Hamilton: Alonso’s “the guy I want to beat”

F1 Fanatic round-up

Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton, Silverstone, 2012In the round-up: Lewis Hamilton singles out Fernando Alonso as the rival he is most interested in beating.

Links

Your daily digest of F1 news, views, features and more.

Forget Button, Alonso is the one I really have to beat (Daily Mail)

Lewis Hamilton: “The rivalry between me and Fernando excites me more [than with Button]. He?s the guy I want to beat. You also want to beat Seb [Vettel], as they are the ones with most titles. But Alonso’s the fastest driver I can see. He?s also one of the most experienced. Anyone would struggle to beat him.”

Webber bets he’ll be back on F1 track next year (The Sydney Morning Herald)

“‘No, I’m not,’ he said emphatically when asked if he were going into this season thinking or planning that it will be his last as a Formula One driver.”

Alonso: 2014 car can’t be distraction (Autosport)

“The only thing that has changed for next year is that if you get to the middle of the championship and you see you have a big, big difference on the negative side then you need to work on next year’s car.”

Michael Schumacher rules out TV pundit role (ESPN)

“Things move so fast in Formula One that I’m already actually a long way off the pace. Secondly, I would again be away from my family so I might as well be driving…”

Checo gets set to pen the next chapter in Mexican F1 racing history (McLaren)

“So far, there have only ever been six Mexican Formula 1 drivers: Checo himself; Esteban Gutierrez, who’ll make his Formula 1 debut next weekend in the Sauber that Checo would have been driving had McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh not snapped him up last autumn; the Rodriguez brothers, Pedro and Ricardo; Hector Rebaque; and Moises Solana.”

Fangio’s Fitness Regimen (F1 Speedwriter)

“Blessed with a naturally slow metabolism, as evidenced by his resting heart rate of 44 beats per minute (as opposed to the norm of 72bpm), Juan had the endurance capacity of a man half his age, and he worked hard to preserve it.”

Tweets

Comment of the day

@Slr hopes Mercedes don’t make the same mistake BMW did five years ago:

I hope that if Mercedes actually turn out to have a real chance of winning the championship by the end of this season, they actually try to win it this year, rather than put all focus on 2014.

I remember when BMW wanted to focus on 2009, but Kubica still had a chance of winning the championship by the penultimate round in 2008, but the team still decided to focus on 2009. They had a poor end to 2008 and 2009 then turned out to be BMW?s worst season in their short time in Formula One.

Should Mercedes find themselves in a similar position this year, they really must take advantage of the opportunity because it may turn out to be their last, in spite of all of these people they have brought into the team.
@Slr

From the forum

Happy birthday!

No F1 Fanatic birthdays today.

If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

Happy birthday to former F1 racer Derek Daly who is 60 today.

Daly peaked with two fourth places for Tyrrell in 1980 but is better remembered for incurring the wrath of team principal Ken Tyrrell by eliminating team mate Jean-Pierre Jarier and several others in this destructive crash at the start of that year’s Monaco Grand Prix:

Advert | Go Ad-free

264 comments on Hamilton: Alonso’s “the guy I want to beat”

1 2 3
  1. Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 11th March 2013, 0:07

    Shame that, because I’m expecting Alonso to lose out to Vettel yet again. You must set your sights higher Lewis…

    • electrolite (@electrolite) said on 11th March 2013, 0:13

      He’s the guy I want to beat. You also want to beat Seb [Vettel], as they are the ones with most titles

    • Nick.UK (@) said on 11th March 2013, 0:37

      Depends how you look at it, if he aims to beat Alonso and succeeds, who’s to say he won’t beat Vettel in the process… Who’s to say Vettel will be ahead at any point for that matter? It wasn’t until his car improved vastly in the latter parts of the 2012 season that he starting winning again with any regularity; 1 solitary win until round 14 remember! He was lucky Grosjean whiped Alonso out in Spa otherwise Lewis’s comment would be right on target, even by your standards.

      • David-A (@david-a) said on 11th March 2013, 0:53

        @nick-uk – But it doesn’t matter that he won 1 in 14. It’s like a United fan boasting that they had Chelsea beaten at 2-0 with an hour played. The season was 20 races long (not 14), and Vettel won more races than anyone else.

        And if you say Vettel beat Alonso because of Grosjean, but you can’t only isolate 1 piece of luck over a season.

        Nevertheless, there is no 100% guarantee Vettel will be ahead at any point in the season.

        • Nomore (@nomore) said on 11th March 2013, 10:16

          In which race Vettel was involved in a racing accident that it’s not his fault and he got a DNF??

          p.s reliability it’s not luck.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 11th March 2013, 10:27

            @nomore

            In which race Vettel was involved in a racing accident that it’s not his fault and he got a DNF??

            Malaysia for one, which wasn’t a DNF per se, but cost him points, and was deemed by the stewards, and both drivers involved to be Karthikeyan’s fault.

            p.s reliability it’s not luck.

            I didn’t see any evidence from you to suggest that drivers are responsible for mechanical failures. If they were, and car speed was the only determinant for how good a car was, then both Hamilton and Button underperformed massively in 2012.

          • Nomore (@nomore) said on 11th March 2013, 10:54

            @david-a
            agree in Malaysia Vettel was unlucky.
            Do you agree that we give the 6th place to Vettel in Malaysia (qualy result), and we give the 6 and 7 place to Alonso (qualy result) In Spa and Japan? This will be fair enough to eliminate the unlucky accident that they had both.

            Reliability it’s not driver responsibility, it’s a engineering responsibility…so it’s not luck.
            i can’t accept a driver that says: “I am unlucky because my car broke up”.
            or if we accept that then we should accept also this : “I am tremendously lucky because my car is so fast”…but i didn’t hear any driver says that.
            We should accept both of them or neither of them.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 11th March 2013, 11:17

            @nomore – Indeed, reliability is down to the engineers. I am pleased by you stating that:

            We should accept both of them or neither of them

            Which I think is a fair point.

            With regards to cancelling bad luck, it is difficult to determine the exact points lost, since the incidents (in Alonso’s case) happened at the start, and Vettel was P4 at the time of his. But then it means that discussing the hypotheticals, while a bit pointless, can also be interesting :)

          • Nomore (@nomore) said on 11th March 2013, 12:45

            @david-a

            me too agree that is difficult to determine the exact point loose.

            Yes Vettel was 4thi know but even without the accident he could have finish 11th or higher than 4th…we don’t know everything could have happened. The same with Alonso he was 4th when Grosejan was flying in his cockpit but he could have had a 0 point even without the accidents in SPA and Japan…everything could have happened

            Thats why i took the start point as a fair point. Becuase we know for certain that they started in those positions. In my opinion is the most fairly opinion but anyway i accept and respect others opinion as well…

            Now it’s pointless to discuss for the 2012 standing…it’s not that the FIA will change the results based on this discussions…:)
            We have a 2013 sseason that will start soon and let’s enjoy…anyway i’m not a anti Vettel or i hate him…he is my 4th best driver in the world, i just think Alonso is better…and if Vettel comes in Ferrari i will be one of his bigger fans..:) …cheers

      • @nick-uk – I think Dizzy-A’s already pretty much hit the nail on the head, but yes I’d expect that Red Bull will maintain their advantage over Ferrari that they have enjoyed since 2009 (on average). That is no guarantee of course though so I’m by no means discounting the fact Alonso may trump Vettel, and in actual fact the comment was a joking dig at Hamilton’s love afair for Alonso rather than any foresighted prediction and without sinsiterial intent!

    • Brace (@brace) said on 11th March 2013, 0:55

      So most of team principals regard Alonso as the best driver at the moment, most F1 drivers regard Alonso as the best driver at the moment, most F1 pundits, journalists, bloggers etc regard him as the best driver at the moment, but here comes unbiased @vettel1 to try to rub it in how his man Vettel is the current WDC, because being a humble and gracious winner is Vettel’s and Red Bull’s way, eh?

      By your logic of pure statistics, the most exciting partnership in F1 would probably include Button and Vettel, not Lewis and Alonso.

      Too bad it could take them over a half a season before either is satisfied with a car and it actually becomes a rivalry worth getting excited about. :)

      Don’t mind me having a need to reply to your comment, but it seems you are having a need to talk Alonso down, because nobody seems to be willing to talk Vettel up, and that’s not cool. Talk Vettel up as much as you want, but talking others down will only get people to talk your driver down.

      • Jason (@jason12) said on 11th March 2013, 8:50

        @brace
        Well said mate.

      • Mads (@mads) said on 11th March 2013, 12:35

        @brace

        Talk Vettel up as much as you want, but talking others down will only get people to talk your driver down.

