Pirelli: Most teams support aggressive tyres

2013 Bahrain Grand Prix

Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, Shanghai, 2013Pirelli motorsport director Paul Hembery says the majority of F1 teams support the aggressive tyres which are being used this year.

The paddock is split on the subject with some drivers and teams criticising the tyres and others supporting them.

But according to Hembery eight of the eleven teams have told them not to change the tyres: “It’s really bizarre because behind the scenes we actually get a lot of lobbying from people telling us not to change things.”

“There’s obviously a media-led point of view which comes from the drivers and then behind the scenes we’ve had a lot of lobbying. I think there’s now eight teams that have come to us, written to us, emailled us and said ‘whatever you do, don’t change anything’. So we’re in a bizarre situation, really.”

Much of the criticism is focused on the extent to which drivers have to back off to preserve their tyres. Hembery said that kind of limitation is not unusual for F1:

“You race to the package you’ve got. In this case it’s tyre-limited in some cases – it’s been like that through history in many ways. You still find at the end of the race it’s going to be the fastest car and the best driver on the day.

“It’s a bit like saying ‘can I have another hundred horsepower more?’ These engines could easily do more. So it’s where you want to take it.

“We got asked to replicate Canada 2010. If you remember that race it was quite a novel race compared to the format of races during that period in time. That’s the input we’ve have and the impact we’ve been asked to continue giving.”

China soft “intended as a qualifying tyre”

The soft tyres used in China came in for particular criticism as no driver spent more than seven laps on them during the race. Hembery said: “We intended that really to be almost like a [qualifying] tyre.”

“It was to push the people that needed to use it to get the time and then you found at the start of the race they had to pit early. The hope there was more of the Q2 teams would take the harder option.

“They didn’t, actually, and we were surprised by that, because that would have enabled them to gain position on the circuit and made it harder or made it more interesting as the Q3 guys come charging through. That was the idea, it wasn’t intended really as a race proposition.”

He added the decision not to bring the soft tyre to Bahrain was made before the race in China: “The Sunday night after Malaysia we thought that race went ahead with really not too many issues so we thought we’d bring the same combination here, being very similar in terms of temperature and quite an abrasive track.”

Hembery said any future decision on whether to change the tyres would be weighed against the effect it might have on the championship:

“We will do a review after the race here on Sunday night and we’ll probably decide what we do Monday, Tuesday before we get to Spain. You’ve got to be careful because if you make changes during the season – say for example we’ve made a change and one or two teams suddenly made a big jump forward you’d be now asking you’ve just favoured a few other people’.”

“So you’re in a bit of a no-win situation. You’ve got to be really careful because if that does happen then you are influencing the championship. If we make changes we’ve got to make it early on. You don’t want to be doing anything after eight or nine races because again that’s going to favour probably one or two teams.

“And also bear in mind we were having the same conversations last year and by the end of the year nobody was talking about it. The teams have the best engineers in the world. The drivers are there are at the top for good reason – they’re intelligent people, they work out how to get the best out of the package and you’ll see the same as we go forward.”

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71 comments on Pirelli: Most teams support aggressive tyres

  1. Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 19th April 2013, 10:48

    I think there’s now eight teams that have come to us, written to us, emailled us and said ‘whatever you do, don’t change anything

    We know that Red Bull & Mercedes want the change, i think the remaining team is Torro Rosso

    • SeaHorse (@seahorse) said on 19th April 2013, 11:09

      We know that Red Bull & Mercedes want the change, i think the remaining team is Torro Rosso

      I thought the name Red Bull comprised both RBR & STR

    • HoHum (@hohum) said on 19th April 2013, 14:32

      Well there are 8 teams that have no hope of winning a race driven at 100%.

      • Jejking (@jejking) said on 19th April 2013, 15:56

        As it has always been in F1. There’s your answer. If you want a level playing field, go watch GP2.

      • BasCB (@bascb) said on 19th April 2013, 16:14

        I think actuallly there are 11 teams who have no hope of winning consistently if they really have to go 100% all race @hohum.

        They would be marginal on fuel, have overheating KERS systems, gearboxes and engines running into their red zones and would all be far too afraid of all that to not tell their drivers to just turn down the wick.

