“Hamilton is the fastest driver” – Stewart

F1 Fanatic Round-up

Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes, Yas Marina, 2013In the round-up: Jackie Stewart names Lewis Hamilton as the top driver in F1 in terms of raw speed.

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Your daily digest of F1 news, views, features and more.

Lewis Hamilton can dethrone Sebastian Vettel (Daily Star)

“I think Lewis is the fastest driver in Formula One. He has sheer speed. When he puts in a quick one, he is the master.”

Formula One double points plan ‘will happen for sure’ this year says Ecclestone (Autoweek)

“Ecclestone says the source of the confusion is that he has put the plan up for discussion at the next Strategy Group meeting because he wants to extend it to apply to the last three races. The teams objected to this at the previous meeting so it was scaled back to just the finale. It didn’t deter Ecclestone and he says ‘I have got it on the agenda for the next meeting. I want to start three races again.’”

Williams: long-term stability secured (Autosport)

Claire Williams: “We have stability with our driver line-up, which we are excited about. And the senior management team at board level is also stable and that will remain stable into the longer term as well.”

IWC backs Charles Darwin Foundation’s Galapagos conservation work (FT)

“Eco-friendly projects are proving more popular targets for the largesse of watch brands, many of which are looking to temper their sponsorship of activities such as Formula One, Moto GP and powerboat racing with enterprises that appear more ecologically sound.”

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Comment of the day

More thoughts on whether a budget cap is realistic:

Teams have suppliers and they pay their suppliers a fee. That fee appears on their books, but the actual cost to the supplier doesn’t.

If you use Red Bull as an example (and I’m not picking on them, you could use anyone, including Caterham for this, I just happen to know the name of the Red Bull entities I want to use as an example): Red Bull Racing is the F1 team subject to the budget cap. They source a number of things from Red Bull Technologies, a separate company managed at arms length from the F1 team, though both are ultimately owned by the same deep pocketed individual. If Red Bull Racing pays Red Bull Technologies a fee of say $1 million for developing an aspect of their car, the fee of $1 million appears on their books. But if the development of that part cost Red Bull Technologies $10 million, there is a $9 million cost to Red Bull which doesn’t appear on their books.

In some jurisdictions you are forced to submit joint financial statements for a group of companies, so all this expenditure would all show up, in others, you aren’t, so it won’t. Trying to pick which set of rules the teams pick, and then agreeing on a number will be nigh on impossible. An F1 budget cap is needed, but it won’t happen. Not until the team’s hands are forced when we have lost two or three more teams.
@GeeMac

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On this day in F1

And happy birthday to Norberto Fontana who is 39 today.

The Argentinian driver, who won the German Formula Three championship in 1995, made four starts for Sauber during the 1997 season, substituting for Gianni Morbidelli. The last of these became notorious as the lapped Fontana badly delayed championship contender Jacques Villeneuve having allowed his rival Michael Schumacher past with conspicuous ease.

Several years later Fontana claimed he’d been instructed by Ferrari team principal Jean Todt to aid Schumacher’s cause, as Sauber used Petronas-badged Ferrari powerplants. Former F1 driver Martin Brundle in his first year as a commentator saw through the rather transparent move at the time:

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211 comments on “Hamilton is the fastest driver” – Stewart

  1. Guy (@sudd) said on 20th January 2014, 4:33

    I agree with Sir Jackie Stewart.

    Vettel- fast, but does not perform well under pressure. Not a scrapper, but if the team provides him a good car, and manages every aspect of the race, he will ace the race.

    Hamilton- Fast and a scrapper. Knows how to beat his opponents in dog fight. But also prone to commit careless mistakes. Also really good at boosting team moral because he delivers when the team calls on him to put down the hammer. He has done it with McL and with Merc.

    Alonso- Fast, but lags a little in quali. Amazingly electric on Sundays from the moment the lights go out. Kind of similar to Vettel in that he needs things tailored to his liking. Seems very calculative, but at times looks like he does not like to take risks. Kind of plays it safe.

