It’s time Vettel had some bad luck, says Alonso

2013 Canadian Grand Prix

Sebastian Vettel, Fernando Alonso, Circuit de Catalunya, Barcelona, 2013Fernando Alonso says the amount of points Sebastian Vettel has scored so far this year is “not normal” and his luck will change eventually.

“We have had some unlucky situations this year, like when I had a slight touch in Malaysia which put me out of the race,” said Alonso, “while we have seen for example Hamilton and Vettel touching in Barcelona and they were both able to continue.”

“However, in Monaco it was simply a case of not having the pace. At this stage of the season, we have two more points than last year when we were leading the championship, so in a way we are doing a little bit better than last year.

“What is not so normal is the amount of points Sebastian has scored in the last six races ?ǣ a lot. We need to try and finish in front of him, because everyone has bad luck at some point and it will come to him as well.

Kimi [Raikkonen] had his bad luck in Monaco with the accident, so that we are now only five points behind him.”

Alonso said he’s expecting a “tricky” weekend due to the forecast of rain.

“Anything can happen especially in the wet and we saw in qualifying in Monaco, that when the rain came it was chaotic: it means that if you are not on track at the end if the track is drying, or if you have a problem with a yellow flag or you make a small mistake, then you are out.

“So it will be a case of maximum concentration to do well here and also in the coming races, at Silverstone, Germany and Hungary. So every Thursday it will be a case of saying the same thing, ‘we must score good points.'”

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86 comments on It’s time Vettel had some bad luck, says Alonso

  1. Feuerdrache (@xenomorph91) said on 6th June 2013, 19:15

    Instead of relying on other driver’s bad luck, he would be better off trying to be perfect on his own – like Vettel did so far – with a car that is better than the RedBull in terms of race pace during the first six roundsa

    The running into Vettel at the start in Malaysia was purely his fault, followed by the careless decision not to pit after lap 1. Those weren’t “unlucky” situations at all.

    • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 6th June 2013, 22:17

      I think that’s a pretty hypocritical comment from Mr 40 points ahead in the F2012 Alonso. Vettel has by no means had good luck though, he’s just taken his chances and his team haven’t made any silly operational errors like Ferrari have twice already to a great cost.

      • Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 6th June 2013, 23:49

        his team haven’t made any silly operational errors like Ferrari have twice already to a great cost.

        Short or selective memory ????
        Vettel himself criticized his team when they compromised his race in the Spain GP when they committed too much on 3 stop strategy and then changing it in the middle of the race
        What do you call Mark Webber tyre fixing issue in China a smart operational error

        • BasCB (@bascb) said on 7th June 2013, 7:17

          Yes, you are right about that mistake on Webbers car, but for their iron in the fire of the championship (Vettel), Red Bull has done a good job without making crucial errors, like Ferrari believing the dream of the invincible Alonso and NOT having him stop when everyone looking at the TV images could see it would end in tears @tifoso1989.

          Likewise Kimi’s accident was not about bad luck either. It was about him deciding that enough was enough and Perez was not coming through. That was not smart for his own results in Monaco.
          Had Alonso decided to do the same earlier that race, it could well have ended the same for Alonso (one of the things that make Alonso so good at consistently scoring and being in the WDC running).

          The point being, neither of those were bad luc.

        • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 7th June 2013, 8:04

          @tifoso1989 we aren’t talking about Webber here, so that’s pretty much irrelevant.

          As for the Spanish incident, it hardly cost him drastically: Massa was just faster in the end. Even if he did gain that place, that’s only 3 more points compared to what I’m talking about with the Ferrari operational errors; that’s probably in the region of 25 points!

    • clmdwn222 said on 8th June 2013, 6:32

      @xenomorph91 +1000

  2. JUGNU (@jugnu) said on 6th June 2013, 19:31

    Wishing or hoping bad luck for others is not a good thing. Never heard Hamilton or Vettel saying these kind of things. Also in Monaco Vettel was far better than Alonso. Came within a tenth or two of Mercedes in Qualifying and finished 2nd. He was not overtaken by any slower car instead when opportunity came he passed one of the Mercedes and then bravely set the fastest lap of the race.
    IMO Alonso was the best and most consistent driver last year but so far in the 6 races he was below par in 3 of them. And Vettel has been the best driver so far and deserves his points gap.

