Switching teams wouldn’t win over doubters – Vettel

F1 Fanatic Round-up

Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, Yas Marina, 2013In the round-up: Sebastian Vettel doubts moving to another team would convince more people of his place amount F1’s greats.


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Sebastian Vettel dismisses need to leave Red Bull to prove F1 greatness (The Mirror)

“Even if I go to another team I will still have people who doubt or don’t like who I am and what I do.”

Vettel not satisfied with four titles (BBC)

“I’m ambitious and I want to win, and if there is a chance to win I want to take it.”

Business Unusual (Red Bull)

“His official duties were a press conference and a photo session but really the reason for coming was to say thank you to everybody who’s worked very hard to build the car that’s just won seven races on the bounce. Most people working for the team never go to a race. In fact many of them rarely see daylight (especially at this time of year) because the schedule of delivering new parts and improving the car every single week is flat out vicious. Seb doesn’t get to say hello during the normal course of events.”

Bernie Ecclestone kept Gribkowsky payment secret from F1 board (FT)

“Asked by Philip Marshall QC, for Constantin Medien, why he had not revealed the payments to the F1 board, Mr Ecclestone said: ‘I didn?t need to tell them. I told them I didn?t know anything about the matter…'”

Ecclestone trial: payment was ‘insurance policy’ (The Telegraph)

“‘What I paid [Gribkowsky] was a very small amount, what I call an insurance policy,’ Ecclestone told a hearing at the High Court in London, calling it ‘quite a cheap insurance policy’.”

Pirelli: Nothing wrong with F1 tyres (CNN)

“It was not because of tyres – [Fernando Alonso] wasn’t able to win for a number of reasons. If they didn’t use the tyres properly, it’s not our fault.”

Talking tyres (F1)

Pirelli motorsport director Paul Hembery: “We know that we need to make compounds more mechanically robust, but of course we can?t go to the extreme where there is no grip. It will need a delicate balance.”

Ferrari hails simulator progress (Autosport)

Pat Fry: “Pedro [de la Rosa] has made a great contribution to the efforts we have made in that area and I think things have come on quite a lot.”

Calendar chatter (Crash)

“Few expect the New Jersey event to ever take place, appealing though it is as a concept. Having been scheduled and then dropped for the past two years, it is looking ever less likely that the combination of lack of funding, piles of red tape, and necessary construction work are obstacles that will ever be overcome.”

Old dog, new tricks (Sky)

“In the days of more robust tyres, Webber was a master at maximising the braking grip and he remains slightly faster than Vettel through the high speed bends – a point that Vettel himself acknowledges. But Webber’s all-out aggressive driving style has been punished hard by the more subtle requirements of the Pirellis.”


Comment of the day

Was Adrian Newey’s claim about some teams being “lucky” the tyres suited them at the start of the season a fair point?

I?m inclined to fall in with Newey?s line of thought, I don?t think anyone knows these tyres well enough in advance to rely on anything more than luck for the early success they had. We?ve seen it each year with Pirelli, it takes the majority of teams many months after having tested and raced on them to get them under control. Yet we expect some teams were on top of them when they finalised their designs in December the previous year?

Maldonado?s win in Spain last year sums it up well enough for me, there?s a window of performance with the Pirellis that you can just stumble into and look like a genius for short periods of time, and I know they work hard, but there has to be some luck involved if you just plop straight into that window from the get go. I think that is all Adrian is saying.

From the forum

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On this day in F1

Ayrton Senna scored his 41st and final grand prix victory 20 years ago today.

It also marked the end of four-times world championship Alain Prost’s F1 career. Prost finished second to Senna and joined him on the podium with team mate Damon Hill in Adelaide.

Here’s the start of the race:


Image ?? Red Bull/Getty

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182 comments on Switching teams wouldn’t win over doubters – Vettel

  1. PJ (@pjtierney) said on 7th November 2013, 10:34

    Ayrton Senna won all of his championships in a single car, does that make him “not a great” as well?

