Rate the race: 2013 Italian Grand Prix

2013 Italian Grand Prix

Nico Hulkenberg, Sauber, Monza, 2013What did you think of today’s race? Share your verdict on the Italian Grand Prix.

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2013 Italian Grand Prix

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243 comments on Rate the race: 2013 Italian Grand Prix

  1. Win7Golf (@win7golf) said on 8th September 2013, 15:26

    As at most races, the only thing worth seeing was the fights and the overtakes of Lewis Hamilton. I hope next year the ‘power units’ will scramble everything, fail a lot and mix all the results. Hope Renault isn’t doing as good job as Mercedes, so Red Bull add the DRS and gear box problems, engine issues… It’s getting as boring as the ‘BLACK Schumacher ERA’…

    Lets hope for some malfunctions and errors to Vettel in the next races, so Lewis, Kimi and .. Alonso come closer…

  2. David Margono (@woshidavid95) said on 8th September 2013, 15:30

    Raikkonen smashing into the back of Perez at the first corner… if I didn’t see that it was car #7 I’d definitely assume it was Grosjean, it’s the type of mistake Grosjean would get lambasted for but in this race he was pretty solid, he drove cleanly and made tidy passes on the McLarens and were it not for that botched pit stop he’d be in 7th ahead of Ricciardo. Role reversal between the Lotus drivers anyone? That aside, the midfield scrap kept the race alive. 7/10.

    • Glenn (@glennb) said on 8th September 2013, 16:30

      I agree with the Grosjean assessment. As it was Kimi, it was Perez’s fault. Brundle said as much at the time. Perez moved over on him and braked hard, like it’s a bad thing. Like that’s not going to happen at that chicane…

      • Oli Littlejohn (@olilittlejohn) said on 8th September 2013, 19:52

        to be fair they did say it was ‘an uncharacteristic mistake’ from Kimi so I wouldn’t say they blamed Perez for it. Definitely Kimi’s error though which was a shame.

  3. Tayyib (@m0nzaman) said on 8th September 2013, 15:34

    Gave it a 6/10. It was okay, not brilliant but not terrible. Hamilton and Icemans title hopes surely gone. Alonso’s hopes are slim but it was a stunning overtake on Webber, really was incredible. Vettel ‘s drive was just complete and it was domination. Really good drive from Hulkenberg how long is his talent going to go unnoticed. Someone give him a top drive. Force India have been really struggling since the tyre change in my opinion unfairly due to Pirelli and Di Resta is going through a tricky patch of form. Hamilton and Kimi were very unlucky had good pace but nothing went right. One mention on the Vettel booing, I dont think its because he wins all the time. I think its the multi 21 and its not cause he ignored team orders, its saying I apologise and then saying I’d do the same again. It was a bit confusing.

    On another note from a Ferrari fan I’d just say congratulations on 50 years of McLaren and to many more.

  4. Antonio (@antoniocorleone) said on 8th September 2013, 15:34

    I gave it a 5, as for me, it was among the 2 dullest races of the year.
    As for the booing – Its not as bad as Vettel/RBR dominating the WDC/WCC.

  5. Lucas Wilson (@full-throttle-f1) said on 8th September 2013, 15:42

    I thought we were past the shumacher era. So boring this year, 2011 all over again. RBR is putting me off F1, and starting next year i’m watching other series. So hope 2014 provides a different winner.

    Also about the booing. My reason is that people are just getting bored of Vettel winning, you know, it being 4 years in a row and everything, not a personal attack.

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 8th September 2013, 16:16

      @full-throttle-f1

      My reason is that people are just getting bored of Vettel winning, you know, it being 4 years in a row and everything, not a personal attack.

      Jeering at someone is a personal attack – how could it be interpreted any other way? – and the shortness of a person’s attention is no excuse for it.

      • Lucas Wilson (@full-throttle-f1) said on 8th September 2013, 16:27

        People booed Shumacher. But no one I can think of has a problem with him now he is retired. Perhaps I am a bit bored, but all my friends are bored of it too, so it can’t just be me. Even if Hamilton won 1 more championship and Vettel wins another one. It least it breaks a bit of monotony of which a period is in a way dominated by of the least popular drivers and teams. The reaction would be different if it was JB and McLaren winning 4 straight World Championships.