        That is simply just a result of different views.
        I don’t think its a case of talking your driver up and the other drivers down.
        I think the reason we are fans of the driver we are is because we have an opinion and a perspective on F1, its teams and its drivers etc.
        Just because some people think that Alonso is the greatest thing since sliced bread, doesn’t mean that someone who doesn’t share that view is talking him down. It just means that his perspective and opinion is different. And just because you are in a minority doesn’t mean you should just shut up. As long no one can truthfully say that they have a 100% accurate measurement of all the drivers skill as F1 drivers, then one opinion can be as good as any other.

      • @brace

        So most of team principals regard Alonso as the best driver at the moment, most F1 drivers regard Alonso as the best driver at the moment, most F1 pundits, journalists, bloggers etc regard him as the best driver at the moment

        …as nothing more than an opinion. There is no statistical evidence to suggest one is better than the other – in fact the statistical evidence is if anything in Vettel’s favour. Simply though there is no way to say for sure “he is the best”, so bringing that up is almost pointless.

        What is relevant though is beating someone that will reflect well upon your season – as I’ve said, Jules Bianchi might well be the best driver, but setting that as your target would mean you have terribly low aspirations. So in essence what I am saying is (jokingly) he should be targeting to beat the guy that has won the most recently, which is of course Vettel.

        By your logic of pure statistics, the most exciting partnership in F1 would probably include Button and Vettel, not Lewis and Alonso.

        Logic and excitement do not go hand in hand, so that is a rather senseless comment. Maldonado is exiting and unpredictable, but would most want him in their driver line-up (in his past guise at least)? As I have said, statistics don’t tell the whole story: Hamilton of course was much better than Button last year than the points statistics suggest, which is ironically supported by the qualifying statistics.

        nobody seems to be willing to talk Vettel up, and that’s not cool.

        No, I talk him up because he deserves more recognition than he gets. The arguments against his success simply change when they are disproved: first it was he is too crash/mistake prone, then he went out and had a near faultless 2011 season. Then it was he can’t race, which he answered with brilliant performances from in the pack in Spa, Abu Dhabi and Brazil. And then we have the old chestnut of he can’t win without the fastest car, which was rubbished last season when he beat both McLaren drivers.

        I respect Alonso immensely and I put his interests first come the end of the 2012 season – he drove brilliantly. But then saying that Vettel didn’t is ridiculous.

      • M Dickens (@sgt-pepper) said on 11th March 2013, 18:28

        (@brace) +1, nicely said.

    • That my friend , won’t happen every time

      • Blackmamba (@blackmamba) said on 11th March 2013, 1:21

        @Dizzy-A
        Indeed Vettel is the 3 time world champion, but you give him way too much credit. Except for one performance in a torro rosso, there is nothing exceptional about his driving skills. A lot of credit to the car. I look at it this way, if Alonso had been his team mate during that time, Vettel would not be 3 time world champion!

        • petebaldwin (@petebaldwin) said on 11th March 2013, 9:55

          Vettel has proven several times that he is one of the best drivers in the field. If he isn’t quick, what does that say about Webber who has been blown away by Vettel season after season? Sadly, unless Vettel moves to the same team as Alonso or Hamilton, no-one will ever accept that he is likely as fast as both of them.

          Also probably worth pointing out that I’m a British Hamilton fan and have to turn the TV off when Vettel wins before he does that bloody finger thing… Despite that, you have to look at the facts – what evidence is there to show that Vettel isn’t on pace with Alonso and Hamilton?

          • @petebaldwin – thank you, there are non-delusional people in the world. Of course you don’t have to like Vettel (I don’t like Alonso) but you do have to respect the fact he has been a worthy world champion, and he has written his name in the history books. Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso are all great drivers, I just wish people would realise this…

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 11th March 2013, 11:52

          @blackmamba

          For a start, he finished that year in the STR with 35 points, not 10. His maiden win was in the middle of a run of 5 consecutive top sixes. His teammate, and no STR driver since has managed even one. Vettel beat numerous equal or faster cars to being top 8 in the championship- Bourdais (scoring 9 times as many points), both Toyotas, Red Bulls, Williams and a Renault. He’s also the only driver to even pass (and with flying colours, I might add), RBR’s infamously harsh driver scheme.

          And if there’s nothing exceptional about his driving for Red Bull, then how bad must this Mark Webber be? The guy that qualified a Jaguar and a 2006 Williams-Cosworth on the front row? Who has dominated any season of F1 like Vettel in 2011, but isn’t considered to be one of the best of their generation? Schumacher, Clark, Prost? Even if one says “Mansell” (and that may be considered harsh on the Brit), Vettel’s career path more closely correlates with the former three, as well as Alonso, Hamilton, Piquet or Senna. I.e. 1. driver enters sport at young age for midfield or worse team (except Clark/Hamilton) > impresses with string of great performacnes > earns slot at faster team > duly wins championships. All a big coincidence?

          And as for “if Alonso had been his team mate during that time, Vettel would not be 3 time world champion!”, how about “if Raikkonen had been Alonso’s team mate during 2005 and/or 2006, Alonso would not be 2 time world champion!”. Pointless, crass disrespect for drivers winning the championship at the so-called elite level of motorsport.

        • @blackmamba – you’re right, he may only have been a two-time champion :/

    • Todfod (@todfod) said on 11th March 2013, 4:48

      I’m expecting Alonso to lose out to Vettel yet again

      Surely, you mean Alonso’s going to lose to Newey again.

      • David-A (@david-a) said on 11th March 2013, 4:59

        Yawn, mudslinging again. Pat Fry (and the rest of Ferrari) lost out to Adrian Newey in the constructor’s championship. Alonso lost out to Vettel in the driver’s championship. So Max’s sentence wasn’t incorrect, unless we want to start going through history and rewriting who lost out to who in the titles.

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 11th March 2013, 5:00

          However, Max Jacobson probably didn’t see the part about Hamilton aiming to beat Vettel too, which Electrolite kindly pointed to.

          • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 11th March 2013, 7:32

            @david-a – yes I did, I immediately suspected that comment would be another one of love-lust between Alonso and Hamilton, so thanks for the clarification @electrolite.

            I think one gets the idea of what I’m tying to say though: who cares who you beat in the process, surely the only goal is to win outright? Be that beating Vettel or Alonso or anyone else is irrelevant, so my point is really this just looks like another pathetic attempt at mind games.

        • Todfod (@todfod) said on 11th March 2013, 6:59

          @david-a . Max missed the point of where Hamilton wanted to beat the best driver on the grid… not the best car. Hence the clarification

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 11th March 2013, 7:17

            @todfod – Lewis saying he wants to beat Alonso is fine, if that’s the way he sees and says it. But Alonso didn’t lose out to Newey, as you said. He lost out to Vettel. The champion, Vettel, drove the WCC winning car, which isn’t exactly uncommon across F1 history.

          • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 11th March 2013, 7:36

            @todfod – the two are intrinsically related though in terms of overall championship position. Jules Bianchi might actually be the best driver in the world, but targeting to beat him in a Marussia isn’t going to do you any favours.

      • Mads (@mads) said on 11th March 2013, 12:38

        @todfod
        Is Alonso’s PR machine really working that well? wow.

    • puneeth Bharath (@puneethvb) said on 11th March 2013, 4:59

      @Vettel1

      ‘The rivalry between me and Fernando excites me more [than with Button],’ said Hamilton. ‘He’s the guy I want to beat. You also want to beat Seb, as they are the ones with most titles. But Alonso’s the fastest driver I can see. He’s also one of the most experienced. Anyone would struggle to beat him.”

      This is what Hamilton said, so he thinks Alonso is faster than Seb … and he certainly is nt the only one thinking so…

      • firstLapNutcaseGrosjean (@) said on 11th March 2013, 11:51

        +1

      • @puneethvb – I have seen that now, as it was kindly pointed out to me. To the actual meaning of my comment now though, what is there actually to suggest Alonso is better than Vettel? We have no direct comparison, so it is purely speculation. I have no problem with anyone thinking Alonso is better as I would say the same myself, but Hamilton’s comment is bordering on ridiculous, as I have explained here. You don’t beat the driver, you beat the driver/car pairing, so that comment is senseless especially because we don’t yet know who’s quickest.

        I don’t quite understand why everyone has taken what was a rather light-hearted comment so seriously though!

        • puneeth Bharath (@puneethvb) said on 12th March 2013, 8:45

          @vettel1

          I agree with you that there is nothing concrete to suggest Alonso is better than vettel or vice versa. But You and I and everyone else for that matter have thier own opinion on who is the best..If Lewis thinks Alonso is the best and he wants to beat alonso.. what’s wrong with it..
          And by your own logic, what’s there to suggest Alonso is gonna lose out to vettel again this year? vettel could very well finish behind both Fernando and Lewis…

    • GeorgeTuk (@georgetuk) said on 11th March 2013, 12:25

      One comedy comment and whole comments section is on fire!

