Vettel “probably the best we’ve had” – Ecclestone

F1 Fanatic Round-up

Sebastian Vettel, Bernie Ecclestone, Monza, 2011In the round-up: Bernie Ecclestone sings Sebastian Vettel’s praises.

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Your daily digest of F1 news, views, features and more.

Ecclestone Says Vettel?s F1 Dominance Isn?t Hurting TV Ratings (Bloomberg)

“It?s difficult to be sure who is the best. People don?t know how many titles [Ayrton] Senna would have won, but Vettel is probably the best we?ve had. People complain about him winning everything but the racing is good.”

Sunday’s Indian GP under threat of cancellation (The Telegraph)

“I don?t think it endangers the race in any way whatsoever.”

‘Financial trouble’ delaying Grosjean’s future (ESPN)

“Everything is open for the future, I feel good here but I think they are trying to solve the financial trouble and it puts everything else on the back foot.”

Kvyat in Formula One on talent alone, says Horner (Reuters)

“The kid’s very quick. He’s definitely very quick, very naturally talented. He certainly has a lot to learn, he’s got a steep learning curve, but 100 percent he’s there on talent.”

McLaren to try radical set-up (Autosport)

“Here I have a set-up on my car that is completely different to any other race we have had the last couple of years – just to see where we are. It might help us next year.”

Pastor Maldonado, Williams, Melbourne, 2013Maldonado coy over 2014 plans (Sky)

“That money is not free, the drivers need to pay for that money, it’s current exchange. There is a programme in Venezuela for sport, education, care and so many other things. You can change money [at a] lower price and what I heard is that some drivers were changing money on preference price and then they were selling them on the second market.”

Interview with Mercedes’ Ross Brawn (F1)

“Next year we?ve got a great car. We are excited over the car that we are doing – it is such an exciting opportunity. You will see a big disparity between teams next year for the first time in a long time.”

Red Bull’s front floor secret unlocks huge potential (BBC)

“If Red Bull have found a way to lift the ‘tea tray’ away from the track as it gets hot, that will enable them to run a lower front ride-height at low speeds, and will mean a more constant gap from the ‘tea tray’ to the ground through a wider range of vehicle speeds.”

McLaren move drivers out of mosquito-infested hotel… but rest of staff are sent back despite problems of last year (Daily Mail)

“Martin Whitmarsh has moved himself and his McLaren drivers out of the hotel plagued by mosquitoes during last year?s Indian Grand Prix ? yet has sent most of his staff back there for Sunday?s race.”

The pros and cons of social media (MotorSport)

Alan Jones had had a bad day, and as I walked to the car park with him and Frank Williams he gave vent to his feelings, not least about Goodyear, who had recently made a mid-season return to F1 after a few months away, and in his opinion were falling short. ‘Please don?t say anything about Goodyear, Nige,’ Frank murmured, but Alan would have nothing of it. ‘No!’ he yelled, hurling his briefcase ?ǣ from some distance away ?ǣ into their car?s open boot. ‘Bloody write it! If you do, something might get done about it…'”

Indian Grand Prix Betting: Are you brave enough to bet against Vettel? (Unibet)

My Indian Grand Prix preview for Unibet.

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Comment of the day

AldoG cheers Mark Webber’s belief that “you can have what cars you want but you?ve still got the best drivers out there then that?s the most important thing”:

I would carve this on marble. A couple of days ago I saw a picture of Lewis Hamilton and Timo Glock after Glock won a race somewhere, and I wrote here that it makes me feel very sad to see great drivers everywhere while at F1 maybe one third of the camp or more is made of mediocre ones.

Webber’s diagnosis (of teams being in increasing need of drivers who bring the cash) is, in my honest opinion, spot on. And that is what makes me think if F1 is really the top racing level any more.
AldoG

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On this day in F1

Stuart Lewis-Evans died 55 years ago today, having succumbed to the injuries he sustained in a fiery crash at the Moroccan Grand Prix a few days earlier.

