Webber says Red Bull updates didn’t favour Vettel

F1 Fanatic round-up

Mark Webber, Red Bull, Interlagos, 2012In the round-up: Mark Webber says the development of the RB8 in the late stages of the season did not favour Sebastian Vettel over him.

Links

Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:

Updates didn’t favour Seb – Webber (ESPN)

“Singapore’s been a track – there and Hockenheim – that were the two venues that were probably my weakest performances of the year, although we had a howler with strategy in Singapore to rub salt in the wounds. So not really; I was strong in Suzuka, I was very strong there and Seb and I were on the front row. I was strong in Korea, I was strong in India.”

Bad results are why I left – Haug (BBC)

“There is always somebody who has to accept overall responsibility. Of course we have had our successes in the past three years, but not consistently enough so a direction had to be set and a marker laid down.”

McLaren wants aggressive Pirellis (Autosport)

Sam Michael: “The race was better when it was like that [more unpredictable]. It wasn’t unfair, it was down to who could understand and manage. That’s what we do with everything.”

Todt: Schumacher won?t be inactive for long (Crash)

“Maybe he will decide to come back to race in a couple of years. His decision [to retire] relates only to F1, so he could decide to race in another category.”

Exclusive interview with Caterham’s Cyril Abiteboul (F1)

“I think maybe we overstated what was achievable in 2012. For 2013 I?d like to look back and say we continued to develop as a team, seized whatever opportunities came our way and surprised a few people, without compromising the preparation for 2014. For small teams like us 2014 is just as much a major risk -due to our size in particular ?ǣ as it is an interesting opportunity, due to the quality of the technical relationship with Renault.”

Comment of the day

Fernando Alonso was named the top driver of 2012 by F1 Fanatic yesterday. Here’s why @Hotbottoms voted for him in the Driver of the Year poll:

I voted Alonso, but I disagree with some of the comments above that say ??Alonso was miles ahead everyone else?? or that ??if someone didn?t vote Alonso he was watching the season with a binbag on their head??. Apparently Alonso?s I-always-take-the-maximum-out-of-my-car-even-though-it?s-a-lawnmower-and-I-never-make-mistakes-don?t-you-dare-to-claim-Suzuka-was-my-fault PR strategy is working.

I think the top four was very, very close this year and any of them could be regarded as the driver of the year. In my books Alonso was a little better than Hamilton, Raikkonen and Vettel, but I can fully understand if someone feels differently.
@Hotbottoms

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On this day in F1

Jim Clark scored another win for the Lotus 25 in the non-championship Rand Grand Prix in 1962.

There were four Lotuses in the top five in the 50-lap race at Kyalami, Clark scoring a narrow win over team mate Trevor Taylor in another 25.

John Surtees was third in a Lola followed by Gary Hocking (Lotus 24) and Neville Lederle (Lotus 21).

Image ?? Red Bull/Getty images

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60 comments on Webber says Red Bull updates didn’t favour Vettel

  1. OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 15th December 2012, 0:12

    Well said COTD!!!!
    In respect to Red Bull car, it looks like even when the car doesn’t suit Seb, he is still better than Webber. Of course Webber’s wins this year are “not bad for a number 2 driver”

    • montreal95 (@montreal95) said on 15th December 2012, 7:38

      @omarr-pepper After Silverstone(race 9) the number 2 driver led the number 1 driver by 16 points , and as the article said. after race 13 was only 8 points behind. Your suggestion that “even when the car doesn’t suit Seb, he is still better than Webber” is clearly incorrect and contrary to what the article says. Webber says that the Sinagapore update wasn’t made particularly to suit Vettel , but make the RB8 better for both drivers. Nowhere does he say that the update didn’t suit Vettel. Webber says that it was coincidence that the update arrived just when he hit a black patch with Singapore(his weakest track of the year, every year), then hit by Grosjean in Suzuka ( I will also add, after being prevented from a challenge to Vettel’s pole by Kimi’s spin), Then a poor start in Korea after beating Seb to pole, then being hit in Abu Dhabi, alternator failure in USA, hit by Kobayshi in Brazil

