Fernando Alonso, Ferrari, Hungaroring, 2013

Alonso dismisses link to 2014 Red Bull seat

2013 Hungarian Grand PrixPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Fernando Alonso, Ferrari, Hungaroring, 2013Fernando Alonso said he was unaware of moves by his management to get into the vacant seat at Red Bull alongside Sebastian Vettel in 2014.

Alonso, who is under contract with Ferrari until 2016, said “I don’t think so,” when asked if his manager had spoken to Red Bull over a possible move. “Not that I know of,” he added.

“I’m concentrating on the championship. These are rumours that always in August is good time for rumours because we have four weeks with not a Formula One race.”

Christian Horner said Red Bull were “not stuck for choice” on a replacement for Mark Webber next year. “We’re starting to get a clearer picture but then other options suddenly pop up.”

“We’re in a fortunate position where we’re not in a rush, we’ve got a great deal of interest in the seat, and we just want to make sure we get it right.”

Asked if he would like Alonso as a team mate next year Vettel said: “I’d prefer Kimi [Raikkonen]!”

“Nothing against Fernando, I really respect him a lot as a driver but I think I respect Kimi on-track, off-track, because he’s always been very straight with me and from that point of view it might be a bit easier.”

Alonso, who lost his grip on second place in the drivers’ championship today, urged Ferrari to respond to their struggles in recent races:

“July in general the month has been not so good for us in terms of how competitive we’ve been this month, in Nurburgring, Silverstone and Hungary. We need to react immediately and as I said in Nurburgring we need three or four consecutive races that will close any gap with the leaders and we need to do it.”

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Image ?? Ferrari/Ercole Colombo

190 comments on “Alonso dismisses link to 2014 Red Bull seat”

  1. I dont think Rbr would like to be blackmailed or lose 100m

    1. So now you’re blaming Alonso for McLaren’s blatant cheating?

      1. you don’t betray your team that paid you millions no matter what.

        And its not like alonso had been angel in 2007. he got kimi raikkonen ‘s setup data, race strategy, fuel level from Mike Coughlan via email.

        1. as per mclaren their history speaks for itself. They managed to **** off enough to leave the following:

          Prost, Senna, Montoya, Kimi, Fernando and Lewis.

          Thats alot of great drivers who got fed up with them. 11 world champions

          1. Nathan (@il-ferrarista)
            29th July 2013, 0:41

            +100, also Pat Fry, Newey, Paddy Lowe, Ron tried/asked Schumacher in the mid-90’s, + + + .

            Seriously speaking, can someone please explain me what really IS the problem with McLarens working environment??

          2. In fairness, while I do understand (and agree for the most part) the point you are making, I think you’re wrong to include Senna in that list. Senna leaving McLaren wasn’t anything to do with a breakdown of relations with the team; it was because McLaren had failed to produce a decent car, and Senna saw that his only opportunity (as he saw it) to win another championship was to change teams. By all accounts the relationship with McLaren remained amicable throughout, and there was very little bad feeling about it.

            But you’re right – McLaren have struggled to hold on to genuine talent over and over again through the years, while also often squandering the chances they’ve generated for themselves by repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot. It’s a shame to admit that, since I do really like McLaren and what they represent in the sport, but you can’t really argue with their track record. When you look at all the resources and talent they’ve had available to them over the years, you can only conclude that they have massively underachieved.

      2. Alonso was a very integral part to this cheating. There were e-mails where Alonso was asking specific questions about Ferrari secrets.

        1. I have been looking for that info. I would like to know where I can find it. Thanks

          1. It was in the FIA report on the case. Some details from these e-mails were quoted in there.

          2. @patrickl

            Links please. :D

          3. Geez do you guys lack any form of Google fu?

            http://lmgtfy.com/?q=alonso+email+ferrari+secrets

      3. Pay attention, he didn’t write that. The fact is that Alonso was all over the Ferrari data and using it in the simulator, then tried to blackmail Dennis when McLaren wouldn’t give him preferential treatment, so Dennis call him on it and advised the FIA. This gave Mosley the chance to act against Dennis who he had issues with, hence the ridiculous fine.

        Then the Horse Whisperer ranted about that new team that never was trying to sign Coughlan and how anyone involved was tainted…then they hired their new messiah in Alonso and nothing further was said about it. Funny that.

    2. What kind of a driver does something like that?

      I’d forgotten about what Alonso does when he’s unhappy.

      1. Did you forgot what Hamilton did when he was unhappy in the 2009 Australian GP ????

        1. well, he learnt from the best.

        2. A burnout?

  2. Just for the quick googlers amongst us: Alonso’s manager is named Luis Garcia Abad, who also manages GP3 driver Carlos Sainz Jr. He has been part of the Red Bull Junior Team since 2010 (his GP3 Koiranen car also features the Red Bull livery) and tested for the team during the ‘young’ drivers’ test at Silverstone last week.

    I.e. please don’t read too much into this, people.

    1. dont worry, no one will

    2. @andae23 he he LOL…..There is already a lot to read from your post :)

    3. So basically Alonso’s manager was talking to Red Bull about Sainz, not Alonso.

    4. Maybe but I’m sure Alonso patience is starting to wear thin now. It wouldn’t surprise me if his name was mentioned in this meeting.

    5. Alonso is managed by Flavio Briatore since he entered F1, so any decision over his future has to pass by Flavio, i know that Luis Garcia Abad is also his manager (a bit confusing) & i don’t know what is exactly his role

      1. Perhaps his role is to go to other teams talking about Alonso under the guise of being the manager of Sainz jr?

      2. Flavio Briatore has wrights on the Alonso contract, because he was the person who “discover” him, but he never has acted as Alonso manager, who is Luis García Abad since many years ago.

        When Flavio realized Alonso potential, he bought TV rights from Bernie for Spanish TV (At that time, spanish market were almost inexistent for Bernie, just TV3 -Cataluña regional TV-), take out of Renault everybody who can disturb Alonso (i.e.: Buttton, Trulli…) and make him 2 times world champion earning a lot of money with contracts with private TV operator Tele 5.

        Bernie happy, Flavio happy, Alonso happy… And all three richer than previously!