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92 comments on Vettel “probably the best we’ve had” – Ecclestone

  1. aka_robyn said on 25th October 2013, 0:03

    Bernie sure does enjoy stirring up ****!

    • Chris (@tophercheese21) said on 25th October 2013, 1:07

      No I think Vettel is just the long lost son he never had. Haha
      Coincidentally, Vettel is also the long lost son of Helmut Marko.

    • bull mello (@bullmello) said on 25th October 2013, 1:16

      Well, it certainly serves Bernie’s agenda to say the best is now, rather than 20, 30, 40 years ago.

      Of course, Bernie still leaves himself a bit of wiggle room.

      …but Vettel is probably the best we’ve had…

    • Bernie, himself, wins every time a race starts.

      The FOM, FOG, FOWT, CVC rights are killing the sport bit by bit, killing the teams (massive losses), and scaring the fans.

      And Bernie is still happy, like he doesn’t see where to future of F1 goes: into a rich Field A and a poor or customer Field B, losing teams one after the other…

    • JCost (@jcost) said on 25th October 2013, 7:00

      And I’ve seen rating stats that contradict his words….

  2. TheBass (@) said on 25th October 2013, 0:14

    Coming from Ecclestone it does sound terribly insincere. And Vettel has still a way to go to be close to be considered the best ever.

    • OmarR-Pepper (@omarr-pepper) said on 25th October 2013, 0:19

      @silence that way to go you mention is becoming closer and closer. The other day I commented about “what if he appears with a helmet showing 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013?” Somebody told me “4WDC is still not a record compared to 7WDC Schum”. But IT is a record. Remember nobody has won his first 4 titles in a row.
      I agree Alonso was superb last year. But that superb driver, nowadays, is Vettel. He makes the rest look like rookies, when we know how good his rivals are actually. I think that, even in the case the 2014 RB results being a McLaren 2013, he will soon find the best possible car. Which team wouldn’t be eager to hire him if he declares a free agent? I guess that even some contracts would be broken and paid (like Kimi 2010) to make room for him.

      • Trido (@trido) said on 25th October 2013, 0:38

        I’m sorry but I have to disagree. Vettel has been so good because the car is so good. When he is on the back foot like he was in Suzuka (Or Brazil last year), you can see how ragged he still is when he has to try hard. At a few times in the past few seasons, he has either only just been ahead of behind on points at the midway point, but Red Bulls strength always leads to a string of victories in the mid to later portions that puts him over the top. You can compare him to Webber, but it isn’t a fair comparison. The bias to Vettel has been well known for some time. Schumi was so successful in the early 2000’s because Ferrari were totally built up around him and the car was designed with him in mind.

        Vettel is a great driver, but he is no master yet. He still has a hell of a lot of growing up to do.

        • Loup Garou (@loup-garou) said on 25th October 2013, 16:28

          Vettel has good car but do did most of the past drivers when they won their championships. MJ is right when he says that in most sports, the past is looked at with rose tinted glasses. Just go back and do some research on the conditions and cars that Fangio raced with and then you’ll relaise what car dominance was really like. When he drove for Mercedes, his car was reportedly often 2 seonds faster per lap than the competition.

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 25th October 2013, 21:27

          @trido

          Vettel has been so good because the car is so good.

          Not true. Drivers aren’t good because a car is good. They are good because they get the most out of what they’re given. Vettel has been good in a mediocre Toro Rosso STR2/3. He has been good in a moderately strong RB5. He has been good in a championship winning RB9. The results in a statistical context change, of course, but the top performer is always there.

          When he is on the back foot like he was in Suzuka (Or Brazil last year), you can see how ragged he still is when he has to try hard.

          Um, he won in Suzuka, making a 2 stopper work when his teammate couldn’t, and had to fight from 21st with a damaged car to finish 6th in Interlagos, while getting the points for the championship on that day?

          At a few times in the past few seasons, he has either only just been ahead of behind on points at the midway point, but Red Bulls strength always leads to a string of victories in the mid to later portions that puts him over the top.