      Chill out guys was joke (well thats how I read it!)

  2. Daniel (@collettdumbletonhall) said on 11th March 2013, 0:08

    Why not focus on the guy who usually finishes first? Vettel.

    • ben (@dubaemon) said on 11th March 2013, 0:33

      because a merc cannot be as quick as a RB, Lewis is already ambitious to beat alonso who he could not beat in an faster car (with team troubles). Now he probably will drive a slower car with reliability issues, to say he ll beat vettel would be mad.

    • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 11th March 2013, 0:56

      Why not focus on the guy who usually finishes first? Vettel.

      Because “usually” doesn’t mean always. And while Vettel dominates in a good car, he has to work pretty hard when his car is similar to everyone else’s. Alonso, on the other hand, car get great results with a poor car, and so should be much more of a threat if his car is on par with everyone else rather than lagging behind.

      • Jon Sandor (@jonsan) said on 11th March 2013, 1:25

        while Vettel dominates in a good car, he has to work pretty hard when his car is similar to everyone else’s.

        If you pay close attention to the results from last year, you’ll see that Vettel in a poor car did just as well as Alonso in a poor car.

        Alonso, on the other hand, car get great results with a poor car, and so should be much more of a threat if his car is on par with everyone else rather than lagging behind

        So was the MP4-22 a poor car, in your opinion? Maybe it was – after all, Alonso did “lag behind” Hamilton in qualifying. Or maybe its time people woke up t the fact that Alonso is distinctly mediocre at qualifying and that claims for the poorness of his car based on his qualifying pace are baseless.

        • OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 11th March 2013, 2:10

          @jonsan +1. And please, people: Wake up at the fact that Alonso (by himself) claimed last year, all year long, that the Ferrari was a dog and the Red Bull a masterpiece… when both cars had their ups and downs, and Vettel’s 3rd championship was fair and well won. Some people still believe Vettel reaffirmed his third championship in some kind of “automatic-drive” Remember Abu Dhabi please. And Brazil, getting 6th with a damaged car.

          • Brace (@brace) said on 11th March 2013, 3:44

            @omarr-pepper
            Only thing that those two races prove is that Vettel is still weak in racing in the middle of the pack and that his car was much faster than anything except McLaren perhaps, since he had no problem lapping faster than other cars even with all that damage on the sidepod.

          • Nomore (@nomore) said on 11th March 2013, 10:27

            “Wake up at the fact that Alonso (by himself) claimed last year, all year long, that the Ferrari was a dog and the Red Bull a masterpiece”

            @omarr-pepper
            it’s not that Alonso claimed…this was unfortunately (because im a die hard Ferrari fan) the truth. Ferrari wasn’t a winning championship car, Red Bull was.

            Or you are sopossing that Alonso says something and Team bosses and fans all over the world are so blind that they believe him in everything??
            it’s not just because Alonso says that, it’s the truth and hard to admit by a Ferrari fan like me..:(

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 11th March 2013, 10:37

            @brace – Weak isn’t the word I’d use. He wasn’t 100% perfect, but still ground out an excellent result and a decent one given the circumstances and pressure he was under. And did it again in Belgium too.

          • @brace

            Only thing that those two races prove is that Vettel is still weak in racing in the middle of the pack and that his car was much faster than anything

            No, it proved he can race through a pack brilliantly despite the occasional piece of rustiness after haven’t having had to overtake anyone the previous 3 races (bar Webber at turn 1). The car was hardly “much faster” – the race pace of the top guys was pretty close (Vettel was on a new set of soft tyres, yet Alonso was only a tenth slower). Although Belgium and in particular Brazil are perfectly suitable examples of his ability to race through a pack also.

            As for the notion that Alonso had a terrible car and Vettel had a rocketship, don’t be ridiculous. The Ferrari was bad in the first four rounds (although not in the wet) and that reflected in the results (5th, 1st, 9th & 7th). After the Mugello test it was a vastly improved car though, and regularly on the pace of or faster than the Red Bull during the mid-season. Towards the end it was still strong, but the Red Bull was very good from Singpaore to Austin, and this reflected in Vettel’s results (4 wins and a second place). In Brazil though McLaren had built on their closing down of RBR in Austin to re-take the crown of fastest.

            So Alonso was just living in a fanciful world in which he is able to drag a crap car to nearly winning a title, which is complete nonsense. It was the third fastest car overall (and wasn’t exactly flattered by Alonso’s qualifying, which isn’t as strong as Vettel’s or Hamilton’s) and one could argue the second best car in the end, when reliability and consistency are taken into account (which is where they finished duly in the constructor’s championship). The Red Bull was second fastest overall, which is supported from the fact Webber wasn’t on the pace of Vettel.

            So both of them did a very good job with what they had, and nobody can dispute that or take that away from them.

        • Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 11th March 2013, 3:43

          If you pay close attention to the results from last year, you’ll see that Vettel in a poor car did just as well as Alonso in a poor car.

          Vettel never had a truly bad car the way Alonso did. He had a car that was comparable to the rest of the field, but Alonso was stuck with a car the looked nigh on impossible to drive at times.

          So was the MP4-22 a poor car, in your opinion? Maybe it was – after all, Alonso did “lag behind” Hamilton in qualifying. Or maybe its time people woke up t the fact that Alonso is distinctly mediocre at qualifying and that claims for the poorness of his car based on his qualifying pace are baseless.

          Or perhaps I didn’t think that Alonso’s invidiual qualifying performances from five years ago were all that relevant when comparing the race performances of a completely different car relative to everyone else.

          • Vettel never had a truly bad car the way Alonso did.

            You’re seeing whatever you wish to see. Vettel started from fifth place on average last year, while Alonso started from sixth place on average. Most of the difference in starting position is attributable to the fact that Alonso is not good a qualifying (and made numerous qualifying blunders last year) while Vettel is probably the best qualifier in F1 today.

            perhaps I didn’t think that Alonso’s invidiual qualifying performances from five years ago were all that relevant

            Then I encourage you to take a closer look at his qualifying performances from last year, because they were very, very poor. In particular you ought to pay attention to how frequently he got slower between the second and the third qualifying sessions.

        • Funkyf1 (@funkyf1) said on 11th March 2013, 7:59

          While we are all bashing on about the Ferrari being this and Mclaren being that, who’s the best qualifier and who’s the best racer. We seem to be forgetting that cars are set up differently, that choice be made by the driver. These drivers you are speaking of are all experienced enough to decide what’s best for them. Before you degrade a drivers qualifying performance I think you compare it against their race craft. After all you know the saying “a tradesman is only as good as the tools he works with”. Some have better tools than others.

          • petebaldwin (@petebaldwin) said on 11th March 2013, 10:19

            I’m fairly sure the saying is “A good workman never blames his tools….”

          • Seven times last season Alonso cut slower lap times in Q3 then in Q2. (Excluding results from wet qualifying sessions) . That sort of result cannot be attributed to a slow car. It’s just poor qualifying. If he had merely maintained his speed from one session to the next he’d be triple WDC today.

      • ScuderiaVincero (@scuderiavincero) said on 11th March 2013, 4:32

        Because “usually” doesn’t mean always. And while Vettel dominates in a good car, he has to work pretty hard when his car is similar to everyone else’s. Alonso, on the other hand, car get great results with a poor car, and so should be much more of a threat if his car is on par with everyone else rather than lagging behind.

        This just sums up Alonso nicely.

      • Daniel (@collettdumbletonhall) said on 11th March 2013, 19:25

        Well I know what ‘usually’ means but thanks for the explanation. Alonso doesn’t always perform brilliantly, infact I would say he was only as good as Vettel in all honesty. On this website there is a lot said against Vettel that simply isn’t true because he finds himself in the best car most of the time, if that makes him any less of a driver.

    • Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 11th March 2013, 0:59

      @collettdumbletonhall better to focus on the guy that takes most out of a car: Alonso.

      Hamilton’s very vocal about Vettel getting the best car (as seen on Top Gear a couple of weeks ago, for instance), he probably sees Alonso as the guy to follow… and the guy to beat.

      • Jon Sandor (@jonsan) said on 11th March 2013, 1:33

        Hamilton is very vocal about a lot of things. He’s a good driver, but really need’s to work on his emotional maturity. The press love him because he says controversial stuff, like these jibes at Vettel and Button.

        • F1_Americana (@f1americana) said on 11th March 2013, 2:35

          Can you pay tribute to another driver without taking “jibes” at others? I thinks so.

        • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 11th March 2013, 4:02

          @jonsan

          If you pay close attention to the results from last year, you’ll see that Vettel in a poor car did just as well as Alonso in a poor car.

          So you compare how poor the F2012 was in the first four races of the season, to the RB8 at any point?

          Laughable.

          • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 11th March 2013, 4:04

            So was the MP4-22 a poor car, in your opinion? Maybe it was – after all, Alonso did “lag behind” Hamilton in qualifying. Or maybe its time people woke up t the fact that Alonso is distinctly mediocre at qualifying and that claims for the poorness of his car based on his qualifying pace are baseless.

            Alonso and Hamilton were equal in qualifying in 2007. Likewise, Alonso has a better % record in out-qualifying teammates than either Lewis or Seb, funnily enough.

          • @kingshark

            So you compare how poor the F2012 was in the first four races of the season, to the RB8 at any point?

            That says it all: people base their whole opinion of the F2012 on the first four races and the RB8 on the Asia leg. That’s just as laughable.

          • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 11th March 2013, 19:19

            @vettel1
            No one is basing the F2012 based on the first four races alone, most people agree that it was the 3rd-4th fastest car overall throughout the season.

            Likewise, how can you claim that everyone based their opinion on the RB8 from the Asia leg alone, when literally everyone agrees the the MP4-27 was the fastest car?

            The undisputed point I was trying to make is that Vettel never drove a car anywhere near as bad as Alonso did (during the first four races) at any point in 2012.

            Races where Red Bull were quicker vs Races where Ferrari was quicker.

            Australia – Red Bull
            Malaysia – Ferrari
            China – Red Bull
            Bahrain – Red Bull
            Spain – Ferrari
            Monaco – Red Bull
            Canada – Equals
            Europe – Red Bull
            Britain – Equals
            Germany – Equals
            Hungary – Red Bull
            Belgium – Unknown
            Italy – Ferrari
            Singapore – Red Bull
            Japan – Red Bull
            Korea – Red Bull
            India – Red Bull
            Abu Dhabi – Red Bull
            USA – Red Bull
            Brazil – Red Bull

            Oh yeah, the Ferrari was definitely in the same league, alright. *sarcasm*

          • @kingshark – so essentially what you are then saying is that the Ferrari was 3rd fastest and the Red Bull 2nd? Hardly a cavernous gap, is it?

            Also, in a few of those events (most noteably in Valencia) Red Bull lost points when they were ahead, which accounts for some of the deficit. A 37 point swing in Alonso’s favour is quite significant, more so than *possible* 3rd at Spa. I don’t count Japan as that was equally, if not more, Alonso’s fault than Kimi’s.

            That’s arguing over semantics though. My main point is that Alonso doesn’t magically drag pace out of that Ferrari that others couldn’t, in fact I’d place my money on Vettel to have the better of Alonso in qualifying at least if they were in the same car.

          • F1fanNL (@) said on 12th March 2013, 0:10

            @kingshark

            Likewise, Alonso has a better % record in out-qualifying teammates than either Lewis or Seb, funnily enough.

            Hahahaha. Yes, because Fisichella, Piquet jr and Grosjean (in his first F1 attempt) were such spectacular qualifiers. And don’t even get me started on the poor form Massa has been in from Malaysia 2010 to the Italian GP of 2012.
            And lets not forget that when Massa finally rediscovered his mojo he qualified in front of the self-proclaimed F1 God Alonso.

            Oh, and remember Trulli? A man who was known for great qualifying laps. Alonso struggled to outscore him so Briatore sent him packing. I wonder what would have been if Trulli hadn’t been obstructed and bullied out of that Renault by Briatore.

            You are just like Alonso. First he had a deficit of 1.2 seconds at the beginning of the 2012 season. Then all of a sudden, halfway through the season, he claims it was 1.5 seconds and not too long ago I heard him say it was 2 seconds. He’s like those fishermen who tell great tales about the size of fish they caught. When it comes down to it you know half of the story is absolute grade-A equine poopoo.
            But hey, if you want to believe everything he says be my guest.

          • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 12th March 2013, 3:29

            @f1fanNl

            Hahahaha. Yes, because Fisichella, Piquet jr and Grosjean (in his first F1 attempt) were such spectacular qualifiers.

            Fisichella easily beat every teammate he had until he met Alonso, this includes the likes of Button and Ralf Schumacher.

            Discrediting Alonso’s teammates is not a good thing to do. Going by your logic, Vettel has only proven himself to be better than Webber, Liuzzi and Boudrais. Not the most impressive list.

            And don’t even get me started on the poor form Massa has been in from Malaysia 2010 to the Italian GP of 2012.

            Was he really that poor, or did Alonso make him look poor?

            Even after that, Alonso still out-qualified Massa in Singapore, Japan, Korea, India, and Abu Dhabi. Massa only out-qualified him in USA and Brazil.

            Oh, and remember Trulli? A man who was known for great qualifying laps. Alonso struggled to outscore him so Briatore sent him packing. I wonder what would have been if Trulli hadn’t been obstructed and bullied out of that Renault by Briatore.

            LMAO.
            Alonso vs. Trulli respectively during their stint together with Renault, from Australia 2003 to Italy 2004.
            Points: 101 vs 80
            Wins: 1 vs 1
            Podiums: 8 vs 3

            Pathetic how you are desperately trying to make up any lies to make it seem as if Alonso has always been poor against good teammates.

            Likewise, Alonso was beating Trulli at the age of 22. It’s not as if he was the defending WDC losing against Massa, lol. Just in case you didn’t get the sarcasm, I’m talking about Kimi.

            You are just like Alonso.

            What an insult. I’m just like one of the best drivers in the world today.

            First he had a deficit of 1.2 seconds at the beginning of the 2012 season.

            Which is entirely correct looking at the lap times in Melbourne.

            Then all of a sudden, halfway through the season, he claims it was 1.5 seconds and not too long ago I heard him say it was 2 seconds.

            How do I know you’re not pulling this from your rear? Show me a reliable source or interview where he said that ( BTW, that does not include the daily fail).

            But hey, if you want to believe everything he says be my guest.

            If you want to believe that the Red Bull is really no better than the Ferrari in 2012, and Vettel is a far superior driver, be my guest!

          • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 12th March 2013, 3:34

            @vettel1

            Also, in a few of those events (most noteably in Valencia) Red Bull lost points when they were ahead, which accounts for some of the deficit. A 37 point swing in Alonso’s favour is quite significant, more so than *possible* 3rd at Spa.

            Given that Vettel finished 2nd in Spa, and Alonso qualified well ahead of him, with Ferrari’s relatively good tyre wear Alonso probably would’ve finished ahead of Vettel. That’s 18 points.
            Monza, where he was fastest all weekend long, he had an anti-roll bar failure in Q3. Had he won, gained another 10 points.

            28 points in total lost.

            My point is that, even with misfortunes, Alonso didn’t lose that much more than Vettel, despite driving a significantly worse car.

            The only times when Ferrari and Red Bull were about equal were Monaco (being generous), Canada, Great Britain and Germany. On all these occasions, Alonso out-classed Vettel. Only time he was beaten was Canada, and that was only because of strategy.

            This simply cannot be a coincidence IMO.

          • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 12th March 2013, 7:43

            @kingshark – I’m merely stressing the fact that looking at bare statistics gives a clouded picture, and listening to Alonso even more so.

          • @kingshark

            If you want to believe that the Red Bull is really no better than the Ferrari in 2012, and Vettel is a far superior driver, be my guest!

            Thing is, not many people do! I for one voted Alonso as the best driver of 2012. However, what I don’t agree with is when people vastly exaggerate the deficit Alonso overcame – the Red Bull and Ferrari were closer for the large part than most people like to believe. You can hardly argue Alonso made himself out as a god, and an alarming number of people bought it…

          • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 12th March 2013, 22:16

            @vettel1

            Thing is, not many people do!

            I agree that by many people, Vettel is underrated. However, F1FanNL isn’t one of them, you can look through his previous posts for that.

            You can hardly argue Alonso made himself out as a god, and an alarming number of people bought it…

            That’s true, and kind of funny actually. He’s good at mindgames, isn’t he? ;-)

          • @kingshark

            He’s good at mindgames, isn’t he?

            Well that all depend on your perspective really – it didn’t appear to have much of an effect on Vettel! ;)

          • F1fanNL (@) said on 14th March 2013, 0:28

            @kingshark

            Fisichella easily beat every teammate he had until he met Alonso, this includes the likes of Button and Ralf Schumacher.

            Discrediting Alonso’s teammates is not a good thing to do. Going by your logic, Vettel has only proven himself to be better than Webber, Liuzzi and Boudrais. Not the most impressive list.