      Also, when the car really didn’t suit Seb, which was at the beginning of the season, Webber had the upper hand on him more often than not

      All that is not to say, that Webber is on par or better than Seb. It’s just that apart from 2011 it has been very close between them, actually the closest battle between team-mates in the top 4 teams this year. Much closer than for example Button vs Hamilton, where only huge amounts of bad luck prevented Hammy from destroying Button completely as he did in qualy (16-4)

      • David-A (@david-a) said on 15th December 2012, 9:51

        It’s just that apart from 2011 it has been very close between them, actually the closest battle between team-mates in the top 4 teams this year. Much closer than for example Button vs Hamilton, where only huge amounts of bad luck prevented Hammy from destroying Button completely as he did in qualy (16-4)

        I know that you don’t think Webber is on par, but I still disagree. In 2010, It was also “huge amounts of bad luck” that prevented Vettel from beating Webber by a huge margin. In 2012, Vettel outperformed Webber by the tune of around 100 points, and was only beaten in a quartet of races all year (China, Silverstone, Monaco, Brazil). Only in 2009 was Webber genuinely close throughout the season (in the races, at least), without significant “luck” factors. Vettel was at least as far ahead of Webber, as Hamilton was ahead of Button.

        • montreal95 (@montreal95) said on 15th December 2012, 23:31

          @david-a First you say that 2010 was a lot of bad luck for Vettel. But then you say that he beat Webber in 2012 by 100 points, when from my post above and the list of things happened to MW it’s clear that this 100 point difference involved huge amounts of bad luck. You can’t eat the pie and keep it.

          Same regarding the 4 races you mention even if true sounds huge because of the same reason. Everybody mentions that Vettel retired from the lead in Valencia, but everyone forgets that MW was prevented from challenging in qualy and had to start 19th in the race, just a small example

          Most of Button’s problems on the other hand, while also having some bad luck, were entirely of his own making, or to be more precise, his complete inability to drive a car that isn’t suiting him 100 percent.
          I think if you look on pace, it’s clear that Button was farther behind Lewis than Webber was behind Vettel. Especially the gap in qualy was huge. Even when Lewis wasn’t right in the head in 2011, Button only managed to overtake him on points in the tail-end of the season. And still lost in qualy head to head

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 16th December 2012, 0:59

            @montreal95

            First you say that 2010 was a lot of bad luck for Vettel. But then you say that he beat Webber in 2012 by 100 points, when from my post above and the list of things happened to MW it’s clear that this 100 point difference involved huge amounts of bad luck. You can’t eat the pie and keep it.

            They both had their share of misfortune in 2012, to be honest. Although Webber might have suffered a but more “bad luck”, it wouldn’t have made a major dent on the gap between them. That’s in stark contrast to 2010.

            However, Mark Webber has indeed been much closer in qualifying to Vettel over the 3 years, than Button.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 16th December 2012, 1:08

            And of course, Ham would have beaten But by more than Vet beat Web in 2012, but in 2010 the opposite would have happened.

      • apart from 2011 it has been very close between them, actually the closest battle between team-mates in the top 4 teams this year.

        That’s a bit like saying that “apart from the first two-thirds of the season things have been extremely competitive between Alonso and Massa”. But even if you ignore 2011 completely and focus on starting position to the exclusion of race results, Vettel had 19 pole positions in 2009, 2010, and 2012 to Webbers 7.

