Alonso “gave up a little bit” – Ecclestone

F1 Fanatic Round-up

Fernando Alonso, Ferrari, Circuit of the Americas, 2013In the round-up: Bernie Ecclestone says he was disappointed Fernando Alonso didn’t give his all in 2013.

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Alonso gave up a little bit, says Ecclestone

Bernie Ecclestone: “I’ve been a little bit disappointed in Fernando because I’m a big supporter of him and of Ferrari. I thought he gave up a little bit which is proof that he was looking for another team.”

Ross Brawn admits he is open to offers from outside of Formula One after leaving Mercedes (The Mirror)

“Maybe around the summer time I’ll decide what’s happening, it is a sabbatical.”

Ross Brawn will return to Formula 1, says Niki Lauda (BBC)

“He will not go in pension [retirement]. This is clear. I think he will come back.”

Formula One future muddled by prospect of Concorde talks delay (City AM)

CVC chairman Donald Mackenzie: “Even now, after the latest contracts, which have been signed up to 2020, the first thing any new shareholder says to me: it?s not enough. Can?t we make it a longer period? We don?t want the uncertainty.”

Vettel: F1 cannot lose thrill factor (Autosport)

“I just hope that we are not going down from a power point of view. We will lose the revs which I think is a shame – because it is a new direction that we go into and a new technology.”

Valtteri Bottas, Williams, Shanghai, 2013Marussia held merger talks with Williams (ESPN)

“One of the discussions [Williams] had was with Marussia. They discussed it with Sauber as well.”

Independent study rates FIA governance below IOC and FIFA (David Ward and Team)

“An independent audit of the FIA?s governance system carried out by I Trust Sport shows that the FIA scores well in some areas but is also significantly failing in others, especially as regards financial transparency and reporting.”

Adrian Newey on 2014: “Mild panic and crisis management…” (Adam Cooper’s F1 Blog)

“Reliability could be a big issue, it?s far from clear how the three engine manufacturers will perform relative to each other. We?ve got the aerodynamic changes. So it is a complete clean start, unfortunately.”

Sir Jackie Stewart on leaving IMG and Formula One?s financial health (Sports Pro)

“They no longer are in Formula One Grand Prix racing. Mark [McCormark] always had good people and I enjoyed it but if they?re not in the sport that I?m involved in, then there can be very little chance of proper deals being done and me giving commission to two companies wouldn?t make any sense.”

Brazil 2013 – race edit (F1)

Highlights from the season finale.

Seb and Mark put helmets up for auction (Red Bull)

“Seb and Mark have each donated a helmet from the 2013 Formula One season to raise money for spinal cord injury charity ‘Wings for Life’ at a Bonhams Auction on 9th December.”

Nigel Bennett’s solutions for F1 and IndyCar (The Way It Is)

“The main problem with Formula One is that it’s just too expensive for all but about four teams. The rest of them are taking paying drivers who are less skilled than many others. There are some really good drivers like Hulkenberg and di Resta who may not have drives next year.”

The 50 Best Films Of 2013: #3 – Rush (Empire)

“Whether you are a Formula One aficionado or the furthest thing from a petrol head, this story of clashing egos and contrasting styles in the quest for the driver’s championship is a compelling portrayal of ambition, determination and going really fast in circles.”

Sebastian Vettel swearing at the Autosports Awards (YouTube)

http://youtu.be/Symx3LfehHk

Tweets

Comment of the day

@Maciek on the unpopular plan to impose two mandatory pit stops per race in 2014:

F1 might aspire to be the pinnacle of motorsport, but it sure ain?t the pinnacle of forward thinking.

You would think that with all that sheer mass of overpaid brainpower someone in there would pipe up and say: hey let?s stop trying to fix things by tacking on stop-gap solutions and look at root causes. You would think that. But no.

Seriously, if they applied this kind of problem solving to the cars, they?d be held together with duct tape and string.
@Maciek

From the forum

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Riise, Speed Damon, Colm and Rick!

If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

Roberto Mieres was born on this day in 1924. The Argentinian racer took a pair of fourth places for Maserati at the end of the 1954 season but was unable to improve on that in a full season with the works squad in 1955. He did not return to the world championship after that but did compete in sports car races in Buenos Aires.

Images ?? Ferrari/Ercole Colombo, Williams/LAT

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111 comments on Alonso “gave up a little bit” – Ecclestone

  1. cduk_mugello (@cduk_mugello) said on 3rd December 2013, 0:05

    Did anyone else see F1 questions on University Challenge tonight? It was name the asian grand prix track. Four of them. I got all of them within a second! Worth watching on iplayer, about 10 mins in!

  2. F1_WI (@f1_wi) said on 3rd December 2013, 0:10

    Outstanding COTD.

