Who’s winning the battle of the team mates halfway through 2013?

2013 F1 season

Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, Sepang, 2013At the halfway point in the season the balance of power in each of the teams has become clear.

Five drivers have asserted clear superiority over their team mates so far this season. But the fight for supremacy at other teams is much tighter.

Here’s how each pair of team mates compares so far this season.

Too close to call

At Force India, Williams and Toro Rosso there’s very little to choose between the two drivers.

The contest is especially close at Force India, where 2011 team mates Paul di Resta and Adrian Sutil have been reunited. Di Resta has the all-important edge on points at the moment, but Sutil’s misfortunes earlier in the season have tipped the balance somewhat.

Valtteri Bottas is doing a particularly impressive job at Williams and is narrowly ahead of Pastor Maldonado in qualifying. Maldonado has scored the team’s only point so far this year.

Of the two Toro Rosso drivers it’s Daniel Ricciardo in contention for the Red Bull drive despite Jean-Eric Vergne having scored more points (in a less reliable car). Ricciardo is clearly ahead in qualifying but the pair are more closely matched on race results.

Force India: Paul di Resta vs Adrian Sutil

Williams: Pastor Maldonado vs Valtteri Bottas

Toro Rosso: Jean-Eric Vergne vs Daniel Ricciardo

Not much in it

Sergio Perez, McLaren, Silverstone, 2013Sergio Perez is doing a decent job staying on terms with Jenson Button at McLaren and the pair have had some spicy battles on the track. However it’s Button who’s delivering the most where it matters in terms of points.

At Mercedes Lewis Hamilton has the edge on all four measures but Nico Rosberg has had three race-ending car failures. Rosberg also has two wins to Hamilton’s one.

Rookie Giedo van der Garde is unsurprisingly losing out to the slightly more experienced Charles Pic but he has had some good performances, notably the last round in Hungary.

McLaren: Jenson Button vs Sergio Perez

Mercedes: Nico Rosberg vs Lewis Hamilton

Caterham: Charles Pic vs Giedo van der Garde

We have a winner

Kimi Raikkonen, Lotus, Nurburgring, 2013Sebastian Vettel, Nico Hulkenberg and Jules Bianchi have out-qualified their team mates at every race this year (though Bianchi was sidelined with a technical problem during qualifying in Monaco).

Vettel is yet to finish a race behind his team mate as well, though that was a matter of considerable controversy in Malaysia.

Fernando Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen are also enjoying comfortable superiority over their team mates. Felipe Massa began the season well – after Malaysia he’d out-qualified Alonso for four races in a row – but has slipped since then.

At Lotus Romain Grosjean has upped his game in recent races though at Silverstone and the Nurburgring he was ordered to let Raikkonen pass him.

Red Bull: Sebastian Vettel vs Mark Webber

Ferrari: Fernando Alonso vs Felipe Massa

Lotus: Kimi Raikkonen vs Romain Grosjean

Sauber: Nico Hulkenberg vs Esteban Gutierrez

Marussia: Jules Bianchi vs Max Chilton

Notes on the data

  • Qualified ahead: Which driver qualified ahead in sessions where both drivers set times
  • Finished ahead: Which driver finished ahead in race where both drivers were classified
  • Laps spent ahead: Which driver was ahead during laps when both were on the track
  • Team points: Proportion of total team points scored (where applicable)

To take a closer look at how each driver has performed relative to their team mate during 2013, see the driver form guides:

Over to you

Which drivers have impressed you most compared to their team mates this year? And who do you think will come back stronger in the season half of the season?

Have your say in the comments.

2013 F1 season


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Images © Red Bull/Getty, McLaren/Hoch Zwei, Lotus/LAT

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127 comments on Who’s winning the battle of the team mates halfway through 2013?

  1. That’s pretty crushing superiority from Vettel and Hülkenberg in particular, very much so Räikkönen and Alonso also. Since Webber’s duly leaving, perhaps it’s time for Massa to follow suit and for Räikkönen and Hülkenberg to have a trade-up?

    • Multi 21, Seb :-p

      • Jon (@jons) said on 9th August 2013, 15:58

        Wasn’t the Multi21 team order intended to help Webber win the race ?
        Why does everybody try to use it as a proof of the team benefiting Vettel when it is not ?

      • @gdewilde all the more to highlight Vettel’s superiority :P

      • Nigelstash (@nigelstash) said on 9th August 2013, 20:21

        Brazil GP 2013. Hamilton ahead of Vettel on points. Vettel needs a win for the title. Webber overtakes him with 5 laps to go and refuses to yield. Webber wins his final race. Ham wins the title. And I get to be a fly on the wall in the Red Bull pit afterwards.
        Multi 12 Mark! Multi 12!

        • @nigelstash Red Bull will be a bit sterner in that instance – I think they’d be making threats on Webber’s salary if that were the case :P

          I’d like to hope he’d do the honourable thing in that situation though and let Vettel win, as I’m sure Vettel would do if the situation was reversed.

          • JP (@jonathanproc) said on 10th August 2013, 0:21

            @vettel1 Brazil 2013 will be Webber’s last race, I doubt they can do much to his salary at the point. I also highly doubt he’d give a win away in his final ever F1 race to be honest!

          • @jonathanproc maybe they pay them at the end of the season? :P

            If all else fails though, they could just employ a sniper and shout out his tyres ;)

          • *shoot

          • JP (@jonathanproc) said on 10th August 2013, 0:41

            @vettel1 I really don’t think they get payed on a yearly basis. Plus a huge legal battle would ensue no doubt if they refused to pay him. Also the majority of the Red Bull driver’s salary is based on performance, so he’ll technically be entitled to more money for not letting Vettel pass and winning the race himself.

