1876)
5th December 2012, 15:44
Good as Istanbul is, I would like to see a race in a country where there are a lot of fans (or at least one which is widely accessible). That leaves Magny-Cours, Paul Ricard and the A1 Ring, not an inspired choice, but it could be worse.
LoreMipsumdOtmElor
6th December 2012, 13:59
Magny-Cours is a fantastic circuit but the A1-Ring is even better. Both would provide great races. Can’t speak for Paul Ricard as I’ve never been there.
Force Maikel (@force-maikel)
5th December 2012, 16:02
I would love to return to the old A1 ring. What a turnaround that would be! Istanbul would be fine to.
Timothy Katz (@timothykatz)
5th December 2012, 21:29
The *old* A1 Ring, with the Hella-Licht Chicane at the top of the hill?
That would be fun..
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
5th December 2012, 22:36
It doesn’t exist anymore.
OmarR-Pepper (@)
5th December 2012, 16:04
I’m feeling a little lazy to compare calendars right now… Which tracks go out (talking about the 2012 calendar) to make room to new venues next year?
Ben (@benchuiii)
5th December 2012, 16:09
Valencia
OmarR-Pepper (@)
5th December 2012, 16:27
thanks… honestly the 2012 race wan’t so entertaining for me, so I won’t miss it.
Lateralus (@lateralus)
5th December 2012, 18:56
Wow, really? I’d put it in the top 3 races of 2012.
Flying Lobster 27
5th December 2012, 16:12
The Le Mans 24 Hours had been moved a week later to accommodate for New Jersey, and with NJ gone, at one point I believe Ecclestone had the bright idea to suggest that a French GP could take place a week before Britain… and on the same weekend as the new LM date! With this calendar, at least the insanity of having a direct competition between a Grand Prix and the Race of the Year is out (although there’s not much competition between the two when it comes to spectators’ value for money).
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
5th December 2012, 22:39
Come on, that was obviously Bernie negotiating with the circuits. They wanted something that Bernie didn’t like, and they wouldn’t budge. So he deliberately scheduled the race to clash with Le Mans to get them to think twice about it.
Colossal Squid (@colossal-squid)
5th December 2012, 17:05
There are far worse tracks to put back on the calendar than Turkey! And if it keeps the amount of races at 20, even better. The more the merrier!
Mallesh Magdum (@malleshmagdum)
5th December 2012, 17:28
why Istanbul? Bring back the Red Bull Ring!!!
George (@george)
5th December 2012, 17:59
Honestly if I had to choose between going to Goodwood and watching a grand prix I’d probably choose Goodwood…I wonder if they’d put a big screen up somewhere?
Aditya Banerjee (@chicanef1)
5th December 2012, 18:22
Gods, a busy July!!! Not good news for a man who celebrates his birthday in that month, but is yet to score a victory in the same!!!
zomtec (@zomtec)
5th December 2012, 18:54
I´d like to see if the German Grand Prix would be held on the Eurospeedway using Turn 1.
matt90 (@matt90)
5th December 2012, 18:56
I don’t remember Goodwood ever clashing with F1, seeing as so many teams and drivers are present. I wonder if Goodwood will change its date, or if this will be the weakest Festival of Speed in years.
thatscienceguy
5th December 2012, 21:27
FoS has always been scheduled for a weekend not clashing with with major motorsport to be able to attract top teams/people from different categories.
F1 has made a mess of next years calendar, first forcing Le Mans to move to avoid a clash, and now creatung a clash with FoS. In one fell swoop they’ve damaged two of the most important motorsport events of the year. But maybe that was their intention….
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
6th December 2012, 7:37
Yes, I’m sure this was all part of a master plan to weaken the appeal of Goodwood. The FIA and Bernie conspired to create a bogus race in New Jersey, which they then dropped and started negotiations with new circuits once Goodwood had set a date, giving them a ready-made excuse to move the German Grand Prix to that same weekend.
Or, as a much more reasonable explanation, negotiations with alternate venues for New Jersey showed that the best way forward was to move the German Grand Prix forward by two weeks. The organisers of the race at the Nurburgring agreed to this on the condition that doing so would protect the race regardless of the circuit’s financial condition. All parties involved liked this solution, as it allowed for twenty races in the 2013 season, adding a replacement for New Jersey and protecting an existing – and some would say important – race on the calendar, and Goodwood was simply a victim of circumstance.
But no, when I put it like that, it’s obviously an insidious conspiracy to weaken the Goodwood Festival of Speed for absolutely no reason at all, because Goodwood does not provide any kind of threat to Formula 1’s popularity.
[/sarcasm]
thatscienceguy
6th December 2012, 12:01
Says the guy who yesterday admitted he likes a conspiracy theory or two.
Chill dude, far out…
Ryan Williams (@ryanwilliams)
5th December 2012, 19:37
I expect Goodwood will announce a date change soon. You can’t have the Festival of Speed without F1. I’d guess they’d either push it back a week (Clashes with MotoGP, SRO Sprint Series & IndyCar) or have it the weekend after the Canadian GP (13th-16th June) but this still clashes with MotoGP & DTM
Ryan Williams (@ryanwilliams)
5th December 2012, 23:13
Actually, with the German MotoGP round on the same weekend as the German GP, there is no reason why Goodwood couldn’t move the FoS to the 14th July. No F1 and MotoGP would mean all the drivers and riders could attend
Commendatore (@commendatore)
5th December 2012, 20:05
To Bernie:
Bring back Brands Hatch!