          What point are you making here, regarding midseason performance?

          You can compare him to Webber, but it isn’t a fair comparison. The bias to Vettel has been well known for some time.

          It is a fair comparison. Webber’s performance was never going to stay near SV’s, especially considering he was 21-22 in 2009 (when he still beat him).

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 25th October 2013, 21:40

          @trido

          Vettel has been so good because the car is so good.

          Not true. Drivers aren’t good because a car is good. They are good because they get the most out of what they’re given. Vettel has been good in a mediocre Toro Rosso STR2/3. He has been good in a moderately strong RB5. He has been good in a championship winning RB9. The results in a statistical context change, of course, but the top performer is always there.

          When he is on the back foot like he was in Suzuka (Or Brazil last year), you can see how ragged he still is when he has to try hard.

          Um, he won in Suzuka, making a 2 stopper work when his teammate couldn’t, and had to fight from 21st with a damaged car to finish 6th in Interlagos, while getting the points for the championship on that day?

          At a few times in the past few seasons, he has either only just been ahead of behind on points at the midway point, but Red Bulls strength always leads to a string of victories in the mid to later portions that puts him over the top.

          What point are you making here, regarding midseason performance?

          You can compare him to Webber, but it isn’t a fair comparison. The b1a5 to Vettel has been well known for some time.

          It is a fair comparison. Webber’s performance was never going to stay near SV’s, especially considering he was 21-22 in 2009 (when he still beat him).

      • John H (@john-h) said on 25th October 2013, 7:07

        It doesn’t matter how many championships he wins at one team, unless he proves himself somewhere else (not influenced by Marko et al.) he won’t be considered ‘the best’.

        Records do not mean everything as history tells us.

        • I don’t get that @john-h. Senna didn’t win a title at any other team, yet he is often considered the best ever (by me also). As is the case with Jim Clark.

          Indeed also, Hamilton only moved teams this season: does that mean he was only good before?

          I can see why the argument arises and personally I would like to see him move teams, but it’s by no means a necessity for greatness IMO.

          • John H (@john-h) said on 25th October 2013, 8:26

            Senna proved himself in a Toleman and at Lotus. It’s not about whether he won championships with them.

            Senna also proved himself against a quality teammate such as Prost, something Vettel has never done.

            Had Kimi gone to RBR and vettel beat him, perhaps he would be up there with Senna, but not at the moment. Webber or Riciardo are not exactly Alain Prost.

          • TheBass (@) said on 25th October 2013, 12:13

            Weak argument debunked many time already. About time to give it a rest.

        • Bob (@bobthevulcan) said on 25th October 2013, 8:44

          It’s worth noting that even before winning in a Toro Rosso, Vettel was setting records at BMW Sauber – as third driver in 2006, he twice set fastest times in practice sessions, and as race driver in 2007, became the youngest driver to score a point.

          • Skett (@skett) said on 25th October 2013, 9:31

            A third driver setting fastest laps in free practice doesn’t mean anything, Anthony Davidson regularaly used to when he was the BAR third driver, and Bottas was consistently beating the fastest times of the two Williams drivers last year.

        • David not Coulthard (@) said on 25th October 2013, 13:56

          unless he proves himself somewhere else

          Err…..Jackie Stewart and Tyrrell, anyone?

          Senna proved himself in a Toleman and at Lotus.
          what about this one (among others – China 2007 wasn’t too bad, and beating a 4-time ChampCar champion as a newcomer to the pinnacle of something wasn’t either)? Is Vettel really that bad?

          It’s worth noting that even before winning in a Toro Rosso, Vettel was setting records at BMW Sauber

          As for that one…,.I’m pretty sure Seb was driving with new engines in the practice sessions, or something like that. I agree with @skett on that one.

      • palmerstoneroad (@palmerstoneroad) said on 25th October 2013, 13:27

        Are we sure Ecclestone was referring to Vettel and not Newey?
        To prove you are the best ever you have to win with 2 cars. And till now Vettel has won only with Newey’s car.

