Massa and Gutierrez given penalties for blocking

2013 Spanish Grand Prix

Felipe Massa, Ferrari, Circuit de Cataunya, Barcelona, 2013Felipe Massa and Esteban Gutierrez have been moved back three places on the grid for the Spanish Grand Prix for holding up other drivers during qualifying.

Massa was found to have held Mark Webber up while Gutierrez was punished for getting in Kimi Raikkonen’s way during Q1.

Massa falls back from sixth to ninth while Gutierrez is moved back to 19th on the grid.

The Ferrari driver was unhappy with his penalty: “It was not my intention to get in his way and in all honesty, I can?t recall having affected his qualifying,” he said.

“When I saw him in the mirrors, I thought I?d get through the corner before letting him by, which was the only course of action at such a narrow point. On top of that, he was on worn tyres at the time and I don?t think he was doing a quick lap.”

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50 comments on Massa and Gutierrez given penalties for blocking

  1. Chris (@tophercheese21) said on 11th May 2013, 16:02

    “Good!” – Grumpy Cat

  2. OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 11th May 2013, 16:02

    Wasn’t Gutierrez saying he is ready to be more competitive, just on the yesterday’s round-up?
    So shameful he is at Sauber. Probably Kovalainen is still available so Monisha, please, follow my advice. Summer break is a good time to clean the house and buy new stuff

    • Sebas (@seabass) said on 11th May 2013, 16:11

      Well they already got a great replacement for the Mexican. They need to look no further than their reserve driver, Frijns. Who won the GP2 race from 8th just now.

    • Yoshitsune (@yobo01) said on 11th May 2013, 16:14

      I don’t know, Monisha has just seen Frijns winning the feature race in GP2, and it was only his third weekend in this series.

      By the way, I’m massively disappointed by Gutierrez. I didn’t expect him to be faster than Hulkenberg, but he showed flashes of good pace in his GP2 carreer. And not only he is quite far from Hulkenberg, but he is making some silly mistakes (which I expected from him, to be honest).

    • Manished said on 11th May 2013, 16:27

      Gut impeded Kimi’s sensational lap on hard compound…….. would be interesting to see how Kimi could end up without being impeded.

    • I think Gutierrez is safe with all the Telcel/Telmex cash he’s bringing to the team.

      • Gary Numan said on 12th May 2013, 12:21

        Gutierrez isn’t bringing any Telmex cash to the team. There is no link apart from nationality.

    • Todfod (@todfod) said on 12th May 2013, 7:27

      @omarr-pepper
      I dont get why people are recommending Kovalainen, The guy had his time in f1 and really didn’t make much of an impression. Instead, you would rather replace a rookie driver who is just 5 races into the season and is yet to show what he is made of.

      I just dont get it

  3. DaveF1 (@davef1) said on 11th May 2013, 16:06

    I know it sounds silly but surely a reprimand would be more appropriate for both of them seeing as neither Raikkonen and Webber were actually affected in the long run.

    • KaIIe (@kaiie) said on 11th May 2013, 17:11

      Indeed. Then again, if you punish them now, they’re less likely to block someone in the future.

      • Nomore (@nomore) said on 11th May 2013, 17:28

        @kaiie OK but…

        Why Vettel in quali Japan 2012 didn’t get a penalty

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 11th May 2013, 17:31

          That was because he didn’t block anyone.

          • Nomore (@nomore) said on 11th May 2013, 18:09

            Yes he blocked Fernando Alonso

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 12th May 2013, 3:07

            @nomore Again, Vettel didn’t block, he just moved out of the way (off the track, in fact) as Alonso came.

          • Nomore (@nomore) said on 12th May 2013, 11:40

            @david-a

            It was too late and damage was made, the lap of Alonso was influenced, so he blosck him…intentionally or not, is another question

            But as usually, anyone see what he wants to see.
            This is a double standard.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 12th May 2013, 13:31

            @nomore – Well, you could argue he moved out of the way a bit late, but it wasn’t worth anything more than a reprimand, given that he moved out of the way as Alonso came.

        • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 11th May 2013, 17:38

          @nomore he was at the far right of the track and not exactly on the racing line. Hence no penalty, because Alonso wasn’t held up unduly so by it (the definition of blocking).

          • John H (@john-h) said on 11th May 2013, 17:48

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNIYU7TqtuA

            Vettel was travelling so slowly, he really should have been off the racing line IMHO, but anyway, that was 2012. It certainly wasn’t Monza 2006.

            However, If he’s reprimanded then he was found to be hindering Alonso in the eyes of the stewards… so shouldn’t the penalty should be consistent?

