Mark Webber, Red Bull, Suzuka, 2013

2013 Japanese Grand Prix grid

2013 Japanese Grand PrixPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Mark Webber, Red Bull, Suzuka, 2013

Row 1 1. Mark Webber 1’30.915
Red Bull
2. Sebastian Vettel 1’31.089
Red Bull
Row 2 3. Lewis Hamilton 1’31.253
4. Romain Grosjean 1’31.365
Row 3 5. Felipe Massa 1’31.378
6. Nico Rosberg 1’31.397
Row 4 7. Nico Hulkenberg 1’31.644
8. Fernando Alonso 1’31.665
Row 5 9. Kimi Raikkonen 1’31.684
10. Jenson Button 1’31.827
Row 6 11. Sergio Perez 1’31.989
12. Paul di Resta 1’31.992
Force India
Row 7 13. Valtteri Bottas 1’32.013
14. Esteban Gutierrez 1’32.063
Row 8 15. Pastor Maldonado 1’32.093
16. Daniel Ricciardo 1’32.485
Toro Rosso
Row 9 17. Jean-Eric Vergne 1’33.357
Toro Rosso
18. Max Chilton 1’34.32
Row 10 19. Giedo van der Garde 1’34.879
20. Charles Pic* 1’34.556
Row 11 21. Jules Bianchi* 1’34.958
22. Adrian Sutil** 1’32.89
Force India

*Ten-place penalty for incurring three reprimands during the season
**Five-place penalty for gearbox change

2013 Japanese Grand Prix

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Image ?é?ź Red Bull/Getty

126 comments on “2013 Japanese Grand Prix grid”

  1. Great effort by Mark – he hasn’t lost his speed then!

    And who said Vettel doesn’t have KERS problems? :P

    1. Well almost everyone (Except F1Fanatic where people are generally rational) turn a blind eye whenever Vettel gets mechanical issues but treat it like the apocalypse when they happen to Webber just out of sheer bias. That aside, it’s about time Webber actually beat Vettel this season (Even if Vettel was disadvantaged).

    2. The thing to see is the start from Mark. Can he keep ahead of Vettel?

      1. @seahorse it didn’t happen for him last year (his start was fairly poor) but we’ll see – it’s very temperamental, but maybe he’ll have his head in the game since he’s on pole now!

        1. As is the case this season too. Mark has been sliding down the grid at start on most occasions. Let’s see how he goes.

    3. I think you are obsessed @vettel1 and, the fact is Mark has a lot more issues with his car if to compare against his team mate. Could you just let this be about Mark and his superb lap?

      1. @zicasso perhaps the “:P” wasn’t clear enough. I’ll put it in bold.


      2. @zicasso I think you are, @vettel1 sometimes you take it too far in justifying Vettel too much, he does not need it. Also I can understand you are all of 15years of age, it takes time to get the understanding and maturity

        1. Edit: @zicasso I think you are right

        2. @noob do I really need to put the “:P” in bold again? This is distressing…


          1. @vettel1 Try italics, maybe?

          2. @bforth I’d hoped I wouldn’t have to resort to that! ;)

        3. 15years of age, it takes time to…

          While Mr. Jacobson does get a bit overenthusiastic at times (but he is definitely not the only one), I think this was uncalled for here. He did indicate clearly that he is jokingly referring to the “who’s less lucky” controversy. I found it funny, and I am approaching 40 (from the wrong side :-)).

          1. @ph teenage hormones ;)

            The saddening part is that this:

            Great effort by Mark – he hasn’t lost his speed then!

            …was completely ignored by all bar @seahorse and yourself! At least you understood the joke, so thank you :)

        4. I think you, with your user name “F1 Noob” need to cut back with your opinions and stop picking on people 15 years of age (if they are or not), because none of your opinions I have read have been very “mature age” compared to 15 years old, if that is how you see yourself. This is maybe where Keith should come in and edit… I have visited this forum for about 5 years, on and off commentating, but I haven’t seen such immature commentary as this “noob” taking swipes personally at others.

      3. @zicasso

        Mark has a lot more issues with his car if to compare against his team mate

        No he doesn’t:

        Vettel, Webber and reliability at Red Bull

        1. @keithcollantine I know this is a general mis-conception with Mark’s issues and the conspiracy against him. Redbull (infact any team) would never resort to such tactics as there is always the WCC. Vettel has had his share of mis-fortune, most notably Silverstone. That link of yours is really an eye opener.

    4. He didn’t on the lap that counted :)

    5. KERS curse passed on to Seb here

    6. He still avoided problems like always actually. He had a Kers problem but it was fixed on his second lap.

  2. I’m surprised that both Alonso and Raikkonen got schooled by their teammates today.

    1. @kingshark all the top dogs bar Hamilton were out-qualified! I know at least the Red Bull pair are running slightly different set-ups however, so perhaps we’ll be seeing a power shift in the race?