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
5th December 2012, 22:40
It’s in no condition to host a Formula 1 race. It’s too small, lacks the necessary safety features of all Grade-1 circuits, and has no room to expand or rebuild to accomodate the changes that would be needed to bring it up to standard.
Joey Zyla (@)
5th December 2012, 22:18
*sigh*
We already have a race in Bahrain, we don’t need two races in countries with ongoing protests/wars.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
6th December 2012, 7:45
@joey-zyla – I’m not aware of any protests or wars in Turkey or Austria. The only possible thing I can think you’re referring to is Turkey’s action against Syria, and all they’re doing is defending themselves, trying to prevent a civil war in the country next door from spilling over and taking hold in their own lands. They’ve also agreed to let NATO station missile batteries inside their own borders, and while those missiles are aimed at Syria, they’re intended as a further deterrent.
Heaven forbid that Formula 1 should hold a race in a country willing to defend itself from an ongoing bloody conflict in a neighbouring country and allow itself to be used as a base for Western military powers to try and bring stability to the region that has been missing for a year.
Joey Zyla (@)
5th December 2012, 22:21
I think a return to Magny-Cours would be awesome, but Bernie doesn’t seem to be in to the idea of a French GP.
Macca (@macca)
5th December 2012, 22:23
Worst move ever. They have moved the German GP to the same week end as the German round of the Moto GP. Crowds will suffer big time.
thatscienceguy
5th December 2012, 22:40
And DTM at the Norisring apparently. Which was moved to avoid a clash with the original F1 date
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
6th December 2012, 7:39
Right, because everyone who follows MotoGP also follows Formula 1, everyone who follows Formula 1 also follows MotoGP, and there is no-one who only follows one category, but has no interest in the other. That guy who lived down the hall from me in college and loved MotoGP whilst hating Formula 1 must have been a freak of nature.
Macca (@macca)
6th December 2012, 23:54
Nice sarcastic attitude mate. As if it isn’t going to effect attendance figures for both events.
Adam Blocker (@blockwall2)
5th December 2012, 23:54
I wouldn’t mind a race in France, Turkey or Austria. I just don’t see them doing that many back-to-back races (in fact I don’t want them to), they should move Hungary back a week, then pair Silverstone and Germany together and pair the France/Turkey race with Hungary.
AdrianMorse (@adrianmorse)
5th December 2012, 23:56
How hot is Istanbul going to be in the middle of July? Still, it’s a good track, but Paul Ricard and the Red Bull Ring would also be good options.
What I don’t understand is why heaven and earth is being moved to keep 20 races on the calendar, given that the workload for the teams is so heavy already.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
6th December 2012, 0:02
@adrianmorse
The teams did twenty races this year, and didn’t complain about it at all. In fact, they’ve given twenty races as the ideal number for the championship. It may not be as ideal sixteen or eighteen races, but no doubt they’re getting some kind of compensation for it.
So long as the teams are happy to do twenty races, I see no reason why that should change.
AdrianMorse (@adrianmorse)
6th December 2012, 0:11
@prisoner-monkeys, I seem to remember them complaining last year, though, so I don’t see why the burdens would suddenly have lifted.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
6th December 2012, 0:58
Because now that they’ve done it, they know that it’s possible, and it’s not as bad as they first thought.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
6th December 2012, 0:59
And if it was really so difficult, they could always simply not apply to race in 2013.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
6th December 2012, 6:00
Here’s an interesting link showing the number of races per season.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_Grands_Prix#Races_by_season
From 1980 to 2000, there were about 16 races per season. From 2000-2100 that number jumped to 17-18. Now they are obviously pushing towards 20.
As fans, of course, we want to watch as many races as possible.
Joey Zyla (@)
6th December 2012, 17:31
No, 16 is fine for me. What happens when you have 20 races is you don’t get to narrow it down to the truly best circuits. There should be at least two of the newer circuits (Yeongam, Buddh, Austin, etc.) removed.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
6th December 2012, 6:01
Oh, did anyone know that Morocco had hosted a F1 gran prix before?
Thomas (@)
6th December 2012, 7:28
My guess, France or Turkey. Austria would be nice but unrealistic.
JackySteeg (@jackysteeg)
9th December 2012, 16:16
Red Bull Ring makes perfect sense. They surely already have the money, whereas France and Turkey will no doubt need government funding.
Also, F1 needs a short track. Shorter tracks mean more laps in a race, more traffic for the drivers and therefore more action for the fans in the grandstands. I don’t understand why F1 seems to favour those mid-length tracks…
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
9th December 2012, 16:19
@jackysteeg
I agree: F1 needs more variety in its circuits and length is one of several ways tracks have become too similar.
AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
10th December 2012, 22:17
I hope it is the return of the Turkish GP, it’s my favourite F1 grade circuit by bar. Almost it’s pretty cool how the German GP will coincide with the FoS as I will most likely try and get to Goodwood next year.