      • I’m a little surprised at that too. You can’t say you’re getting bored of Vettel winning and then say it’s not personal. If you’re going to try to be generalizing, say you don’t like the same guy winning all of the time, but even then you’re still blaming Vettel for being good.

        Is it me, or are people getting much more anti-Vettel than they ever were anti-Schumacher? I don’t remember Schumacher ever being booed, actually.

        • Dave (@raceprouk) said on 8th September 2013, 16:48

          You can’t say you’re getting bored of Vettel winning and then say it’s not personal

          I can, as I also got bored of Schumacher winning in ’03-’04.

        • Lucas Wilson (@full-throttle-f1) said on 8th September 2013, 16:51

          @npf1

          Check the net for Shumcher booing. I can’t help who I like and who I don’t like. I just don’t like Vettel. For example Alonso with (once again) his mighty first lap performance, his driving makes me go wow every time I watch him. Taking nothing away from Vettel (he is a good driver) but Alonso is just on another world of performance.

          And while people say that there is no ‘arrogance’ with Vettel, but I do believe there is, even in his earlier days I could sense that, there is a line between being proud and being arrogant, and sometimes (being very fair here) he does cross it.

          There are a lot of people who feel the same way about this. If you like Vettel, that’s fine. I can’t help the fact that I just don’t like him. Perhaps if he had to fight for a few more wins….

        • Broom (@brum55) said on 8th September 2013, 17:48

          People may have reacted differently if Schumacher was interviewed on the podium like the current format.
          But yeah, global interest in F1 was at an all time low back then. People were turning off in their droves. It was horrible. I gave up completely in 2004 after it turned out to be a carbon copy of the dreadful 2002 season.

        • @raceprouk Then you’re getting bored of someone winning all the time, not Vettel and Schumacher, unless they are the reasons you’re getting bored. I was a massive Schumacher fan, but got bored of him winning and I’d never call that anything other than personal. In 2001 I enjoyed HIS dominance, while I would have hated anyone else dominating. That’s pretty personal if you ask me.

          @full-throttle-f1 Schumacher deserved all the boos he got at Austria 2002, USA 2002 but not the cheering at Silverstone 1999. He didn’t get booed that much other than that.

          Multi-21 has nothing on Schumacher’s antics and I say that as a fan of Schumacher and a critic of Vettel. I don’t like Vettel. I think he is showing some personality this year, but has been furthering the lack of personality in F1 set in motion by Schumacher’s professional approach. I still like Alesi more than any of the current drivers, because he is a character.

          You can’t help who you don’t like, but you can help how you act towards them and their friends/supporters. It’s not a matter of liking Vettel, it’s a matter of decency. Vettel has done nothing to warrant booing, while Alonso (my current favorite) and Schumacher (my all time favorite) have done far more questionable things with the intention to harm.

          Vettel is ‘arrogant’ as Schumacher was in the late 90s. Ruthless and cold. Vettel is trying to copy Schumacher (not judging that) in being nearly machine-like in approach. He knows how to motivate and have fun, but his approach to F1 is strictly business. He’s there to win, not to make friends. You can call that arrogance, but I think that’s a matter of opinion and vocabulary. I can’t deny he has some hubris, though.

          And again, Alonso is my favorite driver right now, but if he really was on another level of performance, wouldn’t he be able to beat Vettel? In 2010 and 2011 it was obvious Vettel had things to learn, but over the past 2 seasons Vettel has shown us he can win from other positions than pole and can overtake pretty well. He’s not the talented rookie in a very good car anymore; he is becoming a force, even if we don’t like it.

      • Vettel is fast, precise, constant, working hard and has the fastest car. Maybe not every race but overall for sure. He is good, very good and he will win this year too, people are getting bored, except his fans, for sure. :)
        Every single race ends with a “what if…” or “this race had potential but…”

        As I see it, Vettel has many talents, entertaining the crowd is not one of them. Look at what Alonso did on the podium. Trowed the hat, the glasses, then took the phone, made pictures with the crowd and then put them online. Put a title on it, [insert any omg the best crowd in the world] and that’s it. For this they [will] love him. Almost all F1 drivers do it but not Vettel. He probably just doesn’t care, very good then, focus on driving, very good again but don’t expect the crowd to love you if you don’t show any interest in it.

