Vettel apologises to Webber for ‘win I’m not proud of’

2013 Malaysian Grand PrixPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, Sepang, 2013Sebastian Vettel apologised to team mate Mark Webber after ignoring a team order not to overtake him during the Malaysian Grand Prix.

Vettel passed Webber in the final stint of the race despite having been told to hold position.

“I owe an explanation to Mark and the team, and that’s it,” said Vettel after the race. “Everyone else has the right to their own opinions.”

“For sure it’s not a victory I’m very proud of because it should have been Mark’s.”

“I think it has to be said that we respect each other and there’s nothing that has to be, in that regard, has to be fixed,” he added. “Obviously I owe him a proper explanation, I tried to give it in front of everyone and I will try again just face to face.

“The situation is as it is now but I think we don’t hate each other so I don’t think that’s anything to worry about for going into the next couple of races.”

Vettel indicated he did not realise what the consequences of his move would be: “I messed up today and I apologise for that but right now I want to say the truth.”

“I wasn’t aware of it otherwise I wouldn’t take that much risk to pass someone I’m not supposed to pass at that moment. But just before we got out on the podium I had a very quick word and it was quite a shock and not easy for me to admit but that’s the truth so I want to stick to the truth.”

Webber did not hide his displeasure with the outcome of the race, saying: “I was completely reassured twice that we were not going to abuse the cars on each other because it was very easy for us not to get any points for the whole team”.

“But it’s very hard for everybody to understand the whole scenario,” he explained. “There’s a lot of people that think they know the whole situation but unfortunately it’s not possible for them to understaned everything.”

Webber said the situation “puts a lot of heat on certain people” within the team. “Unfortunately there’s no rewind button now so the scenario is a bit more challenging for certain people.”

“It’s three weeks to the next race, we’re fortunate we have three weeks. I’ll catch some waves in Australia on my board and I think this will be good medicine for me. I had a lot of thoughts going through my mind in the last 15 laps of the Grand Prix so whether the medicine is enough, we’ll see.”

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574 comments on “Vettel apologises to Webber for ‘win I’m not proud of’”

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  1. firstLapNutcaseGrosjean (@)
    24th March 2013, 11:46

    True racer! Sneaks the victory and then apologise.

    1. What a joke!

      “Really sorry Mark, my bad. I apologize as this should be your win”.

      Vettel says as he walks away with 25 points!

    2. Also shows the total disregard he has for his team.

      1. despite all the wins, titles he’s won with them . I thought Red Bull were coy and selfish ,vettel is one degree higher. Although , It will be interesting to see how they deal with him .

        1. No different from senna or Schumacher. Win at all costs and f@ck everyone else. Not pretty but it works

          1. No records for gentlemen

          2. Yep…You have to sacrifice something to be a champion.

        2. This is clear insubordination. Just from a leadership standpoint, Horner needs to lay down the law about who’s boss. If I were him, just for starters, I would have:
          1. forbidden Vettel’s crew to attend the podium celebrations
          2. forbidden Webber’s crew to applaud Vettel on the podium
          3. sent Webber’s engineer to receive the constructor’s trophy.

          Then I would figure out the appropiriate internal measures to take to put the fear of God in both Vettel and Webber so that next time they get such an order from their boss, they comply with haste.

          This could end badly.

          1. That seems highly childish and unprofessional..

          2. Dude seriously! As the person above me points out, the podium ceremony was awkward enough and slightly unprofessional. You wanted more drama to ensue?

          3. 1. make Vettel no1 driver
            2. kick webber off the team
            3. have a second driver whos smaller, thus they can design a tighter car.

            I like webber but he doesn’t help vettel, he even has saved his tyres to get a Fastest lap on the last lap to deny vettel that record.

          4. In retrospect, #2 is a bit over-the-top, petty and unnecessary but I stand by the other two. Imagine you’re Vettel rolling into Parc Ferme after just defying team orders to steal a win from your teammate and none of your usual crew is there to celebrate with you. Mark’s crew is there but they don’t look very pleased with you. Then on the podium, you see Mark’s race engineer. That should send a very strong message to you saying, ‘Fine, you think you are above the team and you can do what you want? Have fun celebrating your sneaky, unscrupulous win by yourself.’

            It also sends a strong public message to Webber (and his fans) saying we fully support you in this instance. Webber’s an old pro but if he gets too discouraged or disallisioned Redbull can kiss a 4th consecutive constructor’s title goodbye, especially with Massa, Mercedes and Lotus all seeming to have raised their game this year.

            Perhaps most importantly, it also sends an immediate message to Dietrich Mateschitz who usually watches the races at home on TV saying, ‘Don’t worry boss, I’m taking immediate action to restore order in this team. The hens are no longer going to be running the hen house.’ Unchecked insubordination has a way of spreading like wildfire.

            Sometimes, symbolic, public gestures are just as important as the behind the scenes, private reprimands. Public shaming and temporary ostracization are very effective disciplinary tools.

      2. calm down mark is harder on his tyres and so is hamilton. Mark was fighting for that spot and lost it with honor, but then he became a sore loser saying to seb we had team orders. This is not politics this is racing ‘a competitive sport’. Hamilton was man enough to say rosberg should have been on the podium, but webber has not matured much in all his years of racing. Really sad!! and now politics once again has prevailed and vettel’s been forced to apologies for winning LOL. Grow a pair webber its a tight race and every point counts and your not the winning driver of this team and shame on redbull for not appreciating vettel’s initiative and management of the car. ‘team orders’ BLAH i dont watch parliament i watch F1 lets keep it that way.

    3. If we think about pure racing the way its meant to be, then Vettel did what a true racer would do indeed. And that is, beat everyone else! Reason for his apology is to make the team happy. But although I would have liked to see Webber win, in my eyes Vettel deserved his win and so there is nothing to apologize, as there was a clean battle and the better driver won.

      If the teams wants to drive the cars (instead of the drivers themselves), then they should install the a remote control system on every car and operate the cars from the garage with a joystick!

      1. Both of SV & MW and the team have all agreed on (this scenario multi-21) prior to the race, MW could have turned on the rev and abuse the hell out of the car (built by 500 hard working people) to fight to the bitter end (both of them tyres could have finished by lap 50-52) MW was sensible to let go… this goes to show that SV did not really care much about the hard work that the team put in that may end with nothing if shit happened. a disgraceful and pretty dirty win, this kid still haven’t learned much… (don’t think many of us forgot about Turkey) and he knew better than anyone. and WATCH OUT for Mr. Marko will be blaming MW in the next few days (a predictable prediction).

        1. Funny you mention everyone forgot Turkey 2010, when you apparently forgot Silverstone 2011.

      2. Mark turned down his engine and Vettel took advantage of it against team will which had told him to hold position. Red Bull bosses have now an opportunity to clarify their both drivers about following or not team orders.

      3. Finally someones comment makes sense, thank you JCost.

    4. I just hate team orders (since Spa 1998, D.Hill & R.Schumacher & E.Jordan – see on youtube).
      The fastest looks to have won the race within tense intra-team battle.

      A driver went for the win and kept it stuck in. In the end, Vettel is the race winner of the 2013 Malaysian Grand Prix.

      If you had a shot for a F1 race victory, what would you do?

      I would go for it!

      1. But if your employer told you not to do something, would you then go do it?

        1. @oakrichardson if I’ve given my employee profits in the last 3 years, I would probably deal with it and be told off, got a memo or something like that. Itwouldn’t matter so much at the end (and if Vettel wins this championship by a single point, you’ll see he was right to take the risk(

          1. but would you go out of your way to do it? Vettel had the order and did not listen. I enjoyed watching them race, but not the outcome.

          2. What if Red-Bull decide that Vettel is no longer worth the hassle and bring someone like Rosberg or Hulk and he goes on to achieve even greater things with Red-Bull than Vettel did. Vettel needs Red-Bull far more than Red-Bull needs Vettel.

      2. God, when will people stop calling this teamorders? Damon started in P3, led the race from lap 1 and took the lead again after Michael Schumacher decided to park his Ferrari inside a McLaren. At no point during the race Ralf was even remotely close to winning. Only the SC brought him to the back of Damon’s car, who at this point was struggling with a slow puncture and still kept in on the wet track.

        Nobody deserved that victory more than Damon Hill.

        1. Hill’s begging for the team-order in SPA’98 was the most pathetic and miserable thing that I’ve seen in F1.

          1. Funny, Schumacher wiping out Hill in Aus ’94 gets my vote. Jordan made correct call in Spa ’98.

          2. I see your Australia ’94 and raise you Silverstone ’95, Monza ’95 and Montreal ’98.

          3. Indeed. Schumacher crying in Montreal 98 surely was the most pathetic thing ever.

      3. But the whole point is why did he have the chance to overtake? Because Webber was sticking to the plan and driving slow. Vettel took advantage

      4. It wasn’t a ‘team order’ thing. Webber had turned down his engine on orders of the engineers. Vettel was to do the same. Webber asked several times if Vettel was to do the same, clearly he didn’t trust him to follow orders. Webber could have won if he’d continued racing, instead, he followed orders and was jumped by his team mate who ignored them.