        Time to take nephews to the park for Uncle Bernie

  3. HoHum (@hohum) said on 25th October 2013, 0:19

    4 to 5 times more passes today than in the re-fueling era, let’s make it 5 to 6 by getting rid of mandatory pit-stops altogether.

  4. HoHum (@hohum) said on 25th October 2013, 0:21

    Bernie and Seb, 2 of a kind but Seb can drive.

  5. nackavich (@nackavich) said on 25th October 2013, 0:29

    Surely Bernie can’t even believe what comes out of his own mouth anymore?
    Sure Vettel is adaptable, and like Schumacher has worked hard to envelope the team around him to create a solid unit, but the best we’ve had??
    That’s just a little insulting.
    He’d be hard pressed to be the best driver on the grid at the moment (I’m talking Alonso) let alone the best the sport has seen. Sure he’s won championships, and his dominance of the past few seasons is obvious. But out of all the roosters of every era (Fangio, Clark, Prost, Senna, Schumacher) where does he sit?
    Talented? Yes. Quick? Yes. Adaptable? Yes. Better than most? Yes. But the best we’ve had? Time may tell, but not yet.

  6. Broom (@brum55) said on 25th October 2013, 0:41

    Yes, he is the greatest. We might as well stop watching as no one can beat him. He will every race from now until the end of time, from pole, by 6s, a gap he made in the first three laps and maintains because Rocky won’t allow him to go any faster. Then the shriek, then finally the pièce de résistance, the finger.

    Thanks for letting us know Bernie.

  7. Mach1 (@mach1) said on 25th October 2013, 0:47

    I remember Bernie being asked about Hamiltons future (on the grid by Brundle I think) after he won the 2008 championship (who was being seen/talked of as the next multi world champion prospect). He was quite clear that he did not want Hamilton to win again as he did not want another Schumacher type era of dominance….funny how opinions change…

    • celeste (@celeste) said on 25th October 2013, 1:07

      @mach1 can you quote please

      • Mach1 (@mach1) said on 25th October 2013, 1:19

        @celeste

        Wish I could but I can’t remember what grand prix and when. I am sure it was Brundle door-stepping him on the grid. It must have been post Hamiltons win…so maybe early in the 2009 season??
        I am sure i got the jist of what his said correct because i remember thinking is was a bit of a negative response to the prospect of Hamilton winning future f1 titles…I thought he would be more supportive a Brit…..so I remember being suprised at his response.
        If anyone can dig it out/find the interview…who knows…maybe i recalled it incorrectly….

        • celeste (@celeste) said on 25th October 2013, 1:29

          Ok, thank you anyway

        • Patrickl (@patrickl) said on 25th October 2013, 2:12

          2009 wasn’t really a good year for McLaren though. Especially the start.

          Besides, Ecclestone kept on whining about how Massa should have won the 2008 WDC and would easily win the 2009 WDC.

          Ecclestone has always been pretty negative about Hamilton, but I can’t remember him being afraid of any domination from Mclaren or Hamilton.

          • Mach1 (@mach1) said on 25th October 2013, 2:25

            hmm – I guess it could have been anyone of the grand prix from the end of 2007 – 2008 – maybe it was after hamilton nearly won the title in 2007 then…
            I vividly remember the interview – it was on a grid..it must have been Brundle…and Bernie defiantly intimated (or even said) he preferred Hamilton not to win back to back titles to avoid another period of boring f1
            bah this will bug me forever now….

          • Patrickl (@patrickl) said on 25th October 2013, 12:21

            Like Daniel says, perhaps it was on the Brazil 2007 grid. Hamilton looked pretty much to have that WDC in the bag. Until the poor start and the gear box jumping to neutral.

    • Daniel (@collettdumbletonhall) said on 25th October 2013, 7:34

      I’m pretty sure I remember him saying the same thing on the grid in Brazil 2007 too.