  2. magon4 (@magon4) said on 7th November 2013, 10:47

    People measure Ayrton’s greatness by his performance in the Toleman 1984 (a bit like Toro Rosso 2008), by his performance with Lotus in one of the seasons where he shouldn’t be in the running for the championship, but was (fighting against Piquet, Mansell and Prost in better material), by him beating Prost in terms of speed (if not in terms of intelligence and tactics) and mostly by being the only driver to remotely attack the Williams in their era of dominance (THAT was dominance, RBR dominance in nothing compared to that).
    I don’t think that is enough to say he is number one.
    But what he did do is challenge for the championship with inferior material, something Alonso has also been able to do and Vettel hasn’t for lack of opportunity.
    But for him to actually SEEK that opportunity would be pretty poor judgement, wouldn’t it? It even would border arrogant behavior. Of the sort: “Take my winning car and I’ll take your Ferrari, say, and let’s see if I’m not better than you”.
    Again, Vettel is not about being better than others, he is about driving as fast as possible with the best possible car and winning. He likes the driving, not the “I’m better than you”.

    • TheBass (@) said on 7th November 2013, 19:24

      @magon4 It would also be extremely ungrateful to a team that has supported him his whole career and has giving him the best car on the grid, and the best team to boost.

      “You guys are amazing, but I’m leaving just because some people don’t think I’m the best”.

      I mean, I was disappointed by Hamilton leaving McLaren considering how much they had supported him over the years, but at least he had a reason, he didn’t felt he was getting the best possible car, and that’s a fair point. But leaving a team just because of some detractors is not.

  3. Jason (@jason12) said on 7th November 2013, 15:18

    Vettel has avoided real competition from the likes of Lewis joining RBR.

    So for him to make these sort of statements is useless coz we know he’s a COWARD.

    • TheBass (@) said on 7th November 2013, 19:20

      @jason12 Even if that were true (something we never got proof of, but people love repeating it like it was true), so what? All drivers try to put themselves in the best possible situation, and being the undisputed number one is the best possible situation.

      Hell, even Briatore said that Raikkonen joining Ferrari wasn’t a problem only because he wasn’t as good as Vettel or Hamilton. That’s how the world works.

    • Oletros (@oletros) said on 7th November 2013, 19:51

      You have missed the /sarcasm tag, don’t you?

  4. infernojim (@infernojim) said on 7th November 2013, 15:23

    I like the assumption from some people here, that any one who thinks that the jury is still even the slightest doubt as to Vettel’s greatness is a “doubter” or completely irrational, and that the natural assumption therefore is that if Vettel were to change teams and still win, they wouldn’t accept it.

    Sure, there will be some people that take that line, but actually the majority are just stating their opinions and I think it’s a perfectly valid suggestion to say that if Vettel moved elsewhere and won a championship it would cement his legend.

    Of course it is more impressive to win 5 championships with 2 different teams than it is to win 5 championships with 1 team. Let’s equate it to tennis, just as a reference. At what point does a person become a legend? When they’ve won grand slams on different surfaces. Until they do that they’re excellent players who are specialists on one particular surface. No one is saying they are rubbish, but when people look back through history there will always be that 1 negative against their name – “sure he won 8 grand slams, but he never won on clay / grass”. For example.

    If you transpose that to Vettel’s situation, and think of constructors as surfaces, then you can currently say, Vettel is a brilliant driver, who has dominated having found his perfect marriage with Red Bull. However, if that’s all he ever does, then people can turn around and will always be able to and say- “that’s true, but he never won with another team” (on another surface)

    Is this fair criticism? Well, that’s a matter of opinion. But let’s put it another way – is there anybody out there that thinks Vettel going elsewhere and winning another championship would make him a lesser champion? No, of course not. Therefore, objectively and completely non-emotionally speaking to win 6 championships with 2 different teams, would be more impressive than winning 6 with one team. And if you were to compare two identical champions who had the exact same number of wins, championships, podiums etc, but where driver 1 had won all his championships with one team, and driver 2 had won theirs with 2 different teams. Who would be regarded as stronger? Probably driver 2.

    I think Vettel is an exceptional driver, and for me, he already warrants a top 6 or 7 in history slot, but can I honestly turn around and say that moving to another team wouldn’t potentially increase his reputation further? Nope, and that’s why he’s wrong to suggest that no one would think any more of him if he did just that.

    The question is, why would Vettel want to take a risk of going to another good team, that’s currently not got Newey and a dominant car, when he can stay where he is, and keep on winning until someone starts beating him? And that problem is not Vettel’s, it’s his competitors.

    The people to blame for Vettel’s dominance, aren’t Vettel, or Newey, or Red Bull. It’s everyone else’s fault for not doing a good enough job. Hopefully next year, they’ll step up and give RBR a proper challenge.