    6. Also, Sainz Jr drives for Arden in GP·, Horner’s team

      1. … which I incorrectly referred to as ‘Koiranen’, my bad

  3. RaceProUK (@)
    28th July 2013, 18:57

    The Silly Season has started…

    1. It never ends…

  4. For Alonso, a ‘Legend’ in his own mind, driving an ‘Energey Drink Car’ would be demeaning. And if somehow it turned out that he couldn’t beat Vettel, well, we’d have another case of the child getting mad, taking his toys and running home to mother.

    1. There’s nothing to your post but thinly veiled contempt for Alonso.

      1. @colossal-squid, My comment is based of the actions and comments of Alonso, and his not-so thinly veiled contempt for Red Bull

        1. @alebelly74 I have yet to see him call himself a legend, that’s just supposition on your part. As is your entire comment. If you’re going to criticise Alonso then fine, but it’s sad when you blatantly manufacture barbs to hurl at him.

    2. PMccarthy_is_a_legend (@pmccarthy_is_a_legend)
      28th July 2013, 19:47

      Nonsense, if you are a racing driver you want the fastest car, the rest is just noise. @alebelly74

      1. @pmccarthy_is_a_legend So, when McLaren had the fastest car and Alonso quit . . .

        1. PMccarthy_is_a_legend (@pmccarthy_is_a_legend)
          28th July 2013, 21:27

          What’s that got to do with anything? Sorry is it ok if I just ignore you mate? You are not making a lot of sense. Thanks @alebelly74

        2. Jimmy please don’t try and disguise insipid contempt as fact. Only an ignoramus would believe your tripe statements. I’m sure alonso is shaking in his boots reading your words. What a fool you are.

      2. sao paulo taxi driver (@sao-paulo-taxi-driver)
        29th July 2013, 1:05

        I can think of a few drivers over the years who have passed up the chance to race for more competitive teams, in order to drive for Ferrari; heritage is clearly alluring to many drivers, and this is something RBR simply don’t have.

        1. jimscreechy (@)
          29th July 2013, 16:57

          Really? I can’t think of any. I think it is true that drivers ultimately want to drive for the prestigious teams, but only because they tend to have the largest budgets the best designers, or the most knowledgeable engineers… which tend to produce the best vehicles. Perez and a whole host of others wanted to go to McLaren this season but now they are being beaten by force India, I hardly think so many feel hard done by. Yes, drivers will still want to go to McLaren, but only because they still believe they are capable of producing a winning car in the near future. Williams is a prime example of a pedigree team no top driver would (currently) touch with a barge pole, but most probably still believe Williams are capable of recapturing their former glory if they get things together. The name alone is nothing without a car to compete with. Alonso fully expected (and still expects) Ferrari to give him something he can win with, at the very least! – a competitive car. If he believed for one minute that that would not happen from now till his contract ends in 2016 a herd of prancing horses would not keep him there, contract penalties or not.

  5. …Well he shouldn’t. I mean he should talk with them. OK, based on 2007, a driver of a similarly high calible, such as Hamilton, seems to be his Achilles, but still, I often wonder just how much better he could be in a better car…

    1. again WDC ? :)

  6. I won’t be surprised if Alonso is interested. He blew the chance in 2009 when he opted for Ferrari. Ferrari has been so far providing him lackluster car fighting for 5 or 6th in Qualy and after a Great start and Defensive drive fighting for 4th and 5th position.

    I am starting to get a feel that Alonso is bound for another Alian Prost experience with Ferrari. Though I would not go too far to say he will be sacked like Prost for criticizing the slow car. Kimi saw the tough times ahead and gladly left the team with a bag full of money…… :)

    1. Sad to say but if Ferrari start off on the wrong foot with the new reg’s next year, I think Alonso should just retire and begin enjoying all the money he’s had no time as of yet to use.

      1. Nathan (@il-ferrarista)
        29th July 2013, 0:48

        May actually be possible, sad but true yeah. Or perhaps follow Webber in WEC or something else similar?

  7. Slight typo, it says ‘Ferrari’ rather than Red Bull. “Christian Horner said Ferrari were “not stuck for choice” on a replacement for Mark Webber next year. ”

    I would have liked to have seen Mark Webber in a prancing horse!

  8. What a ridiculously unrealistic rumour that is.

  9. “I think I respect Kimi on-track, off-track, because he’s always been very straight with me and from that point of view it might be a bit easier.”

    … except for that incident at turn 4…

    1. From Vettel’s post-race comments he seems over it already. Apparently all Raikkonen had to do was laugh at him.

    2. What he means is that he’s more afraid of Alonso.

      1. @jason12 He is politely saying Alonso is a manipulative lying politician and that he wouldn’t be caught dead driving next to Alosno, because he knows that unless he plays second fiddle Alonso, the team will be destroyed.

  10. Alonso to Red-Bull may not happen. But there is no smoke without fire.

    It would be some coup for Red-Bull. To deny the biggest and most powerful team in the sport, who have challenged them the hardest for the last 4 years, of their best asset would be a real signal of intent going forward. They are already the best. But this is the equivalent of Goetze leaving Dortmund for Bayern. Basically they can shaft Ferrari to already make a brilliant team even better. It also underlines Red-Bull status the top team in F1.

    For Alonso it is no-brainer as well. For the last 3 years there have not been able to figure their wind tunnel. Every year, the same mistakes are being made despite the time and massive amounts of money being spent. It is just utter Incompetence. Lotus & Mercedes have out developed them this year. And McLaren was faster last year.

    I doubt that Alonso would move for 2014, afterall Red-Bull may struggle badly with the new rule changes as they don’t play into Newey’s hands quite like the current regulations do. But if there are the same problems than I can see Alonso kicking off big time and demanding a move, with Red-Bull happy to take him on, with or without Vettel.

    1. Well, lets hope Alonso doesn’t leave Ferarri…. That means PDR would be getting all excited then when he gets passed over, another year of crying.

      1. There are few things funnier in F1 than an angry PDR.

    2. But there is no smoke without fire.

      @Brum55 Of course! But lets not mistake the source of the fire (Carlos Sainz Jr)

  11. I think that’s a non-rumour all round. It’s Kimi and Dan for the seat.

    1. @vettel1
      Why? Scared? ;)

      1. seriously……Fernando is nothing without no.1 status. Believe it or not, he cant thrive with competitive teammate whereas Seb has Mark alongside and beat him thoroughly.

        Scared??? what a joke.