    • SeaHorse (@seahorse) said on 6th June 2013, 21:32

      Wishing or hoping bad luck for others is not a good thing.

      @jugnu He is not wishing for bad luck to befall Vettel. There is something called as law of averages. Vettel can’t and wont be on this high always.

      Also in Monaco Vettel was far better than Alonso. Came within a tenth or two of Mercedes in Qualifying and finished 2nd. He was not overtaken by any slower car instead when opportunity came he passed one of the Mercedes and then bravely set the fastest lap of the race.

      It doesn’t mean or prove that Vettel was far better than Alonso. It is well known that RB and Merc are the teams to beat in one lap pace this season. Having qualified behind both the Mercs he can’t be acclaimed as better than Alonso as Ferrari has consistently been found lacking on one lap pace. And he dint pass one of those Mercs in the race like Sutil or Perez did on others, it was because of the safety car and the strategic lapse of Hamilton’s side of Merc. And I wish to give credit where it is due. I mean hats off to Vettel for bravely setting the fastest lap of the century.

      • Mike Dee (@mike-dee) said on 6th June 2013, 21:52

        There is something called as law of averages.

        There is, but it does not apply to the past. So it does not mean if you threw a coin 10 times, and 8 times a head was shown, that for the next 10 throws, a head will be less likely than tails.

        So I am afraid that Alonso’s statistical knowledge is not up to scratch, and bad luck will be no more likely to Vettel than to him in the future.

        • SeaHorse (@seahorse) said on 6th June 2013, 21:59

          There is, but it does not apply to the past. So it does not mean if you threw a coin 10 times, and 8 times a head was shown, that for the next 10 throws, a head will be less likely than tails.

          It isn’t simple in F1. If it were we would see each driver/team winning in one race and getting DNF in the other. There should be nothing in between. He is only comparing the last season standings as a reference and is not saying if ‘I had scored as many points as last season I’d still end up on 2nd’.

          So I am afraid that Alonso’s statistical knowledge is not up to scratch, and bad luck will be no more likely to Vettel than to him in the future.

          Some sort of insight into bad luck and stastical knowledge. Great!

        • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 7th June 2013, 8:36

          @mike-dee

          There is, but it does not apply to the past. So it does not mean if you threw a coin 10 times, and 8 times a head was shown, that for the next 10 throws, a head will be less likely than tails.

          So I am afraid that Alonso’s statistical knowledge is not up to scratch, and bad luck will be no more likely to Vettel than to him in the future.

          Exactly.

          • Palle (@palle) said on 7th June 2013, 18:44

            Technically You are absolutely right. Crush the numbers and it is so, but I think Alonso is trying to make his wish come true. He is trying a psychological trick – convince Your opponent(s) that the reason why they are in front is because they have been lucky (or not unlucky yet) and by convincing them of the non-theoretician “common knowledge” which everyone presumably “knows”: that sooner or later they will run into bad luck or run sour in perfecting their preparations and their game, then You can persuade them into a psychological accept of failure. I hope RBR and Vettel don’t buy it.

    • DaveD (@daved) said on 6th June 2013, 21:34

      I’m not so sure Horner was pleased with him “bravely setting the fastest lap of the race” LOL

    • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 6th June 2013, 22:39

      Luck simply doesn’t exist: the law of averages is a myth, simply the chances of a retirement are completely reset each weekend – it’s equally as likely Vettel will have 5 first-lap incidents due to unfortunate circumstances in 10 races as he is one in 20!

      “Luck” is really how well a team operates, how well a driver drives, the circumstances that unfold in a race (which I suppose you could call “luck” as there is no certainty involved), the reliability of the car and where you qualify (that’s a major one as it can determine the likelihood of a first-lap incident).