  3. Journeyer (@journeyer) said on 3rd December 2013, 0:10

    @maciek RE: COTD, at least the cars would be more unreliable. ;)

  4. Zain Siddiqui said on 3rd December 2013, 0:11

    Alonso “gave up”? Are you serious? That car is a DOG. He drove beyond the performance of the car on several occasions. Maybe towards the end of the season he lost his 2012 form, but that’s excusable; the gap to Red Bull was too big this season.

    • JamieFranklinF1 (@jamiefranklinf1) said on 3rd December 2013, 8:08

      I’m sorry, but there was no way that this year’s Ferrari was a ‘dog’. It may not have been the quickest by the end, but it was by no means bad, considering that they secured third in the Championship, and were one of the quickest, if not the quickest for a couple of races at the beginning of the year.

    • a4p (@a4p) said on 3rd December 2013, 10:03

      Bernie should stop playing the smartass like that, since we know very well that Pirelli messed up all the values on the field in May/June. That is also why Vettel dominance this year can’t be compared at all with the clean, well-deserved title that he won back in 2011.

      • mnmracer (@mnmracer) said on 3rd December 2013, 13:22

        Yeah, because it was not like he wasn’t leading the championship by a healthy margin before the tire change…

        • karter22 (@karter22) said on 4th December 2013, 11:25

          @mnmracer
          I agree, they did have a healthy gap before the tyre change but, if they did, why the moaning??? Did they know they had gotten lucky with that gap? Could they have gone all the way and win it if they had kept the same tyres through the season? These are things we will never know. We were robbed of a perfectly good season and all to make it easier for RBR. The tyre change was rubbish and not good for the image of the sport!

          • MattDS said on 4th December 2013, 14:49

            Sorry but that’s being ignorant. Pirelli had stated, a few weeks before, they did NOT want to change the tyres because they didn’t want to hand the championship to RBR.
            If anything this showed bias against RBR, not pro RBR.

            Why the moaning? Why don’t you ask all the moaners – RBR wasn’t quite alone in expressing being unhappy about the tyres. Other teams, drivers, fans, etc. We had team orders from race 2 because of fears for excessive tyre wear!

            And yes, you can bet RBR would have dominated. Maybe not to the extent they have done with the tyre change, but Vettel’s points scoring in the second half of 2013 compared to the first half matched the progress they had in 2012 (second half vs first half) exactly. They develop at an astounding rate and that was always going to put them in front.

    • TheBass (@) said on 3rd December 2013, 22:32

      Please. For most of the season, the Ferrari was a very good car, more consistent that the Mercedes and more reliable than the Red Bull. It had 4 weak races (Japan, India, Abu Dhabi and US) but at that point Alonso had the 2nd place in the WDC basically guaranteed.

    • I agree with Bernie that said but as always he was very good with his dog, I’m not sure how good he is with his ponys yet.

  5. Colossal Squid (@colossal-squid) said on 3rd December 2013, 0:16

    Alonso had an interesting season. I think it became completely clear that he doesn’t have the raw pace of Vettel or Hamilton in qualifying. There were a few races where it definitely looked like he wasn’t giving everything – Monaco and Korea stand out, as did his uncharacteristic error in Malaysia – but then again for the vast majority of races I think he was up there with the brilliant form he showed in 2012.

    I don’t think he was driver of the year, but Raikkonen, Hamilton, Webber and Button all had their ups and downs too. I think maybe after last year we expected Alonso to perform miracles again and realistically that was never going to happen.

    • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 3rd December 2013, 1:22

      @colossal-squid

      Alonso had an interesting season. I think it became completely clear that he doesn’t have the raw pace of Vettel or Hamilton in qualifying.

      Rosberg out-qualified Hamilton just as many times as Massa out-qualified Alonso this season (eight), and last year, Webber out-qualified Vettel no less than nine times.

      • Colossal Squid (@colossal-squid) said on 3rd December 2013, 1:47

        @kingshark They’re interesting numbers, and I guess they show how talented and quick Webber and Rosberg are. I believe them to be better qualifiers than Alonso as well. But being completely honest, would you truthfully say either driver is faster than Vettel or Hamilton over one lap overall?

        • obviously said on 3rd December 2013, 3:16

          @colossal-squid If you remember the Pole Position Champion statistic of few days ago from this very website, you will know that in 2005 and 2006 Alonso was the one with the most poles to his name.
          So it really boils down to a car. I know that people like to romanticize and forge myths around drivers with everyone having both their superhuman ability and Achille’s heel, but the truth is, it’s always down to car. Some drivers will find it easier to get a pole lap than keep that place during the race, but that is again more down to a car than to a driver. You can maybe drag a car to a pole by wringing a perfect lap out of it, or you can lose a good position because you don’t have a level of concentration over a whole race that some other driver has, but those are negligible. When you combine the fact that quali today is just a part of the race and that today’s cars are way too compromised with tires, engines, gearboxes, that it’s more down to a team’s philosophy, you can see that driver’s input is so irrelevant that all he can do is do the best with what he has over a whole quali-race combined effort.
          Even Massa used to be quite a qualifier but Alonso managed him easily over their 4 seasons together.
          You can also look at Mercedes this year. Their car was a monster in quali but crap in race. Imagine if Vettel was driving a Ferrari and Alonso was driving Red Bull. It would be completely different.