            I consider Liuzzi and Bourdais to be of the same quality as Fisichella and Ralf Schumacher. Button is like Webber.
            And I was talking about qualifying. None of Alonso’s teammates were/are good in qualifying. The only really good qualifying team mate he got was Hamilton. And we all know how that went.
            But I’m sure you’re one of the few who believe Alonso was brought into McLaren for an anual fee of about 35 million to play second fiddle to a rookie.

            Was he really that poor, or did Alonso make him look poor?

            He really was that poor. Or did you miss the hundreds of news articles talking about Massa’s replacement and the various Ferrari statements which implied that Massa needed to get his act together fast to retain his seat.

            Massa only out-qualified him in USA and Brazil.

            Wait,.. So the self-proclaimed God of F1 can be beaten? In any case. We all agreed that Massa was the Massa we saw in 2008. And that’s the Massa who can keep up and be faster than Alonso.

            Alonso vs. Trulli respectively during their stint together with Renault, from Australia 2003 to Italy 2004.
            Points: 101 vs 80
            Wins: 1 vs 1
            Podiums: 8 vs 3

            Thanks for proving my point. And do you remember the points tally BEFORE Trulli and Briatore started falling out? Trulli was ahead of Alonso by some margin.

            Likewise, Alonso was beating Trulli at the age of 22. It’s not as if he was the defending WDC losing against Massa

            You mean, like he was several years later when he lost to a rookie Hamilton?

            How do I know you’re not pulling this from your rear? Show me a reliable source or interview where he said that

            For a fan of Alonso you seem to keep very little track of what he says and does. I’m not gonna post a source here, a quick google search can give you all you need.

            If you want to believe that the Red Bull is really no better than the Ferrari in 2012, and Vettel is a far superior driver, be my guest!

            Where did I say that? In my opinion the Red Bull was the faster car but the reliability issues it suffered put it on equal footing with the Ferrari. And yes, I do believe Vettel is the better driver but not far superior. There’s no such thing as a far superior driver in F1. There’s a few tenths between them at best.

          • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 14th March 2013, 4:00

            @f1fanNL

            I consider Liuzzi and Bourdais to be of the same quality as Fisichella and Ralf Schumacher. Button is like Webber.

            Seriously? That is delusional. Two proven race winners who both shone in inferior machinry, in the same league as Liuzzi and Boudrais? Really?

            And I was talking about qualifying. None of Alonso’s teammates were/are good in qualifying. The only really good qualifying team mate he got was Hamilton. And we all know how that went.

            Trulli was also a great qualifier, easily in the same league as Webber. Massa too is a great driver, contradictory to popular beliefs, wasn’t as bad as some proclaim in 2010-2012; Alonso made him look like a second fiddle; just like Schumacher did in 2006. The only driver who was inferior to Massa during his stint with Ferrari, was Raikkonen.

            But I’m sure you’re one of the few who believe Alonso was brought into McLaren for an anual fee of about 35 million to play second fiddle to a rookie.

            Nope, but Hamilton is a much better driver than anyone Vettel’s ever had to face as a teammate.

            Wait,.. So the self-proclaimed God of F1 can be beaten? In any case. We all agreed that Massa was the Massa we saw in 2008. And that’s the Massa who can keep up and be faster than Alonso.

            Oh, so when Massa is faster than Alonso in USA and Brazil, it’s the end of the world; yet no mention of Webber being faster than Vettel in China, Monaco, and Great Britain? Ignorance, no one will ever beat their teammates throughout the whole season, every single race. Even Rubens Barrichello would outshine Michael Schumacher on a good day. However, Alonso did a better job against his teammate than any other driver did, in 2012, over the past 3 years.

            No one here is calling Alonso a god, but if you wishfully think that Alonso is suddenly going to get his rear whooped by Massa in 2013, like Kimi got in 2008, then you’re setting yourself up for a big disappointment.

            You mean, like he was several years later when he lost to a rookie Hamilton?

            They both tied on 109 points and 4 victories. Hamilton might have been a rookie to F1, but he was much more familiar with McLaren and Bridgestone tyres; which Alonso was new too.

            So what? Hamilton is a much tougher teammate than anyone Vettel’s ever raced in identical equipment before.

            For a fan of Alonso you seem to keep very little track of what he says and does. I’m not gonna post a source here, a quick google search can give you all you need.

            Alonso is a fan of himself, and he does like to give both himself and Lewis a tap on the shoulder every now and then, but I’ve never read a comment of him proclaiming himself to be the King of F1, as you claim.

            Where did I say that? In my opinion the Red Bull was the faster car but the reliability issues it suffered put it on equal footing with the Ferrari.

            Equal footing? This is Red Bull we’re talking about, not McLaren. Other than two alternator failures in Valencia and Monza, Red Bull was bulletproof all season long.

            Pole Positions
            Red Bull – 8
            McLaren – 8
            Ferrari – 2 (both in the wet)

            Victories
            Red Bull – 7
            McLaren 7
            Ferrari – 3

            To suggest that RBR, even with two reliability issues, was on equal footing with Ferrari is delusional. The RB8 had the speed of the MP4-27 and almost-equal reliability to the F2012, and Vettel still nearly threw the title away.

  3. Jon Sandor (@jonsan) said on 11th March 2013, 0:12

    Call me a prude if you must, but the love affair between Hamilton and Alonso is starting to seem a bit disturbing. Can’t they just go live together and stop fawning over each other in public like this?

    • Spinmastermic (@spinmastermic) said on 11th March 2013, 0:32

      Cause Brokeback Paddock is something you can’t just quit

      • F1_Americana (@f1americana) said on 11th March 2013, 0:46

        LOL @spinmastermic. :D

        It seems a lot of people are tired of hearing the mutual respect between Alonso and Hamilton, but I for one am not. I think they’re two great drivers with different skill sets, and with the time that’s passed since 2007, they both feel the freedom to say what they really feel about the other.

        I’m sure deep down inside, Alonso wishes he had the raw speed and overtaking acumen of Hamilton, and Hamilton wishes he had the focus, tenacity and racing brain of Alonso.

        They’re my 2 favorite drivers, and have always been since the acrimonious 2007 season, no matter what color their cars are.

        • Ben (@scuderia29) said on 11th March 2013, 11:31

          I really dont think alonso is wishing to have hamiltons overtaking acumen, look at last year, Alonso’s overtaking was sublime! he was probably the best overtaker in the field last season.

      • OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 11th March 2013, 2:10

        Ha ha ha LOL +1

      • Anonymouse said on 11th March 2013, 6:55

        Why? My new keyboard…..

    • Snafu (@snafu) said on 11th March 2013, 9:45

      hahaha! Exactly!

      We get it…they both admire each other. It was cool last season but it’s getting a little too much now.

    • JerseyF1 (@jerseyf1) said on 11th March 2013, 10:22

      I think their mutual appreciation stems from both of them being insecure about the fact that they are being dominated by Vettel. By sticking together they’re helping prop up each other’s stock and perpetuate the myth that Vettel somehow lucked into all of his success.

      The old myth about Vettel only being good at the front and with a dominant car was well and truly destroyed during 2012 but somehow we still hear the same old garbage. In a way I hope Vettel wins his fourth straight WDC this year just to see if Alonso and Hamilton fans continue spewing the same lines (though I’m probably rooting for Button this year).

      • Klaas (@klaas) said on 11th March 2013, 10:56

        old myth about Vettel only being good at the front and with a dominant car was well and truly destroyed during 2012

        Actually, it was more obvious than ever in 2012. Remember that Vettel got in the title fight only after the summer break when RedBull started to dominate qualifying? It was only when he managed to qualify in the first row Vettel got back to winning.

        • Anonymouse said on 11th March 2013, 13:18

          And this changes what exactly?

          • well he tripped over a few people in the last few rounds. not to mention the runnings with HRT’s through out the season.

          • Anonymouse said on 11th March 2013, 13:51

            @Q85 Wait What?
            Also @Klass had button retired in Spa will there be a change in opinion on your part? I guess not

          • Klaas (@klaas) said on 11th March 2013, 14:14

            Well if you want to play the ‘if and but game': if Grosjean didn’t wipe out Alonso, Hamilton and himself Vettel wouldn’t even got on the podium.

          • Anonymouse said on 11th March 2013, 15:26

            @Klass that’s not what I asked. Do you drive a Dodge Viper?

          • Klaas (@klaas) said on 11th March 2013, 17:46

            Anonymouse Strictly answerin your question: No, it wouldn’t change my opinion.
            If he overtook Button and got the win – then I wouldn’t have had anything to base my first comment on. But since it’s not the case, I consider may argument valid.