        1. A ” ;) ” means he was joking.

          But Alonso did alright against Lewis (on track only, despite losing the championship), and beat his other teammates.

        2. Webber is a competitive teammate? Now that’s what you call a joke.

          1. Mark is not exactly a slouch of a driver.

          2. +1000

            I mean, really….

          3. 100 times more competitive than Massa i would say.

            Do i need to remind you how many times had Alonso been outqualified by Massa this year?? while Webber couldn’t even scratch vettel’s gearbox.

      2. @kingshark no I’d love it but I don’t see it happening ;)

      3. Scared of a man sice 06 who as not got it done in the final race dciders, yet the younger guy does it. The Samurai is not be all and end all of F1. Vet should be the one talking himself up not Alo, afterall Alo proved he could not beat a rookie who was faster, Ham outqualified Alo with more fuel many times.

    2. Kimi to RBR also started as a non-rumor :) But here I think you’re right – probably just a bit of a bargaining chip to put pressure on Ferrari.

    3. Jack (@jackisthestig)
      28th July 2013, 21:59

      Maybe nothing to do with the Webber seat, perhaps an Alonso/Vettel straight swap.

      1. Candice wrote:

        100 times more competitive than Massa i would say.

        Based on what? Nothing but wishful thinking? Massa has done everything in his career Webber has.

        Do i need to remind you how many times had Alonso been outqualified by Massa this year?? while Webber couldn’t even scratch vettel’s gearbox.

        I’m not sure if the gap to teammates is an intelligent subject a Vettel fan would want to bring up when discussing Alonso vs Vettel.

        1. @david-a

          Mark is not exactly a slouch of a driver.

          I (yes it was me) never said he was, but there’s absolutely not the slightest good reason to believe that he’s any better than Massa, let alone “100 times” better.

          1. you must be kidding me if you think webber is not better driver than massa.

            Not to mention Massa was ahead of alonso in silverstone and nurburgring prior the tire puncture and stupid mistake of him spunning the car.

            such situation will never happen to Vettel.

        2. why not?? look at the point gaps will magnify the truth of Massa being hopeless and Fernando having a hard time to deal with such hopeless driver so far in qualifying.

  12. PMccarthy_is_a_legend (@pmccarthy_is_a_legend)
    28th July 2013, 19:42

    I think RBR would give F1 a massive boost next year by daring to have two top drivers on their cars. The sport and the fans would benefit from it and they would cement their place in the history of the sport. Besides this is what Red Bull (the brand) stands for: Daring, competitive, cool. Please no more second rate drivers on the second seat, we want to see great rivalries, that’s how history is made!

    1. That’s why they’re trying to get Kimi in the team alongside Vettel.

      1. PMccarthy_is_a_legend (@pmccarthy_is_a_legend)
        29th July 2013, 15:21

        fingers crossed

  13. Alonso doesn’t need to go to red bull. Ferrari just needs to make an offer to Adrian newey that he can’t refuse.

    1. You talk like the godfather .What offer ? a gun on his head ? Newey has the big bucks and the fame already . But yeah they can entice him to work for the scuderia .BTW how old is newey ? Red Bull need him for new regs in 2014 . So , not happening IMO .

    2. With James Allison coming, they likely don’t need Newey.

      1. Yeh because Allison is so what they need, Check Lotus Bad qualifiying car, Check Ferrari bad qualifying car is Allison this great upgrade lol.

  14. He barely denied it. “I don’t think so” is F1 speak for “Of course he did, but nothing came of it (yet)”.

    Also, did you see his face when he said it? Lol, that big smile when he “denied” it. Then right after there were interviews with Horner and Vettel with the suggestion that “suddenly” there is a third option.

    Of course it could be a rehearsed trick from the Red Bull guys to drive Alonso crazy, but it makes much more sense that Alonso does want to go to Red Bull.

    1. Even in the unlikely event that Alonso wanted to go to Red Bull, I can’t Imagine Red Bull wanting to take hm. He’s near the complete opposite of what RB want, both in terms of personality (where has has a LOT of baggage) and in driving style. The foundation of the winning RB formula has been built on excellent qualifying results. Alonso has undoubted strengths as a driver, but exceptional qualifying pace is not one of them.

      1. I think Alonso would love to be in that RB. He sounded so depressed about his Ferrari in that interview.

        Indeed I’m also not sure what RB would have to gain by hiring Alonso. He’s a better racer than Vettel, but they don’t need that. Their car is fast enough. Still, the same holds for Kimi.

        Alonso actually is a great qualifier though. As he demonstrated in his Renault years. It’s just that nowadays qualifying is a compromise.

        People seem to not understand this, but cars can be setup for the race or qualifying. Setup the car to go fast on a light fuel and they will lose out during the race. Or set up the car for the race and lose some places in qualifying.

        The points are awarded at the end of the race. Not at the end of qualifying. DRS and the tyre tombola makes it easy to overtake. So it makes sense that some drivers will opt more for a race setup.

        Just look at today’s race. Drivers like Kimi and Alonso clearly set up their car for the race instead of trying to gain a few positions in qualifying. They have been doing so for quite a while. It works great for them. They gain more places during the race than they could in qualifying. Or at least that would be the purpose of that strategy.

        1. I think Alonso would love to be in that RB

          Given Alonso’s history, I doubt that very much. Being in the RB means being in the RB team, which means no more being given undisputed No. One status. Twice in his career he’s found himself being beaten by a teammate – by Hamilton and by Trulli. And he responded both times in an exceptionally ugly fashion. Do RB really want a driver who would try to blackmail them into slowing Seb down?

          1. ugly with Jarno?

            They are great mates by the way, and were when he left the team.

            I think the issues were with flav after jarno lost 3rd at france.

          2. It’s pretty much the only car that can win championships. Of course he wants to be in that car. Just like Senna wanted to bail McLaren and go to his arch rival Williams and didn’t care if Prost was there or not in 1992.

            Alonso beaten by Trulli really? At which point was Trulli ever ahead of Alonso? Even when Alonso entered the team as a rookie in 2003 he immediately was in front of Trulli.

            If Anything Trulli couldn’t handle being humiliated by Alonso. The shock of being beaten so comprehensively by a rookie can unsettle a guy. The same happened to Alonso with Hamilton (prior to the season Alonso was complaining that a rookie Hamilton was no use and De la Rosa should have been in the team). In both cases the disgruntled veteran was thrown out of the team.