          So the conclusion is that while I do believe that drivers used to be able to pull something out of the hat back when quali was an event all on its own, I don’t think that the system we have in place for the last 10 years gives a real insight. The best you can do is just compare the teammates, but even then they may have different ideas about setup, where one simply works better in quali, while the other one is better for the race.

        • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 3rd December 2013, 7:33

          @colossal-squid
          This is the logic that you are using:

          1. When Hamilton or Vettel are out qualified, it is because Rosberg and Webber are very quick and talented

          2. When Massa out qualifies Alonso, it is because Alonso is a poor qualifier, and has nothing to do with Felipe’s speed and talents.

          Now that is a blatant double standard, don’t you think?

          • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 3rd December 2013, 7:35

            @colossal-squid
            Oh, by the way, I truly do believe that Massa is every bit as fast and talented as Webber and Rosberg are. Likewise, Alonso is every bit as fast and talented as Vettel and Hamilton are.

            However, I do not support your absurd logic where you already make the pre-assumption that both Red Bull and Mercedes have better drivers than Ferrari do, and build a conclusion from there onward.

          • PhilEReid (@philereid) said on 3rd December 2013, 7:43

            @kingshark I have to agree with @colossal-squid here. I think it’s relatively clear that Alonso isn’t as quick on a Saturday as either Hamilton or Vettel. However, I also don’t think he’s anything like as slow compared to those same guys that was shown this season.
            I do agree however, when Massa out qualified Alonso, for the most part, it was because Massa had the speed. He’s always been slightly quicker, though a hell of a lot more inconsistent. If they were both always at the top of their game, every Saturday, I’d so Massa would win the qualifying battle. However, it’s due to this inconsistency with Massa that you could draw the conclusion that when he does beat Alonso, it’s because Alonso has been relatively poor. Not to say that is actually the case though, and in general, it’s not due to Alonso being poor, just Massa being good (on occasion).

          • Colossal Squid (@colossal-squid) said on 3rd December 2013, 10:34

            @kingshark My logic is simply:
            1. Vettel and Hamilton have consistently over the past 6-7 seasons beaten their team-mates and shown several times that they have incredible one lap pace. Everybody gets beaten some days but over the course of a season Vettel and Hamilton have always outqualified their (very fast) team mates.

            2. Alonso has incredible speed in the race but isn’t a better qualifier than the two mentioned above. Massa too has a large amount of speed and talent but is in my opinion no longer to be considered as good as Webber and Rosberg due to his last four seasons. There is no double standard, just applying a subjective opinion on several driver’s performance to their qualifying results.

            However, I do not support your absurd logic where you already make the pre-assumption that both Red Bull and Mercedes have better drivers than Ferrari do, and build a conclusion from there onward.

            I don’t think it’s an unpopular opinion to say that Webber/Vettel and Hamilton/Rosberg have been a better pairing than Alonso/Massa. I didn’t pre-suppose anything. I’ve been watching how these drivers perform and my overall impression is that Massa has been weaker than Webber/Rosberg since 2010. The yearly Driver Rankings on this site would back me up.

          • Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 3rd December 2013, 12:42

            @colossal-squid

            Vettel and Hamilton have consistently over the past 6-7 seasons beaten their team-mates

            Hamilton was beaten by Button in 2011

            Massa too has a large amount of speed and talent but is in my opinion no longer to be considered as good as Webber and Rosberg due to his last four seasons.

            I’m pretty confident that Massa in qualifying and with a car capable of poles could give either Lewis or Vettel a good run for their money, i don’t know if you were watching the pre 2009 F1 when Ferrari used to have a car capable of pole, Felipe was faster than Shumacher & Kimi and even after the accident he was sometimes faster than Alonso, Felipe strength has been always qualifying, i don’t know how you’re claiming that he is slower than Webber and Rosberg
            Alonso during his career has partnered the fastest guys over one lap on the grid apart from Vettel, in 2003-2004 he partnered Trulli the master over one lap and he beat him 17-16, in 2007(Alonso’s worst season in F1) he partnered Lewis who is probably the quickest driver in F1 and he was beaten 10-7 in qualifying and in 4 years in Ferrari he smashed Massa
            In conclusion Alonso maybe has never been the quickest over one lap but he is just there with the best guys, i don’t know why people are insisting to criticize Alonso for not being the best in qualifying which is a skill required with other skills in F1,this is just like saying because Alonso is the best in getting off the line that will makes Hamilton or Vettel rubbish in the start…
            Rafa Nadal is weak in serving compared to Murray or Djokovic but no one can deny that he one of the best players in the history of tennis, same goes for Efren Reyes in pool who isn’t the best in breaking the balls but he is considered as one of the best player to ever held a cue ,Alonso is considered the best driver on the grid simply because he is good overhaul

          • Deej92 (@deej92) said on 3rd December 2013, 13:04

            @tifoso1989 I’m sure he was referring to Vettel and Hamilton consistently beating their team-mates in qualifying (which is completely true), so Button was beaten by Hamilton in 2011 in that regard.

