Kimi Raikkonen, Lotus, Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, Montreal, 2013

Raikkonen and Ricciardo given two-place grid drops

2013 Canadian Grand PrixPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Kimi Raikkonen, Lotus, Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, Montreal, 2013Kimi Raikkonen and Daniel Ricciardo have been relegated two places on the grid for the Canadian Grand Prix.

Both were found to have broken the rule requiring drivers to leave the pit lane in the order they arrived at the exit during the stoppage in Q2. Both drivers were found to have left the pits in a position that was two places higher than the one they arrived in.

Pastor Maldonado, Sergio Perez and Jean-Eric Vergne were cleared of the same infraction. All were found not to have gained positions and Maldonado had lost a place.

All five drivers claimed they started outside of the fast lane because they were intending to make practice starts. The stewards ruled “this does not alleviate the requirement to leave in the
order of arrival at the end of the pit lane”.

Raikkonen was also investigated for doing the same in Q3. However the stewards deciding against punishing him after agreeing that the car he passed, that of Mark Webber, was “unduly delayed” because he did not pull away until two seconds after Q3 had begun.

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84 comments on “Raikkonen and Ricciardo given two-place grid drops”

  1. ROFL…as if there wasn’t enough bad luck already for Lotus camp…..

    1. Such as?

    2. Kimi has no-one to blame but himself for being 2 seconds off the pace. Look at Bottas did in a Williams.

      1. ROFL….i guess it was his fault then when his car couldn’t generate any heat at all under wet condition.

        1. It’s the problem of having a car so easy on it’s tyres. The car just doesn’t create the tyre temperate needed in the wet.

          Kimi was never going to do well.

  2. 2 place grid penalties exist now? Do the stewards just pick random numbers out of their rear?

    1. @kingshark

      Both drivers were found to have left the pits in a position that was two places higher than the one they arrived in.

      1. Which had zero affect on anything at all. Great decision.

        1. @scratt well it did break the rule and may well have affected any other’s qualifying efforts so I think the decision is reasonable. Besides, 2 places isn’t massive!

          1. No it´s not.. and tomorrow will either be a run away win in the dry for Vettel with Bottas’ Williams holding people up.. or a crap shoot in the wet. The latter will at least let Alonso and Kimi do something.

            It just irks me that the Stewards jump on this kind of thing but won´t tackle the kind of infractions we see race after race from Crashtor or Pastor.

          2. Shreyas Mohanty (@)
            9th June 2013, 14:31

            @scratt You couldn’t be more off about the dry thing. This isn’t Monaco that Bottas will hold people up. In dry, He will be overtaken rapidly until he is among his own herd again. You fail to see that both Lotus and Ferrari are very easy on their tyres (the reason for under-performance in wet), so they will have great race pace! So this is when Kimi and Alonso will begin their charge.

          3. Possible. However, the Red Bull is still fast, and passing is not as easy as you seem to think.

            I think you are being way over optimistic.

            Alonso and Kimi are not just going to breeze past 6 – 8 drivers and roll up behind Vettel and pass him. It doesn´t happen like that on any kind of track; one with or without good passing opportunities.

          4. Guys, guys, let’s all remember… The setup they qualify on is the one they use for the race, right? what if teams like ferrari and lotus just planned ahead hoping the race was dry and went for a better race setup? Ah, speculation… There’s only one way to know for sure, right?

        2. @scratt As I explained to you earlier it may have affected the laps of the drivers they took position from. It stands to reason that’s why the rule is there to begin with.

          1. rgr that. :) Was just going to reply actually.
            My real frustration is actually explained in the comment I just left above.

    2. hahaha, i believe their plan to introduce points system would be denied by all teams given the stewarding panels lacking credibility in giving out judgment.

    3. @kingshark The rules state (and have done for some time) that the stewards may impose “a drop of any number of grid positions”. Still I think this is the first time we’ve had a two-place drop. Three, five and ten have been seen before.

      1. Also, Raikkonen and Ricciardo only end up losing one place each due to the way the rules work. Explanation here.

      2. firstLapNutcaseGrosjean (@)
        8th June 2013, 23:41

        Yeah, but not for this! This is first time in history?! Plus how much the team guilt was?

