Some teams opposed double points – Ecclestone

F1 Fanatic Round-up

Stefano Domenicali, Bernie Ecclestone, Korea, 2010In the round-up: Bernie Ecclestone says some Formula One teams opposed the plan to award double points for the last race of 2014

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Heard on the Pitch (The Wall Street Journal)

“‘The people that were against it were some of the teams,’ said Ecclestone adding that the critics ‘don’t know why it’s a bad idea. They have no idea why.'”

Engine builder Hart passes away (F1)

“Brian Hart, the engineer whose eponymous company built Formula One engines for the likes of Toleman, Jordan and Minardi amongst others, has died at the age of 77 following an illness.”

Schumacher’s condition remains critical (Reuters)

“‘The clinical state of Michael Schumacher is stable as he’s under permanent care and treatment,’ Grenoble hospital said in a statement on Monday. ‘However, the medical team in charge stresses that it continues to assess his situation as critical.'”

Webber fears for Australian talents

“It’s just so expensive now to get out of Australia and to prove yourself. It’s always been tough, but now it’s very, very difficult, as we’re finding with Mitch and those guys.”

Tweets and pictures

https://twitter.com/RaceTechmag/status/420163504516386816

Two legends having a chat at my pit garage in 94... Great guy Brian Hart .. RIP my friend

Rubens Barrichello: “Two legends having a chat at my pit garage in ’94… Great guy Brian Hart.. RIP my friend.”

Comment of the day

Chris draws an interesting comparison between F1 and football:

People will watch a 90 minute football match with three goals and rave about how great the game was.

Yet the same people will watch a 90 minute race with three overtakes and say it’s boring.

At what point between watching the two sports does the mindset change?
Chris (@Ukphillie)

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108 comments on Some teams opposed double points – Ecclestone

  1. James (@jaymz) said on 7th January 2014, 6:29

    Or is it stable but critical. Or stable and critical at the same time.

    • Maksutov (@maksutov) said on 7th January 2014, 7:04

      Stable but critical makes more sense from sound of things, but I believe it means: he isn’t gonna die right now but he also isn’t out of the danger zone. There are quite a few things that can go wrong from here on…

      • pH (@ph) said on 7th January 2014, 7:42

        My friend, a few years younger than Schumi, had a ruptured vein in his brain almost two years ago. It happened right in front of a hospital. His body recovered rather quickly and it is fine now, but his brain is gone. The same scenario is very likely for Schumi, we will not really know anything until he “wakes up”. One can always hope for a miracle.

  2. I think it’s time for Bernie to let F1 go. He’s done a lot for the sport, but it’s time to pass it on to someone younger. No matter how smart or nice someone is, in the end, age will do its own thing. At that age, people start to believe in outrageous ideas.

  3. andae23 (@andae23) said on 7th January 2014, 9:42

    the critics ‘don’t know why it’s a bad idea. They have no idea why.’

    I honestly feel insulted. Ecclestone really thinks Formula 1 is his property and that he can do with it whatever he wants.

    • Force Maikel (@force-maikel) said on 7th January 2014, 10:52

      @andae23 I have the same feeling here, as if we are unable to form an objective opinion on the matter. Ecclestone has gone too far – again! I’m so fed up with the arrogance, the corruption and the pure ignorance in the way he is leading F1, can’t he see he is destroying the sport with all these gimmicks?

      His motive in that Wall Street Journal article is very clear, money! He lost some cash when Vettel took the title with 3 races left and he wants to fill that gap. First he takes a nice bonus from the abu dhabi race promotors and now he hopes this system will keep his pockets well filled.

      I know the man has done a lot of good for this sport but surely his time has come? We all need to stand up and say: Away with Bernie! Time for a young, fresh face on the scene!

      • But is it Bernie who defines the rules?

        • Force Maikel (@force-maikel) said on 7th January 2014, 14:16

          @datt So are you saying the double points idea didn’t come from Bernie even though he admitted it in the news article? And that he didn’t pressurize the strategy group in voting in favour of his idea because supposedly all the organizers had demanded from him that a season should last until the last race, while now those organisers say they never suggested such a ridiculous thing?

          I know the rules are defined by the FIA but I’m now very sure every gimmick has to pass Bernie’s judgement first, if he didn’t come up with it in the first place. Bernie has become a liar and a cheat possessed by making money, time for some new ******* management I say!

          (I moderated myself to spare the people here some work)

          • Calm down.
            Bernie didn’t like small capacity turbo-engines either. In the end it was the FIA who passed those rules for sure.

  4. Barney said on 7th January 2014, 12:04

    O RLY?!? Oh wooooow… I WONDER WHYYYY?? Maybe because the rule is truly ABSURD!!!

    I mean what’s so special about the last race? It still has the same number of laps, the circuit is not longer than 5km (overall), this awful rule is not fair at all! Think if McLaren (EXAMPLE1) had lead advantage, but both cars retire and MERCEDES (EXAMPLE 2) wins the last race with double points and they win the championships! What does the last race have so special? Nothing: no tougher conditions than the usual, not a longer track, not many more laps! Therefore this is not fair! Instead of thinking of such absurd rules, maybe Bernie should focus on having more exciting, REAL overtakes and have more equal cars between the top teams so we can actually have a good show until the last race!!!!!

  5. SirCoolbeans (@sircoolbeans) said on 7th January 2014, 12:05

    RE: Comment of the day

    As a game designer I always highly praise football for it’s design. It’s simple but the key element is the value of a goal being so incredibly high. A goal can happen at any point in the 90 minutes, yet it rarely does happen, but one single goal (point) can decide the outcome of the game. This leads to upsets, the favourites don’t always win. A single goal can be fluked and bundled over the goal-line and defended for the rest of the game. It’s value is so high. This helps make the game exciting.

