Alonso will get less help from Raikkonen – Button

F1 Fanatic Round-up

Fernando Alonso, Felipe Massa, Ferrari, Monza, 2013In the round-up: Jenson Button says Fernando Alonso will find Kimi Raikkonen is less ready to sacrifice his own chances for Alonso’s benefit than Felipe Massa was.

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Your daily digest of F1 news, views, features and more.

Button relaxed over contract (Sky)

“Alonso’s probably used to a different style of team mate over the last few years with Felipe. A guy who’s quick, but pretty much has to do what Fernando says I guess when it comes to team orders. Kimi will not be like that.”

Sauber: Gutierrez can push Hulkenberg (Autosport)

Monisha Kaltenborn: “What most don’t see is that he does very good preparation and set-up work and very often that is not reflected in his results. But he is on the right way there.”

How To Make An F1 Car: Design and R&D (Part 1) (Red Bull via YouTube)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFJ3ta-0O5c

An Off-Track Guide to Singapore?s F1 Weekend (The Wall Street Journal)

“The Podium Lounge party is back this year, giving a lucky ? or wealthy ? few the chance to party with F1 racers, models and other celebrities.”

The Power 1000: London’s hottest 25 under-25s (London Evening Standard)

“If Chilton continues to perform as well as he did at the Australian Grand Prix, where he raced for the Marussia team, he could become the next Lewis Hamilton or Jenson Button.”

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Comment of the day

@Ifelix on the qualifying battle between Mercedes and Red Bull:

What is amazing is that despite the fact that Mercedes won the pole position in ten out of twelve races, the average grid position of Vettel is 2.5 while those of Rosberg and Hamilton are 3.25 and 4.17 respectively.

This shows how consistent this guy is, as there is no question that Mercedes are the fastest car over one lap this season (although I think this average has been a bit skewed by failing to reach Q3 in Monza for both Mercedes drivers).
@Ifelix

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On this day in F1

Happy birthday to Brian Henton who is 67 today. Henton is one of two drivers to have set a fastest lap in F1 but never scored a point. The other, Esteban Gutierrez, still has time to notch up that first point.

Image ?? Ferrari/Ercole Colombo

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47 comments on Alonso will get less help from Raikkonen – Button

  1. hunocsi (@hunocsi) said on 19th September 2013, 0:57

    “If Chilton continues to perform as well as he did at the Australian Grand Prix, where he raced for the Marussia team, he could become the next Lewis Hamilton or Jenson Button.”

    That is really funny.

    • Hamish said on 19th September 2013, 2:01

      Can a excerpt of an article in the daily round-up get COTD?

    • matt90 (@matt90) said on 19th September 2013, 2:10

      About the only thing accurate in that sentence is that Chilton was indeed in the Australian GP with Marussia. I love that they make it sound as though it was a recent success for him, rather than a distant memory of a distinctly average performance.

    • Hamish said on 19th September 2013, 2:19

      Which begs the question – does accepting a seat in a Caterham or a Marussia basically mean the end of your F1 career before it has begun?

      What does a driver do, keeping aiming for a better seat, or accept mediocrity in order to fulfill a dream – drive in F1.

      If Glock and Kovalainen (who are both good drivers) are getting pushed aside for the next generation of laughs I’d hate to think what regard F1 teams view the current drivers in.

      I will accept all rebuttals that don’t contain the words “Jules Bianci”

      • David-A (@david-a) said on 19th September 2013, 2:25

        I will accept all rebuttals that don’t contain the words “Jules Bianci”

        Bianchi. That is an acceptable rebuttal, as it clearly didn’t contain the words you excluded.

        • Hamish said on 19th September 2013, 6:03

          Haha apologies.

          I’d love for McLaren or Lotus to take a punt on Timo Glock.

          He is a solid driver that never got the chance. I know there are some out there that say his 2010 car would have destroyed the field, but I’d say the brains of the field would have picked up on it quickly. I think at best he would have had a competitive car, which meant he could of been that – competitive.

          A little bit disappointing we never got the chance to see that.

      • Kelly (@kelly) said on 19th September 2013, 3:14

        I don’t think so necessarily. Some decent drivers started out at the back of the grid. Just look at Alonso and Webber who both started out at Minadri for two recent examples.

      • BJ (@beejis60) said on 19th September 2013, 4:51

        Bianchi is in an apparent rumor, but how about Ricciardo and Bruno Senna? Granted, Senna didn’t really pan out, but he started at HRT…

        • James (@iamjamm) said on 19th September 2013, 8:46

          The fact he started with HRT is no excuse for his poor performance at Renault and then Williams 2 years later.

          • That isn’t what he meant. He meant he was a driver for a backmarker who actually escaped to better teams.

          • But he was already in f1 with a top team, he was sent their for mileage.

            Funnily enough I’d say it was done with recent events being the ideal target.

    • JCost (@jcost) said on 19th September 2013, 6:56

      Wow! Is that a paid reporter reporting on the skills of a paid driver?