        1. @sorin It wasn’t the teams’ fault at all – it was down to Raikkonen and Ricciardo where they stopped at the pit exit and how many cars they passed when they pulled away.

          I don’t really understand the other part of your comment. It’s against the rules and if rules were never enforced for a first time they’d never be enforced at all.

    4. I think its good that the stewards have gone from giving a standard 5 place grid penalty to actually think about how much of an advantage was gained @kingshark. As its only 2 spots, its pretty clear that the advantage was not that great.

    5. @kingshark Keith just explained multiple times what I was going to say but since I was looking at the regulations briefly before seeing your comment I might as well dig it out:

      “In the event of a driving infringement during any practice session the Stewards may drop the
      driver such number of grid positions as they consider appropriate. Unless it is completely clear
      that a driver committed a driving infringement any such incident will normally be investigated
      after the relevant session.”

      Qualifying, according to the regulations, is still a ‘practice session’, just mentioning it to avoid any further disputes. I do find it a bit strange how they’ve now started giving 2/3 grid penalties, like with Hamilton in India 2011, the latter was the first I’ve heard of such a grid drop other than the ‘standard’ 5/10 grid drops. A 2 place grid drop is fittingly appropriate as both Raikkonen and Ricciardo did exit the pits two places higher than they entered the pits when the red flag came out.

  3. Good news for his rivals.

  4. However the stewards deciding against punishing him after agreeing that the car he past, that of Mark Webber, was “unduly delayed” because he did not pull away until two seconds after Q3 had begun.

    Jeez, this guy just isn’t good at getting away from a standstill…

    1. I think you will find he was waiting for his team mate to leave the pits… but I’m pretty sure you’re joking!

      Come now, we couldn’t expect Webber to pull a Hamilton leaving the pits at Canada, eh? ;-)

    2. Jeez, this guy just isn’t good at getting away from a standstill…

      I laughed SOOOOO hard on this one! XD

  5. Alexander (@)
    8th June 2013, 22:39

    Does this mean kimi can choose his starting tyres tomorrow??

    1. Alexander (@)
      8th June 2013, 22:41

      Aah forgot about the wet quali..

    2. Everybody can if it’s a dry race, not sure what the regulations are if they start on interns.

    3. @alexanderfin All the drivers can anyway because no one used slicks in Q3.

      (Had Raikkonen qualified on slicks in Q3 and then received a penalty relegating him outside of the top ten, the answer would be no.)

  6. Is that rule relatively recent? Because I remember Kubica overtaking everyone by simply starting next to whoever was in front in quali in I think Malaysia 2010 it was.

    1. @victor Yes it was introduced after that – it was new in 2011:

      The 2011 F1 rules changes at-a-glance

    2. I have to dig deep, I’m pretty sure this has happened before and no one cared about it. All I say is to Lotus to sign that tyre agreement asap.

      1. All I say is to Lotus to sign that tyre agreement asap.

        What are you on about? And why should they sign it if it takes away their advantage?

  7. How, exactly, does this affect anything? I’m not even sure what they’ve done.

  8. Absolutely ridiculous penalty that affected nobody in the end.

    But anyway if it was a dry quali would it mean that Ricciardo still had to start on the tyres he qualified on or could he choose?

    1. @davef1
      Whether it affected others or not isn’t all that relevant. If a driver is caught speeding in the pitlane he is also penalized. The rules are the rules and they must be followed.

  9. I think this is fair to be honest, it looked pretty messy from the outside, especially considering the guys at the back didn’t manage to make it before the flag.

    1. firstLapNutcaseGrosjean (@)
      8th June 2013, 23:47

      It’s not Raikkonen fault for that. They had plenty of time.

  10. I have seen drivers do this before, and no action was taken, the FIA is very consistent as usual.

      1. I must admit that I forgot about the rule from 2011. Rules are rules so the penalty was right.

        But again the FIA could be more consistent, as we often see drivers racing each other in the pitlane during a race without any penalties. Or drivers who only receiving reprimands for speeding in yellow zones. And in the last race drivers who were skipping the chicane as often as they wanted, the FIA used the be pretty strict about skipping the chicane. Or Rosberg blocking the other drivers today in qualifying, previously these types of cases have been penalized.
        All of these examples are much more dangerous then two drivers lining up in the pitlane, and not driving out in the right position.