          • Colossal Squid (@colossal-squid) said on 3rd December 2013, 13:25

            @tifoso1989 as @deej92 pointed out I’m referring to qualifying.

            I’ve been watching F1 far longer than Massa has been in the sport, and I agree that he was a fantastic driver between 2006-08. However, as stated in my comment Massa in my view is

            no longer to be considered as good as Webber and Rosberg due to his last four seasons.

            I am not considering Massa’s speed and qualifying pace pre 2010 in my evaluation of his qualifying performance.

            Pre-2010 Massa for many unfortunate reasons is not the Massa I’ve seen from 2010 onwards. He was a demon in qualifying and a sometimes flawed but generally excellent racer before his accident and Alonso joining him. Massa lost something substantial since Hungary 2009, and I believe all aspects of his craft suffered, including qualifying pace. He’s slowly improved since midway through 2012 but I think he doesn’t have the speed any more. 2008 spec Massa vs. 2013 Vettel in equal machinery over one lap would be awesome to see.

            I’m not saying Alonso is rubbish in quali – please point out where I did – In my original comment I merely pointed out that he doesn’t have the outright pace of Hamilton or Vettel in qualifying. That’s not to say he’s bad, just that in his impressive set of skills as a driver his qualifying is probably his weakest link.

          • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 3rd December 2013, 21:09

            @colossal-squid
            You do realize that Alonso’s qualifying record against Massa 2010-present is better than Vettel’s qualifying record against Webber? In the 77 race weekends, Vettel has been out qualified by Webber more often than Alonso has been out qualified by Massa.

            Now, you counter this by claiming that Massa today is not as good as Webber, but where is the evidence for that, may I ask? You use Massa’s lack of consistency as some sort of proof, but Webber has been every bit as inconsistent as Massa 2011-onward (only in 2010 was he somewhat consistent). I don’t see the any reason to believe that Webber over these past few years was any better than Massa was. Both had extremely fluctuating form.

            As for Rosberg, I agree that he is better than Massa, as he is indeed more consistent. But Webber? No chance.

          • TheBass (@) said on 3rd December 2013, 21:29

            Wait, are we saying now that Massa and Webber are equal? Seriously? I mean, I know, everything to make Alonso look better, but seriously?

          • @kingshark the logic is use is as follows: Vettel, Hamilton and Rosberg consistently improve in Q3 and consistently make little mistakes.

            Alonso quite often goes slower in Q3 and you can visibly see he makes more mistakes than the aforementioned drivers, although in fairness you have an argument for saying the car is more difficult as it doesn’t heat up the tyres as effectively (but then, that gives them a benefit in the races).

            Nonetheless, I’d always say Alonso’s strength is in the races and if given the option to pick from Vettel, Hamilton, Rosberg or Alonso for a season of qualifying laps – I wouldn’t take Alonso.

          • Colossal Squid (@colossal-squid) said on 3rd December 2013, 22:31

            @kingshark Ok, I firmly believe that Mark Webber has been a far better racer and qualifier than Massa has been since 2010, and therefore your analysis that as Massa and Webber are equal shows that Alonso is better in qualifying than I think, even though your supposition that Webber and Massa have been performing at similar levels is quite ridiculous to my mind.

            Look at the article on Mark Webber’s 10 best races. Four of them are since 2010. Can you show where Massa has performed anywhere near the level Webber has? I understand that we’re talking mainly about qualifying, but I think overall form can inform this discussion, and Massa’s overall form has been disappointing since 2010. Webber’s has also, but to my mind a lesser extent.

            For example look at this article from 2011: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/07/30/2011-hungarian-grand-prix-qualifying-analysis/

            The article comments on how unusual it was for Massa to beat his team mate. The reason?

            Having been fastest in the first two parts of qualifying, Fernando Alonso slumped to fifth in Q3. He wasn’t able to match his time from Q2, despite the track conditions improving.

            I think that article encapsulates everything about how I view Alonso and Massa as qualifiers: Massa’s form has been so poor since 2010 it’s notable that he beats Alonso, yet Alonso has several times struggled to bring out the best times possible from himself and the car.

          • TheBass (@) said on 3rd December 2013, 22:40

            @colossal-squid Even the media rankings have constantly put Webber leagues ahead of Massa for the past couple of years. Last year, IIRC, Autosport put Massa 12th while Webber 6th, Keith put Massa 14th for Webber 6th, La Gazzetta gave Webber a score of 7 and Massa a 4.5 and so on.