          • F1fanNL (@) said on 12th March 2013, 0:18

            @klaas

            Well if you want to play the ‘if and but game’: if Grosjean didn’t wipe out Alonso, Hamilton and himself Vettel wouldn’t even got on the podium.

            And you know this how?

        • @klaas – so what you’re saying is essentially you expected him to be ahead of the McLaren’s despite the fact he lost 37 points to Alonso and 25 to everyone in one hit and had a slower car than the McLaren and arguably at time the Ferrari? You are just supporting the myth by ignoring the facts, which is a dangerous game to be playing.

          Both had great starts to the season with what they had supplied to them; Alonso more so than Vettel but that is not to the detriment of him, rather to the profit of Alonso.

          I should also remind you that he did win a race in Bahrain despite the Lotuses being clearly faster.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 11th March 2013, 17:48

            @vettel1 I agree with all of that. Alonso did great through 2012, but this shouldn’t be used to disrespect another clearly top driver.

          • Klaas (@klaas) said on 11th March 2013, 18:15

            @vettel1 Let’s get back to the original comment I responded to:

            Vettel only being good at the front and with a dominant car

            1. Vettel being only good at the front – Did Vettel ever win a GP in his F1 career when starting out of top 3 (even when the car was competitive enough to win)? – NO – so reality pretty much backs the statement.
            2. Good only with dominant car – out of Vettel’s 5 wins in 2012, 4 were achieved in races where RedBull dominated qualifying and in Singapore he inherited the win from Hamilton’s retirement.
            I rest my case.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 11th March 2013, 18:57

            @klaas

            1. Then one of the two supposed best drivers also hasn’t won from lower than 4th place in his F1 career, but gets a free pass. In addition, to come through the field and achieve a podium, rather than a win does not mean the driver wasn’t “good”.
            2. His five wins weren’t his only “good” performances. His various other podiums fit that mould as well. The RB8 didn’t even dominate qualifying to any greater extent than the MP4-27, which took the same number of poles, and locked out the front row the same number of times.

          • Did Vettel ever win a GP in his F1 career when starting out of top 3 (even when the car was competitive enough to win)?

            At the end of 1991 Ayrton Senna was a three time WDC. He had won 33 races – but only two of those wins did not start on the front row of the grid.

            Senna never won a WDC until he moved to Mclaren and started driving the best car in F1.

            Does any of this mean that Senna was a mediocre driver? It should not, but if you believe what you’re saying then yes, Senna is very overrated.

            Don’t even get me started on that bum Fangio. That loser started on the front row in a staggering 48 out of 52 career races! Percentage wise he has far more pole-to-flag wins than Vettel.Clearly he was a terrible driver – or something.

            Pardon my bluntness, but it’s asinine to try to claim that winning races by starting at the front is the mark of a bad driver.

          • @klaas – rarely does any driver win without external influence in a car that wasn’t the quickest (or thereabouts). @jonsan ‘s example is a particularly good one: nobody doubts Senna’s talent, yet he only won two of his 33 races until his final world championship from outside the top 2.

            I think it’s actually the opposite: it’s the hallmark of a great driver that he can always maximise the qualifying potential of a car when it’s good enough to win, and you can’t argue against the fact qualifying well makes a driver good. So I don’t accept that argument at all.

            And besides, does pit lane to podium ring any bells? Even the mighty Alonso hasn’t done that…

          • Klaas (@klaas) said on 12th March 2013, 7:41

            @david-a, @vettel1 @jonsan
            Until now Vettel has checked all the boxes needed for the original theory to confirm itself. In Fangio’s era things were totally different, there, the driver made almost all the difference and Fangio was THE DRIVER. I haven’t really watched Senna’s racing years but I know of his win in Brazil when he had driven the car to victory even after losing some gears.
            Unlike him Sebastian seems to be lost when the car doesn’t suit him entirely or something happens. He also has troubles coming through the field without entangling with someone.
            He maybe a very good driver as he can take the car home in record time when nobody’s around but as a racer he’s still unconvincing.

          • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 12th March 2013, 7:47

            @klaas – I think Brazil proves he can adapt to a car that’s not to his liking, but purely for the purposes of ending the debate I will simply finish with I can’t convince you, only Vettel can.

          • Jason (@jason12) said on 12th March 2013, 8:21

            @vettel1

            I will simply finish with I can’t convince you, only Vettel can

            Finally a good point from you Max. Clearly Vettel hasn’t convinced many yet (save for his die-hard fans).

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 12th March 2013, 11:21

            @jason12 – Problem is, that the people who claim they aren’t convinced set different standards for being convinced by other drivers and use the most nonsensical excuses to justify not being convinced.

          • @jason12 – Vettel has convinced many, as is evident from the ratings in the F1fanatic polls. He was third in 2012, first in 2011, fourth in 2010 and fourth again in 2009 – although those results were skewed by an influx of Räikkönen fans. So consistently he has been voted in the top 4, and is rated highly in the BBC’s greatest ever list, ahead of Alonso.

            You are basing your whole assumption on one season where Alonso performed particularly well and then going as far to say Vettel “hasn’t convinced many” – I think your logic is flawed.

        • Jake (@jleigh) said on 11th March 2013, 17:37

          I agree, for me it was 2012 that showed Vettel to be not quite up there with Alo and Ham, rather than proving he was.

          • Let’s be realistic here – there was no possible outcome in 2012 which would not have led you to that conclusion.

        • Remember that Vettel got in the title fight only after the summer break

          That’s the myth which a lot of people are peddling, but it has no basis in fact. Five races into the season Vettel was tied for first place. But for an alternator failure in Valencia he would have been leading the standings as late as the ninth race. After Spa, the twelfth race of the season, Vettel was second in the standings. The claim that he was “not in the title fight” until the mighty mage Adrian Newey sprinkled some fairy dust on his car in Japan car is simply nonsense.

    • HoHum (@hohum) said on 11th March 2013, 13:00

      A fine Bromance !

  4. Neusalz (@dpod) said on 11th March 2013, 0:48

    I’m quite happy to see Hamilton and Alonso have so much respect towards each other after the whole McLaren saga.

    • celeste (@celeste) said on 11th March 2013, 2:02

      More than respect I agree with what journalist thing, they keep sending each other compliments to made Vettel state of mind weak, don´t think is working and is getting a little silly…

      • Brace (@brace) said on 11th March 2013, 3:46

        I see all of the team principals and journalists are in on the gig too? I mean, they are also saying that Alonso is better then Vettel so it must be that they are all in cahoots? :)

      • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 11th March 2013, 7:38

        @celeste +1. We saw last season the mind games, did Vettel get rattled? No, so it’s just a waste of breath now…

      • Klaas (@klaas) said on 11th March 2013, 9:19

        @celeste So in your view the whole universe must revolve around Vettel? If a driver praises another (who isn’t Vettel) then it’s only with the purpouse of rattling Vettel?
        The FIA must make a rule: in each interview they give each driver must worship Vettel otherwise it would be considered mind games against poor Sebastian.
        I think Ham explained his reasons very well in the interview + it’s obvious for the less paranoid F1 followers that Lewis and Alonso still have an ‘unfinished bussiness’ after 2007. I’m sure both of them as many people want a season when they can fight a WDC only between themselves.

        • @Klass

          +1 …
          The FIA must make a rule: in each interview they give each driver must worship Vettel otherwise it would be considered mind games against poor Sebastian.

          Loved this line.. :)

        • celeste (@celeste) said on 11th March 2013, 15:50

          @klaas was I defending Vettel? No.
          Did I say they should stop? No.

          Is the way that I´m perciving their actions. I´m not paranoic, simple judging in way I read, and see, so no I´m not are over invested fan.

          So no need to call the FIA. And no need to call me paranoic

        • @klaas – this is by no means an isolated event from either driver. I don’t have a problem with drivers using mind games – I’d prefer they just let their driving do the talking but ill accept the fact it’s all part of the show.

          • M Dickens (@sgt-pepper) said on 11th March 2013, 18:41

            (@vettel1) do you mind me asking, if it’s merely Alonso and Hamilton propogating the ‘myth’ of Vettel’s need of the best car to succeed, why are the commentators also in on the ‘act’? (emphasised by Brundle’s recent-ish interview in January to some car mag, and even in F1 edits you often hear constant mentions of the strength of the car/Newey). What cause do they have to propogate this concept?

          • *I’ll

          • @sgt-pepper – no need, just fanciful beliefs in the British media and for “giving the fans what they want”. I think there are some that are less biased than others (Crofty’s not too bad) but nonetheless they’re just a catalysing the myths.