        But that is how it goes, that is the FIA for you.

        1. we often see drivers racing each other in the pitlane during a race without any penalties

          The operative term here is “racing”. Ricciardo and Raikkonen were not racing – they were qualifying, and the rules dictate that they must leave the pits in a specific order. They didn’t, and so they got a penalty for it.

          Or drivers who only receiving reprimands for speeding in yellow zones.

          Again, it depends on when the infraction was committed. If they speed in yellow zones during qualifying or the race, they are going to get a ahrsher penalty than if they do it during free practice. And the rules on the proper procedure for yellow flags were rewritten in 2011.

          And in the last race drivers who were skipping the chicane as often as they wanted, the FIA used the be pretty strict about skipping the chicane.

          And then they got the drivers’ steward in, and they have relaxed the rules about cutting over the chicane. They cannot do it intentionally, but the stewards won’t punish them for makign genuine mistakes.

          Or Rosberg blocking the other drivers today in qualifying

          The definition of a block holds that a driver has blocked if he forces another driver to slow down on their flying lap. And the stewards have access to the telemetry from each car, so if the drivers following Rosberg didn’t have to back off because of him, then he didn’t block them. There’s also a tolerance for wet weather.

          See, the problem is that you’re assuming an infraction has been committed based on a single camera angle. The stewards have access too all the footage from all the angles, pit-to-car radio transmissions, telemetry and probably half a dozen other tools. They are much better equipped than you or I to judge these things.

  11. rubbish. i like to see racing out of the pits!
    or is this more about lining up nicely at pit exit…?

    1. The pit lane is filled with people at both sides, not a place to race.

    2. Even though its fairly dangerous, I have to admit seeing a virtual “race start” out of the pit lane on a Saturday was pretty ridiculously funny!

  12. ShaneB457 (@shaneb12345678910)
    8th June 2013, 22:54

    Raikkonen’s love affair with the Montreal pit lane continues…

  13. Good decision by FIA. Now I’m more interested for your next ridiculous investigations. Looking forward to it.

  14. What a joke Formula 1 is now, with a bunch of stupid rules. There’s no more racing? tires are a joke. And now if a driver farts some stupid gives him a place penalty. **** them.

    1. However obscure the rule might be, it is still a rule, and the drivers are expected to be familiar with it. If they aren’t, then they deserve the penalty all the more.

    2. LOL… +1

    3. This rule does not seem stupid to me at all. If they give no penalty for this now, what will we have next time? Cars lining up four-abreast and going for a racing-style start when the light goes green?

      1. I suspect that if we were talking about drivers like Giedo van der Garde or Esteban Gutierrez getting this kind of penalty, people wouldn’t care less. But because Kimi Raikkonen is one of the most popular drivers in the sport, people are up in arms about it.

        1. Precisely. How can they give a penalty to the oh-so-great Kimi Raikkonen who never does anything wrong?

  15. So Perez will start behind Raikkonen…
    It may be interesting… ;)

  16. What would Red Bull had to do according to the rules if they wanted to line up? Their garages are right by the traffic light, so once a queue has formed they can’t really line up at the end anymore.

  17. They get penalties but Hamilton doesn’t get anything for reversing his car into traffic? He nearly took out Massa in Q2!

    1. Er.. what?

      Do you mean Rosberg going forwards and nearly hitting Massa, or both Hamilton and Massa separately reversing out of an escape road perfectly safely and within the rules?

      1. Sorry, meant the Rosberg move. It is the stupid yellow helmets lol.

  18. A penalty well deserved for Raikkonen, a lot of people seem to be blinded by Kimi’s “coolness” and “dont-give-a-****” attitude, and tend to overlook his mistakes…this time I believe he deserved the penalty, as he did in Monaco for blocking Perez (as stated by Jacques Villeneuve, he said the same thing during an interview today…).