            I assume it’d be worth it though even if they did somehow reduce his wages.

          • @jonathanproc I guess it is all entirely dependant on all his contract clauses and the way in which Red Bull’s drivers are payed in terms of bonuses and basic rates (Kimi for example likes his on a race-by-race basis I do believe).

            Anyway, that’s besides the real point in that I think Red Bull would find some way of forcing him into holding station, although I’d hope it weren’t necessary (I don’t think he’s so selfish as to deny the team a world championship for his own fulfilment)!

            Speaking of hypothetical last race situations though, wouldn’t it be fantastic if Vettel would have a sufficient points tally with a second to win the title but was running first in front of Webber if he were to “make a mistake”? Just as a little reimbursement for Malaysia (not that he needs to though)!

  2. Thomas (@infi24r) said on 9th August 2013, 13:42

    To be fair on Webber he has had by far the high majority of the bad luck this year. 20% failure to secure a wheel rate is just absurd.

  3. I observe Hulk vs Gutierrez and 2 things spring to my mind:
    – Gutierrez is the first “not impressive” Sauber boy in years
    Hulkenberg is ready for a better car (again) but I just hope the big teams don’t start with the chitchat of “he’s too young and inexperienced”

    • Enigma (@enigma) said on 9th August 2013, 14:30

      @omarr-pepper Too young and inexperienced? The exact opposite was probably the reason Hulkenberg didn’t get the McLaren seat for this year. Whitmarsh seemed to think Perez had more potential and room for improvement.

      • hunocsi (@hunocsi) said on 9th August 2013, 14:52

        I rather think Whitmarsh seemed to think Perez and his Mexican sponsors would come handy when Vodafone’s contract runs at the end of this year.

        • Deej92 (@deej92) said on 9th August 2013, 16:20

          I can’t see Telmex or Claro replacing Vodafone, rather just being regular sponsors. I’d imagine the title sponsor being a global brand, like Vodafone. Please feel welcome to return here and slaughter me if I am proved wrong when it is announced. I do genuinely think Perez was hired more for his talent than sponsorship money.

      • @enigma did you even take a minute to read what I said? I said teams (Ferrari I mean especially) sometimes don’t take the risk to get a good driver a Perez the chance to go up, McLaren saw the missed chance and hired him. But I hope something similar doesn’t happen to Hulk, who needs a good seat, and to be honest the top teams have the things fixed for next year (I mean, Red Bull is not counting Hulk as an option, and let’s see what Ferrari does, because Massa’s contract seems endless).

        • Tomcat173 (@tomcat173) said on 10th August 2013, 2:03

          @omarr-pepper i agree with the sentiment about Hulk. If Mr Montezemolo had some sense he’d replace Massa with Hulkenberg – he’s clearly got some potential. There really isnt anyone better thats available. It’d be a no brainer for Hulk to step up into a top team, even if he’s a number 2 to Alonso.

  4. Dphect (@dphect) said on 9th August 2013, 14:14

    This certainly show’s interesting evidence that some top teams support their number 1 driver over their number 2, that is even more evident when compared to the teams who support both drivers equally.

    • Ben (@scuderia29) said on 9th August 2013, 14:43

      is there really evidence of that in the side-by-side? or is there just a distinct difference in driving ability and thats why those drivers are considered #1 in the team

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 9th August 2013, 14:47

      @dphect

      This certainly show’s interesting evidence that some top teams support their number 1 driver over their number 2

      No it doesn’t, that’s a classic “post hoc” fallacy. The selectiveness of this reasoning is made quite clear by the fact you’ve singled out “some top teams” and excluded others from it.

      For proof of one team favouring a particular driver, look for him consistently getting better equipment or preferential strategies. Look for his team mate being told to move over and let him win or pretend he has a gearbox fault so his team mate can move forward on the grid.

      But don’t just assume that because one driver is comfortably beating his team mate it has to be because he gets preferential treatment. It may be the case for some but it won’t be for all.

      • Dphect (@dphect) said on 9th August 2013, 16:14

        @keithcollantine Maybe I should call it favoritism then? Maybe I’ve got a little bit “Magical Thinking” gumf. Really, it’s just a small observation on my part and maybe a little shortsighted. To clarify though, I’ve excluded other “top teams” from being labeled as such because they obviously aren’t supporting one driver over another as consistently, that’s the comparison I’m making Keith. Also I’m not “just assuming”, I’m using evidence of things I’ve observed in the races and articles I have read, and I know it’s not a case for all teams that’s why I said some teams. Now if I had all the information that you possibly have, my opinion may be different, but I don’t have access to that – so this is it.

        So some top teams, such like Redbull, with an example of last season is with Webber having his front wing taken off his car because Seb damaged his own, even with the Malaysia malarky Seb only got a tiny wrist slap for ignoring team orders – if it was the other way round, Webber would of likely received a more severe punishment because Mark isn’t Helmut Marko’s golden child.

        And Ferrari, who at least don’t try and hide nor deny who their number one is. So do I really need to give examples?

        We’ve only seen a slight inclination of this at Lotus though, mainly with Grosjean being asked to let Kimi past once or twice so far this season, rather than fight him. But Kimi’s skills and experience are many times of what Gros has. I do very vaguely remember Kimi getting upgrades before Gros, but this may of been down to the drivers personal taste of the upgrade being beneficial to their driving style. But in this comparison I do believe the difference is down to Kimi being leaps and bounds ahead of Gros.

        @scuderia29 We’ve seen Massas pre-accident driving ability to be on par with some of the best and we also had some glimpses of that later on last season. But for car development I’d imagine they dev it to ALO’s driving style rather than Massas, which you could argue will be holding Massas driving style back.