      1. I haven’t seen speed trap figures yet but I think there setup would be quite similar. Difference probably mostly due to Vettel’s KERS failure.

        1. @mike-dee Webber is running a skinnier rear wing, I think the difference was 5km/h if I recall correctly.

          1. Could the speed difference not be due to KERS failure as well or would the speed be at the top end anyway irrespective of whether using KERS or not?

          2. @mike-dee I’m not sure, KERS is an acceleration tool, but maybe they’re only glancing off the limiter in the DRS zone – Suzuka doesn’t have very long straights! So the true difference might not be as much as that, absolutely.

      2. and Hamilton only just beat rosberg (in time) – his 3rd position time was so close… I think he benefitted from going last and track improvement.

    2. Perhaps this pointing towardsa Grosjean-Massa pairing at Lotus next season? However, it was an interesting qualifying session – had a quite a lot of surprises and yet again Hulk is ahead of Alonso. Will we see a repeat of Korea?

      1. Personally, I still think HĂŒlkenberg would be a better choice as he is a much more long-term solution. Massa to Sauber seems more likely.

        1. I hope to see HĂŒlkenberg at Lotus especially considering Eric’s recent interview mentioning about the driver weight. But nothing is guaranteed in F1, right?

    3. I’m not … Grosjean outqualified Raikkonen a lot last year and Massa outqualified Alonso at the last races of 2012.

      I think that a line-up with two relatively weak qualifiers (compared to Lewis or Seb for example) is a bad thing for Ferrari next year. Don’t you think HĂŒlkenberg would be faster on one lap?

      1. I think you are just disrespecting Massa and Grosjean’s ability, they are both very fast if not consistent (though the consistency is finally there for Grosjean in qualifying.

  3. Top Job Lewis, putting that dog of a car on 3rd…

    1. Eh? If there’s something the Mercedes has that is excellent is its qualifying pace.

    2. Calling the Mercedes a dog of a car is quite remarkable and even more considering that the Mercedes was quite a long time the fastest car in qualifying – now it’s 2nd force.

      The likes of HĂŒlkenberg would like to drive that “dog of car”. :P

    3. @xenomorph91 @silence
      But Lewis is the fastest driver in F1, and the results reflect Lewis’s skill not the car. The only person who depends on the car for performance is Vettel, right.
      Top job Lewis

      1. @noob it’s still far, far from a dog of a car. Making that claim is laughable.

        1. @vettel1 So Lewis is in a superior car? I thought he was outright fast and can put any car on pole or Top 3

          1. @noob he is in a superior car to Chilton, Bianchi, van der Garde, Pic, Maldonado, Bottas, Ricciardo, Vergne, Sutil, Di Resta, HĂŒlkenberg, Guitierrez, Perez, Button, Alonso, Massa, RĂ€ikkönen and Grosjean.

            Again, how is he in an “inferior car”?

          2. Exactly as @xenomorph91 & @vettel1 say, Mercedes is second fastest on the grid after Red Bull. So it’s no way a dog of a car nor an inferior car @noob

          3. @noob I do not believe anyone has ever made that claim. You can only ever really put the fastest car on pole, unless the fastest car has rubbish drivers in it (which Red Bull does not), or they under perform. Quit yo’ Hamilton hating boy.

      2. @noob Ha, I didn’t get the sarcasm the first time. You got me there, well done :-)

    4. I don’t think the Mercedes is a dog car for 1 lap action.

    5. I would praise Grosjean, putting a weak-qualifying Lotus fourth!

    6. I think the only cars which count as a “dog of a car” are the two new teams plus whatever Alonso is driving at the time.

    7. putting that dog of a car on 3rd

      You misspelt ‘greyhound’ :-P

    8. Lewis has never driven a true dog of a car. You cannot compare the 2009 Mclaren etc with a Caterham or Marrusia cos they are dogs of cars hence the reason they are backmarkers.

  4. Hopefully, no penalty for Webber because he impeded Perez earlier. Hamilton did a good job to get behind the 2 Blue cars. Grosjean may be to watch in the race. And, Webber needs a good start to maintain the lead to Vettel.

    1. @krichelle I doubt it, Perez was on a cool-down lap and he himself has said that he doesn’t feel he was impeded.

    2. I doubt it as well but Webber was lucky – had Perez gone onto another hot lap, it would definitely have been a penalty. But maybe Red Bull somehow knew that Perez would not do another run?

  5. with how rubbish webber’s starts are vettel will likely be leading into turn 1 anyway.

    1. Not sure, P1 and P3 have more grip than P2 & P4 I think. Vettel will probably have to defend against Hamilton and Massa.

  6. And Sebastian Vettel leads the Japan Grand Prix at Turn 1.

  7. Can someone explain to me why Sutil is last even though he has a 5-place grid penalty, whereas Pic and Bianchi have a 10-plave one?