    When you compare tennis to football a point is scored every few seconds. The value of a point is much less (you can’t win a game of tennis by scoring one point). An underdog tennis player can fluke a point from time to time but he’d need to fluke around 50 points to cause an upset. Therefore in tennis the favourite almost always wins. People can see this as boring.

    In F1 we can say an overtake is similar to a goal in football or a point in tennis. The value of an overtake decreases as you go down the grid. An overtake for the lead has much more value than an overtake for 12th place. We had a lot of overtaking last year, but it was seen as a boring year because the highest value overtake rarely happened (the overtake for the lead). We had mainly lower value overtakes (closer to tennis than football).

    F1 has qualifying rules which put the fastest car at the front of the race from the start. Which means we don’t really see (or expect to see – which is a key point) an overtake for the lead. So we make overtaking easier, which nudges F1 into the tennis area and away from the high value football area. We see more low value overtakes. While the low value overtakes happen the guy with the fastest car at the front of the race drives away on the perfect racing line and is never seen again. Meaning we don’t see the highest value overtake and crucially we already know it won’t happen during the rest of the race, whereas in football that high value goal can happen at any given time in the 90 minutes, even if 89 minutes of the game has been dominated by someone else.

    F1 is my favourite sport, but football is beautifully designed.

    What makes me laugh is when the F1 rule makers stupidly attempt to recreate the feel of football. Which can be seen in the double points rule for the last race of the season. They’re trying to recreate the situation in football when a team dominate for 89 minutes only to have the opposition score with the last kick of the game. The problem is they’ve created a rule which always makes it easier the score in the last minute of the game. The excitement is that it MIGHT happen, not that it will.

    The football rule makers are so slow to change rules because they try to protect the purity of the game. You’d never see football increase the value of a goal to be worth two goals in the 90th minute. It’s stupidity.

  6. Garns (@) said on 7th January 2014, 12:37

    @SirCoolbeans
    I think most of us agree that the double points rule is a joke, and hopefully over rulled before season start.

    You make a good point in soccer where a team can snatch a win in the 90th minute, but correct me if I am wrong (Not a soccer or football follower) but in world cup qualifying doesn’t a team get one point for a home goal and 2 for an away goal?? I am not sure if this is an old rule maybe??

    Anyway this rule gives long term ‘proper’ F1 fans a kick in the guts- “We have changed 2014 regulations completely to make F1 better……………………… and if Seb wins again double points in the last race for the ‘also rans’ “.

    I think while the concept of the rule is not only bad enough, the timing is to suggest F1 rulers even 2nd guess their own changes even worse!!

  7. Unless Bernie has (another) hidden agenda he must be finally losing it if refuses to acknowledge the arguments against the double points. On the other hand his own arguments for the rule are – at best – completely silly: The double points making the teams go; “let’s see about this” (as in all the teams but the leading team!) is just wonderful. So wonderful in fact that you can just imagine all the parents laughing around the dinner table if one of the them told the story of his/her 5-year old inventing the idea.

    Thank you for (at at least a lot of) what you have done for F1, Bernie. Now it is time to let go.

    Let’s just hope that Michael comes back with a much clearer mind than this ultra arrogant old man.

  8. Carl (@turbo-era) said on 7th January 2014, 13:31

    Can you Imagine if Bernie run the FA…

    Football boots would be made to ware out every 20 to 30 mins, and players would have to leave the pitch to change them ensuring the field was regularly shook-up

    Balls would be designed to explode at a random point, at which time 20 new balls would be thrown onto the pitch for immediate simultaneous use until 19 of them went out of play to ensure lots of goals

    And goals would be designed to increase in size a the game went on to make sure the excitement lasted until the end of the game

    That would surely make every1 in the world want to tune in every weekend wouldn’t it!

  9. Robbie said on 7th January 2014, 14:18

    Yeah I too don’t quite get the COTD, or would like to hear an expansion on the point being made. The question is at what point does the viewers mindset change? And it is the same viewer…not like we are talking a football fan vs. an F1 fan. So to me the mindsets are entirely different from the get go.

    Football hasn’t really changed in how long, not to mention it doesn’t require equipment that can color the driver, or the team. And the rules don’t keep changing from year to year, including technical regs that have recently been added to promote passing.

    I have always been fine with passing being rare and special in F1. DRS harms that greatly. So when a comparison is made between football and F1, 3 goals vs. 3 passes, my first question is…was it 3 passes for the lead with 2 laps to go, without using DRS, and with the rest of the field close at hand to capitalize on any mistakes the first and second driver might make? Or was it 3 DRS passes near the start of the race that set the order for the next 90 minutes? Big difference. I’m sure the quality of goals in football can vary too…some being more spectacular, some being more fluky, but overall they get added up and the outcome is determined. F1 can have it’s best passes in a race not even be for many points nor the win, but can be talked about for decades when spectacular enough and obviously not done using DRS. Also, a car leading all day can still have fans on the edge of their seat wondering if it will remain problem free.

    And how is a football game rated if, when all is said and done the game winning goal was scored in the first few minutes, vs. in the last few. Sure fans still had 90 minutes of football in which each minute carried the potential for a goal, so diehard fans might say each game was equally exciting, but I would hazard a guess that if we went to forums post-game there would be a strong contingent that would call the game that had one goal in the first few minutes less exciting than the game decided in the last few.

  10. SauberS1 (@saubers1) said on 7th January 2014, 21:56

    I also don’t like this idea.

  11. William (@william) said on 8th January 2014, 12:25

    I prefer if there were two races on a weekend instead of double points for one race. I will always like it for the Australia, Monaco, Austria and Brazil GPs if they were two races on the weekend just like the V8s in Australia.

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