        • Metallion (@metallion) said on 9th August 2013, 16:30

          This article just shows stats, it gives no evidence towards driver favoritism inside a team. In your reply you’re using evidence to back your claim that some teams support their nr 1 driver over the other. Without that evidence, how could you use the stats in this article to prove any favoritism? You can’t.

          • Dphect (@dphect) said on 9th August 2013, 16:57

            @metallion Aye, you’re right the article shows stats, well done! I’ve noticed that alongside these stats and using other on track observations outside of this article that there seems to be favoritism of a driver within some teams.

            So I’m not only using the stats in this article for my own opinion, which I did explain above.

        • with the Malaysia malarky Seb only got a tiny wrist slap for ignoring team orders – if it was the other way round, Webber would of likely received a more severe punishment because Mark isn’t Helmut Marko’s golden child.

          Considerable numbers of F1 fans know essentially nothing about the sport they allegedly follow, and that remark is Exhibit A. Mark Webber has repeatedly ignored team orders at Red Bull, and has never received the slightest punishment for doing so. You get bonus points for the clownish “golden child” sneer.

          • Dphect (@dphect) said on 9th August 2013, 17:04

            @jonsan Nope, I don’t recall Mark ignoring team orders to the extent that Vettel has, but maybe I missed it? Or maybe, just maybe… I’m ignorant to it? ;)

            Remind me though if you want – I haven’t got the best memory, or maybe its just selective eh!?!

          • @dphect he famously ignored them in Silverstone in 2011 and Brazil in 2012. What I find particularly hypocritical from the general public though is this: on Silverstone, 76% of people said Red Bull were wrong to impose team orders; on Malaysia 46% of people said Red Bull were right to use team orders. Even more laughably, 72% said Mercedes weren’t right to order Rosberg not to pass.

            The only possible conclusion one could draw from that is that there is a completely irrational hatred towards everything Vettel does. (For the record, I don’t think any teams should use team orders unless the driver in question has no opportunity to win the championship whereas his teammate does).

        • @dphect

          So some top teams, such like Redbull, with an example of last season is with Webber having his front wing taken off his car because Seb damaged his own, even with the Malaysia malarky Seb only got a tiny wrist slap for ignoring team orders

          We’ve only seen a slight inclination of this at Lotus though, mainly with Grosjean being asked to let Kimi past once or twice so far this season, rather than fight him. But Kimi’s skills and experience are many times of what Gros has.

          I don’t understand why you feel so differently about the two teams. The Red Bull front wing example that is constantly thrown around I don’t agree with – it is not best to think of it as subject a was Webber’s wing and b Vettel’s, rather that they were the team’s supply of wings. Since one had failed (which Vettel was completely blameless for one should stress – if he’d crashed I would have felt differently) it came down to a decision as to who should run it (don’t think of it as the decision was whether to take it from Webber or not) and it would therefore have made logical sense to give it to the faster driver who was in the lead of the championship at that time – Sebastian Vettel. Webber just blows things out of proportion, which is quite ironic given his twitter name. So really that is absolutely no different to what you say here:

          I do very vaguely remember Kimi getting upgrades before Gros, but this may of been down to the drivers personal taste of the upgrade being beneficial to their driving style.

          Back on team orders, you said yourself Grosjean has been asked to get out of the way of Räikkönen on “two” occasions this season. It was Vettel who was asked to hold station behind Webber in Malaysia, when undoubtably Vettel had the greatest chance of winning the championship. So if anything, would that not imply it was Lotus who were “worse” for favouring their top driver?

          On the gap between drivers, actually Vettel is beating Webber more conclusively than Räikkönen is beating Grosjean besides in total points scored (bearing in mind Vettel has retired from the lead of a race this season).

          Basically to conclude, I really don’t think it’s a fair assessment at all to say Red Bull are blatantly favouring Vettel, nor do I exactly think the same of Lotus (but it is certainly more prominent than at Red Bull, however slight).

          • Dphect (@dphect) said on 9th August 2013, 17:15

            @vettel1

            I don’t understand why you feel so differently about the two teams. The Red Bull front wing example that is constantly thrown around I don’t agree with – it is not best to think of it as subject a was Webber’s wing and b Vettel’s, rather that they were the team’s supply of wings. Since one had failed (which Vettel was completely blameless for one should stress – if he’d crashed I would have felt differently) it came down to a decision as to who should run it (don’t think of it as the decision was whether to take it from Webber or not) and it would therefore have made logical sense to give it to the faster driver who was in the lead of the championship at that time – Sebastian Vettel. Webber just blows things out of proportion, which is quite ironic given his twitter name. So really that is absolutely no different to what you say here:

            Aye, fair enough I see your point. I can’t fully recall at which stage in the season that happened or how it was damaged so I could be a little misinformed on that example. I’ve got a shocking memory on details like that.

            I’m not saying they are at the same skill level, Vettel is definitely the better driver of the two. So it is obviously makes sense to ensure he has everything he needs to get the team the most points. But going from the media coverage I’ve seen and read, Helmut isn’t massively keen on Webber and thinks the sun shines out of Vettels behind. But what the media show isn’t always necessarily how it is, so I could be misinformed.

            I should of known making some statements involving Vettel would upset some of his fans though, sorry about that ;).

          • @dphect it’s not really much to do with Vettel, just the “conspiracy theories” surrounding Red Bull! You’re right about Marko but luckily he isn’t responsible for how the team itself operates!

          • Drezone said on 11th August 2013, 11:56

            Forget about the wing thing. That was just the cherry on top.

            Everyone forgets 2010 and how vettel won his first championship.

            Webber three poles in a row and about to win three races in a row from Spain, Monaco and then to turkey and golden spoilt child decides to panic and drive into webber after he has been demolishing his team mate and the whole world knows vettel is at fault and yet red bull and namely helmet marko blame webber.