    Kimi- Fast, but very sensitive. We all know about his powering steering feel saga. That must of drove the engineers at Lotus mad! Doesn’t really energize the camp. And that’s a huge setback because those are the guys building his car and they need that motivation to keep chipping away for more speed.

    • David-A (@david-a) said on 20th January 2014, 4:49

      @sudd -

      Vettel- fast, but does not perform well under pressure.

      What does this actually mean?

      Pressure from other cars in a race? Won the German GP chased by faster Lotuses all the way, won in Japan with a crucial and efficent pass on Grosjean that hos teammate could do on faster tyres.

      Pressure in a championship situation (IMO where the pressure is at its greatest)? Fought from dead last, despite a malfunctioning radio and rear bodywork damage in the wet to get enough points for the title (2012). Put in his most faultless weekend of the year when older, more experienced rivals couldn’t keep it together (2010).

      • David-A (@david-a) said on 20th January 2014, 4:53

        Kind of similar to Vettel in that he needs things tailored to his liking. Seems very calculative, but at times looks like he does not like to take risks.

        Regards to needing “tailoring”, Alonso seems a podium machine (13/20 in 2012), so like Vettel (maybe even more) he uses his experience to perform well in any situation. He also gains so many places at race starts, where drivers have the highest risk of a collision. In addition, races like Valencia 2012 make me disagree also.

      • David-A (@david-a) said on 20th January 2014, 4:57

        My bad:
        *his teammate *couldn’t do on faster tyres.

      • Guy (@sudd) said on 20th January 2014, 5:22

        You really think the Lotus had a chance in Germany? He was just toying with them. Vettel has so much in the bag on Sundays. There are only a handful of heroic drives from Vettel. His wins are so generic that he could win 5 titles in a row and no one would care. He’s won 4 in a row but no one really cares except for his fans. We admit winning four titles is no small feat, but when you’re consistently winning by 10-30 sec margins, its beyond driver talent at that point.

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 20th January 2014, 5:46

          @sudd

          You really think the Lotus had a chance in Germany? He was just toying with them.

          And you base this on what exactly? The way Boullier said the team missed the chance to win there? The way Lotus split strategies at the end, to possibly leapfrog SV near the end? Conveniently attempting to sweep it under the carpet so next time you can talk about who can’t handle “pressure”?

          There are only a handful of heroic drives from Vettel. His wins are so generic that he could win 5 titles in a row and no one would care. He’s won 4 in a row but no one really cares except for his fans.

          The idea of a “heroic” drive is far too subjective to base sweeping statements like that. If you described a “heroic” drive you’ve seen, I could easily brush it aside as you’d do if I described one from Vettel to you.

          Sure, there’re problems with F1, but they’re mostly related to artificial factors such as DRS/Pirelli/double points. If “no-one cares except for his fans”, then why do some even bother to look forward to a possible change in the pecking order through new regs?

          • Guy (@sudd) said on 20th January 2014, 5:58

            Because Vettel doesn’t have Heroic drives. Pointing out 3 examples over 4 championship seasons only proves I’m right. Vettel races for 5 laps, then its management time after that. If the team feels the car is ok they will let him push a little. If they feel a certain of the car is not up to the task, they will dial it back significantly. Red Bull is very good at that. They will let you close in until you reach a margin they are comfortable with. Once you’ve reached that margin, it looks like you just hit a wall and can’t go any further. You could be catching them at 1-2 seconds a lap, then suddenly you find yourself 3 seconds behind them and can’t make anymore ground on them. Thats what happened in Germany. Of course Boulier feels they had a chance at winning. What team principal is going to devalue his teams efforts?

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 20th January 2014, 6:42

            @sudd

            Pointing out 3 examples over 4 championship seasons only proves I’m right.

            Far from it. Listing them all would be a waste of time, as all you would do is dig for excuses as to why they’re not considered “heroic” in your book, as you’re already doing.