        1. Thanks. It’s nice to see that someone actually understands it.

    5. Gutless more like it. Lost a great amount of respect for him today.

      1. I have no real issue with the pass, it was great to watch. Red Bull need to bang their two drivers heads together if it was not what was planned. But from a racing point of view it was all fair in love and war.

        Tho the apology is pathetic if you are going to stick your neck out and go your own way at least be man enough to stick by it.

        Personally for me the way Merc did things was more shameful for the sport. i watched the race with a casual F1 fan and he was very put off. To quote him ‘ it was a great race until 10laps to go and then it was a joke once you knew no one was trying to or allowed to race’

        1. once you knew no one was trying

          Well, Red Bull did that too! It’s just Vettel didn’t listen.

    6. The worst thing was him claiming that he didn’t know… that is just not at all plausible.

      A true racer would have just said “I was faster than Mark, I asked for Mark to be told to speed up, Mercedes could have caught us, I couldn’t wait any longer so I took the decision to overtake, the gap at the finish proved I was right”.

      I’m pretty sure that’s what Senna, Mansell, Piquet, Villeneueve (Giles or Jacques), Montoya, etc would all said.

      1. So if Vettel was better on the microphone, he would be a more ‘true racer?’

      2. I’m pretty sure that’s what Senna, Mansell, Piquet, Villeneueve (Giles or Jacques), Montoya, etc would all said.

        Would that be the same Gilles Villeneuve who sat loyally behind his team mate at Monza in 1979, knowing all he had to do was pass to win the WDC yet refusing to do so simply because Ferrari had ordered “hold station”?

    7. Ahaha… they really fooled WEB. Let’s shut off your engine and now let’s sail until the end. Is this a race? I would throw my helmet to the floor and quit F1 for good! Suckers!

    8. As much as I feel for Mark, the picture on the other side of the coin would not have sat well with viewers either. Let’s suppose the counterfactual case: Vettel holds position and allows Webber to win, then you have two pairs of drivers basically driving in a pre-arranged race. The fall out would have been more damaging for F1.

      1. Webber had the race in the bag controlled it after the first stop and held the gap. The team tells him no risk so turn down the engine while Vettel turns his up and undercuts after stopping first making over 3.5 seconds in one lap.
        Normally the guy in front pits first and if Webber had at the end he wins easily. He won’t make that mistake again!

        1. I agree with most of what you just said. But the fact remains that Webber could have come back at Seb after he got overtaken. I meant couldn’t he have turned his engines back up to max power and tried to retake the position? (Speculating here, my technical acumen of F1 isn’t spectacular).

          1. No he was follow the orders he was told. When Vettel passed him into turn 4, Mark gave him plenty of space as he didnt want to ‘race’ Vettel, any other time that door would be shut with 100 padlocks holding it closed.

          2. @Giggsy11

            You said it yourself. “Mark gave him plenty of plenty of space as he didnt want to ‘race’ Vettel”.

            The above begs the obvious question, why didn’t he want to race? Okay, I get it he didn’t want to jeopardize both their race standings with a possible contact or off-track excursions. But these are the sort of things that separate champions from other ‘good drivers’. The Rate-Race page would have gone off the charts had Webber tried to come back at Seb. Alas, it wasn’t to be :(

  2. Do you believe on what he is saying? I don’t…

    1. vuelve kowalsky
      24th March 2013, 12:06

      Me neither. He is the best shot for red bull to win championships. So Marko must be very happy with the outcome.

    2. @f1-98 whatever he says, he’s a racer. He smelt win, he took it.

      All this is just PR stuff… he had plenty of time to think about it during the race, I suspect, being a truly great at this sport. He decided to do this, the damage? who cares? who ends up with the trophy and the 25 points??

      1. Who cares?

        Er… his employers that have just been made to look stupid?

        This isn’t about the ‘PR’ stuff, it’s about the friction it will cause within the team – Webber’s comments underline that. Personally, I think this may have been the best thing to happen to Webber for the season ahead.

        1. it’s about the friction it will cause within the team – Webber’s comments underline that

          @john-h so after 3 years, you still believe there are no frictions between they both?
          Webber comments were given on the heat of the moment. No PR, he never cares about PR and I respect him for that.
          But let’s imagine it would have been 2 other drivers… let’s say Rosberg 1st and Hamilton 2nd, not respecting team orders and snatcing victory from Nico’s hands. People would not be saying “childish Vettel” but “what a legend is Lewis”; even more, people wouldn’t be worried saying “this will cause friction” but “Lewis rules”

          1. Ryan (@ryanisjones)
            25th March 2013, 0:24

            People would not be saying “childish Vettel” but “what a legend is Lewis”; even more, people wouldn’t be worried saying “this will cause friction” but “Lewis rules”

            Nobody would be saying that if it was Lewis. You are indirectly implying that Hamilton fans are blinkered. This is not the case. The problem with this situation, is had Webber not been told explicitly by his team to drive to a time delta Vettel would have never caught him. In other words the team are ‘blaming’ Vettel, but they orchestrated the events that made it possible.

            Christian Horner is as culpable as Vettel for reassuring Mark it was fine for him to slow down, allowing Vettel to pit first for the undercut, and then not informing Mark that Vettel was disobeying team orders so that Mark had a fair chance of racing him to maintain his lead. Swapping names would not make it any different.

    3. At least he said it I suppose, which is more than Alonso ever did when he won a controversial race.

      1. Sviatoslav Andrushko (@)
        24th March 2013, 14:35

        Then Fernando couldn’t tell anything because it would finish badly for his team. But he is supportive of his teammate, which is bad.

      2. alonso is always honest about it. Seb saying he is sorry is clearly a lie

        1. Singapore GP anyone…. ????

          1. @boylep6

            Or Hockenheim 2010.

    4. The problem isn’t that he ignored team orders. I can’t stand team orders. Its that Red Bull slowed Webber to let Vettel be in that position and THEN he ignored them.

      1. firstLapNutcaseGrosjean (@)
        24th March 2013, 12:35


        1. Agreed. Rosberg raced well against Hamilton.

      2. Very true. It’s the moral equivalent of shooting the enemy during a ceasefire.

        1. spot on! Its betrayal

        2. @jackysteeg
          Are you sure that Vettel agreed on holding positions? Just because the team and Webber thought that he was going to hold position doesn’t mean that he had agreed on doing so.

          1. that is not the point, he was told by his employer, the team that keep him in a job to stay in that position and then he just ignored them. its wrong in the end.

          2. Juan (@gumbercules)
            24th March 2013, 17:39

            Yes, the team agrees to a strategy before the race, there is no doubt about that. Even Christian Horner said it and Mark said the team told him twice that Vettel would also hold back.

            Vettel basically lied to in order to gain an advantage: “yes, I will hold position on the last stint” but then he passes Webber.

          3. @mads
            Racing drivers are very different to normal employees.
            Their performance is so dependent on their attitude and determination. When they sign a three times world champion, then they cannot assume that he will do whatever they want him to. Its just not a part of the world champion package. They can be unhappy about it, but they shouldn’t expect him to do whatever they say unless he has agreed upon it.
            Especially not when his team mate, who he has trounced year after year, did not obey their orders previously.
            Team orders are annoying and ruins racing. I think its fantastic when drivers say “screw you” to that kind of bull and races to win. That is what they are paid to do, and that is what we pay to see.

          4. how do racing drivers differ from normal enpoylees? Anyone’s performance can be driver by attitude and determination. But, for the most part if they are told by their employer to do something, they will, even if it is not beneficial to them because in the end that is there job. People keep going on about silverstone 2011 but it is a different situation as they were not running 1 and 2 and vettel was not running with his engine turned down (as far as im aware). Fans get very passionate about there favored driver and when things go there way they are rightly happy, but sometimes they go there way wrongly and that skews the judgement of the fan, something that i think reflects in the comments (last line not aimed at your comment @mads just a statement).

          5. @oakrichardson
            I still don’t think that its a valid comparison.
            Usually an employee has to do what is best for the company.
            When Vettel in this situation does what is best for him self, then, because he executes it properly does not harm the team, but helps him self. If he kept doing what was best for the team then Red Bull could end up with no drivers championship. And how good is that?
            A racing driver by nature has a massive ego.
            Its just the way they work. It is impossible to have a lapdog and a great racing driver. They just don’t come in the same package.
            The reason that they have come so far is because they have a deep rooted desire to win. You cannot expect a three times world champion to just hold position.