            It’s really one of the weirdest thing I’ve read, saying Webber an Massa are equal.

          • Colossal Squid (@colossal-squid) said on 3rd December 2013, 22:46

            @silence Yep I think it’s entirely uncontroversial to say that Webber’s been better than Massa over the past few seasons, in qualifying and the race. As you’ve shown, that’s definitely the common consensus.

          • TheBass (@) said on 3rd December 2013, 22:58

            @colossal-squid So it is. I must say, the whole discission seems a little bizarre to me, first for claiming that rating drivers (that very thing fans have been doing since F1 began) is a double standard and then asking for “evidence” that Webber and Massa are not equal when is both subjective and the common consensus.

            Weirdest discussion I’ve read here, especially because no no one has criticized Alonso; I’m sure we all agree he’s a fantastic driver.

          • Colossal Squid (@colossal-squid) said on 3rd December 2013, 22:59

            @kingshark Also you posted this on the forum about four days ago

            Man, I’m a big fan of Ferrari myself but Luca needs a reality check. Maybe he should have a look at Massa’s position in the championship over the last few seasons to get an idea of where Ferrari might have been without Alonso in the last four years.

            Ferrari have a world class driver and they need to keep it that way at all costs. God forbid, I cannot even envision Ferrari results from 2010-2013 with two Massa’s behind the wheel. Every one of those seasons would be worse than 2009.

            Alonso has really been Ferrari’s saving grace in the past couple of years.

            The emphasis added is my own. With that kind of criticism of Massa, exactly how bad do you think Webber is?

          • Colossal Squid (@colossal-squid) said on 3rd December 2013, 23:02

            @silence Well in the interests of full disclosure I’m a Ferrari fan and believe Alonso to be a great driver. However the guy isn’t perfect, he isn’t an almighty qualifier in my mind nor is he infallible or beyond reproach.

          • TheBass (@) said on 3rd December 2013, 23:08

            @colossal-squid That’s the truth. An excellent driver, but it’s far from unreasonable to say he’s *somewhat* weak over one lap, but there again, no driver is perfect. Hamilton seems a bit too emotional, Raikkonen too detached, and Vettel still has a couple of things to learn.

          • Colossal Squid (@colossal-squid) said on 3rd December 2013, 23:11

            @silence I agree entirely.

          • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 3rd December 2013, 23:40

            @colossal-squid

            exactly how bad do you think Webber is?

            - In 2010, Webber couldn’t win the championship with a reliable RB6.
            - In 2011, Webber finished behind Button in an RB7 and only beat Alonso by one point, who drove an F150.
            - He finished 6th in 2012 despite having overall the best car.
            - In 2013, he lost to Alonso in the championship despite driving an RB9, the same car in which his teammate won 13 races with, including 9 in a row.

            Does that answer your question?

            And no, I do not think that Webber would have done any better than Massa had he driven a Ferrari over the past few years, especially considering how much he spoiled the obvious potential of the Red Bull during those seasons.

          • Colossal Squid (@colossal-squid) said on 4th December 2013, 0:11

            @kingshark Everything you say is true. But you left out the fact that

            In 2010 Webber came very, very close to the WDC, and won four races.
            In 2011 he was nowhere near Vettel but was quite consistent, being on the podium 10 times. Alonso was brilliant that year, but I digress.
            In 2012 he took two great wins at Britain and Monaco, although he was disappointing overall and
            In 2013 he suffered from quite a bit of unreliability although he was nowhere near Vettel. He still ended up on the podium 8 times, and never finished below 7th which is at least very consistent.

            Now, Massa…
            In 2010 he was denied a win in Germany and took six podiums, but he was well off the Championship battle and failed to score points in four races.
            In 2011 he never finished higher than fifth even though Alonso finished in the top four 14 times, with 10 podiums and one win.
            In 2012 by the summer break Massa had scored 15% of Alonso’s points total. Keith Collantine ranked him 22nd in the half term analysis. It was only his few good races in Italy, Japan and Brazil that saved him further embarrassment.
            In 2013 he spun or crashed at least once a weekend from Monaco to Germany, failed to get on the podium bar Spain and Ferrari sacked him.

            If you gave me a choice I’d have swapped Webber for Massa at Ferrari any time over the last four seasons. Even when Webber couldn’t win he was often on the podium or right behind his team-mate. Massa rarely finished one position back from Alonso.

          • Kingshark (@kingshark) said on 4th December 2013, 1:38

            @colossal-squid

            In 2010 Webber came very, very close to the WDC, and won four races.

            With a car that took 15 pole positions, was by far the fastest car overall throughout 2010, and did not have the reliability woes that Vettel’s car did?

            In 2011 he was nowhere near Vettel but was quite consistent, being on the podium 10 times. Alonso was brilliant that year, but I digress.