            You could be catching them at 1-2 seconds a lap, then suddenly you find yourself 3 seconds behind them and can’t make anymore ground on them. Thats what happened in Germany.

            Odd that they would plan for both of them to close within DRS range, especially Grosjean who remained there for an entire stint after the safety car period. Again, you’re just making assumptions and claiming it as fact. That is not the case here.

        • @sudd
          I’m 90% confident that Grosjean would have won in Germany if not for a badly timed (from his point of view) safety car. His strategy was set for taking one less stop than the other contenders (Kimi had also pitted too early for this) but the SC neutralised his advantage of a long first stint.

          There has been times where Vettel manages a 3-6 second lead when he could win by more, but this was clearly not one of them (two cars hounding him in DRS range). I’ll leave others to debate the other points ;)

      • Guy (@sudd) said on 20th January 2014, 5:27

        He got lucky in Brazil. It was a miracle he survive that. Has nothing to do with his skills. Lucky car was not terminally damage. Lucky incident happened at Interlagos because it is not a high downforce track. And lucky it was actually a wet race because mechanical grip is more useful than aero at that point. Had that happened at a faster track, he would have been in trouble. We see cars race all the time with small bits of aero broken off or flapping around without too much performance loss. Now if a front wing falls off its a different story.

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 20th January 2014, 5:57

          @sidd -
          Exactly as I said in my other post, any “heroic” drive can be brushed aside by someone with enough negative bi as. This time it’s the “he just got lucky” routine.

          As for surviving damage, you’ve missed the point entirely. It’s not about whether he could survive an incident. It’s about fighting in circumstances such that there was a championship on the line.

          And the rest of your post makes little to no sense (e.g. “it is not a high downforce track”, then “Had that happened at a faster track”, so what, a low downforce, fast track is also a slow, high downforce track?). Of course, damage to the rear of the car is of no disadvantage to the car’s speed. Riiiiiight.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 20th January 2014, 5:57

            @sudd , I meant.

          • Guy (@sudd) said on 20th January 2014, 6:09

            Like I said David, four seasons! You’ve got Interlagos, that pass around Alonso in Monza, and Abu Dhabi( which technically doesn’t could because he pretty much race a totally different car from the one he qualified with). You can cling on to these handful of moments. Come see me when Vettel actually has to work for his titles.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 20th January 2014, 6:24

            @sudd -
            To me, all you’re doing is looking not to give any credit where it’s due. Now you’re even saying he didn’t work for his titles, when 2 of them he had to push until the final round? Laughable.

            Your earlier post slating the Brazil drive was nonsensical, your last one equally so.

          • Yappy said on 20th January 2014, 6:35

            Heroic drives? Vettel a few, Button had a good one in Canada a few years back, Alonso, not for many years, Hamilton no. Webber, we wished.

          • Guy (@sudd) said on 20th January 2014, 6:43

            David, you think Vettel is great, I think he’s good but nothing special. Lets just agree to disagree. I don’t he has to work hard enough for his titles. He has four titles, no one can ever take that away from. But if he keeps winning in the same fashion, people will question even more how good he really is. And thats what I’m doing right now after four titles. I’m not saying he isn’t talented, I’m saying he still hasn’t proven himself. He flat out said he didn’t want Kimi as a teammate. His main rival for four years has been a washed up Webber. Look at the recent champions prior to Vettel. They all had to fight closely matched teammates as well as rivals. Alonso, Kimi, Hamilton, all fought. Then, Button lucked out with Brawn GP. After that we had the Vettel era thanks to Newey. Vettel never had a closely matched rival or teammate. Sure, Alonso, and Hamilton came close a couple times. But, I would argue they were close due to circumstances, not because they were competitive. They were riding the wave and it was only a matter of time before RB breaks them.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 20th January 2014, 7:03

            @sudd
            I’d agree to disagree if only you weren’t so liberal with the facts:

            He flat out said he didn’t want Kimi as a teammate.

            When?