        Maybe the biggest change compared to the more distant past is, that at the time it was up to the driver to feel his car, listen to it, and decide what he could pull from it. Now its a whole factory of engineers showing where parameters are going out of optimum range that have the pit wall instruct a driver to driver faster, slower, use more fuel, heat his brakes, cool his brakes, or whatever all coming in the way of the driver skills.

  2. HiPn0tIc (@hipn0tic) said on 19th April 2013, 11:00

    The are many problems with the tyres in my point of view.
    1st – Having a tyre that doesn’t allow the car/driver to race the the faster that he can, i’m sorry but does not go with the spirit of F1. Its absurd that the fastest lap on China is on the second 1.36, and the previous is on the second 1.39.
    2nd – Handling to one manufacture the tyres gives them the power to determinate these kind of decisions, they can decide wathever they feel like, and with that power and the tyres being a big part on racing today they can choose who they want for Wc There’s no ethic in the decision of only having a manufacture.
    3rd – The tyre lobbys, let’s cal them that, it was good that instead of pointing to the air, said wich teams send them emails and stuff like that, because saying there are, we received doesn’t proove anything…

    In resume, i have the opinion that there should be free choice of the set of the tyres, and the manufacture involved, because the teams know what it’s the best for them.

  3. Aditya F. Yahya (@adityafakhri) said on 19th April 2013, 11:04

    I wonder if these Pirelli ever racing in Indianapolis, what chaos that could be…

  4. cg22me (@cg22me) said on 19th April 2013, 11:06

    I think the main reason some teams, at least, don’t want a tyre change is because the season is already in full swing; the fourth race is up this weekend, and so teams will have already invested a lot of this year’s time/effort into trying to understand the tyres.
    If the tyres change, even for the “better”, if such a thing even exists, surely it’ll mean they’ll have to all start from scratch on that front, which may take time/resources away from focusing on next year’s car?

  5. beneboy (@beneboy) said on 19th April 2013, 11:07

    There’s obviously a media-led point of view which comes from the drivers and then behind the scenes we’ve had a lot of lobbying.

    No Paul, there’s a fan-led point of view which comes from people who find the increasingly artificial nature of F1 increasingly boring and lacking in excitement. Useless tires that fall apart after a few laps and DRS being the most obviously artificial aspects of the sport.

    • Nomore (@nomore) said on 19th April 2013, 11:52

      there’s a fan-led point of view

      Excuse me Sir are you a representative of F1 fans point of view ? Have you win an election ?…I mean seriously why people speaks on the name of F1 fans ?….everyone speaks for himself.

      From my point of view as much as tyres are the same for everyone is not a problem aand they are like this since 2007 so for me it’s ok. If they last 10 laps or 40 laps it will not change anything, the fastest car/driver combination will always win.

      And please everyone is free to express his own opinion and i will respect that opinion whatever it is. But stop speaking in F1 fans name, not only because neither of us represent them but also because some f1 fans mybee angry or disappointed to be represented with an opinion that they don’t share.

      • beneboy (@beneboy) said on 19th April 2013, 12:06

        Excuse me Sir are you a representative of F1 fans point of view ? Have you win an election ?…I mean seriously why people speaks on the name of F1 fans ?….everyone speaks for himself.

        Who said I was speaking on behalf of all F1 fans ?
        Take a look at any comments section on an article about the tires and it’s clear to see that the significant number of F1 fans don’t like the current tires.

        My comment was a general observation of the fact that the criticism of the tires isn’t being led by the media, it’s being led by many F1 fans.

        • Nomore (@nomore) said on 19th April 2013, 12:34

          Take a look at any comments section on an article about the tires and it’s clear to see that the significant number of F1 fans don’t like the current tires

          This doesn’t mean that most of F1 fans share those opinions….there could be millions of fans that don’t comply (then why to write a comment about the tyres) and generally if someone likes a race then why to comply…

          The best is that F1 official site makes a poll about tyres.

      • HoHum (@hohum) said on 19th April 2013, 14:36

        @nomore,nomore so than you speak for all fans. I am with @beneboy.

        • Nomore (@nomore) said on 19th April 2013, 15:10

          @hohum

          Where I spoke in the name of all formula 1 fans ?

          • HoHum (@hohum) said on 19th April 2013, 15:17

            @nomore, no that is what you accused Beneboy of when he spoke of “fans”, you then spoke of fans.