          • Nomore (@nomore) said on 11th May 2013, 18:20

            @vettel1

            No he was in the racing line, and this is also Fernando Alonso ( watch the declaration of F.A post brasil 2012) opinion.

            @john-h

            Yes the stewards aren’t consistent.

          • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 11th May 2013, 19:54

            @john-h what I see there is a Vettel going well beyond the usual turn-in point to get out of Alonso’s way. I think the reprimand was only really because he probably could’ve committed himself to doing that earlier, instead of languishing in the middle of the track until Alonso was fast approaching.

    • Traverse (@) said on 11th May 2013, 17:15

      @davef1
      You seem to be forgetting that common sense isn’t applied when making such decisions in F1.

    • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 11th May 2013, 17:17

      @davef1 that’s not the point. They should’ve moved out of the way and didn’t, so the penalties were justified. Webber showed how it was supposed to be done when he let Massa (ironically) by into turn 3: get off the racing line and don’t deviate.

      • DaveF1 (@davef1) said on 11th May 2013, 21:50

        @vettel1 It’s entirely the point. Penalties should be applied when it has a direct affect on the results. Of course Gutierrez and Massa were in the wrong and it does act as a deterrent for other drivers but its not liked their actions had any affect on the results. What’s even funnier is that Maldonado was told to get out of the way by his team and failed to do so yet he somehow got away with it. What’s the difference between Maldonado blocking Button and the Gutierrez/Massa incidents.

        Also what’s the point of reprimands then. I always thought that they are applied when its the drivers first few minor mistakes of the season. Sure there’s a case with Gutierrez as he’s being quiet reckless so far but there’s no real justifiable reason for Massa. That was his first error all season and it now could potentially cost him a good points haul.

        • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 11th May 2013, 22:15

          @davef1 not it isn’t: the point is slower drivers (on out/in laps) are supposed to get out of the way of drivers on flying laps. It doesn’t matter if it was their fastest effort or if they were doing it on used tyres, you are just supposed to get out of the way regardless. I shall stress further, whether it makes a difference to the results is not the consideration, it’s whether they impeded a driver on their lap (which Gutierrez and Massa did).

          What’s even funnier is that Maldonado was told to get out of the way by his team and failed to do so yet he somehow got away with it.

          Maldonado didn’t really have much place else to go: he was in the middle f the chicane already I believe about to start a lap, so that didn’t justify a penalty in my eyes or in the stewards. As for reprimands, perhaps I agree they would’ve been more appropriately used in Massa’s case at least but Gutierrez definitely deserved a grid penalty for that effort. Massa still definitely merited a telling off of sorts though as he quite significantly obstructed Webber.

          • HoHum (@hohum) said on 11th May 2013, 23:26

            @vettel1, @all, the fact that we saw 3 incidence of this nature shows that reprimands have had no effect, therefore penalties are required. I think it is highly unlikely we will see any similar incidents anytime soon now that grid place penalties have been applied.

          • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 11th May 2013, 23:29

            @hohum very good point and very concise!

            Oh, and I like how I get an honorary mention to myself – it makes me feel somewhat satisfied :D

  4. Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 11th May 2013, 16:07

    Gutierrez’s penalty is rightfully so as he blatantly blocked Raikkonen who was on a bloody fast lap. I didn’t see Massa holding up Webber, so I can’t comment on that accident.

  5. Nick.UK (@) said on 11th May 2013, 16:15

    I was thinking with the Massa situation it may have been smart (though very risky and difficult) for the team to try and orchestrate Massa qualifying ahead of Alonso by one place, that way when he is bumped down he puts Alonso back up and he only looses 2 places technically. He was so close to actually getting ahead, it’s a shame.

  6. William (@william) said on 11th May 2013, 16:18

    So overall good judgement call by Channel 10s Alan Jones

  7. Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 11th May 2013, 16:40

    Exactly as I thought – correct decision from the stewards here.

  8. OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 11th May 2013, 16:46

    will they use the “penalty points” from this race, or it’s just a proposal for next year?

  9. James_mc (@james_mc) said on 11th May 2013, 17:38

    I thought it was a bit unfair on Massa. He was half-way through a long corner which would be quite difficult to come to the outside after being on the inside without risking going off. Although it could be argued his team should have been on top of it.

    • HoHum (@hohum) said on 11th May 2013, 23:34

      @james_mc, by his own admission Massa was totally aware of Webber being on a run and he not only knew what tyre Webber was using he knew that they were used not new, as for the difficulty of getting out of the way, he should have been on the outside even before Webber appeared in his mirrors, it’s not like he is new to F1.

  10. John H (@john-h) said on 11th May 2013, 17:38

    This is disappointing. We’ve seen before drivers not getting penalised because the affected still got through to the next stage of qualifying.