            And stuff like that only calls into question your other points, e.g. “winning in the same fashion”. So the titles Hamilton, Alonso and Raikkonen won were hard earned, but 2010 & 2012 weren’t? That combined with words like “thanks to Newey”, or “he got lucky”, just shoot down any hope you have of legitimately asking “how good is Vettel?”, without looking like you would NEVER be satisfied that he has “proven himself”.

          • Sam (@ardenflo) said on 20th January 2014, 7:41

            Yappy, what about Germany? Coming back from a DT to win it from his teammate, a now four times world champion, with 10 seconds?

            I’m not saying it is a ‘heroic’ drive, just asking your opinion.

          • Karthikeyan (@ridiculous) said on 20th January 2014, 9:48

            If ‘good’ gets 4 championships and ‘special’ gets only one I will take the good one. Special can sit out again

        • Sam (@ardenflo) said on 20th January 2014, 7:47

          Heikki was quite the trouble for Hamilton. And so was Barrichello for Button. Seriously?

          All people do here is using the same arguements for the better for their favourite and find excuses for those very same arguements for the worse on the other drivers.

          e.g.:

          “Vettel had a bad teammate and no pressure, blabla undeserved title, wins it in last race by 3 points, blabla.”

          “Hamilton had a very tough teammate and a lot of pressure, deserved title, wins in it in last race by 1 point, blabla.”

          They both had something going on they could not influence and both won the title that year. And surely Webber is twice the driver Heikki is.

          One day, people will look back on Vettel and say he truely is one of the better drivers of this era. Hamilton is up there but nowhere near Vettel and Alonso if you ask me.

        • craig-o (@craig-o) said on 20th January 2014, 8:44

          So what does downforce have to do with it? Sort of contradicting yourself there…

        • Rockie (@rockie) said on 20th January 2014, 13:39

          Vettel did not get lucky in Brazil, he explained it thus, when I got spun around I dumped the clutch and selected neutral and rolled the car back steering as well to give other drivers a chance of avoiding me. Which you can see if you watch the onboard footage.
          Coulthard said he wished he could have thought like that when he was racing!

          • matt90 (@matt90) said on 20th January 2014, 19:49

            Plus, much as it pains me to say, whether he got lucky surviving the accident or not (I would say he was lucky that the initial damage wasn’t terminal, but managed to avoid being hit again thanks largely to his own actions), the point is that from that moment on he drove exactly like he needed.

    • Yappy said on 20th January 2014, 5:42

      Vettel is really bad under pressure. It has caused him to lose the championship, wait no it hasn’t. That’s odd. In fact he has won 4 in a row. But he is not as good as 5 WDC Alonso when it comes to pressure. What’s that, 2 WDC Alonso who lost 3 championships by basically 1 position. In 3 seasons he only really had to do 1 more overtake in just 1 race to win the WDC in that season.

  2. synapseza (@synapseza) said on 20th January 2014, 4:49

    I agree with Bernie about double points. It is a great idea and we should have it all the races! :)

  3. pxcmerc (@pcxmerc) said on 20th January 2014, 5:37

    It’s almost impossible to tell who is the fastest driver because no two teams have the same potential, and almost every team chooses who to spend more time and energy on. And most often this has to do with sponsorship and money.

    I think Lewis is pretty fast, but maybe not that much faster than everyone else, but, I do think hes faster than Vettel, cause that RBR car was whole seconds faster than any other car and it’s performance potential was impossible for any other team to meet.

    I do hope Red Bull just annihilates Ferrari in 2014, and gives the FIA the finger :) cause they keep trying to gimp the tires and change the rules to help the other teams compete. But I wouldn’t mind seeing Vettel actually have to try, because when something comes to easy, you start acting like a tart, and I think Vettel needs a challenge, because it will help keep/make him more honest.

    I think Mercedes doing the deed would be the best balance, Ferrari not winning it means the rules change failed them again, and Red Bull not winning all the time means its something different. Nico is still undervalued though, I think hes better than Alonso, and I think when Lewis is in the right place hes pretty hard to catch, hopefully things stay cool in that garage, and Merc nail the reliability factor.