          • Nomore (@nomore) said on 19th April 2013, 15:32

            @hohum

            Reread my messages please.
            I didn’t spoke for fans i spoke for myself, i started my sentence with:
            From my point of view
            While @beneboy started his sentence with :
            there’s a fan-led point of view

            I simply point it out that we don’t know what the “fan-led point of view” is…

          • beneboy (@beneboy) said on 19th April 2013, 19:56

            @nomore

            While @beneboy started his sentence with :
            there’s a fan-led point of view…

            And if you read the quote from Paul Hembery you’ll see that I was mocking his claim that criticism of the tires was being led by the media when the reality is that a lot of fans were complaining about the tires long before the media started complaining about them – in some cases as long ago as 2011 when Pirelli first started supplying tires to F1.

    • @ beneboy, I can only agree with @nomore. There are fans that actually like the tyres as they are. We just do not continuously make our voices heard.

      We the fans asked for less durable tyres, we got them, now it is time to appreciate what we asked for.

      I am so sick of hearing about articficial racing this, pot luck races that, gimmick devices are ruining “our” sport.

      Let me tell you right now that preserving tyres and engines and gearboxes and even fuel levels were part of F1 right from the start! Fangio, Moss, Steward, Clark, Villeneuve, Prost, Senna etc. were never able to race absolutely at the limit all the time. They too had to always take care of their tyres/engines/gearboxes to be able to finish a race. It was always like that. If you asked me what almost ruined the sport were the early 2000’s. Go ahead and ask me what happened in those years… I am not able to tell you since I was almost always sleeping…

      F1 is about creating the maximum performance within a set of regulations. The rules are the same for everyone. It is an absolutely level playing field, so it is up the the teams to work with what they have to the best of their abilities. I take it your favourite team isn’t winning at this moment?

      • fangio85 (@fangio85) said on 19th April 2013, 12:49

        ^- this. Thank you @chapor, the only reason you see so many comments complaining about these things is because the people who like the current f1 are content to keep quiet for the most part, and the ones who dont are a small minority who constantly complain. Go back and look at the “significant number of f1 fans”, you referred to, and look again, I think you’ll find its the same small number of people on the comments section of almost any story that complain about these things. And I’ve got a simple solution for those people – don’t watch f1 if its so bad. If it currently sux so much and is all about luck ra ra ra then why follow it? Why even waste your time trawling through forums about it just to complain? Go watch Sprint racing where the races are fast and furious and theres no pit stops or strategy just ‘pure’ racing

        • peter_h said on 19th April 2013, 13:55

          I’d point out that there have been poll’s done on several websites asking about tyres & that in every one of those poll’s the majority voted against them.

          Also if the pirelli critics were the minority when was is tv viewership down even in country’s where f1 has not gone behind a paywall?
          if the majority of fans were happy then surely tv viewership would be up & not decreasing?

          i know a lot of people who no longer watch simply because of these silly tyres. I also know a few people who have vowed to never buy pirelli tyres for there road cars (im one of them, Ended up buying Michelins).

        • HoHum (@hohum) said on 19th April 2013, 14:49

          @fangio85, why should I give up on a sport I have been following for 50 years just because a bunch of “johny come latly’s” with short attention spans need artificial gimmicks to constantly create false moments of excitement.

      • HoHum (@hohum) said on 19th April 2013, 14:42

        @chapor, “the fans asked for less durable tyres” when? which fans? Bernie bleats and the lambs goe “Baaaaa” in unison.

      • Nomore (@nomore) said on 19th April 2013, 15:13

        F1 is about creating the maximum performance within a set of regulations

        Impossible de dire mieux
        +1 well said

        • Nomore (@nomore) said on 19th April 2013, 15:15

          @chapor

          Sorry for

          Impossible de dire mieux

          I meant : Couldn’t say it better…:)… not in french

          • HoHum (@hohum) said on 19th April 2013, 16:59

            The changes that have made the cars virtually identical, the changes that make the cars change tyres during a race, the changes that make the cars drive at 80% of their potential. Those are changes, not what F1 has always been.

          • Nomore (@nomore) said on 19th April 2013, 18:29

            @hohum
            These Changes conditions are since i start watch formula 1, there are moments of the race when a driver push 100% others 95%, 80%, 70 %…and so on…it have to save fuel, engine, brakes, tyres, gearboxes, strategy…etc.

            not what F1 has always been

            100% disagree Formula 1 has always been like this. Formula 1 is a changeable ambient with changeable conditions. If the rules were stable for 30 years it will be boring like helll.