          6. @mads I agree with you to a certain extent, in that it is in the nature of the racing driver to win. But I do believe the comparrison I have made is a vaild one. This is because in this situation what vettel has done has made the team, and therefore his employer look silly because he did not do as they told him to, and in the end he has only won his championships with this team, and going against them is a sign of disrespect. I am all for letting them race and I believe of the two vettel is a better driver, but in this instance he passed webber in an unfair manner, whilst going against his team.

          7. I think the real issue is that it wasn’t a fair fight.

            Red Bull orchestrated the situation by allowing Vettel to undercut his teammate and suddenly a ~5s gap evaporated and Vettel was all over the back of Webber as he exited the pits. Then Vettel continued to race hard for the overtake despite the fact that Webber had been reassured he could safely back off and turn down his engine.

            If Vettel had announced over the radio that he was not going to adhere to team orders and would attack Webber, at least Red Bull could have relayed that information to Webber who would have been able to react, resulting in a fair fight.

          8. @panache

            Red Bull orchestrated the situation

            Their reaction and their words on the radio make it clear Red Bull didn’t “orchestrate” anything. They told their drivers to hold position and expected them to obey.

          9. @keithcollantine Yeah my choice of adjective and sentence structure was poor here, although I suspect even if I commented that Red Bull “allowed this to happen” you would object, thinking that I am a conspiracy theorist who thinks Red Bull were out to sabotage Webber. I can’t blame you for assuming the worst considering the number of conspiracy theorys on this site:)

            For the record, I don’t think that, but I still don’t understand why Red Bull allowed Vettel to undercut Webber on the final pitsop which enabled Vettel to close a several second gap and almost pass Webber on his exit from the pitlane.

            Great work on the articles as always Keith.

        3. He’s now claiming that there was a prior agreement but he didn’t realize that it had been invoked. In other words that the agreement was not in force at the time presumably because whatever code had not been given.

          This is just bonkers and makes him look stupid.

        4. @jackysteeg

          So it’s exactly like Webber in Silverstone 2011 then.

      3. If Red Bull were that annoyed with Vettel ignoring any pre race agreement, they had 15 ish laps to order him to give the place back. My question is why didn’t they?

        1. Horner said it would’ve been pointless, Vettel wouldn’t do it.

          1. That response from Christian Horner was the response of a leader wimping out. IMHO, if Mark Webber had taken first place from Vettel in similar circumstances, he would have been ordered to give the place back, and if he did not, he would probably have been fired. I can think of at least two teams (including one whose cars are red and built at a place named Maranello) where ignoring team orders would probably get any driver heavily penalized, possibly even fired.
            What this incident shows is that Christian Horner is either not capable of enforcing team orders at Red Bull, or he is not allowed to enforce them. Either way, Sebastian Vettel has proved that he can be insubordinate to the team in a racing situation and get away with it. Terrible precedent for Red Bull.

      4. @infi24r

        I find it hard to believe that Webber followed those orders to the letter and that he turned his revs down and/or didn’t turn his revs back up when it mattered, or that he really believed the race was over. But if its true, then almost makes you think that the whole move was planned by someone within the team. In which case it should be down to Webber to recognise that. But I don’t like speculating.

        1. Ryan (@ryanisjones)
          25th March 2013, 0:44

          I think you are spot on. I believe the whole “blame Vettel” media storm is deflecting from the fact the team are culpable. For instance…

          1. Why was Vettel allowed to undercut?
          2. Why was Webber not told about the times of Vettel’s out-lap? He was 1 second quicker than Webber in each sector. Imagine if it was Alonso not Vettel behind him. From the first sector time Webber would have been informed “Alonso is catching you 1 second per sector you need to turn up your engine and race”. Clearly this never happened with Vettel. In fact…
          3. Why was he STILL being told that Vettel was not racing him?
          4. Annnnnd why was Horner not more stern? “This is silly?” – Really, is that the best you can do.

          I think this is why Webber is clearly going to consider retiring. Racing your team mate is one thing, but racing against your team. That is a battle he cant win. You need to be able to trust your pit wall to give you accurate information about your competitors – team mates included. Not allow them to catch you up.

          1. I agree with that completely.

      5. exactly +1

        multi 21 – Vet driver 1 Web Driver 2 – 1 Webber 2 Vettel?

  3. Sebastian, I do not believe you when you say you “weren’t aware” that you were supposed to hold position.

    If you ignored team orders because you wanted to win this Grand Prix, just say so. I would respect you for that.

    1. If you ignored team orders because you wanted to win this Grand Prix, just say so. I would respect you for that.

      +1 on that

      1. And another +1 from me.

      2. Yep. We need more honesty and less political correctness and PR BS from people.

        A +1 from me as well

    2. Exactly. He just lost all the admiration he had won from me. Oh boy, F1 is full of cry-babies, liars and hypocrites. I miss good old Piquet and Senna, who would do what they wanted to do and tell you honestly that they did it ’cause they could.

      Perhaps we need MORE pay drivers. They would tell the teams what to do, and not the other way around. This is just SAD.

      1. I thought hard about this incident & I realized that if someone other than Vettel did what he did at the track today I would applaud them. I just am not a Vettel fan but you are right. Racing is racing. To say that he is wrong is to say that drivers should not be competitive which then invalidates the whole point of racing.

        When there is competition of any sort, there will be a winner & a loser. When there is an opportunity, you take it or leave it.

        1. I think you have missed the point totally. I am sure you know that in recent times most teams allow their drivers to race each other until the latter part of the race when if they are one driver behind the other the team tell them to hold position, this is to avoid any unnecessary collision. That is the case in this race, both drivers were told to hold position and Webber’s engine was even turned down. Vettel should be ashamed, F1 is for gentlemen not husslers.

          1. F1 has never really been for ‘gentlemen’.

          2. @ Mikkey – Plus the tyres were a big concern, which is what RBR did not want… They could have risked damaging the tyres if they raced each other and who knows Mecedes might have split the Red Bulls… That was the strategy…

          3. Spot on Mikkey

          4. What is the point of F1 or even racing if you want to be safe, avoid collision and be in a procession ? This assumption of drivers will crash when racing wheel to wheel is foolish.

            “By being a racing driver you are under risk all the time. By being a racing driver means you are racing with other people. And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, we are competing to win. And the main motivation to all of us is to compete for victory, it’s not to come 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. I race to win as long as I feel it’s possible. Sometimes you get it wrong? Sure, it’s impossible to get it right all the time. But I race designed to win, as long as I feel I’m doing it right.” :- Ayrton Senna

            Like it or not, Vettel vs Webber fight was one of the most exciting thing in that GP. A lot of close quarters racing and they can still fight without crashing. These are professional drivers. They get paid tons of money to drive & they should be able to race wheel to wheel.

            This is racing. this is competition. What Mark should have done is turn his engine back up and at least put up a fight. F1 is not for gentlemen & nice guys. All the F1 greats are in some way cold, ruthless and driven to win.

    3. A bit strange, and I tend not to believe him much there either. On the other hand, maybe he just means that he had not realized the team would be upset, because it was clear he had no trouble hearing the radio. Maybe to him its the same as setting fastest race laps towards the end even when the team tell him not too?
      Thereby clearly showing where the problem lies this time.

    4. Indeed, I think ignoring team orders is something we should applaud drivers for, if all would do it, we could have real racing on the edge.

      1. I f one driver is complying with team orders and the other do not, this last one is taking an (unfair) advantage from the other. This never could be real racing.

        Vettel decided to take an unfair advantage from Webber, and I’m pretty sure he did it because he knows it will have no consequences for him. I could not imagine what would have been RBR reaction in the opposite case.

        1. From his apology, and “not have known what it would cause” it certainly gives the impression that Vettel was taken aback by how much he team got down on him for the ignoring. Understandably, because in the past they never made much of a point of him ignoring orders to slow down and setting fast laps.

          I fully agree with you that it gave an unfair advantage to Vettel, and I do not like him for that. Its a shame Webbers engineer couldn’t tell Mark to turn up the wick and fight back in time and we would have had a real battle.

          1. @bascb
            Was Webber really taken by surprise? It took Vettel several laps to get around him. It does not take that long to move a switch on the steering wheel to turn the engine mode up.

          2. Understandably, because in the past they never made much of a point of him ignoring orders to slow down and setting fast laps.

            Good point, @bascb

          3. @mads


            Just Webber making excuses. He was going slower than Vettel all race and then suddenly it’s all about multi-21.

          4. @mads, I am pretty sure there had been frantic conversation from him asking the team to confirm Vettel would not pass, it certainly looked like he turned up the wick only when it was too late to defend the position.