  8. HoHum (@hohum) said on 25th October 2013, 0:48

    Amazing what you might be able to do with a couple of Bi-metallic brackets.

  9. Psychotext said on 25th October 2013, 0:48

    People need to keep in mind that Bernie is a wind-up merchant. He takes great pleasuring in getting a reaction to the things he says.

    He’s basically a 90 year old internet troll.

    • Robbie said on 25th October 2013, 20:11

      Yup….a very rich one who knows that any debate, any controversy he or anyone else can stir up and cause fan reaction, equates to headlines and money in his bank accounts.

  10. bull mello (@bullmello) said on 25th October 2013, 1:11

    Clark was best.

    Yeah, there are statistics, but there are so many intangibles and then the inevitable comparisons that just don’t really work. So, among the best of the best, who is really the best is always going to be opinion.

    Clark was best.

    • Chris (@tophercheese21) said on 25th October 2013, 3:05

      Personally I think a strong case can be made that drivers from the early days would be demolished by the drivers today. This is because back then, drivers weren’t athletes, they may have been fitter than the general public, but they didn’t have the level of fitness and strength drivers have nowadays.

      The conditioning of drivers in current F1 is the best it’s ever been.

      It’s the same with just about every other sport.

      Tennis for example, people (my father included) think that Rod Laver is the greatest tennis player of all time. But, if he were in his prime, and used a racket that today’s players use, he would be beaten easily by the likes of Federer, Djokovic and Nadal, because he was no where near as conditioned or drilled as the players are today.

      I think people just tend to look on the past with rose tinted glasses.

      • bull mello (@bullmello) said on 25th October 2013, 3:48

        On the other hand, drivers in the past had nearly no driver aids, mechanical or technological assists, very little in the way of massive team and factory assistance; therefore had to rely almost entirely upon their own driving skills. Rather than an engineer in their ear telling them when to drink, they had to listen to motor noises for clues of power and fragilities, feel the wheel for vibrations, they had to listen to the tires for hints of wear or indications of tire pressure differences. They were literally driving by the seat of their pants and without a knack for it, an intangible talent and 6th sense of what was going on with their car, the track and all other conditions, they were lost.

        I don’t mean to make it sound like the age of when men were men or something like that and would agree that drivers in many cases are more fit athletes these days. I also don’t think any era is better than than another, just different. That’s why the era to era driver comparisons don’t work so well.

        So, I say Clark was best and to me he was. He set the benchmark for me at an early age and it’s hard to imagine any driver being better. It is a sentimental opinion, but without rose colored glasses. In Clark’s era of the 60s, when I was a young whippersnapper just getting in to F1, no doubt there were old timers then lamenting their perceived golden age of F1. I prefer to think that the best is yet to come and hope I’m here to see it.

        • HoHum (@hohum) said on 25th October 2013, 4:20

          +1, and you fogot to mention the 600 odd manual gearchanges.

        • maarten.f1 (@maarten-f1) said on 25th October 2013, 5:42

          @bullmello While I’ll agree with you that drivers nowadays are overmanaged, so to speak, I don’t think that’s a necessity. They are very much aware of what happens to the car, when something is wrong with it. And while Formula 1 cars are technological marvels, cars in lower Formulae aren’t, and they’ve all raced those as well. Put any of these drivers in a car from back in the day, give them a bit to get used to it, and they’ll be right on it.

          I would actually be inclined to believe it would be the other way around. I think it would be far easier to learn to drive a car on the limit that’s not so technically advanced than to drive a car on the limit that is technologically advanced. Just the amount of settings on the steering wheel is mind boggling.

          But like you said, it’s just different. So there’s no way to really compare it.

        • JCost (@jcost) said on 25th October 2013, 7:09

          It’s always gonna be a hard question to answer because F1 relies on technology and it is not static, one cannot blame a 2000’s driver because of his era but sure we cannot ignore the benefits of technology.