            Sure for my personal pleasure i would have liked it that Formula 1 stays like it was in 2004 with that free technology, so Ferrari could have dominate every year…but as a prospective fan i like changes that can suite or not my favorite team…so i invite YOU to do the same.

        • HoHum (@hohum) said on 19th April 2013, 15:20

          @nomore, it is the CHANGED regulations we are discussing.

      • We the fans asked for less durable tyres

        Exactly when and where did “we the fans” do that? I have no recollection of doing any such thing.

        Let me tell you right now that preserving tyres and engines and gearboxes and even fuel levels were part of F1 right from the start! Fangio, Moss, Steward, Clark, Villeneuve, Prost, Senna etc. were never able to race absolutely at the limit all the time.

        Those were (and still are to some extent) natural limitations The situation with the current tyres is as if we required all the teams to use the engines from a 1972 Ferrari. And then when the rate of engine DNF’ s went way up, we talked about how it is the job of the drivers and the teams to make those engines last!

  6. WilliamB (@william-brierty) said on 19th April 2013, 11:16

    The title of this article is incomplete. Where’s the bit that reads: “…just not Red Bull, who bizarrely thinks that their high downforce wears tyres, even though the rest of the world has known for a while know that having more downforce reduces sliding, and it this sliding, not excessive apex speed that wears tyres”? On reflection, that may have been a tad long, so great editing there, Keith!!!!!

    • Dom (@3dom) said on 19th April 2013, 11:31

      Gary Anderson explained in his recent article why he thinks red bull want a change

      Red Bull seem to have the best understanding of the aerodynamics of their car – and particularly the Coanda system that uses the exhaust gases to enhance rear downforce.

      Red Bull they are having to compromise the pace of their car to work best with the tyres
      Their car has been designed around using the Coanda to the best effect, and Sebastian Vettel has adapted his driving style to go with it.
      The Pirelli tyres do not like to brake and turn at the same time. Vettel comes into the corner on the brakes, which generates understeer on entry because of the tyres. Then he comes off the brakes, which generates a lot of front grip and makes the rear end nervous, and gets back on the throttle, using the downforce from the exhaust gases to keep the rear stable.
      That technique works particularly well on 90-degree corners, such as the ones which abound at this weekend’s race in Bahrain.
      But it works less well in a long corner because there is not the immediate transition from turn-in to exit; there is a delay when the driver is just sitting there as a passenger for a while. So he can’t carry the front downforce that Vettel likes to use on the car because the car is too nervous.

      As he states in another part of the article, they all had chance to try the tyres out at the end of last year, many drivers and teams have had to adapt, so they shouldn’t change just because one driver or team has a design or style that doesn’t suit the tyres.

      The real problem is that the teams have to start the design of the following year’s car in the summer, and only get to sample changes to the tyres quite late on in november. Should they make such significant changes to the tyres year on year?

      • The real problem is that the teams have to start the design of the following year’s car in the summer, and only get to sample changes to the tyres quite late on in november. Should they make such significant changes to the tyres year on year?

        I suspect that from the point of view of the FIA, that is a feature and not a bug. After all, the only reason to change tyres year on year in the first place is to try to scramble the finishing order from the previous season.

  7. Dom (@3dom) said on 19th April 2013, 11:16

    It would always be too late to change the tyres. As soon as teams have done a reasonable amount of testing, and as a result developed their car to try suit the tyres, then it’s too late. Any changes have to be made for next season. It’s a difficult position really. Without refuelling, the tyres are the main determinant of strategy. We want drivers to be able to push, we want drivers and engineers to be able to influence how the tyres last, we want several pit stop strategy options to be available. It’s always gonna be difficult to get all those factors to work together. Is it possible?

    • HoHum (@hohum) said on 19th April 2013, 14:54

      Why do people want pit-stops ? I’ve always disliked them, like the safety car they disrupt the flow of the race and add factors totally outside the drivers control.