        I can understand the “boo” from the crowd, I can’t understand why it should be taken personal as Keith above suggests.

        Anyway, my2c.

        • @oji I wouldn’t call Alonso the greatest of crowd entertainers. The photos were a nice touch but the reason Vettel hasn’t done that is that he stays of twitter, which isn’t a bad idea as it serves as a distraction for a racing driver (neither does Kimi, but he’s massively popular). The cap thing is nothing unsual though.

          The reason the booing should be taken as personal is because they are booing Vettel – he cannot be removed from the equation. Essentially, they are booing the sport’s best driver at the moment because he’s winning and nothing more. To be frank, I don’t understand why they turn up at races if they aren’t going to be happy unless Alonso wins (or whoever the driver in question is).

          That’s my perspective!

          • @vettel1 “I wouldn’t call Alonso the greatest of crowd entertainers” – I never said he was. I only wanted to point that he like the majority keep in touch with the fans.

            “I don’t understand why they turn up at races if they aren’t going to be happy unless Alonso wins”. I’m guessing you are a Vettel fan, are you happy when Vettel does not win ? The Ferrari fans will be happy when Ferrari wins. The McLaren fans will be happy when McLaren wins and so on, this is valid for any sport.
            Also by this logic of yours, if I support Marussia (for example), I should not go to races because they have zero chances to win ? Really bad logic.

            “the booing should be taken as personal” – Vettel on the podium : “A fantastic race – but you can hear the difference, obviously, when you don’t win here in a red suit, you get a lot of that but in the end it’s very nice because it means you’ve done very good and beat the red guys.” Learn from the racer you support and do not take everything personal.

          • Hamilfan (@hamilfan) said on 9th September 2013, 4:26

            @oji +1000000……to infinity

        • Look at what Alonso did on the podium.

          He played to his own supporters, who made up the great majority of the audience. No great skill required to do that. When Vettel drives for Ferrari he’ll do the same thing, and they’ll cheer hm for it.

      • John H (@john-h) said on 8th September 2013, 22:22

        @keithcollantine I remember Vettel’s recent complaints about getting booed at Silverstone (and Montreal) with the comment recently that: “I had not done anything to make them do it”. Now he gets booed at Monza, and note the similarity – these are fans that love motorsport at these races. Who knows about Spa, Greenpeace kind of stole the show with that one!

        Unfortunately these statements by Vettel don’t do him any favours. He’s basically stabbed his teammate in the back in Malaysia and now he’s going to have to live with the consequences, and if that makes him unpopular to the point of booing then I’m sorry but he has to shoulder some of the responsibility. That’s not how a sportsman should have behaved and I said so at the time. Sometimes winning at all costs isn’t everything to be a great in motorsport – we learnt that from Ari Vatanen.

        Now, booing isn’t great and two wrongs do not make a right, but this isn’t about Vettel’s dominance – its about his attitude at Turkey 2010 and Malaysia 2013 and his gestures/comments following these incidents. As you make your bed, so you must lie on it – no matter how many races you win.

    • This is nothing remotely like the Schumacher era. Unless by “Schumacher era” you mean “some German driver I don’t like is winning more often than I want.”

    • HoHum (@hohum) said on 9th September 2013, 7:52

      Well it is showbiz, remember. F1 as a sport is long gone, at least as a sport for gentlemen, so instead we have the eternal showbiz battle between Dick Dastardly and Dudley Dooright, hurrah, boo, hiss.

    • Deb Luhi (@debeluhi) said on 9th September 2013, 13:31

      In Canada it was his third win when all this started. You can’t say people were bored after just three wins.

  6. Hamilfan (@hamilfan) said on 8th September 2013, 15:44

    Gave it a 7 for all the passes that Hamilton , Raikkonen and Alonso made . And some clean scraps between perez and grosjean added a little spice .

    Martin Brundle on vettel during the 50th odd lap after the camera focused on him finally : ‘ He still in the race , isn’t he ‘ .