    1. There are no places further than 22nd. Meaning that the driver who gets a penalty after another driver’s penalty will end up behind him on the grid

    2. Because I believe that since Pic and Bianchi got their penalties first so it automatically moves them fist and Sutil gets a 5 place thus moving him last and moving the back 2 up 2

    3. It’s because the penalties are applied in the order they were issued… Pic and Bianchi go their penatlies before Sutil did ..

      1. @puneethvb

        It’s because the penalties are applied in the order they were issued
 Pic and Bianchi go their penatlies before Sutil did


    4. Oh Ok then. Thanks for clarifying

    5. because these rules of applying multiple penalties are stupid. I will volunteer to the FIA to come up with a better system.

    6. This is downright stupidity… What is the purpose then of penalties for Bianchi if that helps in gaining a grid position, not losing it

      1. According to Force India’s Official Facebook page, they say Adrian’s starting P20.

      2. @noob it doesn’t, though. Sutil’s penalty does. You can’t simply re-jig the system “in the interests of fairness” any time multiple drivers get penalties, otherwise it’d just become ludicrously complicated. Changing the system may also result in the other drivers gaining an advantage (or rather for more appropriate use of words not being penalised as much) – it simply wouldn’t work.

    7. @nickf12013 @noob The official F1 website has Pic and Bianchi behind Sutil on the provisional grid, and it does mind the penalties. Sutil should be starting P20.

      1. @bforth @noob They’ve got it wrong. Pic’s penalty is applied first, then Bianchi’s, then Sutil’s, which leaves Sutil last.

        1. …and I see they’ve changed it now.

          1. @keithcollantine I saw that as well. Thanks for clearing it up all the same.

  8. Great lap mark, just hold off vettel into turn 1. Lotus, hurry up and sign hulkenburg. And Alonso better be careful saying that kimi is no faster than massa…(even if grosjean did beat kimi again) still think we’ll see Kimi on the podium somehow

    1. *HĂŒlkenberg

  9. will vettel “multi 21” in this race?

    1. @kcarrey It will be great to see if he was really sorry as he said on the Malaysian podium ceremony

      1. @noob he later retracted his apologies

        1. @sunlounger

          he later retracted his apologies

          Yah, after the high dose of PR and MSC brainwashing

        2. Actually, he didn’t. He apologised for disobeying team orders, not for winning the race, a point reinforced by his comments in China.

    2. @kcarrey why would it be necessary? Red Bull have said themselves: no more team orders, fastest guy wins.

      1. @vettel1

        Red Bull have said themselves: no more team orders

        When did they do that?

        1. After Malaysia, duh.

        2. @noob after Malaysia. Convenient how you’ve omitted to remember that.

          1. @vettel1 @ialtair

            Links please..

            Also if Vettel & Webber does a good clean race, then its a chance to redeem themselves out of the ‘Multi-21’ situation forever..

          2. @noob I like how you don’t have to provide links to back up your claims, but here regardless, and I do recall seeing somewhere that Horner again repeated that they won’t be using team orders today, which I will have a look for.

      2. with his current 77 points gap, that win back in Malaysia seemed so risky and unwarranted.

        1. @kcarrey hindsight’s a wonderful thing. Considering he won the 2012 title by 3 points, he absolutely had to take every point he could get in the circumstances.

          The funniest bit for me was the guilt-trip that some played: “Webber didn’t know Vettel would try to overtake”. Pah!

      3. @vettel1 Mark , come in this lap . Box box box . Ah, now vettel’s got the lead , perfect .

        1. @hamilfan I think you have put it rightly my friend, Redbull would not give over the team orders, but they would play this above strategy of yours, it worked brilliantly in Germany and Korea

          1. Vettel’s Korea win having nothing to do with getting pole position and leading every lap then?

    3. I don’t think he needs a multi 21 at all.

      1. @ialtair Vettel needs a dose of Multi-21 and trust me if it does happen, and Vettel accepts it graciously (no team orders please, just pure racing), the booing will stop (not that I expect booing from Suzuka fans)

        1. Not that there will be booing in Japan.

          The Japanese loves Sebastian Vettel more than others.

          Crowd speaks for itself.

  10. Big mistake by RBR to sign Ricchardio, rookie error in Singapore, poor qualifying in Suzuka

    1. The mistake he made in Singapore was not a rookie mistake, Many experienced drivers including Webber have done the same in the past.

      As to today, The STR hasn’t looked that good on this track all weekend & he was ahead of JEV when he suffered his fire.
      Also consider that Ricciardo only got 1 lap at the end of q2 as the team checked over his car after JEV’s brake fire.

      1. I consider Ricchardio as still a rookie

        1. He can’t be a rookie he’s been racing F1 for two years. he still has more to learn , but there is always more to learn.