            10 podiums with a car in which his teammate took 11 wins in isn’t something to brag about. If anything, it is something to be embarrassed about for any F1 drivers’ standards.

            In 2012 he took two great wins at Britain and Monaco, although he was disappointing overall.

            Disappointing would be a weak term to use for anyone who finishes a mere 6th in the championship with a car in which his teammate won the title with.

            In 2013 he suffered from quite a bit of unreliability although he was nowhere near Vettel. He still ended up on the podium 8 times, and never finished below 7th which is at least very consistent.

            Yes, he was consistent. Consistently slower than Vettel.

            In 2010 he was denied a win in Germany and took six podiums, but he was well off the Championship battle and failed to score points in four races.
            In 2011 he never finished higher than fifth even though Alonso finished in the top four 14 times, with 10 podiums and one win.
            In 2013 he spun or crashed at least once a weekend from Monaco to Germany, failed to get on the podium bar Spain and Ferrari sacked him.

            Maybe because he drove cars significantly slower than Webber during those seasons? Webber only did slightly better against Vettel than Massa did against Alonso in those years.

            In 2012 by the summer break Massa had scored 15% of Alonso’s points total. Keith Collantine ranked him 22nd in the half term analysis. It was only his few good races in Italy, Japan and Brazil that saved him further embarrassment.

            Massa was bad in the first half of the season, no doubt, but he was brilliant in the second half of the season. Post-summer break, Massa scored more points than anyone else bar Alonso and Vettel, this includes Button and Webber (who both drove better cars than he did).

            Webber was great in the first half of 2012, but fell asleep after Silverstone. Massa was sleeping until Hungary, but then woke up come to Belgium and had a great 2nd half of the year.

            I see no significant difference, all in all.

          • Nathan (@il-ferrarista) said on 4th December 2013, 2:53

            @philereid; ALonso’s cars have been geared for the race in most his career. But from 2005 to 07 he got quite a number of poles. I mean, the number that Tifoso1989 put up; Alonsos quali stats vs quali-master Trulli tells you everything you need to know. 17-16 in ALonsos favor after two seasons together.

            Even that 10-7 vs Hamilton in 07 isn’t a bad statistic either. Bridgestone tires were a bit alien to Alonso, and he jumped in a completely new car and team in 07. Hamilton did test the MP4-21 on Bridgestones quite a lot during the winter prior to the season.

          • Colossal Squid (@colossal-squid) said on 4th December 2013, 12:34

            @kingshark So brilliant for Massa is two podiums and a 4th? I’m not defending Mark Webber, he didn’t deliver the goods to be considered near Vettel/Hamilton/Alonso’s level, but even still I think that 40 podiums, 7 wins and 12 poles, even in the car as he’s had is better than Massa’s return in the same time period.

            If Massa and Webber are truly equal, then how do you explain the gulf between them in the annual driver rankings on this site since 2010? Or on other sites? Are you the only one who is right and the common consensus is wrong? Why when people were calling for Massa to be fired from 2011 onwards was there not the same backlash against Webber, who you contend was equally as poor? You write off his abysmal 2011 and ’13 seasons as being the fault of the car even though Alonso was doing leagues better? Alonso isn’t supernatural, the chasm in performance cannot be explained by Alonso’s excellence alone.

            How did Massa and Webber perform equally in 2010 and 2011 to your mind? Webber lost the WDC by 14 points to Vettel, Massa was 108 behind Alonso in the same season and you claim their performances equal? Read the 2011 driver rankings: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/12/12/2011-f1-driver-rankings-part-156/ Are Keith and the commenters of this site wrong? Did Massa deserve to be 6th, or Webber 14th?

      • magon4 (@magon4) said on 3rd December 2013, 13:14

        That’s not true, the Vettel x Webber one.

  6. Roald (@roald) said on 3rd December 2013, 0:23

    If anyone else had a season like Alonso’s in that Ferrari, no one would possibly say he “gave up”. He’s just such a good racer people come to expect miracles from him. There was just no way anyone was ever going to beat Vettel this year.

  7. Nick (@npf1) said on 3rd December 2013, 0:33

    Flavio’s looking ever more skinnier.. Meanwhile, good to see Giancarlo Minardi. Sometimes I wonder if we’ll ever see any Lotus-esque resurrections of Tyrrell, Minardi or Brabham (which someone already tried, even).

  8. Scottie (@scottie) said on 3rd December 2013, 0:42

    Vettel talking about Niki Louda? lol

  9. Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 3rd December 2013, 0:44

    I’m a big supporter of him and of Ferrari

    No you are not !!!! I have to agree with Luca, Ecclestone is continuously coming up with jokes as he gets older, we all remember the big support he had for Alonso and Ferrari last year after 2012 Brazilian GP even if Ferrari’s decision to challenge Vettel yellow flag situation was questionable he should have left it to the FIA, I don’t know why he has to be so hypocrite ?