    You know when that happens , it’s not a real spectacle of a race . ( The margin was too high )

    • iAltair (@ialtair) said on 8th September 2013, 15:58

      Vettel was forgotten.

      • Shreyas Mohanty (@) said on 8th September 2013, 16:50

        Deserves to be. Just cruising through grands prix on the RB9 isn’t worth remembering. He doesn’t make mistakes, to his credit, but how will he when Adrian Newey has given him a car that just goes on expanding the gap to the second car each lap?

        • David Margono (@woshidavid95) said on 8th September 2013, 23:10

          @shreyasf1fan
          No doubt the car has played an integral role in Vettel’s success but if Vettel is pulling huge gaps while Webber is scrapping with other drivers instead of being a solid 2nd or even challenging Vettel, then Vettel must possess some prodiguous driving skills. Even Barrichello was solidly 2nd in 2002 and 2004 despite Schumi receiving blatant favouritism so there’s no excuse for Webber.

          • Broom (@brum55) said on 9th September 2013, 0:32

            Age? He is 37 now. Webber was pretty competitive in 2010 and had his moments last year too.

          • Hamilfan (@hamilfan) said on 9th September 2013, 4:30

            Also Vettel seems to adapt to the EBD design very very quickly ( He is one of the big four after all ) .

            Sebastian Bourdais , his yesteryear teammate had said ” once they brought the newley designed car, he was like a fish inside water , wiggling with excitement . ”

            Here’s hoping things will change in 2014 . But , Vettel is a great driver and will always remain there or threabouts near the podium given a bad car . It’s just that the margin here was too huge which made me bored and dull.

          • HoHum (@hohum) said on 9th September 2013, 8:00

            It’s more to do with the dominance of aerodynamics, in clean air Webber is very competitive but when following another car the Newey magic is missing.

          • David Margono (@woshidavid95) said on 9th September 2013, 8:25

            @brum55
            Why would age be such a huge factor? Schumacher was 36-37 when he was battling Alonso for his 8th WDC in 2006. Webber was a lot closer to Vettel in 2010 but Vettel bore the brunt of the reliability issues (While admittedly he only made it worse with some huge errors in Turkey and Belgium that year) that year, here for evidence: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/10/19/hes-14-points-behind-but-vettel-should-be-leading-the-championship-by-59/
            Besides, Webber was only 1 year older in 2011 so there’s no reason for the gap to widen to such an extent. Vettel was pretty good in 2010, but now he has ironed out almost all of his mistakes and IMO he’s pretty much the complete package and although I think most would say it’s Alonso, when someone of Massa’s caliber (Clearly worse than Webber) manages to outqualify you 4 times while Vettel is absolutely dominating Webber, he’s not exactly complete.

        • @shreyasf1fan forgot the days of 2008 and 2009 when the same Adrian Newey did not gave them the best car… Dude it takes time to achieve perfection and Adrian is just one part of the team like Sebastian… Everything has to fall in right place to achieve success and it does not happen overnight… If Newey was so great there would not have been Ferrari domination on the 2000s ( not to take any credit away of Neweys talent).. But as I said, its how the whole team is, which contributes to success..

          Looking at your avatar, I can well understand whose line you are toeing wrt the Newey thing

    • @hamilfan and nothing on the Nicos wonderful duel… Nico Rosberg finished higher than Lewis Hamilton, yet getting hardly any mention on F1F, had it been the other way round, we would have seen a Hamilton fan train

      • Hamilfan (@hamilfan) said on 9th September 2013, 7:00

        @noob Yes Nico did finish higher than Lewis ultimately . But I doubt it would be something he would cherish for he could not pass Nico Hulkenberg when it was necessary . Besides a 6th place is not all that satisfactory going by Nico’s standards , a 4th or so would have been better considering the pace Lewis showed . But , it was not his fault. He missed FP3 and had to pay the price for qualifying low .

  7. Yosi (@yoshif8tures) said on 8th September 2013, 15:53

    5 from me. Funny how the last few classic tracks have produced such borefests…

    • I was thinking the same earlier. I think it might have to do with the car’s design. It’s been said Red Bull have (in the past) designed their cars to optimize on the Tilke tracks, while Tilke is also building a certain kind of track a lot.