        • apsiloritis (@apsiloritis) said on 25th October 2013, 12:50

          So, I say Clark was best and to me he was. He set the benchmark for me at an early age and it’s hard to imagine any driver being better.

          +1

      • bull mello (@bullmello) said on 25th October 2013, 4:52

        And, I love Rod Laver and would have to say he was the best based on personality and spirit. On skills and tactics I would have to say the best was Bjorn Borg. :-)

      • nackavich (@nackavich) said on 25th October 2013, 4:53

        Fangio kept himself in shape, obviously to today’s standards, but he understood the importance of a healthy body. He watched his diet, barely drank, exercised regularly, and therefore had a cleaner/clearer mid to focus on racing.
        Today’s drivers are just the result of sports science. Natural ability is something that is not altered by whether the driver has been “groomed” to be a racing driver. I think that if Fangio or Clark were to compete in today’s ROC they’d be tough to beat.

      • Loup Garou (@loup-garou) said on 25th October 2013, 6:33

        Personally I think a strong case can be made that drivers from the early days would be demolished by the drivers today. This is because back then, drivers weren’t athletes, they may have been fitter than the general public, but they didn’t have the level of fitness and strength drivers have nowadays.

        The conditioning of drivers in current F1 is the best it’s ever been.

        It’s the same with just about every other sport.

        Tennis for example, people (my father included) think that Rod Laver is the greatest tennis player of all time. But, if he were in his prime, and used a racket that today’s players use, he would be beaten easily by the likes of Federer, Djokovic and Nadal, because he was no where near as conditioned or drilled as the players are today.

        I think people just tend to look on the past with rose tinted glasses.

        Totally agree. Speaking of F1, if somone like James Hunt, living the playboy life that he did, had come up against today’s drivers in similar equipment, most would have crushed him out of contention.

        One cannot take things like driver-aids as points of contention because like in every sport, F1 has natural progression. Look at the other side of the coin: someone like Fangio could get away with almost anything to get the best on the day: demand his teammates car, threaten his team boss to quit if he was not given what he wanted etc. Also, there might not have been driver aids in the past, but there were also very few binding rules that applied to all teams.

      • mantresx (@mantresx) said on 25th October 2013, 7:31

        If we were to put Fangio and Vettel in the same car today who would be quickest? Vettel, but if we put them in an old circuit with no barriers, it’s clear Fangio would be faster and wouldn’t kill himself trying.

        My point is, back then it wasn’t just about being the fastest, it was also about being fearless and making zero mistakes.
        Today a world champion is the quickest more consistent one, is not better or worse than before, the best man still wins, it’s just different.

        • Loup Garou (@loup-garou) said on 25th October 2013, 9:13

          Well said. A theoretically fair test would be if you put Fangio and Vettel in identical F1 cars somewhere between 1979 and 1982. Identical set of rules and both would be given some time to re-acclimatise themselves to the new conditions. The race will be held at a good F1 standard track where neither has raced before.

    • Alex Brown (@splittimes) said on 25th October 2013, 8:48

      Never understood the Clark thing until @keithcollantine highlighted the number of grand slams he achieved. If the range of abilities was broader back then, Clark was probably at the level that would see him competitive today.

  11. Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 25th October 2013, 2:08

    Vettel is definitely not as good as either Prost or Schumacher (the undisputed GOAT), although probably on par with Senna.

    • Patrickl (@patrickl) said on 25th October 2013, 2:13

      Yet Senna is better than both Prost and Schumacher. Odd.

    • Wonderduck (@wonderduck) said on 25th October 2013, 5:20

      Schumacher (the undisputed GOAT)

      I think you’ll find plenty of people who dispute that claim.

      • xbx-117 (@xbx-117) said on 25th October 2013, 6:45

        Can’t really dispute the fact that he has the most championships, and numbers aren’t based on opinion and/or rose-tinted nostalgia.

        • Red Andy (@red-andy) said on 25th October 2013, 7:17

          No, but there are many things that contribute to the numbers besides sheer talent. The quality of the equipment you’re given being one of the most obvious ones.