    I don’t know whether the team is not competitive because of him or because the people who are running the team aren’t getting the job done,

    We don’t need your assessment of Ferrari situation because it is irrelevant, what is obvious is that he is trying to disturb the Ferrari environment maybe because they are the team that they get the maximum amount of money out of his pocket

    • Yappy said on 3rd December 2013, 2:28

      What yellow flag😉. In any case Bernies support was behind the Marshalls’ making the correct call. It is their job to make sure the rules are followed and not to play favorites.

      • Yappy said on 3rd December 2013, 2:41

        Bernie may support Ferrari and Alonso and want them to win. But he can’t change the rules to suit Ferrari, give them additional points or change the results to suit them. So all he is left with is his words for support.

      • Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 3rd December 2013, 10:28

        @Yappy
        After Ferrari has challenged Vettel move on Vergne which looked under yellow flag, Bernie started to bash Ferrari for their decision

    • tenstep said on 3rd December 2013, 2:41

      That decision was so questionable it should never have happened. Multiple team bosses after the race including Ross Brawn stated that they were wet weather flags. I think it was clear to everyone in the know except for Ferrari

      • MattDS said on 3rd December 2013, 9:51

        Wet weather flags? Are you referring to the red/yellow lights when he made the pass on Kobayashi? Because that wasn’t why Ferrari asked for “clarification” – it was for the pass on the straight on Vergne.
        And there were waved yellows. What some failed to notice though was the green flag being waved on the straight, after which Vettel made the pass. It was raised by some fans on various Youtube channels, and Ferrari only asked for the clarification when most had acknowledged there was a green flag.

        Or are you talking about his pass on Kobayashi? Those were red+yellow flags

      • Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 3rd December 2013, 10:33

        You clearly missed the point, i said that the decision was questionable, i’m talking about Bernie’s hypocrisy when he said that he support Ferrari & Alonso but in fact we know very well how much support he has for Vettel (personal friend) and Red Bull, if he was so fair why he was so talkative about Ferrari and was absolutely silent on the Mercedes TestGate ? If Ferrari’s decision was questionable how about Mercedes clearly breaking the rules ?

    • hzh (@hzh00) said on 3rd December 2013, 4:46

      And what a conclusion:

      “I thought he gave up a little bit which is proof that he was looking for another team.”

      Yesterday the delivery guy was late; I think he must have given up a little, which is a proof he is looking for a job at another restaurant.

      • Fsoud (@udm7) said on 3rd December 2013, 9:34

        Actually, RB confirmed that he asked them for Webber’s vacancy for 2014. McLaren too had some exchange with him for 2015, though it is “rumoured”.
        If I was him, I’d have been chasing an better seat too. Ferrari and Alonso are consistently finishing high up, but always behind Red Bull. For Ferrari, its not an excuse.
        Lotus did a better job this season but Kovaleinen, Raikkonen’s loss of form, RoGro’s early season spontaneity and the loss of James Allison did them. They could have taken 3rd, even 2nd this season.

        • Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 3rd December 2013, 10:46

          @udm7

          Actually, RB confirmed that he asked them for Webber’s vacancy for 2014. McLaren too had some exchange with him for 2015, though it is “rumoured”.

          I don’t know from where you get your informations but i can ensure to you that they are completely false
          Christian Horner said that he will not rule out the possibility of signing Fernando Alonso because he has to consider all the options, on the other hand Martin Whitmarsh said if Fernando Alonso is available he would sign him without hesitation but he denied that McLaren had any exchange with him

          • petebaldwin (@petebaldwin) said on 3rd December 2013, 12:05

            How can you ensure us that they are completly false? Because you like Ferrari and you say so?

            There’s no smoke without fire and I would imagine that Alonso is getting restless having to constantly battle to get the 4th fastest car on the grid into positions it shouldn’t be capable of finishing in.

            If Alonso drove the Mercedes or Lotus this year, I think he would have got closer to Vettel.

          • danclapp (@danclapp) said on 3rd December 2013, 12:24

            @petebaldwin

            You got to be joking 4th fastest i put money onit if we went through the races Ferrari were faster than Merc in race pace, you guys forget the first 4 races, also look at races like Spa, Monza, Usa(yes Alo was behind Hulk, Korea all races Ferrarri were quick so please dont assume Alonso could drag that Merc werever. Merc were coming into their own at Silverstone, if tyres dint get changed its more chance of Ham winning than Alo.

          • Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 3rd December 2013, 12:53

            @petebaldwin

            How can you ensure us that they are completly false? Because you like Ferrari and you say so?

