‘Fourth engine manufacturer’ could join F1

2013 F1 season

Mercedes, 2013A new engine manufacturer is considering joining Formula One, according to Mercedes’ team bosses.

Mercedes executive director Toto Wolff said he was certain the new engine regulations would take effect from next year:

“I’m 100% sure that the new engine is going to come. All the manufacturers are pretty far with their engine. You’re probably going to see a fourth one joining.

“And I think that decision has been made for good or for bad. It’s a nice piece of engineering and it is the future and this is why we have to get used to all these changes and I’m looking very much forward to the new engine format.”

There are four engine manufacturers in F1 at present. However Cosworth is only supplying engines to Marussia this year.

“There are lots of rumours out there – probably you know better than I about engine manufacturers joining,” Wolff added.

Team principal Ross Brawn said the new engine formula for 2014 was more likely to attract new entrants than the current one:

“In some ways it’s a great opportunity, in some ways it’s slightly painful, going into this new engine. But it’s a step I think we need to make at some stage because the current engine, the V8, has become a bit archaic.

“It doesn’t appeal to new manufactures, or new manufacturers don’t want to come in and make a V8 engine, normally aspirated, the the technology is different now. but the new regulations are making it more attractive.

“As Toto mentioned there’s other manufacturers looking seriously at Formula One now, which with the old engine we never would have got.”

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73 comments on ‘Fourth engine manufacturer’ could join F1

  1. Lucas Wilson (@full-throttle-f1) said on 4th February 2013, 16:24

    P.U.R.E.?

  2. Lucas Wilson (@full-throttle-f1) said on 4th February 2013, 16:27

    VW? :-)

  3. Journeyer (@journeyer) said on 4th February 2013, 16:27

    I wonder if they say it out of knowledge or just out of hope?

    It won’t be PURE (they’re a dead entity to me). I’m guessing it’ll either be Audi or, more likely IMO, a return of Honda.

  4. TMF (@tmf42) said on 4th February 2013, 16:28

    would be cool to see Honda or Toyota returning.

  5. topdowntoedown (@topdowntoedown) said on 4th February 2013, 16:36

    “AMG” instead of Mercedes High Performance Engines, I reckon. ;)

  6. Steve Antrobus (@antrobus1990) said on 4th February 2013, 16:40

    isn’t that PURE? Thats been known for a while?

  7. wsrgo said on 4th February 2013, 16:43

    TAG(Porsche)?

  8. Lauri (@f1lauri) said on 4th February 2013, 16:45

    What are the agreements about engine suppliers? I think there was a maximum number of teams one engine supplier can sell its engines?

    McLaren might be in a hard place. You can’t have Ferrari engines. Merc might not give its engines. So it only leaves Renault – and RBR is Renaults main team.

  9. HoHum (@hohum) said on 4th February 2013, 16:49

    It is certainly a more relevant technology for manufacturers to get involved with, who knows, maybe GM or Ford would like the opportunity to get some publicity benefits and early testing of Hybrid technologies that they have to research anyway, as I’ve been droning on about forever the actual V6 engine is going to be a pretty simple and inexpensive item for a manufacturer to design and build, the difficult and expensive part will be the electrical power pack.

  10. BNKracing (@bnkracing) said on 4th February 2013, 16:54

    So what ever happened to Cosworth? I cant remember which engines Marussia used last year.

  11. robfff said on 4th February 2013, 17:21

    Spaghetti?!

  12. frogster said on 4th February 2013, 17:33

    I was hoping McLaren would be building their own engine, or at least jumping into bed with an exclusive deal with Honda or
    VAG.
    Another engine supplier is needed. What’s going to happen if one of the current three ( Cosworth won’t be there next year IMO) builds a complete pile of **** ?. Say Renault’s new powerplant is a dog, that would take RB, Lotus and Williams out of the championships. Or what if Mercedes pulls the plug, leaving just two suppliers?. Or Ferrari can’t get theirs to work, that’s probably the worst scenario of all. Luca would implode.

    • Force Maikel (@force-maikel) said on 4th February 2013, 17:49

      Even if Mercedes pulls the plug on their F1 team there is no evidence to suggest they would also stop supplying engines.

      I personally think none of the current engine manufacturers is going to fail in building a decent enough engine.

    • There isn’t much of a reason to suggest that one manufacturer may build an uncompetitive engine: the regulations dictate pretty much every aspect of the engines, so for a manufacturer to build an uncompetitive engine they’d have to not be able to read in essence!