          3. @patrickl
            Trulli may have been outclassed by Alonso in 2003 but clearly you have not seen the 2004 season… Trulli was the one who won Renault’s only race in 2004 and he was ahead of Alonso in the standings up to the point where he got sacked by Renault. Had the relationship between him and Flavio not soured he would probably not have driven as poorly in the second half of 2004 and it’s not a stretch to say that he would have been able to finish ahead of Alonso in the standings.

          4. @David Margono

            Well that was mostly because Alonso got pushed off by a backmarker in Monaco while running in second behind Trulli’s win.

            I’ll just rephrase your claim:
            Had Trulli not driven so poorly in the second half of 2004, probably the relationship between him and Flavio would not have soured.

          5. @patrickl

            Well Alonso should have been more careful while lapping Ralf Schumacher, I don’t see Trulli crashing out. Yes, Trulli made a mistake in the French Grand Prix that year and costed Renault a double-podium finish in their home race and ever since then his relationship with Flavio went downhill, but prior to that he was the one beating Alonso and thus it’s not right to say that Alonso demolished him, it may have been the case in 2003 but in 2004 (For the first half anyway) it was the complete opposite. Just to let you know, Trulli was ahead of Alonso in the standings up to the point where he was sacked by Renault despite not scoring points for 4 races in a row (46 points to Alonso’s 45), that should pretty much explain the margin of superiority Trulli had and that should pretty much answer your question: “Alonso beaten by Trulli really? At which point was Trulli ever ahead of Alonso?”

            A driver doesn’t just go from such crushing form to not scoring any points for 4 races in a row so it’s safe to assume that he was only performing that poorly because it’s pretty clear Flavio favoured Alonso and didn’t want to retain Trulli after that blunder in the French Grand Prix. I mean come on, yes it’s a mistake but not a severe one, Trulli was doing so well up to that point and now you wanna fire him just because of one mistake? I bet that Flavio felt that his golden boy (Alonso) was getting shown up and wanted to find a way to get rid of Trulli so that he won’t be threatened >_> Alonso himself feels that way; you should already know what happened with him and McLaren in 2007.

          6. @patrickl

            To add on to what I’ve just mentioned, Fisichella and especially Piquet fared much worse against Alonso than Trulli but I don’t see them getting the boot for it. Why? Because Flavio knew they were not a threat to Alonso unlike Trulli, who only had a barren streak that led to his early dismissal because he knew he won’t be retained by Renault for the 2005 season. A shame really, if he had waited one more year to up his game he would have very well been the WDC after seeing how dominant Renault was in 2005. So yes, Trulli was a match for Alonso in his prime but never got to maximize his potential due to the politics.

  15. Textbook PR tactics from Alonso. He was invited to deny something and responded as negatively as he could but stopped short of giving a straight denial (“I don’t think so… not that I know of”).

    But of course just because his manager had a chat with Christian Horner doesn’t mean he’s actually going to Red Bull. If nothing else, cutting a deal with Ferrari short by three years would surely come with a pretty swingeing financial penalty.

    1. OMG Keith has commented directly on a post . That’s rare :D .

    2. @keithcollantine If you look at the footage from which you’ve made a transcript, you can see Lee McKenzie basically put those words in Alonso’s mouth. So I’m not sure if this is politics or just trying to look relaxed and cool.

    3. We know Alonso makes comments like these just to create a sort of frenzy (for the lack of a better term). But I must admit, the thought of Alonso and Vettel in the same time is a great thought, for us fans anyway…

      1. @gfreeman It’s not as if he instigated this, he was asked a direct question.

        1. I know he didn’t instigate it, but I’m just saying that his reply doesn’t exactly surprise me because it’s the sort of indirect reply I’d expect from him.

          1. Oh my gosh well now that you let him know about it I’m sure Fernando will tell you everything directly and without so much as a pause… thats his job right? Its not driving… its being direct for people like you.

  16. Remember RBR are in this as a business and marketing tool.

    Currently they are winning but they have a driver that isnt too popular, its no good for their ‘fun’ brand to have a driver that is booed and disliked. There are 2 options round this 1. Get Kimi who is mostly loved, only down side is he is useless at PR 2. Great a super team with seb and fernando, let the sparks fly and tell the world your brand gave F1 what it wants ‘the 2 best in the same car’

    Either is better than having the most disliked driver advertising your brand. Win or not its not great for them.

    1. Does Kimi mix his Vodka with Red Bull? If so, he wouldn’t have to do much marketing. Just do what he normally does.

    2. “Most disliked” by who, exactly? The total F1 audience is in the tens of millions. The members of the British F1 press corp and the people who leave comments on sites like this one probably number, what …. a couple of thousand people all together?

      After Richard Nixon won a landslide election victory in the US, a film critic remarked in surprise “I only know one person who voted for Nixon”. It’s a mistake to confuse the people in our own little bubble for the public at large.

      1. Vettel gets booed at literally every Grand Prix. It is understandable at the Australian, Spanish & British Grand Prix as his biggest rivals over the years have been of those nationalities. But when neutral venues like Canada and Hungary start booing him, well that suggests he is ‘disliked’.

        In comparison Hamilton, Alonso and Kimi are cheered everywhere.

    3. I know worshipping Raikkonen is flavour of the month, but there’s got to be tons of people out there who don’t like his style, surely?

      1. I dont like his style. Decent driver but pretty much a jerk. I imagine hewould cross the road to avoid saying hi to a fan.

      2. @gwan I don’t really like him either: he’s pretty boring outside of the car and a hot-head inside of it. He’s not a very connectable person either, unlike Sebastian, Daniel or Jenson in particular (they’re always very happy and willing to talk to the media it appears which I admire).

        1. Chris (@tophercheese21)
          29th July 2013, 15:42

          @vettel1
          +1
          He’s an incredible driver with possibly the best feel for the car on the grid.
          But he doesn’t really strike me as hugely nice guy.

          I’m sure he is nice, but he looks like he gets annoyed when he sees the media.

          Mind you, I suppose I too would get sick of doing constant media appearances for years on end.