      One can be unfortunate absolutely but I think the idea that there is some form of luck points and good has to be balanced with bad is a flawed concept and makes little sense.

      • Cristian (@cristian) said on 7th June 2013, 6:54

        Totally agree

      • BasCB (@bascb) said on 7th June 2013, 7:24

        In general what you mention about statistics is true. But only for statistics @vettel1. For Humans, it might well be that a string of luck can either make them fear it will end, or it can make them feel invincible (both can lead to accidents then).

        Actually, I think that in a way that was the reason why Alonso stayed out (or the team kept him out, whatever) in Malaysia. Because they had started to believe a bit in Alonso’s luck and skill of somehow getting it to work. Similarly Perez might not have even tried at Kimi, if he hadn’t succeeded with Button and Alonso before.
        I think we see the opposite with Grosjean. Everyone now starts out thinking that he will crash, and it seems he still has trouble not letting that get to himself too.

        But its not about luck at all, because Malaysia was a mistake by Ferrari/Alonso and Kimi tangling with Perez was the result of Kimi deciding that enough was enough and he would not let Perez pass while driving “for the championship”.

      • q85 said on 7th June 2013, 7:25

        despite what you say being true. He also said his luck would run out last year….And it did.

        So he isnt saying anything he didnt say about himself.

  3. Girts (@girts) said on 6th June 2013, 19:37

    I think it’s fair to say that Vettel has simply been better than Alonso so far this season. The German has outqualified his team mate in every race by a considerable average margin, while Alonso lost to Massa twice. Vettel has simply used every opportunity to score as many points as possible, just like Alonso did last year. Yes, Alonso has lost points because of Ferrari’s mishaps but hitting Vettel from behind at Sepang was his own mistake and Monaco didn’t seem to rank among his best performances either. I don’t think it’s really fair to talk about ‘bad luck’, the current drivers’ championship standings are rather a logical consequence of the combined performances of the teams and their leading drivers.

    • Younger Hamii (@younger-hamii) said on 6th June 2013, 21:36

      @Girts

      I strongly agree, Vettel has got the most out of the Red Bull package this season more notably than last season: bringing home decent points in races like China and Spain where the car was arguably nowhere on pace on race. Alonso and Ferrari , with the better package so far, have made a few mistakes this season, the mistakes have frankly been amateurish to say the least of a team and driver of Ferrari and Fernando respectively, we needn’t discuss Malaysia and Bahrain in detail and the uncharacteristic last race from him.

      “What is not so normal is the amount of points Sebastian has scored in the last six races – a lot.

      Someone’s forgotten about 2011, Vettel scored 143 points after the first six races of 2011, of course the RB7 was clearly the best package but it’s has to be more than ‘not so normal’ when the title had a hand of Vettel’s firmly after just six races. Statistically-speaking this year, he’s just a race win, 5th and 10th place finishes behind that total.

      With the RB9 not being a stand-out package this year, much likened to the previous, the stats show how well Vettel has driven so far basically to be less than two race wins behind that the 2011 total.

  4. TMF (@tmf42) said on 6th June 2013, 19:44

    It’s funny that he mentions this – last year Alonso had luck and consistency on his side. In a car that wasn’t competitive. This year Vettel drives pretty consistent and scored the maximum where the car/tyre/track allowed it and had good finishes where his car wasn’t competitive.

    So what’s the difference?

  5. hzh (@hzh00) said on 6th June 2013, 19:45

    Caption competition:
    Soon….

  6. US_Peter (@us_peter) said on 6th June 2013, 19:53

    So when Alonso has some consistent results like the beginning of last season it’s because he’s some kind of magical samurai god, but if another great driver shows his consistency like Vettel and Raikkonen have both been doing this season, it’s somehow just down to luck. You keep telling yourself whatever you need to Alonso. You’re the only one buying what you’re selling.