        2. If one driver obeys team orders and the other doesn’t then it soon leads to chaos.

          The team won’t be able to rely on either driver to obey orders and it will descend into trouble on and off the track. With both drivers trying to get one over the other within the team.

          Not a good situation for the team overall and the infighting will damage both of them compared with a more unified team chasing them (eg Lotus, Ferrari or Mercedes).

      2. the funny thing was he also asked his team to order his teammate to let him pass earlier in the race. is that racing too? ;)

      3. @bascb – If drivers wish to disobey team orders let them do so, let them then not take help of the team during pit stops, driver should get out of the car, choose the tyres and fit it himself… Also drivers can model the aerodynamics and all the engineering stuff.. Plus they can install a big screen in their car to see what others drivers are doing, their track position, temperature, all data from sensors…

        This is a team sport not an individual one, that is fundamental…

        1. @jjjj – so, I can conclude from this then you actually like team orders? Please – the driver’s egos are an essential part of the sport; if they didn’t then there’d just be a constructors and no drivers championship.

        2. @jjjj – you call it help from the team? Isn’t that the same team that wants to win as well, and wants to put their cars on the best rubber to finish first? Its a team sport, where the team provides the car, the means to race and the team to operate it and the driver should go out and get the car to the finish in the best possible position.

          If you actually think Team orders are fine, we are not going to debate that. But it does mean that we will significantly lower the exitement of races, because teams are unlikely to want their guys to race in the last 1/3rd of the race.

    5. vuelve kowalsky
      24th March 2013, 12:12

      agree. Any german thinking about putting a nickname to vettel? i remember they put one to schumacher in the past. How was it in german scumel schumi or something like that.

      1. It was Schummel-Schumi (Cheating-Schumi).

        What about Fiddle-Vettel or Swindle-Seb? Or you mean German?

    6. If you ignored team orders because you wanted to win this Grand Prix, just say so. I would respect you for that.

      I agree.

      1. Of course drivers can’t ignore team orders. After all drivers are employees and get paid to drive and comply with their contracts otherwise they could be sacked! The team calls the tune, NOT the drivers!

        1. This is a good point that I agree with. Hundreds of personnel at the track and factory slave hours and hours over the cars and then pay the drivers millions to drive them. The drivers are hugely privileged guys, and employees of the team, and should respect any team orders (however much I personally dislike them)

          1. red bull arent going to sack seb and he knows that. he will take the 14 point swing over his team and sleep very well tonight im sure.

        2. Of course drivers can’t ignore team orders. After all drivers are employees and get paid to drive and comply with their contracts otherwise they could be sacked!

          Webber got sacked after Silverstone?

    7. If the team did tell him to hold position and were serious about it, they would of made him give the position back. That’s an example of real team orders and I believe that’s why Webber made the protected call. They are only upset because they were made to look like idiots again by the golden boy.

      1. I’ve thought about this situation for a few hours now and it never occurred to me that RBR should have ordered VET to give the position back. You make an excellent point FunkyF1. RBR had the power to put things right but (apparently) chose not to.

        1. @glennb
          What on earth could Red Bull do to make Vettel give the position back? Weave at him? Throw stones at him? They could have told him to give the position back, but what difference would that have made?

          1. Vettel claims he didn’t know about the orders. And feels bad about it… he is claiming an honourable position.

            So there are three possibilities to consider:

            – what would he have done if had explicitly known he was not to overtake ? would he have stayed behind ? He seems to be claiming that he would have – do you believe that ? or do you believe that this is exactly what happened and he overtook anyway ?

            – or what if he had overtaken and then before the end of the race the team had come on the radio and given him the information that this was in breach of a “no overtake” agreement ? do you believe he would have voluntarily given up the place or taken it anyway ?

            – or what if he had overtaken and before the end of the race the team had ordered him to give the place back ? do you believe he would have ?

            a) he would have stayed behind if he’d known…
            b) he would have given the place back if the team had told him before the end of the race
            Then his apology means nothing but PR spin and he has no moral case to stand on.

            Which outcome do you believe ?

          2. @mads

            I agree, while holding station is one thing that’s mostly accepted. Asking a lead driver to let his team mate past, even in this situation is just asking for a *********.

        2. @glennb – Would Vettel listen and concede the position if he did not obey the earlier order?

          1. We’ll never know. The order was never given.

      2. At least RBR ignored Vettels call for team orders when he told them to get Webber our of the way. Which also shows that Vettel only believes in team orders when they go in his favour!

        It will be very interesting if either Webbers or Vettels engine fails in the next few races, because F1 is a marathon as much as it is a sprint and engines have to last several races – which is why they turn them down.

        Those who want real racing all the way to the end have to also call for the removal of the cost constraint measures and go back to engines that last 1 race + 1 lap.

      3. That reminds me of 1998 Australian GP , when Mclaren called Hakkinen for a stop when he didn’t needed one, later the team ordered Coulthard to give Mika the position back.

        1. (@leonardo-antunes) But wasn’t that a gentleman’s agreement between Hakkinen and Coulthard that whoever reached the first corner first would win the race?

          As far as I can tell this is more akin to Senna passing Prost in Monza under a similar agreement – one driver is racing when the other doesn’t expect it.

          1. But wasn’t that a gentleman’s agreement between Hakkinen and Coulthard that whoever reached the first corner first would win the race?

            by now its well documented, that this was only a spin McLaren gave to it @sgt-pepper.
            Brundle – who was Coulthards Manager for several years, only mentioned this yesterday again when talking about the disruption these things bring for inner team dynamics.

    8. As usual, you’ve nailed it…

      1. @electrolite I feel it’s important of me to state that I’d never pass you if we had arranged something before a race. ;)

        1. I’ll hold you to that when I want my first win…;)

        2. but then its not a “race” is it. its a “game”.

    9. @scuderiavincero @flig @bascb @magnificent-geoffrey

      Problem is that this is not a team order. This is an agreement, made before the race and should have been respected by Webber and Vettel ( in whatever position they were ). So Vettel and Webber had agreed in this agreement.

      If you don’t respect a team order, it’s ok and is NOT something to “not be proud”.
      if you dont respect an agreement,it’s not ok you are not honest and and IS something to “not be proud”.

      The fact that Vettel : “admit that he is not proud” = “he did not respect the agreement”

      But i respect Vettel for saying this in public, it’s not easy…anyway in one of the 17 remain races he have to give a payback for Webber…

      1. @nomore I’ve seem Webber being told to hold position in many occasions before and despite not being pleased about it he usually follows the orders, Seb should have respect his team as a whole and his teammate in particular.

        1. @jcost

          Name one example because I would very much like to hear it.
          We know Silverstone 2011 isn’t such a case.

          And even in Brazil 2012 it took Webber half a race to realize his chances on winning the title were long gone.

          1. f1fannl, you are like a broken record ( a plastic thing like a CD that stored music). Webber made a show of not obeying team orders at Silverstone for a very good reason and also just to show he could have, but he didn’t, just as Rosberg showed today that he could have, but he didn’t.
            I am no fan of team orders but the rules and tyres as they are now make them unavoidable if a team is to succeed.

          2. @hohum

            Webber made a show of not obeying team orders at Silverstone for a very good reason and also just to show he could have, but he didn’t, just as Rosberg showed today that he could have, but he didn’t.

            Donkey doodoo. Webber listens to team orders when it suits him. Now that the shoe was on the other foot he cries. End of story.

            At Silverstone he tried his best to get passed but couldn’t. He even admitted that. Rosberg tried and succeeded but got overtaken immediately after. Then asked the team to tell Hamilton to get out of his way and ultimately held position. The two instances are nothing alike.

      2. @nomore, I really fail to see the difference you try to make between a “team order” and an “agreement” to enact the same made before the race. When Radio was not as good, and when TO were officially not allowed, it was all too common to agree on team strategy beforehand, and not all to unusual to include things like holding station after the last stop, in case both cars would be leading etc.
        There is no difference between the two.

        Personally I don’t like team orders, and I do not like teams for using them, especially this early in the season and to decide race wins. Therefore its good when drivers show they will not have any of it and go out to race. without it we would have a wholly boring formation flying last 22 or so laps from the lead 4 cars yesterday.

    10. Agreed – he should’ve just come out and said it. Unless his radio messages prove otherwise I don’t accept these comments.

      1. Bet those radio messages will never see the light of day.

        1. @hatebreeder – probably, sadly. I wish FOM would incorporate the team radios more into the races and have better race reviews – I feel it’s a wasted resource.

    11. Dude, just think for a minute. He canNOT admit it – his team would eat him alive.
      We all know he wanted the win, he got it, it’s fine.