  8. electrolite (@electrolite) said on 19th April 2013, 11:20

    You’re always going to hear more about the people complaining about them than the people that are happy about them, after all…

    • M Dickens (@sgt-pepper) said on 20th April 2013, 12:03

      (@electrolite)

      You’re always going to hear more about the people complaining about them than the people that are happy about them, after all…

      Completely agree with this. As much as I think the tyres have been utterly ridiculous for the last few races, particularly the options, I think people are forgetting just how silly some of the rules used to be in the past. Now we have;

      – slick tyres, and although admittedly they melt after a few laps, people seem to have completely forgotten how dire the grooved ones were.
      – No refueling. Kieth did a great article on this explaining why it’s so much better
      -No split qualifying, and qualify on empty tanks so it’s a true test of raw speed (although clearly the tyres have compromised this slightly)
      – Much tighter grid. Again, although it’s sadly been Newey/finger dominated the last few years, I think people forget how much more spread the pack was, simply by virtue of the strength of their car. There’s still a pecking order obviously, but it’s not as pronounced. Even if you count 2011, or whenever RB bring new updates, it’s nothing compared to when Ferrari effectively lapped the entire field in 2004, and not even going flat out.

      Plus, if you look at past race points systems, didn’t Prost lose the ’88 championship (IIRC), despite having more points, because they discounted some of the wins? The ‘best x amount of races’ counted towards your final championship position – imagine that today! Or how they split the championship into turbo/non-turbo points systems, which also seems utterly ludicrous nowadays.

      Although I still feel this current formula needs a little tweaking – No DRS, too many wide/bland Tilke dromes, and the 2013 tyres have gotten quite silly, in general the rules have improved hugely.

      Except for DRS, which I think all the F1 forums need to start some sort of petition and co-ordinate against, the current rules are so much better than they were.

  9. andae23 (@andae23) said on 19th April 2013, 11:21

    I think the amount of critisism on Pirelli is getting ridiculous. I’m not a fan of the degradation pattern of these tyres, but changing the tyres mid-season is unrealistic to say the least. Sky has been asking literally every driver, every team principal and every technical director what their opinion is on the tyres, and then they claim the tyres are the ‘hot topic’ – sigh.

    I think the F1 media should stop this Pirelli witch-hunt, because it’s utterly pointless. The FIA has used fan-input on setting out Pirelli’s goals for 2013, which is a good thing. But the decisions Pirelli makes on the tyres is more of an internal thing, not something that should be covered by the media in my opinion. What should be the talking point is teams trying to influence Pirelli’s decisions. Pirelli is an independent party, so why are teams lobbying?

    • Ivan B (@njoydesign) said on 19th April 2013, 11:45

      couldn’t agree more

    • beneboy (@beneboy) said on 19th April 2013, 12:00

      I think the F1 media should stop this Pirelli witch-hunt, because it’s utterly pointless.

      What Pirelli witch hunt ?
      Every article I’ve read and interview I’ve watched about the tires made the point that Pirelli are only doing what the FIA asked them to do, no-one is criticising Pirelli and there is certainly no witch hunt going on.

      Criticising the tires doesn’t mean you’re criticising the company that makes them, I’m no fan of Pirelli but even I don’t hold them responsible for the tire situation in F1.

    • HoHum (@hohum) said on 19th April 2013, 14:59

      “the FIA has used fan input” which fans ? when? No-one asked me, maybe JT asked his grandchildren or more likely Bernie.

      • andae23 (@andae23) said on 19th April 2013, 17:13

        The FIA’s aim is to make the sport more ‘exciting’. Now, the definition of that simply cannot be defined by some guys behind desks. So my conclusion is that they must use fan input, simple as that.

  10. GT_Racer said on 19th April 2013, 11:54

    Paul Hembrey talks about it been a media driven thing with only 3 teams complaining, Thats 100% **.

    A lot of the fans have been critical of the tyres, You only have to read here & on other fan websites to see that the majority of the comments are very negative on the current tyres, Thats not driven by the media or the teams, Its peoples opinion.

    I’ve been critical of the tyres, Not because I saw a team complain or saw a media report, I’ve been critical purely because I hate the way the tyres are affecting the racing & regardless of what Pirelli say or what the media or a team/driver says, My opinion on that will never change.

    I spent 10 years in F1 from 97-07 with FOM, All this talk from people like Gary Anderson saying that things are the same as always is pure spin. There has never been any period in F1 where we have seen tyres this sensitive & which require drivers to ‘nurse’ them as much as they are. Yes there were times when drivers had to manage tyres, But it was never anywhere close to been as bad as it is now.