  2. OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 19th September 2013, 1:18

    I know Ferrari has boycotted his second driver many times (Barrichello with the jack on the nosecone at the starting grid, the gearbox in Austin last year, …) but it’s not as if Massa could help Alonso so much all year round. What could really be a bunch of help could be to get more podiums in front of rival drivers. Of course, there’s a cloud of mistery about it, because Ferrari seems to get Massa under a contractual situation where he can’t get nearer Alonso. Alonso is superior, but probably the selfsteem was broken in Massa. If Massa tries to play the rebel role these final races, I see another “pit delay” or “jack in the nose” “random incident” on him

    • TMF (@tmf42) said on 19th September 2013, 5:37

      The thing with being #2 has a lot more to it than just moving out of the way. It starts with FPs and who has to test and who can work on his car setup. Also who gets the best window in qualifying and who gets the better race strategy. And who gets simulator time to work on race preparation instead of trying out new things.
      It was rumored that Massa did a lot more testing in FP1 and FP2 than Alonso and that he partially worked as baseline (not changing his setup) while Alonso was trying a few things out.
      there are a lot of small things that add up and contribute to the gap between a number 1 and number 2 driver.

      I hope Massa gets another seat for next year where he doesn’t have to play second fiddle and then we’d see if it really was down to the accident or if something else caused his lack in performance.

    • You know @omarr-pepper, if Alonso continues coming second or third and Massa finishces right behind him, it won’t take him to the championship if Vettel is the one continuously on the first spot. At least Massa does not take away points from Alonso, somethign which at Mercedes/Red Bull/McLaren happens.

    • I know Ferrari has boycotted his second driver many times (Barrichello with the jack on the nosecone at the starting grid, the gearbox in Austin last year

      Thats funny.. I thought people thought the same way about Red Bull.

      Well, at least Red Bull put a competitive teammate next to Seb for next year.. its not like they believe in Ferrari’s rubbish ‘one rooster’ philosophy

  3. Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 19th September 2013, 1:53

    In the round-up: Jenson Button says Fernando Alonso will find Kimi Raikkonen is less ready to sacrifice his own chances for Alonso’s benefit than Felipe Massa was.
    Raikkonen had no problems moving out of Massa’s way at China 2008. I don’t know why everybody thinks that Kimi is too proud to be a #2 driver. He’s already been a #2 driver at Ferrari before.

    • Mach1 (@mach1) said on 19th September 2013, 2:36

      Maybe it is the impression that Massa was a no.2 driver from the beginning of the season. Did he really have a chance of challenging Alsonso and being considered no.1 from the beginning? Alonso was their golden boy.
      There is a sense that (without evidence) Raikkonen will be considered equal from day one. Raikkonen, could possibly bring the fight to Alonso much quicker and therefore carry more weight/support within the team.

      However, as you say, Raikkonen has been no.2 in the past, but only when it was clear he was out of the championship race, later in the season….not from the beginning.

    • OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 19th September 2013, 2:46

      @kingshark let’s analyse it ok?
      2008 Chinese GP: penultimate round in the championship (round 17 out of 18) and Kimi already out of contention for the title
      2010 German GP: eleventh round in the championship (out of 19) and Massa low in points, but “mathematically” in contention for the championship.

      It’s not bad to be a second driver in Ferrari, it’s bad to be humiliated in doing so. Alonso, if almighty, should have easily overtaken Massa (wasn’t he faster than Felipe? Or they feared the same result when he couldn’t overtake Petrov?).
      Kimi will certainy be tempted to kick the board if he is treated “as a Massa”, or even more, his contract can have a clause preventing it to happen. He can help, be can’t take a slap on the face over and over.

      • OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 19th September 2013, 2:47

        be can’t take but can’t take

        • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 19th September 2013, 5:52

          @mach1

          Maybe it is the impression that Massa was a no.2 driver from the beginning of the season. Did he really have a chance of challenging Alsonso and being considered no.1 from the beginning? Alonso was their golden boy.

          Bahrain 2010 – Massa outqualifies Alonso, Alonso overtakes him fair and square.
          Australia 2010 – Alonso stuck behind Massa despite being much quicker. No team orders.
          Malaysia 2010 – Massa out-starts and out-races Alonso, who drove the race with a broken clutch.

          Fact of the matter is that there was no preferential treatment at Ferrari until Alonso was mathematically in a much better position than Massa in the championship.

          • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 19th September 2013, 5:55

            @omarr-pepper

            It’s not bad to be a second driver in Ferrari, it’s bad to be humiliated in doing so. Alonso, if almighty, should have easily overtaken Massa (wasn’t he faster than Felipe? Or they feared the same result when he couldn’t overtake Petrov?).

            Overtaking an identical car before Pirelli, DRS, and KERS = extremely difficult, you should remember this from 2010.

            Kimi will certainy be tempted to kick the board if he is treated “as a Massa”, or even more, his contract can have a clause preventing it to happen. He can help, be can’t take a slap on the face over and over.