    4. Alonso is not the most loved driver either. There are some really bad moments in his F1 carreer. Personally, I can’t forget his win in Singapore 2008, the team order in Hockenheim in 2010, and, of course, his 2007 season, which was quite controversial, to put it mildly.

      I don’t think Red Bull will risk being called cheaters more than they are now. Alonso is not the driver they want, if their target is to be more popular. Kimi is a much better choice.

      1. He has also been partial to the odd brake test.

      2. RaceProUK (@)
        28th July 2013, 22:00

        You’ve picked three examples of a *team* cheating, not the driver. Maybe you’d like to find an example where the *driver* cheated?

        1. i doubt you can find a driver being so consistenly invovled in scandal issues in different teams

          Innocent?? i bet my life on it he isn;t.

    5. ‘Most disliked’, now that is rich. Have you ever heard of a wee little country called Germany? It is somewhere in Europe. Vettel is revered there and is only second to Schumacher. Perhaps, you also heard of a little country called Spain? You know who was booed there the most? One British driver who for a year drove for the same team as one Spanish driver. So it is all relative.

  17. Am I the only one who saw Vettel’s naughty grin when talking Raikkonen up and thought, “that’s because he knows Riccardo’s got it in the bag?” Could be completely wrong, but just looked like he was stirring.

    1. Aren’t Vettel and Raikkonen friends? Maybe he just really would like for Raikkonen to come over.

      1. No, you would not want a friend as a team mate in a competitive car . That’s the last thing you’d want . It ruins your friendship .

        1. It ruins your friendship .

          it only applies to lewis and fernando.

          Kimi wouldn’t give much effort in creating rivalry. he raced and go home…thats it.

          1. I agree – Kimi wouldn’t care about any of the BS that takes place off the track.

            Besides; Seb already said he would prefer Kimi over Nando if that was the choice.

            It would be interesting to see if their mutual respect would last a full season but the racing would certainly be hard.

        2. As both of them stated many times, they are not friends off track, but obviously have a certain degree of mutual respect for each other.

    2. Neither of them are drama queens, which eliminates the chance of friction and all that BS, there will be competition but you won’t hear any of Mark Webber’s subtle under the belt media jabs

      1. Are you serious about that? Kimi sure isn’t because he doesn’t put effort in creating rivalries, as a previous poster said, but think about all the times when things didn’t go according to Vettel’s plans and how he reacted. Yes, he is all smiling around when things go well for him, but what he does when they don’t… that’s another story.

        1. @alexx_88 When did Seb ever talk ** about Mark or make all these under-handed remarks Mark is always making, the way he talks to the media and doesn’t acknowledge Seb (calls him the other car), at Silverstone he referred to him as Michael when talking to Alonso in the pre-podium room, etc.. meanwhile i never heard Seb doing anything of the sort, always says that he respects Mark and doesn’t bad mouth him.

          but think about all the times when things didn’t go according to Vettel’s plans and how he reacted

          I’d be happy if you can give me an example because i can’t recall anything at the moment.

          1. Just type Vettel radio compilation in youtube .. you will find plenty

          2. For me it’s obvious that those comments are the way Mark chose to vent his frustration. Some of it from the team’s preference of Vettel, some from Vettel’s own attitude during racing and a part from its own inability to pose a serious challenge to his teammate.

            However, just remember the comments Vettel made from the cockpit, in Malaysia. If you didn’t hear the tone of “Get him out of my way, he is too slow.” then I can’t add anything else. Also, remember last year Malaysia, he was pretty rough on Karthikeyan, even though the crash was Vettel’s fault. You can see that these moments start to appear whenever he is not in a dominant position, as it has been over the last few years.

            Personally, I can imagine Vettel not being quite the smiley face if he gets a new teammate next year and starts to lose out to him. In the end is hard to draw a line where legitimate complaining stops and whining starts.

  18. I will never blame Alonso if he wants to leave and did leave. Ferrari have let him down over and over again. Even if its just rumours it says to Ferrari “sort this sorry mess out”. However it be class to see Vettel and Alonso in the same team. My money would be on Alonso.

    1. I would be interrested too :)
      I would bet on Fernando but Seb knows his car very well and it would be though times for him

      1. Yeah I agree with you Seb knows that team inside out, but Alonso isn’t afraid of squabbles and politics. IF he did leave where would it leave Ferrari?

        1. It might be a blessing for Ferrari. I think Alonso’s ability to drive round the deficiencies of a car has kept Ferrari looking better than they actually are. If they partnered Massa with someone who needs a car to set-up a certain way, like a Button for example, than heads may be chopped and Ferrari may just recruit the personnel required to make the most of the fortunes spent on their F1 car.

      2. I agree with you that Seb knows his car and team inside out. However Alonso doesn’t mind squabbling and arguing. Are Red Bull daring enough to do it? IF Alonso left Ferrari where does it leave Ferrari?

    2. At least in the first year I think Seb would take it because he’d have the immediate advantage of knowing the team. After that it really just depends on the competitiveness of the team and drivers: if the car is up front Vettel will win I would think because he qualifies much better and needn’t worry about racing too much but if it turned out to be midfield I think Alonso would have a slight advantage in that he is still a better racer. Vettel is still young and improving though it is worth bearing in mind whereas Alonso will have plateaued.

  19. I think that Alonso might really want to leave Ferrari. He might tell the world as often as he wants what an awesome team it is and how much a title with Ferrari would mean to him. If he reckons that Ferrari’s chances to win titles during the upcoming years are slim, he certainly wants to move on to win the DWC with RBR, Mercedes, Marussia, Lego or whichever squad has the quickest car. The question is: Can Red Bull resist the temptation to take the chance to humiliate Ferrari and get one of the best driver line-ups that F1 has ever seen, knowing all the dangers that it would bring?

  20. Not going to happen, Vettel is fine with Kimi because he thinks he can beat him but he’s not going to team up with his main rival of the last 3 years.

    1. yea, i bet he can really beat kimi easily ROFL

      just like how he stucked behind Kimi with fresh tire

    2. @force-maikel Obviously Seb thinks he can beat either of them. Just like both of them think they can beat each other and Seb. And all it is, is just what they have to believe to be where they are.

      In reality I think they would be fairly well matched because each of their styles have pros and cons. However, I don’t either Kimi or Fernando walking right into Red Bull and start beating Seb. Do you honestly think he could walk right into Lotus and beat Kimi?