      It’s almost as if we’re now seeing the modern tracks are better suited to the modern cars, where as in the past the cars were designed to suit the tracks.

    • @yoshif8tures I think you are right… Its time to scrap these tracks or bring them in alternate years.. The problem is these tracks are there for a long time, and the teams know in and out of it.. Way too much exposure to these tracks have taken away the surprise element…

    • Dan (@rcrider13) said on 9th September 2013, 14:07

      If this track was designed by Tilke and kept producing boring races like these, it would be extremely humorous to read all the posts on this site about what a terrible race it is and why they should scrap it.

  8. Imre (@f1mre) said on 8th September 2013, 16:25

    Rain is needed. Not in Singapore ‘cos the race would be stopped(probably), but in India, Japan and Korea. SC in Abu Dhabi. COTA wasn’t bad last year and Brazil always produces good races(rain always helps, though)

  9. zoom (@zoomracing) said on 8th September 2013, 16:37

    Very good job by the top 5, I feel sorry for Alonso, it looks like from here the only thing he can achieve is 2nd (at best), Vettel is going to win the rest of the races. At least I hope we see some good fights.

  10. I too am finding these races boring as the season goes on. Vettel just dominates and the rest try to play catch-up. Yawn. I feel bad for the drivers who always wind up on the bottom half of the final position list. That has to be very frustrating.

    Also, it’s amazing that these drivers make so much money driving these cars and most of them will never get into the top 10 rankings. Alonso makes $50 million a year driving for Ferrari, and he’s only won 11 of the 69 races he’s driven. That’s just ridiculous. I would think they’d tie in their salary based on their season accomplishments: you win 50% of the races, you get a nice salary and maybe a bonus. You win the season, more $$$ for you!

  11. Broom (@brum55) said on 8th September 2013, 16:38

    Thought it was quite a good race. Mainly thanks to Hamilton and Raikkonnen. 7/10.

  12. Glenn (@glennb) said on 8th September 2013, 16:42

    I’m in the minority and gave it a 8.
    As a Webber fan I was pleased to see him start reasonably well. Massa started better as usual but Mark didn’t do too much wrong. Great overtake by Alonso. That must have felt gratifying. Good comeback from Hamilton as usual and Kimi went OK too. Hulk went better than I expected and will be pretty pleased with the result. Webber came back at Alonso after the stop which was a little exciting. Both RB’s with trans issues added a little tension. Ricciardo’s race was fairly uneventful but finished with a few nice points. Vettel dominated the race as expected and also won the podium debacle. Glad he didn’t throw his #1 Pirelli hat to the crowd. Ungrateful lot didn’t deserve it. I still hate those podium interviews. I think I’ve seen one decent one but forget who did it. Brundle? It certainly wasn’t Jean Alesi ;)
    I hope Webber’s car isn’t underweight. Assuming he stopped due to lack of fuel.
    8/10 might be a little generous but I’m stuck with it now.

  13. Patrick (@paeschli) said on 8th September 2013, 17:04

    I think we’re only now seeing how Red Bull made a car that’s so much better than the rest. I think it’s the first time we see the Bulls dominating that way since Maleysia where they made it a 1-2.
    If I’m right, if Alonso wins all following races and Vettel finishes 2nd in every race, Vettel still will be WC + he also won 50% of the 2013 races so far.

  14. Martin (@aardvark) said on 8th September 2013, 17:27

    7/10 from me, but I won’t argue with a 6.

    There was always a bit of excitement somewhere, although you had to look quite far back in the midfield to find it.

    One thing that gives me hope was all the KERS-assisted passes on corners. With more KERS next year, we might get more non-DRS overtakes. Certainly it will give the drivers more headaches in deciding when to conserve power and when to go for it.

  15. Patrick (@paeschli) said on 8th September 2013, 17:29

    I fact, my only point of disappointment apart of the a-bit-too-easy win for Vettel was that we haven’t seen any rain or what Hamilton and Kimi could have done with there alternative pit-stop strategy. They could have done a great grand prix if they had made their 1-stop strategy starting with the hards work.

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