            Pretty much from then webber was never going to win a championship and shot his confidence and vettel was given a free ticket.

            No proof was needed after that.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 13th August 2013, 3:57

            Everyone forgets 2010 and how vettel won his first championship.

            By scoring more points than anyone else?

            Webber three poles in a row and about to win three races in a row from Spain, Monaco and then to turkey and golden spoilt child decides to panic and drive into webber after he has been demolishing his team mate and the whole world knows vettel is at fault and yet red bull and namely helmet marko blame webber.

            Pretty much from then webber was never going to win a championship and shot his confidence and vettel was given a free ticket.

            LOL, Webber was never going to win the championship because he couldn’t even do so when his teammate had the majority of the mechanical issues. Vettel’s engine failures, tyre failures, brake failures and a drive through for backing the pack up for Mark gave Webber a free ticket to the 2010 title.

    • MazdaChris (@mazdachris) said on 9th August 2013, 19:09

      Only on F1Fanatic will you see someone genuinely citing a situation where RBR told Vettel NOT to overtake Webber as evidence that RBR favours Vettel. An incredible achievement in the field of doublethink.

  5. xjr15jaaag (@xjr15jaaag) said on 9th August 2013, 14:52

    I think, judging by the data, that vettel is having a better season than he did in 2011; in 2011, he was outqualified by Webber a couple of times or so.

  6. Jon (@jons) said on 9th August 2013, 16:03

    Vettel, Bianchi and Hulkenberg are really dominating their team mates.
    Beating then 10/10 in qualifying in the same car is impressive, I wonder if they can finish the season undefeated on Saturdays.

    • @jons well technically it’s 9/9 for Bianchi :P

      • PhilEReid (@philereid) said on 9th August 2013, 16:26

        @vettel1 100% would be better then? :P

        @jons It really is impressive, and it shows that both Bianchi and Hulkenburg deserve better, and that Webber has slipped whilst Vettel has continued to improve. Finishing the season undefeated seems completely realistic for Bianchi and Hulkenburg, but Webber still has a chance to pull one out of the bag from no where. It would be interesting to see if that happens though.

        • @philereid that would suffice, yes :P

          Completely agreed though that Bianchi and Hülkenberg deserve better – I absolutely think either would be far more suitable for the Ferrari seat than Massa. Since he only has a one year contract and Ferrari didn’t negotiate a new one for him until later in the Asian season last year perhaps we may finally see Massa leaving Ferrari in time to allow a new driver into the team under the new regulations?

          • PhilEReid (@philereid) said on 9th August 2013, 16:56

            @vettel1 It’s incredibly possible, and I hope it’s the case. It’d be nice to see some of the younger talent come into a top team again. That way we’d have what could be two more drivers in higher teams, and if Ricciardo gets the Red Bull seat, that’d be another younger driver (even though Vettel is still extremely young). It’d make it very interesting up at the front for the new regulations.

          • rambler said on 9th August 2013, 19:47

            Unfortunately I don’t want to see either of them being shoved out of the way for Alonso. I’d rather they wait until Alonso retires.

          • Dave (@raceprouk) said on 9th August 2013, 20:08

            Depends how they do it though – they could groom Hulk or Bianchi to assume #1 status once Alonso retires.
            Then again, this is Ferrari we’re talking about. I love ’em, but boy do they like shooting themselves in the foot :)

  7. AdrianMorse (@adrianmorse) said on 9th August 2013, 16:27

    I think Gutierrez and Webber are suffering from having a better team mate who doesn’t leave much on the table. I think especially Webber (I haven’t followed Gutierrez’s performances that closely) has performed pretty well, and often got close to his team mate, but neither could ever put in that extra bit to outqualify their team mate.

    I feel that actually Grosjean has been dominated more by Kimi than Webber has been by Vettel, and this surprises me. I had thought that with the benefit of a year’s experience, he could combine last year’s speed with some much-needed consistency. However, he has struggled with the car and the tyres on most occasions. The changed tyres seem to suit him, however, and he will need to put in a stronger second half of the season to keep his seat.

    Another driver to be dominated by his team mate is Felipe Massa, and unfortunately it does not surprise me, although their was some hope of a resurgence after some good qualifying performances early in the season. On Sundays, however, I felt he was only better than Fernando in Silverstone, in other races he was far behind.

    The team mate battle between Ricciardo and Vergne actually doesn’t look too great for Daniel, if we only look at the stats. I don’t recall much of their races, but the only time I remember Vergne being truly stronger in the race was in Canada, where Ricciardo struggled with his tyres. These stats also don’t show that on the occasions that Ricciardo outqualified Vergne, he often did so with a considerable margin, making it into Q3 with his team mate languishing at the back of Q2.

    • Michael (@freelittlebirds) said on 9th August 2013, 20:27

      It’s a real paradox for Ricciardo that Vergne beats him in the races. The only excuse would have been really bad luck but Ricciardo hasn’t had bad luck compared to, say, Hamilton or Schumacher in 2012 where the points didn’t reflect the performance.

  8. Jason (@jason12) said on 9th August 2013, 16:27

    Surprised Vergne is ahead of Ricciardo on points.

    • David-A (@david-a) said on 9th August 2013, 16:50

      Yep, it was like that last year too. Ricciardo hasn’t ever finished in the top six either, whereas Vergne did so in Canada.

    • Again, I think the reason Ricciardo is the only one in contention is because he has more natural speed – it’s harder to find speed than it is to improve your racecraft.

      • PMccarthy_is_a_legend (@pmccarthy_is_a_legend) said on 9th August 2013, 17:07

        This article just confirms what I thought of Daniel “media-hype” Ricciardo. He is good in quali and rubbish on racess. Sad thing is, no points are given on Saturday.