      • frogster said on 4th February 2013, 18:45

        You’re right there’s not much evidence but that doesn’t mean it won’t happen. I don’t think there will be any problems on the performance front, afterall the performance is regulated. Reliability is another thing alltogether, especially in the first couple of seasons. Redbull having been running KERS for 3 years and still can’t get it to work reliably. Mercedes had a terrible time for a couple of seasons with their engine. The new powertrains will suffer reliability problems at first, which is to be expected, but it’s not at all inconceivable that a manufacturer will cut their losses to protect their brand if problems persist.

  13. And who’s that 4th manufacturer going to be? It isn’t VW, that’s for sure. They were quite open and serious about a potential involvement, but only starting 2015. So VW, Audi, Porsche, Lamborghini and Bugatti are all out of the picture, at least for 2014. I don’t see Toyota coming back too soon either, based on how their last escapade in F1 ended and their current commitment to the WEC project. Hyundai is nothing more than a Bernie-fueled rumour right now, PURE had their cash-cord pulled a while ago etc. etc.

    In my humble opinion, I simply can’t see anyone prepping an engine in time for 2014 other than Honda. They are the only manufacturer that already have a V6 turbo they can develop (the one they run in IndyCar) and the know-how to do so in less than one year. Think about it, what if Ross Brawn gets the boot from Mercedes? Maybe laying the foundation for a new Honda factory team might not be that bad of a prospect for him. And what if there’s some truth and willingness on both sides, behind the McLaren-Honda rumours? I know it’s all science-fiction at this stage, but this is a puzzle where the pieces might just fit.

    Personally I’d love to see Toyota or BMW aiming for a comeback, or an US manufacturer like Chevrolet getting involved, or Audi and their WEC staff launching an F1 offensive, or even Citroen or Peugeot having a go at Renault’s crown but…my money is on Honda.

    • nidzovski (@nidzovski) said on 4th February 2013, 18:09

      Nice combinations! All of it :)

    • DC (@dujedcv) said on 4th February 2013, 20:37

      Honda or Audi. VW just became involved in WRC, Porsche is coming to Le Mans in 2014 and since they are owned by the same people – Audi. I agree on Toyota, BMW and Chevy (or how about Ford). Peugeot unlikely because they have just ditched their Le Mans effort and fired a lots of people as part of restructuring, and Citroen will soon go from WRC to WTCC. Honda and Audi have all the experience needed.

      Or maybe something Chinese to power HRT and other Minardis.

      Or Cosworth :)

      • @dujedcv – As far as I know, the 2014 regulations of both F1 and WEC are allowing some sort of bridge between the two competitions, both from an engine and aerodynamic perspective.

        If that indeed happens, not only F1 might suddenly be of interest to manufacturers involved in endurance racing but it might as well be an incentive for Porsche. And to be honest, if VW are to enter F1 at some point, I could bet everything on the fact that they will do it through Porsche. Audi does too well in endurance and GT Racing at this point and VW are probably looking at a long-term commitment to rallying at the moment (and we know they can’t handle more than one project at a time since they had to pull the cord on the Dakar in order to finance and concentrate on the WRC effort).

        I’m curious what Toyota is up to, to be honest and what will happen if this year’s LeMans effort doesn’t pay off and they get trashed by Audi once again. They’ve already announced they will only run one car as the full season contender in the WEC and a second car at LeMans, after last year they led everyone to believe they will run two cars in the WEC and three at LeMans. There’s either great confidence or financial issues there. To be honest, I’m not sure Toyota have the willingness to invest that much cash into F1 anymore. Same goes for Peugeot (having financial difficulties). Citroen was never a possibility, more of a fantasy of mine, while Chevrolet will probably stick to NASCAR, IndyCar, GrandAm and GT Racing since it pays off a great deal for them on the american market.

        I’m gonna go wild here and make a prediction: Honda in 2014, Porsche in 2015, BMW 2016. :)

        • DC (@dujedcv) said on 5th February 2013, 11:49

          @tony031r – Remember what happened previous 2 times they decided to equalize F1 and prototypes: 72 – it worked for only 2 year and only Ferrari and Matra were in; 1991 – 1 great season and then everything fell apart.

          Chevy – Grand Am and ALMS just got merged so they might jump to P1 but it is unlikely that they will build V6 turbo.

          Toyota – after ditching very successful WRC and Le Mans effort they have spent 8 years trying to succeed in F1. Many millions later all they got were two seasons as a strong midfielder and a lot of disappointment. So it is very unlikely that their bosses will allow a second try.

          And Porsche might team up with someone to create 80s – like thing (maybe McLaren if Mercedes ditches them)

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