          • JCost (@jcost) said on 25th October 2013, 7:45

            Indeed @red-andy, I’m a Schumacher fan but my fave F1 adage still is “nobody wins a Formula 1 race in a Fiat Panda” :)

          • thorpedo (@thorpedo) said on 25th October 2013, 10:03

            @red-andy You must be kidding. When we are talking about Schumacher numbers mean nothing and everything he achieved was because of the team (car+politics). On the other hand, when we are talking about Vettel it is all about his talent and numbers mean everything. Those are double standards. What have Schumacher done to you besides spoiling many Sundays beating British drivers and British teams?

          • Red Andy (@red-andy) said on 25th October 2013, 10:22

            @thorpedo You clearly haven’t paid attention to my previous posts, if you’re accusing me of double standards. I’ve said before that despite his (soon to be) four world championships and general domination of the sport over the last few years, I don’t yet consider Vettel to be one of F1’s all-time greats. I do think Schumacher was, but it’s his achievements in the late 90s in mediocre Ferraris that are more impressive to me than his sweeping domination of the early 2000s.

            If we elevate the numbers above all else, to pick just one example, that means that Jacques Villeneuve was a better driver than his father. I don’t know many who know about the sport’s history that would argue that.

          • thorpedo (@thorpedo) said on 25th October 2013, 10:41

            I admit I wasnt paying attention to your comments @red-andy before and in that case I apologise for attacking you. In my opinion 1998 season was probably Schumis best. In a car that wasnt best, he showed amaying performances including the one in Hungary. Only when Vettel will prove himself in a less dominant car, he would have the opportunity to become one of the greats. Plus, I dont get one thing. When tyre regulations changed in 2003 everyone was talking (and many still do) about Ferrari politics and how they gained advantage of it. This year, when exactely the same thing happened, there is no constant mentioning about mid-season tyre change.

        • Broom (@brum55) said on 25th October 2013, 7:49

          F1 is so much more than numbers. I pity people who rank sport by numbers. Its as if the process of getting that result is irrelevant despite the fact it is the process which draws us into the sport in the first place. You might as well just turn up in time for the podium ceremony & quali interviews.

          • xbx-117 (@xbx-117) said on 25th October 2013, 8:10

            F1 is so much more than numbers, but this discussion isn’t. If the “best driver of all time” is not deciding purely on the number of championships they won, then it is just a bunch of opinions that will lead no where. Which is what these discussions always boil down to.

    • Todfod (@todfod) said on 25th October 2013, 7:12

      Schumacher (the undisputed GOAT)

      Dont make me laugh

      • BigAlex said on 25th October 2013, 9:56

        Schumacher came and couldn´t win a single race for Mercedes, some people will say because he didn´t drive a F1 for a while or he was older, but for me is just because he didn´t have a the same car great car he used to drive at Ferrari.
        My point: in the modern F1 times a great car makes a lot of difference, being a great driver isn´t enough. RD + Vettel are the best possible combination now. Just like that.

      • BigAlex said on 25th October 2013, 9:56

        Schumacher came back and couldn´t win a single race for Mercedes, some people will say because he didn´t drive a F1 for a while or he was older, but for me is just because he didn´t have a the same car great car he used to drive at Ferrari.
        My point: in the modern F1 times a great car makes a lot of difference, being a great driver isn´t enough. RD + Vettel are the best possible combination now. Just like that.

  12. mantresx (@mantresx) said on 25th October 2013, 2:59

    That interview with Brawn scared me, he’s basically saying: You think Red Bull is dominating now? Just wait and see what we’ll do next year.

    • HoHum (@hohum) said on 25th October 2013, 4:24

      are you feeling lucky punk ?

    • JCost (@jcost) said on 25th October 2013, 7:27

      Branw can’t really be sure of that, can he? Mercedes is putting a huge effort to build a good car but others are not fishing and doing their own ground work. My main concern for 2014 is another season with a dominant machine. However, we will have to wait until tests to have a clue and Australian GP to see the real picture.