    12. +1 I don’t believe him either… he just looks like a bit of an **** to claim it

  4. I don’t believe him either – I doubt he cares very much; he won the race and that’s given him the championship lead, so this PR talk is disguising a deep sense of satisfaction.

    1. firstLapNutcaseGrosjean (@)
      24th March 2013, 11:52

      Oh..that PR is for Webber. Not for us.

      1. It is for us, that PR speak is to try and polish the tarnish on his image. Before today there was always doubt about whether Vettel intentionally cheated his team mate, today there is no doubt and there may be some sponsors who do not feel that selfish and untrustworthy are characteristics they want to be associated with.

    2. Yep, its disappointing. As someone tweeted, he would have gained a lot more respect if he just told the world he is in it to win, so why would he not take the chance.

      Actually I am glad for him ignoring a team order, just as it was good to see Webber ignoring orders to slow down in Silverstone 2011. But the lame way of handling it is not endearing.

      Shame Webber did not react in time, turn up the wick too and we could have a sensational battle to the end. Had Rosberg done the same too, this could have been epic, even if then Hamilton had won it for steadily driving to the finish when Vettel, Webber and Rosberg crash out :-)

      1. @bascb – I suspect he’s just trying to salvage some working relationship with Webber, but I agree he should just have come out and said it – we all know he knew fine well what he was doing (unless radio evidence proves otherwise).

        1. Hamilton did a far better job in that respect, admitting it felt a bit unfair to Rosberg.

          1. @bascb – maybe it’s just Vettel’s English is not so good! :P (reference to Schumacher’s Top Gear interview by the way)

          2. @vettel1 Yeah right, language problem. He proved to be very profficient in English over the radio: “He’s too slow. Get him out of the way” No mistakes there…

          3. @klaas *sigh* – it was quite clearly a sarcastic comment, hence the “:P”

        2. I suspect he’s just trying to salvage some working relationship with Webber


          Hes doing a terrible job of it. I think Mark would probably appreciate his teammate to give him an straight forward reply instead of all this cover up PR bs that no one buys

      2. @bascb

        Actually I am glad for him ignoring a team order

        Frankly, I don’t understand those of you who are so giddy about Vettel’s having directly disobeyed a valid, easily-understood order from his team. Where I come from, we would call that “gross insubordination,” and it’s certainly not something for one to be proud of.

        1. Well, yes, but we are not in the army here, are we?

          If everyone just follows orders, its unlikely that we will ever get to see an outstanding driver do something special on track. The ultimate / extreme of going along with team orders and everyone being subject to strict orders as how to execute the optimal strategy as decided by the computer and strategists, would be going back to refueling, tyres lasting for ever and deciding races only by who built the best car and strategy/tactics.
          If we want the drivers to have a decisive role in this, we want them to be calling the shots often enough to see a Button choose the right tyres in the wet-ish (or the wrong ones), to see a Vettel ignore an order to park it and bring the car home in 3rd on half the cylinders and with shot brakes, and also to see a driver decide he can get past the guy in front without crashing, and without failing to make it to the finish because his tyres are shot.

          I do understand that the way he did it, and what he said and in the sport as it is, this was ultimately not a move that is going to bring him many friends, and it certainly won’t make life easy inside the team, but it did give him a win and a few extra points that might well come in handy at the end of the year, especially with Alonso not scoring. it also made sure Seb and Mark are not equal on points after this race

          I am not even sure the team will hold it against him on the long term. After all, wasn’t it Ron Dennis who mentioned how “Competitive animals know no limits’. – talking about Alonso after seperating ways with him. He ment is as a show of respect for the driver

    3. What Seb really said: I know the team convinced Mark not to push and he fell for it. It wasn’t really nice for us to trick him like that but in the end I won and that what’s the only thing that counts. I know Mark feels betrayed but nobody in the team really cares about his feelings, the sooner he understands this the better for him (and us). Good thing Mercedes used some team tactics too so now Papa Marko can divert all the dirt that will be thrown at us by the media in Brackley’s yard. Ha ha…

      1. Actually I think Vettel was surprised by the lack of understanding he got from his team.

        1. @bascb, the team understood only too well, Vettel didn’t, but now the Blondie that stands behind him at interviews to make sure he doesn’t spoil his “golden-boy” image has explained to him that a lot of people don’t like greedy selfish and untrustworthy people he is following the script to pretend it was all just a misunderstanding.

          1. yes, that was more disappointing than the incident on track really @hohum. After all, we all want to see them racing, not coasting home, don’t we?

    4. An objective view from a Vettel fan! I agree though, its all PR…

    5. I am not so sure RB is too satisfied with this, because it shows they have no control on their driver, and therefore, it may happen that he plays against team interest.
      I am not a fan of VET, and considering that WEB always played team player for VET championshipS, I feel the the guy has been a spoiled child for too long…

      1. Oh come on, team’s interest means Seb’s interest. Now they’ll just have to offer Webber a raise so that Mark can react properly (just like after his KERS failure): “These things happen”.

  5. Shreyas Mohanty (@)
    24th March 2013, 11:51

    I simply don’t believe the guy. I am not saying he is a villain – but that was very very inconsiderate of him, a second place wouldn’t have harmed him – it would have harmed his damn ego, that’s why he made that move – ignoring his team.

    1. That’s what its all about EGO. Vettel as the mind of a child, not a man.

      1. @ivz – no, the mind of a racer. If Alonso say was in the same position you could be damned sure he would’ve done the same.

        1. He went against team orders, the team that has basically given him everything. As much as he wants to race and win, he has to respect the team. He would not be a 3 time world champion if it wasn’t for Red Bull. If Red Bull said “its all go, race each other, but be careful”, then its a different story.

          1. @ivz

            Mark Webber disobeys team orders- hero.
            Sebastian Vettel disobeys team orders- villain.

            Yeah, I get exactly what you’re saying.

          2. @david-a +1! If the postings were reversed, I very much doubt we’d be seeing the same arguments…

          3. Yes, it does seem to be that way @vettel1, @david-a, and that is why, even when I do not feel completely comfortable with being on “vettels side here”, I do support him in the matter.

            I do not like seeing teams give team orders, so having drivers ignore them shows they have a racing spirit (I like this view on it).

            Only the way he handled the aftermath was not up to par, sadly.

          4. @david-a Unlike Sebastian, Mark told it straight that he wasn’t going to obey team orders – period.
            Seb acted like a b****. He knew very well he was scre*ing Mark, why did he choose to be a hypocrite then, and apologise for something he obviously didn’t regret?

          5. @klaas – I don’t agree with or believe the apology Vettel issued. He hasn’t got much to feel sorry for. It was for PR purposes, and doesn’t in any way make him an expletive.

            But you have people who are against Vettel’s actions today (despite treating a similar scenario differently) and would be regardless of what he said afterwards. That is what is annoying.

          6. @david-a One must admit that those people wouldn’t have anything to base their anti-Vettel claims if only Seb didn’t give them a hand by coming up with that post-race BS. In his case the best PR was to shut up or tell the truth. As I mentioned above this is exactly what converts Vettel from Racer of the Day into B**** of the Day.

          7. @klaas – Yet people were making similar comments in the Rate The Race thread earlier, which went up even before the podium interviews were done and apology was issued. Hence quite a few people commented based purely on the ignored team order, which showed a clear double standard, given the reaction to the same situation 2 years ago.

            And continuing to swear isn’t helping you come across any better.

          8. @david-a You can adress directly to those people’s wrongs if you care so much. I’m answering only for my opinions in which there aren’t any double standards.

          9. @klaas – I have debated it with some of those people. But I see nothing wrong with what I said here. I do not believe the backlash is down to Vettel’s “apology”, and there was a double standard because Vettel is criticized for something that another driver was praised for.

          10. @david-a My and other people’s (not all) backlash towards Vettel is down to exactly that pathetic apology. And I explained the difference between Vettel and the ‘praised driver’ a few comments ago, please don’t pretend you have ignored it.

          11. @klaas – I already said that I did not believe the apology was genuine, so I didn’t ignore that.

            But if Vettel was “screwing” Webber as you claimed, then is that not a criticism of his on-track actions, rather than the apology? Wasn’t Webber doing the same thing, and therefore open to the same criticism for his on-track actions?

          12. No, because there’s a difference if I punched you in the nose on purpouse and said “take that @david-a I want to hurt you” and if punched you on purpouse and then apologised when everyone was watching so that I don’t look so bad. Take it as a joke but I think the comparison is proper in this case.
            So it was with Vettel, he knew well that by overtaking Mark he is going to take the win. Why come and say that it was Webber’s win then and apologize?

          13. @david-a +1. The same if Alonso or Ham do this…. they are heros all the time

            “Alonso chose to stay one more lap with the nosecone broken” people will say “Yeah because he is a brave man!!”

