Daniel Ricciardo, Red Bull, Jerez, 2014

Red Bull ‘should solve problems by Bahrain’ – Horner

2014 F1 seasonPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Daniel Ricciardo, Red Bull, Jerez, 2014Red Bull expect to have their cooling problems solved in time for the second test of the year at Bahrain.

The world champions ended their participation in the four-day Jerez test at lunch time on Friday after completing just 21 laps.

“It’s been a very difficult test,” said team principal Christian Horner. “We have had numerous Renault issues as well as chassis cooling issues, which have affected our progress.”

“However, despite the lack of mileage, what we have managed to learn shows that the problems should be solvable for the next test in Bahrain.”

“Part of the purpose of this early test was to learn about any issues ahead of the start of the season and there will now be a lot of focus on the dyno over the next few weeks.”

Daniel Ricciardo’s run on Friday was curtailed by another technical problem, according to race engineering co-ordinator Andy Damerum.

“We did seven laps and every time Daniel went out we made improvements to the control of the engine. We were also making fixes to the issues that have arisen from our side and we have made progress there.

“However, we then discovered a mechanical issue with the car and after investigation it became clear we would not be able to fix this in time to run in the afternoon, so the decision was taken to retire early, take the data we have amassed and work towards the next test in Bahrain.

“Two weeks is a long time in Formula One and we and I?m sure Renault will work flat out now to solve the problems we?ve been having.”

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43 comments on “Red Bull ‘should solve problems by Bahrain’ – Horner”

  1. Two weeks is a long time in Formula One and we and I’m sure Renault will work flat out now to solve the problems we’ve been having

    As for me i’m not sure !!! Call me a conspiracy theorist but i have strong doubts that Renault is doing this deliberately !!! On paper their power-train is the most sophisticated one on the grid, it costs around 24 million euro, the Mercedes costs around 18 million and the Ferrari is the cheapest one something around 16 million
    I have 2 explanations for this situation :
    1- Renault did exploit their success in the V8 era and raised the price of their engines to maximize the profit without increasing the quality
    2- Renault is doing this to obtain the special agreement of the FIA to modify the engines under the cover of reliability issues so it can evolve in the engine freeze regime just like in V8 era

    1. @tifoso1989

      More expensive =/= more sophisticated.

    2. @tifoso1989

      So Renault deliberatly chose to give a bad impression? That’s not the point of being in Formula One as an engine supplier, they want to give an image of quality.

      And nobody knows how much the engines costs. I’ve heard this rumours too about Renault engines being the more expensive but Renault said that their price is for the engines and the aid they offer for the teams while the prices heard for Mercedes and Ferrari only give an idea of the price of the engine and not of the aid that is supplied to the team, which is priced afterwards. The three engines cost more or less the same.

      1. If it gives them more time (that other’s won’t have) to work on the engine, then strategically it makes sense.

        Image will sorted when they dominate throughout the year.

        1. These are completely new engines, they need data from testing to work on them. It makes no sense to pretend to be doing badly.

          Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but there’s no engine freeze right now is there? At least not as strict as it was during the V8 engine freeze.

      2. Then why are they in it…who goes out and buys a Renault because they are in f1? Any f1 fan worth their salt will not be driving a Renault as their motor

    3. If the costs are correct I suspect the difference in price is due to the fact the Renault is the only engine provider without a works entry. In the case of Ferrari and Mercedes they would have to develop an engine regardless of whether they had any customers, so any customer teams only need to cover the unit cost plus a contribution to the development and that manufacturer benefits. In the case of Renault they are only supplying customer teams and therefore they need customers to cover the entire budget for development and production.

      1. Renault is the only engine provider without a works entry

        I may be completely wrong, but I thought Lotus were Renault. They just changed the team name, but it is still Renault.

        1. I was under the impression that this year red bull where the “works” Renault team.

        2. they used to be, but Red Bull took over that role, i think it was last year.

        3. Renault pulled out and stayed only as an engine supplier. Perhaps it’s better to think of it as team Enstone. Renault pulled out, Genii Capital came in, but it’s still Enstone. The latest news is that Genii has sold a minority share in the team to a Russian company called Yota Devices Company.

      2. Doesn’t make much sense. An engine supplier without a team has less outlay (no team to and car to pay for) & total development cost can be spread over all customers, so the engine should cost less to purchase

        1. Theoretically, you are right, but in reality, a true works team will subsidise the cost of the engines for any customer team.
          Renault is in a complicated situation as they pulled out of F1 as a team owner, because of the cost, but now are running a quasi works team, RBR. So in reality they have only reduced their cost, but having to develop brand new engines alters the cost saving argument, as their investment has shot up astronomically. The engines are also more expensive to manufacture, as they now have more complex components, despite the fact they’ve dropped 2 cylinders.
          The precision and quality control required to manufacture parts that spin at say 100,000 rpm is very high such that they become very very expensive. We even have only 5engines being supplied to the teams, but they will be far more expensive than the previous 8 engines.
          When you then factor in R&D cost, you are looking skywards in terms of cost. Forget even about the high recharge – discharge capacity energy storage sytems, thats for another day.
          Lets hope Renault have been able to solve their vibrating crankshafts else, it will wreck them financially.

          1. Last time I heard Red Bull where firmly in control of Red Bull Racing.
            Renault are supplying the same number of teams as Mercedes (4) so a total of 40 race engines for 2014. Honda in 2015 will be supplying (as of the time of writing) 10 race engines. If it Renault spends £200 million developing their 2014 engine, that amounts to £5 million per engine. If Honda spend £200 million on their 2015 engine, that’s a huge £20 Million per engine, even if that was development cost plus build cost on top, then Honda have to subsidise the engines to McLaren and then pay McLaren sponsorship too as they are the title sponsor. Sounds expensive to me and way more expensive than what Renault’s costs will be spread over 4 teams.