  21. Time for Ferrari to cut their ties with this qualifying donkey. Bring in Hülkenberg whilst they wait for Vettel. Time to Rebuild!! Time for the power donkeys Alonso, Fry, Domenicali and Massa to leave.

    1. So the best all round race driver is a donkey?

      1. No he isn’t the all round racer. He’s currently behind Kimi, Lewis and Seb, look at him today and just yesterday he proclaimed “Ferrari are back” If that’s back I feel bad for Ferrari. btw, I called him a “qualifying donkey” because simply that’s what he is. that’s a fact. When was his last pole?…..And don’t blame the car like he always doe’s. He’s a scrub past his prime as Qualifying is so important now.

        1. look at 2010, 2012, 2006, 2005 or basically any race he has been in. one of the best drivers ever and nothing to add. if he has had a few slightly worse races (still better than his teammates) it doesn’t mean he has become worse driver or others have suddenly improved.

          1. I remember in 2006 when Fernando won a championship. Long time between titles for the best all round driver.

          2. Schumacher was considered the most complete driver in the 90s, yet didn’t win a title between 1995 and 2000. I guess Hill, Villeneuve and Hakkinen each too short turns of being the most complete driver on the grid.

        2. Would Vettel and Hamilton have taken pole in this Ferrari, dont get me wrong Sebastian and Lewis ate better qualifiers but would they have taken pole in this Ferrari? No. A scrub I dont think so.

          1. Lewis might have. And I’m not a fan, but that boy does put his money where him mouth at during qualifying.

      2. I know massa is good but to call him best driver? jk ofc :) on the topic- people have expressed some really interesting opinions here. I think vettel has a vote on this and I doubt he would want alonso as his teammate. obviously other people will also have vote but I think they will choose either kimi or ricciardo

    2. Umar Farooq Khawaja
      28th July 2013, 22:18

      Alonso managed to lose the DWC by 3 points last year with a car that was 1.5 to 2 seconds slower than pole for most of the year. How anybody can call him a “qualifying donkey” is beyond me. I expect a driver to maximize their points haul for each race and points are handed out after the race, not after qualifying. There is zero sense in qualifying at the top of the field only to go backwards in the race. Massa is no slouch and Alonso is way, way faster than Massa on most days. It is a pity that you can’t appreciate Alonso’s talent, for whatever reason.

      1. RaceProUK (@)
        28th July 2013, 22:23

        It’s the same logic that leads people to accuse Red Bull of conspiring against Webber. They simply can’t accept that someone is really good, so they latch onto the most ridiculous ideas as some sort of justification for their hate.

        1. Exactly I’m sick of those conspiracy theories as well!

        2. The thing with Webber is that his performance has fallen off the cliff at one exact point in time. Just around the Silverstone GP. The seasons before that he was right up there with Vettel. Both fighting for poles and race wins. After that race Webber pretty much vanished and Vettel seems to be almost racing alone.

          There is good cause why people have conspiracies over that.

          Especially since we know how Schumacher used to hold back his team mates. So its not even like it’s something new. The second driver gets less telemetry access, less setup acces, no say in car development, new parts come later, he gets lesser mechanics. It’s not so much a concerted effort or “conspiracy” to make the #2 driver look bad, it is a focus on the #1 driver which in the end does cost the other.

          1. @patrickl – Such conspiracies come about because people simplistically look at Monaco/Spain/2010 standings for some of the year, and assume that he’s “up there with Vettel”, when Vettel had numerous car failures from the lead, costing him the chance to be further ahead of Webber, like he has been ever since.

          2. @david-a I think after malaysia , They ensure that webber comes nowhere near vettel . But they also make sure he gets some points in every race . RBR play a smart game . How come KERS is always an issue with webber . Can KERS systems be controlled from the pit lane ? It can be discreetly done without anyone knowing what happens . Personally I don’t believe that webber falls off the cliff after such a strong outing in Malaysia. If you say it has happened every season( look at his williams season ,was it consistent ?) , then that is also a worrying thing as RBR have been playing this for longer than we know . Ok, why does Webber not leave earlier , He dooes not know about it, perhaps . I know you would say this is assumed conjecture , but yeah It can happen . After all RBR are smarter than Ferrari .

          3. @hamilfan – Kers has been an issue for Webber, like twice this season. Vettel had his own issues with it in Germany. COTD from a few days ago even pointed out the number of car problems both RBR drivers have had, which is pretty similar.

            So I’m afraid that the conspiracies are just bad attempts at excuses. The real issue is that RBR have unreliability issues, and for both cars, on a more regular basis than some other teams.

          4. Oh come on. Webber almost always has a poorly working car. At the very least his KERS never seems to work and the clutch is never properly setup for the start.

            It’s not about the complete car failures. Indeed both drivers have had their share of engine related failures,but that’s pretty much beyond the team’s control.

            It’s not just that Webber and Vettel were on equal standings. They were fighting for poles together and fighting for the win together. The gap between them has grown massively almost overnight.

          5. @patrickl

            Oh come on. Webber almost always has a poorly working car. At the very least his KERS never seems to work and the clutch is never properly setup for the start.

            Having the occasional issue doesn’t merit a claim that it never works. Also, I doubt the car is to blame for the majority of bad starts Webber has had. It was after being advised to hold the throttle if he got wheelspin that he actually made a good one in Germany.

            It’s not about the complete car failures. Indeed both drivers have had their share of engine related failures,but that’s pretty much beyond the team’s control.

            Yes, but what makes Webber’s so-called issues worthy of being “conspiracies”?

            It’s not just that Webber and Vettel were on equal standings. They were fighting for poles together and fighting for the win together. The gap between them has grown massively almost overnight.

            Vettel outqualified him 15-2 in 2009, and had double the poles in 2010. In addition, I don’t seem to remember Webber “fighting for the win” in those races that Vettel had unreliability from the lead (crashing in Australia, 8th in Bahrain). The gap between the two in 2010 did only appear close between Vettel and Webber because of Vettel’s errors, and Vettel’s far higher unreliability. Not to mention that Vettel was what, 22 at the start of 2010?

            Again, people seem to look at Webber’s good 3-race patch in 2010 and can’t seem to let it go.