    I spent races monitoring team radio comm’s & never ever heard drivers been told not to bother racing cars around them because tyre saving was more important & I never heard drivers been told to look after tyres as much as they are today.

    Paul Hembrey’s comments are nothing but spin, The same as when he’s said in the past that F1 was in decline before 2011 & that ‘nobody was watching’ before Pirelli came in.

  11. I am sick of Pirelli criticism. The races are more fun and tense then ever before. More people have tuned in. In fact in countries where pay TV model has been applied, there is a decline in viewership. In UK alone there was steep decline in 2012 due to pay TV & not because of Pirelli tires. I have been watching F1 since 1991 and I can safely say that I am enjoying every bit of it.

    • GT_Racer said on 19th April 2013, 13:49

      More people have tuned in.

      Wrong, TV Viewership is down even in country’s where the TV situation hasn’t changed for several years.

  12. Timothy Katz (@timothykatz) said on 19th April 2013, 12:00

    I’m confused. If most of the teams and drivers like the tyres, then who was it complaining that they were only driving at “80%” bacause of the tyres. Not a top F1 driver then.
    In this article- http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/04/12/hamilton-soft-tyre-circuit/
    – Hamilton says after P2 “The soft is hardcore. I don’t know why, it doesn’t feel like the right tyre for this circuit. I mean I did a couple of laps and the tyres just disintegrated. It was quite unusual.” The article also says ‘The Mercedes driver was among those to complain about the compound during the high-fuel runs in the second practice session.’
    This confuses me too; Hembury just before the Chinese GP “In total, we’d expect the soft tyre to last between 11 to 12 laps in the race.” Hmmm, 7 laps is a long way from 11 or 12.
    Is it too difficult to say “we messed up in China”?

  13. Aussie Rod (@aussierod) said on 19th April 2013, 12:27

    Well, it’s Groundhog Day… again… and that must mean that we’re up here at Gobbler’s Knob waiting for the forecast from the world’s most famous groundhog weatherman, Punxsutawney Phil, who’s just about to tell us how much more winter we can expect…

    …only it’s not groundhog day, it’s another year of F1 with the same Pirelli criticism we got for the past two years.

    Well here’s a prediction from Punxsutawney Phil for ya folks: By mid-season no one will be talking about tires anymore and by the end of the year everyone will be moaning about 1 stop races and tires that are too durable and conservative. You didn’t see it here first folks, you saw it last year. And the year before.

  14. Red Andy (@red-andy) said on 19th April 2013, 13:26

    Hembery’s comments don’t square with the fact that they’ve changed the tyre allocation for Bahrain at the eleventh hour.

    We know who that benefits. Blue car, big angry cow on the side.

    I tend to agree that the teams should put up and shut up. But Pirelli need to stick to their guns and not be politically influenced by certain teams who want the tyres changed.

    • HoHum (@hohum) said on 19th April 2013, 15:11

      Actually you are quite right, if we actually saw cars unable to finish because they ran out of tyres we might get a real change.

      • Jejking (@jejking) said on 19th April 2013, 15:55

        We won’t. F1 tyres will last ‘infinitely’ but you’ll end up going so slow that you’re falling down the order like a stone. Which is pretty much what we see happening now a days.

        • BasCB (@bascb) said on 19th April 2013, 16:20

          The thing is, thats not even true. Driving slower is not a solution perse, as Button showed when he went faster and the tyres held up. Its more a specific way to use them in the first laps and then over their lifetime. But they still degrade really fast even then.

          As mentioned above (and even by Hembery), the softs were really qualifying tyres. Webber did the right thing to lose them after lap. We saw Vettel use themn for 2 really fast laps, then they started to lose quickly, and by lap 4 they were about the same speed as Hamilton’s old hard tyres were.

  15. TMF (@tmf42) said on 19th April 2013, 16:09

    The least Pirelli can do is look at the data and see if they’ve actually made a mistake resp. why the tires fall off the cliff after 1-2 laps and don’t recover. We would have seen at least 1 team dominating a qualifying/race by getting lucky with their setup (like it was in 2012), if the tires would be actually able to handle a flat degradation curve over a few laps before falling off (as they promised).

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