  7. Diego (@ironcito) said on 6th June 2013, 20:21

    The only cases which could be argued to have been bad luck for Alonso were the front wing collapse in Malaysia and the DRS failure in Bahrain. Obviously, there is some luck involved, but in both cases the team made mistakes. As others have said, hitting Vettel in Malaysia was Alonso’s fault, and they were careless not to pit immediately. They gambled and lost. In Bahrain, it was obvious that they shouldn’t have tried to continue using DRS after the first failure, as if nothing had happened. They should’ve tested it just before pitting again, or something along those lines. Again, they gambled and lost. Vettel, on the other hand, didn’t have any particularly good luck that I can recall. No rain or satefy car at the exact moment to give him a gain, or anything like that. He just hasn’t had bad luck either.

  8. ThrillerWA09 (@thrillerwa09) said on 6th June 2013, 20:29

    *Cue Romain Grosjean

    Maybe Fernando will slip him a few bucks to rub his front wing against Vettel’s rear tyre :)

  9. Sheila (@st91) said on 6th June 2013, 20:32

    I wonder why Alonso always justifies his bad races or the other ones’ good races with “luck”…

    • Kimi4WDC said on 6th June 2013, 23:39

      It might be down to simple language thing, he does speak many and it is possible that in Spanish you build your sentences in certain way. Like you can see people are German if you just read their English transcript without need to hear them.

      Or it is a life mentality, essentially we have to take a choice no matter what, due to skill or not, right or wrong.

      Or he can be big on Quantum Mechanics :D

  10. Jon Sandor (@jonsan) said on 6th June 2013, 20:40

    Where to start …

    Last year Vettel had far more bad luck than Alonso. In some respects it was a repeat of the 2010 season. SV could have wrapped up the title with a GP or two in hand if he’d had as little bad luck as FA did. But sure, it’s time Vettel had some bad luck!

    And of course Alonso has not really had that much bad luck this season. He’s driven poorly in some races, which is a rather different thing. One thing I’ve never heard from Alonso is “I messed up, and I’ll do better in the future”.

    • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 6th June 2013, 20:43

      @jonsan

      Last year Vettel had far more bad luck than Alonso. In some respects it was a repeat of the 2010 season. SV could have wrapped up the title with a GP or two in hand if he’d had as little bad luck as FA did. But sure, it’s time Vettel had some bad luck!

      It all depends on what you define luck. Red Bull was the best car in both 2010 and 2012, is that not lucky? Whatever points Alonso gained in those years were cancelled out by having to drive a slower car throughout the majority of the races.

      • Jon Sandor (@jonsan) said on 6th June 2013, 21:14

        It all depends on what you define luck.

        I’d define an engine failure as bad luck. I’d define having to start from the back because your team did not put enough fuel in the car as bad luck. How would you define it?

        Red Bull was the best car in both 2010 and 2012, is that not lucky?

        No, since what made the Red Bull ‘the best car” was the performances of the drivers in it. People use this phrase ‘best car” as if it’s as hard and concrete as “longest river”
        or “highest mountain”. Or even “fastest car”. And it’s not, really. If Massa had not taken the first half of the 2012 season off, Ferrari would have taken the WDC. Check his points per race before and after Silverstone. What price the “best car” then?

        There are cases where a genuinely “best car” exists. The FW14B in 1992 was clearly the best car. But usually it it much more difficult or even impossible to separate out the car from the driver.

        Whatever points Alonso gained in those years were cancelled out by having to drive a slower car throughout the majority of the races.

        You say he had a slower car. I say he did not. If you say ‘He finished behind Vettel in many races, therefore his car was slower than the RB” I can counter with “He finished ahead of Webber in many races, therefore his car was faster than the RB”.

        An engine failure is clearly bad luck. Somebody crashing into you is clearly bad luck. This “best car” stuff is something much more nebulous and hard to define. Sometimes it has a degree of merit, and sometimes its just a lame excuse – ‘He beat me, which PROVES that his car is much better than mine!”

        • Jon Sandor (@jonsan) said on 6th June 2013, 21:18

          WCC, I meant.

          • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 6th June 2013, 23:22

            @jonsan

            I’d define an engine failure as bad luck. I’d define having to start from the back because your team did not put enough fuel in the car as bad luck. How would you define it?

            Having to drive a slower car? That’s far more unfortunate than any of the minor hindrances you’ve listed.

            No, since what made the Red Bull ‘the best car” was the performances of the drivers in it. People use this phrase ‘best car” as if it’s as hard and concrete as “longest river”

            Webber has never been a top driver, and never will be. The fact that for the past 3 years, he’s regularly beaten Alonso and Hamilton in straight battles is more than enough evidence to suggest Red Bull had the best cars through 2010, 2011, and 2012.

            And it’s not, really. If Massa had not taken the first half of the 2012 season off, Ferrari would have taken the WCC. Check his points per race before and after Silverstone. What price the “best car” then?

            And if Webber had not taken the 2nd half of the 2012 season off, Red Bull would have wrapped up the WCC by Korea or India. There’s absolutely no doubt RBR had the best overall package in 2012.

            Red Bull – 7 wins and 8 poles.
            Ferrari – 3 wins and 2 poles.

            But I’m sure that was all Vettel.

            You say he had a slower car. I say he did not. If you say ‘He finished behind Vettel in many races, therefore his car was slower than the RB” I can counter with “He finished ahead of Webber in many races, therefore his car was faster than the RB”.

            And I can counter: Massa finished miles behind Vettel throughout most of those races, therefore Red Bull were totally dominant.

            An engine failure is clearly bad luck. Somebody crashing into you is clearly bad luck. This “best car” stuff is something much more nebulous and hard to define. Sometimes it has a degree of merit, and sometimes its just a lame excuse – ‘He beat me, which PROVES that his car is much better than mine!”

            So you’re saying that having an engine failure or someone crash into you is more unlucky than having to drive a slower car? Take 2011, ask Alonso if he’d drive the RB7 that year under the conditions that in 2 or 3 races, his engine would fail from the lead. Fernando would take this opportunity with both hands. Now ask Sebastian if he’d drive a bulletproof and reliable F150, he’d reject it. Having a slower car is far unluckier than having an occasional misfortune.

            Overall, comparing Red Bull to Ferrari in the past 3 years; RBR have scored 1608 points compared to 1171 for Ferrari. Red Bull have won 28 races compared to only 9 for Ferrari; and Red Bull have won all 3 constructors championships and drivers championships, beating Ferrari. Red Bull has clearly produced better cars than Ferrari in the past 3 years, therefore Vettel has been luckier than Alonso.

            It’s that simple.

          • OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 7th June 2013, 1:32

            @kingshark Luckier means now to be so talented that you can win a championship coming from behind (2010) and another one being defined at the last race and again, coming from behind (since first lap)… oh how lucky he is. F1 champions have been “just lucky” for 63 years in a row …

          • SeaHorse (@seahorse) said on 7th June 2013, 4:36

            coming from behind (since first lap)… oh how lucky he is.

            @omarr-pepper no serious damage happened for Vettel in that collision on first lap. He was lucky he hadn’t sustained any serious damage to his car. Look at the battle between Hulk and Hamilton in the same race. No doubt Vettel has been driving very good. And again no doubt that he has had fair amount of luck in his side.

          • John H (@john-h) said on 7th June 2013, 22:14

            I see pictures of Vettel and prancing horses, and surprisingly no-one agrees with each other.

            The way I see it is that Vettel deserves more credit (from Alonso and from a lot of fans) than he gets regardless of what car he has been driving. I don’t like Vettel particularly, but he is a superb driver just as much as Alonso is.

        • clmdwn222 said on 8th June 2013, 7:04

          @jonsan can’t agree more

    • Feuerdrache (@xenomorph91) said on 6th June 2013, 20:54

      If you consider that Vettel lost to Alonso 44 points and Vettel gained about 21 points on Alonso in Spa 2012 – as Belgium was Alonso’s only faultless DNF – then the championship would already have been over before the last race. Moreover, the RedBull had troubles in qualifying as Webber and Vettel sometimes not even reached Q3 unlike Alonso. And they obviously had troubles regaining that positions with the slow topspeeds they usually had in 2012 – often strategy was working out well for them to jump others in pits.

      • OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 7th June 2013, 15:11

        and Vettel gained about 21 points on Alonso in Spa 2012

        And what about the 32 points Alonso gain in Valencia due to Vettel retirement? (32=he would have lost 7 for being second, but with Vettel alternator’s problem he jumped to have 25 points). @xenomorph91 that was also a “faultless DNF” for Vettel.
        People want to forget some details when it looks convenient for their opinions

    • Max Jacobson (@vettel1) said on 6th June 2013, 22:53

      To be honest I define nothing as luck: luck is described as some sort of invisible entity like Karma which I don’t believe exists at all. You can be unfortunate absolutely but nobody is due misfortune!

      So no @jonsan, I’d define “an engine failure” or “starting from the back” as unfortunate! I’m just very touchy over the use of the word luck though ;)

      • Arrrang (@arrrang) said on 7th June 2013, 11:13

        Luck is a word used to describe unpredictability. Simple example: You can say I make my own luck (like using your skills and leading the championship;) but then again there is “he’s just pure lucky” (like being 3rd in the championship and knowing that to make good of your skills you have to be in the right place- for example not in front of/wheel to wheel with Grosjean/Perez;).
        @vettel There is something like luck. Because our fate depends not only on us. If you are living on a lonely island and hunt something for dinner you don’t say I’m so lucky that I can eat (because you used your skills and hunted something) but hen again you are (you might had not have the chance to use our skills and meet the deer or something). All skills are limited and you can’t control everything, F1 drivers are not gods, not even samurai gods;) Vettel will have his misfortune or will take all out his car and win the championship with ease. I say we will see Vettel cry again this year about something ’cause even if he does everything perfectly someone else may not (from other driver, mechanic, race engineer, someone at the factory, or the supplyer). I we don’t see it then IT WILL BE LUCK and skills if he nails it again:)

  11. mantresx (@mantresx) said on 6th June 2013, 20:57

    The amount of points Sebastian Vettel has scored so far this year is “not normal” and his luck will change eventually.

    Fernando should know, same thing happened to him at the beginning of last year and we all know who won in the end hehe

    • SeaHorse (@seahorse) said on 6th June 2013, 21:48

      Guys and girls stop reading too much into the first few lines of the article. It is not in his own words. Move a little down and you would what he had mentioned.

      • Robbie (@robbie) said on 6th June 2013, 22:51

        Well pointed out @seahorse

        Nor is FA commenting about last year, and if the posters above who would like to remind him of that had an opportunity to, I’d bet FA would agree he had some good luck last year too. And some bad luck. And ultimately this site voted him driver of the season even though he didn’t win the WDC, because ultimately he nearly won it with far less car than SV had.

        • Robbie (@robbie) said on 6th June 2013, 22:54

          Sorry he did comment that last year he had 2 points less at this time than he currently does, and was leading the WDC chase, but that’s all he says about last year.

      • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 8th June 2013, 0:01

        @seahorse The introductory paragraph does not quote Alonso directly (aside from the two words between double quote marks) but it does reflect what he said entirely accurately.

  12. Makana (@makana) said on 6th June 2013, 21:02

    I think Alonso is a hell of a fast driver, focused and ruthless, but his statements keep getting more and more childish. Does he really believe luck evens out at the end? Someone should ask him that!

  13. OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 6th June 2013, 21:14

    It’s time Vettel had some (crash / let’s call Piquet Jr / Massa will sacrifice by crashing into him / let’s find something illegal in that Red Bull) bad luck, says Alonso.