          6. It’s not an occasional problem. His KERS works less often than it does.

            Vettel doesn’t have higher unreliability. Vettel’s fails were more visible perhaps, but not more often. Webber also suffered through team calls favoring Vettel. For instance, Webber could have won in Australia 2010, but they made him hold station behind Vettel and then wait another lap for his pitstop. Throwing him back to P10 or something.

            Webber has always been hindered by the teams favor on Vettel, but it HAS gotten much much worse since Silverstone. There really is no escaping that.

          7. @patrickl – His KERS issues are exaggerated. Saying it “works less often than it does”, is an example of that.

            In 2010 (when they were “close”) Vettel did have higher unreliability which certainly held him back. Since that, Vettel hasn’t necessarily had more unreliability than Webber, and that is a major part of why he is now able to show that he is further ahead.

            And Webber hasn’t always been hindered- Hungary 2010 for instance, where Webber basically inherited the win after Vettel was asked to back up the field under the safety car. Even in Australia, the team had the same strategy for the pair, but Vettel once again, was on course to win, while Webber dropped down the order, then crashed.

      2. Alonso is talented, but when was the F2012 ever 2 seconds off the fropntrunning pace?

        1. Austrailia. They were 1.5s off.

          1. No, they were 1 second off in Australia. Unless you are going to compare Alonso’s Q2 time to Hamilton’s Q3 time, which would make zero sense to do. And incidentally, the RBs were seven tenths off the pace in quali in Australia.

          2. @beejis60 – 1.5 seconds off if you compare Alonso’s fastest Q2 time with Hamilton’s fastest Q3 time, which is not a fair comparison- Alonso spun off before the end of the session, and they always go faster in Q3.

      3. God almighty, give me strength ……

        Alonso’s car was “not 1.5 to 2 seconds slower than pole for most of the year.” People are entitled to their own opinions. They are not entitled to make up fake “facts” though.

        At the rate this particular myth keeps growing, I expect to be reading sometime next year that “Alonso’s’ 2012 car was 15 to 20 seconds off the pole pace”.

        1. Hey, Alonso was the one who was saying he was 1.5s off the pace in Aussieville… I figured he ought to know the stats better than myself.

          1. Okay, but that was most likely an approximation, and one that only holds true if you assume that he couldn’t have gone faster if he didn’t make an error in Q2.

          2. Hamilton was telling us how shockingly bad his car was in Germany, right before he took pole position. He then told us how shockingly bad his car was in Hungary, right before talking pole and the win.

            It’s generally not a wise move to base your opinions on something a driver said about his car. Believe it or not, they’ve been known to tell some outrageous lies on that particular subject.

          3. Hamilton was talking about race pace though and he have poor pace on the long runs.

      4. Alonso managed to lose the [championship] by 3 points last year with a car that was 1.5 to 2 seconds slower than pole for most of the year.

        Even when the Ferrari was at its worst its performance deficit was nothing like as big as that, and for most of the year it was far less, as explained here:

        http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/07/16/red-bull-to-run-ricciardo-at-young-drivers-test/#comment-1303220

        1. Nathan (@il-ferrarista)
          29th July 2013, 2:36

          +1

        2. +1 @keithcollantine Thanks for the clarification. It was Alonso for the PR stunt who kept on claiming that the car was slow.but otherwise the Ferrari caught up pretty well.

          In fact the fastest car in 2012 was McLaren who with great dedication managed to squander their chances.

          1. @tmax, Yeah the have the impeccable perfection to shoot themselves in the foot at the precise time

        3. BJ (@beejis60)
          29th July 2013, 3:51

          Again, I’m just repeating what I’ve read and heard in interviews. If you want to nitpick over a half of a second and who knows more stats, by all means go for it. I’ll just try to remember to stay away when lap times are involved…

          1. @beejis60 I’m not “nitpicking over half a second”: You’re claiming Alonso’s car’s performance deficit last year was three to four times greater than it actually was – a huge exaggeration – without bothering to consider the facts.

          2. @beejis60 that is precisely why you do not pay such close attention to media interviews: obviously things are going to be exaggerated and misconstrued. It’s better to argue with the facts and the facts are that the Ferrari was actually fairly close to the Red Bull throughout the season and the McLaren was the quickest car on outright pace.

            The rest is slightly subjective, but it appears on race pace the Ferrari was stronger than in qualifying so even the statistics based purely on lapttime have some leeway. I for one would argue based on the constructors championship the Ferrari was faster than the Lotus.

      5. More like Red Bull and others decided to make it more exiting. It would have been a miracle if Alonso won 2012. And a Cinderella story if Hamilton did manage to come back after having a car that was supposed to win.

        1. @keithcollatine: I said only in Austrailia; that other dude said all season.
          @vettel1: Why bother with commenting on any of these stories then if they’re all exaggerated?

          1. @beejis60 where have I said all stories are exaggerated? I said interview comments are usually exaggerated along with driver’s comments which is evidently accurate (by the case you have highlighted). All I’m saying is that you consequently cannot take them as factual.

            The reason I comment is because I enjoy seeing other people’s perspective on things and to comment on developments and possible future developments in the sport. Also, I think it is important to make a distinction between fact and opinion which some people fail to recognise.

  22. I want to see this, simply because I’m sick of Ferrari not living up to their potential. The days when McLaren and Ferrari ruled the roost are long gone. Neither seem to be able to put a complete year together any more, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see it drive Alonso away.

    I wonder though, if these rumours aren’t true, and Kimi ends up with the RBR seat, then will Lotus go for Alonso, knowing that he could well be unhappy with Ferrari? Obviously Alonso may want to see how teams fare with the new regs, but if Ferrari continue with their lack lustre performance, maybe he will move back to the Enstone team.

    1. Umar Farooq Khawaja
      28th July 2013, 22:39

      Personally, I doubt this news/rumor. Let’s not forget how Alonso ended up with the Ferrari seat. Obviously, part of it was that Ferrari wanted him, but there was also Santander. They paid Raikkonen $40-odd million to vacate the seat a year early and there’s no indication that Raikkonen was not keeping his end of the deal. I seem to remember he was dragging the car around by the scruff of its neck, which became quite obvious after Massa got injured. The point I am trying to make is that there’s a lot of money riding on the relationship between Ferrari/Santander/Alonso.