        2. @vettel1 on the other hand, Lewis was feeling very sorry about his ‘buddy’ Nico, too bad he didn’t tell Ross Brawn to let Nico pass and stomach the points loss.

          1. @jcost

            but Hamilton could have just pullled over and let Rosberg through. He may feel bad for his buddy, but he’s wanting those 3 extra points.

        3. I don’t think Alonso would feel the need to go against team orders. Because he’d understand why they were doing it.

          1. @mike

            I agree, Alonso would never go against the team when they’re trying to get him more points.

          2. @f1fannl

            Haha, I was thinking that!

        4. @vettel1, it’s not racing unless the other guy is racing too. What it was was a sneak attack like Pearl Harbor.

          1. @hohum – ah, but it’s not exactly as if Mark was completely caught off-guard: Vettel had to chase down a 5 second gap first, the actually pass him, so Webber could’ve easily just turned on full attack mode.

          2. @vettel1, had Webber known that Vettel was going to disregard team orders and had he not been given team orders then no doubt he would have stayed in full race mode so that Vettel could not gain that 5 secs that Webber had on him, Vettel only caught up because Webber had been assured that NO-ONE was a danger to him if he reduced his pace to “high 1:39s”

          3. @hohum

            Than Webber must be incredibly dense.

            What was he expecting when Vettel showed up in his mirrors for the THIRD time in the race? That they were gonna hold hands as they crossed the finish line?! Come on…

      2. ramy (@ramysennaf1)
        24th March 2013, 12:14

        it seems that there are many people agreeing with me that vettel has a behavior of entitlement and a mind of a child who thinks the world is his own :)

        1. The mob is whipping itself into a frenzy today, for sure.

      3. I agree Vettle is for himself, I hope mark has the chance to spoil this spoilt brats championship hopes.

        1. Shreyas Mohanty (@)
          24th March 2013, 13:28

          @spartacus : I hope Alonso does it. Actually, I know Alonso will do it.

          1. @shreyasf1fan Bold claims! Same guy who said Alonso will chow the Red Bull off the line and be leading by the first corner, right? Crystal ball a bit rusty there.

          2. @serv +1! Bet Alonso running into the back of Vettel wasn’t part of that prediction ;)

          3. Well, his front wing for a short moment was the fastest thing on the track.

      4. Shreyas Mohanty (@)
        24th March 2013, 13:25

        @ivz : Exactly, mate.

        1. @serv

          2013 F1 WDC is not decided after malaysian GP.. we have another 17 races to go.. I am seconding @ShreyasF1fan ‘s Bold Claims … and I am sure we are not the only two…

          It was unfortunate that Alonso had to retire… but we know he will be back…

          1. Hey, @shreyasf1fan and @puneethvb I am not suggesting Alonso is not going to win the championship. He probably has the same chances as Vettel and Kimi by the looks of it. But to say “I know he will win it” this early…that’s what I meant by a bold claim.

            By the way, do you think the front wing half dragging on the ground like that would’ve lasted until it was time to change tyres? (accroding to the race report on here, Webber didn’t knock it off)

        2. Shreyas Mohanty (@)
          2nd April 2013, 13:36

          @serv : Yes, I think it would have lasted with some caution from Alonso. Well, yes, I checked later as well and Webber didn’t nock it off – he started the process, though. The wet track made it harder for Alonso and bam, out of the race.

    2. The harm would have been that Webber would have had a victory to his name. Consider the points between Vettel and webber – it is 14 points other way around! So this is why Vettel did what he did. Taking Webber out of the Championship race bit by bit. If Red Bull is the fastest car this year then Webber is Vettel’s nr 1 competition… was…

      1. Shreyas Mohanty (@)
        25th March 2013, 4:27

        @f1lauri : NO, Vettel has never been or never will be Vettel’s no.1 competition. HIs no.1 competitors are Alonso and Raikkonen. Webber has too many flaws to properly challenge Vettel for a title.

        1. Shreyas Mohanty (@)
          2nd April 2013, 13:38

          @f1lauri : Webber*

    3. Shreyas Mohanty (@)
      24th March 2013, 16:05

      @serv : Yes, and it was very possible Alonso would have done exactly that. It was just pure bad luck – the team and Alonso together had decided that they would wait for the track to dry so that that the wing can be changed in the same stop where the slicks will be put on. It would have worked out quite well – if, Webber hadn’t made contact with Alonso ( If that was intentional or not we have no way of knowing . So yeah, crystal ball is still shiny, and has predicted correctly that Alonso will win the Championship – why? Cos Ferrari has the pace to beat Red Bull – have you seen RBR’s straight-line speed? One of the lowest on the grid!

      1. RBR has always opted for a high downforce car and they’ve always had one of the lowest straight line speeds. Not sure what you’re aiming at with that comment?
        I also believe it was Alonso touching Vettel in Turn 2 causing the crooked wing, not webber passing Alonso a few seconds later.

        Liked how it was described by a BBC commentator:
        ‘This is what happens when a prancing horse kisses a bull’

        1. Shreyas Mohanty (@)
          25th March 2013, 17:33

          @stijnzer : I am not talking about the how the wing got crooked, I am talking about how the crooked wing came off the car -Webber.

    4. @shreyasf1fan

      I am not saying he is a villain

      Well you should, because he IS a villain!

      1. @joepa

        Yeah, I saw him using the dark side of the force to break Alonso’s wing beam.

        True story.

        1. Alonso? Alonso’s running into the back of Vettel doesn’t have anything to do w/ Vettel’s treachery and subterfuge against his own teammate, Webber. Nice attempt at misdirection!

    5. a second place wouldn’t have harmed him

      A second place would have meant a whole lot if he had lost the title with 6 points or less.

  6. the weaving he did when he crossed the finish line tells the otherwise..

    1. +++1

      And now that Vettel has apologized, would he gladfully “return” a win to Webber next time they are running 1-2?
      I can imagine Helmut Marko barking Vettel’s ears telling him not to even bother entertaining that though.

    2. James (@chairmanmeowmeow)
      24th March 2013, 21:28


      And how WEB crossed the line as far as possible from the pit wall was quite telling.

  7. You have thought twice before the move.

    1. oops, I messed up grammar. You should have thought twice…might be?

  8. Traverse (@)
    24th March 2013, 11:52

    Why is he apologising? He won the race. If at the end of the season Vettel wins the WDC, he’ll look back at this moment and think ‘I did the right thing’. Winning is all that matters in F1, friendship is for losers.

    As for cry baby Webber, GROW UP!! I thought you were made of Aussie grit, not pink fluffy marshmallows.

    1. Traverse (@)
      24th March 2013, 11:53

      *Vettel wins the WDC by 5 points

    2. If the team instructed both drivers to bring the cars home and then one ignores that and decides he’s going balls out to pass, then that’s not fair.

      At the very least he should have told Webber up front that he wasn’t agreeing. Now he just sucker punched Webber.

      1. +infinity

        The fact that it wasn’t a fair fight is the crux of this issue for me. Red Bull allowed Vettel to undercut Webber to close the gap between them and Webber was also running in a low engine mode under the assurance that Vettel would not pass him.

        Like you say Vettel sucker punched Webber. Horner didn’t have the balls to explicitly give an order to Vettel not to overtake, nor did he demand that Vettel give back the position after he made the overtake. Ross Brawn by comparison was very authoratative. He explicitly stated to Rosberg in no uncertain terms that he was not allowed to pass Hamilton.

    3. @hellotraverse +1! I think Alonso or Hamilton would’ve done exactly the same thing in the same position, which says a lot about why they’re the best a they take every opportunity they can get and think about the consequences afterwards.

    4. @hellotraverse

      As for cry baby Webber, GROW UP!! I thought you were made of Aussie grit, not pink fluffy marshmallows.


    5. Why did Webber complain and Vettel apologize? Precisely because they both want to win this season. And they both want the team as much as possible on their side. Vettel’s extra points without a profuse apology would probably not be so much of a bonus with the ill feeling generated and a potentially very hostile and provoked Webber.

      Webber on the other hand knows that Vettel has gotten away with snatching extra points and the initiative already this season. Much like Alonso sneaking past Massa on the way to the pits a couple of years back. It’s sneaky but doubly effective – more points and putting one over the other driver. It will be interesting to see what Webber comes up with in response.

    6. How bout when mark Webber ignored team order at Silverstone 2011, many praised his action and today Vettel did the same people slash him. Hypocrite

      1. Sorry mate, you are backing the wrong tree…. Team order at Silverston 2011? Wake up!!!

      2. The big difference being that today Vettel asked for RBR to use team orders to get Webber out of his way earlier in the race but then ignored team orders to keep to 2nd place and let Webber win. I see hypocrisy here and it’s only on Vettel’s side of this story.