    • celeste (@celeste) said on 6th June 2013, 21:40

      @omarr-pepper

      let’s call Piquet Jr / Massa will sacrifice by crashing into him / let’s find something illegal in that Red Bull

      LOLZ

    • Deej92 (@deej92) said on 6th June 2013, 21:45

      @omarr-pepper Great comment.
      I don’t understand how Malaysia was “unlucky”. If he had had an engine failure then that would be unlucky.
      He should just concentrate on his own driving instead of these amateur mind games he likes to play. He’s hardly José Mourinho.

      • OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 6th June 2013, 22:21

        @deej92 I agree. Neither Malaysia or Barhain were completely “bad luck” because the team had some control on a possible solution in both situations: in Barhain it would have been enough not to open the DRS again, and in Malaysia he could have got into the pits for a new nose in order to recover and bring some points home.

      • clmdwn222 said on 8th June 2013, 7:11

        HAHA José Mourinho. Yes

  14. Lance (@lancelot) said on 6th June 2013, 21:31

    Really pathetic comments from Alonso. He’s a very good driver, but I almost dislike him when he keeps blaming “luck” and hoping others will have bad luck. Vettel is leading absolutely deservedly. He’s been great this year.

    • Robbie (@robbie) said on 6th June 2013, 23:05

      Any chance he’s being somewhat tongue in cheek? I think there is because he himself would be well aware that he can only control what he and the team can control anyway, and I don’t think you should assume it all comes down to luck or others’ bad luck for him. As a proven WDC I’m sure he would also prefer to drive his way to a WDC than depend on the misfortunes of others.

      And SV has been great this year, but he’s also been greedy and created a very uncomfortable situation on his team and he has some extra points because of disobeying a team order to hold station behind MW. No need to debate whether that was good or bad, showed class or no class, or simply showed WDC level determination, the point is it’s extra points that even his team would have had differently.

  15. SeaHorse (@seahorse) said on 6th June 2013, 21:42

    I don’t understand why people are twisting Alonso’s words and start pointing their guns against him. Maybe because of their dislike? I find nothing wrong in him saying that Vettel has scored hell of a lot of points compared to the previous year.

    What is not so normal is the amount of points Sebastian has scored in the last six races – a lot. We need to try and finish in front of him, because everyone has bad luck at some point and it will come to him as well.

    Not having bad luck doesn’t always translate into having luck. He hadn’t uttered that Vettel’s score is because of luck, had he? He is only saying eventually he will also have some of his moments in bad luck.

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 7th June 2013, 8:33

      @seahorse

      He hadn’t uttered that Vettel’s score is because of luck, had he?

      That is exactly what he is saying by implication in the quote in the fourth paragraph.

    • astonished (@astonished) said on 7th June 2013, 11:12

      Have to agree with this. He has not said anytime that Vettel has been lucky neither wished him bad luck.

      He says that himself has been unfortunate (questionable how much is your fault or team fault instead of bad luck, of course) and that he believes that everybody will eventually had spells of misfortune. He acknowledges that being closer to kimi is mostly due to a run of bad luck for him.

      I think that this time Keith shouldn’t read between lines and if so, at least don’t put words in somebody’s else mouth. “Says Alonso” is not true when you have to defend it “by implication”

      • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 7th June 2013, 11:26

        @astonished Alonso is clearly saying that Vettel is ahead of him because Vettel has had better luck. I don’t see how you can read his words any other way.

        • astonished (@astonished) said on 7th June 2013, 16:25

          I notice that you now say “better” instead of “good”. That’s a significant qualification of you earlier position. A completely different thing I would say…

          Still, although this last statement is more correct, you can not say that “it is time for vettel had bad luck” is a quote from him. This is what you think is implied in his words, nothing else

          Specifically all the “wishing Vettel bad luck” comments I think are a bit over the line

          Attractive and at the same time precise headlines is, perhaps, one of the most difficult task for a journalist. I guess…

          • Mo29 said on 8th June 2013, 0:11

            Don’t pay any attention to these clowns Keith. Anybody who isn’t comatose can see that’s exactly what Alonso is implying, something he does it very often. And your journalism is more than ok.

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