        • nackavich (@nackavich) said on 10th August 2013, 1:37

          @pmccarthy_is_a_legend Media hype? If you recall the first half of the season it was no such thing. It was only until his name was dropped as a possible replacement for Webber that he gained more media attention. And he’s done well under the extra pressure, even though the Toro Rosso is obviously seriously struggling on high fuel loads. Out of him and Vergne, he’s gotten the car into more points scoring positions than Vergne has, and I’d rather the media focus on someone who actually smiles and laughs in an interview and not sulk or whinges like borefest Di Resta.
          I believe Daniel deserves the attention on merit.

        • Drezone said on 11th August 2013, 12:04

          Then it’s best to put him in a good car and then see

      • RBAlonso (@rbalonso) said on 9th August 2013, 18:44

        I think you’re confusing racecraft and race pace, @vettel1. DR’s racecraft is good from what I’ve seen, he positions his car well during overtakes and rarely gets caught up in start incidents. I also don’t think natural speed is enough either. Mark Webber and Jarno Trulli were always great qualifiers, but I’d prefer to have an Alonso/Prost character of consistent podiums. Maybe Daniel’s good, Toro Rosso’s bad and Vergne is excellent, who knows? But I think for Red Bull to pick him over Raikkonen he’s going to need a couple of real results before the end of the season.

        • @rbalonso I am indeed to an extent but both are actually in favour of Vergne! Still, the same applies though: ultimate speed over one lap I’d argue is harder to come by as the other is easier to improve with experience (for example, Hamilton has always been very fast over one lap but initially wasn’t as good in the races, now he’s putting in performances like that in Hungary).

          On the ‘real results’, I think he has definitely stepped up a gear since the announcement that he was a possible candidate (I believe he was running ahead of Vergne in both Germany in Britain before Jev retired) but I agree he needs to start backing up that obvious qualifying advantage he holds over his teammate.

      • Mouse_Nightshirt (@mouse_nightshirt) said on 9th August 2013, 22:57

        You see, I’m not sure about that @vettel1 – My personal opinion, rightly or wrongly, is that JEV has had the edge on Ricciardo from the beginning. I’ve thought he was a better racer.

        Ricciardo is definitely more “get up and go” *out* of the car, and I think that’s why his name keeps getting mentioned. It’d be sort of criminal if Ricciardo got the seat and JEV loses his, but that seems likely if DR did maket the move to RBR.

        • I think his qualifying advantage will help him if he can get a front-running seat @mouse_nightshirt – for now he can’t string all the elements together in the races so far I think is his problem which wouldn’t be such a big issue starting from the front row!

          I partially agree though: Vergne has definitely been “the forgotten one” in this episode which is a shame.

          • Drezone said on 11th August 2013, 12:10

            Wouldn’t be an issue if he was in a top team or top car.

            The only reason he goes back is that he out qualifies his car and in race day under race conditions its about the race pace of the car and everyone goes back to the pecking order which is why we see a lot of riccairdo going from 7th to 12th and vergne going from 18th to 13th.

        • nackavich (@nackavich) said on 10th August 2013, 1:26

          @mouse_nightshirt
          I disagree completely. I think the pair are much more evenly matched on race day but I think that’s down to the car more than anything – it’s rubbish in the race. Canada was the one race where JEV had the upper hand but if you remember the race, Bottas held everyone up and RIC struggled with his tyres. Every other race RIC has been mostly ahead of his team mate and has been setting slightly quicker lap times (see the lap charts). The main issue is that getting into Q3 is bittersweet for RIC as it usually means a set less of tyres to play with and mixing it with the fast one or two stoppers (usually the McLarens, Force Indias and Hulk.)

          Look at Silverstone! A real racers track which is hard on the tyres, RIC destroyed VER in qualifying and in the race he was able to maintain a position in the top 8 with genuine pace until his strategy was ruined by the safety car and he lost his positions in the last few laps on very old prime tyres.
          This was also a weekend in which a lot of external pressure was placed on the Toro Rosso driver’s heads about the Red Bull seat in 2014. The driver who really rose to meet that pressure? Ricciardo.
          That’s why he’s in contention for the Red Bull seat and not Vergne.

  9. Blackmamba (@blackmamba) said on 9th August 2013, 16:29

    Chilton and Gutierrez shouldn’t be in F1! Massa has had a good run, but there comes a time when one has to say enough is enough.

  10. PMccarthy_is_a_legend (@pmccarthy_is_a_legend) said on 9th August 2013, 17:09

    I think Button should be beating Perez a bit more handily for a world champion. They are fairly matched in pace it seems. Except that Perez is going to get better, Button, well not really. It annoys the life out of me that this dude lucked in on a championship. Hes got to be the slowest world champion of all time.

    • Hairs (@hairs) said on 9th August 2013, 17:31

      This would be the same guy that was so much faster than Hamilton at one race that Hamilton had a fit and tweeted telemetry to make it look like the team was at fault?

      He’s not as fast (in the raw) as Hamilton, but then nobody is. It probably annoys him that people who could never get an F1 car around a track at all think he “lucked” into a championship, so it’s all even…

      • kbdavies (@kbdavies) said on 9th August 2013, 20:36

        What does Button being faster than Hamilton at a single race (as you put it), or indeed comparing him to Hamilton have to do with the the comment you are responding to? It is hardly an endorsment of Jenson’s supposed speed that he was faster than his team mate at “one race”.
        Funny enough, of ALL the recent WDC’s, Button is indeed the odd one out at having natural raw speed.