        • montreal95 (@montreal95) said on 15th December 2012, 23:59

          @jonsan Absolutely not the same. 2011 is one of four seasons so no way it’s even close mathematically speaking. If, for example SV would outperform MW by the same margin as 2011 in 3 out of their 4 seasons together you might have had a point

          And your focus is very selective. Why not count qualy head to head but only poles? in 2012 the qualy score is 11-9 to Vettel. In 2010 12-7. 2009 was 15-2 which sounds huge but the gaps were minimal and in the races the pace was similar. 2011 was the only season when SV was far ahead of MW both in qualy and races(MW’s bad starts didn’t help in that regard). Again I’m not trying to argue that MW was somehow on par with Vettel during their time together, only that it was much closer between them, than some would lead us to believe

      • F1fanNL (@) said on 15th December 2012, 23:05

        @montreal95

        After Silverstone(race 9) the number 2 driver led the number 1 driver by 16 points , and as the article said. after race 13 was only 8 points behind.

        After Vettel had lost 12 points because of Karthikeyan in Malaysia (which meant 2 more points for Webber) and 25 points because of an alternator failure in Valencia (which also meant 2 more points for Webber). The gap to Webber would have been bigger after Italy as well were it not for another alternator failure. Whereas Webber just spun off overdoing it.

        Vettel and Webber were closely matched in the first half of the season but Vettel was still quicker in most races. Webber had the slight upperhand in qualifying.

        • montreal95 (@montreal95) said on 16th December 2012, 0:19

          @f1fannl You mention Vettel’s problems, even those of his own making like Sepang but conveniently forget the problems MW had. you hadn’t even mentioned that in the same race SV retired from the lead MW had to start 19th

          I disagree that MW’s advantage in qualy was slight. Had the team not made the mistake in Spain qualy it would be 5 out first 6 qualys to Webber. Even so, it was 6-3 after Britain. On race pace it was a slight edge to Vettel 5-4. Webber was faster in Monaco, Silverstone, China and Spain(both drivers had problems in the race but when in clear air Webber was slightly quicker). So if anything the “slight” advantage was Vettel’s in this case as opposed to what you’d said

          • F1fanNL (@) said on 16th December 2012, 1:08

            @montreal95

            You mention Vettel’s problems, even those of his own making like Sepang

            Sepang wasn’t of his own making. Karthikeyan had left the track. He had no right to rejoin the track as he did with half the pace of the other cars. Remeber Hamilton in Hungary 2011? Same thing. That’s why Karthikeyan received a penalty and that’s also why karthikeyan admitted to be at fault.

            and Spain(both drivers had problems in the race but when in clear air Webber was slightly quicker

            No he wasn’t. Vettel finished 6th after overtaking both McLarens and Rosberg. Webber finished 11th because he couldn’t overtake Hulkenberg.

          • F1fanNL (@) said on 16th December 2012, 1:09

            Anyways, you said Webber had the upper hand more often than not. Even with your numbers that’s clearly not the case.

          • montreal95 (@montreal95) said on 16th December 2012, 16:26

            @f1fannl Kartikeyan wasn’t off the track. Vettel was impatient to lap him in the middle of a one-line corner, pushed him into the dirt outside the racing line where Narain lost the rear slightly and touched Vettel’s left rear. Vettel should’ve waited 50 meters and lapped him safely. There was also no rush, as the gaps to cars both front and behind were too big anyway. Karthikeyan didn’t admit to be at fault(in fact after Vettel called him an idiot he said that it’s Vettel who’s an idiot and it was a racing incident). And the penalty he received was unjust, as the stewards seem to give automatic penalty to backmarkers in such a clash regarding frontrunners even if they’re not at fault

            Regarding Webber in Spain: Why was he behind Hulkenberg? Because of another problem not of his own making. I also said “in clear air”. Webber couldn’t overtake the Hulk and since their top speeds with Vettel were rather similar and around 10kph(!) slower than Hulkenberg, I doubt that Vettel could’ve done any different

            My maths are correct. 6-3 to Webber in qualy. 5-4 to Vettel on race pace. 10-8 to Webber combined. That’s more often than not in my book