      1. In for Santander Infiniti Red Bull Racing…

      2. Who knows, there might be a performance clause in Alonso’s contract.

      3. Unlike certain CEO who sold Ferrari soul for money to Santander, Mr. Red Bull does not need such hand-outs.

  23. Valued Customer
    28th July 2013, 22:02

    What if we got it all wrong?
    Maybe Ferrari are sending Alonso to get info from RBR?

    Remeber Ferrari would pay anything to have 1st hadn info on the design and works of a Red Bull F1!

    1. Maybe Perez and Button are e-mailing an anonymous Red Bull engineer instead.

      (What’s that? Baseless speculation is unfair?)

  24. Italian Rai is already giving it as a done deal to be announced around Monza.

  25. In short this is a payback from Horner to Domenicalli and Luca for last year. Same time last year they Ferrari tried to disrupt the RBR balance by starting the Vettel to Maranello rumour. Vettel even spoke about it after wimming the WDC at Brazil. Now it is is time for Horner to give that back to Ferrari during the summer break. He does not miss such good chances that falls into his lap !!!!!!

    Dietrich must be loving this…….. in a race which Lewis won….the positive talk of the Town is RBR for some totally different reason…

  26. Alonso will never race alongside Vettel. He vetoed a potential Vettel move to Ferrari.

    Ferrari were strong again on the weekend, Alonso was not.

    I can’t see Kimi getting the Red Bull seat either given his age, inconsistency throughout his career, never lit the world on fire as a qualifier, and has trouble as it is putting Grosjean away.

    In all probability Kimi will perform slightly better than Ricciardo, but there’s no upside with Kimi.

    1. Now just glancing over Kimi’s F1 Career results on wiki, make me absolutely certain you are talking out of you behind. This opinion is reinforced by the actually fan following he had through out his career and now.

      It seems you are on an extreme side of the spectre when it come to forming an accurate opinion about a driver.

      1. I’m not saying he’s a weak driver, just not in the same class as Vettel or Hamilton.

        He had a Newey McLaren from 2002-2006, jumped into Schumacher’s seat at Ferrari in 2007, Massa basically matched him straight away and beat him in 2008 and 2009 up until the accident. None of the top teams wanted him, gets thrown a lifeline by Lotus and by sheer good timing he arrives at Lotus/Renault as they are put together a fast, really reliable car. Now he’s got a great car and not exactly converting on Saturday or Sunday. Kimi’s Saturday performances are killing Lotus.

        As for inconsistency, he came to Ferrari as the highest paid driver in the sport and Massa matched him for pace in 2007 (Massa had worse reliability so was out of the championship hunt).

        To me his stand out year was 2005, where he was let down by reliability and bad luck. 2003 was solid but he didn’t deserve to be in the championship hunt with only one win throughout the season.

        Even this year (and last), there are races where he goes missing or Grosjean matches him for pace. Makes it hard to beat someone as fast and consistent as Vettel when you don’t beat Grosjean.

        I see Raikkonen as one of the great underachievers, who had so many great cars in great teams with every resource at his disposal.

        1. Massa was nowhere near Raikkonen in 2007 and Raikkonen was way ahead of Massa before the messed him up with the new spec Ferrari. It worked for Massa and not for Raikkonen. When they switched back Raikkonen was faster than Massa again.

          Problem was that Raikkonen was so far behind that he started taking too many risks. In hindsight he could have won Spa 2008 if he just let Hamilton go, but from his perspective at the time he “had” to beat Hamilton to win the title.

    2. Nathan (@il-ferrarista)
      29th July 2013, 9:11

      Out of many things to criticize in your post, the claim that takes the cake. Just take a little look at this quali lap at Monaco 2005, simply one of the most amazing laps at Monaco ever; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMc8qy6U1o0.
      Anyways his qualifyings at McLaren were mostly pretty good, all from 2002 to 2006. He bet Coulthard any day, anywhere.

      Howewer, I agree with you that he was more or less much less raw at Ferrari, during saturdays _and_ sundays, therefore Massa was able to match and occasionally beat him. Really, an average Kimi is a very average driver, a Kimi on good form is stellar. And yes, during his Mclaren and Ferrari years he was much less consistent, many people do not remember this nowadays.

      1. Nathan (@il-ferrarista)
        29th July 2013, 13:30

        **edit: …the claim that “never lit the world on fire as a qualifier” takes the cake.

  27. Asked if he would like Alonso as a team mate next year Vettel said: “I’d prefer Kimi [Raikkonen]!”

    “Nothing against Fernando, I really respect him a lot as a driver but I think I respect Kimi on-track, off-track, because he’s always been very straight with me and from that point of view it might be a bit easier.”

    Reading through all the comments no one has mentioned anything about this little insight into Vettel’s thoughts. I suggests that Fernando hasn’t always been honest and up front with Vettel off track. Which isn’t a surprise, but what is a surprise, is that he thinks Kimi is different.

    1. I wonder you find that a surprise? While Kimi is doing his best to avoid the media he has always spoken his mind while he has never been bitching about anybody off track. I think Seb’s comment is a nice piece of insight.

  28. I changed my mind. I think Alonso has to retire at the end of this year. Ferrari doesn’t deserve him.
    We should rename this team to smth like “Red-Face Chatterboxes”. All they do now is talk-talk-talk.

    If S. Ballmer was the CEO of Ferrari he would probably tell everyone “Terrible…Terrible…Terrible…Terrible…Terrible”.
    Alonso is wasting his time. There isn’t a single team that could hire him. The only right thing they can do is to fully discard their chances this year and try to develop a great next gen. car.
    If they try to fight I believe they will endanger not only 2014 season, but also 2015/16.

    1. Oh, I hate SF. Always did, always will.

      1. Nathan (@il-ferrarista)
        29th July 2013, 9:52

        Just wondering, why exactly? :)

    2. What? The Ferrari were the strongest car up until about Silverstone. Alonso’s poor showing at Monaco was related to him not the car. The Ferrari is still a great car right now.

      1. Strongest car if you don’t count Red Bull and on most of the races Mercedes and Lotus?

  29. Steph (@stephanief1990)
    29th July 2013, 16:10

    This surpasses even the “Massa will be replaced by Sutil” rumour which floated around last season for absurdity. He has a (very long) contract and there are 2 strong candidates for the RBR drive already. So many F1 stories are 100% fantasy 0% based in fact. Watch him sign for them now.

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