      • PMccarthy_is_a_legend (@pmccarthy_is_a_legend) said on 9th August 2013, 22:28

        I definitely could not get a F1 car around a race track. But then again, I am not a F1 driver nor ever wished to be one. If having experience of driving a F1 car was a basic requirement to express a view on this website then I think it is fair to say that there would be very few comments here, if any (don’t mean no disrespect dude, simply putting you back in your place, cheers) We do agree on one thing: Button is not as fast as Hamilton (or half of the grid). @hairs

    • Lucked into a championship? How exactly.

    • TMF (@tmf42) said on 10th August 2013, 7:17

      Lucked into a championship? I would have agreed right after the 09 season but his stint alongside Hamilton proofed that he isn’t slow.

    • TMF (@tmf42) said on 10th August 2013, 7:17

      Lucked into a championship? I would have agreed right after the 09 season but his stint alongside Hamilton proofed that he isn’t slow.

  11. Libellula (@ladyf1fanatic) said on 9th August 2013, 17:57

    Aww… I love this article! ;-) There’s a different colour for every F1 Team & its drivers! Don’t you ever run out of ideas? Hats off… Thank you @keithcollantine
    p-s: Bookmarked and will enjoy this article all the week-end while I’m traveling
    Happy Summer holidays Fanatics.

  12. Libellula (@ladyf1fanatic) said on 9th August 2013, 18:18

    To put things in perspective, the 3 DNFs for Nico Rosberg happened when he was lagging behind his Team mate and probably has lost around 8-12 points, meanwhile Lewis Hamilton who was leading the Silverstone GP -but he managed to grabs some points in the end after going last on the grid and let’s remember Nico inherited the win even after Vettel retired- suffered delamination and lost 25 points… To me it looks like Pirelli with tyre blow in GB and the gearbox penalty in qualifying (Bahrein) costs Lewis the most! Yeah, Malaysia with the Team orders would have given +3 points to Nico but had Lewis won his home GP the wins result would be 2:1 to his detriment. I still think those car failures and reliability are at fault but (124-84) standings reflect who is making the most out the Mercedes car once again. Am I wrong?

  13. Michael Brown (@) said on 9th August 2013, 18:28

    I think Vergne has just as much of a chance, if not more of a chance than Ricciardo of getting the Red Bull seat.

  14. FERNANDO123 (@fernando123) said on 9th August 2013, 18:33

    looks to me like MAX CHILTON is the worst rookie of this lot

  15. Force Maikel (@force-maikel) said on 9th August 2013, 18:35

    I Another great read an interesting outcome. Sky sports F1 can now officially stop denying that Max Chilton is taking a severe beating from Jules Bianchi, because according to them he has done a “reasonable” job. The result of keiths graph is clear Chilton is doing a very bad job and needs to start improving to impress anyone in F1. I think it is very clear he was chosen because of the money instead of his talent. However, I don’t think Bianchi got that seat free either, no doubt the Scuderia paid a couple of thousands to give him that opportunity. Some drivers just need to spent a year at the back to know how that feels like.

  16. katederby (@katederby) said on 9th August 2013, 20:08

    Good to see the fact Vergne is ahead of his team mate despite having worse reliability/bad luck, has been noted.
    Webber too has had some ridiculous bad luck; Australia, Canada, Britain, Germany, Hungary.
    Can’t wait for WEC.

  17. kbdavies (@kbdavies) said on 9th August 2013, 20:42

    I think it is a bit unfair applying the same standards to rookies like GVDG or guys who are new to the car/team like Perez and Hamilton. Surely, their performance must be assessed within the context in which it happens.
    To that effect, Lewis is doing an amazing job and Perez is giving Button a very good run for his money.
    The table does not show the true picture for guys like these.
    Webber and Massa on the other hand are doing extremely badly, and Chilton, who is being compared to another rookie is doing absolutely terrible.

  18. oliveiraz33 (@oliveiraz33) said on 9th August 2013, 21:21

    It’s true that vettel has been faster than webber… but is not by the margin that the graphic shows, because webber doesn’t have the same car vettel has… Redbull is always messing up with webber’s race, either for not preparing the car well (multiple DRS, gearbox, etc failiures), or not properly ataching wheels…

    Seems that redbull simply doesn’t stay focused in webber’s equipment as much as webber… and of course, what might count as mechanical errors, also can cause setup errors wich automaticly decreases pace… Because Mark has been in great for this last races… when mark is in good form, something goes wrong…

    • Jorge H. (@kobe08) said on 10th August 2013, 0:06

      RB used Webber’s car on YTD. Don’t know how it could influence reliability problems but what if DRS and KERS systems had some more milage on them due to these test sessions and some more aero tests their allowed to do.. what if Webber’s car does not have the latest new material as I believe Vettel’s has? :D might just be my conspiracy theory..

    • David-A (@david-a) said on 10th August 2013, 6:08

      @oliveiraz33 – Yeah, as soon as I saw “doesn’t have the same car”, that was the sign to tune out and not take you seriously.

    • TMF (@tmf42) said on 10th August 2013, 11:17

      yeah and in Silverstone they put Webber’ gearbox in Vettel’s car by accident. Not to mention the KERS problem Vettel had in Germany or during Monaco FP1 or his brake problem in Hungary FP1. It’s all just because the parts were labelled for Mark.
      I don’t get these theories around RB. The only team on the grid where 1 driver is clearly favored is Ferrari. As I see it, RB treats both drivers as equally as Merc or McLaren does. Lotus tries as much as the budget allows. Sometimes 1 driver has a bit of an edge but in general there is nothing unfair about it.

      • oliveiraz33 (@oliveiraz33) said on 12th August 2013, 20:42

        If I say that webber’s car is less relaible than vettel’s car, does it mean that vettel’s car can’t fail?
        I never saw ferrari stealing a front wing from massa to put in alonso’s car. Massa’s car seem to work well, but massa underperforms… Massa’s fast in the first laps of the race, then he just slows down in the midle of the race.