          • no need cause

          • F1fanNL (@) said on 12th March 2013, 0:31

            @sgt-pepper

            Brundle is a man that goes with the flow. He’s said numerous times that Vettel needs a great car and at numerous other times he’s said that Vettel has shown he can win in anything because he’s won in a Torro Rosso.
            Other than Brundle it’s mostly British media that try to talk Vettel down. Just like they did with Schumacher after 1994.
            I suppose the Spanish media does the same but since I never watch that I wouldn’t know for sure.
            It’s all just a case of talking your ‘opponents’ down to make your heroes seem more heroic.

            If you look at American commentators or other countries that aren’t represented by (great) drivers you’ll see they’ll talk more about drivers than cars. Sure, they’ll talk technical stuff and give Newey credit for thinking of something ground breaking but they don’t use it to say Vettel is only winning because of Newey.

            Also, the fact that the team principals voted Vettel 2nd best this year (and best in 2011 and 2009) shows that, as opposed to what some are trying to convince you of, the majority doesn’t look at Vettel and say “it’s all car.” Not by a long shot.

        • The FIA must make a rule: in each interview they give each driver must worship Vettel

          The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Strawmen would like a word with you.

  5. mskii (@mskii) said on 11th March 2013, 0:50

    Hamilton and Alonso are clearly tsundere for each other ‘i-its not like i w-want to race you or anything’

  6. Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 11th March 2013, 0:51

    “Blessed with a naturally slow metabolism, as evidenced by his resting heart rate of 44 beats per minute (as opposed to the norm of 72bpm), Juan had the endurance capacity of a man half his age, and he worked hard to preserve it.”

    Heh, I remember Fangio saying once that he used to go cycling with Froilan round Balcarce, and they’d stop halfway through their route because Froilan always “wanted to pee”. He’d enter a restaurant to use the bathroom and after a while, he’d come out with a smile on his face ready to continue… he had just eaten a sandwich… :P

    I guess back then argie drivers were too trained to overcome a 3 hour Grand Prix. I mean, they raced hundred of kilometres since the late 30’s in Turismo Carretera, on the open roads, in very fast cars, in crazy conditions. No wonder there were so many of them racing sucessfully in F1, though sadly, many of them weren’t even interested enough, Galvez being a notable example.

    • codesurge (@codesurge) said on 11th March 2013, 2:58

      I found that to be quite a fascinating article; he was way ahead of his time and it wasn’t until the more recent eras that sports nutrition really rose to the forefront of a driver’s lifestyle.

      Can’t imagine sleeping for 12 hours straight on a daily basis, though – my own sleep cycle would have me up by the 7th or 8th hour!

  7. Francorchamps (@francorchamps17) said on 11th March 2013, 1:06

    Hamilton says Alonso is the best driver, but we will only remember that Vettel is a triple world champion (and he is only 25…).

    • Blackmamba (@blackmamba) said on 11th March 2013, 1:26

      We will only remember Vettel the same way we remeber Keki Rosberg, World Champion but nothing special! The boy aint got pizzazz.

    • F1_Americana (@f1americana) said on 11th March 2013, 1:53

      True fanatics of the sport don’t just look at number of world championships achieved when considering their ultimate ‘pecking order’. To do so would to be to say that Vettel is the equal of Senna, which many would not agree with. Likewise, I don’t think you’ll find too many people that would say Schumacher is more that 3 times greater than Alonso, Hakkinen, etc…

      • To do so would to be to say that Vettel is the equal of Senna, which many would not agree with.

        That seems to be the great appeal of F1 to many – it’s the sport in which what you think of the competitors counts for more than what they do on the field of play. Somebody who said “I don’t care how many gold medals Usain Bolt wins, I’m not going to accept him as a great runner” would be greeted with hoots of derision.

    • mantresx (@mantresx) said on 11th March 2013, 2:42

      Yes, if Vettel were to retire now that’s how we would remember him, but we haven’t seen all his career yet, I mean who knows he may do some crazy thing like crashing deliberately to win a championship or something that could really hurt his image but, so far so good.

    • Ben (@scuderia29) said on 11th March 2013, 11:34

      Sterling Moss won 0 World championships and he is remembered very well, jenson button has won 1 and yet if he was to retire now theres no way jenson button would be remembered as such a great.

    • Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 11th March 2013, 13:39

      By your logic Nelson Piquet is as good as Ayrton Senna and Damon Hill and Jaques Villeneuve are better drivers than Stirling Moss and Gilles Villeneuve

      • M Dickens (@sgt-pepper) said on 11th March 2013, 18:44

        As much as it pains me to agree with a self-proclaimed ‘tifosi’, you certainly deserve a +1.

      • And by your logic the WDC is a stupid competition which should really be done away with and replaced with fan polls.

        I mean, if Senna had not gone to McLaren and driven the best car in F1, how many WDC’s would he have won? Zero, that’s how many.

    • @tifoso1989 – I don’t think anyone is implying that, or indeed that either of the two drivers you have mentioned are better than Moss and Villeneuve. Coincidentally though, you have mentioned drivers in your comparisons that all had their careers cut short…

  8. Sumedh said on 11th March 2013, 2:53

    I wonder if this is some sort of covert strategy between Alonso and Hamilton. You praise me and I praise you and let’s ignore Vettel. Do they think this will help them to get under Vettel’s skin?

    I don’t think it will. What might irritate Vettel are rumors that he is leaving Red Bull. He clearly didn’t like that last year and called them dirty tricks too.

  9. Jay Menon (@jaymenon10) said on 11th March 2013, 3:35

    Im going in with an open mind this season. As much as I would like Alonso to win, as usual, I dont have a warm fuzzy feeling. The Bulls have been quite, which scares me.

  10. magon4 (@magon4) said on 11th March 2013, 5:50

    enough of this alonso – hamilton lovefest already! no one is buying it anymore… only mosts journalists around the world!

  11. raymondu999 (@raymondu999) said on 11th March 2013, 6:38

    Perhaps Lewis is taking a leaf out of Codemasters’ book, and hoping for Ferrari to call Simon Fuller with a Ferrari contract if Lewis can beat Alonso in the final standings? :P

  12. Anonymouse said on 11th March 2013, 7:07

    I don’t get this. When Hamilton beats Vettel he goes on to say how he beat the supposed best. But when asked who is the best he goes for Alonso.

    • Nomore (@nomore) said on 11th March 2013, 9:10

      “the supposed best”–> is always the one who wins the championship.
      If Max Chilton has a 2 sec car advantage and beats his team mate he will win the championship (its just a scenario, i know it wont happen)…and then he will be “the supposed best”.
      “the best driver on the grid”–> it’s a “debatable” opinion, because there isn’t a mathematical way to prove who is the best…unless they drive all the same car.

      Team Bosses (who are the most knowledge person about formula 1 in this planet), drivers itself, the fans all over the world (most of them)…so all these agreed that Alonso is the best driver in the grid.

      • JerseyF1 (@jerseyf1) said on 11th March 2013, 10:31

        @nomore – this is nonsense and is the wrong way round.

        The WDC can reasonably be considered the best driver on the grid, having mastered all of the variables to win the championship, there is no element of debate in this. As in any sport the aim is to be world champion and the one who achieves that is therefore the best.

        The supposed best is Alonso, being the one that popular opinion supposes is the best but can’t prove using an unbiased measurable method.

        As to Anonymouse’s original point, it was that Hamilton (and others) uses whichever yardstick makes him look best at the time – Vettel is the yardstick when you’ve beaten him but when he has beaten you it’s because of his superior car and you point to Alonso as the yardstick.

        • Nomore (@nomore) said on 11th March 2013, 11:52

          “The WDC can reasonably be considered the best driver on the grid”

          I personally think this is nonsense and is the wrong way round.
          Why?
          Because we are discussing drivers not full package.
          “Vettel-car-team-luck” as a package was the best with no point of discussion, because the result tell this. so “Vettel-car-team-luck” > “Alonso-car-team-luck”.

          When we try to single out only the performance of the driver by eliminating the car, team and luck it’s called “debatable” opinion. I said already there isn’t a mathematical way to prove who is the best.

          There is a indirect way to prove who is the best. Thats why f1fanatic.co.uk, and a lot of other site exist to debate and give opinions who is the best. I have watched a lot of sites and in 95% of them Alonso is rated as the best apart some German sites and even in them Alonso is incredible close.

          @keithcollantine at the end of the year rated Alonso and Hamilton as nr.1 and nr.2 for this season. 50% of the f1fanatic.co.uk rated Alonso as the best and i can guarantee you that this is not a pro Ferrari or pro Alonso site (Italian or Spanish).

          If we accept by default that who wins the championship is the best driver in the grid then all forums are polls needs to be closed.
          And if the majority of the fans elected Alonso as the best…we can’t says that they are in nonsense mode and in the wrong way round… because the minority of the fans wants Vettel as the best.