    • aka_robyn said on 7th November 2013, 16:25

      (See comment just above yours for the type of fan many of us are referring to.)

    • Deb Luhi (@debeluhi) said on 8th November 2013, 0:43

      First, have you done a poll to see if the majority of the doubters will really change their mind if Vettel change the team?
      On the serious note, winning with a different team will certainly raise his profile but there is also winning against his teammates. Here he’s done good for now but people already started dismissing Ricciardo as a pupet, before even he had a chance to drive a RB car in a race.
      My point is that drivers don’t necessarily need to change a team to keep proving themselves, they need to prove themselves against their team-mates. However, that has already been denied to Vettel.

  5. molecole1 said on 7th November 2013, 15:58

    What frustrates me personally about this Vettel era, is that he is trouncing the most talented grid (in my opinion) ever assembled.
    Schumacher was great, but if we are brutally honest, did he ever really have a rival who matched him? Hakkinen perhaps. But he may only have been a one-time champion if Schuey hadn’t broken his leg in 99. Montoya? His brother Ralf? These guys were quick but I dont think they were world-beaters..
    Now Vettel….He is making mince-meat out of 4 world champions, who in the last four years have each had a race-winning car, and other multiple race winners. He is phenomenal. And although I hate to admit it (being an F1 fan of 20 years) he just might be “the greatest”.

    • Jono (@me262) said on 23rd November 2013, 12:50

      the fact that he is 3 seconds ahead of 2nd place by the end of lap 1 in just about every grand prix tells you one thing: that he is in a rocket ship – I mean I mean – Vettel is just amazing ;)

  6. George (@george) said on 7th November 2013, 18:15

    But Webber’s all-out aggressive driving style has been punished hard by the more subtle requirements of the Pirellis.

    Once again, it’s pretty funny that the guy with the ‘all out aggressive style’ is moving to endurance racing next year :P

  7. TheBass (@) said on 7th November 2013, 19:14

    Even if it win over the doubters, why should he do it? It’s a dangerous mindset to make massive, life-changing decisions like changing your employer based on the opinion of the rest, especially of a rest you don’t even know. Hell, even doing minor decisions based on that would be extremely immaturer, teenage-like.

    He’s clearly very happy in Red Bull, and clearly the team adores him (which is funny considering the picture of an egomaniac with no sense of team-spirit whatsoever that his detractors try so hard to sell, but that’s a different point), why would he give up all that? It’s beyond absurd to even suggest he should do that.

    If Vettel ever decides to leave Red Bull, it has to be for himself, not because of what somebody thinks of him. May it be the flair of driving for Ferrari, or the the relationship RB goes wrong, or he simply needs a change of air, it has to be for himself.

    The whole concept of stopping doing what makes you happy because of a bunch of people thinking less of you because of it is nonsensical.

  8. AlonsoWDC (@alonsowdc) said on 7th November 2013, 19:41

    Happy birthday to @Paul (who is myself, a username from a much earlier and younger F1F site).

  9. Ron (@rcorporon) said on 7th November 2013, 21:43

    IMO with 4 WDC’s he’s proven all he needs to (to this fan at least).

    As mentioned above the haters will always hate (and continue to devalue his wins by using ever increasingly silly yard sticks).

    Seb won in a Torro Rosso and has 4 WDC’s under his belt. ’nuff said.

  10. Nickpkr251 said on 8th November 2013, 6:30

    If he does change will not be to a midfield team, will be to best team available and win a few more, only chance to see Vettel in a not competitive car is next yr if RB get the rb10 wrong a la mclaren/williams but doubt it as RedBull is the richest team in formula 1

  11. but don’t you all think it is a bit coincedential that there are new gen cars coming next year, but Webber is leaving next year, he could’ve left in 2011 where he only won 1 or 2 races, or in 2010 where he was pipped at the final race by Seb, now, I’m not saying that Dan won’t succeed, for sure he will succeed, win races, fight for the championship, so will Seb seeing as he has 4 WCC under his belt already, but I find this whole thing to be a bit like Perez going to McLaren, and look what happened, his best result was 5th.

  12. Abdurahman (@) said on 8th November 2013, 9:26

    Mrec 6.9 is epic! I got to ride in a few when I was younger. One day, my dream ride the 500e!

  13. Marti said on 9th November 2013, 20:39

    What about Mclaren`s 3rd peddle – from years ago
    Where U operate the front & rear brakes independently

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