        I think everybody agree’s that mark webber’s car is less reliable than webber’s, if you don’t I think you have not been watching the same races as I did… it”s a fact…
        Wich as I said, didn’t make webber a better driver than vettel, Vettel for sure is faster than Webber, but I just pointed out that Webber isn’t as bad as statistics woudl say…

        I never buy consiparacy theorys that much, but since I saw the crashgate consipiracy turning real, now I believe in something… Who would say that a team would make a car crash on purpose (spend a bunch of money), to make a car win?

        Everybody knows that RB advisor Helmut Marko is a Vettel Fanboy, even blamed webber on Malasya’s incident when it was clear that was vettel’s fault… knowing the crahsgate, doesn’t seem so impossible, that Helmut Marko for example would pay a mechanic in secret to not faster webber’s wheel properly… Because webber is right now in great form, and is true that Webber right now has no respecto for vettel, and could ruin Vettel’s race if they got close…

        • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 12th August 2013, 21:51

          @oliveiraz33

          Helmut Marko for example would pay a mechanic in secret to not faster webber’s wheel properly

          What you’re suggesting is far worse than ‘Crashgate’. You are claiming that at least two people at Red Bull would be willing to put one of their drivers’ lives at risk, along with the lives of other team members, drivers, marshals and spectators. As dreadful as Crashgate was the dangerous action was committed by one person willingly putting themselves at risk, not inflicted on one entirely innocent party by multiple conspirators.

          Are you actually claiming Helmut Marko and some other party has done this? Or are you just idly suggesting it without really believing it to smear someone you don’t like?

          • oliveiraz33 (@oliveiraz33) said on 13th August 2013, 15:35

            I’m not claiming that he actualy did that, I’m claiming that it could be possible… I don’t see why it is worst than the crash gate… In the crashgate a pilot was told to crash the damn car… here is just not fit the wheel properly… how many crashes have you ever seen because the pit cew didn’t fasten the wheel properly? when they fail to atach the wheel in the pitbox, they realise that right away in the pit exit….

          • oliveiraz33 (@oliveiraz33) said on 13th August 2013, 15:37

            With redbull was 2 people… and in the crashgate how many they were? Briatore and piquet are only 1 person? and some more knew about that for sure, including Alonso….

          • Dave (@raceprouk) said on 13th August 2013, 15:48

            @oliveiraz33 – It’s one thing to make a mistake, quite another to deliberately plan such an event. How do you think the mechanics felt when that happened in Germany? I dearly hope for their sanity they never read comments like yours.

            I suggest you take a long, hard look at yourself before continuing on this line of debate.

          • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 13th August 2013, 16:43

            @oliveiraz33 I don’t think you’ve fully considered the implications of what you’re suggesting because it is far worse than ‘Crashgate’. Whatever your suspicions of Marko’s motives, to imply he would risk killing Webber and others to help Vettel’s title chances in some vague and indirect way is utterly appalling. I don’t take your comments seriously because I don’t think you can possibly have thought them through. I think you’ve got it in for Marko and will say anything negative about him without bothering to consider how realistic it is.

          • oliveiraz33 (@oliveiraz33) said on 14th August 2013, 22:45

            Please explain how it’s more risky?
            Didn’t Nelson Piquet Jr. had the risk of killing? how can it be less risk when they have planed that he would crash 100% sure, on the other hand, the probability of webber crashing is super super slim… Please tell me one situation of a driver crashing against a wall in F1 for a wheel falling off? None that I remember….
            I tell you, I would rather have a wheel that’s not properly fit than a team telling me “crash the car”… At least with a loose wheel, my chances of crashing were super slim, and without crash, how are you supoused to be killed? Did you saw piquet crash? it wasn’t a light crash as you should know…

            I’m sorry, but your theory as the probability’s totaly wrong…

          • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 15th August 2013, 7:51

            @oliveiraz33

            Please explain how it’s more risky?

            I didn’t say it was more dangerous, I said it was worse from an ethical point of view.

        • Dave (@raceprouk) said on 12th August 2013, 23:25

          @oliveiraz33

          Helmut Marko for example would pay a mechanic in secret to not faster webber’s wheel properly

          That is a truly horrific and disgusting thing to say. I will never understand how people can live with making comments this deplorable.

  19. katederby (@katederby) said on 10th August 2013, 7:14

    Even though I point out Webber’s bad luck/misfortunes it doesn’t mean I don’t think he and Vettel have the same car. It’s just conicidence that almost all (bar Silverstone) have been on one side of the garage. I’m just stating facts not ranting about an imagined conspiracy.

    • TMF (@tmf42) said on 10th August 2013, 11:43

      @katederby – fact is since 2009
      Vettel had 9 DNFs (6 due to technical problems + 1 puncture (Abu Dhabi 2011) + 2 accidents)
      Webber had 8 DNFs (1 due to technical problems (USA 2012) + 1 due to loose wheel (China 2013) + 6 due to accidents)

      If you really look for facts than it disproves that it happens only on Webber’s side – even if you include the races where a technical problem influenced qualifying or race results – it actually shows that Vettel had more bad luck in total. 2013 Webber is unluckier but it’s mid-season so it’s probably too early to consider this as fact that there is a difference in how RB prepares the cars.

      • katederby (@katederby) said on 10th August 2013, 16:01

        But we’re talking about 2013, that’s all. I never said it “it happens only on Webber’s side”!
        And as I already said, I don’t buy into the conspiracy theories. The fact that Vettel has had problems confirms my comment that it’s not favouritism but bad luck.
        Any way, in general it’s not just about DNFs but about problems that affect qualifying and hamper the driver during the race, even if he finishes.