          • F1fanNL (@) said on 18th December 2012, 21:25

            @montreal95

            Go watch the onboard footage from Vettels car. He’s running behind Hamilton who catches up to Karthikeyan before turn 8. Hamilton, who knew Vettel was closing in at 1 to a few tenths a lap, didn’t want to lose too much time behind the HRT and puts his car next to the HRT just as Karthikeyan turns in. Karthikeyan reacts and goes off track. That is clearly visible when Karthikeyan hits the run off area and throws up a lot of spray from it. You can clearly see his car fishtailing. That’s what Karthikeyan was refering to when he said it’s not fair that some drivers just bully you off the track.
            Then Karthikeyan decided to rejoin the racing line at less than the racing speed just before Vettel passed him. Karthikeyan then moves behind Vettel too soon and clips his rear wheel.
            See for yourself.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkFCE-9BRfE

            You can also clearly see Vettel doesn’t cut across Karthikeyan.

            Regarding Webber in Spain: Why was he behind Hulkenberg? Because of another problem not of his own making.

            That’s not the point. The point is that he couldn’t overtake Hulkenberg whereas Vettel could overtake two McLarens and Rosberg. With Rosberg having a higher top speed (317) as Hulkenberg (313)…

            My maths are correct. 6-3 to Webber in qualy. 5-4 to Vettel on race pace. 10-8 to Webber combined. That’s more often than not in my book

            Qualifying is one lap. The race is the most important thing of the weekend. Raikkonen has been slower than Grosjean in most Qualifying sessions too. Do you consider Grosjean to be faster than Raikkonen more often than not too? Or does that only count when you desperately try to discredit Vettel?

      • F1fanNL (@) said on 15th December 2012, 23:13

        @montreal95

        Much closer than for example Button vs Hamilton

        In 2010 Hamilton vs Button was a lot closer than Vettel vs Webber. Webber just looked to be a match for Vettel because Vettel lost 70+ points to failures. And then there’s the mistakes Vettel made. 2011 showed what would have happened in 2010 if Vettel hadn’t suffered any problems.
        In 2011 Button beat Hamilton in almost every way possible. Not at the same level as Vettel beat Webber but still. While Button was scoring good points Hamilton drove around like a rookie and hit everything that moved.
        This year it’s true Hamilton beat Button convicingly but overall I’d say from the three top teams Button and Hamilton have been the closest match up for the past three years.

        • montreal95 (@montreal95) said on 16th December 2012, 0:32

          Disagree completely. Hamilton beat Button in qualifying by bigger margin than SV beat Webber. The gap in points was bigger. The gap in pace was bigger. You again mention only Vettel’s problems but forget that Webber also had some, like Valencia for example

          In 2011 Hamilton was ahead of Button in every parameter until two thirds of the season(Spa). The only reason Button beat Lewis on points in 2011 were Lewis’s stupid collisions. He still beat Button in qualy though. Hamilton was as fast, if not faster than Button throughout the season but made a huge amount of mistakes

          I agree that over the last 3 seasons Mclaren’s pairing was the closest because of MW’s disastrous 2011. Look at my original post, I’d said “this season” .

          • F1fanNL (@) said on 16th December 2012, 1:18

            You again mention only Vettel’s problems but forget that Webber also had some, like Valencia for example

            What problem did Webber have in Valencia 2010? A bad start? A badly judged overtake? Those are hardly problems… As for technical failures, I honestly can’t think of any technical failures for Webber in 2010 outside of free practice. Please enlighten me.

            Look at my original post, I’d said “this season”

            It’s just that apart from 2011 it has been very close between them

            Hmm, yeah. You were clearly talking about 2012 only…

          • montreal95 (@montreal95) said on 16th December 2012, 17:15

            You’re mixing apples and oranges here. I’d said this season the Red bull team-mates battle was closest of the top teams, closer than Mcaren.