  4. James (@jaymz) said on 20th January 2014, 6:18

    I really don’t think we can choose willy nilly who is the fastest. One thing we can compare is Alonso and Hamilton because they had the same car in 07 and both of them ended up with equal points so they are probably equally as fast.

    Given the same car over 1 lap all these top guys would be within thousandth of a second apart, and that type of time difference would be more to do with subtle changes in track temperature or whatever.

    Even through a full season in different cars sometimes all it comes down to is half a point! Ok not on many occasions, but more so it has come down to 1 point. Even sometimes it’s judged on a ‘what if’, and a what if is nothing!

    These cars aren’t magic, they have a finite limit which these guys can reach.

    I think we can safely say that Hamilton is just as fast as the others.

    Kimi is still my favourite though!

    • craig-o (@craig-o) said on 20th January 2014, 8:47

      @jaymz only issue with comparing Alonso and Hamilton is it was 7 years ago now. It’s safe to say both have improved as drivers and as people. Hamilton is now at the age where he should be hitting his peak and Alonso might just be passed that (he didn’t have an amazing ’13 but I doubt he’s going backwards). Vettel scarily still has time to improve further.

      One thing we can confirm though is Rosberg on his day is pretty damn good! Likewise with Grosjean and Hulkenberg.

      • James (@jaymz) said on 20th January 2014, 14:10

        @ http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/members/craig-o/

        I’m not sure about this hitting peaks stuff. It seems like another invisible excuse whereas 07 was real. I think a more realistic thing to use is commitment, e.g Webber in 13 for the most part, over all, lost his commitment to the team, to the risks he was willing to take on track, to how close to the limit he was willing to take it. Also another e.g is every number 2 driver ever!

        Are we saying Webber hit his peak in 2010 and by 2013 he was already burnt out? Or was his peak before that and if he were in a better car that he would have won a world championship against Alonso or Kimi? I don’t think so. I think these drivers hit their peak very quickly, and I mean very quickly as in after a few races, maybe even a few old school testing sessions. There are so many things that happen during a season that are beyond a drivers control and we seem to pick and choose what we remember which is pretty pointless unless we break down exactly what happened to each driver, be it engine failures, enforced errors, traffic, whatever. Think I’ve only noticed someone doing this once ever, but be damn sure every F1 team does it with drivers down to a crazy level.

        And what do we say, oh I think so and so the best because he did quite well in a car that wasn’t as fast the fastest car.

        I do the same myself. I’m of the mind that Vettel is not the fastest, most complete I don’t think matters if he is or not, I do not think he is in the top 5.

        I do think Kimi is the fastest. Those days battling the empire that was Shumacher and Ferrari, with the favoritism and all the decisions that went Ferrari’s way, the support Shumacher had from Barrichelo, the inferior car that Kimi had, I’ll never forget Kimi’s speed. Then there was Lotus which I do think he lost commitment with which he can’t be blamed for.

        But I’m most likely totally wrong even though it’s all arguable.

  5. BasCB (@bascb) said on 20th January 2014, 7:04

    Sigh, even more than constantly hearing about how the tyres (or DRS, or KERS, or new engines) are ruining F1, the debate about “who is fastest” is one that derails immediately into a yes/no kind of exchange of opinions.

    Funny really, when what JYS mentions is probably as much reflecting the wish for someone to finally beat Vettel, because it gets tedious when the same driver/team keep winning. I do agree that Hamilton is one of the guys who has the speed and skill to beat Vettel in qualifying (if given the right car for it), and if their car is up to it this year, he could well be the one bringing in the results. We have seen Rosberg almost as quick, but especially in qualifying he has had more moments where he just misses out by making some kind of mistake when the car is on it.
    But even if Vettel this year would not even be in the running for regular poles and wins (because of the car), that would not bring us nearer to seeing “who is the best”, and even less so would it help build consensus on that point!