            I’m sure that Felipe had a contract for 2010 which promised him equal treatment from the team as Fernando, but he was demoted to #2 when Ferrari saw who was clearly the better driver of the two.

          • Nomore (@nomore) said on 19th September 2013, 9:37

            @kingshark
            +1 well said.
            You can add Australia 2013, China 2011..etc as well to those facts.
            …but people have their own interpretation of reality.
            As for Button (my personal opinion) he wanted the Felipe’s seat (more money), that’s why he is trying to tell us that Ferrari made the wrong choice (in the article is not mentioned but he also added that he with Hamilton worked pretty well).

          • Fact of the matter is that there was no preferential treatment at Ferrari until Alonso was mathematically in a much better position than Massa in the championship.

            Which then carried over for 2011, 2012 and 2013?

            I agree, if Massa had showed he was a better driver in 2010, then things may have been different. However, you would expect or hope for a driver to be considered on equal terms at the start of each new season.

            Which is why I said, there is an impression, at the start of the season (since 2011 if you like), that Alonso is their main man.

            I hope that, (unless out of the championship race) Raikkonen will not become a defacto no.2.

          • petebaldwin (@petebaldwin) said on 19th September 2013, 13:47

            @kingshark – lets assume they start the season as equal drivers. Is Massa the best Ferrari could get!? For the last 4 seasons, he has underperformed massively. Would an equal number 1 driver be allowed to underperform so much at any other top team?

            For me he is a clear number 2 starting in Australia. Ferrari know he won’t be able to compete with Alonso so they can hide behind the fact that they are equals. This won’t be the case with Raikkonen because whilst Alonso may win more races, Raikkonen is spectacularly consistent.

          • @nomore

            You’re probably right. Button was flattered when the media started Button to Ferrari rumours. And obviously he’s going to moan about not getting the #2 driver spot in Ferrari

            I actually would like to see Button as Alonso’s teammate. Alonso would have eat him for breakfast on every single day of a race weekend… throughout the year,

  4. We get these comments every driver change. Button going to McLaren, sparks are going to fly etc. We got Hamilton better one year, Button better the next then McLaren screwing the third. Once the lights go out it is/should be every man for themself. But. When it comes to car development and pre-race setup then both drivers are going to share knowledge and experience. That’s the crucial bit. That is why having two world champions are a benefit. Is Kimmi going to beat Alonso? Maybe. Is Alonso going to beat Kimmi? Maybe. Is Ferrari going to beat everyone else? The odds are better.

  5. I like the idea behind the COTD, but Vettel’s had 4 poles this year, not 2 (Australia, Malaysia, Canada, and Italy). Quite a few 2nd places too.

  6. Nickpkr251 said on 19th September 2013, 5:19

    I guess if Mclaren is using this year mcdog for 2014 testing using all increidible set up capabilities of Button, then won’t need him next year and hulkenberg can join Perez in one of the most exciting driver line ups, the intra team battle will be epic too.

  7. Shreyas Mohanty (@) said on 19th September 2013, 6:28

    @kingshark Exactly! It’s irritating when people just hold on to one race out of context and squeeze conclusions from it.

  8. TMF (@tmf42) said on 19th September 2013, 6:33

    regarding the COTD – Vettel is like Hamilton and Rosberg an excellent qualifier – we knew that much. What is more impressive this year is his 2.0 race average. Australia, China, Hungary, Spain and Monaco he managed to salvage big points and this year he didn’t make any stupid mistakes (a few small ones, but nothing with major consequences) – unlike 2012 where he mad his life difficult in Spain, Italy and Germany. The car is also less dominant than it was in 2011 and to be that good in a field with 4 race winning teams you have to be on top of your game.

  9. BasCB (@bascb) said on 19th September 2013, 6:40

    That article on Sauber pointing out that Guttierez has done a solid job so far / is on the verge of improving and doing some solid drives is a hint they would like to keep him for next year IMO

  10. Chris (@tophercheese21) said on 19th September 2013, 7:14

    I’ve noticed that Jenson has been quite outspoken about the ‘dog-kicking’ that Felipe gets at Ferrari.

  11. achebe said on 19th September 2013, 8:39

    How to make an F1 car without Adrain Newey

  12. Rob Wilson (@rob-wilson) said on 19th September 2013, 8:48

    It’s not about Massa, everybody thinks he is weak but Ferrari would treat any driver who’s only scoring half the points of his team-mate in the same way, that’s the way the team rolls.

  13. Cant say i agree with COTD. Not that thats surprising, its another skewing of stats to create a particular impression about a particular driver/team with no regard for the story behind the stat.

    We all know full well why Hamiltons race average is lower than Vettels, its got nothing to do with skill. Vettel has enjoyed a far better race car, simple. That stats do not reflect or tell the story of Mercs diabolic use of tyres in the first half of the year. The only thing the stat does is create the image that Hamilton is a good qualifier but a ‘not so good’ racer, which is a load of horse poo.

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