            I also said that overall the battle between Red Bull team-mates had been close, apart from 2011. See? No comparisons to other teams regarding past seasons

            2010 Valencia after the race it was known that MW had problem with the clutch. He also was hit by Kubica in turn 4 and had to make an early stop, had a slow pitstop, which put him in that position with Heikki. It’s also debatable that it was a bad overtake. Rather he couldn’t believe that the Lotus would be slower by such a huge margin, it was like Heikki was standing still.

            here’s a few problems in 2010 for Webber from memory:
            lost 6 places in China when he was forced off track by Button(at least 11 points lost)
            out-qualified Vettel in Canada only to be demoted 5 places for gearbox change(unknown how well better than 5th he could’ve done)
            Germany-oil pickup problem in the race, finished 6th could’ve been fourth (4 points lost)
            There were also cases of botched strategy but since I’m writing from memory I can’t remember where that was.

          • F1fanNL (@) said on 18th December 2012, 21:37

            @montreal95

            I also said that overall the battle between Red Bull team-mates had been close, apart from 2011. See? No comparisons to other teams regarding past seasons

            So, no comparison.

            actually the closest battle between team-mates in the top 4 teams this year


            Yeah, no apples or oranges here.

            lost 6 places in China when he was forced off track by Button

            That’s racing. It’s the same as saying Vettel lost points in Germany this year because Button forced him off track which made Vettel decide to overtake him off track…

            out-qualified Vettel in Canada only to be demoted 5 places for gearbox change(unknown how well better than 5th he could’ve done)

            No better than Vettel as Vettel was faster in the race and couldn’t get passed Button. So #4 at best. 2 points.

            Germany-oil pickup problem in the race, finished 6th could’ve been fourth (4 points lost)

            So 6 points total. Wow, dreadful… He wouldn’t even have been champion with those points.
            As for botched strategies, every driver has had those. They’re part of f1. Sometimes teams make a brilliant call, sometimes they make a not so brilliant call.

      • You`re funny, how anyone can seriously suggest that Webber is anywhere near Vettel at this point in time is beyond me.

        The year Webber seemed to be in with a shot was in 2009, but as the season went by he faded.
        In 2010 he was able to compete on points, but only because of Vettel`s misfortune. Some people would probably claim that it partially had to do with Vettels mistakes in 2010 as well. Granted Vettel made some big mistakes in 2010, but even with those mistakes he would have beaten Webber by a solid margin had it not been for his mechanical misfortune. Yet again in 2010 Webber faded towards the end of the season while Vettel grew stronger.

        Over the two seasons (09 and 10) I felt Vette had the speed advantage over Webber, but Webber edged Vettel for race craft. If Vettel got into truble he was likely to create more trouble on his own untill the end of the 2010 season. There still seemed to be a glimmer of hope for Webber.

        Then came 2011, and Webber was well and truly demolished. By now Vettel`s race craft was more than a match for Webber while the speed advantage was still there. No contest. Once more Webber faded towards the end of the season.

        2012 was a year of two halves for both Vettel and Webber, but what had become clear the previous season was still valid. In the first half of the season Webber had the upper hand in qualifying and Vettel was struggling. But come race day Vettel would come out on top most of the time and baring mechanical failure, penalties and tangles would have scored more points than Webber. Then came the second part of the season and yes, Webber had some misfortune. But even if he had not had this misfortune he would never have been anywhere near Vettels points tally over the second part of the season. Not even close, he faded towards the end of the season again.

        The difference in speed between F1 drivers is indeed measured in hundreth and tenths of seconds. There`s not much between them as we can see from several driver pairings. Webber is a great driver and a fantastic qualifier, many have forgotten that Webber used to have a reputation as a qualifying-specialist. What separates Webber and Vettel is a little bit of speed and a lot of something else, what some refer to as “that something extra”.
        “That something extra” is what gives Vettel the opportunity to up his game when the pressure is on and a title is on the line. As the battle for the Championship intensifies Vettel grows stronger year after year as several other drivers fade. This quality is probably something you`re born with, either you got it or you don`t.

        How do you think Webber would have done in Brasil if he had been spun like Vettel was, had to drive a damaged car without radio and had one good for nothing pit-stop because of all this? Despite this Vettel first caught Webber and passed him in the race, was much faster in the race and was not far behind in the end (after the pit-stop blunder). If Webber had the same happen to him I`m 100% sure the 2012 WDC would be Fernando Alonso.