    I can see the argument that Massa should still be punished, but, can there at least be consistency if they are going to go down that route? Just write it out in black and white in the sporting regulations. Anyone caught blocking gets a 3 place penalty or whatever regardless of if the driver got through Q(1,2,3).

    As for Massa not realising what he’s doing, well that’s for another discussion. Comments like this:

    On top of that, he was on worn tyres at the time and I don’t think he was doing a quick lap

    just sound stupid. Did he observe the quality of the tyre in his mirror as well?… come on, pay attention to those around you when you’re not on a flying lap, simple as that.

    • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 11th May 2013, 17:58

      @john-h it’s too ambiguous to have just a simple black-and-white regulation, that’s why we need so many stewards to discuss whether or not a penalty is necessary!

      • John H (@john-h) said on 11th May 2013, 19:06

        @vettel1

        Of course the stewards need to discuss whether or not a penalty is required. That’s not my point. I’m saying that once they have done so and (potentially) agreed that the person on the flying lap lost time because of the other driver’s actions, there should be a consistent penalty applied.

        It’s actually one of the rare things in F1 where we can have some objectivity in the regulations.

  11. Alex Brown (@splittimes) said on 11th May 2013, 20:15

    I don’t like the quali result (or race results, for that matter) being affected after the event is over. And I think people are getting a bit prissy about this whole thing. It was never a problem when we had a 60 minute open pitlane qualifying format, but people now [cliche alert] want to save tyres by doing only one flying lap, and leave it as late as possible to get the track at its best. Its really sad to hear drivers insisting on penalties for each other down the radio. If you don’t want to get caught out, it should be your responsibility to do your best to avoid the situation. If someone is particularly dopey, give them a telling off, but keep it behind closed doors. It does the sport a disservice to but these behaviors in the public eye.

    • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 11th May 2013, 22:51

      @splittimes there is nothing I can disgaree with in that comment: well put sir!

      The only real thing I think is worth mentioning is that I don’t think it’s at all the fault of the qualifying format (in fact, I think that generally improves the traffic situation) it is just as you’ve said: the tyres. Everyone wants to do their lap at the same time, which inevitably leads to these problems.

      • HoHum (@hohum) said on 11th May 2013, 23:47

        @vettel1, Max such gentlemanly (and ladylike for @celeste) toothless regulation is what lead to a red car “accidentally” hitting the wall at Rascasse in Monte Carlo on the last lap of qualifying, a regulation without a proper penalty just leads to abuse, the Stewards made the right call.

        • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 11th May 2013, 23:59

          @hohum I do agree that drivers need to be punished actually otherwise the rule will just be abused so yes I concur with you also in that the stewards did indeed make the right call.

          However, I do feel the problem is being exasperated by all the running coming close to the end of the session, so perhaps that is one of the major problems here which could do with resolving. Quite how I don’t know but maybe there is a fix for Q1 at least (Q2/3 tend not to be too bad for traffic with the decreased number of cars on track).

          • HoHum (@hohum) said on 12th May 2013, 0:52

            @vettel1, yes the tyre/track situation does make qualifying difficult which is, I believe, why it was important for Webber to put in a good “banker” on what should have been a clear track, in case, as happened, traffic prevented a good last minute lap.

        • celeste (@celeste) said on 12th May 2013, 0:06

          You call me a lady, I like you @hohum ;)

          I understand both points. Reulations needs a punisment, but If I remember the rule about impeding is old, so is not something that has to be with the actual format of qualifying. The fact that now we have a limit of time mades qualy excited.

          I agree with Max, the situation with tyres has complicated the problem with traffic. Since everybody wants to be the last one late in the session to take chequered flag. But is not necessary Pirelli´s fault. Since last year they offered to introduce qualy only tyres, but it was a mussure that it was rejected.

          • HoHum (@hohum) said on 12th May 2013, 0:56

            @celeste, I agree that Q is exciting and for me it is the only thing Bernie has got right since he started fiddling with the rules to “improve the show”.

    • Tomsk (@tomsk) said on 11th May 2013, 23:57

      Yes, it’s like footballers waving imaginary yellow cards at the ref, trying to get him to caution another player. I’m sure Alan Jones isn’t having any of that, judging by what I’ve read about his reputation. And some of these incidents were early in qualifying where the guy easily made it through to the next part.

      I’d give all the whinging drivers penalties too, goodness knows what they’ll be like at Monaco.

  12. rubin (@almanac) said on 12th May 2013, 2:06

    typical red bull if they cant don it on the track ? lets get someone a penalty, were was he supose to to go mid corner ?
    Posted: 11/05/13 4:28pm

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