    • andae23 (@andae23) said on 20th January 2014, 8:02

      [...] the debate about “who is fastest” is one that derails immediately into a yes/no kind of exchange of opinions.

      @bascb That’s the fate of discussing on the internet I’m afraid. It’s quite remarkable how many people think they know more about this subject than Jackie Stewart.

    • Rockie (@rockie) said on 20th January 2014, 13:45

      “But even if Vettel this year would not even be in the running for regular poles and wins (because of the car), that would not bring us nearer to seeing “who is the best”, and even less so would it help build consensus on that point!”

      This would be very interesting when it happens would really like to see what those who have been saying its because he has the fastest car, maybe same would be said for the winning driver as well!

  6. andae23 (@andae23) said on 20th January 2014, 7:41

    @sigman1998 Happy birthday! :)

  7. Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys) said on 20th January 2014, 8:20

    As unpopular as the idea of double-points races are, if they have to stay, more is probably better than just one round, as it will blunt the effect.

    That said, I wonder if a tennis model would not be more appropriate – rather than having events at the end of the year that are worth more, there could be three or four races, like Monaco, that could be the Formula 1 equivalent of a Grand Slam, and be worth double points.

    • matt90 (@matt90) said on 20th January 2014, 19:57

      It makes sense for a Grand Slam because they aren’t just more special, they are actually tougher- more sets (for men) and more competitors (for everybody, plus I don’t know if there are any more or less qualifying rounds for low ranked players too besides the main draw). No race should be double points without good reason, and the only one I can think of is double distance, or just run to a 3.5 or 4 hour limit.

  8. obviously said on 20th January 2014, 8:23

    Does anyone else get a feeling, after reading Ecclestone article, that at this point, it isn’t that much about the rule, as it is about just doing it for the sake of ******* off fans and showing us that he can take a **** on us and we’ll be still watching and asking for more.

    I mean, he sounds as if he is completely aware that teams and fans hate the rule pretty much 100%, but he is still trying to push it through just to show them and us that he can screw with us any way he wants.

    Ecclestone should look more into nurturing the die hard fans that some sports would die for, instead of abusing our dedication.

    • Bullfrog (@bullfrog) said on 20th January 2014, 9:18

      Does the other bloke from CVC have to sign off a rule change now Bernie’s no longer a director – or is that just certain commercial contracts?

      I’ll wait and see what comes out of the meeting. There are plenty of ideas about for rule changes, good and bad, that haven’t made it beyond speculation.

  9. rsp123 (@rsp123) said on 20th January 2014, 8:45

    One way to solve the budget cap problem of teams hiding spending off the books would be to introduce a claiming rule. Teams can spend what they like, but all teams would have the right to buy another team’s car for a pre-determined fee – say 50 million. Thus if one car wins by a minute, another team could buy that car and copy the technology. The new car might then be bought by another team, etc, and any big technical advantage would only be gained for one or two races. Suddenly drivers, tactics, and set-up would be king.

  10. Jason said on 20th January 2014, 8:51

    Hope Merc dominates F1 for the next couple years.

    That will ensure Lewis is joined by Vettel as team mate, settling this matter on who’s better between the two.

  11. Alex Brown (@splittimes) said on 20th January 2014, 9:15

    “Martin, you are a cynical chap! Lap 31!” This sport needs more Murrays and less Todts.

  12. GeeMac (@geemac) said on 20th January 2014, 10:01

    Nice to see my musings about the budget cap got a COTD. :)

  13. kpcart said on 20th January 2014, 13:08

    Stewart is right when he says “When he puts in a quick one, he is the master” – BUT that is only for one lap, and as he says ‘when’ he puts it in. there is always Vettel consistently putting in a fast one, and over a whole race distance too, every race weekend, and with better care for his tyres.
    for Hamilton to ever be champion again, he needs tyres that don’t require much driver control, ie bridgestone grooved control tyres in 07-08. I don’t see that happening this year with the likely torque curve the turbo engines will give – he will require traction control.
    Alonso is the more likely to take the throne from Vettel.