            I was just reporting what was said by 2 team principles, if you have a better opinion than CH or MW on this subject you can shared with us
            Alonso will never drive for Red Bull with Vettel, CH & Marko in the team, Vettel who is a close friend with Kimi was pushing for Dan as teammate how about Alonso, the Mclaren rumor is bit real because Honda were ready to pay half the salary of Fernando if Mclaren will succeed to sign him
            It is not that some teams are interested in FA that implies that he want to leave Ferrari

          • TheBass (@) said on 3rd December 2013, 17:35

            @tifoso1989 You are too old to let you fanaticism (of a f1 team, among all things) cloud your judgement in such a way. Not even childs react like that, it’s almost sad.

            You sure really take your time and think a bit more carefully before posting.

          • Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 3rd December 2013, 18:06

            @silence
            As long as i respect people on this forum i’m free to express my opinion the way i want, “I don’t have to be what you want me to be, i’m free to be what i want” after all i did also post some facts to prove my point of view
            To be honest and fair play i accepted the first part of your comment as a criticism after all we all have different view to the sport,team and driver that we support and how we support but i did never accepted the second part in which you seem to give me lessons in ethics

          • TheBass (@) said on 3rd December 2013, 18:50

            Sweet Jesus…

          • It is not that some teams are interested in FA that implies that he want to leave Ferrari

            Seems to be what you think.
            But CH said somewhere later on that Alonso offered his services for 2014. His manager was spotted with him after all.
            And, yes, MW is chasing Alonso, not the other way round.

    • Nick (@nick-uk) said on 3rd December 2013, 19:19

      “I thought he gave up a little bit which is proof that he was looking for another team.”

      I think you are guilty, that’s proof you made an illegal bribe.

      ~Bernie Ecclestone Logic.

  10. obviously said on 3rd December 2013, 0:50

    Where’s Ron Dennis on that Alonso’s photo? :)
    Lolz, just trolling. :)

  11. crr917 (@crr917) said on 3rd December 2013, 1:56

    A sensitive youtuber? Or just a “fan” of Vettel :D

  12. HoHum (@hohum) said on 3rd December 2013, 3:01

    Nigel Bennet has some interesting ideas and in general I agree with him although his tyre ideas may be a little too effective and radical to ever be contemplated seriously by the powers that be, sure would make for interesting racing though, kind of explains why I like the racing at the Goodwood Revival better than modern racing.

  13. Yosi (@yoshif8tures) said on 3rd December 2013, 3:35

    I think the FIA knows what must be done yet will never act, thus driving formula 1 into an irrelevancy and boredom. I’m not holding my breath for next season.

  14. bull mello (@bullmello) said on 3rd December 2013, 4:57

    Ross Brawn’s next job? Just guessing…
    - In F1 competitively:
    McLaren to oversee the transition to Honda power, maybe as team principal after a possible lackluster start to the 2014 season. (He did say next summer for next job considerations. You know, about the time the shift to next season’s car starts.)
    Honda to oversee transition with McLaren and to expand Honda user base in F1 to other teams. Maybe he already has a job offer from Honda.
    Ferrari, maybe for 2015 to replace Domenicali if 2014 is not productive for Ferrari.
    Williams, it would be fantastic to see him take on such a challenge and turn this team around.
    - In F1, but not competitively:
    Management position in FIA, possibly something in the regulations department, hopefully. Would rather see him in the actual racing, but the FIA is sorely in need of somebody who can shape the regs into something resembling the real world of racing designed to be sensible, logical and practical for fair competition going forward. Lord knows they need some direction as evidenced by their latest balderdash proposal.

    Just some ideas, hope to see Brawn back after some well deserved time off.

  15. If Vettel is to be portrayed in a movie by Hollywood, ever, he should be played by Matt Damon.
    And of course Fernando gave up, he is intelligent, it was a lost race and there was nothing in his car that said pole or wins.

    • Yappy said on 3rd December 2013, 5:17

      😂 When Vettel retires Matt Damon will be almost 60.

    • Jack (@jackisthestig) said on 3rd December 2013, 9:04

      Hollywood would have to work it’s way through a fair few F1 stories more worthy of being made into a film than anything involving Sebastian.

      While we’re on the subject, if a film is ever made with an actor playing Ayrton Senna, it would have to be Adam Brody (he played Seth in The OC). He is the spitting image of Senna, and a good actor to boot.

    • Fsoud (@udm7) said on 3rd December 2013, 9:44

      The Ferrari was pretty good for them in the first 6 or 7 races. But Alonso made a small error in Malaysia, the car had DRS problems in Bahrain, A piece of bodywork lodged itself in F138 which made its aero suck and he was way too down the grid in Canada.
      Alo-Ferrari might have thrown away 2 wins atleast, but it wouldnt mean much for the championship.

    • Oskar (@oskar) said on 3rd December 2013, 10:09

      and Hugh Jachman as Mark Webber.

    • bull mello (@bullmello) said on 3rd December 2013, 16:40

      Justin Bieber. He has the hair.

      Dear Vettel fans,
      Just Kidding, Just Kidding! I can’t help it that Bieber looks a bit like he could be Vettels wimpy little brother.

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