  19. So no one noticed there were other drivers doing exactly the same thing behind them ?

    1. But the other guys (not Rai or Ric) left in the order they arrived.

  20. what happened to Rosberg then??? he pushed 2 cars off the track, why shouldnt he be penalised?

  21. I find it a bit rubbish that stuff like this needs policing. Just get on with it. Get to the end of the pitlane as soon as you can. If you’re too slow, boo hoo.

    1. When was the last F1 death?

      1. may 1st 1994

        1. That was a trap…

    2. @splittimes so suppose I blocked you on your flying lap because you “didn’t get out of the pits fast enough”, should we not police that?

      1. @vettel1 @tvm I’m not saying it should be a free-for-all in the pits, and yesterday’s display showed the rule has nothing to do with safety. But I’m quite sure that if you can’t time your exit from the pits to optimise your lap, then try harder next time. And if you get blocked on a fast lap, I maintain the argument. Its often unfortunate, but rarely intentional or unsafe, and I think its the responsibility of all parties to ensure it doesn’t happen, not just the slow cars’. It only takes a small mistiming of looking in your mirror. If a driver is on a slow lap and isn’t looking in their mirrors, isn’t off-line etc, then yes, they’re driving unsafely.

        I think, as I’ve mentioned before, the teams have too much power to complain and whine, armed with the threat of leaving the sport. These kind of infractions and penalties are relatively easy to police, with no moral losers (when it is accidental). But the punishment of genuinely dangerous driving is is almost nonexistant, because it could quickly become political, and that would mean departing sponsors.

        1. (@splittimes) I agree with there being to many ways to complain, I personally resent the “racing line right” that Raikkonen used at last race, leave a gap; expect it to be filled, this is racing. (Perez being crazy to think he could have pulled that is another matter… :) )

          But when it comes to safety they need be hard, and I don’t agree with you that it was safe what those guys were doing, there was actually an unprotected photographer right in front of them on the pavement, there is reason for these rules, at lease one driver in the pack has severely injured a marshal when not respecting yellow. Should have been 5 places IMO.

          1. @tvm They haven’t been punished for being unsafe, but for gaining track advantage. I fully agree with you that it wasn’t safe and that the punishments should have been harsher. I was a bit offended with your comment implying I was thinking recklessly, but I totally understand you now. And my first comment wasn’t clear at all.

  22. Seems reasonable. However the Rosberg thing should have been investigated and was enough for a reprimand, imo. Grosjean would start on 34th position had he done the same thing.
    I hope the stewards will stop next year to take the history/status of a driver as a baseline for penalties – the point system should take care of educating drivers not the individual penalty.

    1. Dion (@infinitygc)
      9th June 2013, 11:01

      I fully agree, what Rosberg did was dangerous and could be counted as a reason for various penalties (blocking and pushing other people of the track).

    2. I’m not so sure: the point of a penalty is to deter the respective driver from committing the offence again and to punish a driver from ruining someone else’s weekend/putting others at risk. So if all is needed for Rosberg is a talking to prevent any repeat occurrences which may have had more serious ramifications then I’d support that.

      However, Grosjean clearly won’t take that on board and so he needs to be heavily punished because he just keeps making these stupid moves!

      1. Since Grojean is technically only going to be moving down 3 spots on the grid today, he should have the remaining 7 grid slots on the penalty carry over to the next race.

        1. @irejag Na, that just over-complicates matters! It’s punishment enough starting last IMO.

          1. If it were any other driver I would agree with you, but this is Grosjean. lol

  23. Perhaps Ricciardo’s penalty was a great strategy call by Torro Rosso. When the red flag came out, wasn’t Ricciardo 14th? He starts 11th, therefore a net gain of 3 grid positions including the penaty. Can’t remember what Kimi was at that stage.

    So if your in the bottom 6 with a relatively poor time to what the car can do, and, limited on time, the strategy is to jump the rest as like Ricciardo, to increase the chance of one more lap. If they didn’t, Ricciardo might have done a Button and Webber, just missing out on starting his final lap and starting 14th. We might just see more of these handed out in future races.

  24. Anybody knows about tire choice for Rai, starting from 11th? Will it be still decided from quali?

    1. @alfa145
      Qualifying was wet; all the drivers can start the race on whatever tires they want.

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