  14. I know it’s not going to happen, but I would love to see Ham, Alo and Vet in a rally car on special stages of Rally Monte Carlo or Rally Sweden, like R.Kubica!

  15. antonyob (@antonyob) said on 20th January 2014, 17:39

    I don’t think there is any doubt that Lewis is the fastest on a given lap. I also think he’s a lot more like Senna than perhaps even he thinks but Senna was driving in an era where raw pace was the decisive factor. now tactical acumen is at least as important, and in this, Vettel is the master. In fact he’s so good, sometimes he makes it look easy, so it’s dismissed a bit. Fact is the quickest guy hasn’t been winning F1 for a while but the quickest guy in the head has.

    • Juzh (@juzh) said on 20th January 2014, 23:35

      @antonyob
      “I don’t think there is any doubt that Lewis is the fastest on a given lap”

      There is.
      Anyone can be quick once in a season.

    • Guy (@sudd) said on 21st January 2014, 3:32

      One, the role of “tactical acumen,” and mental intelligence in F1 is a myth. That’s just my opinion of course. Two, its offensive. I see it all the time in sports. It’s nothing more than stereotypes. The black athletes are labeled as “athletic,” or “naturally gifted” the Latin athlete is hot tempered because you know…that latin blood. And of course, the European uses his brain, smart, intelligent, calculative….blah blah blah. DRIVERS ARE PAID TO DRIVE! That’s it! If the team hired them for their mental aptitude, they would most likely be engineers. Drivers act instinctively. Look how quick engineers are to try and download feedback from drivers as soon as possible. All of the cerebral stuff is done by the brain trust of engineers, strategists, and team principals behind the pit wall. And the super computers of course. The nice thing about watching motogp is these stereotypes don’t really work. All the top riders are from Spain or Italy. Stoner was great of course.

      • antonyob (@antonyob) said on 21st January 2014, 10:18

        It is your opinion, and I think you’re quite wrong. I remember Vettel watching something happen on a screen whilst driving and changing his tactic. Jensen also regularly makes the call. For the record I think Alonso… A stereotype hothead, in your book, is tactically excellent. I find your remarks offensive to be honest. I think Lewis is more ‘Latin’ in temperament than most. I dislike the way you have shoehorned a long forgotten stereotype about people from different nations into a reasonable debate. I have no issue with someone using ‘Latin temperament’ …what you are saying is something quite different and quite uncalled for.

        • Guy (@sudd) said on 22nd January 2014, 1:33

          Wow! Vettel saw something on TV and adjusted. What a genius! Please! If you think Button is making brilliant calls rather than gambling on weather, there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. These stereotypes are alive and well. They are not forgotten. Maybe you overlook them because they favor you, I don’t know. Look at Senna and Prost, and that was not a long time ago. Go back and look at the labels that were attached to them. BTW, there is no such thing as a Latin temperament, its an unfair generalization of a massive group of people. I’m not saying everyone was guilty of it, but it happened and it still happens today. BTW, I did not stereotype Alonso as a hothead, that’s you. I’m saying people of Latin decent get stereotyped as hot headed or feisty…whatever you want to call. Very offensive stuff. I’ve heard them said about Checo, and Maldonado when he was getting hammered for his accidents. Even Hamilton gets a little of it too. He hangs out with a few people from a sector of the “Entertainment” industry that are not part of the status quo and suddenly people say he’s trying to be a hip-hop thug, rapper, etc. BTW, this is not a reasonable debate. Its sports talk! Its conversations were people pick a horse and say X is better than Y without any quantifiable proof. And they don’t have to. It would be like asking a person of faith to prove why we should all follow the teachings of Jesus, Buddha, Mohamed etc.

          • David-A (@david-a) said on 11th February 2014, 15:18

            Its conversations were people pick a horse and say X is better than Y without any quantifiable proof.

            Isn’t that what you did for most of this comment thread?

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