        2. @noob What’s with the extra ‘h’ in his name? :P

          Also, it’s his second season, so he’s not a rookie. And claiming it’s a mistake to sign someone because of one bad result (qualifying today does not count as he beat JEV, plus the STR was bad today meaning they would never have qualified high), is farcical. We wont know until he’s actually there.

          1. @philereid

            What’s with the extra ‘h’ in his name? :P

            Haven’t you heard Alonso pronouncing his name, also I was told by someone here in F1F, that Riccardio is actually an Italian and the correct way to pronounce it is with an ‘h’

          2. @noob Eh, but his name is spelled how it is, regardless of how it’s pronounced :P

          3. @noob – if you wanna be precise his name is Ricciardo not Riccardio :) – but you’re right in Italy they’d pronounce is like the English rich -ardo

  11. Can anyone clarify whether Vettels’ consecutive laps in the lead streak will continue if he overtakes Webber on the first lap?

    1. Yes, he will have that consecutive streak so long as Webber don’t cross the line first at the end of Lap 1.

    2. @sunlounger as long as he crosses the start-finish line in P1, it will continue. So his best opportunity to maintain that is to jump him at the start!

    3. yes it will continue, the car the finishes the lap first is the car that leads

    4. @sunlounger The bigger question is, will Vettel win the WDC here and equal Ascari’s record of most wins in a season

    5. Thanks everyone! I was confused whether the start line at the beginning of the race falls under the ‘end of the lap’ rule.

  12. Looking back to fp1, The Mercedes suffered from horrendous degredation on the options. Lewis did 7 laps & dropped off by 4-5 seconds while both Red Bulls, The Lotus & Ferrari’s remained fairly consistent losing only 1-2 seconds over between 13-15 laps on the options.

  13. MARK WIBBA! I really hope he can get a final win. Good job by Massa. Di Resta 6 tenths faster than his team mate in Q1, 9 tenths in Q2. Hopefully that will help him keep his seat. Credit to Chilton, I’m not a fan, but that was a good job.

  14. Good job Mark…. I hope he can keep the lead after T1 tomorrow.. …What happened to Alonso though, did he make a mistake in his last run? he’s 3 tenths off Massa…

    1. @puneethvb

      What happened to Alonso though

      He is losing it

      1. @noob

        That’s a bold calim to say the least… or maybe you so dearly want Alonso to lose it that you wont leave any opportunity to have a dig at him..:)

        1. @puneethvb not a chance Alonso is “losing it”. Massa’s had the advantage in qualifying of late absolutely, but that never was where he is strong. I fully expect him (in normal conditions) to pass Massa quite comfortably in the race!

      2. @nood

        He is losing it

        That’s what people said after Spa qualifying. Never count out on Alonso delivering a monster drive when you least expect it.

        IMO, while he may not be the fastest over one lap, Alonso is still the king of racecraft and wheel-to-wheel racing.

        1. @kingshark

          That’s what people said after Spa qualifying

          I never base my statements for Alonso on qualifying. The reason I said are numeours:

          1. His race in Korea, he did not look his usual self
          2. He has realised the chances of his WDC are slimmer than last year
          3. No support from F.Massa
          4. Coming of Kimi
          5. Failure of Ferrari to improve the car
          6. *This is purely speculation* Maybe he has got a hint that 2014 isn’t going to be good either, that Ferrari might not have a good engine and that carrot from McLaren looks tempting to him.

          1. @noob
            1. That’s a one-off, and not enough to judge (Alonso or any other).
            2. That’s irrelevant.
            3. Also irrelevant.
            4. Also irrelevant.
            5. Also irrelevant.
            6. You see the pattern here.

  15. @keithcollantaine Sutil is classified 17th in the provisional grid on

  16. Well Vettel had no kers in Q1 and Q3. guess who was on top in Q2 when kers worked.

  17. Well that’s blown my prediction lol.

    Interesting to see Vettel with a huge power slide when Kers wasn’t working, while Webber appeared to have massive traction.

  18. Good job by Hulkenberg again, keeping a Ferrari, a Lotus and both McLarens behind him!

  19. Good qualifying, I think Mark was spot on when he said Vettel’s issues meant this was a “hollow” pole position. If Webber manages to hold on to the lead through the first corner, I think we’re in for a fantastic battle for the lead, one that will hopefully be fought on track. If everything goes according to plan, this could really be a grande finale!

    1. Could be 2 RedBulls in a gravel trap!

    2. @andae23 I hope red bull don’t do some clever tactics in the pit stops to ensure their No 1 driver comes out first.

      1. The start is enough.

      2. @hamilfan Let’s hope Red Bull recognizes the drivers’ title has already been decided, so they would let their drivers race. If the conspiracy theories were correct after all, then Red Bull did something similar in Brazil at the end of 2011.

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