      Mercedes does stand a chance of building the class of the field and if this happens and Mercedes becomes dominant I’d love to see how Lewis would react if ends up winning 15 out of 22 races
      :)

      • mantresx (@mantresx) said on 25th October 2013, 7:35

        @jcost And I’d love to see how Lewis reacts if Nico is also fighting for the championship, they’ve proven to be evenly matched so far.

        • JCost (@jcost) said on 25th October 2013, 7:52

          @mantresx
          Nico seems to nurse his tyres better but I think with less fragile tyres (what I expect to be the case in 2014) Lewis will beat him.

          Nevertheless we should bear in mind that Lewis was usually cool about Jenson’s challenge and he started his career in F1 paired with Fernando Alonso so that would not be anything new to him and it seems he can live with that, apparently better than Alonso or Vettel.

          • Mike (@mike) said on 25th October 2013, 10:46

            Gotta give it to Lewis on that one, he is one of the very few top drivers that not only can work with a competitive team mate, but is actually really good at being a team player.

      • Broom (@brum55) said on 25th October 2013, 7:51

        I’d love to see what Bernie says if Lewis can manage 3 years of dominance. Will he probably be the greatest?

  13. Krichelle (@krichelle) said on 25th October 2013, 5:52

    Hmm.. McLaren and the mosquito hotel. Wonder where did this come from? Wish I could read the whole story.

  14. MaroonJack (@maroonjack) said on 25th October 2013, 6:33

    So, McLaren abandons 2013 campaign to experiment with some radical solutions for 2014? Great! Go Sauber!

  15. Robert Richards said on 25th October 2013, 10:19

    Senna will always be the best racing driver of all time. Vettel is good, but only because of his car, if he had a worthy partner like Prost, Senna, Mansell, Hamilton, Alonso he would not last long. Vettel is over rated and the likes of Alonso, Hamilton and even Raikonnen would beat him. Looking forward to next year’s Ferrari pairing and hopefully Mercedes improves.
    If Senna was still alive Schumacher would never be WC 7 times, maybe only 1 or 2.

    • TheBass (@) said on 25th October 2013, 12:22

      This season, Vettel has undoubtedly driven better than Raikkonen, Hamilton and Alonso. Less mistakes, more constant performance, equal great qualifying and race pace.

      While one season doesn’t automatically make him better, it does show that he could beat them. It doesn’t hurt to look at the actual races every now and then instead of repeating the same biased statements over and over.

    • David not Coulthard (@) said on 25th October 2013, 14:19

      Vettel is good, but only because of his car, if he had a worthy partner like Prost, Senna, Mansell, Hamilton, Alonso he would not last long.

      Prove it. I can’t prove if it’s the other way around but it doesn’t change the fact that you can’t prove your view, either.

      If Senna was still alive Schumacher would never be WC 7 times, maybe only 1 or 2.

      I don’t think Senna would’ve had a career long enough to beat MSC 5 times. And I don’t think Senna would’ve stopped MSC from that Ferrari seat.

      He could’ve been champion in ’94 and ’95, but that would’ve meant that MSC manages 7-2 titles, not 2 titles.

      • Robbie said on 25th October 2013, 20:20

        Imho, if Senna had not died, Max and Bernie would not have felt the need to create a new chapter and a new icon in F1 by loading up MS with more advantages hand over fist than any driver has ever had before or since. So it is hard to say how it would have gone but I’m certainly convinced that MS and Senna would have been left alone to create the next chapter in F1 on the track, rather than the way it was created in a boardroom post-Senna and post ‘his era’. And therefore MS would not have nearly had the advantages he ended up having in order to compile the numbers he did, had Senna lived.

    • David-A (@david-a) said on 25th October 2013, 21:37

      Senna will always be the best racing driver of all time. Vettel is good, but only because of his car

      Take the Mclaren cars away from “the best racing driver of all time”, and he only records a few wins in reasonably competitive Lotuses.

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