        1. That doesn’t stop Webber from also being a hypocrite.
          He disobeys team orders and he is fine with it, but when Vettel returns of the “favour” then he starts crying and takes the victim role once again.
          You can call both hypocrites or neither of them hypocrites.
          They are equally guilty.

          1. The Next Pope
            25th March 2013, 19:16

            @mads I think Webber is at least man enough to admit he ‘wanted’ to try and get a place. (Silverstone 2011)
            Seb came out a backstabber here. Oh not to mention, “Mark is too slow. Get him out of the way!”.

    7. How about when Webber ignored team order at Silverstone 2011, many praised his action, today Vettel did it and people slash him. Hypocrite

      1. The Next Pope
        25th March 2013, 19:31

        Because Webber was looking out for himself, and was man enough to admit it? While Vettel cried like a baby on the radio, weaved his car at the checkered flag, so proud of his win until he realised it was a big mistake, while still getting protected by the team? Expect it that many will side with Webber.

    8. Red Bull have given him a car to win these last three seasons. Perhaps when you think about that, you may understand that winning also requires a decent car to do it in and therefore, making them look stupid isn’t in the long term the best idea.

      Webber is unhappy because he had the pace to beat Seb, but turned down the engine and then was stabbed in the back. To be honest, if you don’t get annoyed by that then you are not a ‘racer’ either.

    9. While I agree with much of what you’ve said, I don’t think it’s friendship Vettel’s after or what he’s hurt. If the two drivers had a gentleman’s agreement not to race after the last stop and Webber relied on that to his detriment then I can’t help but feel Vettel was being unsportsman like. Then again maybe I’m being naive in believing that there are still gentleman racers or that agreements between men are worth anything.

      1. Traverse (@)
        24th March 2013, 15:13


        I don’t think it’s friendship Vettel’s after

        Neither do I. What Vettel is after is Schumi’s Record of 7 WDC’s, and he’s not going to win 8 WDC by letting Webber waste vital points (let’s face it, Webber is never going to win anything).

        Then again maybe I’m being naive in believing that there are still gentleman racers or that agreements between men are worth anything.

        Unless both parties sign on the dotted line, you should always assume that the other person will screw you over. Only a naive person would trust a “gentleman’s agreement” in a sport as cut-throat as F1.

        1. @hellotraverse

          Only a naive person would trust a “gentleman’s agreement” in a sport as cut-throat as F1.

          Well that’s poor reasoning for Vettel’s possible breach of an agreement. Saying “it’s ok for me to be cutthroat, because this sport is cutthroat” is tautological.
          Others have talked all day about the sporting merits of Hamilton saying he wished Rosberg was on the podium, yet in something such as keeping a sporting agreement (markedly different from team orders in my view) which I suspect Vettel broke I think his actions were unsporting and possibly deceitful.

          1. It was more than a sporting agreement, and more than team orders, it was a tactical decision to ensure maximum success for both team and drivers by looking after the cars and tyres and minimising the risk of premature gearbox or engine failure in future let alone the risk of collision damage or tyres going “off the cliff” and failing to finish 1,2.
            My fervent hope is that Vettels gearbox will have early failure as a result and his 5 grid-spot penalty will end like Alonso’s race did today.

          2. Yes you could rightly take the view that Vettel was not merely having a fair race for a Grand Prix win, he was jeopardising the entire team’s hard work and efforts, something that he had no right to do.

  9. Well, then don’t fight so ridiculously hard for the victory, simple as that.

  10. It’s the same with Hamilton. They’re just making smokescreen.

    1. How is it the same?

      Red Bull:
      – Webber was leading, but he was slower,
      – Vettel was told to back off and he didn’t obey,
      – people complain.

      – Hamilton was leading, but he was slower,
      – Rosberg was told to back off and he did listen,
      – people complain.

      Did you expect Vettel to back off? If so, you should expect Rosberg to do the same.
      Did you expect Nico to overtake Lewis? Well then you shouldn’t complain about Sebastian.

      Have some consistency people!

      1. @maroonjack +1! It’s ironic really that these are the same people that talk of double standards at Red Bull…

      2. Because Webber wasn’t slower. At the time of infamous whining he was lapping clearly faster than Vettel, which propmpted Vettels pleas to get him out of his way. He got slower after the third pitstop when he was ordered to rev-down his engine. While it seems Vettel was not, contrary to what the team insists.

        Whereas Rosberg was clearly faster than Hamilton and asked for permission to pass. Still can’t see the difference?

        1. “He got slower after the third pitstop when he was ordered to rev-down his engine. While it seems Vettel was not..”
          Isn’t that the same thing Hamilton was told to do, while it seems Nico was not..until after he had passed Lewis Hamilton twice-in 2 short laps-without being able to hold onto the positions gained on both occasions.
          If you were the team principal, what would you do? Sacrifice vital points and money too as the 2 battle for position.

          1. Hamilton had a fuel problem and had to slow down. Webber need not have slowed down at all , he did because he kept his part of the agreement . And after the pitstops , both of them were asked to turn engine down and coast to a 1-2 . Vettel just went on with it and overtook webber while he had a superior engine setting to webber. Only one thing I don’t get is Rosberg could have easily passed Hamilton in DRS zone as he was clearly faster and ross told not to .where is the risk in that ?

          2. @hamilfan – I somehow doubt that Webber didn’t either have to save fuel or his engine, otherwise he’d just turn it back up again to defend against Vettel. The team don’t control these things, the drivers do and if he felt he needed to and it wouldn’t compromise his race he could have just fought back.

          3. @hamilfan _ There is always something to save in motor racing. If it’s not fuel, it’s tyres or gear box or engine etc. There may be other reasons why mark was told to rev down apart from the team being in a comfortable position to win.

          4. @vettel1,@latina Maybe they did not want to risk another collision and mark obliged (That’s not what he should have done by the way : If vettel breaches an order so should he ) . But Mark went for the more sensible option to collect some points rather than go for vettel . Again, my point is either
            1) Go all out against team orders (arguably the best option) (or)
            2) Follow team orders
            Don’t use team orders when you want to pass your teammate and then show the finger to your team when they ask you something . That’s why RBR are pissed at him . Don’t you think they would wan’t him to be a 4 times world champion after all this success . Again for those of you who say , Maximizing team strategy isn’t the best , then let vettel and webber have it out with their own infinity cars .
            They could have just let both of them race each other with engines fully on right from when they were 1-2 without one driver having to compromise the other . I am looking forward to how Webber reacts on the track to this .

        2. @cyclops_pl

          Watch the race again and you’ll see that Vettel was faster for almost the entire race.

          1. @f1fannl, Sure Vettel was faster all race long, so please explain how he was behind Webber.

          2. @hohum

            Because Red Bull failed to realize where Vettel would end up after the pitstop.

            That’s another thing I find funny about some comments. People suggesting Webber deserved to win because he made the right call with the first pitstop. He didn’t make any calls at all. Or did people miss the overly obvious radio message to Webber to “Stay Out!” after they had realized releasing Vettel into a group of cars wasn’t exactly a smart decision.

      3. I agree. I think, like the F1F mugs say: “REAL RACERS DON’T NEED TEAM ORDERS”

        So I’m happy for Seb and dissapoined for Nico’s team

        1. The Next Pope
          25th March 2013, 19:37

          Don’t bring Merc into this. It wasn’t the issue of team orders, it’s Seb’s character flaw that seems to be shocking here. ;]
          He knifed Webber when he put his guard down.

  11. “But right now I want to say the truth.”

    Truth = The words from our PR director

  12. Honestly, this is why I am angry he didn’t listen to team orders. I hate team orders, but with his petulant behavior, I can never side with him.

    But if instead he held his ground, admitted he disobeyed team orders and gave sufficient explanation, I may side with him.

    But not like this. The apology is insincerity of the highest order.

    1. Totally agree.

      If the team championship wan’t so important, I would want the team to suspend him for a race or two and give the reserve driver some experience.

  13. Traverse (@)
    24th March 2013, 11:56

    If the great Ayrton Senna was alive today, who would he admire more, Hamilton and Vettel or Rosberg and Webber?

    1. Schumacher

      1. Traverse (@)
        24th March 2013, 12:02

        precisely! He’d respect Schumi because he was a ruthless, cut-throat, take no prisoners WDC.

        1. If A Senna still alive then Schumi would never be champion

    2. Ayrton was a man of his word. If he’d agreed to something he wouldn’t go against his word later.

      1. Ehm, if you truely believe that, I suppose there’s not much sense in discussing what led to the first on track inter team tangle with Prost then.
        To me it looks like this being not all that different a situation.