    4. Then let’s make it double conspiracy theory :D and ask ourselves: did Lotus knew any of this and deliberately stayed home & save money?

      1. I believe Renault had probably told their teams of some of the engine problems but hoping they’d have come close to solving them by the first tests.
        Renualt was pretty confident that several teams would miss these tests just conducted. And in reality, can we really say Redbull attended, because 21 laps of which over 55% would have been in and out laps and breaking down, I also wonder if they included, being hauled back by a truck, as completed laps.
        The only thing RBR will learn is that their car gets very hot, something Lotus can also anticipate when they conduct their own test and possibly come with 2 or 3 different cooling arangements.

    5. @tifoso1989 that’s not a conspiracy theory, that’s just a ridiculous comment.

      Why would Renault, the creators of the F1 turbo, the legends of the V10 era and the total winners of the V8 era make an engine that’s overpriced, overcomplicated and rubbish?

      1. @fer-no65
        to maximize the benefit my friend “c’est l’occasion ou jamais !!!”,they have the lowest budget and the highest price

    6. 1- Renault did exploit their success in the V8 era and raised the price of their engines to maximize the profit without increasing the quality

      I read somewhere that Renault had the lowest budget for their powertrain R&D. How anyone knows is beyond me, but if you have the lowest budget but the highest cost, then something fishy is going on. Moreover, how much money was spent on R&D by Ferrari and Merc if Renault truly did have the lowest budget, which we know from Prost being I believe $200m-250m?

      1. Nothing fishy is going on. The engines cost money to develop, Renault cannot afford to be benevolent. The head of Renault, Carlos Ghosn, once considered pulling out entirely becuase of exhorbitant costs.
        Mercedes and Ferrari and possibly Honda, can afford to spend upwards of $300million on their engines or more. Renault doesn’t have that luxury.

    7. Nathan (@il-ferrarista)
      31st January 2014, 16:13

      Where do you get these numbers from (ie engine price), Tifoso1989 ?

      1. @il-ferrarista
        I remember reading that in Autosprint last year

    8. The latter has crossed my mind but i cannot think that the ebgine production of the renault is that much expensive if anything they must have declared their taxes closer to reality renault f1 operation is focused in marketing and to be viable they need to shave some of the investment and manufacturing costs by charging a greater percentage of their engines as prost said at monaco last year renault is not charging the full price of a 2014 unit. As far as I can tell renault is in the same spot they have been since the 3.0 v10 which is behind all their major opponents still they found ways of winning, don’t forget it wasn’t so far ago when redbull regretted moving the ferrari to toro rosso who eventually beat them or even as recent as 2011 when redbull tried to get mercedes.

    9. Why on earth would they first bork their engine only to get permission to improve it?

      1. Because it will gives them an advantage over their rivals when it comes to engine freeze,remember in the V8 era the V8 Renault was crap at the beginning Torro Rosso used to beat RBR with an old chassis but then it became the most sophisticated engine with the clever engine mapping, do you still remember the cause behind the EBD ?? it was reliability purposes

  2. So great F1 car designers can get it wrong as well. It is not just a Renault problem as at the time of writing Caterham has done 54 laps today and clearly have solved some of their problems

  3. Hope rules will stay the same this year and we don’t get a season similar to last one when RB moaned about tyres and Pirelli prompted changed them to suit RB cars.

    1. The fact that some people still think this just goes to show how unbelievably stupid they are. it’s not even worth the effort of countering their ‘argument’ anymore.

      1. The fact that remaining people still think that some people can have their own opinion make them even more stupid. Believably, this time.

        1. It’s one thing to have an opinion, but quite another to spew contemptible garbage as if it was ‘fact’.

    2. I’m pretty sure exploding tyres during silverstone gp was the main factor

    3. David not Coulthard (@)
      31st January 2014, 14:41

      …just like most of the rules have been made for Jackie Stewart without thinking about Jacky Ickx……

    4. @palmerstoneroad
      The tyres didn’t change because Red Bull moaned about them.
      They were changed because the teams agreed that the tyres was too dangerous.

    5. It was a coincidence. Too bad it happened, but a conincidence.

    6. The tyres were incredibly safe in 2013 @palmerstoneroad , you’re right! No need to change them!

  4. How did Caterham running on the same Renault engines .. manage so many laps ?

    1. The magic of that beautiful amphibious landing-craft nose?

    2. Caterham are also running one of the biggest sidepods and cooling arrangement of the entire 2014 cars. Inspite of that, they issues with the power unit still persisted. I must also add that, they were also limiting engine revs to far below levels other teams had limited theirs to.

  5. Normally I don’t like to see anyone struggle, but…

    Hope they don’t fix it fully and they’re average all season. Would be nice to see a McFerrcedes battle and equally nice to see Vettel in an average car.

    1. So you prefer to see McLaren and Ferrari winning because the RB car is unreliable? If I was you, I would find it more pleasing if McLaren and Ferrari win races because they built a fast car.

  6. “The Red Bull RB2 promised to be a very good car from its looks but quickly suffered overheating problems in the first tests. This initial design problem took some time to solve and hampered car development compared to the other teams. “… sounds oddly familiar. A bit of Deja Vu for Red Bull?

    1. Let’s not write them off yet. I’m confident they will not ‘do a McLaren’ :P

  7. It will be very difficult.

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