          The party that wins the election is always the party that have the majority of the votes.

          • Nomore (@nomore) said on 11th March 2013, 11:53

            @jerseyf1
            sorry i forgot to tag you.

          • If we accept by default that who wins the championship is the best driver in the grid then all forums are polls needs to be closed.

            Polls, yes. Forums, no.

            I don’t know of any other sport where the fans think that can select the “winners” regardless of what happens on the field of play. You don’t see football fans saying “Kevin Nolan deserves the Golden Boot – sure he did not score the most goals, but when you consider the club he plays for, his 8 goals are worth more than RVP’s 23 goals!”

            You don’t see Malaga and Athletico Madrid debating each other over which club is truly the best in La Liga.

            In spite of the fact that winners are not selected via polls in other sports, they still manage to have fan forums.

            The logic of these polls is that the WDC ought to be done away with entirely.

          • Jason (@jason12) said on 12th March 2013, 12:39

            @jonsan
            Your argument is erroneous, the striker with highest number of goals yes wins the Golden Boot for scoring the most goals, he’s not necessarily the best striker in the league (this has happened many times).
            Same in F1, the WDC goes to driver with the most points at the end of the season, he’s also not necessarily the best driver on the grid (e.g. Button).

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 12th March 2013, 14:17

            @jason12 – I bet you’d struggle to find any striker score the most goals for three consecutive seasons, and have people say they’re inferior to multiple other strikers.

      • Anonymouse said on 11th March 2013, 11:01

        “Team Bosses (who are the most knowledge person about formula 1 in this planet), drivers itself, the fans all over the world (most of them)…so all these agreed that Alonso is the best driver in the grid”
        @nomore – For 2012 I presume, because it wasn’t that way in 2011

    • Jason (@jason12) said on 12th March 2013, 8:32

      @Anonymouse
      He means beating the best car.

  13. Jason (@jason12) said on 11th March 2013, 8:55

    Surely all F1 fans know Vettel is NOT on Alonso’s level. Nothing could be more obvious (no matter how hard you try to ignore it).

  14. Journeyer (@journeyer) said on 11th March 2013, 9:06

    All this criticism of Vettel in favor of Alonso will just push Vettel more in the direction of Ferrari (to prove that he can do what Alonso is doing now). In which case, Alonso better win a title soon, because LDM has already said he won’t let Alonso and Vettel become Ferrari teammates…

    • petebaldwin (@petebaldwin) said on 11th March 2013, 10:00

      I can just imagine that – Alonso fails to win the title in the next few years and eventually leaves Ferrari. Vettel joins Ferrari and immediately becomes WDC.
      “Ferrari had the fastest car” screams the readers of F1Fanatic.

    • Nomore (@nomore) said on 11th March 2013, 10:08

      right, but LDM says that i will take Vettel if Alonso DECIDE to retire…by laughing he says that if Alonso decide to go and live in the Caribbean with his girlfriend…
      Anyway it’s not Montezemolo who decide who is the best driver for them. There are specialist which analyze driver performance, ability, personality…and they says to Montezemolo this is the best for us.
      The job of Montezemolo is to hire this one by giving the best salary, to convince him…but i don’t think that he’s the one who decide.

      In 1999, 2006 and 2008 Ferrari had a car that should have won the championship (in 1996 probably with Michael they would have won), but they failed in one way or another…so they take it as a “driver problem” by deciding to make adjustment and sign other drivers.

      In 2010-2012 Ferrari had a car that should have not won the championship…so they take it as “car problem ” by deciding to sign other engineers (Loic Bigot, David Sanchez, return or Rory), rebuild the Wind Tunnel, update the simulator, restructure all the environment or the workflow, rebuild the hierarchy…etc

      If one day Ferrari will have a car that should win the championship and Alonso will not deliver a championship, then Alonso will be in trouble this is for sure…for now he have a contract till 2016 and if everything goes normal probably this contract will be renewed till 2018-2020.

      Ferrari can take Vettel by 2015 or 2016, but he will have to be team mate with Alonso…so it’s up to Vettel to decide to be his team mate or not…but remember that he have a lot to lose if he got beaten constantly by Alonso…and exactly all his career…so it’s like put all your money in one hand of poker and probably know that your hand is not strong enough to win the pot…will Vettel make this move knowing that Alonso is all in??..we will see…but i personally think he’s smart enough and he will not make this move.

    • JerseyF1 (@jerseyf1) said on 11th March 2013, 10:35

      to prove that he can do what Alonso is doing now

      Why would Vettel want to prove that he can consistently nearly win championships?

  15. Klaas (@klaas) said on 11th March 2013, 9:35

    to prove that he can do what Alonso is doing now

    Vettel should first start doing that at RedBull – win a race starting out of top 3. Then maybe Ferrari would consider him driving for them.

    • Anonymouse said on 11th March 2013, 11:08

      Is this about a car that is bad in qualifying but blisteringly fast in race conditions or a bad qualifier who isn’t making the full potential of the car? Because apart from that there is no other way to win races, especially the way the last few seasons are panning out – exception would be 2008 Canada

    • @klaas – that is a stupid argument: all it proves is that Vettel maximises the potential of his car in qualifying unlike Alonso does on occasion. Hamilton has a similar record I believe.

      If you are still clutching a straws though how is this to feed your appetite: 12th to 2nd in Spa and 24th to 6th in Brazil (in the wet with a damaged car). There was no performance advantage in either of those cases.

      • tvm (@) said on 11th March 2013, 17:38

        Oh please come on!!

        Half the field was wiped out in Spa and the entire field moved aside for him in Brazil.

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 11th March 2013, 17:44

          @tvm – Vettel was 12th after the collision, since it affected his start. He still finished 2nd.

          And you know you’re exaggerating hugely with the second comment there. It is you who needs to come on.

          • tvm (@) said on 11th March 2013, 17:52

            He’s a good driver no doubt, but that does not change the fact that he was let by in Brazil

            Have you not been paying attention to what the likes of Massa can do for defending when it so suits them?

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 11th March 2013, 18:43

            @tvm – It’s not a “fact” that “the entire field moved aside for him in Brazil”. It’s just an excuse.

            Nor is it even a decent argument (from Klaas) that a team would only want a driver if they won from out of the top 3, when he qualifies inside of the top 3 so often. Which is what drivers go out to do on Saturday afternoons.

        • @tvm – I saw the Toro Rosso’s move over, Michael Schumacher and Webber (once). Hardly the entire field, is it? Even then, the Toro Rosso’s weren’t exactly a significant obstacle, so I’d be focusing more upon the midfield guys who’s cars were faster in the dry due to the damage sustained to Vettel’s RB8.

    • F1fanNL (@) said on 12th March 2013, 0:45

      @klaas

      Vettel should first start doing that at RedBull – win a race starting out of top 3.

      The moment Vettel wins from fourth you’ll undoubtedly return with “If he wins from starting from the 3rd row or worse only then bla bla bla.” And then if he wins from 5th or 6th it will be “he must win from the middle of the grid to be worthy!” After that it will be “He must win from the back! Only the great can win from the back!”
      With your logic Barichello is a greater driver than Alonso and Hamilton. So seeing as Schumacher beat Barichello relentlessly that means Schumacher is miles and miles ahead of Alonso and Hamilton, no?

      • Klaas (@klaas) said on 12th March 2013, 7:17

        No, my point is that if Ferrari sign Vettel but happens to end up with a car like F10 or F2012 Vettel would be pretty much useless. How many times did Vettel had to come through the field without hitting someone or illegally overtaking?

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 12th March 2013, 9:10

          @klaas – He’s driven cars worse than an F10 or F2012 at the start of his career, and came through the field quite a few times. So he’d not be “useless”.

          17th-4th : China 07
          19th-5th : Monaco 08
          20th-8th : Canada 08

          And he’s done so for RBR as well.
          15th-4th : Brazil 09
          24th-7th : Britain 10
          10th-2nd : Belgium 12
          20th-6th : Brazil 12

          • Klaas (@klaas) said on 12th March 2013, 10:08

            @david-a And now count the number of times he crashed while coming thorugh. Australia 2009, Istanbul 2010, Spa 2010 are the most illustrative and many more.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 12th March 2013, 10:28

            @klaas – Those are hardly cases of him “coming through the field”, just him happening to have an incident on track. Count the number of incidents across the career of any driver, and you can paint a negative picture of them. Lewis is 2011 alone, for example.

1 2 3

Add your comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

All comments must abide by the comment policy. Comments may be moderated.
Want to post off-topic? Head to the forum.
See the FAQ for more information.