        1. @bascb if memory serves me it was Imola 1989 – it was alleged the confusion was that prost considered tamburello to be the first corner ‘whoever was leading to first corner’ whereas senna considered tosa as first corner because tamburello and villeneuve are taken flat out. Senna out broke Prost into tosa and took the lead…

          1. thats the one @me262!

      2. Traverse (@)
        24th March 2013, 12:14

        Senna would’ve done exactly what Vettel did today. I’d bet my life on it!

        1. Vettel is here to race and to compete with other drivers for the victory. Normally, everyone does it. F1 is getting bored day by day with these silly team orders.

          1. So is Mark but when you’re told to turn down the engine and back off as there is no threat from any other team then you turn down the engine and back off, you don’t keep pushing and overtake your team mate who has turned his engine down and backed off.

            You may not like team orders but there is a world of difference between this situation and the sort of thing we saw in Austria in 2002; today Red Bull (and Mercedes) made the right decision and Vettel should have done as he was told, just as Rosberg did.

          2. @beneboy

            Almost like when you’re told to look after the tyres and back off as there is no threat from any other team then you look after the tyres and back off, you don’t keep pushing and overtake your team mate who has turned his engine down and backed off. But this being Silverstone 2011.

            Or is there some unwritten rule that makes it different when Webber is the recipient?

        2. He would, but he would never say sorry… He would be: you’re a racer be a racer… That why he still had most people’s respect…

        3. @hellotraverse it still would not be something to be proud about. Cease fire is cease fire.

    3. Why does that matter? Senna was a racing driver with notable flaws, one of them being aggressive to the point of being dangerous. Senna was one of the greatest drivers of all time, not the second coming. His hypothetical and unknowable opinion on today’s GP mean nothing.

    4. answer: Vettel

      why? because he’ll do anything to win.

  14. Liar… that is all.

  15. This guy reminds me of Lance Armstrong.

    He says it’s Marks win and also says he had no idea of the team orders???

    Basically he’s saying that the team never ever gave him team orders.

    Vettell is a highly protected species at RBR and it ain’t changing.

    1. He’s low but hes not that low. He didn’t even blood dope

      1. He’s a well trained generic PR machine like Armstrong.

        1. @hpward Oh don’t start with such nonsense. Armstrong and Vettel are nothing alike. No F1 driver is like Armstrong.

    2. Nonsense. I don’t like Vettel at all and his behaviour towards his team and teammate was appalling and showed just how little he regards his Red-Bull team but to compare him to Armstrong is out of order.

      1. How about Bernie & Armstrong ;)

    3. @howard – disobeying team orders (which is a perfectly legal thing to do) and blood doping (which is a perfectly illegal thing to do) are very different things. By all means criticise his comments (as I have) but don’t draw such ridiculous comparisons, it just rubbishes your argument.

      1. Absolutely! Some comments here are just complete hyperbole with no substantive argument. Rubbish indeed!

  16. I wouldn’t blame him at all for wanting to take the victory. It’s what drivers do. But by asking the team to “get him (Mark) out of the way,” he’s just lost a lot of respect.

    1. Aaron (@tripperhead)
      24th March 2013, 12:16

      This is where he lost me. Wants team orders when it’s not in his favour, ignores them later. I’d be more likely to forgive this had he not cried on the radio earlier.

      1. The Next Pope
        25th March 2013, 19:46

        Yeah, people seem to have forgotten about this one. Would have not minded too much at first, if this race had not ended the way it did.

    2. Rosberg did the same with Hamilton. Alonso does the same constantly with Massa. Schumacher did it with Barrichello and Massa. Senna did it as well… It’s nothing new.

  17. This is nonsense – driver is apologising for not obeying team orders. I know that teams run their business and want to be successful, to score maximum points, but they shouldn’t forget, that millions of people are watching F1 around the globe. And fight for the lead was the most fascinating thing during this race, it was cracking. Robbing such moments from fans is showing disrespect. Maybe next time they will agree before the race, which driver must win? F1 is sport and it should be about fighting for win.

    1. Aaron (@tripperhead)
      24th March 2013, 12:21

      That’d be fine if it cost $5 to enter every race. When it’s hundreds of millions of dollars for a team, and winning the constructors championship pays so much, it’s a team sport, whether we like it or not.

    2. It is… or are you one of those people who conveniently forget that F1 is a team sport, & the constructor’s championship is what pays the team real money? Vettel acts as if he’s bigger than the team. Without team Red Bull, no Sebastian Vettel 3 time WDC. The driver’s championship isn’t the only part of the sport. The teams are comprised of hundreds & thousands of individuals who put their hard work, blood, sweat & tears into giving these guys world class machinery to run around in on race weekends, & Vettel just gave his team a big middle finger as if he’s the only one in team Red Bull that matters, or that he’s doing them a favor taking their millions & driving their car.

      1. Don’t forget where those money come from – fans. Fans also pay money for opportunity watch race on the track or through television, buying merchandise and etc. And then, they are robbed from seeing real racing.

        1. I was looking online last night at three possible races to attend this year and the prices of the tickets. After today’s debacle why would anyone pay that much money to watch the teams NOT race untill the end? I understand team orders have gone on forever but doesn’t this take the “sport” of it? Not to start an argument, how many times have you ever seen IndyCar or NASCAR coasting to the end of a race (not counting a last lap crash)

    3. Take a look at where Vettel finally went past Webber, and you can clearly see he could have got run off track or even worse, they could both have been knocked out if Webber decided to play hard. So As much as you can applaud Vettel making the attempt to get past, so also must you appreciate Webber had the right to defend strongly, even at the risk to both cars.

    4. If cars are going to race at maximum all the time, then the financial constraint rules will have to be removed, so there is no need to turn engines down. Then you will see real racing between 2 or 3 big teams and only 10 cars on the grid. These rules have resulted in a series where a car from 5 or 6 teams could win a race, which I think is a lot more exciting that the occassional last laps battle between teammates.

      Also you have to remember that telling team drivers to conserve their engines for the next race is no where near as bad as telling one driver to move over for the other.

    5. Webber had turned his engine down. Without team orders, obviously he wouldn’t have done that so ironically your argument is flawed. This racing was great, but to say it was because team orders were ignored is missing the point because one driver did and the other didn’t.

      1. But he saw Vettel coming, so he could turn it at maximum again.

        1. The Next Pope
          25th March 2013, 19:48

          I keep reading that Webber was assured Vettel wasn’t gonna attack? I haven’t heard it myself.

  18. Mark did the right thing when he ignored orders and so did Vettel today.

    1. But Seb doesn’t acknowledge that he did in fact ingore orders. Instead, he is claiming the contrary (unlike Mark in the past) and this reeks of insolence to me.

    2. vuelve kowalsky
      24th March 2013, 12:26

      agree, but don’t apologize for it. Go ahead and tell it like it is, and may be compensate at the end of the year, if there is a chance.
      Rosberg was the one everybody should be talking about. he was robbed of a podium.

  19. it’s not that simple!! coming up to the final pit-stops Mark was told Seb was not a threat and so he turned down his engine and I’m sure that also played a factor in him choosing the HARD tyres, choosing the tyre that would most likely last to the end of the race.. If he knew that the race was on I’m sure he would have chosen the MEDIUMS as he was on low fuel and they clearly had higher performace.. in the end it was the difference between the HARD and MEDIUM tyres that proved the difference between the two drivers and that’s what allowed Seb to pass..

    Seb did not win that race fair and square and that’s what Mark is upset about.. he got stabbed in the back with the undercut and choice of MEDIUMS and engine map set to FULL.

    1. Mark was happier on the hard tyres, the stint he did on medium tyres is what eroded the lead he had built up.
      Since it was a wet race at the start, they didn’t have to run both compounds, so he could’ve easily done all his stints on hards.
      That point is invalid.

      Everything else is up for discussion though.

      1. Let’s not forget that Mark had only one set of new medium before the race, he had to put hard tyres in his last pitstop.

        1. why did mark only have one set of mediums? and just because mediums on high fuel aren’t quicker doesn’t mean that is the case on low feul..

          if you were listening to the pre-podium conversations between SV & Adrian Newey you would have heard them say that the medium was a much quicker tyre for final stint.. sure WEB has high deg on high fuel but low fuel is a different matter..

          Also, Ross Brawn also admitted in post race interview that choosing HARDs for last stint for HAM & ROS was a mistake for last stint as well..

          so respectfully disagree that this is an invalid point!

          1. Mark had only one set of mediums because he used two in qualifying, while Vettel made it through Q3 with only one set.

            Clearly Webber was comfortable with the hards, and since he had new hard tyres, it wouldn’t have made sense to use old mediums.

          2. they qualified on INTERS

          3. and mark only used one set of INTERS while seb used 2 in Q3?!?!?

  20. After reading Vettel’s “apology”, my trusty **-o-meter entered the red zone.

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