        Very few competitors in any sport has that “something extra”. F1 is blessed in that respect as several drivers got it. Vettel, Alonso and Raikkonen definitely got it whereas Hamilton probably got it. I say probably because Hamilton has lost one championship because of what looked like nerves in 2007, almost lost a sure thing in 2008 due to the same and generally seems to perform better when the pressure is totally off. That remains to be seen though, I think we saw an older, wiser and more mature Hamilton this year and will give him the benefit of the doubt.

  2. macahan (@macahan) said on 15th December 2012, 0:13

    I thought Schumi stated in his retirement announcement that he was done with racing all together and didn’t have any plans to race in any other series/category at all. Of course personally I wonder how long that would last. Would he turn down a LeMans drive if Audi offered it to him?

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 16th December 2012, 0:35

      @macahan Sadly it seems unlikely he would. He has been asked about a return to sportscars and appeared completely uninterested. I think it’s a shame, particularly as he learned a lot from experienced ex-F1 drivers like Jochen Mass when he was in Mercedes sports car programme, and I’m sure there are plenty of young drivers out there, such as those in Audi’s programme, who could learn from him.

  3. I don’t fully agree with Webber as I think they did coincidently happen to favour Vettel’s driving as he is quite happy to drive “unnaturally” but I do agree in the respect that it was purely a performance upgrade and that Webber also gained from it as well, just perhaps not as much as Vettel. After all, it was Webber – not Vettel – who took pole in Korea.

  4. sumedh said on 15th December 2012, 2:04

    Very appropriate COTD!

    While in the first half, it was indeed that Alonso was miles ahead of everyone else, by the end of the year, the gap between the top 4 was very little.

  5. wasiF1 (@wasif1) said on 15th December 2012, 2:28

    Happy Birthday Steph90 enjoy the day.

  6. OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 15th December 2012, 2:43

    Happy birthday @Steph90 !
    That means that you’r going to change your nickname to Steph91?

  7. tandrews (@tomand95) said on 15th December 2012, 3:38

    There’s a great video that Red Bull posted on their youtube channel that talks about the team since they joined F1 in 2005. It also features a funny impersonation of Helmut Marko by Adrian Newey! Not sure if it has been posted on this site, but it is a good watch for anyone who hasn’t seen it yet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDMVac2nuAo

  8. @Hotbottom Alonso said later that Suzuka was a racing incident. That seems to be the general consensus of everyone who were watching the race, barring a few mad Alonso fans or Kimi fans.

  9. AdrianMorse (@adrianmorse) said on 15th December 2012, 6:06

    I guess it’s sporting of Sam Michael to wish for challenging Pirelli tyres, but he should be careful what he wishes for, lest his lead driver has another troubled season in which he won’t be able to challenge for the title.

  10. katederby (@katederby) said on 15th December 2012, 11:23

    Two men to admire in F1 who aren’t making excuses but being honest and taking the responsibility for their actions. Well said, Nobert Haug and Mark Webber.

  11. AlokIn (@alokin) said on 15th December 2012, 12:12

    Webber has not realised even after racing 3 years with Seb that his car is used for testing in the race while Seb cruises to victory.
    Wake up NO 2, driver !!

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 15th December 2012, 12:29

      @alokin I’d like to know what facts you base this view on which you choose to rubbish what Webber is saying.

      • AlokIn (@alokin) said on 15th December 2012, 15:03

        Keith,
        2010@ British GP, Webber’s front wing given to Vettel.
        2012@ So many times Webber’s KERS failed during the race days. This year Seb’s car has never had KERS problem, how it is possible ?
        Apart from these things, all different race strategies experimented on Webber’s car to understand the Pirelli tyres.

        These are the things which we came to know and it is quite rare to see Seb’s car under performing.

        • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 15th December 2012, 15:14

          @alokin That doesn’t came anywhere near close to persuading me that “[Webber's] car is used for testing in the race while Seb cruises to victory”. Yes, Webber’s had a few KERS problems but the RB8 had glitches just as its predecessors did. Vettel retired twice this year because of his alternator.

          As @aka_robyn points out, Webber is far better placed to judge this sort of thing than someone cherry-picking a couple of incidents from the four years Vettel and Webber have been together and using them to come up with something fanciful like this.

          • AlokIn (@alokin) said on 15th December 2012, 16:15

            @Keith,
            Webber too once faced the alternator issue. How do you justify the KERS issues only with Webber. Vettel never complained about this.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 15th December 2012, 16:56

            @alokin – Vettel has had KERS failures, just not as often. Malaysia 2011, Britain 2011, Spain 2011, for instance.

          • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 16th December 2012, 0:38

            @alokin As @david-a points out, it is not as if Vettel didn’t have similar such problems. You just seem to be picking out incidents affecting Webber and ignoring those that affected Vettel.

          • @alokin Yes, again with the picking and choosing.

            For a while now, I’ve been dying for someone to answer this for me: those of you who think this kind of thing is going on, knowing what you know about Mark Webber, how do you explain his part in it year after year? Is he stupid? Gullible? A liar?

          • AlokIn (@alokin) said on 16th December 2012, 5:55

            @aka_robyn,

            I have been following F1 from 2008 on wards and what I can see that Webber knowingly or unknowingly playing the second fiddle role. The last time Webber did race with Seb was Turkey 2010, which resulted infamous collision between him and Seb.

            Look at the Mclaren, they never preferred a single driver. A true champion should beat his team mate first then others on track.

            It was very much surprising to see him resign with Team which has been denying him opportunities to race with Seb.

            Personally I feel Seb and Webber are equally competent drivers but Webber has to improve his race starts and qualifying.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 16th December 2012, 14:39

            @alokin

            How about China and Belgium 2012? Webber looked like he was allowed to race Vettel there. But over the course of a season, it’s clear that Vettel is stronger, i.e. that Webber is not “equally competent” to Vettel, as decent a driver as Mark still is.

          • @alokin Yeah, I think we’ve established that you believe all that. You seem to carefully avoid addressing any specific points people bring up in response, though.

            I know there’s no convincing people like you that you’re mistaken about this “equal equipment” non-issue, so what I want to know is what you think Webber is getting out of the arrangement. Why would he put up with it? I guess, going back to your original comment, I’d conclude you just think he’s kind of dumb.

        • F1fanNL (@) said on 16th December 2012, 0:07

          @alokin

          So the constant car failures for Vettel in 2010 were to test Webbers parts?

    • Because fans like you know so much better than Webber himself ever could, right?

    • BasCB (@bascb) said on 15th December 2012, 15:18

      Have a look at the video posted in @tomand95 above @alokin and read what Webber writes.

      I think we can be very sure that Webber would make his feelings know if he found he was badly done by by the team. Iin 2010 Turkey and then Silverstone he made it very clear that he disliked how the team behaved, he did not fail to mention the team did want him to hold back last year, so I have little doubt we would know it if he felt the same this year. And just think back at the race in China this year, when Vettel chose not to use the latest update, and Webber did. Immediately the team focussed more on Webbers car than on Vettels.

  12. Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 15th December 2012, 16:07

    Great stuff according to Bild Mercedes GP tried to contact Christian Horner but Helmut Marko said they are late because Horner has just extended his contract for other years
    http://www.bild.de/sport/motorsport/mercedes-gp/heiss-auf-den-boss-von-vettel-27668332.bild.html

    The question is and i can’t tell you the answer what the hell is going on ?
    They didn’t extend Haug’s contract and they were after Horner who has the same role of Ross Brawn ??

  13. Vettel performs extremely strongly in the Asian races every single year. I don’t see any need for conjecture about whether upgrades favored him.

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