      • oliveiraz33 (@oliveiraz33) said on 12th August 2013, 20:36

        showing the number of DNF’s is throwing sand to the readers eyes… because not every time you have problems you have a DNF… Webber did a bunch of qualify sessions and races with a faulty car, and that doesn’t show in your “DNF theory”…

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 13th August 2013, 4:05

          @oliveiraz33 – Vettel had car issues as well in the last two races, that didn’t cause DNFs. BTW, simply saying “a bunch” doesn’t prove anything.

          His DNF theory shows Vettel factually, to have had more race-ending car issues than MW. So explain why that should be swept under the carpet, while you accuse Marko of paying mechanics to sabotage a car, just because you think Webber has a few car issues?

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 13th August 2013, 4:06

            And this is directed at you João Oliveira, not Kate’s comments.

          • oliveiraz33 (@oliveiraz33) said on 13th August 2013, 15:44

            In hungarian GP, he had overheating problems because he was folowing for a long time the same car… Webber didn’t otherwise the would have similar problems… Once vettel got clear air, he got back to normal…

            If you saw the pre-show, you would see adrian newey saying that the cooling of the car as at it’s limit….

          • oliveiraz33 (@oliveiraz33) said on 13th August 2013, 15:58

            I’m not acusing anybody, it was an example… I never saw helmut doing nothing… But there is a fact that webber gets different treatment in the team…

            When I say Helmut Marko blaming webber for the crash in turkey, and other shamefull biased coments in public, it’s prety much clear that Helmut wants to put vettel image on top at any cost… even at the cost of his, and them team’s image…

            And no, webber doesn’t have “a few” car issues…. he has A LOT, especialy compared to the other “similar” car.

            Look:
            -They stole webber’s front wing in the british GP to put in vettel’s car
            -Mark’s car is massively more unreliable than Vetel’s
            -RB advisor (Helmut Marko), makes public statements that clearly makes him biased on vettel)

            I find that a bit strange to see people backing a team doing this kind of strategy’s, (unless you’re German)
            And what I find realy disgusting is that I think Vettel is now seen as a “bad guy”, but i realy think that he was a good kid, but is all spoiled by PR and the team is making him look like a “bad guy” with all that favouritism…

            After this year’s Malasyan GP, it was clear that vettel doesn’t have his own voice… one day he says mark should have won, the other day says that he would do that again… it doesn’t make sense… Vettel’s image is geting dirty, and I think hes also a victim of some people behind him…

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 13th August 2013, 17:35

            They stole webber’s front wing in the british GP to put in vettel’s car

            It was already made clear at the time that the decision was made based on driver feedback with that wing. Vettel was faster and happier with the development than Webber.

            Mark’s car is massively more unreliable than Vetel’s

            There was a COTD that accurately highlighted the issues (both race ending and non-race ending) that the drivers suffered. Webber’s failures aren’t that much more frequent, they’re just over-emphasised.

            RB advisor (Helmut Marko), makes public statements that clearly makes him biased on vettel)

            He prefers Vettel, yes, but if anything, his comments are just calling it as it is, like the time he said Webber didn’t take pressure well. In 2010 MW crumbled towards the end of the season, same with 2012, when Mark was doing better than in 2010.

            And what I find realy disgusting is that I think Vettel is now seen as a “bad guy”, but i realy think that he was a good kid, but is all spoiled by PR and the team is making him look like a “bad guy” with all that favouritism…

            After this year’s Malasyan GP, it was clear that vettel doesn’t have his own voice… one day he says mark should have won, the other day says that he would do that again… it doesn’t make sense… Vettel’s image is geting dirty, and I think hes also a victim of some people behind him…

            To be fair, I’m not really a Red Bull fan either. But usually, if a team favours a driver, it’s their faster driver, or their better chance of the title.C Clearly, guys like Webber and Massa aren’t close to their teammates on ability. But for whatever reason, people have no issue with Alonso over Massa, yet with Vettel over Webber, it’s suddenly an issue for some people.

          • oliveiraz33 (@oliveiraz33) said on 14th August 2013, 22:55

            That’s **… how can webber not be happy if he got furious when they got the wing out of his car before the race? And in fact webber was the fastest guy in that weekend on the practise sessions… and in qualy, RB stole his wing to give vettel’s… and guess who got pole? Vettel….

            Check out the britsh GP and see how “happy” was webber about it… it also gave way to the famous radio comment “not bad for a nº2 driver…”… So happy….

            It’s true that teams favour the driver… but it was the first half of the season, redbull was in great form… no need to change wings…
            It was a bad decision by redbull, because if it wasn’t bad, it wouldn’t make the headline of the sports news… something like this that I quote: “vettel on british gp pole as underdog webber fumes over wing change”

            Simple… Webber was the fastest driver all weekend so far (remember, mark webber loves, and always has been super fast in silverstone), in Qualify they stole his wing to vettel, wich got pole with wing…. Mark webber ended up winning the race with the “worse” wing… So RB just favoured the slowest driver in that weekend…

            Don’t get me wrong… RB is a fantastic company, they are the company that most support young talents not only in F1, but in absolute everything, especialy in underated radical sports…. but in F1, I just don’t like them… (and I like Christian Horner, but I think he lacks power under the team)

  20. mhop (@mhop) said on 10th August 2013, 11:10

    This is a very poor use of statistics.

    The crude ‘qualified ahead’ statistic is particularly misleading. Take di Resta and Sutil for example. You suggests they are evenly matched but in reality Sutil has only outqualified di Resta ONCE in dry conditions: the last race, Hungary.

    • @mhop all statistics have limitations: if you were to go into every detail of where the data has inaccuracies then the article would be so long you may not be able to load it!

      That’s what the comments section is for: to elaborate upon the bare statistics and argue what they show.

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